The Otomatch User Applicant Statistics Survey is up on the main Otomatch page.
This survey is for MS4's both matched and unmatched.

You can also reach it by following this URL
Otomatch Top 3 Rank Survey results are now available on the main Otomatch website.
Submitted Responses: 160
Additional analysis and comments to be added over the next few weeks.
The top row is locked for use by the moderators for announcements. To start a new topic insert a new row above the second row. To comment on a topic add < before your comments or use the columns to the side.
How do we restore deleted rows? Sorry dumb questions < File → version history → see version history → make a copy of the old version you want → paste rows back in.
Closing this one up. Thanks for a good year eveyone.
The new otomatch spreadsheet for 2020-2021 is now up. The link is in the cell to the right.
This sheet will remain open until 4-3-20. Shortly after that it will be locked and archived. ---sam
As we put this spread sheet to bed, I would just like to say thank you to Sam and to everyone else. I met many of you on my interviews and you were all wonderful people that I am very excited to call collegues and fellow Otolaryngologist. +2
I wanted to let everyone know that I went back to February on the Applicant Stats tab and have updated the Step 1 scores according to those values. It looks like someone had organized the Step 1 scores column in numerical order and they were not properly associated with the correct usernames. I believe I have corrected it and it seems to make more sense now.
What are some places where you had an amazing away experience? need a last minute recommendation. want to stay in academics but get great training << Michigan +1I thought that Michigan as a program really placed on effort on away rotators learning experiences and trying to get them facetime with attendings. At the end of the rotation there was an entire afternoon dedicated to simulations for the medical students that the residents put on > Didn't match here, but I loved Henry Ford < Recommend against Henry Ford. Really hard to get face time with chair or PD and therefore get a letter from them in support of your ERAS app. There are better away rotations out there< UMich. Didn't match there but holy cow did I get to operate and work with some amazing people < vandy 100% < I loved Vandy and learned a ton but don't go there if your sole reason is to get a letter cause there are so many rotators - it's possible but just less likely to get a killer letter from there. Go there is you want a great Oto experience > I disagree with Vandy - the residents were amazing but I felt that the attendings (with a few exceptions) took very little interest in me as a student because they have so many rotators and students are of such variable quality > Miami was such a great experience seeing so many cases and working with different attendings multiple times each. Compared to other aways, I felt like I contributed a ton and was an integral part of the team for the month. > Had a similarly great experience at USC and U Penn. Lots of OR participation in both. < Vandy, ppl were just incredibly nice and welcoming. plus i loved nashville > disagree with vandy as well - attendings generally took little interest with most rotaters (as was majority of opinion of the rotaters during my month) < Vandy < SHO < Rutgers < DukeHonestly, a tip I wish I had when I applied for aways was that many of these places known as being great (and in most cases are awesome places) are often so well known that there are tons of away rotators and it actually diminishes the experience in many ways (seeing cooler cases, getting more 1v1 time with attendings). I would definitely put this into account when choosing and try to find a a place with a good balance of being a good away place with having an ideal number of away rotators. I know a few places with 8+ rotators a month which is a bit too much and often results in less meaningful letters/experiences + much lower chance of future interview since theres so many candidates.
Did anyone write a short bio for their VSAS application? i didn't. i feel like that stuff is in the PS and rest of the application +1 < No bio, got all the aways I wanted + 1
Anyone have insight on how residents have been affected as far as case numbers are concerned given the cancellation of elective surgeries across the country for at least the next couple of months? obviously they've been affected< I'm not really sure what kind of answer you're looking for. At almost every program, all elective surgeries have been cancelled. The only ones still going are going to be urgent/emergent cases because at several places, the OR's are going to be turned into an ICU room with only a few to spare for said emergencies. No one knows how long this will last but at least for the next 2 months, there will be minimal OR activity. Even for those cases, majority of programs are limiting the people involved in the case to either just an attending or if two surgeons are required, a senior resident. We don't know the degree of impact that this will have and how residents will make up for it - maybe places will start doing surgeries on the weekend to catch up; it is a serious financial hit that hospitals are taking from not having ORs running and so for both the residents and the attendings, they want to get OR's moving as quickly as can safely be done.
Thank you for doing this Sam! Good luck!!!!!you're welcome. stay safe and healthy! be courageous, competent and compassionate, especially if you are taking are of me or my family in the next few months. ---sam
Do you think your step score ended up being important < For getting interviews yes. For matching no. < not as important as i thought it would be. I am under the impression it was truly more about meeting a threshold than how high the score was over that threshold. for reference I scored a 245 and this closed no doors at top programs. < +2 Not for matching < Step score got your application looked at and the rest of your application netted you the interview imo < Exactly. Need a threshold score to get in the door, then interview is interview > Yes...I did a research year and had 10+ pubs, great letters, was told I interviewed really well but out of 89 programs I only got 6 interviews and didn't match, most likely bc of a step 1 score in the 220s < step 1 in 230s, no step 2, got 30+ interviews, matched. Suspect cutoff is in the 230s<did you have another degree or come from a school with a very strong ent program? I think that step score is only one part of your app but I think you are probably the exception to have gotten as many interviees as you did based off of that step score Moderators, is there any way of recovering the actual Step 1 Scores of the applicant stats page? It seems as though someone purposefully changed the Step 1 scores.< if you know the date it happened, you can go back into the version history, but this is VERY slow. it ends up hanging most of the time. this is why people should submit their info the the official survey linked on the main otomatch page. ---sam < I went back to February and tracked down what I believe are the original scores. I have updated them according to the scores in Feburary that were listed.
Out of curiosity, any unmatched ENT spots this year? Graduating PGY5 and haven't been looking at otomatch much and was curious how things have changed over the years < 2 historically DO program spots. Otherwise no unfilled, like last year.
Anyone know what the match rate was for optho this year? Anecdotally looks like it was an easier match this year < this is otomatch, not opthomatch +1its fine for people to discuss alternative plans on otomatch especially this early in the applicant cycle. we all know ENT is of course the best ;), but how do we really know unless we let people discuss other otpions. ----sam
Does it look bad to include leadership positions in other specialties in your CV? I was intially considering Ophtho and have leadership positions in it and don't know if I should include it in my CV or not. < it does not look bad. Your goal is to make yourself look great. Show them that you could do well in many different arenas: past jobs, community services, leadership, hobbies—even if they seem unrelated. Hype yourself up! If anything, your ophtho experience might help you bond with an interviewer who was also interested in ophtho before choosing ENT. You can also spin it to say you're always been interested in working with smaller, more delicate structuresSidebar, does it look bad if you don't really have any leadership stuff? I did a bunch of research and got some pubs, did well in classes/clerkships, but mostly with how much time that took decided I preferred to spend remaining time with my spouse than be out doing other things.< i think this helps show you are normal and more relatable to patients. also the type of resident i would want to work with < I didn't have anything particularly interesting leadership or volunteer-wise but did have a few little things, and nothing was ever mentioned during my 15 interviews...I really think the other parts of your app are way more important, this is very different than applying to med school
The inverse correlation of Step 1 score and interview invites on the Applicant Stats page is pretty funny. > I imagine those with low scores who posted had more interview invites than many others in the same range and are exceptional- I don't think many applicants with only 1 or 2 interviews had much to update on there < I think someone arranged the 'number of invites column' in descending order without linking the other columns. <false < somebody definitely messed up the columns - my Step scores are not the ones I entered +2 -> gunners next year shooting for 225 over 280 < If you don't hit 225 exactly, you won't match < if you look at that column its not just somewhat inversely correlated. Its perfectly inversely correlated. Someone messed it up
I'm wondering if anyone has done the math for 5 yr ENT residency + 1 yr fellowship to tell at what level of federal loans one would benefit from PSLF?< This is a decent calculator that lets you plug in numbers into an Excel sheet and figure out how much you pay in total over time + how much you would end up having forgiven: < Ty!< excellent question, I have in the past and I beleive it came out to be around 200K. Add monthly payment calculated by percentage of yearly residency income. I believe with Paye and Repaye it is 10%; plus percentage times salary during fellowship; plus percentage times expected salary as an attending. Doing this math with PAYE is easier because it is capped: 10% (58K) + 10% (60K) + 10% (62K) + 10% (64K) + 10% (66K) +10%(100K) + 48K + 48K + 48K + 48K= 233,000. For this I assumed the residency salaries of 58K to 66K; a fellowship salary of 100K, and an attending salary of 400K with monthly payments capped at 4K per month. < fellowship salary of 100k?< Is it more? or less? Maybe I am misremembering but feel free to change it. < pretty sure all GME residents/fellows get the same graded salary of PGY1-PGY8, so if your program pays 66k to PGY5 it will likely offer 68k to PGY6 < thanks for spelling that out!< Not a problem! This is just an approximation and everyone's situation is different. Marriage to someone with an income as well as how much you make in residency, fellowship, and as an attending all affect that, with higher incomes meaning that you will end up paying more before the loans are forgiven and therefore less worth it to risk doing PSLF. < I think it ended up being ~1% of poeple who applied had their loans forgiven through PSLF?< Our financial advisor spoke about this, that turned out to be misinformation or innacurate. The way it was reported it was misleading, but there was a legit reason about why those people did't get it. I would worry more about it's future viability as some politicians are trying to get rid of it. However, I was told we would be grandfathered into it assuming we started paying it. Read the post to the right of this one>Not OP but yeah, people need to actually read the article rather than throwing around that statistic. Vast majority didn't even have graduate loans that would quality to begin with and many other did not fill out the form correctly so the denominator should have been much much smaller than the actual amount. The only big question is not whether or not PSLF will be around 10 years from now, but whether they will still be granting complete forgiveness or if, once more loans start getting forgiven, they decide to cut back on the total forgiveness and say that the max qualification is only x amount, say $50k. For vast majority of ENT people, assuming ~300k average salary (on the low side cause it'd only be for people working at 501c3 organizations), then you'd be paying ~29k/yr a year with your AGI (max out that 403b!) and REPAYE (not including your partner's salary either, which in real life it would). That means that with residency and fellow and 4 years as an attending, no matter what, you will have paid ~ 150-160k of your loans with interest"I have to say that expecting $300k plus as the low end for ENT salaries in the first 2-3 years after finishing residency is setting yourself up for disappointment. More realistic is $180-250 depending on the market. There are exceptions depending on location. But most of the time you don't start making the $500+ salaries unless there are lots of ancillary services like audio, speech and PT (again, some depending on location). If you want to get a real idea of salaries to expect starting out look at the VA and Kaiser salaries in the area you are looking to practice. These will be a little above the going rate offered by private practices. Beware hospital teaser ads with " $750k salary guranteed." These are often structured as loans. The $750k is paid your first two year and unless you stay another two years you have to pay back the loan.
Rebranding is a stratigical move done by companies/corporations/businesses to pivot in new directions that better align with said company's vision, mission, or goal. Although our field of otolaryngology - head and neck surgery provides us with beatiful and rewarding careers as is, I believe it would benefit from such a change. Without a doubt, our beloved field has undergone inmense tranformations that were unthinkable when the field first began. Some of those include the extensive reconstructions after tumor resections, management of cancer patients, beautifuI cosmetic repairs, complicated ear and skull base surgeries, voice and swallowing rehabilitation, all the pediatric surgeries, etc. Therefore, I urge all of you to consider using the terms: otolaryngology head and neck surgery, head and neck surgery, or OHNS over the old term ENT which currently makes the public (our patients) think we only do ear tubes and tonsils. This affects us in many ways but I will only explore one: I have seen outpatient visits in which the surgeon offered the patient surgery for the treatment of certain condition and the patient was super confused and asked whether he/she could do said surgery or whether the patient was going to be referred somewhere else. That surgeon now had to attempt to convince the patient that his residency training and many years of experience made him/her more than qualified to do the procedure. Was the patient convinced? Was the patient convinced enough to proceed with the surgery and show up? There are many more examples. << this could make a useful viewpoint/opinion article ....< :) Thank you, maybe I will work on that. > I tel everyone I'm doing head and neck surgery. < I'm an oto resident and my parents still ask me if they let me do any surgery during my residency (facepalm).< Thanks for sharing. These are the kind of things rebranding will fix. The problem is otolaryngology is way too hard for the average person to say or remember. Head and neck surgery is probably fine, but also might make people think we're just specialized general surgeons or something. Not saying sticking to just ENT is better. As to the example you cited, I think people are just not used to a doctor being able to do both medical and surgical managements. A name change may or may not fix that problem, we just need to do a better job of 'branding' the specialty and getting ourselves known in the public. I would imagine most lay people don't even know that otolaryngology exists as a field.< I vote head and neck surgery< Someone deleted it, fixed it. < Duke's new department is named the "Department of Head and Neck Surgery & Communication Sciences." I assume it is for this reason, and it makes sense to me!< Love it! They get it. <Why not ear nose and throat surgery?< Not sophisticated enough, "Throat" sounds barbaric<Ear hole(s), nose hole(s) and mouth hole surgery it is then +3< We have a winner!!!! < at least moving to OHNS from ENT for an abbreviated name would be beneficial < OHNS is what two institutions I've been at use < H&N Surgery < patients can remember a bunch of other fancy names, like orthopaedics, rheumatology, ophthalmology, etc. Otolaryngology isn't that much worse than those. I like the sound of head and neck surgery, but a lay person might not think to look up a head/neck surgeon if they have otorrhea or CRS symptoms even though that stuff would be right up our alley--Ear Nose Throat would be what comes to mind for those complaints. I don't know that there's a perfect brand-name for us.<Except lay people cant distinguish ophtho from optometry, and no one has a clue what a rheumatologist does. Ear nose and mouth hole surgery is obvi the most accurateI introduce myself as an ear and sinus surgeon. I don't do head and neck or microvascular recon.
Was anyone deciding between ENT and plastics/ > I was inbetween the two. The thing that made me decide ENT was the head and neck cancer dx and management in ENT. I think the HN reconstruction aspect is done a lot by ENTs now as well. Also, I feel like plastics is still open if you choose ENT, limited to head and neck or even 3 year PRS fellowhip after is still possible. <among residency programs, vast majority will have Oto do the recon. And before plastics was an integrated program, I think many people would agree that oto—>plastics fellowship was the best way to get there since there's so much overlap > I also decided ENT over plastics. Ultimately, ENT has much more medical management compared with plastics where you are almost purely a surgeon/proceduralist. I also enjoyed the surgical variety within ENT, compared with purely reconstruction/cosmetics for PRS. Also, ENT allows you to focus on just the head and neck anatomy, wheras PRS requires understanding of the complete (superficial) anatomy of the human body. I also much preferred the culture/personalities of ENTs compared with plastic surgeons. << decided oto over plastics - I think the question is "do you like operating mostly on the face or mostly on breast/other areas" .... you can get to facial plastics from plastics obviously, but do you want to spend 6 years in integrated plastics doing lots of breast recon or do you want to spend 5 years learning to be a face surgeon (with some cool flaps)> Also bear in mind the majority of your residency will be spread out across various disciplines within oto, so beyond the face you'll be learning how to operate thyroids, ears, sinuses, etc. Facial plastics is maybe 3-4 months at most programs +/- how much leeway your program gives you as a chief to choose your cases towards the end. Decide if you're willing to do all of the other things vs if you're ONLY interested in FPRSI don't remember the specificis, but there was an article in one of the main plastics journals recently titled something to the effect of, 'what do we do now that ENT is doing the majority of head/neck recon?' < can we work on doing clefts/craniofacial too (joking! kind of) < This is pretty common for otolaryngology folks as a decision point- my opinion is that otolaryngology gets you a very deep understanding of the head and neck and a lot of the skills are transferrable (parotids to facelift, H&N in general for different types of small reconstructions, flap reconstructions for head and neck recon, facial trauma, and even ear surgery -> otoplasty). ... the anatomy is the main thing and you get a TON of exposure to the anatomy from otolaryngology ... in PRS, you get to do hand and various other types of recons but if you are interested in the recon and cosmetic aspects of the head and neck, I don't think you can be much better trained in that specific focus than doing otolaryngology -> FPRS fellowships < one of the recon guys I interviewed with has a theory that plastic surgery will become much smaller over the next 15-20 years as many different surgical disciplines continue to grow their recon practice
How do published case reports look on apps, good to have a bunch or do they look like CV padding? < If it's that vs. nothing, definitely good. If you have the option to do higher level projects, those are looked on more favorably than case reports, which are the most basic in the hierarchy of research.They definitely add to pub numbers which is a good thing. But most places are also looking for at least 1 original research project as well. Having a lot of case reports with nothing else doesn't look great. < I had three first authored case reports which I was told on the trail by an attending were useless. I agree, in terms of research and contributing to the field, useless. BUT, adds some padding and pub numbers to the CV, as well as gives you experience in writing/reviewing articles which is always useful
Maybe a sign of things to come, but Hopkins has suspended visiting students through the middle of October.< I mean China clamped down on 55+ million people and are only just beginning to reopen stores this past week. Judging by the "different peaks/different curves" across the country, the US as a country will be dealing with this Covid stuff until July/August at best. October is probably a decent bet, but with Fauci saying it will be cyclical since it only very recently hit the southern hemisphere and a vaccine won't be ready for the public until 2021, we might have to brace for another wave come Fall. -> so how do I make my app as competitive as I can adivce for applying in Sep?? thoughts on chances of not being able to do a home Sub-I before then?? < I could see a scenario depending on the next several months where the app deadline could get pushed back or PD's would wait a bit longer to review apps for letters from late sub-is to roll in. They want as complete pic as possible when selecting resident candidates but who knows, I'm merely a lowly resident who might have to go cover the SICU soon. > Thanks for your input! I was initially concerned about not being able to do aways but now I feel even getting to do a sub-I is not 100% rn. WINTER IS COMING.
this is maybe a weird request, but can we not fill in other people's match results. If someone wants to share where they matched on here they should. If they don't they shouldn't have to. < you scared of your name being on the internet? Or is it more that you're a little embarrassed about where you're going? < To the person who responded: you must be fun at parties < It's literally public knowledge. Personal info like emails is fair but if you matched somewhere the info will be up on the program's website. You can't hide it +1 < But they can try.. < why are people filling in results for other people.. < My program sent out our whole roster < some programs posting results on their public, official twitter/instagram accounts < Yea, more than a handful of schools put pictures and names of their interns (with school names) up on twitter < That's all fine and good, but I think this person was asking for control of their information on this site. I agree that the information is definitely out there, but given that we have so little control over the information available about us on the internet, I understand the desire to exert some modicum of controlI mean people are going to find out eventually when program publishes it on website but I agree it should be left to the person << the entire plastics sheet is filled out, but ortho deleted theirs and derm had to lock theirs. idk what accounts for the difference. << Email addresses are not public information < I don't think people are filling in other people's emails. I think its just the name and school.
What medical schools are graduating MS4s early? Which ones are asking MS4s to work as subis vs telling them not to return? Are you being sent to your matched program or your home program? < I heard Sinai is pulling home students early. Not sure if its a voluntary thing or not. Don't think they're sending anyone anywhere - some schools are graduating them early (NYU, Einstein, Columbia, BU) and giving them the option to start early in their home state with a provisional license. Some have the option to stay at their home institution, others seem to be asking at their matched programs if they're in high-need areas. < Just FYI Einstein is not graduating MS4s early as of 3/27< They're not graduating them early, but they are requiring students to work either on the wards or manning phones in order to graduate< Damn that's brutal <NYC is ground zero right now. It’s not time for vacations...they need all the help they can get.
22<Info on COVID-19 (since we will be dealing with airways and all that)
anyone got any updates on aways?If they get cancelled, it affects everyone. So it'll just be a different application cycle than previous years, and PDs will haveta adjust too < One thought would be for them to reduce the number of required letters for people that needed multiple aways to get to 3 < But people also often apply with multiple letters from their home institution, so I don't think you'd need to reduce the required letters. It'll just mean more applicants have more letters from home < Some people don't have home programs.
Any insight on if programs use an algorthm to give applicants a numerical score based on Steps, honors, pubs/pres, etc..< all of them have some quantification of the application especially in creating an interview list. but every program has a different formula...because honestly, every program has different priorities.
for schools that had lots of home applicants: (a) what proprotion of you matched and (b) what do you think helped for those who matched? coming from a school with 8+ applicants next cyclemy program matched 6/7 applicants. I think it's important to keep in mind that you will be compared to your peers. < this, rule of thumb is that each program will interview one person from your school < i was at a few programs where 2+ people from a given institution were there on the same day< i feel like all my peers are well qualified lol < your letters will be compared. <true, we will likely have letters from some of the same ppl, that's kind of scary < It's pretty common for a program to interview 2-3 people from a school, but if there are 7 of you they aren't interviewing all 7. You will definitely be compared to your peers but typically there are enough programs/interviews for everyone to spread out a little < Our program matched 7/7, and we are not a top program necessarily. Some programs interviewed many of us (3-5). All you can really do is work as hard as you can and put maximal effort into your application. Don't worry about the rest. >My program matched 5/6, multiple programs interviewed 3 of the 6 people applying, but never more than that. My advice is make sure to spread y'alls away rotations out. Also the programs that interviewed multiple applicants were all in close proximity regionally, so take that for what its worth. << each program will offer only a few of you interviews and then as people decline may or may not offer more to applicants from your school ... it's hard, but I'd take a realistic look at your application and consider it against your classmates - you may not get many interview offers early on if you're not in the top 3, but could get in off the waitlist - if you are close with the other applicants, discuss where you all would ideally like to be and then consider spreading out your applications and definitely do aways at different places (this is coming from a PGY-3 that helped with interviews this year) <thank you all for this helpful insight < It's pretty silly to suggest looking at your application compared to classmates; how could you possibly know their board scores, grades, experiences. Number one, you never know if someone is telling the truth, and number two, I don't recommend every asking anyone for their board scores or other similarly personal information.<He doesn't mean literally look at their applications. Just compare to them as a benchmark. I think we all know where we stand compared to classmates. > yeah like generally speaking. if all of your classmates have been involved with the department since first year and have been presenting at conferences, and you haven't done any of that, just know that your applications are going to be held side to side with theirs and it will be tough. if anything, it should just motivate you to work hard and compensate.
What was the most detail you were asked about your research? < How many patients did you look at in this study (n) and tell me your most important results. < Usually just "tell me about this project that sounds interesting" since they often are reading the CV for the first time on the spot and have no clue what you did. That said I did have some insanely specific questions come up about methodology and outcomes so know your research. Nothing worse you can do than get asked about your impressive project and not be able to discuss it adequately < my T32 interviews (as expected) went fairly in-depth on methodologyNot trying to scare you but the program I matched at drilled me about research because the chair is an expert in my area of research, luckily I knew my project like the back of my hand. So just know your ish and you should be okay. Assume everyone is an expert. If you have a paper, assume interviewers will skim it. It happened to me. < I also had a few people ask me about my first pub from MS1 which I was clearly an MS1 just doing chart review for (second author) and wasn't particularly interesting research, so part of me wonders if it was a test to see if I knew about ALL research listed or just my most recent/impactful stuff. It doesn't take that long to know your research very well compared to the 10 years of work you put into getting that interview, so don't risk it -- if you don't understand every aspect of a project that you contributed to and put on your app, ask a co-author to talk you through it <its YOUR research. you better know it better than anyone...well maybe not better than the first author. if you don't your name shouldnt be on the paper. But very good idea to do a 5 min run through of your schpiel on each paper with a co-author.
Everyone finsh out the '20 match results with your co-residents and people you know! The data is really helpful for people applying next cycle!< Agree! Very interested in staying in the Northeast so would like to see who matched at BU, Rutgers, etc.
continuing the no home program thread, can current M4s add to how no-home program students can stand out? +1 please! > I did a rotation at a mid-tier program with a very well-known chair and this letter came up at many of my interviews as being the reason I was there <how do i identify which chairs are well-known? <leadership positions in societies is one thing you could look for..having a mentor really helps with that type of thing. Also not every program is wiilling to write a chair letter so would be something worth exploring ie whether rotation typically writes letters for rotators, who letter typically comes from (PD, Chair, Other faculty, etc) < A recently graduated faculty member is probably less likely to be well known than an older faculty member that has trained (and trained with) people who are now faculty at other places<if possible strong aways can help you stand out. If you look at even the top ranked programs people who did aways and didn't have a home program can still match there > Definitely do aways if you can (I did 3), do research and attend national meetings to network. Without a home program to fight for you, you have to be your own best advocatePre covid advice would be: do multiple away rotations and do at least one early on (like June before interns come) so you can get letters from people and have people vouch for you... but now idk I applied this year with no home program. I did three aways and got letters from each of them. On the last day of a sub-i you usually try to set up a meeting with the PD to debrief the month and you can ask them to write a letter for you. I don't think anyone would ever say no to you, as one PD put it in a really truthful way, "you spent so much money, time, and energy to be with us, a LOR is the least we could do in return." I believe each of my letters was co-signed by the Chairs of the departments without me even asking, it's just the general practice of how each PD does it. I would say don't stress too much about that, just work hard and be happy to be there.
It will be difficult for people who were depending on aways to get the required number of letters. If you have enough letters, I actually think it will be nice not to have to do aways. Start writing your personal statement, finish grad reqs and save "away" money to interview. <Yeah, there is only so much in your control. Might not be worth the uphill battle if you have no home program & aways don't restart in time to get the letters necessary. Connections/good letters are everything unfortunately - was surprised by a handful of co-applicants who mentioned having 15+ interviews (at top places too) and not matching, and the only factor I could think of was their med school tier, all else being equal considering they needed to be superstars on paper to get those interviews in the first place. > That is very discouraging if true. < As a non-home program I had this experience- did aways, got some great interviews 100% because of letters/connections from those aways. Ultimately matched at a program that while I'm happy at, was lower on my list and I probably would've interviewed/matched at without those connections- AKA not coming from one of those programs and being from a lower tier med school with no home program probably hurt me in the end. +1 < very similar thing happened to me +1 < I think with the field being so competitive, when these programs have their pick of a couple dozen applicants with similar stellar step scores, grades, etc, they sadly will more often take the applicant from a top med school over the one from a mediocre school.Just got an email from the UCSF PC who said they had a clerkship meeting earlier today and determined that for now they are still going to plan to go forward with June-September aways. So as of now I guess we should still operate as if aways will happen
NYU just gave M4s the option to graduate medical school early and start working in the ED/Medicine floor as interns (paid intern salary) to help out with COVID 19, what are your thoughts on this if you school let you do this?Would you do it? (Yes) (No) < I would 100% not +3< Hmmm, if I had no loans I would for the extra cash. With loan, nah! PSLF baby. A higher income this year could increase my monthly payments the following year; and if they are going to get forgiven, less is more.< The classic swiss cheese conundrum.< Classic tree falls in the woods and noone is around dilema. < classic "does the tin man have a sheet metal cock" conundrum < The ol' "does a bear shit" epithet. <i would check with my PD before doing this - ours specifically told us to not do this and stay healthy <Can't say that I am surprised, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.< I wholeheartedly agree with everything said already, but wanted to add that "más vale pájaro en mano, que ciento volando"< file your taxes and then your intern year IDR payment will be 0. Anything you earn now wont impact your IDR til you're going to be a PGY-2 since it's all based on your previous year's taxes. Plus, when you file you taxes as an intern, your reported income on your W-2 isn't 60K, it's half of that cause you will only have earned 1/2 of that amount for the 2019 fiscal year. Whatever few extra thousand you'll earn by working now really won't make much impact at all on your loans that following year cause your income will be so low< Thank you, this is good to know!< Financials aside there's also a sense of duty and responsibility to help your community amidst a serious medical crisis. It's not an easy decision but I think I would have volunteered. < The majority of students ended up volunteering<This should honestly be part of medical school, so that students actually have experience working and being treated like interns to know what it is like and what they are getting themselves into before they sign contracts and move cross country for very specific training.
anyone else afraid theyre dumb af now? +5 <thats why its a 5 year program < for the real dummies a 7 year program ;-)As an intern, you will be for the first little bit, but you will learn vast amounts of things very fast if you pay attention every day and read a bit every day about the pathologie's you're seeing. < And if you don't have time to read Oto much as an intern, don't worry too much either. First, you need to learn to be a good intern which is time consuming and you'll learn the oto as you go
the name and shame tab is raging!
Is 30 min too far to commute for residency? < probs, i am thinking 15 min at most < it honestly depends on your situation. Im at a NYC program and a decent amount of residents commute 30min a day (depending on which hospital they are currently rotating at). This is of course balanced with certain rotations that are closer to home. But honestly 30 min a day isnt bad. (although driving 30 min and riding a subway for 30 min are different situations)< Current NYC student here, I communiuted 40-60 min each way for every rotation. It's a drag, but honestly lots of people have to commute out here, and I'd guess the average is around 30min. Some people have it better, some have it worse depending on where you were put for your rotation.depends on the area. in the city, 30min would be pretty good. in a more rural area, 30min would suck < are we talking 30 min total or 30 min each way so 1 hour of daily commute? < each way. you cant do 30 min runt trip unless you live across the street from the hospital.
Facebook group for those interested in staying in touch/organizing shenanigans at future COSMs: COSM not cancelled..? < yea, meant future COSM haha < ALL FUTURE COSMS HAVE BEEN INFECTED!
Some interesting stats from the new NRMP data ( For US MD Seniors --> 73% match rate (111 unmatched), 11.4 length of average ROL. For US DO seniors --> 51% match rate (16 unmatched), 5.7 length of average ROL < Oh, ThE DoS wOnT TaKE aNy SpOTs <Idk look at the match results tab. How many MD spots did the DOs really take? Looks like they only matched at their own DO programs.. < good, as it should be. < 2 DOs took MD spots at kentucky and suny, and they did it as reapplicants lol same thing with geisinger
Who messed with the match results tab? Programs aren't lined up nicely anymore. I spent so long making it all pretty before match too :( < I just removed the borders, looks decent now < put the borders back because quarantine and nothing better to do :P > Because quarantine...< Thank you for making it OP. Your hard work is appreciated. A couple of days ago I was wondering how nice of job someone had done!
Anybody else feel like they might want to be part of a facebook group for "ENT residents class of 2025" ? Would love to keep in touch with you guys after some fun times on the trail! +7 < YES PLEASE lets do this! love u all < would also be great to coordinate meet ups at conferences!Good idea, especially now that I can de-private all my social media +2 < Any good social organizers out there? Gotta make it a private group i think < who is bored on quarantine willing to make this group and lead us out of darkness??? <<
Any programs delaying start dates? Nope < i know of IM programs in NYC starting EARLIER < WE NEED MORE WARM BODIES TO PROTECT THE REAL DOCTORS FROM INFECTION
Anybody who did not match and had success with delaying graduation and subsequently dual applying? Just wondering about what you prioritized, whether you did more aways and how dual applying went to you second specialty?< I posted earlier but someone deleted it. I did research after not matching last year and dual applied. I was able get 3 ENT pubs prior to my 2nd app and had a lot of interviews in both specialties and ended up matching ENT. I did 1 away but focused more on research. < Similar boat, but I was fortunate to get one of the clinical research fellowship positions at a big department. Had 10+ submissions, dual applied and matched into ENT. Did not do any aways as I was focused on research and getting letters from that dept. < Reapplicant here. I did a prelim year and made research connections early. Had 3 articles accepted for publication prior to interviews. Was definitely a tight squeeze with intern work hours, but it's still possible for those of you who do not land a research position or can't afford not to work-- good luck!
Some information about COVID since we deal with the airway and all that:
any insights into who the new Stanford chair will be?<did Jackler step down?< i believe he's retiring
Anyone interested in a research year at Mass Eye and Ear? I did it last year, definitely helped me match into ENT this year. Please email if interested.Is this a strong program? < Up and coming, keep a close eye. <<Is it paid?
First off, huge congrats to those who matched last week!! This also may not be the place to ask this, but has any M3 gotten any information about away rotations from your schools so far? Obviously no one really knows how it'll play out right now, but just curious if other institutions have discussed this at all with students. Thanks! > Ours isn't letting anyone go anywhere until at least May, but can still apply. I don't think anyone really knows if or when they'll be accepting people < I posted a link to the right that I've been using - it's a compilation of a bunch of program's decisions on away restrictions so far.
How did re-applicants do this year?< according to NRMP data, 12 MD Grads (assuming reapplicants) matched. Don't know how many applied, but of 505 total applicants, 454 were MD/DO Seniors, and all others were MD/DO grads or IMGs (link posted in next tab).< 2 DO reapplicants matched this year, and both to historically MD programsI'm one that did not match :( U.S. MD grad did a surg prelim < sorry :(
anyone have a link to reddit name and shame? < Posted it to the right. It's also stickied on the /r/medicalschool
Did not match this year. This likely had a lot to do with my lack of research. I come from a school without a home ENT program, so I never really knew how to go about finding projects/mentors. The only "mentor(s)" I have are older, community, private practice ENTs who are not involved with research -- I'd always ask them about interesting cases to write case reports on but they'd always forget. Does anyone have any advice for getting involved in research or finding mentorship? I feel as lost as I did a year ago. < You could try to reach out to any academic ENT places in your city. < try getting one of those research fellowships that someone posted about a couple of rows down < no home program here, matched well. i had to pull teeth to get anything off the ground. but even non-ent research counts so check with other specialities, gen surg thyroids? << Second what others have said. If research is your weakness, do a dedicated research year at an academic program, or do a bunch of non-ENT research (all research is research). I would also put out the call to the internet that you're looking for projects on whatever forums you can- I'm sure there are plenty of now-matched M4s who have projects they need to finish and zero incentive to do so who might want help, or some residents conducting research who might generously let you lend a hand! < thank you for that suggestion! I've already taken a prelim year so a research year is out of the question (I was in a panic attack from 11AM Monday until accepting my SOAP offer Wednesday, felt like I had no time to think). Any suggestions on where to post this sort of research inquiry?? -OP < Does your SOAP institution have an ENT dept? << Probably otomatch forum is a good place to start. But as a prelim- full time resident- I'm curious how much time you'll have to actually work on research.. < Just out of curiosity, I'm an M3 in a similar position (no home program)... how did your stats and other factors line-up compared to the average applicant? < vallid question M3, but even with comparable stats >250/260/P (great stats), with absolutely 0 research in ENT or elsewhere, will likely lead to not matching < pretty much, OP here: 25x/25x/P, 3 research "experiences" (1 ENT), 2 unimpressive pubs (neither ENT), did not match. Since rotations are canceled and Im at home, I'm currently I'm compiling a list of every ENT nearby in a big spreadsheet, searching them on pubmed (focus on the ones w recent research), and cold calling offices. Out of like 10 so far, 1 called me back and has a great case I'm gonna do a case report on. <way to go!So sorry to hear that! I would definitely try doing a research fellowship at a university program. You'd be more likely to be productive AND if they like you, if might give you a leg up when it comes time to apply/interview there!
did UCSF match any home/away students? <one home student, 2 aways
To me its a bit of a bummer that ENT as a field is so academic. I just want to be a community ENT who loves to operate, does 0 research, and goes home at 5 or 6pm to hangout with my wife and kids <+112342425657111< lol so contribute nothing to the very field that gives u so much? Cool. Tell us more <you're naive if you think the research you do as a medical student and "pubs" you're getting for your application are contributing to the field of ENT< +234354575752342356< some medical students do very, very good research work (including work supported by grants/awards) within and outside of ENT < Yah, community ENTs do nothing for society or the field /s < lol. We can all contribute to the field in different ways. Some people don't like research but take care of people who hate visiting large academic centers in big cities and there's nothing wrong with that. < To the person who made the disparaging comment about being a community ENT doc - get off your freakin high horse. Majority of research in the field of oto makes 0 impact on the whole field. Please do tell me about how your retrospective chart review has changed clinical practice across the country. There are lots of programs where you'll rotate with a community Oto doc to see more general ENT and often, you'll be learning a lot from them as a resident with regards to new skills because all they do is operate and I think that's contributing to the field for sure < Yeah, fuck off honestly to that person. So pretentious and naive. < I have to agree a bit because if research wasn't mandated in programs, no one would do it. it has its place in academia but also community docs surely benefit < Except with research being emphasized as quantity over quality, the vast majority of research is pretty useless. Your retrospective chart review and statistical analysis of plumbuses will probably have no real clinical impact or importance. Research should be left to those who care about it and not be expected of everyone, let alone mandated<YAASSSS This are the type of discussions we need! Love it. I vote: less research or at least not required for those who dislike it! If you love it, do it. < Side note, I love my plumbus! < But do you know how plumbuses are made? < wtf is a plumbus lol < WOW OP here... did not think this would get much attention but now that I know many people feel similarly, I have a restored faith in the field< Thanks for speaking out! +1 <But faith lost over all those who do not know what a plumbus is. Go watch Rick and MortyHey, I agree. I hate research, and I'm glad that I'm somewhere that doesn't make me feel like an outcast for it.<also hate research, matched at a place that doesn't care much for research. Just kinda part of the hoops you gotta jump through as a student to get the opportunities as silly as it is < Unfortunately research has become another "standard" thing that applicants all do. There was a point before residency became insanely competitive where you could just pick what you liked to do and do it. It's a shame that a research career has become an expectation rather than a choice, and that people here "look down" on those who simply want to use their clinical skills to treat patients. +1 < I mean lets be real, like the guy above said - it's just another hoop. You think any of us use the organic chemistry we all had to take in college? no way. nobody cares that you know how to synthesize the chemical that smells like bananas. whatever. its just used as a tool to guage intelligence, work ethic, and passion. screw research. i had 12 pubs. ill force myself to do another couple in residency, but thats not why i, personally, went into medicne. and thats to take care of patients. sure, contributing to the field is a nice thing, i guess. but i care about my patients, and i will do a good job either in academia or in pp. peace. +1 < sure but the organic chemistry etc is what separates us from the midlevels. so in some way it does help. sure we don't use it but clearing a hoop still has value if in demonstrating work ethic etc. < gtfo that makes no sense. It's archaic and a waste of time. If it's just "work ethic" by doing meaningless shit that doesn't help, then we shouldn't feel superior to midlevels. It's the rigor of our TRAINING which is what separates us. + 1 < absolutely agree but midlevels would likely fail our premed courses. so isn't that still something? < the point of organic chemistry is that you can rationally think through biochem not just memorize names, the point of biochem is so you can understand pharm and not just....ah screw it. We’re the same as midlevels only they let us cut. < boo on that 1. midlevels are strikingly undereducated. if you haven't seen it yet, u will
Operate a lot, make lots of $$$, go home early, do research, be respected by peers....choose two, you can’t have it all. < is that even a question? make lots of $$$ and go home early are a badass dynamic duo...
PSA to not let otomatch drive u mad during application season - I was crushed when I didn't get an interview invite to a top choice program on day 1 they were released but then got one a few days later, and that program was listed as potentially doing ranked highly calls (never confirmed but who knows) so I thought I'd never match there, but I did! In retrospect, that was a lot of negative energy wasted. I encourage you to look at otomatch only as much as your mental health can handle, and take everything with a massive grain of salt +1
50< lol why does the results section reek of bias < why is this always an issue? Let the best applicants in regardless of race. If anything that shouldn't even be on apps along with gender <I agree. the affirmative action happened when you got into med school < lol wow the people above me really need some perspective. thanks for the article OP. < It makes me pretty sad that people keep coming on this page talking about how race and gender dont matter...the fact of the matter is that ENT is historically a white male dominated field and taking steps to change that is the right move for multiple reasons. One, its hard to go in to a field when you see that no one looks like you and that also opens up areas to unconscious bias cause more white males to pick more white males. Two, its good for patient care to have providers that understand their cultures and values and thats just easier to do if you are that culture +95
Anyone receive post-interview communication from a program that ended up not ranking them to match?< are you only referring to unsolicited communication or also including positive responses to LOIs? < unsolicitedI got positive comments throughout my interview day since I previously rotated there. Lots of "we already know you! So so excited to have you back! We hope you consider us! Looking forward to working with you!" And many residents said things like "We hope you match with us, you're awesome." and "you'll definitely get it, everyone loves you." Then I got a really nice response from my LOI, but then I didn't match there. I think the lesson to be learned is don't believe ANYTHING they tell you. Play the system the same way they play you. Tell them what they want to hear, but don't trust any praise they give you because there's no guarantee. Otherwise you'll just get your hopes up and feel disappointment because things didn't work out how you'd planned. > yes. +1 > Yes this should be obvious. You should be telling hem EXACTLY what they want to here. "Where do you see yourself in 10 years." Well, I hope to be a graduate from THIS program, and an associate professor in academics" Total BS obviously, but tell them you love them, and when they do the same, don't read to much into it. You got played, bud, sorry.I had a PD call me and tell me he hoped I would be there next year. Didn't match. <Name and shame, name and shame! < No thanks, I genuinely liked him and the program and want a shot there next year. Very bummed about the situation though.
Congrats everyone! Looking at the results and the people we've met on the trail, it's almost scary how the personalities really fit the programs they end up going totrue! i am super excited for my intern class
So pretty much all the top 10 programs per Doximity (besides Michigan) almost exclusively matched people from brand name schools or with elite home departments. Is this pretty much always the case? < I think when all else are equal, school name can be a tie breaker unfortunately < I came from a smaller program and matched to a top 10 (not this past year). A lot of it comes down to not just the name, but the connections your dept has with other programs and the power that the people in your home program have in the field. I'm sure there's a lot of behind the scenes discussion going on about applicants among PD's with people they know and obviously that can only happen if they know people at your program. I think it's similar to how we will text our friends at other programs to get an opinion on an applicant if they did an away at a program where I have a friend. Med schools with top programs also just tend to attract more applicants to applying into those fields as a whole<< I'm from a name brand program and have to agree with this... I worked hard, but I had the same research and similar step scores and got way better interviews than my friends at our state school — I'm worried this is going to get worse with pass/fail step 1 < i agree that this will be worse after pass fail step 1...and it might even provoke some backlash against top10 MS from state school programs after a couple years.Yes. Look at last year's match list as well with a couple exceptions out of 40 or so spots < well, saves us state-schoolers a couple hundred on apps at least haha < Michigan also self selects for people who would be willing to live there... whereas a large majority of the brand name med schools are either northeast or california (thus feeding into residencies in places like boston or SF) < if you look at michigan's list though it's basically all away rotators (except for the home student)<yea for sure. I would say often looking at years past they don't always only match home and away rotators but this year you're right they did < non-name brand school applicant who matched at a top 10 with no connections avg step score and avg research. Certainly very little special about me. Just took advantage of the opportunity when it was given to me. Morale of the story is, don't write yourself off because of institution, step score, lack of connections, etc I wish that list didn't exist. It's literally meaningless. If you are lucky enough to match into ENT than you will be fine. You won't T get bad training at any program in the country. Unless you want to big time academic legend it really doesn't matter
What was the match rate this year? < 68% per nrmp < does this include DOs and reapplicants? < for MD seniors the match rate is 74% (310/421)<think it makes more sense to use 348 (total matched)/505(total applicants) bc some reapps were very competitive and fared well, and since formerly DO residencies are included in the match Also shows the gen surg match rate was 74% for usmd and 56% for all apps. Are things really that competitive? < Not sure of the methodology, but could reflect applicants who applied as backup to GS and matched their preferred sub< i had several friends who were competitive applicants not match gen surg.
Anyone else disappointed that they fell lower down their list than expected? Also, I can't help but feel some resentment toward the people who matched at my top choice. Please don't say it's just me... < this is me too < me too. I had gotten extremely positive feedback from my top three, I was very blindsided by where I ended up < I was grateful to match < OK obviously we're all grateful to match, but we're just saying it's an uncomfortable feeling < yes, i also fell much lower than expected < +2 < A lot of people ive talked to fell lower than expected, I think it was just a very competitive year < how far are ya'll talking? falling 9 with 10 IVs? Or 5 out of 15? < I fell to 7. < remember the 1/4 people who didn't match anywhere. Be thankful for your "low" list match < I fell to 14 of 19. I couple's matched and my partner had a lot of application issues. It's really hard not to have some resentment. < at least you're together!f < for people who are not aiming to be academic ENTs, does the national rank of your program really matter? <do you mean our rank list, or perceived reputation based on doximity rankings? < If you're talking about program rank on doximity, that doesn't mean shit. The only thing it represents is reputation, not actually the quality of the program. Case in point Hopkins at #1 (not saying that Hopkins is a bad program by any means). Having rotated at 4 institutions total I have personal disagreements with many of the rankings, but at the same time my priorities (academic vs. clinical) are different than what other people value.Which program did you match at: (#1) +15 (#2) +5 (#3) +11 (#4) +4 (#5)+3 (#6) (#7)+5 (#8) +1 (#9) +1 (#10) +1 (#11 or more) +5
can we all be really productive w research so we can see each other at conferences?!?! i miss my interview buds already!!! < +4
Would be very helpful if someone who has reviewed apps can describe a little bit on how they approach screening/looking at apps. Thanks! < this would be helpful info for everyone +16!!
Anyone find that not having Step II on their app affected the match if Step 1 was 250-255? < yes. I think it helped a lot. Step 1 >255 and CK >265 and multiple ppl mentioned CK esp since I took it early, likely demonstrates judgement and consistency < Just take CK early. You remember more from 3rd year clerkships and then you don't have to worry about it the rest of the year. If you did well on Step 1, you'll probs do just fine on Step 2 < To add another data point with a different view, I was 250-260 Step 1, did not take CK until after I applied, did relatively bad (mid 240s) but didn't study, and submitted my scores about 2 weeks before ranks were due. Got about 25 interview invites and not once did they bring up CK score and ended up matching at a top program. It probably would help if you killed it, but I definitely don't think you need to take it early.< 245-250 step 1, didn't take step 2ck till late, got 25+ offers, didn't affect me at all < how do you know? if u got >260 CK, maybe caliber or tier would change for those 25 IVs. i think the trend is shifting that a good CK can def help u < A good CK score always helps, but it definitely isn't necessary if you score fine on Step 1. I got 5 top 10 interviews with good but not killer step 1 (~260) and no CK. If you want more schedule flexibility and don't have time to devote time to study, then definitely don't take Step 2 if you don't want to. > "good but not killer ~260". Ok. < LOL < a good step2 just makes things more spicy and i'd say it'd help if you dont have a great name school backing your application
If I'm thinking about anesthesia as a backup for next year, am I better off applying TYs/Prelims and then applying to R2s as an intern? Seems like most programs you'd want to go to for categorical are at the same place as an ENT residency so you wouldn't want to apply to bothIF you are definitely doing a prelim and you want to match to an R2 spot, do a gen surg prelim.. they will be a lot more likely to take you and you need basic surgical skills
fill out those match results folks! dying of curiosity to see where friends from the trail ended up!
Jfc Vanderbilt and UCSD med school matches < USC with 3/4 home students niceee < surprised at this one, didn't realize how many ENT applicants there were from USC this year??? < those applicants are such cool folk, met most of them and so impressed/jelly they are together < I think they meant the matches from those med schools +1
What do we do with swag items from the programs that REJECTED us? < send them my way pls, thanks!
Where is the Top 3 Rank survey located exactly? Could someone provide a link> whoops forgot to fill this out.... look at
Good luck to everyone here! Those of you I met on the trail were some of the most awesome people I could imagine as future co-interns, and I can't wait to find out who I'll be spending the next 5-7 years with!! And to reiterate what someone said below, no matter where we land on our ranklists, we'll be lucky to train in the best profession in the world!
t-25 minutes let's gooooooooooooo
For reapplicants, what's the general match rate on re-application after doing prelim vs doing a research fellowship? < basically identical < I doubt you'll find good stats on this < Probably depends much more on the individual, their networking and stats than the route they chose
whats up fam. Wishing you guys luck with the match today! I was unfortunately one of the unlucky folks who didn't match but I met some amazing and awesome people on the trail this year. You guys are great and hope you get to go where you wanna go! < the vast majority of people I met on the interview trail are straight up awesomeThe best of luck to you. I was where you are last year. The next weeks will suck, no getting around that. But you will be fine, its just a road bump and you'll be OK. I'll find out in a few hours if I'm gonna be an ENT or something else. Either way, I'm happy < congrats!! if you don't mind me asking, what did you do? My plan is to do a gen surg prelim, and then dual apply ENT and anesthesia next year. < I delayed graduation and dual applied < gotcha, thanks! again best of luck! < for what its worth, i did not delay graduation, did a gen surg prelim, worked to publish more at the same time, and matched ENT. I think there's no specific recipe, and its hard and it sucks, but work your ass off to be the best gen surg resident at that program and try and publish whatever you can. Good luck, hang in there
4 am, can't sleep. Anyone else on this page right now too? 😅 << of course I woke up at 5am today... because of course > yep > Slept til 10 :)
If someone asked you to rank the most competitve specialties including ENT, what would you say? < rank them how < ent, plastics, ortho <derm, plastics, ent, ortho, neurosurg, IRNeurosurgery... 2 spots/class... + insane research < neurosurg, derm, plastics (integrative), CT surg (integrative), ENT, rad onc, ortho < not rad onc anymore < derm, IR, plastics, nsgy, ENT, ortho, CT (in that order is how I see it) < Derm had SOAP spots at good residencies this year, not so sure < what about optho and uro in terms of competitiveness? < never knew CT was that competitive < there are only 28 programs for the integrated path < but there's also fellowship after a gen surg residency, so kinda not equivalent since there's pathways to get there even if you don't match integrated < yeah, same as IR, they all dual apply IR DR cause of fellowship. Theoretically it's similar with vascular and to a small extent plastics but there are so many spots relative to those that it doesn't really follow the same logic. I feel like for Oto, ortho, NSG, and derm, there's no alternative fellowship so residency is your one shot at getting that job
In preparation for tomorrow, obviously everyone will be stoked that was fortunate enough to match. Still, you might be like me a few years ago where I opened my letter and felt a bit of sadness for not matching into one of my favorite programs, and being disappointed in myself for "falling down my rank list" so much. This is normal, but it was myopic and entitled of me. This is such a great field. I love my residency program, and am so grateful to be here. I spent a couple of months in a bitter place, and that was silly. Bitterness is probably justified to some degree in those that didn't match, but if you're matched into ENT, you are getting into the greatest job in the planet, replete with kind, talented, and intelligent docs. CELEBRATE NO MATTER IF YOU MATCH AT THE TOP OR AT THE BOTTOM OF YOUR LIST! < thank you!!!!!!!!! +2:) Thank you so much! So true, we put too much undue pressure on ourselves and messages such as this one help us stay grounded and see the bigger picture.
I hope yalll are ready to become ICU doctors> put me in coach > does anyone think there may be a chance for a residency start date push back? << no I think we could get called in early and all do our non-ENT shifts (ER, ICU, acute gen surg) early to support the system < absolutely no way residency will be delayed. Think about it. Senior residents are still graduating so they'll be gone so they absolutely will need interns to help pick up the workload< intern here - we're on standby to fill in on gen surg or ED if they start to run low on residents since if one resident tests positive, it automatically quarantines so many residents in that department < friend told me their hospital has already pulled surgical subsp. residents to ICU and EM shifts < I really don't want to work in the ED lol... > 10/10 would rather an ENT intubate me in the ED than an ED physician though < ive actaully had this convo with friends, would you rather be intubated by a ER, anesthesia or ENT doc? Obviously we dont intubate as often as the other two but also we have tools like the Hollinger for more dificult airways < intubation is bread and butter for anes, practice makes perfect. the answer is clear, when given a choice, let gas do it < for regular airways, for sure. But for difficult airways, we are way more comfortable manipulating the airway without jacking it up in the process, doing AFOI cause it's just like doing a NPL and obviously using a hollinger or vent bronch. I've gone to difficult airways where anesthesia is freaking out cause he was difficult to bag mask and all I did was a simple jaw thrust maneuver and the patient was much easier to mask. It's not always about skill but sometimes it's also just coming in with a fresh set of eyesIf anything start dates could get moved up to backfill spots. Italy graduated their med students a year early because they need more doctors. Hopefully we won't be that bad but I can't see them delaying < I've completed all graudation requirements, just waiting for my diploma, but I can't see the US government (CMS) getting its act together to provide the extra months of residency funding to get us into the wards sooner.
T-minus 18 hours h o l y s h i t < S H O
I went to back to the developer tools on ERAS after matching and it says "isSoap = true" :O < ya it was true on monday after match. useless lol < mine still says false lol
SOAP - simple object access protocol. Has nothing to do with supplimental offer and acceptance program
Well all of the programs now know who they got! <true? yesImma start cold calling PDs were I ranked top 10. fuck it. < that may be several uncomfortable calls....we liked you and made a ranked to match call...but you know how it is....players gotta play
Can anyone provide program/rotation reviews for EVMS, U Maryland, and Penn State? Not much on these programs for the past few Otomatch spreadsheets < Can give reviews from just interviewing if that's helpful.. < That would be helpful! Thanks! +1
Keep in mind that the results of the Otomatch Top 3 Rank Survey are, in part, a function of how many people each school chose to interview. Comparing a school with 1 spot to one with 5 spots could represent a difference in >50 more interviewees. I don't believe the utility of this really cool survey is to rank schools, but rather provide interesting insight into a relatively hidden and secretive part of the application process.<well said +3 < the survey is more insight about the mentallity of survey taking ENT applicants than a real representation of the programs themselvesGood point! Results are not normalized by the number of interview spots. But its tough to use number of residency spots as a normalizing factor. It would seem like, more residents = more interviews, but big programs have fewer interviews per resident. So it sort of evens out. The data is there though, so if you want to do your own analysis have at it....just remember to make an acknowlegement if you publish it. ----sam
My school went 2 out of 3 in this year's match. Anywhere with 5+ applicants that all matched? Excited for Friday! < Cincy went 6/6! < Vandy was 5/5 < Rutgers (NJMS 4/4 RWJMS 1/1) 5/5 < Univ. of Wisconsin went 4/4 < Mayo went 5/5< Hopkins 7/7<Ohio State 7/8<Texas A&M 1/1 <- lol / UCSD 6/6 < Maryland 5/5<<how about big name schools like hopkins or havard, did all of them match?< What about Jeff or Sinai? I met a few home students who said they had 8+ applying < I don't like this convo, could make several poor souls who are already going through shit feel much worse if they are the 1 of the 6/7 of didn't match from a specific program. please stop this. < eh, most know their own school's match rate anyway< feel much worse? you're about to become an ENT resident. if this is too triggering i'm eager to see how your PGY-2 will fare. < I think they're saying that the one person who didn't match from each school will feel worse,
The initial set of results from the Otomatch Top 3 Rank Survey are now available. Go to the main Otomatch website for the link. Additional analysis and comments will be release over the next few weeks. A survey of applicant stats is also up on the main site. This is for current MS4's. The survey should be open for about a month and results published in May. --- < thank you so much, Sam! will the comments be released at some point?Thank you!!! 1 < thoughts on the list? < Strange list <why strange? < Rutgers so high, the unfilled DO program higher than Loyola and the NYC programs, Oregon so low< That's a good point actually...the top 10-15 are believable though <Iowa and Pitt are pretty low too < and USC <Iowa and Pitt were pretty low last year...considering academic reputation <I'm wondering why both Oregon and Davis are so low when everyone kept fawning over them in the chat? Anyone have insight on why people wouldn't rank these programs highly? < remember, the survey is a self selected sample, so while it's an interesting data point, you need to keep its limitations in mind. < 3 of my good friends said they ranked a program number 1 yet on the survey that program has no votes for number 1. Definitely a self selected sample with limitations as the above person mentioned. Either way, if you like a program then it is the program for you and you shouldn't base popularity or caliber of a program based on an otomatch survey < Rutgers seems to be hitting above its weight- any thoughts? < lots of home studs < Only 4, and not a given they'd rank home highly. Though they are studs < for the people who say their reponses weren't included...if you submitted after 3/13/20 it went to /dev/null. if it was before then have them email because if there are ways to make it more accurate I want to do it. ---sam << Rutger's always matches well. One of their faculty pumps out papers like no one else and as a result, their med students have a lot of research opportunities so in addition to being very strong students, they've got the research to back them up. Also, not surprised about Pitt and Iowa - even last year, people weren't super into those historically strong programs. Neither of them really gave off the appearance of being in an upward trajectory and Pitt not having any flap recon until recently definitely hurt them > No one is surprised Rutgers students matched well. I'm asking why they suddenly jumped to top ten most popular programs in *other* student rankings < maybe it has to do with the merger with St. Barnabas? < I think it means nothing other than the survey has a lot of limitations. It's unlikely that a DO program that people have said went unfilled could be ranked so highly compared to programs that filled < keep in mind that applicants are typically interviewed in tiers... i.e. the same caliber probram (specifically speaking reputation wise not quality cause 95% of ENT programs have phenomenal training) often interview the same applicants. This can certainly affect the results of the survery. < Rutgers interviews a TON of applicants, so that certainly helps your standings in this survey method. Some might argue that interviewing a high ratio of interviews:spots might expose that they traditionally have to go pretty far down their rank list to fill their positions, but that is just speculationWas KCU one of the programs that didnt match?
Coolest area of research? -- Zandys steroid-impregnated stent for tracheal stenosis< why steroids and not mitomycin?Was just reading an article from ENT Today that noted no difference in time to repeat surgeries for Tracheal Stenosis patients treated with MitoC vs. no treatment – TLDR Mitomycin doesn't improve outcome after tracheal stenosis surgery. < it would be interesting to see what procedures they included in both arms and if it was randomized. I could believe it tho.
Are COSM posters still due online by 3/31 if COSM itself is canceled? It's not clear based on their announcement.
Question: are there students out there that have already military matched into the ENT spots available since their match is in December, would be really curious to hear what their training is like compared to the civilian programs.
Favorite/best ENT procedure? < Neck dissection +1< MYRINGOTOMY LETS GOOOOO < Thyroplasty! < being 1st assist on a satisfying < lymph node biopsy, love using the count detector <radiated fingers make my arthritis feel better...:) <LOL<Endoscopic Pituitary Adenomas< LTR s/o to the peds peeps NECK DISSECTIONS <1+<oooh yea....especially with a total gloss/box. just seeing two carotids and a jug left is amaaaazing.
Guys and gals, so fucking excited to see who my cointerns are +6 < we gotta fill out the match results tab so we can find each other +1:)
Reapplicant here; how likely are some of these research fellowships to go ahead given the COVID situation? The future with respect to COVID is entirely unpredictable. as a matched applicant, im preparing to get an email next week saying either 1) we need you to start early cuz our doctors are dying 2) there arent enough cases and its too risk to start in june, as of now you will start in september, or 3) lets rock and roll as normal; im not sure how the reseacj fellowships will proceed. i wish you luck, and hope you stay safe during this time < I think some will move ahead it just may mean they look a bit different at first. Less patient contact more secondary data analysis or systematic reviews etc. < given government funding will be involved with moving up residency, I doubt item 1 will happen
With very little left to excite me before friday at noon, I'm l i v i n g for these survey results < damn you still get to know at noon? I'm gunna be sweating from noon till 1 pm > +1 well now everyone gets their stuff from the nrmp at noon! One hour less of sweating <+1 please release the survey results!< Yo to OP, how did you make "living" be spread out like that? I like to know excel tricks. <step 1: find the spacebar. Step 2: press the spacebar. < lol < AHHHH I forgot about the space bar< to pile on, stop teasing the Survey and just throw it out there. < least the main part ---sam
Congrats to those of you who matched! You worked hard and deserve it! For those of you who did not, I am very sorry. ENT is incredibly competitive, and you should not let this define you. I went unmatched last year and during that time I thought about what other specialties I would be happy in and if I wanted to reapply ENT. I was not sure if going unmatched would flag me and make things difficult applying to other specialties. But I can tell you that, at the end of the day, a competitive application is a competitive application. I did some shadowing and found another surgical subspecialty which I really liked. I delayed graduation and took rotations in the new specialty. It was obvious from my personal statement that I had a failed match so I can’t say how much US senior status made a difference. I applied this year and I’m happy to say that things went well. So take this time to do some soul searching and just know that there are many opportunities still available to you. < Congrats on matching! Which specialty did you reapply into? Was your school pretty chill with you delaying graduation?I’d be identifying myself if I give more details. If this is a route that you are interested in, I would reach out to a couple advisors in the field you are looking at and ask what your chances are. Ask if you shadow them x number of times would they be willing to write you a strong letter of recommendation. Reach out to all your classmates who just matched into the specialty and get the lowdown on who you need letters from, which attending publishes the most, who is on the residency committee at your home program (ie who you should also try to shadow). I focused more on making connections this year and getting to know my attendings as people rather than my boss.
For those who have decided to soap into a general surgery prelim, the question you should be asking is "how many days off do I get for interviews?". If you're interested in dual applying to general surgery next year you will also want to ask how often the program takes their home surg prelim allows essentially unlimited days for interviews and just eats it which was super encouraging < my home ENT program has former prelim residents, SOAPing was not pleasant but my faculty in both surgery and ENT are very supportive of both matching or finding PGY2 positions <<Where??
What are some of the programs with the strongest facial plastic and reconstructive divisions? < UCLA, UCSF < OHSU, NYU, Hopkins < Not the OP but resident going into FPRS- if interested in both reconstructive and cosmetic FPRS, the top places in no particular order are Minnesota, Hopkins, UCLA, UCSF, and maybe Jefferson, OHSU -- if interested in cosmetics only its an entirely different situation as those private practice fellowships are meant to set you up with a business plan etc. to go into PP<Buffalo is also extremely strong in FPRS. Doesn't have the glam name as the aforementioned programs but the plastics experience easily compares if not exceeds that of the others.I'd add Minnesota as well - super strong in plastics and faculty seemed super supportive at interview day
What are some of the programs with the strongest facial plastic and reconstructive divisions? < UCLA, UCSF < OHSU, NYU, Hopkins < Not the OP but resident going into FPRS- if interested in both reconstructive and cosmetic FPRS, the top places in no particular order are Minnesota, Hopkins, UCLA, UCSF, and maybe Jefferson, OHSU -- if interested in cosmetics only its an entirely different situation as those private practice fellowships are meant to set you up with a business plan etc. to g
What is the difference between a transitional vs a prelim gen surg spot? Can both enter an empty ENT vacancy, and does one look better than another?TY is very different that a gen surg prelim year. I've never heard of someone jumping from TY to ENT. Vast majority of TY peeps are subspecialty people like derm and ophtho. Personally, I think gen surg prelim year would be the way to go if you're not going to do research-> thank youuNeither can go directly into PGY2 Oto bc of the special structure of the OGY1 Oto year (6 months Oto + 6 monthe from a menu of other rotations. No TY or GS is going to let you do 6 months of Oto. You're there to do their work, not get a spot in ENT (their pov). <+1 <idk if thats actually a hard and fast rule. I havent heard of it happening but i know a gen surg prelim who didn match neurosurg then got a pgy-2 spot the following year at a top 10 program. I think it's more limited by the fact that you likely won't have PGY-2 spots available for a gen surg prelim to actually jump into and so they'll have to re-do intern year with oto
Anyone know if there were any open spots in ENT for SOAP? Just curious :) < 2, per the report here< both were historically DO programs
Anyone have information on away rotations with all of the COVID restrictions? > site to the right is a compilation, not exhaustive but helpful
So my research year has slowed down and I'm getting anxious over lost productivity time. Any ideas for ways I can stay productive? > Start working toward deadlines for the next conference that hopefully takes place > Imagine the sweet taste of match after all your projects came to fruition
Probably going to get eaten alive for this but any recommendations on taking step 3? We're all stuck at home for months now anyway due to COVID and I've heard it's great to get out of the way before residency...<Prometric centers closed for a while too and you can't take Step 3 until after you receive graduation diploma so late June would likely be earliest for many of you < Still- worth it?< Maybe time it so you don't miss out if your institution offers to pay for it. Would be a bummer to find out you paid for it prior to starting residency.< I totally agree - lets bust this out asap! We'll see on Friday where we match, and maybe the program would be willing to work with us on compensation? IDK how many programs pay for Step 3 or not... but I've definitely heard it's a thing! < most programs just give an educational stipend and you can use it for paying for step 3 or your loupes or whatever - I used my money to pay for step 3 and uworld and then paid for my loupes in installments (Design for Vision and surgitel offer 3 months no interest, orascoptic offers 3,6, or 9 months no interest).< Which company do you recommend for loupes? < DFV is the most common loupes that residents have but you should have all 3 reps come so you can compare them all. I personally thought DFV has the worst lenses as things go out of focus very quickly if your outside your working distance but that only really impacts you when you're more junior and are double scrubbed. The other thing was that I wanted a greater angle of declination so I went with orascoptic which i've been very happy with
Anyone else unable to see the Top 3 rank survey for 2020? Main says there's an issue with the URL < What is the URL? <Wow someone is actually looking at the main site! Bonus to you! ---samI think sam is targeting Thursday for availability
It really sucks working so fucking hard during medical school and do all the right things only to get boned by the match and see all of your friends get to do the specialty of their dreams. < its really hard seeing classmates with near zero research and average board scores get top 10 interviews in other specialities when top students dont even match in ENT < What do you mean "top" student ? its not all about board scores and AOA membership. Its also LoR, personality, connections, and luck < lol @ luck < luck isnt entire untrue, a lot of PDs will distribute packets of interview candidates to different attendings and have them select who they think should be invited for interview. The entire decision to invite or not invite for an interview can be based on who reads your application. < sad but true...even PD's who read all the applications read them at different times.bad day could easliy make feel less generous at certain times and on certain days. I can't even begin to imagine. I am really sorry you are going through this. +2