Urology Match 2018
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Somebody delete some shit on this year's page, I can't even load itsometimes they are masked as surgery rotations, not urology ones. best way is to go to the school's course catalog and see how it's listedis this you? https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalschool/comments/83fax8/serious_how_to_find_exterships_to_apply_to_on_vsas/ we can't help if you don't give us more info
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Can any 4th years who matched ballpark how much money to budget for interview season? Say for 10-15 interviews maybe?moved to 2019 sheet~$4000
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when will the 2018-2019 spreadsheet open?D3=HYPERLINK("https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TYRH90QgPmVVJTqVb77t722BfOJjJgt7lX-MNGgZiWA/edit?usp=sharing","Urology match 2019"
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TYRH90QgPmVVJTqVb77t722BfOJjJgt7lX-MNGgZiWA/edit?usp=sharingn
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Anyone have thoughts regarding doing all away rotations in-state (California)? It doesn't seem financially feasible at this point for me to do aways out-of-state, and there are plenty of programs in California to rotate through. But I don't want other states to think I'm not interested in moving away for residencySome people think geographic bias is real, other not so much. If you are wanting to stay in california then definitely do your rotations in state. If you are interested in possibily going elsewhere, then it may be helpful to do one rotation out of state.
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Does anyone have experience with late (August into September) rotations at OHSU or UWASH? Is it feasible to still get a letter from either of these programs in a reasonable amount of time to upload it to ERAS with a later rotation?Just talk with the program director at the beginning of the rotation to see if it is feasable, otherwise make sure you have a back up letter ready to go I did a UW rotation starting Sept 25 and in our orientation email the coordinator asked us if we would need a letter so she could set up a meeting - so they are def aware and an August rotation should be plenty of time <-- Thanks so much!Does anyone know when OHSU opens the application for rotations in Aug-Oct?
Website suggests last year opened in April <--on vsas if you click their school it says april 2, which is consistent w// their website which says it opened april 3 last year
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How much STI/STD work is in urology? I just finished a 3 wk elective and saw none. Was not sure if that was typical or notNot much, generally a PCP thing.
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impressions on the chicago programs? if you rotate at one are you looked at differently for the others?UIC sells themselves as an inovated/engineering research year school. They have some good young faculty that are doing some interesting things. Heard that autonomy is average at UCI. UChicago is a heavy opperative residency, they like to opperate and are back loaded, heavy onc. Northwestern is a really well-rounded residency with a good mix of autonomy at lifestyle (they do a nightfloat system rather than home call). Northwestern is a bit more formal of a program, but the faculty are incredible. Don't know as much about Rush, Loyola, or Cook County
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Anyone have thoughts of an away/interview/residency at u cincy? not much info for the past couple of yearsthe interview was great, attendings were nice. residents were cool. and residency seemed a good fit, they had good well rounded experience.
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Just a reminder about the AUA webinar on February 26th (Monday) specifically for 3rd year medical students interested in Urology with advice on how to navigate the upcoming application process. Here is a link that you can register for the webinar that way it will remind you a couple of days before the webinar that it is coming up. https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/1291823196534811649is there any way to watch this now?? i missed it......nvm i just realized if you go on the website and register itll take you to the video
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Not everyone posts their stats <---still, i would expect more even with the selection bias
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any idea when programs will start opening up dates on VSAS? is it typically march?Some will open in March, more will open in April, and then its kind of rolling from there. You should be able to look and see on VSAS now when programs opened last year and that will give you a sense of when they are going to open this year. If you are interested in a particular program, you can always email them and ask when they are planning to open. <--- semi related, but can anyone find U of Minnesota on VSAS for urology anymore? <-- If you search under institution it says the catalogue doesn't open until 2/16 so I'm thinking it might be up then<- can't find Duke for anything...Some programs don’t put up their listings until later in the season. Some (I know like Mayo) have a their own application on their website. Check out the programs website and they often say how the away rotation process goes and if not you can always email them and ask. did anyone find themselves in a situation of finding out they didnt get an away and not being able to apply for another? I dont want to waste a month, so I’m thinking about applying for a backup for each month as well, even though the answers are mixed as to how much of an impact turning down an away due to schedule conflict has? would appreciate any advice on this <-- Also curious about this, especially for early (June) rotations
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If programs have cut-offs will they look at step 2 as part of the cutoff? So if a program cuts off at 240, and my step 2 is above 240 but step 1 isn',t do I make the cut? <every program has a different way of setting their cutoffs, some programs just use step 1, others use a combination of step 1 and 2 (with step 1 likely weighed heavier); and these cutoffs are not publicly available unfortunately.< so the cutoffs on freida aren't accurate? <-- I wouldnt use them as a reason not to apply to a place you are interested in.
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How essential are honors during 3rd year? so far have only gotten HP<-I got an HP in surgery (with a mix of HP's and honors M3 year) and I matched at my #1 choice. No one even asked about my 3rd year grades on interviews. One blemish on your application won't sink your chances as long as the rest of your application is solid.Perfect thanks!
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I'm from the SE, go to school in the NE. Really want to end up in the SE for residency but also willing to go West (not including CA), no interest in staying in the NE. Any thoughts on where to do Sub-I's? I'll have to do a sub-I at my home institution in NYC, planning on doing one in the SE. I'm trying to decide if I should do my second in the SE at another program I like, or one out West to show Western programs I'm willing to go out there. Did Undergrad in the SE. Anybody have advice? Middle of the pack applicant (Step 1: 250+; should be in top quartile of class; 7 pubs; attend a top 20 institution with a strong Uro program and should have good rec letters from chair and research mentor; currently doing Uro research the next couple months).You're not a middle of the pack applicant! I'd recommend doing an away at UNC/Duke/Emory, and then one at UW/OHSU. Good luck <- +1 <- thank god this person is not middle of the pack lol <- +1 <- I'd throw Vandy in there as an excellent sub-I<<looking at the matched stats makes me feel middle of the pack lol. thank you for the advice
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My school does 3-week elective blocks. If I want to do an away at a school that typically does 4-week elective blocks, can I negotiate with them to do a 3-week away? Or would that be interpreted negatively? It just really messes up my schedule to insert a 4-weeker and then try to get back on my home scheduleI believe some programs have 3 week aways(UCLA) comes to mind, some others might as well<< ucla is my home school haha, trying to do an away out of state (midwest) but it looks like most programs are 4-week aways<< can you comment on the general vibe of the ucla urology department? how are the faculty? do the residents seem happy? thinking about doing an away there
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Someone deleted a helpful advice by current intern for aspiring sub-Is. can we get it back please (row 30 column G)<--- yea, this is fucked up. i cant believe somebody did this +1i feel like people deleted some cells of the AI info sheet tooI took note of OP's advice as I thought it was very helpful. I hope he/she does not mind me reposting. "Current intern here at a top program. We recently had residents' rank meeting of applicants and here are some examples of ways to stand out vs. sink yourself: Stand out: Be engaged, know answers when pimped, be always polite and helpful to everyone (not just residents and attendings), just be a fun person to be with in general. Sink: Be caught sleeping in clinic or OR, act engaged and interested only when attendings are around, do things that we tell you NOT to do (e.g. seeing patients by yourself in clinic, despite being told not to many times), being someone who is doing things to stand out at the expense of other sub-Is (it's obvious), interrupting residents when they are presenting to attending, asking questions to which you already know the answer to (we can tell). In general I've found (both as a sub-I and now as a resident) the most successful sub-Is are ones who focus first and foremost on looking for ways to make other people's work easier or help their day become more efficient, even if what you do is thankless and you think may go unnoticed because a lot of it is "behind the scenes" (trust us, we notice). The annoying sub-Is are the ones who are obviously focused on getting themselves noticed by attendings when they should be working to help the residents and other staff get work done (we notice this too). Example: We really liked a sub-I who spent the time at end of cases helping the nurses put away equipment and clean the floor, while being very sociable with them in a natural way (obviously he was amazing in other respects too, we would never except sub-Is to clean OR floors). Conversely we negatively pointed out a sub-I who spent similar moments sitting at a stool looking at his phone (again other things mattered too, but this did not help). Oh 1 more thing: if you have an end-of-rotation presentation, this is the one instance where everything SHOULD be all about you. Seize your moment, knock it out of the park, do try to be head and shoulders better than everyone else. Practice practice practice, obey the time limit (this is critical), and anticipate questions. <-- everything here is true"The sentiment behind this advice is very true and will lead to success in your aways/subIs, however i dont want future applicants to think that you should do extremely scutty tasks like cleaning the floor after the OR (there are staff for that). Its not always going to come off positively, in fact it can look like you are trying "too hard". I agree that the alternative of sitting on your phone and not paying attention does look bad, but there are other ways to be helpful after an operation like moving the patient, writing the post-op note etc (aka, things that an intern or resident would do). I know its a difficult process but i think its important to maintain a little self respect along the way. < +1 for self-respect
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Thoughts on research year between 3rd and 4th year for "average" applicant? Can it only help? or can it hurt an applicant? +1If you are wanting to pursue a more academic career and thus want to get into a more academic residency, then doing a research year may make you more appealing to those types of programs - if you really take advantage of that year. I don't think it can hurt in applications (unless you take a research year and have very little to show for it), but you have to consider that ever additional year is another year until you are an attending. I would say only do a research year if you are passionate about what you are going to be doing, otherwise programs will smell out application fillers. (but this is just my opinion)Personally did a research year because i wanted a more academic career in mind. Obviosuly it can hurt you if you do not have much to show for your year, but I think it can significantly help your application for multiple reasons beyond just publishing a lot. For me, I was able to attend every grand rounds for my department for the entire year, so I became more familiar with the faculty prior to my Sub-I. Additonally, by working on multiple projects with specific attendings, I think my home LORs were stellar; this was brought up specifically at a few of my interviews. Similarly, I think it helped shape and make my intereviews (particularly at more academic institutions) much more effective. It can be helpful as well if you can win some type of award/ fellowship/ funding (HHMI/NIH/ Internal) that lends some extra cred to your research year as well. Finally, if you make the most of your research yeah, I personally thought it plugged me into more the cutting edge innovations in Uro, which again made me feel much more informed and engaging at more academic interviews. I would also add that many of the abstract deadlines are within a few months of formally strating a research year, and so make sure you have ironed out and have a few projects up and running by the time you officially start, so that you have a chance to submit to AUA, SUO, etc.Research years can only really help you. If you feel the need to take one, do it. Just make sure you publish at least one paper and a few abstracts.
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Did anyone do couples matching with someone in the regular match? If so, what is the best way to go about it?I'm going to try to as well for 2019. Advice we've gotten so far has been similar to the normal couples match, ie shoot for cities with multiple programs, do aways at the same program etc. The only benefit is that the normal match finalizes their rank list after the uro match, so significant others can build their rank list according where you match in uroI went through a couples match this past year and we were advised to apply to big cities and places where multiple programs close by where you could match. Some small things that helped us was just mentioning that we were couple matching when accepting emails (We didn't ask for an interview but just approached it as "fyi"). In probably 70% of my interviews at each program - I brought up that I was in a couples match and I specifically asked the PD how they had done in past years with couples matches. One odd quirk to the apply big city approach - if your SO is a pretty strong applicant, they may have a hard time getting interviews at less big name/community programs so just be aware and don't hesitate to send emails if that is the case Come March 16th, I'll update with my own experience if my pseudo couples match works out!
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If your Step 1 + 2 scores average out to 240, will you still be auto-screened out at some schools for having a <240 step 1 score? probably yes, but who knows, and those are only the very top schools 10-15never heard of places averaging step 1 and step 2. very clearly step 1 is more important. a lot of places have cutoffs of 240 - more than you think +1Where would one find the STEP 1 cut-offs for each program? <Freida <--nop ... freida has them wrong, real ones are not disclosed... except <220... shouldnt be applying urology. chances are very low. but still possible.
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What programs are known for being "family friendly" (i.e. most residents married w/ kids)?mayos, cleveland, Iowa, Arkansas, SIU, Stanford, Nebraska, Utah, UNC, Oklahoma, Vanderbilt, Missouri, Akron, MCW, any program in a small town/city
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In reality, do many people end up double applying to another specialty as a backup? Any advice on why you decided to double apply or not would be much appreciated!I did not but i know a good number of people that did to general surgery<<considered it, but decided to apply for only Uro and reassess mid-october to see if I got enough interviews. Hindsight, I am glad I did not as I think it would have hurt my stamina tremendously, it is quite difficult to apply to 2 programs and keep all the chaos straight. Applied to 10 prelims surg just in case, got 1 interview.probably better to wait- usually you can find something prelim last minute bc your school wants you to match somewhere
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How would you rate the competitiveness of each fellowship?We're just 4th years man, why you asking us about stuff 5 years down the road??? +1 <- lmaoooooIts not quite like internal medicine where there is a top couple of fellowships like cardiology or GI. In urology each fellowship has a ranging level of competitiveness. So you could do onc at a number of places but it is going to be much more competitive for that top onc spot, but probably just as competitive to get the top peds spot.Fellowship in urology is overall not competitive, everyone finds a spot in whatever they want to do. Now as the previous person said, getting a "top" spot will be difficult, but often times there sounds like there is more than enough good training/research to go around. The bottleneck to uro is residency, unlike GI/cardio where the bottleneck is fellowship, hence the competition. Recon>>>Everything else
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What is important in fellowship application?Who you know and how much research you pumped out, and you in-service scores <--- so in service scores do matter? < who you know +1000How would you rate the competitiveness of each fellowship?....first goal is match into residencyInservice scores don't matter at all and are not reported on fellowship applications
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When doing multiple aways, is it taboo to re-use the same topic for your end of rotation presentation?on the off chance you get letters from both aways and they both happen to write about what you talked about, it may make you look a bit like a one trick ponyI didn't have a problem with this. most letters of recommendation write the topic of your talk, so yes I would avoid this
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What is a good enough step 1 score to forego taking step 2 ck until later? Is 240 consider the cut off or is it higher?>235 i think you're safe, most programs have cutoffs in the 230-235 range (the top programs have higher cutoffs of 240-245)Personally I would put the cutoff at 240 or better yet 245. I don't think that any programs have cutoffs above 250.I would say >240. 230s are still a bit iffy unless you have something else going for youWe were told take CK early unless >245.
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If the AUA match is separate from the NRMP match, are there specific AUA match guidelines on the topic of "illegal interview questions"?uhh I don't think so? I mean you will get asked illegal questions, you have to figure out how you want to answer them. They definitely come up throughout interview season. I personally didn't think it was a big deal and just answered. But respond whatever way you feel comfortable. if there are no guidelines for the AUA match, then doesn't that mean there are no off-limit "illegal questions"? <- look, guidelines or not, you will get asked "illegal" questions. Your goal is to match so you'll have to decide whether or not you think that program is worth ranking highly (or at all)I think even if there aren't AUA guidelines dictating so, the questions are still generally considered "illegal." But regardless of terminology, you're going to get asked them. So stop worrying about the terms.a program can ask you, "who will you rank your #1 and why"
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If you had a bad step 1 score (<240) I suggest scoring highly on CK and releasing it; otherwise you will probably have more to lose. Once interviews go out, I don't think programs care about CK aside from ranking
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Looking at the "2018 matched applicant stats" page is perplexing to me. Some people have 260+ step scores, tons of research, AOA and only get 10-15 interview invites. But then other people with much lower stats get 30+ interviews. The only things I can think of that affect this are 1) medical school you attended 2) LOR 3) personal statement. Can these three factors make THAT much a difference in # of interview invites??? <-- I think only 2 of my interviewers out of a billion read my personal statementLORs can make or break an application. Stellar LORs from well known chairs can put you over the top (25+) invites, lukewarm letters can hurt you. Doubt PS plays a role in this. And who writes your LORs can also be a function of the strength of your home program (which can correlate with the name of your medical school). <-- Agree, probably some combination of LORs and/or something else (P on surgery for example) that's not captured in the spreadsheet <-- it was 100% my LOR's that got me >20 interviews with below average scores, I only know because interviewers and residents constantly commented about them during interviews. Work hard on your aways to get those, be inquisitive and helpful without getting in the way, it's all about anticipating needs. Look at the number of programs most of these people with 260+ but 15 interviews applied to, ~50. Guaranteed most of those are the top programs. Top programs are a crapshoot. Some studs are studs and will get everything <-- Maybe, if anything I think rockstar applicants are more likely to get passed over by clinically focused programs that think they are being used a safeties rather than academic powerhouses that are looking for rockstarsalso, where they did their aways can influence location of interview invites, and if they applied to 100 programs vs 50
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I dont have a home program. Freaking out about looking like an absolute idiot on my first sub-i (will be my first urology rotation). Anybody who experienced this same situation and have any tips? <-- be a normal person. Seriously its so important not to be a jerk or an obnoxious gunner. Be helpful to the residents and do everything you can to make their life easier. Know your stuff when asked.Read Weider's pocket guide to urology and crush it just like you did during a surgery rotation <-- Order Weider's early, it takes forever to get to you!There’s really nothing special to aways. Just keep doing what you’ve been doing that’s worked well and work hard. Maybe schedule the program that you’re least interested in first
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Which programs are most known for drawing heavily from their pool of away rotators? Mayo (Rochester) for one <- not necessarily , I don’t think they really prefer their rotators per discussions with the PD On the other hand Penn was pretty open about giving stronger consideration to home/rotators

look at the match list, some programs only took their home/away rotators <-- this can often be just coincidence. for example, a program with a mediocre reputation might be heavily coveted by people who rotate there since they really liked it but others going off of "rankings" or word of mouth might rank the program lower
I think a lot of them do. If they like you, you're a solid known good person for the program. And you can learn a lot more about a person in a month rather than just in a 20 min interview. Just as important as programs that don't: UTSW, Vanderbilt, UCSD to start. Probably also programs that have TONS of ppl.
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Hey 2019 applicants, the AUA is going to hold a webinar on February 26th specifically for 3rd year medical students interested in Urology with advice on how to navigate selecting and applying for away rotations, how to apply for residencies, and how the whole interview and match process works in urology. Here is a link that you can register for the webinar that way it will remind you a couple of days before the weibnar that it is coming up. There will be time at the end of the webinar for any questions. If you have any questions now that you would like the panelists to address, comment here and I will pass those questions onto the committee. https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/1291823196534811649Topics for webinar: When to take step 2 CK? If you had a strong step 1 score and were from a smaller school without a home urology program would it be wise to prioritize an extra away rotation over having an early step 2 CK score? Or do programs prefer to see Step 2 CK? <-- Thanks will pass on this to the panelists for the webinar
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Is it true if you decline away invites (s/p applying to them of course) they won't interview you? Seems risky applying to just one or two institutions for a block. <- depends on program. I turned down an away at a program and still got an interview there.Honestly it is hard to tell, people will say anecdotally that they didn't get invited to places they declined for aways, but I also have heard from people who did get invites after politely turning down an away (for scheduling purposes, in a timely manner, etc). In the end its more important to secure 2 away rotations by overapplying than to underapply and not get any.Definitely happened to me and I’ve heard of it happening to other people +1Hard to say which programs won't invite you based off this but aways for the most part are NOT COMPETITIVE. Just apply early and if you get denied you will have time to apply to another one. I definitely lost two interviews by declining subIs. <-- Take this advice with a grain of salt, some places won't get back to you for months and then by then all the desirable spots will be filled (if you did not end up getting any in your first round). You can try and get a spot for a low-volume month, but I'd assume July-August will fill fast.hard to imagine they keep a list of ppl who decline subIs lol +1, turned down NYU sub-I and got interview, doubt anyone even made the connectionI matched at a program that I cancelled an away with initially. Depends on the program and the situation behind cancelling. Be up front with them and explain the circumstances. I obviously wouldn't recommend cancelling an away if you can avoid it, but it certainly doesn't put you out of the running. I applied for something like 5 or 6 aways because I had no idea how competitive the process was (less than expected fyi), and ended up having to back out of a few. Interviewed at both the programs I backed out from, and I'm not some stud applicant--average step 1 score for uro, not AOA, decent research and some solid letters.
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Any intel on the burden of travel between hospitals & call schedule at UCLA / UCSF? Pretty heavy for both. Definitely a consideration as both cities can have a lot of traffic.
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What are top programs without research yrDepends on region. Yale is a great program without a research year.<--yale is fine up and coming program. not sure anyone would put it on same list as places to right < dude come on, Yale is at or better than a lot of the programs to the right- IU, UNC, Baylor?... please <-- i'm not sure? I haven't really heard that Yale is that great at all. I would def consider IU and UNC to be way better than Yale. To each their own opinion...< For sure we all have our own opinions, so maybe saying that there "isn't anyone" that would put it on par with programs to the right is a bit silly, seeing how there are 2+ people right here that would... just sayin.Michigan, Vanderbilt, UTSW, Indiana, UNC, Mayo, BWH, Baylor, USC, UW 5 year <-- I'd throw in Lahey and NYU <-- I'd take out NYU and throw in Penn<--"program" is tough to define. if you mean surgical training any nyc program is probably out. if you mean prestige of department academic department, NYU probably on that level <-- definitely have heard mixed things about Penn's program where the degree of autonomy you receive is to the point of being detrimental to your training<+1 < what do you mean? <-- He/she means that you operate without supervision which means that though you are autonomous, you are likely also learning incorrect surgical skills <-- Would add Brigham to list of strong programs < would drop Baylor, add YaleHow about WashU? <- yes would definitely include! Residents come out very well-trained, and become very competent very early on
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Impressions on NYP Cornell? Didn't see any info on the Yelp tabCornell is a very good program. Very strong in research (especially if you have any interest in infertility). There is the adage that NYC schools have poor autonomy and to some degree that true here, but they have certainly worked to find rotations that increase the autonomy for the residents. Good group of residents and definitely a prestigious program. Location is either great or horrible depending on if you like big cities - Cornell is Upper East Side of Manhattan. Poor autonomy meaning attendings not letting residents do as much in the OR, or is there another cause? How is the Oncology experience there?I've heard its stricter laws in NYC and more demanding patients so attendings don't let residents do as much. But Cornell now has a couple of rotations in Brooklyn that allows for more autonomy. Onc is solid - one attending does the majority of cases<- can confirm. NYC student here. Residents don't get much autonomy compared to more rural programs (i did aways at such places) but it does vary by program. The less prestigious programs like downstate offer much greater autonomy compared to posh places like Cornell. If you're after autonomy, NYC is probably not where you want to end up... that being said, NYC has much else to offer :P
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1. Any insight on 'top tier' east coast programs? and 2. MGH listed as biggest disappointment in Awards - any particular reasons for this?MGH has 1 robot and they do laparoscopic prostates.... Much more focus on research there then on clinical training. Plus it's this semi-6year program but their schedule is very confusing. Brigham however has excellent clinical training and research so if you are looking for a top tier program in Boston- I would give Brigham a look. Duke and UNC are both phenomenal. Hopkins is obviously top tier. Yale is definitely on the rise. Pitt is very strong clinically if you consider it on the east coast. Haven't heard great things in terms of clinical volume/autonomy for Columbia/Cornell/NYU. <-- volume isnt the issue in nyc programs....its more an issue of autonomy <-- the air at MGH was also... odd. Very much full of themselves and the Harvard name without much substance. <-- Second Brigham and add Lahey<-- Second Yale. Will be one of the top residencies in the country in a few years with the new faculty, deep pockets and great new chair. CCF is another one to consider, though not on the "East Coast" <-- 1+ for Yale super impressiveHopkins? <- Good mix of autonomy and volume; pretty heavy on research. Night float. <- probably the best balance of autonomy, research, prestige, location, lifestyle. Can't have it all with any program, but Hopkins comes pretty close. <- When you ask attendings about Hopkins they generally say two things: “they have made a bunch of the department chairs” and/or “they are very intense there.” From interviewing there, they do have high expectations for residents. <- Hopkins believes they are the best and focus alot on how you are going to change the field of urology during your residency through research, so you have to want to do a lot of research if you want to go there. <- Hopkins has a lot to offer, but I do not believe the residents have a lot of autonomy. Most big cases are double scrubbed with the attending and the fellow scrubbed in the whole time in addition to residents +1
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Are you guys aware how many schools won't look at an application from a non-US citizen that is graduating from a US medical school? I heard some programs don't sponsor visas and have been asking around but am not sure how common that is.<-- sorry, don't know about this. But it might be in your best interest to call programs individually and ask< the majority won't look at your app. you will need to contact all programs individually and only apply to those that will consider you. it may only be ~20 programs. Apply to all of them and cross your fingers <-- this is not true. I have a friend who is a non-US citizen and graduating from US med school and he did great in the match. Had plenty of interviews.
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what are examples of solid mid-tier programs?Temple, UF, VCU, Carolinas, U of Rochester...many moreHouston Methodist is probably considered a mid-tier but I was very impressed by themMCW, SIU, Rutgers RWJ, Stony Brook, Penn State(PSU mid-high tier as they are expanding quickly and unbelievably busy)
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Can anyone comment on their aways at Mt Sinai? It is my dream/reach program but I heard they have too many students (10+) at once and it's difficult to get noticedive heard the acting internship sucks but the program is greatDidn't they have an unmatched spot?
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can anybody share their experience applying with a step 1 of 230-235? did you think it affected your invites compared to other candidates, in your opinion? how confident should someone in this position feel, looking back on your own experience?If that is the weakest part of your application, you can still do well! It depends, you just have to be realistic with it. I had a score in that range and ended up with 30+ interview offers with some from top programs, but I also think that I had good research experience and I suspect that I also had some great letters to offset my step score. If you can, sit down with your PD and have a frank discussion with them about your application and where they think you stand. They can be a wonderful resource for you moving forward. If this is truly the weakest part of your application, there's still hope! I just don't think there are too many of us with these scores who are vocal on threads like these, so it's tough sometimes. That being said, unfortunately 240+ is the "magic" number and certain programs will automatically screen you out based on your score, so be prepared for that as well! <-- +1 with personal experience. it is basically mandatory to make up your score with ample research AND stellar letters. otherwise, the field is stacked with people who have >240 and you will be very quickly screened out. it's very doable, but you really have to want it. <-- how much research did you have? <-- I'm an applicant with < 230 and recieved 28 offers and MATCHED at my #4! Helps if you go to a top tier med school. <- Do good research and shine on the aways, you'll be fine<- this is atypical.. i know a few people that applied with low 230s and had <10 interviews. Still possible to match but will be tough. Build up your research and get great LORs to offset this. If you love urology its always worth a shot :)<- Agreed. 30+ interviews is definitely a lot. Don't lose hope, but research would be helpful. Do extra research, choose your aways carefully at programs that like to take residents from their away rotator pool, bite the bullet and apply to pretty much all the programsTake Step 2 early and destroy it. I had a 230's Step 1 score, did very well on Step 2, and all anyone commented on was my Step 2 score. Had >20 interview offers. Alternately, if you don't think you will crush step 2, don't take it and rely on strong research, great aways, and strong LORs. These can take you far.I had a score <225 and was able to match fairly comfortably, but not at my top choice. Don't get me wrong - I did not crush the interview trail at all, I scraped together 10 interviews only. that being said you need come to grips with the fact that you are competing against super stars from your and other med schools, people who are not only AOA but also score 250+. So no matter how well you interview, that a bad step 1 can be a red flag. I'm not sure 230-235 is a red flag but still try to have two good letter writers, do well step 2ck (at least a 245), and have 3+ pubs under your belt
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Advice on aways? Im an average-ish applicant-244 step with a small amount of research. Go to medschool in Southeast. Am I better off trying to do my 2 aways in 2 different areas at average programs, or do 1 away at a big name program far off and 1 at an average program close to home that I would have a decent chance of matching at. I dont want to regionally isolate myself, but I also want to do my aways at places I have a good chance to match at. If any of you have had great experiences at your aways, then id be glad to hear about it. Thank yall so much!240+ gets you through the door at most places so don't worry about that. where do you want to match? If you want to stay in the SE, do your aways there. I'd focus on one higher-ish tier program to get a letter from and a second program that you have a solid chance of matching atIt's true that letters are extremely important and should definietly be taken into consideration when picking aways, but I just want to reiterate some advice that's already been given on here that I think is really valuable: "rotate at programs that you're genuinely interested in, regardless of prestige. Your home and aways are your best shot at matching so make them count." !I agree, rotate at places you would be happy to match at! I would also recommend rotating somewhere that has a strong preference for rotators (not all programs do). Rotating at a reach/dream program will give you a shot at matching in a program that might not otherwise notice you, in addition to strong letters and opening doors for you at other high tier programs.second the part about rotating at programs that take their own rotators...some programs don't even interview all their rotators. also don't go to a program that takes 10+ rotators unless you are very confident you will stand out, often you get "lost in the crowd" and hard to be 'exceptional'
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Advice on when to apply for away rotations? I heard VSAS opens on January 22nd this year, but that the 2018/19 catalogue may not be in at that time. Is it different for every institution?
Figure out where you want to apply to early and submit apps asap. The sooner you know the better, but be aware that canceling an invitation or canceling after accepting can lead to you not getting an interview at that school. <- I doubt they would hold this against you...I think they understand that schedules are crazy and not everyone can get their sub-i's to line up how they planned. -> Every school accepts applications at a different time so plan your submissions accordingly <- programs DEFINITELY hold it against you if you are offered an away and you turn it down. I turned down 2 that I would have been compettive for and was not offered interviews at either program during the cycle +4 <-- you have no way of knowing the reason for this was bc you turned the sub i down.... <-- yeah I turned down 2 away rotations and got interviews at both of them. Don't apply to 20 and then turn down 18, but it happens if you apply to 3 and have to turn down 1. Also, I wouldn’t worry about sending out a ton of applications. I applied to more aways than I could do and ended up canceling 2 - I ended up not getting interviews at those programs come application season +1Also, don't freak out and send in more applications just because you haven't heard back from places yet. I would say that I heard back from both of the programs I did rotations at 3-6 weeks before the rotation started.Agreed, timing for applying to aways is tricky becasue ideally you wouldn't have to turn any down. My advice would be to apply to 1-2 that you REALLY want, and 1-2 programs that would be good for you, but not the end of the world if you had to turn down (and then subsequently possibly not get an interview from). I realize this is tough when every interveiw is precious. But I think most people were offered away positions at the places they applied to, especially if they applied early. And I've heard of some people who ended up calling up a program pretty last minute and just asking if they could come, so consider that for a back up plan as well. For what it's worth, I turned down two sub-I's because they got back to me after I had already accepted other sub-I's. I still got interview invitations to both. So I think it just depends.
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Any advice on what months to try to schedule aways and home institution sub I's? <-- try and do home sub-I in May/June, and aim to do 2 away rotations between July-September. Preferably do your last one in August so you can have the letter in before ERAS is due on 9/15.Do your home Sub-I first and ask the residents and attendings for feedback. Your away rotation is an audition so make sure you are on your A game the entire month. Letters of rec are super important in urology, ideally go somewhere you want to land for residency that also has a big name in urology. If you're hoping to get letters from your aways, do not take them later than August so that you have enough time to get the letters in by the opening of ERAS.<--disagree. September aways can be very useful too because you still can get a letter for ERAS and you are fresh in the minds of the people at that institution. I know multiple people who have matched at September away institutions. Keep in mind that ERAS applciations were due 9/15. Just try to avoid having a rotation when interview invites start rolling in because you have to respond to those asap to secure a spot, especially on your preferred date <-- +1 Yes, I was on an away and it made it very stressful. I have to have OR nurses check my phone for me every time I got an emailone mistake I made was to not ask for a 4th letter during september. do it, you only need 3 to be safe in before 9/15 .. but that 4th one can be in any time before your interview.
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Anything you know about aways now that you wish you knew as an M3? I plan on doing mine in the Southeast so any help on programs would be of appreciation alsoMy advice would be to rotate at programs that you're genuinely interested in, regardless of prestige. Your home and aways are your best shot at matching so make them count. +100Just general advice: work as hard as you can on your aways. It's just a month to show that you're gonna be an amazing resident and even if you don't go to the program, to get a strong letter. Be the first one in, last to leave etc.. Letters are really important in urology and a strong letter will get you really far. <-- Put in a lot of effort and try, but also don't be a gunner. Most people in uro/uro programs are not gonna be super into that +3 You're not there to "outshine" the other away rotators. You're there to learn, to be a team player, and to contribute in a way that gets the residents home sooner (i.e. help write notes, DC summaries, etc.)I wish I knew if they offered interviewed on site during that month. it matters because many, many program interview dates overlap. Investigate your away rotations heavily before you invest in going to them. Some rotations are at no fault of your own, horrible experiences due to either disorganization or just pure malignancy. I had one away that i absolutely loved. I worked really hard and was there literally longer than some of the residents on most days but everyone was very upbeat and was invested in my future success in the match. On the second away, I felt like they were hazing me non-stop and the residents were generally miserable.Also I was advised to do my two aways in two separate geographic regions. If you do everything in the southeast, you may only get interview offers from the southeast, because the northeast/midwest/west won't think you are very interested in their programs. For Southeast, UVA is an AMAZING place to do an awayI think this advice is really good, especially the list of things that can "sink" you. But in the end of the day, I think its important to be yourself and try to enjoy the rotation and the new city you are living in - for the sake of your own sanity.
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When would you recommend taking step 2 ck/cs if you're happy with your step 1 score?Late enough that it doesn't show up on your application but early enough (esp for CS) that you can retake if you end up failing for whatever reason so that you don't have to delay the start of intern year. Alot of times your school will give you a deadline of when you have to take them too Depends on your school. For CK, some schools give time to take it after third year and a deadline to take it by, so it might make sense just to use that study period. If you're legitimately concerned about not doing solidly, then postponing is reasonable because programs don't care about it.

For CS, once again depends on if your school has a deadline, but if it does, I'd say do it before October so that it doesn't interfere with interviews. If no deadline, just do it in 2019
I took CK at end of November and CS end of June. If your schedule affords it, taking CS during spring break of MS3 is eminently feasible. Sure you lose the break, but that week is plenty of time to prepare for the exam (just read through First Aid for CS), take it, and not have to worry about during MS4. Something like 50% of my class did this to no ill effect. Look at a specific years CS reporting schedule. You want to give yourself enough time that you can take the exam, get your score, and reschedule before the end of December if you fail. My School has to certify applicants for the NRMP match and threatened that they would not certify us if we didn't have our scores in by the end of January or February. Furthermore, taking CS later than december puts you at risk of not getting your score back before graduating. TL;DR get this exam done with. +1 wish I had known thisI would take CS ~ October - after aways, but before interviews really kick in. I was lucky enough that CS worked out geographically during interviews, but I also hadn't talked to a patient in 2 months and would have rather gotten it over with earlier. I had friends who took CK after they matched and they were fine. I took it end of December, so I had ~ 3 weeks to study after interviews were over. Agree with previous comments: Get CS over with early; take CK whenever.I recommend taking CS immediately after 3rd year or at the end of third year. You are most fresh in how to do H&Ps and come up with differentials for all specialties because you have done so many OSCEs. You truly don't need to prep more than a few days to a week for this exam. Take it ASAP and then forget about all of it during your aways. Take your time with CK - meaning take it after your aways and before interviews start (what I did) or in January. I would take it sooner rather than later because it's just easier when you remember things and don't have to study. Also your motivation drops notably after away rotations and just gets worse with the exhaustion of interviews. +1 on the motivation part..
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Is there such thing as a more competitive/prestigous urology program VS less prestigous program? I ask this because I am a DO applying to the AOA match. I am pretty much applying to the "less prestigious" programs as ranked per doximity b/c I feel like I would have the highest chances at these places. Is my methodology correct? Or are all programs more or less equally competitive?Yes. There are definitely "tiers" of urology programs (i.e Baylor/UCSF are on different levels) but all in all, there are no "bad" urology programs (since there are so few), just better ones than others. It's very rough for DOs from what I've heard on the trail. I would suggest focusing on the historically DO friendly programs such as Drexel or MD programs that have taken a DO in the past. Focus on historically DO programs - some of them still want to take DOs because of their past. Hard for DOs to get interviews at traditionally MD programs. DO applicant here who matched to a former DO program but know of a few DO candidates that matched at MD programs. Honestly, don't sell yourself short. You never know who may take you so if you have the finances to apply more broadly, do so. It really can't hurt if they reject you. By not applying in the first place, you've limited your options... Yes it's tough as a DO to get into those programs, but not impossible. I echo LOR go a long way. If you have access to a PD or faculty at an MD instutiion use them. If not, work with what you have. Just make sure all of your LOR are glowing. They go a long wayThe doximity rankings are pretty arbitrary
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Which programs like a super high step1, if it is known?almost every urology program lol. <--i meant like autointerview 270+ or something like that <— look on FREIDA, they have the step 1 cutoffs if a program utilizes oneThat's not a thing I've ever heard of. If you have a 270+ but your letters of recc aren't good, then you won't get interviewed. There are a few programs that have a 245 cut-off (UChicago?), but 240 is more common. <-- definitely not UChicago... I interviewed there below a 245Demonstrate a genuine interest in urology (exposure, research, Sub-I's etc). Step scores help get you in the door at a lot of places, but a lot of top programs are willing to overlook high step scores in favor of well rounded applicants.
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Which programs interview their away rotators?yo check the Away Sub-i info tab
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Anyone have experience with submitting letters after ERAS deadline? I currently am planning on doing my home AI as preparation before my "presitgious institution for a letter away", but I would be finishing that away on 9/25. Should I do that away before my home AI to get the letter before ERAS closes? I'm also very strongly considering my home institution for residency.It is probably variable - so some insitutuions download your application on the first date they can (this year was 9/15) and they don't update it. So I had one letter that my letter writer submitted 9/16 and I uploaded it the same day - it was 50/50 the programs that have it. You can send an email alerting them to a newly uploaded letter (I didn't because it was a 4th letter). I had one submitted late september and emailed the programs I was very interested in to make sure they had received it. Worked well.
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Did class rank seem to be a major factor at all?I have heard this is not nearly as important as scores and letters<-- AOA more important!
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Thank You to all the 2018 folks for responding and maintaining this. Seems far better than past years! <-- +1, ++1
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Anyone have experience with doing 2 weeks/2 weeks aways at two close (geographically) institutions instead of 4 weeks at one? I ended up matching at a program that I spent 2 weeks rotating at. If you do well enough, 2 weeks is enough Thanks!
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Anybody apply with a step score less than 225, what are the chances of matching?I did it, it's hard, you will barely get 10 interviews. Have a good research base and good LOR to back you. But it's totally possible. If it helps I had 7 published articles and had pretty good grades too
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Anybody from Midwest know anything about William Beaumont vs. Wayne State? I'm a Texan and have family up there, so residency there is an option.Don't know anything about Wayne State but I've heard amazing things about William Beaumont from both my PD and those that did away rotations there. WB is a solid program, they operate a lot, and apparently a hidden gem! I heard from a home student that WSU is a disaster right now. <-- my wife went to wayne state for undergrad and it was a mess then as well
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Is not starting research until 3rd year enough time to get meaninful research in?Definitely!
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Any advice on what programs are looking for in the VSAS away AI personal statement? No idea but I wrote about why I wanted to do urology and why that school in that particular area was a good fit for me and got accepted. I did an away at a place that required a personal statement and the PD told me that the reason he likes them is that he wants to know why you want to go to that insitution specifically. They look for rotators who will be a good fit and a strong shot of matchnig there in the future so they use that essay to guide their decision making.
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Any advice on how to judge "volume" and "autonomy?" How many average major cases a week should a senior resident be doing to be considered enough and/or average? Anyone have examples (not even including specific places) of different amounts of volume/autonomy to look out for on my sub-Is to compare places?Ask students who rotated there. Otherwise everybody will say they have autonomy
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What programs do not use VSAS/VSLO? How do I apply for an away rotation at those places? For example, I am interested in doing an away at Lahey clinic but they are not on VSAS and have no info on their website regarding this. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Lahey is the hospital for Tufts, so the application would be through Tufts (looks like they don't open their application for submission until May though)Mayo is not in VSAS as well
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If you had a fail from first year of med school, how much does that hurt you considering every other part of your application is good?Just know how to sell it in your personal statement and then during the interviews
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Any word on if Cook County accepts MD students now? It has historically been a DO programJust accepted an MD this year<-Thanks!
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Super interested in uro, but unsure of chances. M3 with 241 step 1, top 25 med school, but no uro research. Have 11 ortho pubs published (8 on pubmed, 3 not out yet). What are my chances?/How can I increase them? I'm thinking of getting uro research stat for starters.
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