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Vote ban or do not ban. Make your vote clear and provide reasoning.5genApagogieczimkayS1nn0hC0nfirm3dTuthur
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Damp RockBan. Rain has too much variation with sweepers that can slot in and rain is too constricting on the meta. Although I see the argument of banning Ludicolo and then seeing if rain is manageable, I believe the issue is beyond Ludi. Bandnb. I cant ban damp rock in good faith because this feels like overkill on something that is only mildly problematic in the metagame. I already covered all this in my np postBan. Rains been a long time problem in ZU and now with it seeing widespread play rather than niche use, its really showing its true colors with just how over bearing it is. Offensive teams have to rely on scarf cinc and defensive and balance teams have to go out of their way to find entire cores dedicated to just walling out rain. And given just how flexible it is in which rain abusers it can plug and play, it makes the task to have any prep for rain extremely hard. Ban. The power level of ZU’s rain sweepers exceeds the defensive counterplay of most balanced / bo cores. Relying on stall, Kangaskhan, and only a small amount of extra variety to check rain creates a fishy, matchup based metagame. ZU has long struggled with power creep this gen and rain sweepers are no different than other threats banned in the past. A rain ban will foster diversity while allowing council + the playerbase to focus on more controversial Pokemon that could be worth a suspect test. Lastly, rain or semi-rain could still be preserved with Pokemon like Life Orb Ludicolo likely being a good cleaner. Only now post-ban it won’t have the consistent physical partners that make the tier’s Water checks unable to withstand the onslaught of rain sweepers.Ban. Rain teams are overwhelming. There is number of viable rain abusers and while it's hard to have a team able to answer the 3 most common abusers (kabu, qwilfish, and ludicolo), it's impossible to answer every rain variation.
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ShiftryDNB. While Shiftry is super threatening under sun, it has enough available counterplay and there are ways to contain sun in practice (i.e pressuing setters, alt+other soft checks, Pokemon that can trade vs shiftry)DNBdnb. everyone already covered why shiftry is not banworthy because sun is just not a consistent archetype for several reasons. not gonna go deep hereDo not ban. While I see this as only getting better with a potential rain ban and see this being a problem in the future, I can't say its absolutely broken right now as with things like cram, rapidash, and coal giving you a fighting chance against sun and the plenty of priority users in the tier I'd say its managable right now and mostly relies on coin flipping match ups to win. DNB. Sun has continued to be hit or miss from my previous NP post to more recently where I and others lacked consistency. Personally, it tanked my main ladder account during LT hours and I barely managed a ~25% winrate. I’ve also seen little ban support after the hype died down. I think it’s safe to say that sun is not a pressing threat, and instead council may revisit the playstyle after more monitoring.No ban. Sun teams are too inconsistent in my opinion, as outside of Shiftry, the other abusers aren't great. Shiftry is excellent but due to its common weaknesses, it struggles to find set up opportunities imo, and between priorities, hazards, rock helmet chips, and life orb recoil, it needs a lot of stuffs gone before being able to clean.
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