Electric Sun Debate

	A	B	C
1	Debater	Relevant Facts for or against EU Electric Sun Theory - or - Questions for Opponents	References for Relevant Facts

2	Charles	The scope of this debate will be the nature of sunspots, filaments, prominences, and granules.	Scope
3	Charles	For the purpose of this discussion, the term "filament" will be used, even when referring to prominences, since they're the same thing.	Terminology
4	Charles	A filament is a visible charge stream loop in the chromosphere, starting in the photosphere or beneath it.	Fact: http://dsc.discovery.com/space/gallery/space-images/sun-solar-loop-625x450.jpg, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBoI6PyNcJc
5	Charles	A solar filament is not part of a current between the Sun and the galactic arm.	Charles' Theory
6	Charles	Filaments are currents responding to adjacent areas of opposite electric charge in the photosphere.	Charles' Theory
7	Charles	The currents generate magnetic fields.	Charles' Theory
8	Charles	These magnetic fields then are what are measured from Earth, or satellites.
9	Charles	There is a charge separation mechanism in or below the photosphere.	Charles' Theory
10	Charles	Opposite charges in vertical high speed plasma jets starting below the photosphere generate opposing magnetic fields, which cause charge separation.	Charles' Theory
11	Lloyd	Does each filament loop start out as a plasma jet from below the photosphere?	Question
12	Charles	Each loop connects the poles of what started out as one plasma jet that was split into positive and negative components.	Charles' Theory
13	Charles	It's also theoretically possible, and visually believable, that a loop might connect the positive pole of one stream with the negative pole of another, resulting in a complex and high-dynamic interaction among various components of various plasma jets.	Charles' Theory
14	Lloyd	What causes plasma jets to shoot up through the photosphere at extreme velocity?	Question
15	Charles	Thermonuclear explosions at or near the surface will produce solar flares. Similar explosions deeper down will produce plasma jets that will reach the photosphere with less energy, forming sunspots and smaller coronal mass ejections. Explosions even deeper, or smaller in size, will produce plasma jets that will erupt in granules.	Charles' Theory
16	Lloyd	When "high speed plasma jets form opposing magnetic fields", why don't the opposing magnetic fields cancel out?	Question
17	Charles	Opposing magnetic fields WILL cancel each other out, resulting in zero net field in the overlap zone, but they will exert back-pressure on the magnetomotive force, causing it to move. For example, if opposing magnetic fields ONLY canceled each other out, electric motors wouldn't work, because the opposing fields would just cancel each other out, and nothing would happen. What DOES happen is the magnetic pressure exerts force, and the armature spins, even against the resistance of whatever work is being performed by the motor.	Charles' Theory
18	Lloyd	Do you know of any webpages that show how high speed plasma jets cause charge separation?	Question
19	Charles	No. This part of the construct was derived entirely from first principles.	Charles' Theory
20	Lloyd	Are the positive and negative charges in the plasma stream separated into separate streams?	Question
21	Charles	Yes. The positive and negative components of the plasma jet will have different physical characteristics. The positive stream, composed of atomic nuclei, will have mass and inertia, and will burrow through the surrounding plasma. The negative component, composed of electrons, will flow through the surrounding plasma, due to the high conductivity of plasma at that temperature.	Charles' Theory
22	Lloyd	Or are they separated into tubular double layers, one tube inside the other?	Question
23	Charles	Either configuration is possible. Opposite-polarity sunspots are two tubes, one positive and the other negative. Granules are a positive core with a negative sheath around the outside, where the "loop" is a tip-to-sleeve current in a hemi-toroidal configuration.	Charles' Theory
24	Lloyd	The photosphere consists of tall, largely vertical plasma vortexes, called granules.	Fact
25	Charles	I agree that granules appear to be the tops of vertical plasma streams.	Charles' Theory
26	Charles	I disagree that they are necessarily vortexes. I don't know of any evidence of granules being vortexes, and there is only sparse evidence of large sunspots having (sometimes) a weak rotational component.	Charles' Theory
27	Lloyd	Do the plasma jets shoot up between granules?	Question
28	Charles	The atomic nuclei shoot up the center, and then splay outward (due to hydrostatic pressure), while the negative sheath curls inward from the outside.	Charles' Theory
29	Charles	This explains the "faculae" on the sides of granules. When viewed head-on, granules are relatively consistent in brightness across the top, with dark regions separating the granules. But when viewed from the side, there are much brighter streaks coming up the sides of the granule. These are proposed to be negative charge streams interacting with positive charges mushrooming outward at the top of the granule.	Charles' Theory, http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/sol_10_13/sol04.jpg
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31	LLOYD:	CAN WE REPLACE THE ABOVE WITH THE FOLLOWING? Or can you answer the new questions below?
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33	LLOYD:	Why don't these opposing magnetic fields cancel out?
34	CHARLES:-THEORY	Each loop connects the poles of what started out as one plasma jet that was split into positive and negative components.
35		A loop might also connect the positive pole of one split stream with the negative pole of another.
36		This would result in a complex and highly dynamic interaction among components of different neighboring plasma jets.
37		Thermonuclear explosions in or below the photosphere cause the plasma jets to shoot up through the photosphere at extreme velocity.
38		Near-surface explosions produce solar flares.
39		Deeper or smaller explosions produce weaker plasma jets, forming sunspots and small coronal mass ejections.
40		Still deeper or smaller explosions produce the weakest plasma jets, the photospheric granules.
41	LLOYD:	What would cause the thermonuclear explosions?
42	CHARLES-FACT:	No webpages or sources are known that would show how high speed plasma jets cause charge separation.
43	THEORY:	Opposing magnetic fields cause positive and negative charges in the plasma stream to separate into separate streams.
44		The positive stream of ions, having greater mass and inertia, burrow through the photosphere.
45		The negative stream of electrons flow through the photosphere, due to the high conductivity of plasma at that temperature.
46		Opposite-polarity sunspots are two tubes side-by-side, one positive and the other negative.
47	LLOYD:	Do you mean opposite charge polarity or opposite magnetic polarity sunspots?
48	CHARLES-THEORY:	A granule has a positive core with a negative sheath around the outside, tubular double layers, one tube inside the other.
49		The "loop" is a tip-to-sleeve current in a hemi-toroidal configuration.
50	LLOYD:	What loops are you referring to and can you explain that statement better?
51		The photosphere consists of tall, largely vertical plasma tubes called granules?
52	CHARLES-THEORY:	Yes, granules appear to be the tops of vertical plasma streams.
53	FACTS:	I don't know of any evidence of granules being vortexes
54		There is only sparse evidence that large sunspots sometimes have a weak rotation.
55	THEORY:	The positive plasma stream shoots up through the center of a granule.
56		Then hydrostatic pressure causes the stream to splay outward.
57		The negative sheath curls inward from the outside.
58	LLOYD:	Can you present a diagram of the negative sheath curling inward or explain it better?
59	CHARLES-THEORY:	These negative sheath curls are the faculae on the sides of granules.
60	FACT:	Granules are relatively consistent in brightness across their tops, with darker regions between granules.
61	THEORY:	Viewed from the side, there are brighter vertical streaks on the sides of granules.
62		These bright streaks are negative charge streams interacting with internal positive charges.
63		The streams mushroom outward at the top of the granule.
64		See http://cache.boston.com/universal/site_graphics/blogs/bigpicture/sol_10_13/sol04.jpg.
65	LLOYD:	Why are granules all about the same height and why are they so different from flares etc? Looks like your website answers that pretty well.
66		Where plasma streams mushroom out at the tops of granules, are the opposite charges recombining?
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69		Do the next three lines answer your concern about the need for capacitance on the Sun?	Question for LATER
70		- Inside planetary nebulae are one or more plasma sheaths, or double layers, that act like capacitors, alternately storing and releasing electrical energy.	2/10/2011 TPOD
71		- The current flow alternately increases and decreases within the sheaths
72		- Because plasma in laboratory experiments forms cells of opposite charged double layers, it is probable that these also occur in nebulae.
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