Q&A Report Session 19.xlsx

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1	Question Report Session 19 Eastern Hemisphere
2	Report Generated:	11/24/22 3:24
3	Topic	Webinar ID	Actual Start Time	# Question
4	Short Course 19: Overhung Process Pumps – Part 2 – Vertical Overhung Process Pumps ( Eastern Hemisphere )	816 2538 0423	11/24/22 1:48	51
5	Question Details
6	#	Question	Asker Name	Answer
7	1	What could be the stuffing box pressure in OH3 pump?	Anonymous Attendee	With the most common Plan 11 seal piping plan, stuffing box pressure will be approximately suction pressure plus 10% of differential pressure. Other piping plans can raise this pressure if necessary
8	2	I asume the Shell preference for the direct mounted shaft pump is the lower height enabling the removal offshore and in some areas which may have limited height?	John Glaister	Yes that is correct.
9	3	Do you see a preference in general where flow/heads can be met to use the lower peripheral speed pumps, e.g. horizontal where there is space?	John Glaister	The impeller peripheral speed will be essentially the same for an O2 pump as an OH3,4 or 5 pump. The hydraulic design will either be the same or at least very similar. The preference for horizontal pumps is usually "selecting what you are most familiar with"
10	4	I've found many companies don't like the Sundyne Pumps due to high speeds / gear issues and reliability issues	John Glaister	End users either love them or hate them depending on their experience and the familiarity of their maintenance teams with the product. EPC engineers tend to hate them as they do not fit comfortably into most pump specs including API610, API682 and oil company specs. They have lots of comments and clarifications
11	5	A company I worked for preferred verticals but we found that horizontals are favoureed by maintenance and we had lower speeds with horizontals and better NSS fits to the process requirements than was offered on verticals	John Glaister	The OH2 range coverage is better, certainly. More hydraulics (128 vs 22) and more sizes (88 vs 20) available. OH3, 4, 5 pumps are more suited to lower flows and heads. Up to 400m3/hr @ 200m at 50 Hz 2 Pole speed
12	6	when it is available to select either OH3 or OH4 pump, what is the main difference between them for various applications and operating conditions?	Mohamed Ibrahim	OH3 pumps are fully API610 compliant. OH4 pumps and OH5 pumps have some constraints See slide 17 (especially the speakers notes that are included with the slide) and Slide 40
13	7	I'm asking about the pricing criteria you use it right now ?	Anonymous Attendee	Sorry I do not understand the question
14	8	we need a pump with 6500 m3/d and 150 barg wich one is suitable	khaled Chammam	270m3/hr at 150 barg pressure would probably require a multistage pump, probably a BB5 pump. But to give any advice I would need to see the full details of the applications. Send me a data sheet and I can look at it for you.
15	9	Is there any other reason besides reducing plot pump requirements to select OH3-6?	Simon Hudel	Plot size, price of equipment, cost of installation
16	10	What are the prime cause/reason, which make them non-API compliant?	Shyam Kumar	See Slide 17 (especially the speakers notes that are included with the slide) and Slide 40
17	11	Is there a way to see the previous meetings?	Turki Alghamdi	Go to ruhrpumpen.com website and follow the links in the top menu to "Short-courses" You can download many of them from there. Currently 11 courses are there available for download. We will be adding more. Alternatively contact your local Ruhrpumpen sales engineer who will be pleased to help you.
18	12	For higher head low flow pumps, what type of impellers you are using i.e open barske type or closed impellers	Aamir Hasnain	High head low flow will usually be a Barske type impeller
19	13	how can we get access to the previous sessions ?	khaled Chammam	See No 11 above
20	14	What is that great that other manufacturers are not able to design OH6 Pumps. Only, Sundyne is the world leader. Kindly advise.	Kanchi Jha	It is not a huge market for this very niche product. Developing a product would be very expensive for probably not a huge return on the investment.
21	15	Could you please explain how inducers can increase the NPSHa	Anonymous Attendee	Inducers are a special design of impeller that help the flow into the eye of the main impeller. They reduce the NPSHR of the pump. Generally they work best at their design flow and are not so effective away from that flow. Modern designs have improved no-end over the mid 20th century designs. However they are still not readily accepted by end users and engineering contractors. For a better understanding of NPSH see Short Course No 5 which is available for download from Ruhrpumpen.com website
22	16	pleace, send me an email for the next meeting - julian.hecker@bayernoil.de - thank you for your support - i appreciate it	Julian Hecker	You will receive an invitation. Thanks for attending today
23	17	Is only foot print the prime criteria to select OH3 vs OH2?	Shyam Kumar	Plot size, price of equipment, cost of installation. See also No 5 above (about available range)
24	18	You mentioned that these pumps, they do not have to be bolted down. Is this common? Any pros or cons? Are there any "dangers"?	George Paradissis	Smaller sizes are frequently not bolted down. This allows the pump to move with expansion and contraction of the piping. Larger heavier pumps would often be bolted down. It would all depend on the structural analysis of the whole system
25	19	can we operate a reciprocating pump sharing the same inlet with a centrifugal one ? are there any specific consideartions ?	khaled Chammam	This would need detailed study. We would need to see the full details of the application to be able to offer advice.
26	20	Will certificate of attendance for this webinar be shared? Thank you.	Anonymous Attendee	Send an email requesting this to info@short-courses.ruhrpumpen.com
27	21	When we can use OH1/OH4/OH5 non-API pumps in Oil & Gas/LNG project	Shyam Kumar	See Slide 17 (especially the speakers notes that are included with the slide) and Slide 40
28	22	It was the offerings we got fro the vendor ranges but I see your point Simon thanks	John Glaister
29	23	Are the inducers recommended by API 610 ?	Ghachi Sami Riadh	API 610 does not commit either way. Modern designs of inducer have improved no-end over the mid 20th century designs. However they are still not readily accepted by end users and engineering contractors. For a better understanding of NPSH see Short Course No 5 which is available for download from Ruhrpumpen.com website
30	24	You're right, we got a mix of various pole motors, it was just the mix we had, but thank you for the clarifications	John Glaister
31	25	no base plate for these pumps.. is it required to mount at the bottom?	Girish Palo	See No 18 above
32	26	Please repeat or display the email address for the training team	Tebogo Moloto	info@short-courses.ruhrpumpen.com
33	27	OH2 vs OH3, do they have comparable mean time between failure? I mean, do they have same reliability?	George Paradissis	Yes when correctly selected for the right applications. But not every OH2 duty can be covered by an OH3 pump The OH2 range coverage is better. More hydraulics (128 vs 22) and more sizes (88 vs 20) available. OH3, 4, 5 pumps are more suited to lower flows and heads. Up to 400m3/hr @ 200m at 50 Hz 2 Pole speed
34	28	are there special requierements for testing oh5? how about vibrations?	mila antunez	Same testing procedures and requirements as other API610 pumps
35	29	Can you confirm the maximum allowable operating temperature for an OH5 pump. And is it dependant on motor type.	Findlay MacLeod	Temperatures up to 450 deg C. But yes at higher temperatures motor design will be affected.
36	30	Muff coupling is standard rigid coupling for all OH4 pumps?	Bhushan Narvekar	Yes
37	31	If you fix OH3 pump with bolts in base plate, is there thermal deflection of casing expected specially where pump is installed outdoors in high ambients?	Aamir Hasnain	The whole idea is that it is designed to move with the pipework as it expands, contracts and flexes. The casing is designed to take twice the API610 Table 5 forces and moments.
38	32	its sea water	khaled Chammam
39	33	Could you please explain how inducers can increase the NPSHa	Anonymous Attendee	Se No 15
40	34	A particular interesting topic could be pump modifications such as de-staging of BB5's and re-bundling	John Glaister	Thankyou. I will look into that
41	35	Thank you sir..great session..	Sathya suthavani Chandrasekaran	My pleasure
42	36	What is the main disadvantage of using these vertical overhung pumps?	Stijn Peeters	They are great when correctly selected for the right applications. But not every OH2 duty can be covered by an OH3 pump The OH2 range coverage is better. More hydraulics (128 vs 22) and more sizes (88 vs 20) available. OH3, 4, 5 pumps are more suited to lower flows and heads. Up to 400m3/hr @ 200m at 50 Hz 2 Pole speed Avoid extremes of temperature and pressure
43	37	As you told about floating type in OH3, can the same be followed in largest 2.5 tonne pump? What about the load & vibration in pipes?	Vineeth	The whole idea is that it is designed to move with the pipework as it expands, contracts and flexes. The casing is designed to take twice the API610 Table 5 forces and moments. Obviously every installation has to be considered structurally.
44	38	Compared to OH2 pumps?	Stijn Peeters
45	39	what are the OPEX cost difference between Oh2 and OH3 and if the space is not a issue what is there any other benefit choosing OH3?	Ibrahim Bektas	Opex will be about the same
46	40	Thank you for this informative presentation.	Farid Seddiki	My pleasure
47	41	For revamp project, we are revising operating point from earlier selected rated point. Based on the new duty, other parameters per API design code will change (like Qrated/bep, HRSO-head rise to shut-off etc.), whether we can use the same pump or have to select new one?	Shyam Kumar	Contact the original pump supplier with details of the new duty. He will be able to advise if the pump can be retrofitted (perhaps a different impeller in the same casing (a "retrofit kit"))
48	42	Which proposal is better for pump, one with orifice or another with inducer?	Shyam Kumar
49	43	For single operating pump, will 2 to 3% of HRSO be acceptable for revamp job?	Shyam Kumar	I would say (without having the full details in front of me) that a 2-3% HRSO will not be satisfacory. A tiny variation in system head will lead to huge variances in flow. You might like to download Short-Courses 2 (Curve shape) and 3 (the Importance of System Curves) from the Ruhrpumpen website Or better still contact your local Ruhrpumpen sales engineer.
50	44	Thank you, very informative session !	Vineeth	My pleasure
51	45	Do you have any Pump selection software? Can we get free access to the software, it will help us to select Pump in proposal stage.	Gobinda Sarkar	Yes we do. Go the Ruhrpumpen.com and follow the link to "Select Your Pump" in the top menu
52	46	The methodolgy you use to estimate the pump price ?	Hassan Khalil	Sorry I do not understand the question
53	47	Thanks.	Gobinda Sarkar	My pleasure
54	48	Thanks again I've to jump to another meeting	Farid Seddiki	My pleasure
55	49	In order to meet desing duty, vendor proposed to different model, one with orifice and another with inducer, flow-64.8m2/hr, head-136.1m, NPSHA-7.7m	Shyam Kumar	Without the full details of the problem and the proposed solutions, I could not possibly comment. I would suggest you discuss the solutions in detail with the current pump supplier. If you are not happy with his answers then contact your local Ruhrpumpen Sales Engineer.
56	50	Great session. Thank you for your time	Ranganathan Elaneera	My pleasure
57	51	Good session Simon. Thank you!	John Glaister	My pleasure
58
59	Question Report Session 19 Western Hemisphere
60	Report Generated:	12/1/22 12:01
61	Topic	Webinar ID	Actual Start Time	# Question
62	Short Course 19: Overhung Process Pumps – Part 2 – Vertical Overhung Process Pumps ( Western Hemisphere )	835 6178 8500	12/1/22 10:45	22
63	Question Details
64	#	Question	Asker Name	Answer
65	1	Are there any advantages in bearing wear or storage requirements versus horizontal pumps in that the radial bearings don't support the weight of the pump?	Anonymous Attendee	Yes this is a possible advantage. But not particularly significant as these are relatively small pumps with light rotors
66	2	What are typical FATs performed on these?	Anonymous Attendee	The same as any other API610 pump
67	3	A view questions to OH6 - Is the volute casing have a double diffuser? - Do you design the inducer according to the specific hydraulic or do you have a standard inducer? - Do your recommend to install a online vibration monitoring or is it an obligatory requirements?	Hisham Neiroukh	I suggest you address these product specific questions to Sundyne. I am far from an expert in OH6 pumps as none of the manufacturers I have worked for manufacture OH6 pumps
68	4	Thanks	Hisham Neiroukh
69	5	Difference between Vertical pumps vs Vertical in line pump ?	vishal dhobale	I do not fully understand the question.
70	6	Are these types of pumps used in cryogenic applications? If so, are there any special aspects?	Anonymous Attendee	Low temperature - yes. Cryogenic no.
71	7	How is the arrangement of oil lubricated bearings with a vertical pump; oil splash does not work?	Jeroen Bolle	Ruhrpumpen uses oil mist lubrication (dry sump) as standard with grease optional. Some manufacturers have an internal pumped system where oil is pumped through a tube and splash lubricates the top bearings
72	8	Is a split mechanical seal recommended by OH4 and OH5?	Hisham Neiroukh	It is not necessary - no. Some seal suppliers may offer them if specifically asked.
73	9	Do the OH3 and similar pumps with larger vertical motors, normally need ribs/stiffeners on the motor base?	Roberto Carmona	Might be necessary on some of the larger pumps depending on the structural analysis of the piping installation. However if you refer to the photos at the end of the presentation you will see some really quite big pumps (2,500kg) where no support feet or ribs or stiffeners were necessary.
74	10	Thanks and Regards	Hisham Neiroukh
75	11	Do the same inlet piping configurations apply to OH3 & OH5 pump types to that recommended for OH2 type?	Antonio Zapata	Yes if you mean the recommended number of pipe diameters of staight pipe before the first bend
76	12	Do you have some expamples of how seal system is arranged with these pumps?	Jeroen Bolle	Piping configurations will be very similar to those in an OH2 pump. Plan 11 and Plan 23 are common for single seals, Plan 53 for dual seals.. With Plan 52/53 the seal reservoir will be supported on a mounting stand adjacent to the pump and the seal piping will be field run rather than factory assembled on the baseplate as is the case with an OH2.
77	13	when are higher RPM i.e. 3600 rpm pumps chosen? instead of 1800 rpm. I heard that lower rpm pumps are more reliable.	Anonymous Attendee	Slower speed pumps will last longer. However 2 pole pumps are smaller, lighter , are less expensive than low speed pumps. If a duty falls comfortably within the performance range of a manufacturer's standard offering you can safely choose that pump. It still has to have a 25 year design life and be able to go three years between overhauls.
78	14	could these vertical pumps work for LNG?	Oscar Ulises Melgar Cruz	No. Minus 50C is the practical minimum temperature. LNG is at Minus 160C and only Elliott Ebara Cryo and Nikkiso Cryo make such pumps for LNG.
79	15	Remark: in your presentation you are referring to the old ATEX.	Jeroen Bolle	Thank-you for pointing it out.
80	16	What is the pump temperature limit for grease lubricated bearings (OH3)?	Antonio Zapata
81	17	The motor bracket with large opening for manual access will not affect the rigidity of the pump with respect to any vibration? also can we make the opening on both sides with increase in thickness of the bracket?	Arun Ranganathan	Every OH3 pump undergoes Natural Resonant Frequency analysis as it is a flexible structure and sometimes running speeds can hit natural resonant frequencies. There are openings either side but one side is larger than the other. The design is to remove the pullout assembly through the larger window. The smaller window is to assist this operation.
82	18	when you are doing a calculation of vertical pump do you have to calculate or consider NPSHA?, basically if we are going to provide data to vendors	Oscar Ulises Melgar Cruz	Every pump size and model will have been NPSH tested at some time so its NPSHR is known and can be guaranteed. Generally if the NPSH margin is less than 1m the customer will require an NPSH test on the contract pump. This is standard.
83	19	If a floating base arrangement is selected, does this cause some torsional stresses on the pipeline, from the rotor's rotation? If so, are any requirements for pipe supports close to the pump location typically made?	Roberto Carmona	Yes. Piping forces and moments will be calculated by the customer structural and piping engineers. API610 Table 5 determines the allowable magnitude of these forces and moments.
84	20	Are hydrodynamic bearings ever used with OH3, 4, 5, or 6 pumps? If so, when and why?	Anonymous Attendee	No
85	21	Thank you Sir, very enjoyable and valuable webinar. Happy Holidays	Roberto Carmona	My pleasure. Thank you.
86	22	Thanks alot for the presntation	Hisham Neiroukh	My pleasure
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