Q&A Report Session 13 East & West.xlsx

	A	B	C	D
1	Question Report Session 7 East
2	Report Generated:	2/17/22 3:32
3	Topic	Webinar ID	Actual Start Time	# Question
4	Short Course 13: Performance Testing & Inspection of API 610 Pumps.	876 3718 9221	2/17/22 1:40	39
5	Question Details
6	#	Question	Asker Name	Answer
7	1	need video recording this event, and certificate of attendance , ruhrpumpen provides a lot of knowledge , expanation and knowledge for me, I will recommend a centrifugal pump for quality is ruhrpumpen	Anonymous Attendee	Thank you for your kind comments. A YouTube link to the Recording of this seminar as well as a PDF vession of the Slides (complete with speaker notes) and the compiled Q&A from both today's sessions will be sent to all attendees. If you need a certificate of attendance please contact our marketing dept at info@ruhrpumpen.com
8	2	Where du you measure NPSH3 on multistage BB5 pumps.. ; do RuhrPumpen draw off pressure after 1st stage impeller..?	Anders Moller	On multistage pumps it is the discharge pressure of the complete pump that is measured and divided by the number of stages. There is no facility to measure only the first stage. Applies to ALL multistage pumps and all pump vendors This is on our standard list of deviations & clarifications to API610 (8.3.4.3.2) and all pump vendors will be the same on this
9	3	What is the consideration for tolerance of shut-off head and head at max. flow point? Is it specified in HI or API610? What is your recommendation on this?	Ugur Erman	Tolerance on shutoff head is specified by API610 (see Slide No 22)
10	4	When it comes to vibration, are monoaxials accelerometers more accurates than triaxials accelerometers?	Carlos Mallo	Our instrument engineer advises as follows "Unidirectional accelerometers are very accurate, they are what we use on our test stands. When we supply accelerometers on pumps we generally supply unidirectional accelerometers in the X & Y directions. Triaxial XYZ accelerometers give optimum results but not as precise Monoaxials have good repeatability and less linear error"
11	5	Is vibration measurement mandatory to a pump performance test?	NIKOS TSAKALIS	Yes for API610 pumps
12	6	thanks for your efforts, it will be highly appreciated to share the presentation if it is allowed, thanks again	Mohamed GUPCO	See No 1 above
13	7	For general water service , which test tolerances shall be followed HI or API	Anonymous Attendee	HI. And probably Grade 2 or 3. You may like to see the HI download referenced in Slide 24 “Understanding the Effects of Selecting a Pump Performance Test Acceptance Grade”
14	8	Thank you very much for useful course. 1. What is the maximum testing power for Tulsa workshop? 2. How to test the pump in case, pump power exceeds testing power and bench dimensions. 3. How to determine minimum submerged distance for vertical pump?	Ahmed MEZENNER	1- Tulsa 2000HP (1500kW); Witten 12,500HP (9300kW); Monterrey 3,000HP (2,238kW) 2- If test stand capacity is exceeded reduced speed testing would be discussed and agreed during proposal stage 3- "Pumpdown Testing" is possible. See Slide 33
15	9	Motor KW shall be based on Duty point demand i.e 110% or 120% of Duty point Or It shall be more than the shutoff head power demand?	Devansh Prabhakar	Motor rating will be defined by the applicable specification. For example API610 Table 12 For parallel Operation the motor will normally be sized for operation across the full operating range of the pump
16	10	At what region on the pump curve the cavitation occurance probability is high?	Mohamed GUPCO	Usually NPSHR is greatest at end of curve (runout). During NPSH testing the full range of the pump is tested from Min Flow to Runout
17	11	Thank you for the training is NPSHa needed for you to calculate NPSHr for the pump	Dele oludare	No. NPSHRequired is unique for each individual impeller and is independent of the NPSH Available
18	12	A general question, could be possible to recieve the previous presentations, since I lost those courses	Giuseppe D'Alò	Please send an email to info@ruhrpumpen.com and request the missing session materials
19	13	Based on your experience when would you recommend to specify complete unit tests? Thank you	Simon Hudel	Complete Unit Tests are very expensive as they require custom setups and tie up test beds for several days or even weeks. I will be discussing this in Session 14.
20	14	When testing a vertical pump, you said that the NPSH test is carried out with only one stage (one impeller). What happen when the pump have a double suction impeller?	Cesar Gil	It would make no difference if it were a single suction or double suction impeller
21	15	can we do a NPSH test for VS pumps installed in a open sump	HEMANTH Sudarshan	No. See Slides 32 & 33
22	16	Always test with water or different type of liquids possible?	Vincent Desmaret	Tests are always carried out with water. The only exceptions to this that I know of are the cryogenic submerged motor LNG pumps made by Elliott Ebara Cryo and by Nikkiso. These have special test loops for testing the pumps in liquid methane!
23	17	for centrifugal compressors I performed surge tests, monitoring the Sub-critical frequencies. Is it done also for the pumps during the NPSHR test?	Giuseppe D'Alò	No this is not a normal requirement
24	18	Does API or HI talk on tolerance at MCF flow ? What is the practical method to determine MCF point ?	Kirit Domadiya	Minimum Continuous Flow is determined by the pump manufacturer. Generally it will be the flow below which the vibration limit (6.5mm/s RMS for API610) will not be met. But there may be other criteria for a particular pump type or size.
25	19	Is reduced length testing for a VS pump allowed by API 610?	Anonymous Attendee	Technically this would require a deviation request
26	20	In case of vessel mounted vertical suspended pump, is NPSH test possible?	Shyam Kumar	Yes if you have a test stand suction vessel with a suitable mounting flange and which is sealed so a vacuum pump can be connected.
27	21	Is there any special test set up/configuration for a low shear pumps which we should be aware of?	Orlando Perez	Not that I am aware. For special (non standard) pumps of any type it is always wise to discuss with the manufacturer.
28	22	how about test for two phase flow pump type ....any similar or different test of general centrifugal pump testing?	Fatkur Rachman	Same answer as No 21 above
29	23	does an API 610 test also covers a (static) hydrotest (usualy to 1.5 times design pressure)?	diederik ross	Hydrostatic test is a separate test from the performance test, carried out much earlier in the production cycle (on completion of the pump casing machining)
30	24	who in RP ensures that the Testfields worldwide fullfill all regulations? Who is responsible to ensure that all instruments are calibrated correctly, renewed, test water qualities, test drivers are still running correct, etc	Anonymous Attendee	Quality Control
31	25	In the pump data sheet, there are thermal and stable minimum flow, how to determine both flows during testing	Ahmed MEZENNER	Thermal Min Flow is a theoretical number based on heat input into a pump running severely throttled. No pump supplier will allow you to ever run at Min Thermal Flow. Bearing and seal damage will happen long before any damage from rising temperature. Most pump suppliers will quote the same flow for both thermal and stable flow in the data sheets
32	26	In case of multistage pump, how is impeller reserve ratio calculated?	Shyam Kumar	It is the same as for a single stage pump. All the impellers of a multistage pump are trimmed identically.
33	27	just last question, probably I lost this info. To perform NPSHR test on vertical pump we must seal the pit and use vacuum pump?	Giuseppe D'Alò	Generally you cannot seal an underground pit for vacuum. You would need a steel pressure vessel. See Slides 32 & 33. Also the photos of the Tulsa test stands show the suction vessels which are sealable pressure vessels
34	28	What is unitization test, is it complete unit test or assembly only?	Shyam Kumar	I am not familiar with the term. It is probably a complete unit test but I vannot say that for sure
35	29	Is there any procedure for performance test with ARC Valve in HI or API610? Do they recommend performing the test with or without the ARC Valve?	Ugur Erman	No. I have never come across testing a pump with an ARC valve. This would be a site test not a pump factory test
36	30	Do you have any guideline to inspect visually pump internals after Performance test? (Bearings, bushings, balance drums, etc)	Carlos Mallo	Yes it is usual to disassemble and inspect a pump after test. Particularly close clearance areas such as wear ring and throat bushings. It is a mandatory requirement for multistage pumps (2 or more stages)
37	31	Is there any difference on previously mentioned procedures for self priming pump?	Ugur Erman	You might want to specify proof of the self priming capability as part of the test.
38	32	There is no strainer in suction side why?	Falah Almaliki
39	33	If the pump to be installed in 50 Hz Plant but the pump is going to be tested at 60 Hz or Visa versa then how you are taking care the testing ? As the variation in speed will be more than 3%. Do you employ the and governing the speed of the pump ? In case if the pump is to be tested with the job motor then how you will take care those testing requirement ? As all the motors are not suitable to run with VFD.	SANKET	Ruhrpumpen and most other large pump suppliers will use VFDs to run the pumps at actual speed regardless of the 50 or 60Hz supply in the factory. Others may ask to run at the equivalent 60Hz (for example) speed and correct by affinity laws for 50Hz running speed. This would have to be agreed at proposal stage as it is a deviation. Testing with the job motor needs to be looked at on a case by case basis. Many considerations. Is it sized for full curve power at SG of 1.0? Has it had a full performace test (Power vs Efficiency Curve)? Or is there a torque transducer available at the test facility?
40	34	Torsional analysis Lateral analysis	Palash Gupta	These analyses are available when requested or specified. They are not part of the performance test. They are separate analyses.
41	35	whether 12 edition will be followed as thats the latest?	Karthikeyan S	Currently most customer specs are still referencing 11th edition but 12th will be followed when specified.
42	36	Does API / HI talk on tolerance at MCF	Kirit Domadiya	No
43	37	string test vs complete unit test any difference?	Karthikeyan S	No they are the same under different names
44	38	Could you give us an brief explanation to "underfiling, overfilling, V-cutting" to correct in case neccesary the performance. In general some CLients does not allow, but It is not celar for me which are this procedures. Thanks in advance	Daniel Fernández Rielves	This is a "Black Art" known to pump hydraulic engineers and test engineers, learned over many years and unique to a particular pump type or size. Underfiling involves removing material from the underside of the impeller vane tips. Overfiling involves removing material from the top side of the impeller vane tips. V notching involves cutting a V into the leading edge of the impeller vane All can have an effect of changing the curve shape slightly. Maybe steepening, maybe flattening, maybe rotating it around BEP (so for example lowering shut-off head and raising runout head) There are no hard and fast rules. Like I say it is a Black Art
45	39	But which is the general difference with trimming impeller?	Daniel Fernández Rielves	Trimming involves only changing the impeller diameter. This is what is done 95% of the time. The other modifications above would be done on a case to case basis and in most cases with customer approval.
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47	Question Report
48	Report Generated:	2/17/22 11:49
49	Topic	Webinar ID	Actual Start Time	# Question
50	Short Course 13: Performance Testing & Inspection of API 610 Pumps.	880 4911 1525	2/17/22 10:44	10
51	Question Details
52	#	Question	Asker Name	Answer
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54	41	I would like to know the best types of pump for low npsh applications?	Ricardo Souza	VS6 vertical canned suction pumps are undoubtedly the best. They can go down to zero NPSHA. Next best would be pumps with a double suction impeller (type BB1 or BB2)
55	42	Based on NPSHA when do you recommend the vacuum suppression method over suction throttling method for NPSH testing	JOHN martinez	If it is available at the particular test facility vacuum suppression method is preferred when NPSH is critical, as it is the most accurate method. The RP facility at Tulsa uses this method. But many factory test facilities only have the suction throttlingmethod available.
56	43	Where's the vacuum pump?	Nathan Little	The vacuum pump is typically installed at the foot of the suction tank and is connected to the air space at the top of the vessel. See photo on the right here >>>>>>
57	44	Thanks.	Nathan Little
58	45	Is PDH certificate available	Amy Gaona	We will send you a certificate of completion for this course (request it from info@ruhrpumpen.com) You can use it to claim PDH credit See the attached regarding PDH credit https://www.schoolofpe.com/blog/2020/05/what-are-pdh-engineering-credits.html
59	46	You mentioned that the flowmeter is placed on the discharge for more accurate results - what's the cause of inaccuracy if the instrument was placed on the suction	Ryan Davies	I am not sure it is any less accurate in the suction pipe. It is just more commonly seen in the discharge pipework.
60	47	Thanks for the presentation. What is the relationship between NPSHR and RPM?	Chuan Zhang	Complicated is the best description! It does not strictly follow the affinity laws. Applying the affinity Laws you would expect NPSH to vary by the Square of the speed change. A closer estimate though would be to use a 1.5 Power rule when going DOWN in speed and the Square Law when going UP in speed. I am seeking a more complete answer from our Hydraulic Engineers and I will expand on it in the next session (Session 14)
61	48	Which type of centrifugal pump is used for large operation. Bright Kosini Nigeria	Bright Kosini	There is no quick answer to this question. We would need to know the full circumstances of what you are pumping, from where to where, flows, heads, elevations, electrical supply etc.
62	49	What is your opinion about witnees the test? remote?	Cristian Flores	I would want to witness testing on critical pumps, especially big expensive ones. Smaller, simpler, low flow, low power applications I would go with non-witness testing. Increasingly pump manufacturers are able to offer remote witnessing by video and Zoom (or similar). A camera in the control room so you can see the readings as they are taken. Another hand held camera carried by the test technician so you can be shown the actual pump on test.
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