| A | B | C | D | E | F | G | H | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | Nominations | Nayrz | Fireburn | Melee Mewtwo | Serial EKiller | Zesty43 | Mysterious M | iry |
2 | Internal Nominations | |||||||
3 | ||||||||
4 | Zygarde: A+ > A | nah zygarde is way too easily supported by partners in the meta and it can force all sorts of bullshit. at worst a drop inside a+ | disagree, very versatille/splasable mon, para spam is a pretty strong strat in the meta rn and zyg is a big part of that because of how dumb glare is | There isn’t a reason for it to drop, really. the hype phase is passed but thats not what put it in a+, its still just a really good pokemon. | hype may have dropped off but its still a dumb strong mon with a stupid amount of subs, setup opps, and dtail/glare. give it an opening (or force one with a teammate like mgar or hazards) and it'll run wild. its other set also helps a lot in patching up ho-oh weaknesses on fat builds | Think it should remain A+ recently the meta seems to have adapted to dd dtail zyg but it still remains extremely versatile and is always adapting to the meta so im sure people will come up with new sets and the meta will once again have to adapt to those allowing for the older sets to be good once again | Agreeing with Nayrz. Versatile mon af, and really splashable on any kind of team. Definately A+ material | disagree. just because the hype wore off doesn't mean it should drop. this mon has a plethora of offensive sets (dd glare tectonic/dd dragonium/dd dtail etc) which with semi-decent support pretty much always puts in a crapload of work. this thing can't drop |
5 | Mega Gengar: A+ -> S | if we go by the idea that gengar is one of the best mons when played optimally i think S is still really pushing it. there are other megas, there are other teamstyles without it, its usage isnt S levels, and it isnt infallible because the moves it runs make it matchup dependent. abstain on this. | I'd support it rising to the top of A+ but I also think S is pushing it since it hasn't reached "omnipresent staple" levels of usage like PDon and Dusk have | s reads omnipresent to me. im more inclined to drop dusk than put mgar in s. i think a+ is fine. | one of the best mons in ubers, immense potential, can pick and choose post matchups, mvp on stall where it can just trap or dbond the scariest breaker. it may not be as splashable but its definitely s in strength imo. mgar and dusk are the same viability level to me so im down with it going to S | I think that gar has a lot of untapped potential and obviously has a very high skill ceiling. Recently it has also started to run far more coverage which I think has increased how threatening it can be to any build. Gar is also one of the best mons to pair things with for instance gar + cm dark, Gar + glare/dd zyg etc.. I do think played optimally gar is probably the best mon in the tier so in favor of S | Gonna agree with Zesty. People start using HP Ice gar more, also thunder etc It can have a very versatile movepool, and its ability to trap support mons and free the field for other mons is incredible. I am in favor of it being in S. | mgar is the mon with by far the highest skill celling in ubers. can run a variety of diff sets and can honestly single handedly turn the game around. even though this mon isn't as splashable as other S mons, i think you need to look at this mon a bit differently. the sheer skill ceiling that this mon offers with stag and its movepool is more than S worthy in the hands of a decent player.tldr raise to S |
6 | Primal Kyogre: A -> Bottom of A+ | probably. it is difficult to prevent it from being completely useless in a game just because of the situations it is capable of forcing and a+ mons offer more than their offensive strengths... kyogre can say the same. | agree, kyogre is a very strong choice in the meta, also has a decent defensive niche now in being able to punish special arceus ground which not too many other offensive pokemon can do | i like kyogre so im always down for a raise. to try and put bias aside, though, i think kyogre is often a lux mon that ends up in the flex slots. | absolutely amazing breaker but idk if anything changed to make it better, abstain | One of the scariest mons to play atm having incredible breaking ability, and many sets. Until don + ferro makes a reassurgance its going to continue messing up any and all balances so def in favor of the rise. | Every team should be prepped for ogre, otherwise it just opens up holes. water spout + cm is also raising in usage, and this set is broken. Amazing balance breaker, in favor of the rise. | agree with bottom of a+. this mon is just so scary to face considering its started running cm spout/mixed cm holy shit |
7 | Mega Salamence: A > A- | i think as long as webs is as strong as it is, mence is difficult to put down too harshly. i find it can make teams have horribly bad matchups without specific partners (like facing cm groundceus) and most mence builds are rather linear, so i could deal with a drop inside A | Wouldn't drop it below A. Its offensive and defensive properties are still pretty nice and its one of the best options for handling Webs. | mence isn’t as broken as in oras but the mon still contributes a lot to teams even if it doesn’t clearly sweep games like before. fast defog is like the only good hazard control for more offensive teams. | no, good anti-webs and still a strong package of power and defensive utility | I do not use Mence a ton But I do think that it is one of the best mons when it comes to beating webs, i am also a big fan currently of things like draco mence to bait for other mons on your team. Mence is also very strong on para spam which i think is one of the most slept on playstyles in the tier, intim is also a clutch ability so all things concerned idk that it should drop. | Salamence is the go to mega for a lot of offenses bc of the good mu vs webs. Equipped with eq can do a ton to dusk or mage, while a facade set can be very good vs fat teams. It is fast, can provide a fast defog, while at the same time it can be a solid pivot for some physical mons. I think it should not drop. | mence is a good mon. does really well vs webs and even the dd non defog sets check stuff like pdon/ekiller/ho oh while being a tremendous force to reckon with at +1 so yeah. don't drop this |
8 | Magearna: A- > A | it holds a decent amount of things together and isn't too hard to cover up weaknesses it gives. difficult to take out of the game before it does its job as well. A is fair to me | I would support it rising to low A, yes the vulnerability to doubles/lack of toxic are still problems but it holds the fort against a ton of things and heal bell's defensive utility is very nice in status focused metas | still not high on this, feels like it´s only ever there to just not lose as opposed to actually push you towards the win. do whatever tho, ill probs never give this a fair evaluation. | yes its good. mag + fat phys walls is very strong. i think its clearly the second best steel in the tier and theres a definite gap between it and the other A- steels/supports so agree with rise | I think that Mage is excellent on a lot of balances and even BO's being able to ensure safety agasint cm arcs aside from ground and yvel is crucial. that being said I find that mage is one of the easiest mons to double on, and without access to toxic it is often times a sitting duck. the lack of reliable recovery is also a bit troublesome to me so all that considered i think it should remain A- | An excellent support mon to slap in balance/bo. IT helps against yveltal + heart swap is always smth ur opp thinks of before setting up. It is slow, and very predictable as Zesty said. I would say it should remain on A- | i really like this mon. cleric that checks xern/yveltal/some cm arcei and can volt. you can even make some high risk-high reward plays and catch the ever so obvious doubles made on/around mag. but it doesn't have any recovery aside from lefties (norm z is pretty whack), can't do anything significant to the checks switching in, and can't even volt on the incoming pdon.its absolutely *kills* the momentum you have if you get a predict wrong. don't raise this |
9 | Mega Mewtwo X: C- to -> B- ? | when i look at the vr and think "would i use this" it isnt until i get to C that id consider using it over another mon. B- is insanely high but i do think c- may be a bit too harsh. C somewhere to me | C probably? Not instantly dying to Yveltal Sucker Punch is kind of nice and it has some specific MUs it can do well vs (mainly Ferro teams lacking Arceus-Fairy or MSab and some Pex/Darkceus teams). still mostly inferior to Marshadow but Taunt + beating Toxapex gives it a few advantages. | shitmon, b is too kind but it can go wherever u want in c. | i dont like it, i think it should stay in the Cs, too easily walled by strong offensive fairies and ur choice of ghosts/flyings/poisons. zestys used it a lot more than i have tho so idm a raise to upper C+/C cuz i think he knows what hes talking about | I think while the surprise factor is not what it once was becasue most people will account for m2 possibly being x its still something to account for. this mon is very very good in conjuncture with spikes/tspikes due to having access to taunt and low kick hitting pretty much everything for at least 30. What this allows for is you to taunt say a support arc on a recover and the next time through they cannot switch in granting you a kill. outside of the taunt,recover,low kick, zen set you also have more niche picks like beam,rock slide and iron tail taht are possible. Big fan of mmx probably a bit biased but def think its on par with the B- mons | I think C+ is a solid place for MMX. It has enough bulk and speed to be able to put work in both offensive and more balanced teams. taunt is very nice for the reasons zesty said, ice beam can hit dragons, wisp can cripple physical attackers. In general i think it can be useful and C- is a bit for what it can actually give in certain mus. So i support it being in C+. | i know zesty really loves this and ive seen it put in work with the absurdly strong low kick.i guess it's not much worse than other B- mons so im fine with b- or c+ |
10 | Arceus-Ground : A > bottom of A+ | yes this is definitely versatile and useful enough on multiple styles to warrant A+ | A+ for sure, doesnt rly need an explanation i think | sure, its a good mon. cm auto wins a ton of mus, sd is as good as always, support is one of the few mons that can defog vs sd tomb don. | good mon, gonna abstain for the same reasons as i did for ogre tho | best offensive arc in the tier while maintaing its place as one of the better support arcs. Not a ton to say what its don in tour kinda speaks for itself. | I also support A+. Top tier mon both for support, or was a breaker. CM is scary, SD is scary while it is arguably top 1 support arceus. | hell yeah. not knowing whether it's cm or sd can be pretty scary too. but the sheer number of teams that there cm set fuck over is insane |
11 | Lunala: A+ -> top of A | sure, i think A does fit it better when considering the other shifts potentially happening + meta adaptations | its a good mon but i dont think its quiiiite splashable enough to get A+ | i still super like lunala but im the one who nommed it last time. do whatever you want, i didnt expect it to actually raise lol | another abstain | offensively is very solid takes a bit of prediction to pull off but not super hard to do. Defensively also excellent but requires a ton of support, especially cleric support. Ultimately I think its really held back by its typing and that was shown off in snake should be A | A is better, 4x weakness to dark, getting outsped by gars / marsh etc are all issues that you cant ignore, despite cm lunalium is extremely dangerous. High in A is a good spot for Lunala. | abstain |
12 | Arceus-Fairy: A- > B+ | honestly the thing that stops me putting fairyceus lower is just that everything in the B ranks is garbage or niche in comparison (smeargle aside). if it really is to drop id have it as the first mon in B+, its versatile for an arc and has unique things going for it | this is a "you either love it or hate it" mon for a lot of people, im one of the ones who likes it. it does have some issues (gar/ho-oh bother it a lot) but no other arceus forme fills its defensive niche and its still better than the stuff in B+. i think its still enough of a staple mon to build it/take into account to keep it A- even if it ends up being bottom A- | cm twave is a very legit set. this mon is bad in lazy teambuilding but it can do a lot of imporant things very few other pokemon can. all of the mons that exploit cm twave can very reasonably be expected to be accounted for via teammates. | its not good, its a pretty bad rocker and while it shuts out yvel/marsh in a vacuum, mgar/fire/steel meta will always be there to prey on it. i disagree with it going b tho, its got a definite niche and its halfway decent at it which is enough to keep it out of Bs imo | Think this is the best arc form on more offensive builds if you cant run an offensive arc being able to prevent marsh, scarf yvel and zyg from doing to much damage is crucial, and it is an excellent rocker against stall. I think if you watch the games that it was used in snake you'll see that it is far better in practice than on paper should remain A- I think personally I was going to nom it for A but that seems to not be an option | Disagree with it going to B-. Really good support form good yveltal/marsh answer. TWave to cripple steels etc. Can be really useful, even in more rare sets like cm. Definately A- material | yeah honestly don't drop this. great role compression with twave to hit the switch ins. doesn't need pursuit support with some sets like cm/twave. id honestly keep it in a- for the flexibility it provides a team with the super good role compression |
13 | Mega Scizor: B+ -> A- | this mon has really taken off recently. i'll leave the meta explanations to the players in snake but this is definitely worth A- considerations | curse is a cute set and this mon's slow u-turns synergize well with a ton of nasty threats, would support a rise to A- | sure, xern checks are cool | i can see it sitting with ferro/mag/pex, sure | I was watching some omfuge replays leading into snake while also doing Olt where curse sciz was popular for zyg. Terracotta always told me U-turn was the best move in ubers and I have to agree. The most common set rn is Curse sciz because of its ability to situationally beat dm,ultra and some ekiller/groundy variants. It also has the ability to run more niche options like tox and defog. I think just with the general style of teams in the meta sciz is one of the best megas bringing a lot of stability to more offensive teams without giving up momentum agree on A-. | What fireburn said. U-turning into hard hitters is amazing for gaining momentum, while curse allows it to 1v1 dusk with a def spread. Still checking xern so i believe A- is a good spot for it. | ive been preaching for years that uturn is the best move in the game. this mon gets uturn while checking some of the scariest threats in the tier with curse(necros/xern/ekiller/zyg and a lot of other random stuff 1v1) and can pull off a sweep late game vs some builds. A- as fuck. |
14 | Mega Venusaur: C > ? | venu isnt really a mon id personally consider, way too many costs. p sure i went over it with the shitmon shuffle so its fine where it is | abstain, i used this mon once in snake, i still have mixed feelings about it, its admittedly a decent choice for ttar teams but i have trouble justifying using it without pursuit and it can get overwhelmed/cheesed | i like xern checks. shouldnt be anywhere in b. shitmon so do what you want | i like it but i think where its placed rn is fine, can be worn down, xern and ogre can sometimes break through it anyway, and it rlly wants pursuit but ttar's sand fucks up synth so u end up with marsh/muk and if ur running muk u might as well run chans instead. | taking up a mega slot is what i think prevents this thing from being spammed. if you think about it in terms of whats common in the meta and look at the VR you would assume this thing is insane and ive played WK enough to know that it is nearly as annoying to paly in practice. for sure support the rise has a bit of 4mss I think but thick fat + its typing is just really solid | I never tried it, never build a team with it. I am just not sold idk.. i will abstain from this one | someone needs to fill me in on why i should give my mega slot to this mon. can someone show me a good team with this where i can't restructure the team a bit and make it better without venu?(this is actually a question). i honestly have no clue so abstain |
15 | Gothitelle: A- > ? | goth teams are -currently- weak and lacking but they always find a way to shift back into the meta as more mons ignore goths potential to trap them. i dont think this is the last we will see of them, but the vr should reflect their current ability and its more likely somewhere in the b ranks. | goth is not great this meta beyond being a niche ct option, drop to b | goths are being used and honestly i dont think fat is worth trying to ct so hard in this meta. obnoxious af but so gambley outside a few specific builds. idr where in b i wanted to put it before but probably b (b+ if you dont like hard dops) | B+/B, layering strong breaker combinations that cover different stall matchups is a more consistent way of dealing with fat that retains utility in offense mus than goth is rn. | should have just purged them. I think goth atm is not great the meta has for sure shifted towards BO and offense so the usualy goth balances just are not that great often times feeling like you are in a 5v6. I think goth on some diff style of builds could once again be pretty scary to play but at this juncure I find it to be a rather niche c-t option drop to B imo. | Goth is very mu related, and rn offense is being played a lot, which automatically gives the goth user a disadvantage. Dropping it to B+ imo, since it can be deadly and pretty much give auto win in some matchups. | only b+ mon that deserves to get banned lol. drop it |
16 | Gothorita: A- > ? | |||||||
17 | Deoxys-A: B -> B+ | high risk high reward mon with cool revenge practices and insane power as usual. i think it fits well in B+ | B+, ridiculous power + speed and offensive hazard support make it a good choice, had a good showing in snake | im out of touch, is this actually seeing more usage? just seems like a good b mon payoff thatll have hype phases like just about every other b mon payoff. | abstain | another mon that picked up during snake. I think that while it is of course extremely threatening the sheer fact that is just drops to any attacking move in the game can really hinder it, it also seems to take a fair bit of prediction to avoid being pivoted on with dm running around. That said I have seen games where its been extremely devestating. I would put it at the top of B- or bottom of B | I was the one who proposed this and i believe that deoxys can be really threatening when paired with u-turn mons liek scizor because it switches in safely. It can do massive damages with the right predictions, can pursuit gar etc. B+ is what i suggest for it. Mostly because it is a lot fragile, but its power makes up for its weak defenses. | ive been using spikes lo deo for ages now and its honestly hella nice. 4 attacks(no prio) seems hella cool in practice too. and it outspeeds +1 zyg. b+ minimum for now imo, could see this at a- in a few months |
18 | Dugtrio: C+ > ? | probably lower just because of usage but it cant be denied that it has a unique situational trap on a few meta mons (mag, pdon, dusk) that means it does have something to do in some games. | idk, it's not something you can ignore because its targets are common and valuable...maybe C? | shouldnt be in b range til results speak for it. other than that, do what u want with shitmons lol | abstain | does what its suppose to quite well but is quite a niche pick i think and does not really see enough usage for me to go one way or another on this so abstain. | Agreeing with Fireburn here. A C would be ok since it can do its job by trapping some valuable mons | does what it needs to. dug+3 attacks geoxern is good. period. don't raise this, C+ is fine |
19 | Smeargle: raise inside B+ | put it at the top id say. not against a further raise considering the dominance webs has rn | as long as its in B+ rank somewhere idc where it goes | idc about tier ordering lol | webs :puke: webs is dominant but pretty sure meta is turning against it (anti-leads/more flying foggers/ditto), wouldnt change placement especially if it often requires another lead to cover its flaws. | Always holding on Diancies pocket I think smeargle took off with diancie webs but i prefer shuckle on dianciless web variants so I think it should stay where its at | Should stay where it is | webs is ass. every team preps for it. it can win games fosho but the risk reward just isn't there. keep smeargle where it is i guess |
20 | Naganadel: B > ? | can we plz stop moving this mon | just leave it where it is lol | use lo dpulse naga. i like b still. | this mon keeps swinging, let it settle pls | scary on paper Im fine with leaving it but also never really see it do anything | Naga is fine in B ye. | b+ tbh. it's scary on webs with a modest nature |
21 | Ultra Necrozma: Merge with Dusk | I think Dusk/Ultra contribute a lot to each other's viability so its better that we treat them as the same mon. Dawn's Ultra variant can more or less be ignored here - it does the same thing in a different base form. Dusk by itself is slightly losing its grip on S, and Ultra is too strong for A, so if this doesn't go through I'd support a move on them seperately. | merge with dusk and keep combined dusk/ultra s. the dusk/ultra combination is too huge a factor in the meta to have it anywhere else imo. dawn can be safely ignored because its a one trick pony anyway | i feel the two mons are too distinct to be merging. id rather just see dusk drop to a+ if current meta favors running ultra in that slot. | ya idk both are dope and heavily affect the viability of the other w/ mind games and base forms but eehhhhhhhh not feeling the merge | I think that the merge is a fair idea. While they are both two separate mons, I think that the threat of not knowing which form it is really is one of the biggest factors as to why its such a lethal mon. Not just because of the speed boost which is the first thing that jumps out. The move pool of ultra covers many more things than say dusk. If its ultra you cannot simply go into ho-oh, or zyg for fear of eating and edge/p-gem of in zygs case a dpulse (same with gira forms). What this does is it forces you to scout for the form, but having played a lot of ladder games i've found that if you scout for the form against someone on ladder and its dusk they are getting two dances up and its looking slow. So yeah I for sure think that a merge is warranted simply becuase of the thought process that goes into deducing which one it is. | I also dont understand why the merge. Different mons with different roles so i think they should be ranked seperately. | wtf whys this being merged? there's a very marked dichotomy between them. don't merge |
22 | Ultra Necrozma: A > A+ | see my merge discussion for my view on this | assuming no merge would support a raise | i think i remember folks talking about this in disc. ultra nec is good at robbing games and folks are moving away from dusk as the go to geoxern check so the associated teambuilding / opportunity cost isnt as high anymore. | yes. good mon, mind games with dusk base, preys on bulky offense staples, dictates revenge killer meta. dusk base mitigates teambuilding constraints and it will always get a kill vs fat if you take advantage of surprise factor (and will sweep if no revenger). | for sure i think ultra offensively is probably the most threatening mon in the tier its generally offensively checked rather than defensively which I think is a good sign that a mon is very good | Supporting Ultra for A+, surprising factor, many possible sets and coverage, good speed tier. Probably below Dusk though | Ultra top of A+. can get trapped/revenged/outsped |
23 | Dusk: S > A+ | to elaborate while i do think dusk's potency is not as strong as before, its still clearly ahead of the a+ mons in terms of what it does to the meta. dropping it from S when gengar is nominated to move beside it leaves a really weird vr if dusk went to a+. i say keep it S in this case. | assuming no merge would not support a drop | was the dusk ultra merge already decided? if no, i think dusk dropping from s has solid arguments behind it. it only really shoehorns its way into teams by virtue of being a geoxetn check that does good mon stuff. meta definitely rude to its setup attempts altho tr dusk shouldnt be slept on. | same tier as mgar imo | I think that with all of the prep for offensive dusk that is implimented it is not nearly the threat it once was. I do think sd spdef is a solid set, but rocks dusk is terrible imo. So I would say A+ is def warranted do to its by far best set just not being as good. | Dusk can be deadly with the solgalium z, but also amazing supporting mon with the sp def set. I believe A+ top is a good spot for it. People do prep a lot for dusk nowadays | Keep dusk in S. don't see a reason it should drop |
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25 | uwu | |||||||
26 | Thread Nominations | |||||||
27 | ||||||||
28 | Reshiram: C > C+ | uhh its still super niche and the builds i made w it ages ago are about the best i could squeeze from it. can't think of a reason to move it higher honestly. | no reason to put it higher | shitmon, do whatever you want | no, its fine in C/C-, niche balance breaker vs steelspam but easily run over by offensive pressure (usually along with the rest of its team). | flame charge! idk why this things c though ive not seen it on a real team outside of BW | bad mon alert. | can someone show me a team where this mon has a distinct niche that can't be filled by something better? (actually a question) . abstain cuz no clue |