|Major flaws||Notable advantages|
|Corruption||Owning property?||Bureaucracy||Short term US||Length||Long term||Other nationalities?||Notes&cites||Crime||Pollution||Political||Natural||Notes&cites||Transport||Medical||Health Care Index||Health Care Cost||Other||English?||% English||Friendly||Openminded||Highest speed||Pay for extra?||Temperature||Rainy season||Accommodation||Ingredients||Restaurant||Labor||Medical||US flight||UK/EU Flight||Australia flight||Incentives||Notes&cites|
|Albania||36||Visa not required||1 year||43.91||71.43||61.2||#N/A||#N/A||#N/A|
|Argentina||Uncertain/unstable economic and possibly political future||Lovely, Cheap, educated, language barrier not strong||Diego||Only Canadians and Australians need to pay a fee, and no one needs visas||Cheap for Buenos Aires sattelite cities (e.g. Lanús)||Safe||good||Good||http://effective-altruism.com/ea/x2/update_on_the_new_ea_hub/7et||Buying a house would be an interesting longer term plan as they are not very expensive||Diego and Pablo Stafforini?||99% white country with some farmers and no industrial park, tech could save them.||32||yes||fine||Visa not required||90 days||fine, only canadians australians||40.21||58.62||48.4||73.73||134.46||6.52||400-1100USD|
|Australia||- Housing in cities is expensive and can be challenging for some people to obtain, but the train system is good so you can just move to a less populated region where housing is less in demand.|
- Flights and internal travel in Australia may be expensive, depending on destination, due to long distances. (Australia is very large.)
|- Melbourne is the world’s most liveable city for the sixth year running according the Economist’s global liveability survey. (The Guardian)|
- Currency conversions likely to be in your favor.
- Australia is politically quite stable.
- Australia is tectonically quite stable.
- Melbourne is unusually safe from a wide variety of threats (see safety).
- Melbourne has a nice climate with warm winters.
- The state of Victoria (where Melbourne is) has liberal laws.
- There are two different rationalist movements, LessWrong and Evidence and Reasoning Enthusiasts (Kathy's).
- There is an existing EA group to welcome you and assist.
|- Kathy Forth|
- Eliot Redelman
Visas are not hard to get if you meet the requirements, but do take a lot of processing time and require a lot of paperwork. This may be changing if a lot of Americans decide to leave due to Trump.
New Zealand citizenship, PR, and certain NZ visas grant you the ability to live and work in Australia, last I knew. This may change with a large enough number of immigrants.
|The cities are expensive, but I suspect moving out into the countryside would be much more affordable and it's likely to be worth the large number of benefits.||- Melbourne is unlikely to be attacked by foreign militaries due to supply line challenges because it's on the Southern coast. They could attack Australia on the Northern coast, but there would be plenty of notice for those in Melbourne that Australia is under attack. A foreign power might not bother to come down to the Southern coast to take Melbourne even if they win on the Northern coast because it's *that* far away.|
- No natural disasters other than the universal ones like wild fires and floods.
- Low crime rate. (Even bad neighborhoods here are nothing like American ghettos.)
- There are a lot of unique deadly animals in Australia but humans have civilized this place enough that almost no one ever dies from them.
|Acceptable, but nothing like Seattle. They're currently working on a fiber optic Internet infrastructure and it's overdue. (Not sure if that's just Melbourne or the entirety of Australia.)||Excellent||Contact the champions via Facebook. (Add Kathy as a friend to make sure she sees your message!)||Yes to property. Unsure about setting up an organization.||As close to ideal as bureaucracy gets.||The ETA visitor visa:|
- Granted in minutes.
- Online application.
- Lasts 3 months.
- You can extend that to 12 total months by applying for a 600 visitor visa.
Kathy might let you use her guest room near Melbourne.
|90 days - 1 year||The skilled independent visa: |
- Requires 6 years of experience in certain career paths, perhaps mitigated by education.
- You get permanent residence when it is granted.
- This costs 5,000-10,000 AUD.
- Australia is rumored to have a bias in favor of Americans and Brits.
- Australia is rumored to have a bias against certain nationalities.
New Zealand citizenship, PR, and certain NZ visas grant you the ability to live and work in Australia, last I knew. This may change with a large enough number of immigrants.
|Melbourne is awesome.||22.24||22.5||None except the universal ones like wild fires and flooding, and you can plan for those (don't live in a forest or on a floodplain).||Unusually Good|| Possibly the actual best in the world. Free healthcare if you have the right visa, permanent residence or are a citizen. People don't go bankrupt if they get sick here. |
The health insurance is extremely inexpensive compared to the American offerings. See the major health insurance provider's website bupa.com.au for pricing.
|73.71||134.21||Must sees: |
- Australian funny political videos.
- The major arts festival held during the season when the sun never fully sets called "White Night".
- Bush doofs (wild parties in the forest).
- The world-famous Sydney Opera House.
- The strange and fascinating MONA museum.
- The great barrier reef.
- The unusually unique flora and fauna like the lyre bird.
- The wonderful secular comedian Tim Minchin.
|Yes||Almost everyone.||Very. Extra friendly to Brits and Americans.||Yes||Nice. Mild winters. Summer can be hot.||No (only in Northern states, but not near Melbourne).||100-200 AUD for a rice, beans and V8 diet.||1350 AUD||15-20 AUD||700-800 (I did not check every time of year.)||40-600 AUD (depending on where you are going)|
|Belize||http://effective-altruism.com/ea/x2/update_on_the_new_ea_hub/7et||#N/A||Visa not required||1 month, extendable up to 6 months||42.71||43.97||66||#N/A||#N/A||81.65|
|Bolivia||34||Visa on arrival||90 days||31.72||83.34||78.5||#N/A||#N/A||#N/A|
|Brazil||Expensive short-term visa for US citizens||beautiful||bad for US people||not great||bad||fine||medium||http://effective-altruism.com/ea/x2/update_on_the_new_ea_hub/7et||38||Visa required||<- expensive||30.35||53.13||65.3||51.1||90.4||5|
|Cambodia||Endemic corruption, lawless||Cheap travel to other parts of SE Asia||OK in Siam Reap. Bad in South.||21||Visa on arrival||30 days||59.24||78.26||87.4||#N/A||#N/A||#N/A|
|Canada||Long & cold winters||Culturally awesome. Close and similar to US, seems to be avoiding the problems prevalent in US and UK, good climate for start ups||No visa for six months for US citizens, Express entry immigration with job offer. While NAFTA lasts Americans and Mexicans can get work visas at the border with job offer letter (in ~200 fields)||Bad in Toronto/Vancouver, more reasonable vs the Bay in Kitchener-Waterloo (KW)||good||fine||excellent||Nascent rationalist community in Waterloo, EA chapters in Toronto, Vancouver||- zejacobi at gmail dot com|
- malcolm at malcolmocean dot com
|Yes - many cities have accelerators or incentives for start-ups. Highest startup density in the world outside the Bay is in KW-Toronto corridor, world's largest free accelerator in KW, etc, etc||83||No more so than in the US||Visa not required||180 days||Express entry with job offer, otherwise time consuming to immigrate||Allows dual citizenship||62.84||28.8||23.8||Ontario has no natural disasters. BC suffers same risks as all west coast||About as bad/good (depending on perspective) as America||Longer wait times for electives than America, but much cheaper overall. PR and citizens have single payer health insurance||68.62||126.24||Many Start up incubators||Everywhere but Quebec, which has a lot of anti-English laws||85.63||Yes||Extremely||100Mb-1Gb|
|Chile||great climate, most prosperous and advanced economy in South America||http://exosphe.re/ https://www.facebook.com/evangaensbauer/posts/10154139785028554?comment_id=10154140202153554&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D||Brienne has contacts||70||Visa not required||90 days||55.24||72.24||41.9||61.1||110.37||9.53|
|Costa Rica||Of carribean states, has better tech infrastructure than others. Often considered an ideal place to retire||Rochelle Harris||55||Visa not required||90 days||39.26||56.1||45.1||#N/A||#N/A||#N/A|
|Croatia||Cheap and convinient travel to other EU countries. Very popular tourist destination with famous coastiline and lots of opportunities for recreation and fun (music festivals, camping, summer activities, sports..etc). Lots of cheap unused land/space, bunch of low-populated islands.||EU member state||generally very cheap compared to the western countries. Beer = 2$||generally safe||Modern highways, but rail service is kinda outdated.||http://www.likecroatia.com/news-tips/expat-life-in-croatia/||51||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days||70.58||30.46||52.4||59.96||110.36||49||Regular flights to all major EU cities|
|Czech Republic||Popular with start-up communities. Prague is a great city. Cheap travel in Europe.||Rochelle Harris||cheap||good||56||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days in the Schengen area||65.97||42.35||40.8||72.35||133.1||27|
|Ecuador||all but 10 countries visa-free, 90-day with reentry||32||Visa not required||90 days, extendable for another 90 days, per year||41.74||56.53||75.6||65.69||118.53||#N/A|
|Fiji||52||Visa not required||360 days||50.56||53.18||76.2||#N/A||#N/A||#N/A|
|Finland||Very cold and dark in winter||EU member state||very safe||good||18.8|
|Georgia||28||Visa not required||90 days||80.61||64.05||78.9||#N/A||#N/A||#N/A|
|Germany||Cold and dark in winter||Berlin and Munich have existing start-up communities, central in Europe||Christian Kamm||good||fine||Existing rationality community in Berlin||- mail at ckamm dot de||81||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days in the Schengen area||70.87||30.33||28.6||75.85||138.96||64|
|Guatemala||38||e-Tourist Visa||30 days||22.09||72.11||83.2||66.47||118.88||10.35|
|Iceland||Winters, driving recommended, there isn't TONS to do||Low population (~300,000). Very progressive. May be possible for EAs to get involved with pioneering progressive democratic projects. Convenient location between Europe and North America.||expensive - $10 a beer||great||good||74.15||16.34||22.8|
|India||Delhi: Health and safety issues for women, sunk time on bureaucracy.||Strong internet and tech talent. Charity Science Health is working there.||A lot of sunk time but can use the bounce in and out option||Very cheap||Sexual harassment bad||Depends- I found in Delhi- poor||Poor||41||Visa not required||6 months||10 yr multiple entry tourist visa||30.93||84.49||79.6||#N/A||#N/A||Prevalent||97.64||Only amongst friends|
|Indonesia||Flights get expensive during holidays b/c it's a very popular tourist destination for Australians.||Beautiful & easy for tourists.||Rochelle Harris||25||Heavy, but corrupt and can be skirted if you grease the right palms||Visa on arrival||30 days, conditions apply, extendable up to 60 days||63.76||69.89||74.9||#N/A||#N/A||Almost everyone||#N/A||Extremely|
|Israel||High cost of living.||Great place for EA ideas to thrive. Vegetarianism, tech, & x-risk awareness||Doable||Fairly high||excellent||excellent||good||Yes||Fine||79.7|
|Jamaica||Poor||42||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days||63.06||84.89||65||59.99||106.52||#N/A|
|Japan||Cost (?). There is still a prejudice towards outsiders, especially in suburban areas. You need to constantly endure being stared at by people.|
There are not many people who can communicate in English.
|The standard of hygiene is excellent. People can be warm and welcoming, also extremely polite. If you find the right people, in the villeinage, you will be treated like a family.||Chiaki||http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/index.html There are many ways that allow people to stay in Japan, but presumably the more important part would be not about getting a visa but more about having a permission to built a some form of organisation?||House prices are significantly low in the suburbs and the quality is second to none.||The internet connection is very strong. You will hardly ever experience not being able to connect to the internet even on undergrounds.||35.1||In the city you will be surprised to see how abundant in choices you will have in terms of health care, yet in the suburb you will have difficulties finding one doctor.||In summer it gets very hot and humid in the south of Tokyo (around 36C) and in the north of Tokyo, it gets quite cold and so much snow (around -5 and 3m snow fall).|
|Laos||Internal travel is very time-consuming, so depends where it is.||Very cheap, great food, nice environment||super cheap||below average||50||Visa not required||3 months||31.4||64.49||84.4||66.45||119.78||Limited, tourist trade only||62.57||Very|
|Macedonia||35||Visa not required||180 days||47.2||69.19||67||68.13||121.84||12.9|
|Malaysia||Visas and increasingly conservative state.||high tech, excellent resources for cheap, excellent climate, safe, good E2G possiblities, cheap travel in SE Asia||Rochelle Harris||3 month- bounce in and out on a tourist visa is possible||cheap||excellent||excellent||excellent||44||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days||80.78||44.58||66.1||#N/A||#N/A||#N/A|
|Mexico||Lawless.||Lawless, effectively tribal, abundant empowerable youth.||65 countries visa-free for 6 months||cheap||good if in synergy with common locals||36||Visa not required||3 months||42.98||62.75||70.4||#N/A||#N/A||14|
|Montenegro||27||Visa on arrival||90 days||49.12||85.42||55.2||#N/A||#N/A||46.49|
|Morocco||poor||27||Visa not required||90 days||56.61||#N/A||74.2||#N/A||#N/A||#N/A|
|Nepal||39||Visa not required||180 days||57.47||49.36||91.2||#N/A||#N/A||#N/A|
|Netherlands||Not sure what differentiates it well from the UK.||Good social security. Open secular country. Dutch citizens are proficient in English. Close to the UK.||average||excellent||excellent||excellent||28.2|
|Nicaragua||74||Visa not required||3 months||56.18||21.33||79||#N/A||#N/A||#N/A|
|Panama||36||Visa not required||up to 183 days; determined on arrival||43.19||84.78||53.2||#N/A||#N/A||#N/A|
|Uruguay||51||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days in the Schengen area||59.65||45.63||36.2||52.1||92.65||20|
|Peru||35||Visa not required||30 days||57.98||71.5||72||72.25||130.36||56.63|
Not possible to own land.
Exceptionally friendly people
Not much government interference
|Toon||Waiver extendable up to 3 years|
|27th lowest out of 124 (see cost sheet)||Safer than US||avg 4.3 Mbps||bad||GMT +8||Yes|
|63||Not for immigrants||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days in the Schengen area||Waiver up to 3 years|
|65.41||30.87||84.7||69||124.97||27||Yes||Yes||~100Mbps||avg 26 celcius|
|Portugal||Needs infrastructure work outside of Lisbon.||1) Western Europe's poorest country.|
2) Politically stable.
3) Good infrastructure in Lisbon, which is good to get to from wherever.
--> Could also mean we are going to find more potential EAs
4) Well educated people.
5) Currently strongly promoting all types of entrepreneurship (Web Summit, trying to bring gigafactory2 over, entrepreneurship checks, etc.).
|Konrad Seifert||EU member state + Golden visas possible.||https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Portugal&country2=United+Kingdom||5th safest country in the world (http://static.visionofhumanity.org/sites/default/files/GPI%202016%20Report_2.pdf)||"With an average peak Internet access speed of 34.5 megabits per second, Portugal stood seventeenth on the list of countries with the fastest Internet access." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Portugal)||Yes. Current prime-minister (António Costa) spearheaded pro-startup capital when in was leading Lisbon, and doing same now that leading Portuguese Gov. see http://startupportugal.com/home-en/||46||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days||70.66||59.18||29.2||51.43||90.66||Prevalent||31|
|Vietnam||62||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days in the Schengen area||65.82||50.05||70.7||60||108.31||33|
Some corruption still remains, particularly affecting private enterprise & politics
Transport infrastructure somewhat lacking
|Great internet speed & access|
Prices fairly low in comparison to rest of EU
Good flight links to rest of Europe from a number of intl airports
Fairly stable politically
|No visas needed for EU and EEA citizens||https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Romania&displayCurrency=USD||Generally safe, pickpocketing still occurrs and there are bad neighbourhoods to be avoided in most major towns||Best in the world according to some publications||Roads - ok, but leaves to be desired|
Trains - same as road
Air - v good
|Details added by AlexE||thisisjaid at gmail dot com||40||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days||58.44||50.95||52.9||55.88||100.89||#N/A|
|Serbia||58||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days in the Schengen area||65.94||50.22||72||75.89||140.1||22|
|Singapore (SG)||Politically cautious country. Can be bureacratic for getting things done. |
Expensive city to live in.
|1) Financial Hub in Asia - potential for outreaching to a lot of people who have excess wealth to give more and give effectively (e.g. engage them in EA narratives like GWWC & 80K)|
2) Educated population and growing group of socially-conscious, meaning-seeking young people - potential in finding people to work in "EA jobs"
3) Existing EA chapter - a growing community of EAs
4) English is the main language here.
5) A tiny country - you can get anywhere within 45min in Singapore by car; public transport is really easy and convenient and cheap
|Wanyi - |
"Citizens of almost 80% of the world's countries may travel to Singapore for a period of 30 days or 90 days without a visa"
Singapore has been extremely international, multiethnic and
multireligious. Its economy only works if it's open to the world.
have a friend who runs a small company in Singapore and regularly hires
new people, including foreigners. When she needs to hire a foreigner,
she just asks for a visa for them. However, while (I think) there isn't
any -official- about portion of foreigners, it seems that the government
only wants you to hire no more than ~50% foreigners. If you get much
above this they start denying your visa applications.
|not great||excellent||excellent||https://www.facebook.com/groups/1553063708313066/ www.effectivealtruismsingapore.org||This country was inserted by Wanyi; Singapore wasn't shortlisted in this list originally. |
Chapter's contacts: Wanyi Zeng & Kyle Tan
Wanyi is working on EA full-time starting in Aug 2016 (currently self-funded)
|GMT +8||85||Visa not required||90 days||52.34||43.01||32.9|
|South Africa||On the dangerous side (nighttime activities should be in certain areas for safety), but on the other hand, extreme poverty is very close and much can be learned from that.||Extremely low-cost housing, especially in relation to quality of life in the wealthier areas.||I lived in Cape Town for three years and have many contacts who could help set this up. -Laura||Not difficult||great||not great||could be better, but not bad||very good, in the areas we would be in||South Africa #1: http://time.com/money/4229754/cheapest-countries-to-live/||Inserted by Laura Gamsefirstname.lastname@example.org||58.42||43.01||69.9|
|Spain||Village idea: Fairly remote, needs prep work, not much else to do. Or could be nearer a city not in abandoned village||North west of Spain has large swaths of land that are mostly abandoned and very cheap. We'd have to wire up our own internet, and I'm unsure about amenities, but some of these areas are ~1 hour away from an airport.||Zachary Anderson: Currently living in spain.||EU / Schengen||Medium upfront cost for acquisition and renovation||Western Europe||We'd need to set it up ourselves. There exists an association of DIY networkers (https://guifi.net/) with their open source tools, and other initiatives that might be helpful here||http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576711/Buy-ghost-village-50-000-Thousands-abandoned-Spanish-hamlets-sale-price-London-garage.html https://www.facebook.com/eric.bruylant - I have several contacts with people who've done smaller but comperable things in Spain. Business specialising in selling entire villages: http://www.aldeasabandonadas.com||GMT +1||Somewhat||37||Electronic Travel Authorization||30 days||52.34||65.36||39.8||No earthquakes, hurricanes or other||Good public transport in cities,||#N/A||#N/A||9.9|
|Sri Lanka||Not great accessibility ALSO very conversative and not civil society friendly||42||eVisa||3 months||58.42||73.52||87.7||73||131.69||17|
|Turkey||Conversative and not civil society friendly||70||Visa not required||90 days within 180 days in the Schengen area||70.91||17.27||77.3||69.91||129.11||50|
|Thailand||Depends where you are||Cheap flights elsewhere in SE Asia. Easy, fun, popular, fairly cheap||They change this often. Worst case scenario: do a 'visa run' to a neighbouring country (many tourists do this to stay longer-term) every 3 months. Luckily travel in SE Asia is cheap & relatively painless.||Cheaper than West, more expensive than most SE Asia||Average. Lots of motorcycle accidents||Depends on the location. Can be very fast in certain areas||lauragamse at gmail dot com |
(lived in Pai, Thailand
with the CouchSurfing
collective in 2008)
|38||Visa not required||30 days, extendable once||62.99||71.76||78.8||80.8||147.95||27.16|
|Trinidad and Tobago||39||Visa not required||90 days||22.73||86.55||57.8||#N/A||#N/A||87.74|
|Estonia||Almost everyone is an atheist.||Amazing.||43.4|
|Hungary||Racist & anti-immigrant||Budapest a thriving city - good nightlife etc||Cheap||36||Visa not required||30 days||52.7||62.56||111.6||#N/A|
|Poland||Cheap while inside of European Union (even true for major cities); rather attractive outdoors with cheap land available for purchase to anyone; good connection by air, land and sea; growing tech hub; wide adoption of English as second language||Michal - facebook.com/trzesimiech||EU / Schengen||cheap; currency is PLN; usual rent in Kraków or Warsaw is 1800-2500 PLN for 60m^2; a decent meal is 20 PLN (4.51 EUR)||excellent||LTE in all major cities; 10-50MB broadband is widely available for landline connections||good to very good in and between all major cities||country-wide Facebook group for EAs, in addition to 3+ local groups||a strong and growing community and local awareness||michal.trzesimiech at gmail dot com||UTC+01:00||Cracow and Warsaw as main hubs for tech/startup scene||62||no restrictions since may 2016||rather high, but with tendency to be falling||Visa not required||90 days||EU / Schengen rules apply||The country is relatively homogenic, with some diversity in major cities||65.82||50.05||40.7||No dangerous phenomena or natural disasters except rare floodings||Easy by land, sea and air (with international airports in Warsaw and Cracow)||Public healtcare is so-so, but there's a large number of private competitors||60||108.31||Almost everyone below 40 in all major cities||33||Friendly, though moderately expressive||Somewhat conservative on average, except for Warsaw, which is rather liberal and open-minded||100MB/s||Yes||Cold winters, rest of year is moderate on average (20-25)||Some rain in autumn||800 - 1400 EUR||140 EUR||340 EUR||2 EUR||0 - 100 EUR upwards||500 - 1400 EUR||45 - 160 EUR||1400 PLN||European Union funds|
|Mars||literally not on Earth||literally not on Earth||Elon Musk||????||expensive to reach||poor||no internet||no roads||http://www.spacex.com/mars||currently lacking in atmosphere||Elon Musk||Dutch||growing fast||0||Space Treaty may need amending before allowing private property ownership||FAA and ITAR||0||0||Radiation risks, global dust-storms, lack of breathable air, occasional falling rocks...||BYO||BYO||bandwidth: 32k/s|
avg ping of 720000
|Yes||-76 to 2 C||DIY||$500,000|
|Seasteads||We have to make one.||We get to make anything we want.||Very high.||Literal pirates.||DIY||DIY||DIY||BYO||BYO|