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2024-2025 (current year) link: NEW 2024-2025 Pain Fellowship Application Google Doc - Google Drive
NEW 2024-2025 Pain Fellowship Application Google Doc		@dropdown@
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QuestionsReply 1Reply 2Reply 3Reply 4Reply 5Reply 6Reply 7Reply 8Reply 9
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Number of Days since last interview invite:# of Invites given today:0
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NEW CYCLE SPREADSHEET
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***Want information on specific program(s)? GOTO THE '2023 Reviews NEW' TAB!New Applicants: 2023 -2024 Match cycle has concluded. Less likely you will get helpful feedback on here besides what's already been added to the '2023 Reviews NEW' page. Do yourselves a favor and create a new Spreadsheet for your upcoming application cycle.
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Create a new spreadsheet for your application year!
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Preload: normal to ↑, critical to avoid hypovolemia
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Any thoughts on UVA? Rate: normal to high to sustain forward flowno//nope// everyone matched now so there will be a lot less responses for helpCreate a new spreadsheet for your application year!
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Are only 3 LORs allowed for submission? Or do places accept 4 LORs?Rhythm: sinus
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i'm worried about the job market of pain. seems like it's alreayd oversaturated and going in the direction of rad onc or EM in the sense of oversupply and churning out way too many residents a year than needed to fill up the blanks in the available job market. Way too many poured into the job market every year than people going out. Contractility: RV may need inotropic support if RV failureThen don't apply// nah I'm still gonna apply and contribute to the system nice try gunner
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someone make a new spreadsheet for 2024-2025, thx.Afterload: maintainplease sir/ma'am
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PVR: avoid any ↑ (avoid high airway pressures, hypercarbia, hypoxemia, hypothermia, acidosis)
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2023-2024? is this the spreadsheet for the new cycle?No, this is old. Please someone that is more technology savvy, make a new 2024-2025 spreadsheet. Same for discord plz // the discord has stayed the same for 2 years already. It allows others to use the search function if they want // okk // oooooookkkk
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Thoughts on St. Luke su
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Anyone know if Dartmouth is full now or a spot left?One spot left but I think we might leave it unfilled unless there is the right candidate. // lol who even r u // current fellow at DHis it every weekend off, half days Fridays? Any call? Wife won't be happy if I move her to the forest and I'm working all the time // Home call 1 week a month. Very chill. Usually get 2 pages a week. So not technically every weekend off but I haven't had to go in once. Not always half day Friday, but most weeks 1 half day in the beggining then one half day every 2 weeks. It's a VERY unique area that is heaven for some and a nightmare for others. Decide if you want to live in the forest first.
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Who are all of the people taking all the open spots if there were only 27 unmatched? Lots of PMR, EM, etc. who hadn't applied originally jumping in at the unique opportunity27 people didn't match// oops my bad
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This ain't no Tinder!
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PSA: Before asking basic questions like "how is X program" please read the many reviews under the corresponding tabs. Programs like BWH have been reviewed to death. x3
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For someone applying next cycle- anyone have any insider info about why certain programs went unfilled? A combo of: less applicants than spots, bad location, low numbers, high workload/call, no name. Look at the 2023 Program Reviews tab// why were some notable programs not reviewed at all? Case western and usc have nothing for example, for like the past few years, yet they all filled // just reminded me to drop my Case review as well as a bunch of TX ones. I think some programs just never get reviewed for some reason. Hope this helps
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"This is not Tinder" PD here. LolzIts fax tho. Don't rank a place if you dont want to go there. This is the basics of the match even for residency. Thats why so many gas applicants only ranked a handful of spots. Everyone and their mom knew there would be lots of open spots and to not sleep on the scramble. Your alternative for not matching is being a full on attending making $$$ too. Its not that complicated
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"How did X program go unmatched" There were more spots than applicants. The number one reason is the gas market is hot, over 100 less applicants due to that. 332 applicants for 393 spots. Even great programs are bound to go unmatched // don't think that has anything to do with competitiveness as much as it has to do with pain PDs poorly adapting to the current job market by continuing to cast a narrow net<- I agree with that. by casting a narrow net they essentially interviewed the same small # of anesthesia and maybe PMR residents. PDs would prob need to interview more FM Psych Neuro to make up for the decrease in gas&PMR. They may or may not adjust next year.. //But I want it to be competitive so I can feel good about myself. // lowkey same dude but we made it its gucci // hopefully it'll pay dividends in the pain job market in the near future
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applying this upcoming cycle but want to stay in philly - whats jefferson like?Not a bad program. There are not as many pain faculty as I expected but I believe you would get good training there. The city life wasn't for me otherwise I would have ranked them higher / I really liked Jeff - would be a solid program for anyone. Good numbers, and good set up of their clinic, very unique I rotated with them. I believe is a good program. Attendings are nice. I match in my #1 rank but they were high on my list. The program is solid and PD is quite good.
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how is mayo overall and mayo jax vs az vs RST Mayo > Mayo AZ > Mayo Jax. They are all good but Rochester is top tier. AZ is also very interventional and expanding. // plz elaborate on differences // Main Mayo is the mothership. The other branches ship their fellows to Rochester for comprehensive workshops/labs. That being said, the other branches are very solid and interventional still, and still carry the Mayo name and are in better locationsRead the reviews!! Training across all three sites is outstanding, would argue that while historically Mayo Rochester has given fellows more procedural exposure and volume, the training across all three sites is now largely comprable wiht only some site specific variation and applicants may consider the size of department, location, faculty, surgical autonomy for implants, and culture fit to help differentiate them.
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how is yale? low volume
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how is BWH actually? so many mixed reviewstop 3 program // it's good but overrated, way long hours (eg. 6a-9p on inpatient) and not that many procedures compared to many others. I ranked it #7 and have no regrets. // how much time on inpt// I also ranked bottom half of my list, great program but only if you want to work hard for the surgical exposureThere are detailed impressions in the "2023 Reviews" tab; why don't you try reading them?
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Unfilled Chicago programs getting filled up quick
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which pain fellowship have the most ultrasound involvedmain mayo is good // main Mayo is great. Very interventional while also being a very academic program. Good advanced procedures with 60+ SCS, dedicated US clinic, strong alumni network. Would have ranked them higher if the location wasnt so terrible.
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how did ccf go unmatched that's wildIt is a great program has excellent faculty, with a lot of resources for fellows to grow. Very well funded department more focussed towards academic route. But a great program overall
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someone please provide a link to the discord?
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anyone have a list of matched fellows at BWH? any PM&R candidates?one from spaudling PM&R matched pain at BWH, unsure if there are others2 PMR, 1 neuro, the rest anesthesia // where did you see the total list? // current fellow one PM&R was from spaulding, where was the other PM&R from?emory and spaulding were the two PM&R matches
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So--how truthful were programs about ranked-to-match communication?truthful x3//not truthful x1 - however nothing really was set in stone.
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Anyone thinking of pulling out of their matched spot? What's the best way to find out if spots open up before matriculation Last year on the discord some current fellows would let people know if their program was looking Oh awesome thanks! / which discord?// hey so I looked into this - apparently you have to apply for a waiver and it needs to be granted before you can speak to the program. Ok but just to know if a program has an opening that comes up?// I was thinking of reaching out to the PD of the program you're interested in? is that a violation ?Question: is the waiver to switch from your matched program to a new one? Regarding open spots, the ones that popped up on the discord were looking for available applicants not candidates who we're matched at other programs but wanted to switch. where this discord?
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anywhere we can find out who matched where? Did anyone not get an email from PD when they matched. If so, which program? // yes, about 2 min after the match the PD called to welcome and congratulate me (VCU)
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When do we find out who our co-fellows are?did on match day from program // PD just congratulated but no info about other fellows...x2Same day email on Match day in the early afternoon// not for me though
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Is there a new post match discord?there is a fellows only discord
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Whe do programs start contacting newly matched fellows?Already been contacted by mine / same x7Not yet x3Thx for commenting. Making me feel better to just wait rather than reach out. Appreciate ya Last year, it took me like 5 weeks to get an email from my program lol// that means it took them five weeks to recover from the shock of having dropped so low they had to match you
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How's the SOAP going? Are people filling up the spots?
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Anyone know anything about Dartmouth? Work life balance?Dartmouth is pretty great, tbh, good work life balance, currently fellows say sometimes can take Friday off to go on a trip (I think occasional Fridays off are built in)
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Anyone pick up UVA in the scramble? I'm jelly.
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can you switch out of current fellowship to one of the unmatched and just work for a year?????Technically yes. But good luck getting a program to trust you to not ditch them too, and they may also be reluctant to take you on because they pain community is small and they don't want bad blood with another program
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"Anyone know anything about Dartmouth? Work life balance?"
They take 3 fellows each year and surprisingly this year all spots were unfilled. Heard that they're going through lots of changes with attendings and admin // Current fellow here. We take 4 a year but yes I believe we only matched one for next year. Big oof. It's a great program but has had some really big changes in the past couple years. Some good, some less good. Biggest challenge is the VERY rural area. I'm hopefully that this match will prompt leadership to change some things for the better. But I have no doubts about my training or my ability to get a job, and the weekend anesthesia moonlighting is great!
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Elke tell us where you matched pleaseUW//seriously??//yeah they like ppl like her. Very woke // yeah they got more EM than any other program// where is there match list
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WHERE did ELKE match?!Chomp chomp university /Washington?//yeah heard that too//ooh she will be cofellows with me
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EVERYONE write where you matched!
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is there a situation where you can switch into an unfilled Fellowship spot? like I'm asking for a friend obvi
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DID ELKE MATCH?!Hopefully not at my program :/ x2
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Which program in washington unmatched? The list just says "washington seattle"UW
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Can you post where you matched and if it was low or high on your rankJust update do me dirty
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61 unfilled positions- someone post the unmatched program last, curious who didn't match <--- wow.... 61 unfilled?! someone post the list please // yep the ERAS/NRMP data predicted this way before the match. Theres an unmatched places tab on this sheet
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There are more unmatched spots than unmatched applicants so it's worth a shot. No reason they can't sign someone out of match to fill their spot. Go for it // As someone who got my current residency spot outside of the match, highly recommend this! Just cold call. At this point, a lot of places just want a body to fill the space.
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welp, didn't match//wow one of 27 rightAwe man, I'm really sorry about that // Can we all just agree this match process is weird and maybe time for something new?yeah wish it wasn't 10 months long so I could have started working on a plan bI mean you can scramble no? there are so many spots // might be better to go unmatched tbh you have a litany of great options to choose from
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Is it too late to send an LOI?
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post the unmatched list x2
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GOING TO HARVARD BABY // which program there's like 3 lolBWH ... its been a wild ride boys and girls and out //
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IM FREAKING OUT MANNNNN x3.Same!!I just hope I get into my top 5 programs I ranked //x2
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NRMP website says you have to log in for results: https://www.nrmp.org/help/item/how-will-i-know-if-i-have-matched-to-a-program-in-the-fellowship-match/I thought they send an email
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9/27Big day todayCan you imagine if there's a glitch and it's not there by 12:01? :) // waiting until noon is so stupid
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wishing everybody the best for tomorrow. looking forward to sharing this field with yall in the future :)
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GUYS, last chance to update the Do Me Dirty Rank. PLEASE DO IT!!!Too busy watching Saw IV to ease the tension
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We will get the results via email? Or an email notifying results are ready on the NRMP website?email with results i believeSnail mail
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if you don't match, does the email come an hour before like residency?every single person whether applicant or PD gets notified at the same time. Wednesday 12p est. whether matched or going unmatched.
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this is soooooooooooo funnnnnn
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Already having trouble sleeping.. good luck tomorrow everyone!I'm just ready to know, it's been a long 10 months ````````````````````man such anxiety. maybe more than boards
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i aint gonna match and i think i'm almost near the acceptance stage at this point/ why do you say that?// how many interviews?i aint gonna match and i think i'm almost near the acceptance stage at this point/ why do you say that?// how many interviews? // 3 // you just need one, good luckDoes anyone know if we get a match notification email today like for residency or is it just the one on Weds? // every single person whether applicant or PD gets notified at the same time. Wednesday 12p est. whether matched or going unmatched.
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if you match can you drop out if you change your mind and just do general? yep. happens a few times a year. happened to BWH last yearYes but don't expect to enter the pain world again anytime soon. Unless it's some life altering events preventing you to commit to the match contract // the new anesthesia salary is a life altering event for meYou can. But I think if you do you get a 3-5 yr ban from using the nrmp again unless it's with a good cause. // obtaining the new anesthesia salary is a good causeOn one hand I feel frustration that you would be taking up a spot that could have went to someone else, but on the other hand you do you and fuck this whole process, NRMP and ERAS can get fucked.Not the OP. But don't worry about that, the spot will get filled.
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There's definitely less ppl applying this year than last, but the ones who did apply tend to stay as opposed to last year where a lot of ppl dropped out. So it ends up being even if not a little more applicants this year // what is the basis behind this ideaAll speculation honestly for all of us. We'll see once the data comes out. There's already been numerous examples of people dropping out for general anesthesia this year, also people only ranking 1-2 programs and DNR-ing the rest.
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9/22Any programs out there you would rather go unmatch than to attend for fellowship plenty of programs listed as DNR in the Do Me Dirty tabHca in Vegas for sure//really? why? I don't think they are matching this year Curious about why? Seems PP, VA, small, 1on1 procedures. Sure it's HCA but meh, it's Vegas. Can't be that bad.
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9/21What should I do to prepare for the scramble? not feeling well about the match How many interviews did you get? trying to see where i stand..// ended up with about 10 but applied almost everywhere // i got 3 so. // majority match within their top 3 so you gucci. if anything, can snag a decent (or even better) program that goes unfilled. trust. Same question though just in case, what happens in the scramble // scramble is a free for all. Unfilled Programs and unmatched applicants all find out at the same time. Unmatched applicants will have access to the list of unfilled spots. It is then up to the unmatched applicant to reach out to programs and work it out. There is no formal process// Anyone knows if we send a copy of the ERAS application/CV or would a more update word doc CV suffice along with the personal statement. Just trying to have everything coming wednesday // there are no rules. I would just send an easy to read CV plus personalized PS. Programs will be equally desperate to want to fill. ```````
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anyone know # applicants this yearHow many pain spots are there total nation-wide? // 377
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Great work team filling out the reviews this year compared to recent years--keep 'em coming!
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did anyone get a reply from Irvine after submitting a LOI?
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Can we get a MGH review? There are none posted. Just in case they have an open spot (again) this year after matchWork lot, sleep no. APS worky worky. Prior auth fellow. // any program with true APS outside of minimum ACGME requirements is absolute dog water. convince me otherwise Seriously? I had heard this was a more chill place, low hours overall
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why does UCSD have no reviews? thoughts on it?Just wrote one, happy birthday // thanks kinglol its definitely not hated, its a top 3 or top 5 program in the country//I wouldn't say that. alot of that stems from the location but it is very research focused. only nice thing is they have tons of advanced procedures as well unlike Stanford it is losing value however // Agreed. IMO Typical "top tier" programs like BWH/Cornell gonna drop in people's opinion and highly interventional minimal scut/BS programs like BSW/KU and other (sleepers) gonna rise even more. No one cares to work super hard anymore doing bs just for prestige // agreed x 2 // disagree strongly that anything will change, people still flock to programs with name esp if they want academic careers after fellowship No one wants to work hard anymore // i mean why? the payoff isn't worth it. there's no pride, no one appreciates it. // some of us just want to push ourselves to be the best at what they do? // youre confusing hard work with bs scut. managing TAP catheters as a fellow wont make you a better chronic pain physican. stop drinking the academic ivory tower koolaid
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9/20One week to go…Can everyone really say what they felt were good and bad programs. It would help next years class for you to write this at this exact moment since (hopefully) there would be no underlying trolling // there's been plenty of discussion in the discord & people have been filling out the reviews, what more do you want? // yeah I just updated a bunch of reviews, you're welcomeCCF interview day was ass and the program provides nothing special. Ranked it nearly dead last. All reviews on them are accuratelyMy thoughts...
Best advanced numbers: BSW, Kansas, Vandy
Best BB: the above, both Cases, and prob lesser known programs like Nebraska
Worst numbers: NYU, Stanford, UW
Worst hours: BWH, Cornell, Duke (but they are cutting the APS this year), and any other program that has >4w APS (eg. UPenn, Stanford, Vandy...)		My thoughts from a PM&R applicant… (note I didn't interview at BSW/Kansas/CCF since I couldn't stand living in a flyover state)
Best advanced numbers: Vandy, UCSD, Cornell
Best BB: Vandy, UCSD, UCSF, Colorado, UCLA-VA
Best QOL/Least Call: UCLA-VA, Colorado
Worst numbers: NYU, Columbia, Virginia Mason (worst advanced)
Worst hours: BWH, Cornell, Vandy, UC Irvine/// how are Colorado and Tennessee not flyover states? Just say you didn't get interview there. No shame in it. // No hate to this person or specialty but as a PM&R applicant they wouldnt have gotten a BSW or Kansas interview regardless of interest/ties/connections/// LOL OOOOk. Kansas current fellow is PM&R. Cool story tho / color me surprised // original poster here, I didn't apply to BSW/Kansas. Liked the idea of Colorado for skiing and Vandy for the music culture. Didn't see any good qualities about Ohio/Texas/Kansas for a single young applicant without kids// sure sure 		How does Cornell have best advanced numbers when a fellow is doing 5-6 perms? // i would double check your numbers/ confirmed from a fellow with logs. I would double check everyone else who is falling for the hype.
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Silence on all fronts. nothing else to say since we only take in this group instead of share // In the infinite wisdom of one of our discord colleagues, "nobody owes anyone anything." An unfortunate sentiment, but one that many seem to subscribe to // we submitted, I think we're all anxiously waiting. What would you like us to say?Wut lol//I think I say you should write your rank list in Do Me Dirty//regardless this has been a horrible process I can't wait to be done. they need to fix this system Don't do me like that //do you *not* dirty? can I even do that?
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9.15Wonder how BWH losing and BIDMC gaining Dana Farber will affect things Watch your mouth. Lots of BWH fan boys here // kind of a huge hit to them and a huge win to BIDMC but this won't be a problem for a few years //yep they emailed saying no changes soon so won't affect our classStill needs to go through regulatory review and also won't actually happen until an entirely new cancer hospital is built, which is estimated to take at least 6 years, so won't really impact classes for quite a few years // BID used to be the premier pain program years ago before they lost some key faculty and affiliations. Looks like they're getting back on track while BWH is slowly going the opposite direction. BI is trash lol >> hey troll
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9/15Now that ranks are submitted can we be transparent with reviews and post-interview communication? Share the tea I didn't like BWH *drops mic* // why are we deleting that Cornell is overhyped and low advanced volume // bc it's not and it's really good/ some of the last graduating fellows had around 5-8 perm scs. How is that good? //that's pretty not true but also pretty awesome// it's confirmed from graduated fellow. Logs and everything // current fellow in the discord had pretty good numbers of advance two months in sooooo/ it's only done at Cornell rotation so once that block it's done Honestly I felt like nearly all the so-called "top" programs were kinda meh and not that different from other upper-mid tier programs. Also BWH, Cornell, Mayo all work too hard
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9/14Can everyone please put their ranks on?! I did but it seems only a few of us brave souls wanted to shareWhy does it matter how everyone else ranked. Does it help anyone in any appreciable way?Yes it tells me how people truly felt about programs now that no one is trying to troll others
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9.14Does the computer already know? Why can't it tell usI'm guessing close to a 1:1 ratio of applicants to spots so around 380-400 (if only counting those that submitted into NRMP)// where did you get this info // ERAS and NRMP both publish data. Last year ERAS showed ~530 applicants initially applied but >100 applicants dropped off so ~415 went through the NRMP match. (~20-25% attrition). This year ERAS shows ~430 applicants and no NRMP data yet but assuming even 5-10% attrition, we're at a near 1:1 ratio or likely more spots than applicants // they removed the pain management numbers from the most recent ERAS statistics sheet for some reason // weird, i see that too in their August update. I have their old April 2023 file and it shows pain management // they want to continue the anxiety. I think there's less people applying than last year but less if any ppl dropped so it evens out if not more this year // who's continuing anxiety? This data should be reassuring // not really. it's showing that there's more people applying and less attrition bc not as many ppl are dropping //… the data is not showing that.. nothing shows more people applying. 530 people registered for eras last year while 430 registered this year. Everything points to this year being a historically uncompetitive yearSchrödinger cat situation.
We’re in a state of both being matched and unmatched until 9/27. Lol
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9/13anyone else wating to see if they get an interview invite in the next hour or soLol no. It's now up to the algorithm. / i think i still have shot
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9/13Who ended up adjusting their rank list today?I did // me too // sammeee
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9/13Do me dirtyHas to be finalized on 15th right? / lol funny
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9/12Thoughts on george washington He was the first president of the United States of America //two points to that team
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9/12Double scrub!!!!!//ELKE!!!!
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9/12Some programs list less spots on the nrmp quota site than fellows they have. Does that mean they took some outside the match? Wake, st Elizabeth. I saw others too.
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9/12What is the main difference btw Case-UH and Case-Metro?Case UH > Metro due to high (advanced) volume and better overall training// Metro has more numbers on case logs but UH has more advanced procedures.Metro quoted me 2400 procedures. Not sure how much more UH could have. // UH said 1500-2000 so definitely less but still above avg imo, in addition to mroe advanced procedures// Very true, UH more advanced procedures compared to Metro // that's great, write a review! not much is ever said about metro
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9/12Anyone else sent a LOI to their #1 and didnt get a response :/me, feels bad man // at that point should you just move them out of the #1 slot? it's not like they're giving you much to work with... // yea duck em I don't think moving a place out of your #1 increases your chances for other places even if you have no shot at the #1. You'll Match at the highest program on your list that has you high enough on their list to Match. Independent of how many places you have that don't want you at the top…. And yes me too. My response was very neutral, but theyrestill at the top // wouldn't you potentially burn a bridge if they end up matching below you even tho you said they were #1? Don't switch! It's okay that they didn't respond Some programs flat out said they're not responding to shit no matter what you send them. So ultimately, should it be implied that if the program does not respond to your LOI they are not ranking you highly? // no, some programs wont respond no matter what, even if you're ranked highly
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9/12Lost my notes on St. Elizabeth's in MA. Can anyone share thoughts? Basic Info on the program? I liked it, ranked it second, location works for me. They take three fellows a year, hours typically eight to 3:30 PM. Hold, pager three weeks at a time to get about 5 to 6 calls a week per fellow. Don't come in for consults or weekends. About 800 procedures, 3-5 of each advanced. Have to do prior auth. // Looked at NRMP program directory and looks like the quota is only set at 2. Maybe they are filling 1 outside the match?// how do you see how many they are taking // go to the nrmp website, go to options then program directory. You can search the program name and there is information about the program including the current quota / Sorry, I wrote 3 but maybe it's only 2. I feel the review on the tab is accurate to what I thought as well. Good basic programRanked them close to last..very small program
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Could someone share Stanford's case logs?
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9/11Is Henry Ford a sleeper program?x// not sure what the 'x' represents.No. It's a solid program but the name has no weight// thank youGood volume
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9/11Thoughts on Stanford vs Loma Linda