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Do any of the ENT programs NOT qualify for the PSLF program???
Can anyone who interviewed at university of Florida last week update interview impressions prior to the upcoming interview this week? Thanks!
Are there any interns/residents who can comment on ranking/matching programs that were farther away from home/support system because they liked the program better than the programs closer to home? do you wish you would've chosen a program closer to home that might have a stightly worse lifestyle/less fun people over a place where you "clicked" that is further away? < As someone who matched 2h from home but also ranked some distant programs high I can say don't discount the proximity to family. There are definitely many awesome cities to train in. But when you are working 120h weeks and only have a few weeks off a year, you really appreciate seeing your family, and doubly appreciate not having to waste days traveling to see family. And all the more so if you need a nearby support system or have kids requiring an extra hand. Support system is definitely an important factor in choosing residency < I think you can make anything work. I matched somewhere far away from both mine and my spouse's family (we also have kids) and we are very happy. We have made a lot of new friends and really embraced the "residency is an adventure" mindset. We still visit family/friends back home when we can, but it's fun to host them when they visit too. I definitely think you can make it work living far from family, but, like everything else with the application/match, it just depends on what you want.
Given the previous discussion surrounding the application score + interview score: if I am selected off the waitlist for a program, does that suggest that my "application score" is the lowest among everyone else interviewing? < Not necessarily if programs were giving first dibs to people in their geographic area. Plus most programs give more weight to the interview rubric anyway < At one program I was not given an interview, sent the PD a letter of interest, got an interview, then at the interview one of my interviewers complimented me saying I was actually one of the few applicants that got a "perfect" score when this individual was scoring me on the pre-IV rubric. Obviously this interviewer didn't know my situation and I wasn't gonna mention it, but I had some serious questions lol. I assume it had to do with not having a home program plus no geographic ties - could have auto-screened me out. They have to have some way of getting through 600 apps for just a few seats, I get it. Moral of the story: No, its a crapshoot and chances are your app is at least middle of the pack for all interviewees.< absolutely not. Once you show up to ibnterview, equal footing. Most of the interviewers won't even know you were waitlisted. Speaking as someone who matched at a program I came off waitlist for. < I don't think it's "equal footing" < Trust me. At least at our program the residents are in the rank meetings and see the sausage getting made. Rank discussions are almost entirely based on interview day. Everyone is impressive on paper and qualified enough to get an interview, it doesn't matter when you received it. Also remember that just like you have a finite number of interviews, programs have a finite number of spots to give out. They don't waste them on anyone they aren't seriously interested in having at their program.The idea that everyone is on equal footing is pretty absurd. Sure they don't waste interviews on people they don't want but that doesn't mean everyone is on equal footing. If the PD is looking to expand their translational research and theres a PHD who does exactly that they are surely not weighed equally as someone with no research experience. < this, and it was previously said in other threads that your overall rank depends on both your IV score and app score, but IVs hold more weight
So doom mind has taken over... anyone know how to find all the programs with research fellowships? < the OG otomatch forum is the best place to start (
When is too late to send a letter of intent to your top choice? stressing out because I think my #1 is a program I interviewed at a week ago but I don't know when they finalize their rank lists, but I still have a few IVs left. was advised not to send LOI until done with all interviews < this question has been asked plenty of times already below - If your program has already finished interviewing, they likely already submitted their rank lists, so sending a #1 email may not change your current position. But every program is different so who knows it couldn't hurt to send it.< don't stress about the LoI because it does absolutely nothing either way < really? or does it depend on the program < Extensively discussed below. Don't lose sleep about LOIs. You can send it, but it is unlikely to change things. Even if a program hasn't finalized their rank list, it is unlikely to change your position on the rank list over your existing application and interview.
Can anyone clarify frequency of UVA and CO call, aka Q? > +1 for CO call lol>
Can we all redo the call sheet for places we interviewed and standardize it? I think this would really help people > how to bump this... lol
Any Mount Sinai interview impressions? < I would say it's a good time < honestly shocked that there are no impressions, seems like a very lively down-to-earth program for one of the top residencies in the country lol< you could add some if you interviewed there! < i mean i obviously would but havent interviewed yet < my bad! I thought you had already based on your comment but I was mistaken <people may not post them if there are interviews left to go < why not? < I feel like that makes no sense. they are largely helpful for people who haven't interviewed yet. < Exactly... some people feel it would give later interviewers an unfair advantage if they know what to expect. I personally dont care and post my impressions for future cohorts, but I didn't interview at Sinai. Sorry< Copied from last year: "Very nice interview day, colelgial residents, nice faculty. Mix of chatting and standardized behavioral questions < Really enjoyed the day. There was a pre-recorded video for the tour as well as residents Zooming in from their respective hospital locations showing us around. Also, one resident showed us his apartment which was neat - esp w/ concerns about accomodation in NYC. All of the faculty were engaging and interesting to talk to < very well balanced program, felt like i would graduate as a great surgeon, plenty of opportunity for top tier academicians but no research pressure for the private practice inclined"<Can confirm that this is accurate for this year as well, except for the tour is live and well done with multiple residents zooming in from their various sites!
Tennessee Titans losing feels like a win against Vanderbilt's oto superiority to me haha, the underdog story we all needed lol < let's go Bengals #WhyNotUs!<nashville is a trash city < Go Bengals!, also 5-7 flaps a week with a nearly unmatchable peds experience < Who Dey! <Let's Go Buffalo! (congrats to the Bengals...Josh's winter soldiers will see you next week) < Gabe Davis!!! Baller < He's big time. What a game! < Sad night in snowtown...but what a game. ---samvandy's people arent that great +1 <so much fake hate :) > 80% great people, 20% not as much +1 < keep the fake hate coming...its really gonna make peoeple not rank it #1 if they were able to be < classy< We interacted with >70 people on Vandy interview day, what are the chances that out of that many 1-2 give off less than exceptional vibes. I would think it is probably much higher than 1-2 of 20 or so like at most other places. I dont understand why Vandy is getting so much shade thrown at it by a few select people on this sheet. < the fake hate is coming from either someone who didn't get an interview or someone who ranked the program #1 and is trying to dissuade's not gonna work regardless. FYI even the nicest/down-to-earth programs have a few not-so-great faculty, so thanks for stating the obvious
Question: No one likes excessive call and and being overworked really contributes to resident burnout. Many programs have much lighter call schedules and duty hours than others and still train competent surgeons. Given this fact why do some programs insist on having residents cover so many hospitals or cases to the point they are breaking hours resitrctions or are totally burnt out? In essence, why does a resident need to cover every case or see every consult before an attending? Cheap floor labor is one thing, but they certainly slow down operative volume which is the real money maker so Idk if I buy the economic arguement. Thoughts? < There are not many places where residents cover every case done by attendings. Most places have surgery centers or outside hospitals where residents arent involved in the cases. If you really need to crank through four sinus cases in a day or do OCRs without residents you take them there. If you have patients that need lots of in hospital postop care take them to the hospital where residents are invovled. So I think some programs insist residents cover multiple hospitals and cases to the point of breaking hour restrictions is exactly what you said. Residents are cheap, skilled labor. Some attendings in academic settings are helpless with regard to ancillary tasks such as post op orders, scripts, rounding, notes, etc… I don't think any of those programs do it with the intent of education because obviously a lot of those things carry no educational benefit. That being said, I think there is a lot to gain from repetition at this stage in training. Residents also carry very little liability and are fortunate attendings let residents do the things they do without much consequence. It's almost a trade off. > I would agree there is little to gain after a certain point in training. If this is the case, why don't residents collective bargain for a better deal? Certainly some do it for salary and benefits etc, why not hours of their lives? < They do. Google "SEIU resident" > Thats an interesting group. It seems a touch on the political side, rather than strictly resident working conditions tho.. I imagine a lot of things that are real sticking points for ENT/surg sub residents are unique to the specailty and program, not suited for a 20k resident group < not trying to start a mid level hate trend because one thing i like about this site is lack of midlevel discussions but why do they make ~30% more than residents? Interns ok but 3/4/5s?<because of their organizations have been strong lobbying for their scope of practice and pay. Residents essentially have no leverage since we're forced into residency positions via the match and thus no way to bargain for better wages, if residency was more like an actual job application. Programs would have no choice but to raise wages to maintain competitiveness, obviously it's not this simple but it's part of it. > After the match residencies are just as limited by the match too, residents cant be replaced willy nillyAs a resident, you are no longer in medical school. Education is not the primary consideration in the job of resident. You are getting paid for the enrty level job as a doctor. Look at Engineering, Law, and other professions. Same thing. Jobs where you learn more in demand skills pay less and have longer hours. > If education isn't the primary function then I think residents would have even more power to change the system to improve their work life balance right? In most other jobs an engineer or law intern can be fired and replaced, this is extremely burdensome or impossible with the current residency system. > If the residents got together and told the program that they were only going to do call Q4, taking a full post call day, and 1 weekend per month what would stop them? <getting fired and not being able to get another residency. the only way residents have any leverage is with a union. then they can negotiate with the hospital what the contract will actually be.As a resident, you are no longer in medical school. Education is not the primary consideration in the job of resident. You are getting paid for the enrty level job as a doctor. Look at Engineering, Law, and other professions. Same thing. Jobs where you learn more in demand skills pay less and have longer hours. > If education isn't the primary function then I think residents would have even more power to change the system to improve their work life balance right? In most other jobs an engineer or law intern can be fired and replaced, this is extremely burdensome or impossible with the current residency system. > If the residents got together and told the program that they were only going to do call Q4, taking a full post call day, and 1 weekend per month what would stop them? Faculty: I completely disagree with the 2nd sentence. Education IS the primary role of residency. ACGME is the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education. Residency is a time to learn, not practice. You are far closer to a medical student than someone getting a job. Resident here - this is the only 5 years of your life that you are learning without liability. Use it to your fullest advantage. There were times that I didn't think a particular patient encounter etc would been educational and I was proven wrong on multiple occasions. This highlights that sometimes you don't know what's educational and what's not educational until you go through them. The more patients you see the more you learn. The more cases you do the more you learn. There is a plateau I agree but even after doing 100s of sinus cases for example you can still learn something from another one because every patient is different. My personal goal coming out of residency is as competent of a surgeon and physcian in every aspect of patient care include admin bullshit and that's built on repetition. Remember - when you feel misearble, just compare yourself to your neurosurgery colleagues and you feel instanteously better. < As a fresh attending I agree with the above. 5 years ends up not being as long as you think starting out. You get out what you put in for the most part. There were some grads who are going out really not comfortable doing bigger cases and end up being that tubes/tonsils/septum generalist and that's rather sad in my opinion < bread and butter general ENT here. i am $o very $ad < LMAO <you do you, but please dont be the guy doing unnecessary surgery because all you know how to is septoplasties."The more patients you see the more you learn" < this is a very toxic and FALSE mindset to cope with a diminished QOL. 5 years is 5 whole years, and I highly doubt that thinking of tired neurosurgery residents each time I feel beaten down is going to make me feel instantaneously better. But to each their own I guess. +1 < i hope you are not my coresident. anyone who starts throwing around the word toxic at the mention of working is not someone I want in my call schedule. we create the culture of out program and I'm all about those positive vibes. but like you said to each her own. +3 < The person saying "toxic and false" mindset clearly isnt yet a resident since they said "I highly doubt that thinking..." so.. they really have no clue abou residency or the like at this point lol < Dang brutal. I'll take that person as co-resident, we can go to a program that values our personal time, like MCW, Penn State, Vandy, etc. Tons of programs that have great schedules and make amazing surgeons. "More patients = more learning" is obviously true for the most part, but anybody who thinks its a never-ending, completely linear scale is just lying to themselves to make them feel better about their situation - which is fine, you gotta get through... Im just not searching for that situation in residency lol. +2 < OP of this cell, my home program has PGY-5s with great fellowship matches/job opportunities, but they were incredibly overworked, exhausted, and depressed. My away rotation also had similar surgical training/post-residency jobs, but much happier residents due to way better QOL/call schedules. It's hard to create positive vibes when you don't even have the time. And I think it's a toxic mindset because things are much less likely to change if we're expected to be grateful for 28+ hours of "learning" every 2-3 days. < to each their own but this is a surgical subspecialty residency with high intensive training and it's something you should be prepared for going into it day 1. Being a medical student sometimes can have a false sense of how hard people really work because we tend to spoil yall but having "lifestyle" in mind when you select a residency can result in brutal awakenings < What brutal awakening? I think every person with a clue applying into this field has at least SOME sense of the hard work residents put have to put in - no one expects a 9-5 job LOL. But don't fool yourself into thinking you'll be a much better attending because you put in way more hours, you're in for a brutal awakening yourself. > From an attending perspective, the hours that I put in on call as a resident certainly made me a better, more competent attending. I was in a busy home call program with no post call day, so working 40 hours straight and then being back in the hospital the next morning for 5:30 rounds was common. Of course it was difficult, but it prepared me for practice, and in comparison to my residency call, attending call is a breeze. Remember that call doesn't stop once you've graduated residency, and there are no work hour restrictions as an attending. Can you cancel your clinic/OR if you've been up all night for a call case? Sure, but that's a day of lost revenue, dozens of unhappy patients, and no way to build a practice. Whether you're in private practice or academics, you'll be taking general ENT call for the rest of your career, so it's something you should accept. In my experience, those who have the most brutal awakening are those whose call as an attending is worse than as a resident (which can certainly exist in PP)< The person who has it on here about it being nonlinear is right- you WANT to be busy, see a high number of complex cases- there is a balance between not busy and busy programs.. Residency is hard, attending life is way easier but residency prepares you for it. You really don't have any idea how hard residents are truly working as a med student- we are not pulling 120 hour weeks and i dont think thats necessary, but will you have some weeks were you push or exceed 80 hrs? Will you have occasional cases that last 18 hours? Its totally possible and it makes you a better and more competent surgeon.. you can do these in places that still value your quality of life, but if you go into residency expecting not to. be tired, not to feel underappreciated, then you will be disappointed, and you will still have to do it.
when is the latest to send in step 2 ck scores? > Ctrl F > checked and only found a few programs that require it. Not sure if that has changed though?step 2 scores wont change your rank at this point. thats more for getting the interview
anyone waiting to get let into Jeff intro...? < yes
Can someone please clarify the program at UCSD? Does everyone have to do 6 years (1 year of research)?
How many ranking spots by USWNR would you give up for a better location (eg top 5 city vs rural program not within driving distance of family/friends)? < I would drop as many spots as necessary to not live somewhere rural lol +2<what do you consider rural and what are the top 5 cities? < For me, rural is anywhere that I can't order takeout after 10pm. My school (no home program) has everywhere that delivers food closed by 9/10 so if you're stuck in the OR late or working the night shift there's nowhere to grab food. Seems like a small thing but it's super annoying < Lol opposite here, I would drop as many spots necessary so that I can buy a house with garage and yard on a resident salary. All programs will give you great training and most will get ya into fellowship no problem, im all about that QOL. Plus Im tired of renting, ready to grow up lol. < I haven't had a single "city" interview this year that doesn't have like half of the residents owning houses. As long as it's not Boston/NY/SF you're probably fine tbh <what about LA, SD, DC, Philly, and Miami would also be tough without help from a SO or parents? < i'd trade USWNR for QOL & city any day--- rank is not gonna make me enjoy my life for 5 years in the middle of a corn field < idk I'm from a big city and am leaning toward staying in the area but I feel like there are plenty of pros about rural locations. It's definitely not the wasteland you seem to think that it is. < Yeah there are tons of cities you can't buy in. Thats a big reason I'm putting most midwest programs over most coastal areas like Palo Alto, Boston, etc. Although strangely Baltimore is actually super affordable and nice, despite the reputation it has.Personally I think this is better for keeping comment chains straight and having easy access to program info/A vs B/interview dates/etc. < agreed - this is better for rankings, A vs B, interview dates, etc. But Slack is much better for conversation than google sheets...there's a reason why every tech company uses slack for communication and not google sheets haha < I really enjoyed using the slack on interview release day but otherwise have not been using it much +1 > def prefer google doc over the discord in general, but liked having the discord during the interview offer day 11/5 +3
In response to cost of living: Residents salaries are too low. Especially given the high inflation. "The Match" makes it so that we have no leveraging power during interviews with programs to negotiate higher salaries and benefits. My first plan of action will be to initiate a union and collective bargaining agreement at my program. > Are there instances where residents have collective bargain into better call schedules/hours? Some of the worst call schedules are the result of residents having to cover multiple different hospitals. Why not just say, we'll cover 2 but not 4. +1 < Totally makes sense. Dont get why people/higher-ups feel all hospitals in a system need resident call coverage. Most hospitals around the country do just fine without residents (some even better), and many are doing nearly as many cases with similar acuity as the ~115 with ENT residency programs. If you rank based on USWNR, you're doing it wrong < yeah, seems silly that the default on the otorank tab has reputation weighted almost the same as QOL/training +1
Tufts Children's Hospital announced that it will be closing in a few months earlier today. Should be interesting to see how that impacts peds training for subspecialties like ENT, like how do you justify doing anything surgical if you don't have a peds floor to fall back on if anything goes wrong? < Not sure about this specific situation, but there are some howpitals that admit both adult and pediatric patients. Not doing LTRs with that but for tonsils and tubes its fine. > our nurses flip a shit every time a 15-18yo trauma patient tries to get admitted to the adult hospital because they're not "peds certified" so not sure if tufts will start admitting kids to their adult sideI think that this means their Peds ENT department is toast.. the residents can go to boston childrens (they already rotate there) but the 3 Peds ENT faculty there will certainly have to find new jobs which is crazy < luckily there is insane demand for peds ent everywhere so they'll land on their feet < right now? our peds ENT department is still down 30-50% by volume < The peds ent demand has plummetted. It was crazy pre-pandemic
Does Miami interview T-32 applicants separately? or does everyone interview for it and can rank it separately? < Miami interviews all applicants together, but they submit a separate rank list for T32If I applied for both will I be put on both rank lists (assuming I'm not a DNR)? > my rezrate interview invite specifies I am interviewing for T-32 spot < where did you see this? I may have missed it > click the "schedule interview!" button on the original rezrate interview invite. mine says "T-32 interview" by my scheduled date < Ohh gotcha so maybe I am only interviewing for the regular spot if I don't see it?
how late is too late to send a thank you after an interview? also may be sending a love letter to the same program. < Based on previous posts, seems like rank lists are pretty much finalized pretty soon after interviews are over, so debatable if it even makes a difference. I'd just send it ASAP, can't hurt
Are applicants on level playing field once they get II? in other words, how large of a part does interview play in the program's ranking list assuming an applicant didn't have red flags during the interview? < For the most part yes. Stats and CV get you in for the interview, once there everyone has potential to match. Obviously some folks who are more impressive on paper are likewise impressive in person and at an advantage, but for the most part rankings are based on the day's performance and interactions. < thanks for the input! just wondering if this is perspective from an interviewer, or a fellow applicant? < as a resident, this is correct at my institution. applications do get referenced when debting final rank order list but we interview scores take priority. every applicant we interviewed had an amazing application. step scores don't matter unless they're <250, most people honor all of their clerkships, and research/PS get talked about in interviews so interview scores usually encompass everything < "step scores don't matter unless they're <250" - Jesus, how many people truly have 250+ scores?! < about 40% of the 40 applicants that I interviewed (smallish community program) < i'd assume most people have neutral to neutral positive interviews, so how do they narrow down applicants for ranking after that? scores? pedigree? EC? i'm curious how significantly an interview score would move an applicant up or down < my program interviewed 60-70 people and only single digits had <250 < "step scores don't matter unless they're <250" - could you talk more about this? STEP-1 average for ENT has been ~248 the past few years and 250 seems to be a really high cutoff, what kind of consideration is being given to applicants with <250?Varies by program how much weight is given to your application score (%-wise), but rank list is typically your application's score plus your interview scores. Interview scores matter more. < I was under the impression that once you get the interview its more or less a level playing field, any faculty input or residents on adcoms? < not an even playing field. You have an application score + interview score at most programs < also, i'd argue based on past years % of home & away matches, its not even playing field-- a lot of programs seem to want people they know. Every program and faculty member is differrent. But if you got the impression the interviewer didn't read your application, thats a sign that its more of an even playing field. If they asked about all kinds of nitty gritty from your personal statement and research projects. Then they are weighing those things more heavily and want to make sure they are legit. I'm one of those insensitive clods that doesn't read applications until the day of the interview, then asks questions about your research projects bc Im more interested in research than how you fell in love with the anatomy of the head and neck. But that's just me.take a look at the otorank tab. as much as your ranklist diverges from those weights and measures is about how much program's differ in their weights and measures
Any programs for sure doing a second look type weekend? I'm trying to plan visits but also don't want to duplicate trips < MCW is, Hopkins is, I think Jeff too. Thats all I remember off the top of my head < Jeff's is virtual < Oh yeah thats rightanyone have more information on Hopkins second look? < Haven't heard anything, just remember Dr. Hillel mentioning it in the interview.
Intern here. Good luck as you head into match day. I just wanted to share a little hype for the specialty here. At the halfway point in my intern year, I can say that coming back onto an ENT rotation after being off-service reaffirms how awesome it is to train in otolaryngology. Even though an off service rotation may have more predictable hours or call, the stuff we do and see in ENT blows my mind. Few surgical specialties offer the mix of clinic and OR procedures while spanning patient populations ranging from newborns to the elderly. We get to help people speak, hear, eat, and smile. We work closely with SLPs and audiologists. Sure, there are long cases and difficult treatment situations, but few fields offer the mix of cases and pathologies we see in our field. I have met a few tired otolaryngologists, but never found an unhappy otolaryngologist. Plus, if you look at current healthcare market forces, the job market for our field is excellent. Wishing you all the best as you apply to this rewarding field. < +1
I know a similar question has been asked before, but is it advisable to let a program know that they're your #1 during the actual interview? Im confident that they're my #1 due to personal geographic connection < I told my #1 that they held that spot during my interview. I'll be sending an LOI anyway but I don't think it will hurt especially this late in the cycle when you've seen most of the programs you're going to see
What's the call schedule at Wayne State? > home call with post-call day > Lol but don't let that decieve you. Although its better than it used to be, you're still driving all across detroit, and the post-call day I'm pretty sure is out by "noon" unlike most places where its 8-10am. Plus your coming in on non-call weekends to round a often.
anyone know whether interns are typically allowed to attend conferences? (is submitting for things now a bad idea) < Probably depends on the conference. If you have an M2/M3 on the project it might not be a bad idea to have them listed as presenting author even if you're first author just so you don't have to worry about it < Most programs will allow you to attend if you are a presenting author. Sometimes it's easier to get the time to present as an intern due to off-service rotations and call responsibilities. Most programs encourage research and academic activity so they will do their best to accomodate and encourage it by allowing you to attend a conference each year. < yes our program encourages it and will cover the costs
Any med students at the Trio San Diego meeting right now? I know zero people here +1 > try the discord
Anyone having a difficult time making their rank list and have resorted to using silly things such as how in tune their social media accounts are or how strong their website/virtual presence is? < ordering my top 3 came down to which cities had my favorite clothing stores...<I have categories like vibezzz and bougie lyfe because apparently my linear brain is no good now lol, so keep the social media columns lol < I have a heavily-weighted category for "quality of apartments on my budget" lol, then spend more time on Zillow than on the progams website. < I can't get off of zillow so glad to know i'm not the only one < Woo, a fellow Zillow friend! Also, seems to have other listings that zillow doesn't!
I know several programs like Loyola, USC, OSU, Georgetown etc. have 9+ home applicants this cycle. What are the odds of even matching at these places, especially if I didn't do an away? Seems like my interview was a waste< I can't speak to the other programs listed. But I have heard that Loyola will likely only take 1 of their students. Still, there is no way to know who will ultimately match at their program. The match is kinda random. So no sense in overthinking it. Just my 2 cents. < I've heard things like programs only "taking" a certain number but that doesn't seem logically possible. Do you mean they only rank X home students? unlikely. Do they only rank-to-match (by whatever definition) X home students? Also unlikely. Would they rank a sub-par applicant over a top-tier applicant purely because the prior is a home student? unlikely again. I really feel like programs just make a big list of the students they want based on what they know about them. Home students of course have an advantage in allowing faculty to know more about them and perhaps demonstrating they are a good fit (which explains the trend of matching at least some home students), but if they simply are not a good fit for the program then having that connection won't help. I don't think it is any more complicated than that. I could be wrong, but thats my opinion.<programs rank the home students just like any other applicant. Some are ranked to match, some are not. Maybe none are ranked to match (top 3-5). I would only have your sentiment if the program you're applying to is made up 80-100% of home students which I'm betting it's not. < +1 Look at the current residents to see how often they match home students. Some programs and PD take a different approach to their home students. My med school took very few home students (1 of 12) between pgy1-5, but most students matched at solid residency programs. My program has 5-10 applying every year and most usually suck so we take the couple standouts and the rest go elsewhere < lol. Can't suck that much if they're still going somewhere.
Does anyone have any experience with planning a wedding before knowing where you end up matching? Will programs accomodate getting a weekend off or 3-4 days off for an intern? Or is it better to wait until after matching before booking a wedding date? I don't want to rub senior residents the wrong way by saying I NEED to have this particular week/days off. < If you haven't scheduled it yet, then I would wait until you match but honestly I would imagine most programs and co-residents work to accomodate your schedule. So many programs on the interview trail bragged about all the resident weddings going on, often with a bulk of residents actually present. Many places are focused on QOL and personal time nowadays. They don't care when you take your vacatoin, so unless you're at some NYC or other malignant program, odds are high they will work with you to schedule around your date (just dont book anything until talking about it with your program). Maybe have a planned/ideal date before the match and have all wedding plans lined up, but don't actually put a deposit down until you can confirm getting a vacation that week. < Awesome, Thank you everyone for the valuable input! Just a follow up- do you think after we match (*fingers-crossed*) we can communicate with the PC to confirm a vacation for a wedding or would we have to like wait till we start residency in the summer of 2022 when the new chiefs are coordinating everyone's vacations and creating the schedule for the new year? Faculty: as soon as you know, reach out.Resident here - I know our program would be happy to give you a weekend or maybe 3 day weekend for a wedding. Anything longer than that and you may have to use one of your 1 week vacations <how tough is it as an intern to schedule your week long vacations?< Faculty: getting vacation is not that hard. Getting a specific week may be harder. Most rotations only allow 1 person to take vacation at a time. If you are on gen surg and the Gen surg upper level has already scheduled that week off, no one else can take that particular week off. You may have to do your vacation the week before or after. Gets particularly difficult around holidays/spring break. <taking vacation as an intern isn't hard because we don't factor interns into the call schedule. At least at our program, interns are pretty free to take whenever they want as long as it's not overlapping with a bunch of others on the same rotation < same at my program. you're restricted from taking vacation on some off-service rotations but other off-service rotations and ENT services are usually flexible since we don't take primary callMost ENT programs are still trying to figure out what to do with PGY1 for the 6 months they are on ENT, so 1 week vacation during your ENT rotations wont be tough. But most places have you do Gen surg for 6 months before going onto ENT rotations. Gen surg works you like a dog and doesn't care about what plans you have made. So on second 6 months of PGY1, taking an arbirtary week of vacation shouldnt be a problem. First 6 month, while on Gen surg, dont count on it.< I don't think any of the programs ive interviewed at have more than 2 months of actual gen surg and its often scattered around PGY1 year, plus at some places (ie. UMich) gen surg is actually a super nice rotation. But yes, overall I have heard from many residents scheduling your preffered vacation week is pretty easy especially when on ENT< Every program I've seen so far does not have 6 full months of Gen Surg. The most I've seen is 3 months of a true surgery intern experience (either gen surg, plastics, neurosurg, SICU). The rest are more relaxed rotations like anes, omfs, rads, radonc, etc.) < Faculty: we do this -plus it is mixed up: you may have 2 ENT folowed by gen surg , then rads, then ENT again. If you need time off (say in in Oct), our PC can place you on an easier month like rads where you have more flexibitity then gen surg
anyone have MUSC interview impressions? +2 < yes! Great comaraderie with residents, a lot of new attendings currently being hired and seems promising. overall good experience
Is it reasonable to send a letter to your top 2 or 3 programs outlining what you like about the program and why you're a good fit (obviously only telling 1 they're #1)? < lol this was answered like 456 times below <I think LOIs and thankyou letters are the most frequently asked questions this year. Looking at the gen surg sheet, it seems like its more of an expected thing in other fields. So maybe people are getting conflicting advice from their dean's office and non-ENT mentors. But for almost every ENT, program ranklists are finalized on the last day of interviews. < For ours, they have a separate meeting a week or so after the last interview to make the rank list.. then the PD is the one to submit cna can make small changes if they wantFaculty - answered this below too- only send your #1 to one program and don't send anything to the others.. even #1 email questionably makes no difference, but sending emails where it doesn't say you are #1 has an equally low chance of a negative effect and will not help you positively.. spare yourself the time.
I'm a dual applicant who has recently had a lot of (concerning) thoughts about wishing to match into the other specialty. Do I chalk it up to cold feet / fear of not matching or do I give it some consideration? I got enough interviews to hopefully match entCall schedule is great at Jeff. Not sure what a power weekend is, but PGY2's work Friday/Sunday and PGY3's work Saturdays. Otherwise call averages to about 1x / week < So do they usually have 3 weekends off as a resident? > So the PGY2 works either Friday or Sunday, or they work both if on call that weekend? How often are weekends worked? and then call is 1x per week on top of that?Good for you planning ahead and having a backup plan. And even better if that backup plan ended up being your #1 choice and you match there. As much as people like to bash the match, this would be an example of it working out for the benefit of students. Being able to change your mind in fourth year is a good thing.Also want to let OP know that you are totally not alone! I dual applied, genuinely not being sure what I wanted and have fallen in love with both fields. Some days I lean one way or another but I genuinely have found programs in both specialties that I am confident I would be happy in. I expect my top five to be mixed, which though is not where I thought I would end up in this process, I am finding comfort in. <+1 interesting >> OP here, thank you for saying this!! I did feel like I was alone and had a hard time feeling like I would be making the "worse" choice and giving up on a great specialty for one that is more work but which I'm honestly more in love with? Ugh what a journey. < also a dual applicant who received > 20 ENT interviews and will be choosing the other specialty bc i realized through interviewing it is a better fit for me. so again, you are not alone residency is gonna be the hardest 5 years of your life and it's designed that way to give you the best preparation for your future career - big decision and you shouldn't just jump into something that you may be overworked, and not happy
What is Jeff's call schedule? Do they have power weekends?
Does UTSW share the specific interview schedule w faculty members? < Yes.
Any trickle left? < sorry, doubt it +1
has anyone heard from Mount Sinai/Icahn about interview details?> nothing yet for me > is there a social event? < info just emailed out
If we are planning on visiting a school just for our own purpose, is it worth reaching out to the PD/residents to ask for recommendations and a little nudge of "i'm serious"I don't think it would hurt.Don't expect it to change your place on their ranklist, but residents, PC and maybe even PD could be helpful in pointing out where to go and what to do in their city. < I would try to reach out and ask for a brief tour. I asked and they were really nice to set me up with someone who can show me around!
Was told by a faculty member that they are allowed to tell the people ranked to match (aka at a 5 resident program, their #s 1-5 ranks) that they're ranked to match. Has anyone heard of this? < not allowed, but maybe they do it <Why would they not be allowed to? My understanding is they can tell you all they want. But they can't ask you where you're ranking them. Just like you're allowed to email a program and tell them you're ranking them 1. There's also some discussion to be had on what "ranked to match" means. Does it mean within the number of spots they have or where they've historically matched to? In any case, the match is set up such that you shouldn't let it affect your rank list. Rank your preference, not where you think you'll be ranked highly <+1 rank according to YOUR priorities < how does this make sense? if i have an interview in a big city im really fond of, but it was a top program and my interview was meh, why would i put that over a program i got great vibes from, but is not in an ideal place for what i like? < it all depends on what you value more. If you can tolerate "meh" for a nice location and prestige then go for it. Some people might be fine with it and others not. Sounds like you'd prefer the great vibes. < programs have a culture for sure, but if it was one resident that made your experience meh, consider that resident wont be there for most of your residency.Don't believe this ranked to match thing. It means different things to different people. They only use it so they can sound committed but not really commit. And you can't ask them what they actually mean by it. THAT ironically is a match violation. < Its not a match violation for programs to reach out and tell you that you are ranked highly or ranked to match or whatever.. they cant ask you what you ranked them. <and you can't ask "So ranked to match, are we talking like top 5 in your 5 resident program?"
By when are programs required to submit their rank list?I believe it's close to first week of March?
Is it common practice to send a "letter of intent" to your top choice program? If so, should they be short & sweet or go into the details of why they're your top choice? Also, can these make a difference at all for programs?? < Ctrl + F is your friendnot expected, not required, doesn't make a difference < resident here, we finished our final rank list hours after interviews, it doesn't change unless there's some huge red flag that comes to light. it's nice to send a letter to your #1 because if you match there, they'll know they were your #1. Wont change your ranking though. < heard this was the case at both my home and away programs.Hoping these don't matter— think it just adds more anxiety to an already stressful process
anyone planning on turning otorecall into an anki deck? love the concept, hate the actual app :(what do you hate about it? < not OP but can't edit cards to add images/context, the 1-5 rating system for each card doesn't make as much sense when learning new cards, etc. anki is the GOAT, not sure why they made a whole new app <apps are much more difficult to edit and copy. this protects the integrity of the questions and answers being correct. it also protects their IP and forces people to give up an email address to the sponsor.happy to help if anyone is making an anki deck out of otorecall
anyone know if the call structure at baylor is still home call? Yes
Observation on the otorank tab. There are 78 programs that are currently listed as having case numbers over the national average. Not sure how this makes sense if there are only ~125 programs listed. < either it's because it's an average, not a median, or because the column is full of crap <-- also question on otorank tab. Michigan has a 0 for all subspecialties representated, is that true? < Unlikely, there's a ton of programs down at the bottom that just don't have anything filled out. I filled out some of the VCU information just based off of what they said at interview day but there's a lot of missing data overall < Also remember that averages are based on past years, not the current. It's possible for case volume to increase at programs and beat the average where they didn't previously. < no sleep specialist, sleep surgeon at Michigan< Umich has 2 faculty doing hypoglossal nerve implants and other sleep surgery < up until 2010 you could take the sleep boards without a fellowship. "key indicators" (not official) for sleep training during residency UPPP, IX stims, Mandibulomaxillary advancements, TOR BOT resections, Hyoid suspensions, and how to read sleep studies.For the "all subspecialties represented", is this literally just asking whether or not they have a fellowship-trained sleep surgeon? Every program I know has at least one HN, FPRS, Neurotology, Rinology, Peds, and Lary so that probably shouldn't be a "point" for having those 6. We should define "all subspecialties represented" at least for otomatch. Personally whether or not a program has a sleep-trained doc won't affect my rank list so this is an arbitrary point for me, but it bugs me seeing the discepencies when programs and otomatch posters use this phrase. < There are definitely programs that don't have all of those six subspecialists (typically neurotology) < Oh, I didn't know that was allowed. <lol, also not every program has a laryngologist < Yeah I feel like a lot of people are misusing that stat to mark programs that don't have sleep (like UMich having a zero there) but it's really for these other programs that are missing one of the big 6. We need a better way to regulate it (maybe have the cell locked if the program stats are confirmed by a resident?) < since we are already weighing each column, why not use an integer 1-8 (Allergy, HN, rhino, FPRS, Oto, Peds, Lary, & Sleep) to show how many subs are there. Then change the weight to 1/8th of what it currently is. < +1 I vote for the Interger idea (1-7 or 1-8, idk if allergy needs a point - to confusing of overlap with rhinology).dont know why laryngologist or FPRS would count but not sleep. Would argue sleep is more important to a complete ENT's training than FPRS for sure <I would disagree with your argument for sure +4 <tons of PP ENTs do UPPP for sleep without a fellowship, just like everyone in PP does ESS without a rhinology fellowship. < Also disagree. A huge part of PP/general ENT is local recon for bening or early malignant skin cancer. Super helpful to train under a FPRS specialist to prepare for that, just like you wanna learn FESS from a rhinologist, VC injection's from a laryngologist, OCR from an otologist, etc. Even though a general ENT does all of those things, I'd want to learn from a subspecialist. Because it is so new, sleep is often so well covered by laryngologists or H&N (ie. UMich), so I feel the sleep training does not yet correlate with having a sleep specialist. As the field grows and diverges though, it will definitiely become just as important to have a separate subspecialist as Lary or FPRS. Same thing appened to Lary like a decade or two agoLol you dont need a FPRS guy to know how to recon skin lesions. Thats some basic junior level shit. And it's not something you really want as a private guy because they dont pay squat even if theyre fun little cases. Im a generalist and I do them occasionally but it really doesnt pay the bills. < PMFFs pay pretty well and arent junior level stuff. Anything you can justify as an m-plasty, z-plasty or advancement flap pays pretty well. But nothing pays like doing nasal endoscopies and in-office balloon sinuplasties tho. And those recon cases do screw up your schedule because you have to coordinate with Derm. < lol @ "basic junior level shit" -- who even talks like that.. skin cancer lesions vary in complexity, just like any type of recon, from just standard closures to free flaps- they can be super complex and there is a lot to learn IMO- you dont NEED any subspecialty person to do anything.. you also can literally learn everything on the job, but it certainly helps when you are evaluating your choices for a well rounded training < No need to get butthurt guys but it's seriously a skin lesion you act like nobody else has seen advanced skin cnacer
Well team, I am happy to say I finished my interviews and successfully did them all in an old pair of sweatpants. Lovin this virtual life < an American hero!< some of the societies have student and resident travel grants/awards for presenters. ask the society where you will be presenting for details.
For COSM, if I am second author and presenter will they reimburse my travel or no? < ask your dept <COSM wont, but your dept may
47<yes!! LOL<Did we all send these emails today? < naw Im doing next week < Is it bad if we aren't planning on sending an email? < no it barely matters to the one place
Do programs usually have a PGY-specific curriculum that each year follows? I.e. are interns or PGY-2s given texts or recommendations on what they should know? Or is it all just self taught? <Depends from program to program. It seems like the places that have a set curriculum are generally on a 2 year cycle, so each topic should be covered at least twice during your residency+1<It seems like some programs definitely do this with certain OR cases. For example, our program generally assigns tonsils, tubes, septos, turbs to interns based on the rotations. Your knowledge is generally expected to follow these rotations.
When do decisions for Academy presentations usually come out? < Last year I believe it was late May/early June
Does anyone know the interview times for UNC, trying to figure out what the schedule may be on 2/5! +1
Counted just 40 total interview slots left on the autocalander for this cycle! The last 10-15% of them all. Good luck wrapping it up everyone.
If you dont already have a back up plan please begin prepping! Don't count on their being anything in the SOAP including prelim programs. You also can't count on their being one of those highly sought after research fellowships after the match. Clarify your school's policy on delaying graduation, think hard about if you want to try for ENT again if you dont match. < great advice < discuss with your home program if they would be willing to sponsor a research year for you if you don't match < I know this is necessary, but it makes my heart hurt <+1 :( < It's important to be able to move quickly during SOAP and it's difficult to do this right after you learned you didn't match. Reach out to your Dean/mentors directly and have a personal statement prepared (for GS prelim for example) if that's your back up plan. Be prepared to answer why you didn't match. It's painful but you will get asked on phone interviews for SOAP.
anyone feeling like its hard to differientiate programs since they all highlight strengths? -__- feel like my rank list will be based on location Same lol, a difference in ranking of like 20 arbitrary doximity spots means nothing to me when location is involved +2 > I have no idea how doximity rankings are made-- more reason not to care
Has AAFPRS sent acceptance notifications for COSM? < no
Can someone fill in interview impressions for: MCW, Jefferson, UConn, UChicago? EVMS and Loma Linda too!
Interns: how much should I read into email responses from PDs? I've gotten anything from "good luck on the match!" to "we hope to see you again soon". Not that I would ever let these answers impact my rank list, but looking back after the match, did you feel like these emails gave you small clues regarding where you eventually matched?? < so many +1s to this < it's really tough to say.. I really don't think there's a solid answer and anything we do hear would be anecdotal < means nothing, got these and didn't match last year...< no way to know really. i had a couple programs send things suggesting that I would be ranked highly, and I ending up matching at my #1 but they were pretty tight-lipped when i sent my letter of intent < what was in the response to your LOI?? Deleted: "< No, I thought they were useless. I ended up matching at my #1, but received no post-interview communication other than a very generic "thank you for interviewing" the day after interviews. Avoid playing some three dimensional chess with yourself."
The interview impressions tab got all messed up i think someone accidentally copied a random conversation there an easy way to undo the whole page? +1Is there a specific row with a problem. it looks pretty good to me. <Eastern Virginia, George Washington, BIDC, Detroit, etc.
Is it possible to SOAP into categorical Gen surg programs? Or are prelim Gen surg spots the only optiononly prelim spots, I think very few categorical spots left on soapFaculty: see nmrp reports table 2 and . Last column is what is available to SOAP on Monday. In 2020, I know 2 ENT spots were open to SOAP on Monday (had a student go umatched as Covid hit). Going to make a guess that 2 of the 150-200 umatched applicants snatched up those 2 spots during SOAP
I know there is a call schedule tab but was wondering if someone can confirm UC Davis' call schedule, there's a lot of info on that one tab and it's kinda buried - any info would be super helpful, thanks!<Not sure about other sites but at Davis, it's in house and averages out to Q4 if I remember correctly < agreed, one of the residents said it ranges from Q3 to Q5 < Thank y'all!
"I hope this won't come off as insensitive and I really don't want to upset anyone, but what are the odds of not matching if I have over 20 interviews. I'm a pretty normal/personable person and don't think I've bombed any interviews or anything. < Based on the NRMP data, your chances of matching are >90% if you have more than 14 rank slots. Sounds like you have good odds! < appreciate the feedback! It seems like this will be an even worse match year than last so certainly have a lot of anxiety about it all even though I know I probably shouldn't < am I the only one who doesn't think it'll be a worse match? genuinely curious why people think that +2 < aren't there more applicants this year than last? doesn't that automatically lend to worse match rates? < aren't there more MD applicants and fewer DO/IMG applicants this cycle? < Easily 20+ more DO applicants than most years" < Match rates # of IV: 7-9: 67%, 10-12: 75%, 13-15: 94%, >15: 98%, for USMD Seniors 2 app cycles ago, and the number of apps and such isn't really much different splitting hairs at that point, be optimistic <<<< I believe there were only 2 people with that many interviews who didn't match last year. Unless you have a severe personality disorder or glaring red flag that is only apparent in person, you should be safe.I think you will match! Good luck! < use the tableau to see your chances of matching "Faculty here with some advice: Right now focus on remaining interviews. If you are done with interviews, adopt a “hope for the best, plan for the worst” mentality. With 20 interviews, you have great odds (>90, 95?, 98?, 99?). Exact number really doesn’t matter. Even with a 99% chance of matching, there is still a small chance of not matching. There may only be a 1% chance you won’t match but if you are that unlucky 1, then it 100% happens to you and it 100% sucks. There are normally 500-600 applicants a year, so if 550 apply and only 350 spots, 200 of you will not match. If you only had a few interviews, then your chance of not matching are higher so you need to be more prepared. If you get the unfortunate email on Black Monday, everyone will be in the same boat whether they had 1 interview or 20. You will need to act quickly for the SOAP process. It is basically compressing the entire application/interview/match cycle down to a couple of days. I encourage you to ponder a bit about what you would do (Prelim, research, SOAP to IM) now while you have the luxury of time. Preparing for the worst now will make that easier if it happens. The facts show most of you will be ok: 2/3 will match, 1/3 will not. Hope and pray you end up in the first group, but think about what to do if you end if in the second. < Thank you for writing this! Really hard pill to swallow but I've definitely gotta think about backup plans" <+1
If we send a #1 letter to a program, what are the odds that they share that information with others (ie applicant's home program) and it ends up hurting your ranking elsewhere?> think these will only potentially hurt you if you send multiple to different programs, doubt they tell your home program outright < What about sending a LOI to a program's research track/clinical track, do you think that will tank your rank position on the other track at the same program? <letter saying you really want to do clinical may hurt your application for the research track < What about the other direction? Very unlikely they will share #1 letters. < some programs like to brag about matching in their top 5 or 10, but they don't really share who ranked them #1 < These people barely have time to respond to our letters with a thoughtful response, odds they are calling eachother to talk about said letter is approaching 0
how many of y'all are going to COSM in Dallas in person? < im planning on it +3 < personally, I'm not leaving my apartment until the last virion of covid has disappeared from the earth. hopefully residencies will let me work virtually for a year or two
I feel like interviews have gone well, but have recieved no post interview communication from PDs or anything. Is this a bad sign? Are others hearing from programs at all? < i hadnt heard anything, but i just got an email and it was so vague and confusing i felt much better before < haven't heard anything<one program said up front during the introduction that they don't send communication afterwards and to please not look at that as negative feedback. I've been on a good number of interviews and haven't received anything. Don't worry my friend, you got this:)No, aside from a generic response to the 1-2 places I have sent thank you letters, have heard nothing. Just keep doing you for the rest of the interview season. > +1 > please do be honest if you have heard!I have not and I think of myself as a good candidate! Good luck!
Can anyone share details about Iowa T32 interview? When did it start, format, how long, etc. 7 x 20 min interviews and then hour-long resident presentation, started 8 am CST! < Very chill interview tbh, everyone was super friendly +1 < thank you!!!!
Anyone know the interview dates for the following programs: Montefiore/Albert Einstein, Univ of South Florida Morsani, Stony Brook University. Trying to update IV dates to see how many programs still have IV dates remaining for those of us hoping for trickle (even this late in the game)< sorted the sheet by color so all the pink/finished schools are at the bottom and stilling interviewing/unknown dates at the top. Can anyone else confirm if any other are finished (even if you don't know the dates)?I don't have the dates, but I can confirm that Montefiore/Einstein is done with interviews per an email exchange I had with their PD. I believe Stony Brook is done as well
Are any of you going to check out the programs you've interviewed at in-person? Some PDs at programs I've interviewed at gave an "unofficial" invitation to stop by the program if i'm ever visiting the city. As much as I would like to do this, I can see this possibly being an unfair advantage creating bias for those applicants who are able to afford traveling <for sure its not fair. its also geographically biased, but its the system we are in. work the system this year, change it when you are PD. < lol at "unfair advantage for applicants able to afford traveling", back in my day no one cared if you could afford traveling - it was expected. I understand circumstances have changed, just a funny statement. < I don't think the circumstances have changed at all, I think people have come to appreciate an inequity in the system though. <during in person interviews, i spent 17k going on 15 interviews. and i wasn't rich. it sucked. but everyone did it. just added it to the lump of student loans. < Agree, I don't understand where the inequity is. Everyone has the opportunity to take out additional loans to fund travel expense - that's what everyone has always done. I don't think I know a single person whose parents paid for them to go through the interview process; I'm sure it exists, but it's far from the norm<I think a lot of programs who have said this at least during my interviews have also said that their rank lists will be submitted right after interviews and that it wouldn't affect the program's ranking of the applicant < Kinda wish we could do it like ophtho. Programs submit their rank list, then there is a few weeks to allow for low pressure second looks while applicants make their rank list. < que "back in my day" "I had to take out 15K & it sucked, so idc if you have to take more loans too"
67<copied this from about 200 rows below referring to this: has anyone interviewing at UCLA this saturday seen the otomatch drama from last year? their cohort is still not diverse <I heard about it, but it's long past now. For those wondering, just look up UCLA in last year's chat. < searched UCLA and didn't find anything too damning in the first few comments. Guessing this is just a troll. <I don't think it's a troll, but you had to go far back to find it < All i have to say is wow... < LA Times article is very slanted toward VA employee's side. If you look at the trio combined section meeting archives last year you can get the PD's side of the story. <couldnt find it, can you link it here? <video is no longer on Trio website. The talk was "WHY THINGS MAY NOT GO RIGHT IN CLINICAL PRACTICE: LEADERSHIP, FOLLOWERSHIP AND THE ROLE OF BIAS" You can see the panel members in the program here:< Naw. What's the scoop? Should I have declined my interview? < Yeah, what happened? < VA attending was going to get fired, he preempted with discrimination lawsuit with lots of salacious claims. <idk I think his painting of the scenario was oddly specific to be an outright lie < lots of people's fantasy life is oddly specific. <inappropriate slide show at resident roast in 2006 was probably true, other details who knows.<please take this row with a grain of salt. there may be some applicant gamesmanship going on here, negging on a program the (re)poster has at top of her list. < I don't think anyone on this forum is really in a position to say one way or the other whether those allegations did or did not occur. We're all reading secondhand accounts, and the people that were actually involved probably no longer have any incentive to speak much further on this issue. I think most people probably come to this issue with their own biases/life experiences and will see in it what they choose to see. Some will assume that any allegation of discrimination is tied to the desire for secondary gain ("the race card"). If you're tired of hearing or reading about these kinds of things, imagine how tiring it is to be on the receiving end of the actual discrimination. UCLA is a name brand program in a highly desirable location in California, applicants would rank the program highly regardless of just about any scandal that could occur. I don't think "negging" a program on an anonymous spreadsheet is gonna change that, even if that was the poster's intent
As someone with very few interviews, every day feels just really discouraging. Unsure of what I'll do if I don't match and just wake up every morning so filled with dread. While I've prepped as best I can for interviews, I keep replaying them in my head and wondering if the 15 minutes could actually have helped me at all. It just feels like no matter what I did my interview wouldn't blow anyone away < +3 same boat as you and everything you describe I feel everynight and every morning...definitely one of the worst times but glad to know I am not alone :)Hang in there man, Im in a similar spot, but what I keep telling myself is that while I feel ENT is the best field in medicine, its not the only great one. And I think of other things I am really looking forward to in life once Im done w this process and being a student. While the anxiety sucks now, I know its all gonna work out and we will each in up in good places > You've made it this far & obivously a strong candidate to get any interviews! In the next few weeks I'm gonna start talking to residents & mentors about back-up plans-- feel like it'll help me channel the stress into something that could help me positively in a worst case scenarioTotally sucks... Try to hang in there. I'm just trying to spend a little bit of time doing the things that bring me joy outside of medicine, helps give me a bit of perspective. But it definitely sucks. I think the poster to the left gave solid advice that while ENT is awesome I think a lot of us could be happy in other fields as well (if it came to that :/)
can someone clarify what is actually "illegal" (or discouraged if thats to strong of a word) post interview communication? how much are programs actually allowed to tell us about where we stand on their rank list etc <either side can tell the other side anything they want. you just cannot expect a response or penalize them for not telling you anything. < They can tell you all they want, but they can not ask you to reveal your preferencesIllegal would be anything programs did that broke equal opportunity employment law, or if an applicant forged their step 1 score.
A match violation, would be anything that breaks the agreements each side signed with NRMP
An ethical breach is way more nebulous and personally defined. Its sorta like, the should doctors buy advertisements. You will get a wider range of self imposed rules for this.
I feel unsure about everything, gets worse the closer we get to Match Day…that's it, just wanted to share lol+3 < you aint alone. reading into every response to a thank you note (the 1-2 i've sent) and convincing myself if they liked me they would have chosen diff words which means im doomed lol < yes! Ive convinced myself that if they wanted me they would have said, You have been chosen! LOL < Its very different from college and med school where you get acceptances and have choices.< +3 feel all of these comments so much < +1 here feeling the same exact way. keep questioning to myself how could i possibly be one of the 2-5 people that would be selected for a program amongst the incredible people I've met along the trailI found this comforthing whan I was applying A man’s heart plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps. Proverbs 16:9 I used to be more eloquent in 2016... ---sam +1
Is there a social for Baylor? Interviewing tomorrow but didnt see anything about a social.+1
For the 1/14 UChicago interview, do we know if we are AM vs. PM yet? Looked through the info they've sent us and couldn't find anything...<just got the emailHaven't received detailed schedule yet either... < you should receive your individual schedule today
Re: deleting comments in the Awards sheet. At least some of it is inadvertent. The comment "Match day countdown" got deleted from the "Otomatch posts that haven't aged well". I'm pretty sure that was not due to someone who didn't want us all to know when match day was, or that a countdown timer ever existed. Unless someone is ready to fess up to being a time hater, I will chalk this and most other deletions up as accidental. And if not Right-Click Show edit history and restore it, then lock it. < agree that it's pretty easy to accidentally delete a cell if you press any key while "in" a cell. My cat has personally deleted 5 comments so far, but I always ctrl-z them back. can see how it'd be easy to miss tho < LOL, Control-Z to undo the catastrophe
I'm very disappointed in this website. Coming from a place with no home program, I thought I could get advice and honest opinions from attendings, residents, and fellow applicants. Instead, I have no idea what is true. There are comments about DNRing disappearing. Fellow applicants are deciding that comments are banter between applicants instead of perhaps program residents. Schools are being added to the worst interview column before their first session is even finished and other schools are disappearing from the worst interview column after reaching as high as +7. Somehow the interview counter has a way different number every time I look at it. Are these all geniune mistakes? Or fellow applicants trying to steer others away from the program they want? Or just random trolls having fun? I remember Sam mentioning that it looked like the Match 3 survey from last year had been compromised, and now I see why. I'm signing off. I would rather have no information than false information. +2<Sorry to see you go. Otomatch can be a source of stress for some people. If its causing too much stress and uncertainty, take a break. I hope you return as a resident and provide honest information about the program you match into. Best wishes for a perfect match, ---samSomeone is deleting posts from the worst interview questions column. Can people stop.
< you can prevent your post from being deleted by "protecting" it.
How impt is it to let a program know you'll rank them number 1? < they don't care about u < this is sad but painfully true. if it's a higher-ranked program were >50% of their applicants are ranking them highly i doubt it'll affect their decisions. Unless you're outside of their normal geographical region, or it's a smaller/lower-tier program it's not important to let them know. The consensus is programs will score you during interviews, rank you right after interviews, and submit soon after that. Your email is very unlikely to have them unsubmit and change things around.Important to you, or important to them? > I'm hoping it's not important, but will end up sending one just for piece of mind & knowing I did everything I could
"Interview presentation starter pack:

Our culture is one of CAMARADERIE and COLLEGIALITY.

We love our VA experience: excellent RESIDENT AUTONOMY.

Our program prioritizes EARLY OPERATIVE EXPERIENCE.

(LACK OF) FELLOWS HERE create more educational opportunities for residents.

NONE of our graduating residents go to fellowship because they aren’t ready to be attendings.


< restored and protected. this is too funny to loose.
<+3. < gotta add that their city has lots of breweries and a great food scene!+2 < This is funny but also this should probably tell you that no matter where you match you can get what you need and most likely have a good time < We support any career path you choose as long as its the one we want you to do < LOLOLOLOLOL

< Are there lots of programs with family and friend botox/filler nights? is this a real thing? < only one of my programs mentioned it < it is a thing. Allergan offers quarterly free samples for programs for resident education. one vial per resident per quarter < My program has botox and filler clinic at least 3-4 times/year < Lol yeah ive only heard it at 2 programs. Dont think this is part of the template, but also not someting that is likely to iinfluence my rank list whatsoever lol

<Why do people keep deleting things?
No social or info session for Cleveland Clinic? > interviewed back in Dec, and there was no social. they had residents reach out beforehand to answer any qs in lieu of a social to minimize zoom burnout (per one of the interns). there is a program overview at the beginning of the dayanyone else locked out of CC interview Zoom?
What % of people match their top 3? Is there data on this? +2> how about aways?Sam posted a bit about it further down the page. > ~row 112 for home/aways for ENT match ~21-27% home &~30% aways based on incomplete otomatch data from past 2 years> row 242 talks about top 3, but my summary is that there doesn't seem to be ENT specific data but NRMP for all combined specialities is majority match top 3sorry guys, it slipped my mind. i will try to dig up that manuscript to see what data we had this weekend. ---sam > thank you!
What are the rules surrounding visiting a program in a kosher way/ timing / etc?<There are none that I know of. I'd say just email the PC, tell them you're interested in visiting, and see what they say about it
Just wanted to say that going through the interview trail and learning about other applicants makes me feel very...uninteresting and average sometimes. y'all are so impressive srsly forreal just wow < agreed! ya'll are phenomenal! +1 < thank you i do appreciate your noticing < LOL
What does it mean if a program tells you to let them know if you “plan on ranking them highly”? What is “highly”? #1? Top 3? < non-binding, totally up for interpretation < That means you tell them "Im ranking you highly" regardless, lol. That is perfectly ambiguous language you can use to your advantage. They didn't say #1, so I would just say very highly. < I used "ranking highly" in emails to my top 2 programs...still haven't figured out whch to put 1 < there is literally no point in sending a "ranking highly" email, idk if it will hurt u but it certainly won't help.A program that ask you to let them know if you will rank the program highly sounds a little insecure. I would tell them "You TOP my list! I would be trilled to train at XYZ" It will stroke their ego. < Faculty here-- if I get an email saying "ranking highly" instead of number one, I would assume that < means we are not ranked nubmer one since people do that all time.. It also would not really change anything since those emails dont work for me but I would just say that if you are going to send a #1 email, decide and send it and see what happens.. some programs may give some weight to a #1 email, no programs are going to give weight to a not #1 email < Why not just match their language exactly? If they really wanted to know if they're your #1 or top choice they could've just said/asked that. < all of this is illegal to ask lmao < Different Faculty here. Agree with above and I would add that programs asking if you "plan on ranking them highly" IS A MATCH VIOLATION - "Applicants shall at all times be free to keep confidential their ranking preferences ... Programs cannot request applicants to reveal ranking preferences." << 😳😳 ,<< okay lets remember that the employers in this situation have an extremely anticompetitive advantage over applicants compared to similarly doctorate-level trained hiring situations so lets all look out for ourselves and not feel obligated to play fair vis a vis PDs (most of whom are absolutely lovely btw, but the match is a just a scam goddamn) << Link to report Match violations - can be done anonymously. <. I was the first faculty member and yes, if a program asks you then certainly respond with whatever language and I think that is a match violation and should be reported.. I am surprised that programs would ask an applicant that question-- there are so many applicants that I have not really seen or heard of programs specifically asking applicants that.. Agree with the other faculty to report it.
LOVE this chit chat... now lets bring this momentum to that barren A vs. B page, WOO! < who you trying to compare?! < Personally im the IU vs. Cincy post, but eager to see how people feel for a lot of the blank ones. I've added my 2-cents where I can someone has been putting in WORK on that A vs. B page! Thanks so much! +1 < you are welcome
whats the consensus on ranked number 1 letters < my #1 program said they submit their rank list right after the interview day is over, and don't really ever change it. Wouldn't make sense for me to send one but every program is different so idk < im gonna send one once i make up my mind and it doesnt matter any more
how many more interviews we got, team? < 5 over the next 4 days lol, then finally done. < 3! < two left, thank gawd i couldnt survive one more than that
Worst feeling during interviews is definitely going into a room with 4-5 attendings and no one is smiling or the least bit interested in talking to how could i have possibly messed up before even saying "hello", and if you didn't like my app, why interview me?? < Damn, never had this situation but it sounds brutal. Let me guess, some middle tier East Coast program? Thats the vibe im getting here (based on my limited experience. cough..Rutgers...cough) < i feel that, this was my experience at several places, felt like they weren't always super invested in me and my app <keep your chin up, happens to all of us +1< virtual interviews are tough <hope were back to in person next year for the sake of future applicants < worst feeling i had was with my home program interview where they were totally misrepresenting the experience and it felt like they knew i knew that it was misrepresenative and they resented me for knowing thatfeel like at this rate, things are virtual for the long haul) < Personally I've loved virtual and would never want to do it any other way, but I guess it doesn't affect me in the future so I'll advocate for whatever the students want. <students with good boards from good schools will advocate for all virtual. students with no home program that are very personable will advocate for in person. <I'd advocate for application & signal. Then invite or no to prelim virtual interview with 1 faculty member. Then invite or no to in-person interview day that must be between Dec 1 and 14 (puts a soft cap on interviews). Program pays for lodging, applicant pays for other travel expenses. Programs must publish their single interview DAY by the first day applications can be submitted. This prevents signaling multiple places with same interview day. Any unmatched programs get the option of 2 interview days for the next 5 years. <extremely personable with top 1% board scores from a top 5 med school without parents who are paying for med school so id say hell yeah virtual wouldnt have it any other way, except for employers covering the cost like in every other comparable situation hope they get more than one away next year.. don't think I heard of any med students causing any outbreaks < Idk, I did 2 cause of no home program and they were a blast for sure, but the stress and expensive outweighed anything I gained from them (including LORs which I got from both). I had to request an addition to my maxed out loans and personally don't feel that 2 helped me any more than 1, and likewise 3 wouldn't help any more than 2. You can get everyting you need to know about a program by reading about it online, asking good questions at interview or social events, and visiting the city on your own time. More aways or in-person interviews don't add anything significant IMO. <to each their own, but med students should be allowed to make that cost/benefit decision for themselves.+1 < strongly disagree, there was signicant variance in the interview-day presentations of the programs i have first hand knowledge of (home & away) > +1 I loved my away & will rank it Top 3, but they had a sub-par virtual experience IMO. Residency is a 5 year commitment, aways are an opportunity to really know if programs fit. <somebody should analyze the number of ENT vs DO students that got COVID from March -August 2021. I bet it is exactly the same...and far less than the number that got COVID in Nov and Dec. < that'd be bad stats <how is comparing COVID rates in two groups of med students with different rotation interventions (business as usual in DO's vs only 1 rotation in MDs) bad stats?
Still no interview schedule for UC Davis tomorrow yet? < nope :( < just got one! < still haven't gotten mine... <same...< is there a resident social or anything? <not that I know of < 1/26 applicant social
How common is it for programs to send thank you notes to the top X applicants on their rank list? And how worried should we be if we are getting none of these post interview communications?I'm still trying to decide of these are trolls or not bc seems like there are a bunch throughout this spreadsheet < fair point but these "thank you notes" seem to be coming after the programs' last interview dates (i.e. finalized rank lists being made?) < Unfortuantely we may never know :/
<This is actually a different question. This is asking if programs sent thankyou notes to applicants and what it means if you do or dont get one of those.
anyone actually feeling like they have knocked all interview rooms out of the park on a given interview day? cuz im finding for most if not all of my interview so so far, i feel great about some rooms and unimpressive in others and wondering if thats the norm with yall too < I had one interview where i felt like i was killing it in every room...then I got to one room with 3 H&N attendings who appeared largely unimpressed with any of my responses, def killed the vibe for the rest of the day. Other than that even most of my favorite interviews still had 1-2 awkward rooms so you're definitely not alone +1Omg was this Arkansas < lol it was Pittsburgh <H&N attendings kill the vibe everywhere in the country...jk jk. < except this is 100% true which is why its so funny
How are programs winning awards for both best and worst interview day? < diff perspectives +1 < If by diff perspectives you mean trolls, then sure +3 < or they really dropped the ball on the first interview day and then improved for the next ones +1< makes perfect sense to see super academic status focused programs on there, a polarizing vibe < It also makes perfect sense that anonymous people would neg MEEI and put +10000x next to it < I only added 1 to MEEI but hey if you don't believe us, suit yourself. That interview was awful (still a great program of course). <+2< I didn't even realize how bad MEEI was until I went on more because it was so early. Its incredible the lack of personality that came through in that interview. It felt purely like a test. Luckily I rehearsed good scenarios/responses to standardized questions so I feel like I "objectively scored well", but damn if they're trying to evaluate personality/fit that was a huge failure.As someone who interviewed at Henry Ford years ago, I am suprised they are on the worst list. My interview there was amazing (comped hotel and meals) and changed my thinking about Detroit. Granted this was in the in-person days. < Guys, have you noticed that people are dragging all these programs that are hisotrically great and match super highly? Like maybe some people do hate them but I also feel that people are trying to game each other here.. consider it Lol somebody just added Stanford to worst. Didn't they literally just finish their first session moments ago. Must have been pretty rough < ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ < do feel like those numbers are sus but hey maybe hopkins goes unmatched this year < Lol, yeah maybe 😂 < Stanford interview was fine. But they had an obnoxious number of breaks that were decently long, but not long enough to get anything done... < honestly kinda disappointed by Stanford. Interview was super formal, program seemed hierachial AF. I was asked very basic standardized questions in every room, and the MMI room was awkward. The only room I enjoyed was with the PD and the rooms with residents. < Stanford social ais terrible. There's every applicant and only like 5 residents. No time to ask questions. Also a mix of people who interviewed today and who will interview tomorrow, so many questions that were already answered today being asked again.
Any residents or faculty have thoughts on emailing your top 1 program the day after the interview telling them they are #1? Faculty: my program has all interviewers give you a number score. They are averaged and that is the rank list with highest score #1. We meet at the end of the last day of interviews to review and discuss. We haven't changed the list in 3 years. If we do change, it is usually due to resident input " applicant got wasted at social or said inappropriate things during tour etc." We score based on strength of the applicant and how well we think they would fit our program. How much you want to come here has no impact ( positively or negatively). We realize our top 10/20 are probably also on the tops of many other program's lists, so we don't worry about staying in our top 5/10.< do any programs not work like this? < Very interesting, thanks for sharing
Saw this below: Page 17 indicates 3 ENT programs were reaccredited with a warning. Any idea which programs these were and what the warning was for? Also if they were reaccredited does this even matter?
Anyone else stressing about not matching? I've had good interviews so far, but it's a constant worry +6<definitely not alone in this < sum of all fears<no doubt stressful time. if you didn't apply to a backup field, once interviews and ranklist is made is the time to make sure your CV is in order and you have a plan (SOAP vs research fellowship vs ???) in case there is bad news on Black Monday. as long as you have interviews left, let that stress motivate you to knock those interviews out of the park.
To the couples matchers— how far down your list did you fall? < 8
Gotta say, one of my favorite things about the interview season is all of the inspirational music in these program videos lolagreed it's very feel good haha
DAWGS < all my dawgs
Anyone have any interview impressions for Jefferson? < overall great but some of the interviewers had blatantly not read or looked at my application and it was off-putting. Program is strong across subspecialties but seemed to have a major weakness with otology < Perfect for me, not interested in ears lol < ears are for nerds no offense
When is a good time to have mentors contact programs for you? Is this commonly done post-interview? And how does one go about doing this?< I had mine reach out to his connections at programs a few days pre-interview just incase the rank list was made shortly after. Don't know what the right answer is though.
just wanna say to the people who try deleting critical commentary about particular programs, we notice it when it happens and it looks really really bad, much worse than whatever you just tried to delete<agreed. ahem albany < USC tried it once too. lol < lol I'm a fellow applicant who interviewed at Albany & deleted what I considered random trash talk between applicants in the interview tab if thats what youre refering to (Wouldnt delete actual negative complaints or comments about the program itself) <otomatch is moderated by the crowd, but in general I try to avoid deleting comments unless they are libelous, inappropriate personal attacks (commenting about other perople's personal sex life for example) or just waaaay off topic. just like science, its good to see that people can civilly disagree and back up their arguments. then its up to the reader to form their own conclusions. ---sam
how much do home program interviews count?< count for what< i think OP is referring to ranking? < I imagine if they've hated you for the last 4 years, it can't save you. Also if they've loved you, it won't kill you. If you're in the middle of the pack with your other home students, then a great interview could get you a spot while a meh interview may give that spot to someone else.