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This file is the raw data from Episode 21, deep dive hosted on May 17, 2024 with Ben Callahan and Guy Segal.

There are 43 answers. The question this week was:

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Guy mentioned to me the other day that he’s heard from many folks about the mental and emotional challenges of working on design systems. Having those conversations led him to a theory that design system work requires more emotional labor than traditional product work.

Emotional labor is defined as, “The management of one's emotions in order to present oneself and interact with other people in a certain way while doing a job.” (from OxfordLanguages).

As we started to tease this apart, we landed on a few reasons that might be:

- In traditional product work, we are somewhat removed from our users. The opportunities to engage with them are fewer simply because they are most often not internal to the organization.

- In design systems work, our customers are often sitting at the next desk or in video calls alongside us. Our access to those users means we are able to get feedback on a much more regular basis, even when we’re not asking for it.

- When we do ask for feedback about enabling programs (like design systems), people tend to focus on the areas where things aren’t working. We don’t think much about tools or systems when they’re working, but we sure do when they’re broken.

Combine all of this with a tendency of the human condition—to gloss over positive feedback and focus primarily on the negative things we hear—and we’ve set ourselves up for frustration and even burnout.

Of course, these are theories. So, this week we want to hear about your experiences trying to stay mentally and emotionally healthy while doing design system work.

With all of this as context, here is The Question:

In my experience, design system work requires:
- Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product work
- A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product work
- About the same amount of emotional labor as traditional digital product work
- A bit less emotional labor than traditional digital product work
- Much less emotional labor than traditional digital product work
- Other

Tell us what has helped you maintain your mental and emotional health in the midst of design system work and the regular feedback of those using it.
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Question 1: In my experience, design system work requires:Question 2: Tell us what has helped you maintain your mental and emotional health in the midst of design system work and the regular feedback of those using it.
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I can't answer this, as my only digital product work has been in Design Systems. A very good and supportive manager is key.

Conducting internal UxR to provide an evidence base for the utility of the system to users has been insightful and given objectivity to the sense that we are making good progress.

I have also had to use the 'disagree but commit' method of collaborating more than I would traditionally/ideally like, but whilst I think that harms the product quality/outcomes, the silver lining is an ability to let go of caring about aspects which are outside of my control.

It has also been useful attending The Question/Answer, and other in-person Design Systems meet-ups, to gain perspective on our situation relative to that of other organisations. The grass is not always greener, and it's good to get a reminder of that.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workIt helped to streamline the ways of receiving feedback, Before we would get subscribers in our Teams DM's asking questions about usage, giving feedback, or suggesting new features with the least amount of context possible. This, alongside other channels where subscribers would be giving feedback and such, led to a lot of these things getting lost in the process. Because the sheer amount of feedback could often be overwhelming and without a streamlined way to gather feedback that would meet a certain expected standard, we would have to filter through a lot of it manually.

Setting up and defining a "contact the design system team" process took some of that stress away.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workIt is very true that it is far easier to be totally consumed emotionally by the work involved in building a design system, so much so I have sometimes described the design system as my third child!

So often, we felt like salmons on a perpetual journey upstream, or even like Sisyphus!

As a team, we ensured that when there was a win, of any description, we celebrated it like crazy and leveraged our internal recognition program to ensure everyone got the kudos they deserved.

As the PM for the team, I also made sure space was given for reflective and gratitude activities to remind ourselves on just how far we'd come, even if that boulder had rolled back down the hill at us on occasion!

And sometimes, when things got really bad, we'd remind ourselves that 1. it's just work and 2. we are not saving lives.
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Big "it depends" here. I can see an argument for there being less emotional labor in cases where the product is more removed from users. Though, emotional labor also depends greatly on the specific people you encounter, your relationships with them, the environment(s) within which encounters occur, yours and their personalities, and other external factors.Three things mainly.

First, leading with optimism and self awareness. Systems exist to serve the needs of the people who consume from them, not the other way around. I'm not the only one with good ideas. There are usually many correct solutions to a given problem. Approaching everyone's ideas through a lens of optimism greatly reduces emotional stressors for me. Collaboration over competition.

Second, accepting that perfect designs, processes, and systems do not exist. As such, there will always be tenant needs that go unmet -- and that's okay! Acceptance lets me focus more energy on the little wins, like improving a relationship in some small way (see first point).

Third; understanding that the work is not my child, does not define me as a person, and that design is not the center of the universe. Even when feedback is overwhelmingly critical, so what? As long as I'm giving my best effort, I'm okay with that.

Also drugs. Lots and lots of really hard drugs.
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About the same amount of emotional labor as traditional digital product workWith traditional product work the process runs from kickoff through delivery and the stage gates along the way help with closure. The same doesn't feel true with design systems work where it's hard to feel that anything is fully complete or delivered. To be sure, there are some things that are more like a project, but mostly I find that it's a never ending cycle and you have to take time to catch your breath and step back. Sometimes we start things and they end up in the backlog anyhow and this creates emotional (and technical) baggage.

The other piece of this for me is the reality that design systems work includes so many tasks and angles. I'm not just responsible for the UI design like I might in a traditional project. I'm responsible for parts of the entire system — the UI, accessibility implementation, documentation, Figma assets, research, migrations, and more. I'm more aware of the implications decisions might have, and just being aware of those things can be taxing.

To keep a healthy mindset I, first and foremost, have to remember that work isn't my identity and ultimately shouldn't be the source of my joy to begin with. Second, and more practically, I context switch between different types of work. There are some things that bring more frustration, and others that are more enjoyable, so being able to switch between helps even things out. Lastly, I can't do it alone. I have to rely on my awesome teammates and be sure to communicate things along the way so we can share the load. Oh, and some good prioritization and organization helps too.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workAs the team lead, I’ve found that celebrating wins, taking “comp” days after big projects, and practicing “Thankful Thursdays” where we all go around and say something we’re thankful for have helped. These things don’t hide the fact that you have to be mentally tough, to deal with the emotional labor of working in design systems, but if you can improve the internal culture on the team, it can go a long way in providing the support needed to manage the emotional labor inherent in our roles.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workThe long term goal of creating a DS or fixing a broken one. I see myself as a change agent and it's usually why I was brought into the organization: the organization's old DS strategy wasn't working so they wanted to bring me in. I think also I just don't take "no" as an answer---I treat the negatives as "you just haven't been convinced yet".
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A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product workI disagree that design system work is emotional labor because of increased feedback. It's been more emotionally difficult for me because of decreased or cagey feedback.
Internally-facing work like design systems have consumers who are not motivated by a foaming-at-the-mouth desire to use your product, even if you present it as something that benefits them. They see it as something they are supposed to use because their manager said so. So they will use it to check a box and say they did their job. If they are on a different team with a different manager who doesn't hold them accountable, they lose any motivation at all to use the design system. This gets emotional because you end up putting effort into making something that, in the 2nd best case scenario, you get insight into seeing it completely ignored. In the worst case scenario, you never see the designs that aren't following your guidance at all. They are fully off the radar.
Then if you want to understand why it's being ignored, you need to somehow motivate consumers who are already ignoring you to want to talk to you about why they didn't use the system. For times that I've intercepted non-compliance, I've only ever seen an ambiguous head nod and "gotcha" to the direct questions, "Why didn't you use this? Did you not know it was available? Did you not know it was provided to help you? Did you not know that you can suggest improvements if you don't like it as it is?" They're not going to risk their professional image with an honest answer like "I didn't care what resources were available." But it's very frustrating because, if they were honest, it would help us help them.
That's what the emotional labor is for me. It's the motivation side of it. How do I motivate someone to help me help them when they could just help themselves, move along with their project and skip me as the middle man?
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workFocusing on the things I can control, teaching other's about the system how to use it, provide them accurate documentation in time, and listen closely to what they are saying as its not always bad news just additional improvements. i.e. a bit of reframing to, it works well but I need this one improvement.
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A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product workNo one likes to receive negative feedback and in design systems we get all kinds of opinions. I think we have to remember that our work will never be perfect and people are messy. With practice we can listen to the feedback without letting it impact our confidence. This takes practice since it’s natural to take criticism personally and cause us to doubt ourselves.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workFocus on what I can control. I can help them solve a need in front of them. I can provide just in time documentation. I can reframe their issue as improvement and not see it as the whole system is broken even if that's how it came across. Focus on listening for the actual problem.
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A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product workI have a short experience working with Design System but so far I do see it is a system of systems, because each component requires a lot of effort and across collaboration.
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A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product workOne thing that helped was creating a companywide questionnaire asking consumers how they find the design system website, components, code and guidelines. This allows us to group a lot of feedback and a lot of it was positive which helped increasing the team’s spirit. It is true though that in our daily work we only talk about the problems, we only talk about what doesn’t work, what are the problems, why some teams feel unhappy or restricted with the design system, and in general we focus on the negative side of things or better said the things to improve that are not working as wished. Another part of the emotional struggle is juggling different teams objectives and opinions and being often the people that need to convince Others to compromise some ideas in order to serve the whole organization instead of just one team.
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A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product work1. All the bog-standard mental/emotional health things. Take vacations, take breaks, take deep breaths before challenging meetings, don't eat lunch at your desk, go to therapy, etc. You can't do emotional support/labor if you're not feeling stable and supported yourself. Nobody will do this for you.

2. Remember that the goal is building something your team wants to use, not building something you want to build. You're in it for them. It's "your team." You have ownership and responsibility to make it good for them. If that feels like too much pressure, too close/personal, this may not be a good role fit. Your engineers/designers are frustrated when the DS doesn't work for them because they see you/the DS as getting in the way of doing their job. Which is true. When you are angry that your airline or credit card has f'd something up, you don't care about the engineers who built that feature, or the pilot or person working the counter. You're not really thinking about their feelings; you're frustrated, because their stuff isn't working for you, and you want them to fix it. Same deal.

3. As someone who cares a lot, sometimes too much, I struggle with wanting things to be good and right, and it can be hard to disconnect. Not in terms of hours, but in terms of caring. In previous roles I would get SO worked up about things, and a huge part of that was because I felt personal responsibility to fix everything but didn't have the autonomy/ownership to do so. At some point you have to detach, because you cannot fix every problem for everyone on your team or org; you cannot make everyone happy; you cannot get it all done this quarter. The reason we have a job is because there is infinite work, and you will never be done.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workNot something I've figured out if I'm being honest
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workDesign systems can be a bit more emotional labor because of the amount of up front investment and time spent on each individual contributing to the system. It takes time and patience to get everyone bought in and on the same page when it comes to getting the system right. I would say it is harder to stay emotionally distant because these are your coworkers and teammates. There is an expectation that we’re on the “same side.” My strategy for maintaining emotional health at work consists of two viewpoints. The first, work is not my identity. The second, when things are difficult it means that I am growing. Growth is always a good opportunity.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workThat is a very good question. Generally, I would say that engaging in other activities can help to maintain my mental and emotional well-being, walking, meditation, sports like rugby or even Brazilian jiu-jitsu [ https://uxdesign.cc/how-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-has-helped-me-evolve-as-a-designer-and-human-being-e34fbf1d1277 ]

One of my skills is the ability to recognize and address pain points that may impact my mental and emotional well-being. I believe I acquired this skill through my experience dealing with complex customers in challenging situations, such as flight cancellations, overbooking, and lost or damaged baggage, during my ten years working at the front desk of an airline.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workI have never worked on a design systems team that wasn't overly passionate and full of intense debate.

I feel like it's not quite as bad on my current team. But at my previous company, we were building a system from scratch. I left calls crying (because I had to rebuild entire Figma libraries), had engineers spit the dummy and hang up on everyone, and had countless debates that felt like arguments. Systems teams alone are an emotional place.

When you mix that in with the frustrations of trying to get buy-in, adoption, and to keep your team going (this one hurts the most), then you have a recipe for therapy.

All I can say is that I've improved greatly at mediating conversations, apologising, and owning up to my failures.

One very positive side of systems and the level of passion and emotion that comes with them is the immense feeling of satisfaction when things do go well — so I guess there's that.
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iT dEpEnDs – I tend to put myself in the hot seat at whatever org I'm in regardless of the product/system split. It might be a me-problem.Learning how to take vacations. I realized I hadn't taken a week-long vacation in several YEARS because I usually try to optimize my PTO if I'm given any that year. The daily tips and tricks are great, but if I haven't had a real rest in a long time, I've learned to just do it. It's easy to get cynical about the daily things that keep us healthy if we don't actually unplug from the work.

(Also, unemployment is not the same thing as vacation. It's not restful. If that's held you back from vacations, and you are financially able to take a vacation, I highly recommend it.)
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workI’m on a consuming team, but I can see the impact that I and others have on the members of the design system team.

The key differentiation is that as an individual contributor, I’ve had conversations with two customers in interviews in seven years. I have conversations with design system team people mostly every week. We have formed relationships and yet I’m also a customer. They need to balance the company goals, system goals, and the goals of customers that they have direct relationships with. If I had that with customers I would have a higher level of emotion based on if I could or could not meet customer needs while balancing the others.
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About the same amount of emotional labor as traditional digital product workCelebrating the wins, adoption by product teams of the DS and team members sharing their learnings. And having a great core team who you can confide in and trust.
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About the same amount of emotional labor as traditional digital product workIf you're looking for positive feedback, it's a good idea to ask for positive feedback rather than just wait for it.

We also had meetings from time to time where colleagues from different departments talked about their achievements. Kind of “simply explained” so that everyone can understand the value, complexity and be happy not for you, but with you. Achieving this goal was not always easy, but sometimes it helped to look at things from a different angle and have more context.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workMainly, kvetching and strategizing with others who are ~doing the work~. I really like how open, ready to share/teach, and fluid the DS community is. But there's something special about knowing there are groups of people that are in the weeds with this work (as opposed to being a student of it). That sort of "ah yes, I've been there! have you tried/thought about..." interaction is so important for a community to grow and a discipline to evolve.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workIt's super important to take time away from work to put things into perspective
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A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product workIt's super important to take time away from work to have a better perspective on what's important
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product work“Everyone wants to save the world, they all just disagree on how.”

Me and my team have a set of goals, and they may not align with everyone else’s goals 1:1. And that’s okay!

As long as we aim to support each other, communicate appropriately, and understand there are “hard” decisions along the way- some we can control more than others - then the tough moments are far less personal.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workNot even trying to be cheesy but communities like this have helped me so much. Being able to see that there's so many other talented people who face the same issues makes me feel less alone or crazy for thinking so systemically about issues. It's been great to hear from others and solution together in a way that just feels like I have people that get it.

Stepping back and closing the laptop also helps me a TON. I love what I do and I care deeply about it, but big picture there is so much more to life that matters that I want to save some energy for. Reminding myself that I give my best to my career and day job is important to me, but I am much more outside of that.
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A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product workSince we know the users, we can have real, proved impact. We can be more sure that sth was successful or not.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workTherapy! Honestly.

I try my hardest to compartmentalize the feedback and “receive” the feedback when I can.
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A bit less emotional labor than traditional digital product workThe level of emotional work decreases the better you can anticipate and meet the user's needs.
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About the same amount of emotional labor as traditional digital product workHonestly? Bringing the same stoic values I try to live out in my day-to-day life into work. Happiness isn't found in things, but in the pursuit of virtue - of excellence. In the narrow case of design system work "virtue" is the work itself. I'm not going to be happy by trying to solve every problem that arises tomorrow or obsess over what didn't go well yesterday. Rather, I'm happiest, and consequentially better at my job, when I choose to move forward with what I can control and improve today.
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A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product workWhile we begin starting to set up the design system i find myself overwhelmed by all the parts that need to be pulled together. I'm still building my team out and need to make sure that we have all the skills necessary to program and deliver on the promise made by exec to have something by November. We currently have very little, so its very stressful.
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About the same amount of emotional labor as traditional digital product workI feel like my passion for creating something that both helps and engages others has been the driving motivation to continue in the design system space. For me, the feedback is enlightening and it helps me maintain curiosity about how we can better the product, as well as develop empathy for individual issues and ways of working that we might not have originally thought of; a perspective that might not have come about without the high amount of feedback we receive.
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About the same amount of emotional labor as traditional digital product work- A clear understanding that there will always be more work than can be done and prioritization based on value.
- communicating upward and downward the value the team is creating and ensuring org is aligned to short-term and long term goals
- as a team manager removing the feeling of more work piling on for ICs and ensuring work/life balance of individuals on the team
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workI try to schedule check ins w/ the folks who do focus on positive - positive feedback or positive vision for systems. They keep me focused on the bright opportunities of the future in times when the present can feel bleak or overwhelming.

I also have venting buddies - safe folks to "real talk" and get it out without harming customer relationships. I find these folks need to understand DS, so they get why someone recreating a button isn't minor and can feel like someone just waged war upon you (lolz).

Schedule some heads down time when I need a break from interactions w/ the community. Also, trying to spread out the folks who facilitate ceremonies w/ our customers...both in the effort to avoid burnout.
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A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product workDoing our best to show to our users that we listen to their feedback - by highlighting new features and fixing bugs quickly.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workI really try my best to superaste myself from the work to not take things personally. To realize that my job requires much more education, collaboration, and communication than a regular design role. We have to be professional designer and professional politicians at the same time. We have to validate our work in a way that others don’t. It’s a lot. So it combate that I’ve just trying to not take things personally, find my champions, and over communicate to avoid confusion.
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A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product workOur team participates in "Design System Fridays," dedicating the day to addressing feedback and planning improvements. This practice helps me compartmentalize work and maintain a healthy mental and emotional load so that it's not every day.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workI'm quickly learning that the emotional aspect of design system work can be quite challenging. Receiving feedback and getting insights on how the system is preforming from users is an invaluable resource but when that feedback is consistently negative or not the desired answer it can leave you discouraged.

I'm finding that having a solid strategy on how feedback is collected can help alleviate a lot of the emotional burden. If it is up to one or a few team members to triage all this feedback in can be challenging and lead to burnout. We've implemented multiple ways in which users of our system can now give feedback. We have contact information in our documentation site, a dedicated Teams channel, and we are also looking into setting up appointment-based office hours. All these channels go to the broader team so we can discuss and determine the appropriate response before getting back to the user.
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A bit more emotional labor than traditional digital product workBy reminding myself that there's nothing that can't be fixed or iterated on, and that at the end of the day these are all just pixels on a screen – don't take your job so seriously. <3
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About the same amount of emotional labor as traditional digital product workKnowing that you can bring a horse to water but can't make it drink, you'll still receive the paycheck at the end of the day.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workThis is something I struggle with as it is hard to step back from a project you are passionate about and just let things stew in the suck from time to time, but I am finding more and more that setting firm boundaries with yourself and your work is important. If we fall into a pattern of checking Slack messages at all hours of the day and are constantly reacting to feedback from our users and partners scattered across multiple timezones, we can start to feel a type of "fight or flight" as we swat here and there to try and bring things back to an equilibrium. But at the end of the day, it is a bit of a futile effort, and accepting the feedback is part of the Design System process. Additionally, shutting down your computer at 5 (or whatever time you finish work) also needs to be part of the process; the feedback will be there tomorrow.

Further, it is important that while "on the job" we try and find ways to share the load regarding how we tackle work and handle & address feedback. Even on the smallest teams, it is important to think of ways to build community, "deputize" others, and share the load, because - let's be real - the responsibilities of a Design System are too much for any one person. It also lends itself to the scalability of systems: if we can establish processes that allow multiple team/community members to address user feedback or tackle a problem at any given time, that means others can step back and have time to mentally "reset", or focus on more specific tasks that don't have the same level of uncertainty baked in as user feedback or shifting enterprise requirements.
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Much more emotional labor than traditional digital product workThis is a tough one. Design system work can feel very rewarding personally and professionally and simultaneously feel completely thankless to the people you serve and your organization.

We know stewardship and maintenance aren’t sexy topics but necessary to the health of the system- but there’s something from last weeks session about being a reactive team putting out fires, vs being proactive — or at least seen by your users as innovators rather than just triage.

Never mind the constant salesmanship that’s required to keep afloat at times.

I try to look at it like life in general. Something’s I can control somethings I can’t. The things in my control are maybe related to asset maintenance and enhancement , user support, relationship management — but also things like setting boundaries, self awareness checking for how I’m feeling, outlets to vent or unplug, team morale check-ins. It is something that requires regular checking in on.

Design systems are very selfless and altruistic pursuits. It’s important to make the space for yourself because no one else will do it for you.
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