A | B | C | D | E | F | G | H | I | J | K | L | M | N | O | P | Q | R | S | T | U | V | W | |
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1 | First Choice | Second Choice | Reasoning | ||||||||||||||||||||
2 | Option 3 | Option 1 | feels like cheating to bind analog inputs to buttons at all, but just banning switching between the two seems arbitrary to me | ||||||||||||||||||||
3 | Option 3 | Option 2 | slippery slope | ||||||||||||||||||||
4 | Option 2 | Option 1 | option 2 seems the most logical to me it doesn’t seem fair to switch from analog to digital | ||||||||||||||||||||
5 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Stick control is a big differentiator in players’ skill levels. The adapter removes the skill needed to framewalk with a stick or to do the longjump wall kick from the ship, effectively flattening the skill ceiling, and hurting the long term competition of the game. | ||||||||||||||||||||
6 | Option 1 | Option 2 | I do not believe the advantage a2d gives you is sufficient to varrant a ban. Its a very small advantage and I think its very unlikely that this advantage will increase with new findings of a2d use. I have personally looked for ways to use and they are simply not good. I dislike banning insignificant things, if it grows to a bigger problem then we should revisit it, but allow it for now. Also I love framewalking, I think the strat is great and doesnt tarnish the 'spirit' of sm64 | ||||||||||||||||||||
7 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Years of research | ||||||||||||||||||||
8 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Being able to use a wide variety of external hardware that gives advanced runners an advantage over others destroys the whole reason speedrunning was started in the first place, which is to beat the game as fast as possible on its original hardware. | ||||||||||||||||||||
9 | Option 1 | Option 2 | I feel that banning remapping is not the way to go, because keyboard players wouldnt be able to run the game as they used to, effectively forcing them to use new controls, and the whole point of speedrunning has been (in my opinion) to go as fast as you can without cheating, a different control method doesn't feel like cheating | ||||||||||||||||||||
10 | Option 2 | Option 3 | 2 and 3 are a close first and second, with 2 coming out slightly ahead for accessibility reasons. 1 is way in last because I believe using the Boxx in the way that it's being used violates the universal speedrunning rule of hardware manipulation. In my opinion, something can be ruled as hardware manipulation if it can't be done in the same way on unmodified, stock hardware. Alternating between neutral and up on an unmodified, stock analog stick is not feasible for a human. | ||||||||||||||||||||
11 | Option 2 | Option 3 | Playing on consistent mapping throughout a run equates these new advantages to something like playing on keyboard, and so if you want the timesave that this new strat saves you're gonna have to deal with the other repercussions of that controller throughout the rest of the run. | ||||||||||||||||||||
12 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I wrote a bigger paragraph in the discord discussion if you want to search for it just with my name. The short version is: There are many logical points towards banning a2d and especially in my case, other categories like blindfolded suffer a lot from this, since the timesave by buying an adapter would be huge (around 4min in 70 Star). | ||||||||||||||||||||
13 | Option 1 | Option 2 | If the WR uses it, then theres no reason to disallow it now | ||||||||||||||||||||
14 | Option 1 | Option 2 | Framewalking has now become standard in top-level 120 star runs, so banning controller remapping at this point would seem like an unnecessary restriction. And I am specifically against banning analog-to-digital remapping because of players who may want to use a "Boxx" controller. | ||||||||||||||||||||
15 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Mario was intended to be controlled with a stick when the game was released. There are several areas in the game where if a2d were allowed I would map the directions to the Dpad on my n64 controller and benefit imo. I would like a consistent up/right notch for simple things like the jump between doors in BBH100 to ensure the eye sees mario (currently its iffy bc I have a bad notch) or the wk with up/left notch at the end of FS after the 8th red, or the up/right notch for a wk on metal mario. all 3 of those examples also have a down time during which it would be easy to move your left hand from the stick to the dpad (2 have door animations, and 1 a star spawn animation) so moving between the 2 is not always an obstacle.This is a road I would not like to go down. I feel we should ban the use of a2d before any more applications are utilized in runs, and before more runs are on the leaderboard that employ a2d. In the argument summary page I agree with the statement that the community has a history of gravitating toward orignal hardware not new hardware which happens to help a speedrun. I would be in favor of allowing ONLY intended original hardware but since that is not necessarily germane to THIS vote, I will stop here. | ||||||||||||||||||||
16 | Option 3 | Option 2 | precise control of the stick is part of what raises the skill ceiling. as cool as the trick is, i think it damages the integrity of the game | ||||||||||||||||||||
17 | Option 3 | Option 2 | As a new speedrunner I am cautious what I vote for as it will affect the competition in the future. Banning these digital to analogue signals maintains how the game should be played. | ||||||||||||||||||||
18 | Option 2 | Option 3 | I absolutely think there should be no 3rd party hardware abused no matter how much timesave it awards (timesave shouldn't even be a factor at all in this) Though I do understand there is activity among keyboard runners in 120 star who obviously are using a digital stick 24/7 that option 3 could possibly affect, so I think option 2 is the best idea. I also believe without a doubt more uses will be found for a2d mapping, I already believe one could get very good at bowser spins with one of these adapters, something affecting every category in the game. | ||||||||||||||||||||
19 | Option 2 | Option 3 | Option 2 seems most logical, remapping is fine as long as you don't switch around in favor of specific stars. | ||||||||||||||||||||
20 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I think external devices should be banned, because players who use them have an advantage over players who don't. This advantage is not caused by skill, but just by using a different device that makes something easier for you. | ||||||||||||||||||||
21 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I think it’s ok for emu, but not for console. | ||||||||||||||||||||
22 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I do not see equal for all runners that remapping an analog input to a digital one is used,but my point is,if someone wants to play full digital (aka keyboard runners) I'm fine but I don't see fair playing analog and then having a digital input for analog, I do not know if my point is understandable but that is it. | ||||||||||||||||||||
23 | Option 1 | Option 3 | i think jrb framewalk is more or less comparable to switching game version (jp/us) for timesave. I think it would be a poor decision to make a choice that affects the current wr, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th times. option 3 is a fair compromise if your concerned about futureproofing | ||||||||||||||||||||
24 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Original N64 and virtual console are the ways how the game is meant to be played. The same goes with controllers and the mapping of them in my opinion. | ||||||||||||||||||||
25 | Option 1 | Option 2 | The trick still requires skill and helps top runners get runs going | ||||||||||||||||||||
26 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I believe that if certain tricks (such as the JRB framewalk and anything else that analog to digital (a2d) would be useful for) really are realistically possible on an oem or hori, and that a2d wouldn't give an unfair advantage, then people should have no problem doing these strats on an oem or hori. Runners who switch to a controller with an a2d mapping scheme are clearly doing it just to make the strats it's used for significantly easier (or even just to make it possible at all). They wouldn't be using it if it didn't give them an advantage. | ||||||||||||||||||||
27 | Option 3 | Option 2 | unfair advantage, and youvcan do framewalk with stick | ||||||||||||||||||||
28 | Option 2 | Option 1 | it's a stick mapped to a button 4head | ||||||||||||||||||||
29 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I don’t even know why this is being out to a poll. This should never have been allowed from the get go. Changing hardware like this on console violates the spirit of using console to begin with. You can’t be both a console elitist community and think allowing button mapping from analog to digital is perfectly fine at the same time. That is hypocritical and nonsensical. Of course top runners are gonna think this is “okay” they’ve been doing it for months now. They don’t want to lose that time save. In their hearts they know this is complete bullshit though. There is no valid argument for why this should be allowed. This is a slippery slope, I think the time to ban is now before it gets out of control. | ||||||||||||||||||||
30 | Option 2 | Option 3 | The mapping chosen at the beginning of the run shouldn't be able to be swapped on a per trick basis to gain an advantage for specific tricks. | ||||||||||||||||||||
31 | Option 1 | Option 2 | I feel like it doesn’t make much sense to ban remapping if a lot of recent pb’s, including the world record, already uses it. | ||||||||||||||||||||
32 | Option 2 | Option 3 | This trick is shown to be doable on OEM and Hori by Saksdal. Instead of learning how to do the trick correctly, and practicing it until mastsery, you can just button mash and shortcut your way to mastery with little to no effort. Not only this, but you have to pay for the raphnet adapter and gamecube controller too. Imagine if you could set your angle for sblj perfectly with the press of a button? That would remove the setup that you have to learn and master to do well enough for a run. You're removing human skill/element by use of an easier method, one that requires hardware manipulation to achieve. The "No restriction" argument is weak too, no restrictions refers to no GAMEPLAY restrictions (such as mips clip, lblj, etc) being allowed. It's obvious that hardware manipulation should fall outside of this. | ||||||||||||||||||||
33 | Option 1 | Option 2 | Playing on a keyboard/B0XX is really difficult, and I think that the potential effects of having preset angles are overhyped. To even take advantage of such angles requires very precise positioning of Mario such that it'd probably be easier to get the angle you're looking for in that context using more conventional means. One ~5s time save for 1 star in 1 category isn't really compelling enough of a reason to ban something, especially when most A2D control schemes are worse in practically every other way in comparison to N64, Hori, etc. It's also worth mentioning that some people play with keyboard in the Smash 64 community even on N64, and I'd guess that type of control scheme is much easier for Smash 64 than SM64. There's also the fact that actually being able to enforce this type of rule would be basically impossible, so the moderation team would have to trust that the runner is being honest and not using a banned control scheme. At least turbos and macros are relatively easy to detect and enforce their bannings. Doing the same for A2D control schemes is virtually impossible. | ||||||||||||||||||||
34 | Option 2 | Option 3 | a11y is super important, but if we can't support it on console then we should at least ban the hardware that is making framewalking so easy | ||||||||||||||||||||
35 | Option 3 | Option 2 | fuck that shitty mapping | ||||||||||||||||||||
36 | Option 2 | Option 3 | Improving your PB should come from skill, not hardware changes. We play on N64, not VC. Skill is superior. | ||||||||||||||||||||
37 | Option 2 | Option 3 | at the end of the day, I would call myself a purist in the sm64 regard. I don't like the idea of using a remapping as it is not offered as part of the n64 experience. | ||||||||||||||||||||
38 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Remapping of analog to digitial inputs changes the degree of skill required to perform framewalk trick (and potentially many other yet tricks). Tricks such as this are without a doubt more difficult in a standard control scheme, hence the reason many runners are remapping the inputs in the first place. While this isn't a huge issue in the grand scheme of things (only being used for a single trick that saves but a few seconds), the future applications of such an analog-digital input remapping may be further used for such things as getting precise angles and performing larger, more game-breaking tricks. For this reason, I would prefer Option #3 to avoid a potential slippery-slope of sorts that completely changes how the game is being ran, with less emphasis on precise movement and skill and instead relying on remapping away many difficult tricks. | ||||||||||||||||||||
39 | Option 1 | Option 2 | impossible to enforce the ban, large majority of top players want it legal | ||||||||||||||||||||
40 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Dont want having spesific hardwear to give advantage | ||||||||||||||||||||
41 | Option 1 | Option 3 | the arguments made in support of I.M. are better and less restrictive. many people who want IM banned also want other things that runners already banned as well and i think speedrunning should allow as much as reasonably possible and logically consistent in order to “push the game to its limits”. | ||||||||||||||||||||
42 | Option 3 | Option 2 | This would change the entire singlestar game as well. By being able to change to neutral in a single frame could be used for a lot more than just that trick. See the singlestar for wdw elevator. Pretty sure the clip into the cage goes from analog right to analog left in a single frame making it a lot easier to do. Who knows, this could save many seconds in both 70 and 120 star if it became viable someday. This should be banned before causing more harm. | ||||||||||||||||||||
43 | Option 1 | Option 2 | I’m in favor of option 1, allowing for analog remapping and no restrictions on switching controller schemes mid-run. I understand the reservations many have about altering the control scheme in this way, but in my opinion the effect it currently has on the speedrun is a positive one. Allowing an easier method for one star doesn’t hurt the quality of the game or it’s speedruns, and even in the event of more uses of the remap being found, I can’t imagine any scenario where the impact they would have would lower the skill/quality of runs overall in any significant way. Recently framewalking has been explored with OEM and Hori and is seemingly viable without the remap, but I believe allowing an easier method results in less early-game resets and provides a better experience for the runner and the viewer. Ultimately I think this is the most important thing, and while I can see why the remap is off-putting to many, but to me it’s a small change in the grand scheme of things that helps push the game further in a way that’s more positive than negative. Finally, since the WR and 4 of the top 5 on the leaderboard has the remap in their runs, I think the cleanest solution is to continue allowing it. As I’ve said though, I see the arguments against the remap and agree with some of them. I don’t believe there’s a perfect answer to this controversy so I will fully support whatever is decided. | ||||||||||||||||||||
44 | Option 2 | Option 3 | choice 2 cause nobody gonna use those adapters if they need it for the whole run but this still allows gc players and people who use oem for game to switch to hori for throws | ||||||||||||||||||||
45 | Option 2 | Option 3 | If someone wants to put in the work to learn the whole game on a boxx style controller, I believe that is in the nature of speedrunning. Currently, there are more drawbacks to using a boxx style controller than OEM controllers for a full run. Maintaining accessibility to the game is always important. Option 1 should never be the case since external hardware should not make the game easier. Adapters for throws are fine since it allows the game to stay accessible, especially in this hell of trying to find reasonably priced, good controllers. | ||||||||||||||||||||
46 | Option 2 | Option 3 | A2D changes fundamental characteristics of SM64 gameplay, and therefore is incompatible (in my opinion) with the identity of its speedruns. I think option 2 is a good compromise that minimizes how much it can be exploited without being overly restrictive. https://medium.com/@patheticbadronis/opinion-on-remapping-framewalk-d160a2242a00 | ||||||||||||||||||||
47 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Looks dumb | ||||||||||||||||||||
48 | Option 2 | Option 3 | Mapping analog inputs to digital is very questionable for me. I wouldn't mind if emu runners are able to pull easy frame walking with keyboard, it's their choice of a controller. But again, boxx would be similar thing, they'd be stuck with controller for whole run and controller itself might give already disadvantage over long run. Every controller has their own weaknesses and advantages. So I wouldn't mind if people would use their preferred controllers for runs. But I'm against mapping controller's intended inputs to unintended ones -- like analog input to completely digital that already has analog stick for movement. Hori controllers are understandable for controller swapping, to preserve the condition of n64 controller sticks. Even they allow faster spins for throws. But in the other cases, I'd rather not want to see controller swaps in other places, to gain advantages in single stars. But I wouldn't mind either if it was a thing, but just my opinion. I'd keep it minimal. In the end, my heart says it's the best to play in the way developers first intended their game to be played, to keep things pure and more accessible for everyone & not becoming an equipment sports. Keeping things fair and simple. There's another thing, though. People with disabilities and wrists problems may find other controller alternatives better options for themselves and would give them access to be on the leaderboards. Maybe have some sort of indicator on the leaderboards which controller were used to perform the run. Might cause too much clutter, so maybe not a viable option. | ||||||||||||||||||||
49 | Option 1 | Option 3 | I think a2d is part of the community advancing as a whole. Additionally, people are already comfortable with it and banning it would cause more confusion. | ||||||||||||||||||||
50 | Option 2 | Option 3 | I think using external hardware to remap analog stick values to digital buttons can give an unfair advantage over what is possible with official hardware, not just for framewalking but potentially also for things such as quickturns, instant sideflips or precise angles. I think option 2 is the best choice for our community since it preserves accessibility for those that can only play on a B0XX or similar controller while preventing other players from abusing external hardware to gain an advantage. | ||||||||||||||||||||
51 | Option 1 | Option 2 | I believe speedrunning is all about optimizing and pushing a game as far as it can possibly go. Adding "new functionality" through a Raphnet adapter is just that, pushing and optimizing the game. I personally think it's no different than using a Steelstick. players who use a Steelstick have an advantage over players without it imo (angles never change, smoother, never gets loose, ect) so I think if something like Steelstick is allowed then mapping analog stick to buttons should be. Both present clear advantages. | ||||||||||||||||||||
52 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Feels wrong to remap in order to achieve outcomes you are not able to do with an ordinary N64 controller setup. In short, not how the game is meant to be played | ||||||||||||||||||||
53 | Option 2 | Option 3 | Honestly, while I am against the a2d mapping, I think option 2 is a good middle ground to make this game accessible to players that may be interested in the future with handicaps while still being fair to everyone else. There was actually a BINGO that I remember that a keyboard runner did framewalk and during the interview, the runner stated "this was basically cheating" while the commentator stated afterwards "But you're on keyboard so everything else is harder, so it makes up for it", which in a way is another part of my basis because if you're playing with these devices exclusively, you're always going to be at a slight disadvantage. Option 3 I would call last resort just because while that would seem most practical, I've had a slight change of heart for those with handicaps that need the different devices, but I would still be OK if this were the option selected. Option 1 I consider the worst and not an acceptable solution because yes, while it's a no restriction category, it really goes against the spirit of the game while at the same time telling newer runners that on top of all the equipment you need to play on original N64 hardware, if you want to be with the elites, you need to get special adapters on top of that for one trick and that doesn't sit right with me. | ||||||||||||||||||||
54 | Option 2 | Option 3 | its using a 3rd party modification its cheating its like an ess button for oot or something however i dont like option 3 because of keyboard runners | ||||||||||||||||||||
55 | Option 1 | Option 2 | Since people already use keyboard on emulator, i would think about using a 3rd party controller that features that kind of mapping as someone using a keyboard adapter to N64. | ||||||||||||||||||||
56 | Option 2 | Option 3 | Some people have reasons for remapping analog controls to buttons that they can't control, but there also should be rules. | ||||||||||||||||||||
57 | Option 1 | Option 2 | I feel like aslong as there are no modifications made to the game or *hardware*, it should be allowed. Anyone can buy a Hori for throws. Anyone can buy a controller switcher Anyone can buy a smashbox for that one star in JRB. | ||||||||||||||||||||
58 | Option 1 | Option 2 | I find framewalking part of the culture and think it should stay. It makes the game more fun to play. No one likes the instant canon shot and the strat has brought a lot of joy to a lot of viewers on my channel. Some people have already invested money in the devices. Banning framewalking would be an absolute sin. Why there can’t be an option to keep framewalking but ban future remapping exploits I have no idea. | ||||||||||||||||||||
59 | Option 2 | Option 3 | Using external devices to make a trick easier takes away the authenticity and can turn the game into who can sink more money into it if more timesaves are found with it making it necessary for top level play, however if we ban it completely it would limit those who play on keyboard and force them to sink money in a controller so they can compete with everyone else. | ||||||||||||||||||||
60 | Option 2 | Option 3 | It makes sense to me for you to use different controllers during the run as long as one doesn't give you a clear advantage over the other in terms of button mapping. After that, as much as I wouldn't prefer the banning of a controller, the banning of a controller would make more sense over locking a time behind a paywall in the form of a controller-dependent time-save. | ||||||||||||||||||||
61 | Option 2 | Option 3 | Option 2 still allows the player to use whatever controller they want as long as the button mapping is consistent and I think it's important to not ban controllers such as Boxx. This also doesn't give any realistically unfair advantage. I would prefer option 3 if it did not ban controllers such as Boxx, but I would still be happy if this option was picked instead. Option 1 allows for an unfair advantage and removes skill. Some runners will buy the things needed to perform frame-walking if they didn't already own them, which is essentially pay-to-win. | ||||||||||||||||||||
62 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Being able to map analog to digital should be banned for the N64 and VC categories. I say that it's perfectly fine for EMU, as a lot of people run on keyboard, and emulator isn't official anyway, and really should not matter in this discussion. My reason here is that it can give perfect angles for certain things, making things way easier than on an N64 Controller or Hori. While framewalking is the only thing that is used currently, I feel like there a lot of other things that can be much more easily done RTA with this mapping. Any angle you need that isn't right at a notch can just have a button digitally, which could potentially make things like some lag reductions, wall-jump angles, and probably more things. I feel the community as a whole is traveling down a whole new path of shortcuts and exploits that take away the integrity of the game if we continue to allow this. And with the recent pb's being gotten, I say that they should just be left up. Five seconds isn't too much in the grand scheme of things, and I know for a fact that all 4 runners who have used framewalking will pb again without it if it gets banned. | ||||||||||||||||||||
63 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Framewalking shouldn't be banned, as it can be done entirely without modifications, but special and external ways to make it work (like Boxx) should be banned since you are using a controller with extra functions that could be used to make things way easier and more free than they should be. If you want to save the time from using the strat then you have to do it the normal way. The reason why consistent mapping shouldn't be required is because Horis for bowser throws is used a lot but doesn't introduce a big advantage but just helps a little. | ||||||||||||||||||||
64 | Option 1 | Option 2 | tl;dr I don't mind it and I don't think it'll ever have a profound impact on the run. The capabilities of the console are more important to me than the capabilities of the OEM controller, as long as a person is doing each individual input (as opposed to turbo buttons and macros) I don't have a problem with it. However, I would add a rule that a button can only be mapped to an up/down/left/right notch. Off-notch angles and ESS positions are different because they're partial analog values and/or apply both x and y values, because of that it would be more like a macro than a simple remapping. Though even without that rule I doubt it'll have any practical applications besides framewalking, which will never change the run very much anyway. | ||||||||||||||||||||
65 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Inputs that are not possible on an official controller should not be allowed (stick movement cannot be input by a digital button on N64 controller) | ||||||||||||||||||||
66 | Option 1 | Option 2 | i think its really fun watching people do different tricks and dont think it has a huge impact on the runs | ||||||||||||||||||||
67 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I think putting analog input into button shouldn't be allowed. | ||||||||||||||||||||
68 | Option 2 | Option 3 | rule 2 is lengthy, i don't realy like that, but it's inclusive and i think we should aim for the n64 category to stay the main one. And therefore encompass a maximum of playstyles | ||||||||||||||||||||
69 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Since console is already its own category on the leaderboards anyway, I think the official records should reflect skill with OEM hardware, or at least, hardware designed specifically for general console play. OEM controller is obviously fine. Hori is designed for N64 console generally even if not OEM, so that's fine. Gamecube controller is odd, but designed by Nintendo for general Nintendo-console use, so that's fine. Boxx was designed for Smash, so that's not fine. So essentially Option 3. Accessibility is a concern with this option, but if a runner who _requires_ Boxx rises to WR level by essentially doing Option 2, I think the community can deal with it at that time, with an asterisk like they do in sports record books perhaps, or just recording the data elsewhere. If SM64 Speedrun.com page were the _only_ place to record data, this would be a larger concern. But there are spreadsheets aplenty to track everything already anyway. If the data is recorded generally, people can slice and dice it how they like. (I also think that, generally, the speedrun accessibility community themselves are in a much better position to set accessibility record standards than we are.) Option 2 is also pretty good, sets reasonable standards for using any controller that would be fair comparisons on the leaderboard. This is a pretty good compromise, although I still think you could, in theory, design a controller specifically for SM64 Speedrunning (a la Boxx for Smash) that would create a competitive advantage that starts to violate the spirit of the leaderboard (mapping a trick's exact inputs to a linear physical setup so you just have slide your finger across in one dimension feels easier than pressing buttons in two dimensions, for example). Option 1, meh. It's still measuring skill, and it's not unreasonable for professionals at the top of their game to invest significant resources in to specialized equipment that gives them an advantage, that's pretty common in most sports. Just, aesthetically, watching runners switch to an entirely different controller mapping for a few tricks isn't pleasing, and isn't what I want to measure (and explain to outsiders) when asking "how fast can you beat this game on console?" Sorry this babbled on, but I wanted to share my thoughts, and the discord channel didn't seem the most... productive... place to do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||
70 | Option 2 | Option 1 | I do not like the thought of changing a "profile" of your controller mid run. I believe that number 2 is the best option because it keeps the benefits of controllers such as the Boxx, but disincentives players from using a different control scheme if they are used to the normal way of controlling mario. I think keeping the accesibilty of controllers like the Boxx is very important, which is why option 1 is my second ranked vote. While I do not agree in principle with the whole method of the framewalk issue, I do not believe that alone or any other potential use cases for it provides any sort of significant competitive advantage. | ||||||||||||||||||||
71 | Option 2 | Option 3 | Allowing the use of free equipment means competition based on knowledge about the equipment. I have been playing SM64 speedrun since 2007. Emulators were once mainstream in SM64 speedrun community. In the past, there were no restrictions on emulator settings. Some emulator runner had an advantage over others by changing settings. 春風√2.5, the top player at the time who was familiar with the emulator, had an advantage of over 3 minutes in a 120 star run over the normal environment just by emulator settings. In this way, allowing the use of free equipment means competition based on knowledge about the equipment. I think desirable to at least impose strict restrictions on the use of the equipment. | ||||||||||||||||||||
72 | Option 2 | Option 3 | Option 2 is best because I think the accessibility argument is valid. Option one is by far worst because I feel that you shouldn't have a competitive advantage because of third party hardware. The arguments about stick-control and skill, and what a2d might lead to further down the road are also very good imho. | ||||||||||||||||||||
73 | Option 2 | Option 3 | See my post on forum for greater detail, but to summarize: I do not believe that third-party devices (such as the Boxx) should be allowed. I feel as though devices that add functionality which cannot be reasonably replicated on a completely unmodified OEM controller break the spirit of speedrunning this game. I support Option 2 most favorably as it protects against the added functionality, while keeping the game as accessible as possible to everyone who may be interested in picking it up. | ||||||||||||||||||||
74 | Option 2 | Option 3 | The second option still gives people the option to do the remapping if they'd like but restricts it from being an advantage to them as they'd have to play the rest of the game with the remapped controller. I think it should be banned but giving the option would at least still gives some fairness to the people who want to remap. | ||||||||||||||||||||
75 | Option 3 | Option 2 | purist point of view, ther classic sm64 category should only allow normal hardware, all other boxx type of controller can't compete in the same category, just some variety categories | ||||||||||||||||||||
76 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I may or may not have been paid to vote this way. However, even if I may have gotten paid or not; I would still have voted this way. | ||||||||||||||||||||
77 | Option 3 | Option 1 | This would be a more difficult decision were this trick impossible without the mapping, but it's been shown that with enough skill a player can perform the JRB framewalk strat using a regular controller. I believe that banning analog to digital in this context is what we should do. EMU should definitely be left alone though since EMU doesn't have an intended control scheme. Also a consideration should be made for players to include a handcam in runs that use the JRB framewalk to verify that no illegal mappings are being used. | ||||||||||||||||||||
78 | Option 1 | Option 3 | Framewalking is a relatively small timesave, and adds an interesting element to the run. This is very likely the only significant impact analog to digital mapping will impose as people have used keyboards for years and haven't found much else. I just think imposing a specific restriction such as this is unnecessary for such a small issue. It also seeks to further alienate emulator players from the N64 runners. I don't like option 2 because it's a very specific half measure focused on a tiny group of people. They shouldn't be given an advantage on certain things just for essentially handicapping themselves for the rest of the game, it becomes a weird trade off. | ||||||||||||||||||||
79 | Option 2 | Option 1 | I strongly agree that runners should not be able to make use of technology that original hardware produced/licensed by Nintendo doesn't offer. It offers an unfair advantage based on player generations (e.g. 10 years ago it didn't exist and now offers this advantage over oldschool runners exclusively to current runners. Possibly, people can have even stronger advantages in 5 years that nobody can have today). Furthermore, I highly agree with the concern that a good-enough knowledge about the equipment can lead to even greater advantages and possible advantages that only said knowledgable runners can transpose into a certain benefit. Generally speaking, the concept of "purism" should be followed: Any person should be able to just take a normal N64 controller, a normal N64 console and a normal SM64 cartridge as all they have, and compete while being able to complete the respective category as fast as it can be completed with regard to what the game itself and the surrounding hardware offers. The limit should not be pushed at all, through the use of new hardware. And while technically, A2D and the like don't necessarily allow something to be possible that would not be possible otherwise (as framewalk cannonless can indeed be done with native hardware), alone the fact that it can objectively change the difficulty/the way how something is done should be sufficient for a ban of this hardware, or rather the use of this hardware. However, I do not think that people who want to use alternate hardware should have no option to do so at all. Isn't it so that some people might even profit from a controller like the Smashbox for medical reasons? It's what I've heard anyway. If they are willing to voluntarily desist from any distinguishable advantage that comes from such hardware, among them notably easier framewalking, keyboard-like Bowser throws, customizable stick ranges etc, they should be allowed to do so. Of course, it will be different to original hardware to use a button mapping that includes D2A. However, not using D2A and the like in questionable ways and instead trying to "simulate" gameplay sufficiently equal to standard gameplay using Nintendo hardware should be a worthwhile compromise to allow these runners to submit their runs. Consequently, these runs should be (close to) practically indistinguishable from runs done using standard hardware. In practical moderation, this hardware cannot be banned either way because you can't detect nor ban differences that are fully indistinguishable, therefore it should not be banned in the first place. | ||||||||||||||||||||
80 | Option 1 | Option 2 | I think boxx is a great option for running the game and more people should attempt to use or switch to it if they want to. I've yet to see a reasonable explanation as to why banning swapping mappings / controllers is a good idea so I'd rather that not be the case. | ||||||||||||||||||||
81 | Option 1 | Option 2 | A few runs already use it and it would be hard to enforce | ||||||||||||||||||||
82 | Option 2 | Option 3 | I've argued my case a lot in the discord server, go look there because I'm too tired to summarize | ||||||||||||||||||||
83 | Option 1 | Option 2 | My reasoning for the decision I've chosen is simple. I think that the use of analog stick to button remapping should NOT be banned because 120 has always been about getting the fastest time possible without any restrictions, third party hardware (i.e Boxx) really doesn't provide that much of a competitive advantage. Frame walking and digital Bowser throws have been known about for years at this point, and I feel if Siglemic didn't use frame walking in the 120 race, this entire argument wouldn't even be happening, at least not for another long time. Frame walking itself is still possible in game without remapping A2D, it's a simple matter of having the strategy be easier. In my eyes, it's similar with people switching from OEM to Hori because it makes throws easier and doesn't wear down the analog stick over time. The frame walk is easier with A2D because of the digital button you press. In conclusion, A2D and any form of it SHOULD NOT be banned and be 100% allowed in 120 speedruns and so on. I know my voice isn't entirely heard on this topic since I only do 16 star speedruns but these are just my two cents on the topic. | ||||||||||||||||||||
84 | Option 2 | Option 3 | I don't like that it uses an external device for the inputs and that you are making an analog input into a digital one. | ||||||||||||||||||||
85 | Option 2 | Option 1 | Everyone has their own situations for the hardware that they run on. I use a ps3 controller on emu because i cant get any other hardware. That is unfair to people who are in the same situation. Thats the whole reason that most people switched from VC to N64. Because it gives a fair level of play to everyone, which in the VC to N64 switch would be the japanese.This would make it so that you do not need specific hardware to do the fastest strats. One of the biggest things that i think separates players of skill levels is their ability to control the stick allowing for precise movement. Mapping analog to digital removes that separation between the players and van affect competition between players. But i think that the best thing to do would not to be the remapping of analog to digital, but to force the same remapping to be for the whole run. That way people that want to use a boxx for whatever reason can still play with their preferred mappings | ||||||||||||||||||||
86 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I do not like having to spend money on a controller to save time on a speedrun | ||||||||||||||||||||
87 | Option 1 | Option 2 | The concept of speedrunning in my perspective is the idea of beating a game as fast as possible under certain rulesets, and as 120 star is a "no restrictions" category, it should be allowed for the benefit of saving time even if it is using external hardware to perform a non-intended strategy, especially considering there are several non-intended stratergies/glitches throughout a 120 star run. Speedrunning communities such as the SM64 community always collectively aims to bring the time of beating the game down, whether it being with the minimum stars with or without glitches, or with all stars, and if in this case it involves a less skilled stratergy then I believe that it should still be viable, as both skilled based and non-skilled strategies should be combined to ultimately achieve the lowest time possible. | ||||||||||||||||||||
88 | Option 3 | Option 2 | My main reasoning for wanting a ban on the use of analog stick to button control scheme on N64 hardware is that the idea of runners using this functionality advantage, which cannot be obtained on official N64 hardware, I believe is contradictory to the decision of runners choosing N64 hardware in the first place instead of other tools like emulation or keyboards, which are proven to have big time save advantages. Further, the idea of runners finding a hardware modifying shortcut, which again was not released, intended, or officially supported by Nintendo when making the game, goes against in my opinion the bounds and limitations runners on N64 hardware must adhere to when trying to beat the game as fast as possible. Human speedrunning is the art and sport of finishing the game as fast as possible without breaking predefined rules, after all. There are limitations within the game that speedrunners must understand and work to its limits in order to go fast. Modifying a hardware functionality limitation is outside the bounds of the game software itself and therefore against the spirit of speedrunning of said game using said hardware. If one were to develop a device that would finish the game by pressing one predetermined button at any point of a runner's choosing during the run this would inarguably be unallowed by everyone. In either of these cases however the same principle applies; modifying hardware functionality to bypass certain limitations or difficulties of what can be done on game software, and therefore both should be unallowed. I chose option 2 as second preference because this option would still allow N64 hardware modification functionality, which I don't think should be allowed for above reasons. I believe the case of someone who only uses controllers like Boxx for SM64 speedrunning to be very, very few and far between, and therefore not worth this additional complication to the rule set which could possibly have unforseen consequences if it were implemented as a rule. I find this option to be needlessly complicated and something an average viewer wouldn't grasp very well. However I do prefer this option over option 1 since at least additional hardware functionality through modification cannot be obtained midrun. | ||||||||||||||||||||
89 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Remapping inputs should not be allowed as it allows people to play the N64 in a way that was never intended. The N64 category should remain as pure as possible, and should not rely on the use of external hardware to achieve a better time. If people want to save time on that star they should take a risk; it shouldn't be just given to them for free. | ||||||||||||||||||||
90 | Option 3 | Option 2 | My thoughts on this are on the mario 64 speedrun dot com forum https://www.speedrun.com/sm64/thread/gd9kj To add to the post. The reason why I choose option 3 over 2: I acknowledge that ergonomics is important since there are players whose hands are in bad condition due to the N64 controller being badly designed. The problem with choosing option 2 over 3 is that I have not heard of anyone who switched to a b0xx or digital inputs for control stick because of hand problems, I don't believe most players currently want to or will. I believe if hand issues are a problem, then a different controller should be allowed as long as it doesn't have A2D. Because I don't see any real immediate benefit to allowing A2D even if the controller scheme is maintained throughout the run, I chose option 3 as my first choice because it felt as the safest option. (Avoids problems with huge tricks being found with analog stick or handful of difficult tricks being made easier) | ||||||||||||||||||||
91 | Option 3 | Option 2 | -By using analog to digital remapping, you are skipping values 1-99, going straight from 0 to 100 -Banning A2D remapping will not hurt the current state of the run, but will prevent any future slippery slopes should A2D be used for more than just JRB framewalking (like quick turns or forward side flips - see concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tcQlETff5U) -Banning A2D preserves the integrity of the game with intended inputs -Banning removes the potential additional barrier to entry for players to run the game | ||||||||||||||||||||
92 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I dont think u should be able to buy time (meaning u buy for example a box) instead of using skill to gain time. | ||||||||||||||||||||
93 | Option 2 | Option 3 | I think that Option 2 is the best, since Players can still play on their device of preference, but without an unfair advantage. | ||||||||||||||||||||
94 | Option 2 | Option 1 | Personnely, I'm playing EMU because of physical limitation. And if one day we ban EMU because using another hardware I will be really disappointed. One day maybe, I could switch console with adaptated hardware.So I use and will use another hardware and I can't blame anyone to do the same. But i'm not for smashing the game because we can do it (no TAS). It's a difficult choice for me. Bad english here :p | ||||||||||||||||||||
95 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Mapping digital to analog supersedes and undermines the intended controls are creates yet another barrier for runners who want to compete at the top. It borders on tool assistance. | ||||||||||||||||||||
96 | Option 3 | Option 1 | I believe the potential for trivializing speedkicks/sideflips/frontflips etc is there with analog to digital mapping. | ||||||||||||||||||||
97 | Option 3 | Option 1 | I think allowing the remapping could lead to new advantages that would end up saving significant time. I think that playing the game with a very unintended hardware setup like this shouldn't be allowed on console. It gives a distinct gameplay advantage and free timesave to people that are using it. | ||||||||||||||||||||
98 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I just feel like it lowers the skill ceiling and takes away from the game and run. "The history of the speedrun has been optimizing the game in spite of the hardware, not through the use of new hardware." This quote sums it up for me pretty well too. The only use afaik right now is framewalk, and even that would benefit from this being banned as the trick would be much more natural and incredibly hype when done with a normal controller during a run. Mod note: This reasoning is the exact same as another vote in this poll, but I can promise they are from different users. This entry comes from steveobroil who agreed with another users' reasoning verbatim and chose to copy/paste it. | ||||||||||||||||||||
99 | Option 3 | Option 2 | Being able to map analog to digital should be banned for the N64 and VC categories. I say that it's perfectly fine for EMU, as a lot of people run on keyboard, and emulator isn't official anyway, and really should not matter in this discussion. My reason here is that it can give perfect angles for certain things, making things way easier than on an N64 Controller or Hori. While framewalking is the only thing that is used currently, I feel like there a lot of other things that can be much more easily done RTA with this mapping. Any angle you need that isn't right at a notch can just have a button digitally, which could potentially make things like some lag reductions, wall-jump angles, and probably more things. I feel the community as a whole is traveling down a whole new path of shortcuts and exploits that take away the integrity of the game if we continue to allow this. And with the recent pb's being gotten, I say that they should just be left up. Five seconds isn't too much in the grand scheme of things, and I know for a fact that all 4 runners who have used framewalking will pb again without it if it gets banned. | ||||||||||||||||||||
100 | Option 3 | Option 2 | I think maintaining the "vanilla" way of playing will always be the best option. It will continue to keep skill more relevant than hardware. Considering this is only a 5 second time save, I don't think that allowing remapping in this instance would be the end of the world. However, I do worry about the implications that remapping could allow in the future. For this reason I think it would be in the best interest of the community to eliminate the issue altogether. Current runs should stay validated (possibly with a disclaimer of some kind[?]) to not cause any issues with both the community and current stability of the leaderboard. |