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Questions and Answers: Code Red 2024 - Clean Air, Healthy Bay Area
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5/9/2024 10 - 11:30 AM47 Questions and Responses
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#QuestionAsker NameAnswer / ResponseResponder NameQuestion Time
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1Will there be an attempt to bring restaurant owners along, by allowing continued gas cooking perhaps alongside a requirement for a single induction hob per new build?BryceThe BAAQMD rule 9-6 applies only to water heaters and the rule 9-4 applies only to warm air furnaces. So neither rule addresses the pollution from combustion cooking.Tom Kabat10:09 AM
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2What specific things can all of us do to assure that Rules 9-4 and 9-6 continue in place?Robert WhitehairAnswered live. See video timestamp 01:18:50Kristel Wickham10:15 AM
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3Where there is one gas tank heater per unit in an apartment: what are the options for going to a single common electric tank water heater with submetering? Does that bring up CPUC issues? Are there legal or accuracy in billing issues?BryceHi Bryce, i do not have the CPUC regulations on submetering in front of me. I do want to share that this would be a somewhat expensive undertaking. Technically, metering technology is absolutely capable of being accurate for submetering water flow.Blake Herrschaft10:15 AM
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4Davina Hurt: Is or will BAAQMD advocate with the CPUC to reduce (or at least cap) electricity rates? Otherwise, escalating electricity costs will discourage electrification and disproportionately impact lower-income residents.Linda Hutchins- KnowlesThis is a concern as the utilities grapple with the effects of climate change on aging infrastructure. Communication between regulating agencies and setting fair pricing policies will be key to ensuring an equitable transition.Kristel Wickham10:16 AM
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5To Davina: Gas leaf blowers/mowers were set to surpass vehicles for GHG emissions in the Bay Area - can we ban use of them in the Bay Area? They are also terrible for health.Kristel RieteselAccording to BAAQMD: The California Air Resources Board sets standards for manufacturing leaf blowers. Some cities have local restrictions as to when and what times they can be used.
The Air District has no specific authority over manufacturing or limiting the use of leaf blowers in the Bay Area. 		Kristel Wickham10:16 AM
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6How can we save the chat? There is already so much good information thereRobert WhitehairLinks and resources posted in the chat are in this document on the next tab.Kristel Wickham10:16 AM
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7Will any of the speakers today be discussing the Tech Clean California program that helps to replace gas water heaters with heat pump water heaters? I recently learned about subsidies for low income customers that can replace for free (or almost free) the electric technology?Laura NakamuraNone of the speakers focus exclusively on the TECH Clean California incentives. Information can be found here: https://techcleanca.com/ . The Incentive finder at SwitchIsOn.org is also a great tool. Several of the CCAs are offering grants to community based organizations to help spread the word about income-qualified incentives (including TECH Clean CA) and improve uptake. CCAs are also deploying 'direct install' programs for multifamily and income-qualified customers.Kristel Wickham10:22 AM
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8My CA AssemblyMember, Diane Papan, is a big supporter of hydrogen power. And she is silent on reducing emissions. What is the best way to change her mind about this? Would you be willing to speak with her?AnonymousElected officials have a lot of influence over climate-forward goals, policies and actions. The more constituents speak up and keep raising climate mitigation (emissions reduction) as a top issue, the more our elected officials will respond. And of course, we as voters need to engage and elect climate champions. Two groups working in this area are: the Environmental Voter Project https://www.environmentalvoter.org/ and the Climate Cabinet https://climatecabinet.org/ Kristel Wickham10:24 AM
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9In 2022 CARB set up interim goals to get us to all electric vehicles by 2035. Is BAAQMD/CARB also setting interim goals and industry partnerships to help us to phase out the sale of gas water heaters in 2027 and furnaces in 2029?Hilary GlannYes, CARB is considering adopting standards statewide that are similar to BAAQMD and relate to emissions from water heaters and furnaces. https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/our-work/programs/zero-emission-space-and-water-heater-standards Kristel Wickham10:25 AM
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10I see in Professor Jacobson’s bio that he works on creating roadmaps to get to zero air pollution and zero carbon. What legislation or policies with a fleshed out roadmap would you recommend to support achieving 9-4 and 9-6 in time?Kat SnyderAnswered live. See video at 01:26:41.Kristel Wickham10:26 AM
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11Wasn't there a recent court ruling against prohibiting new gas installations? How does that affect BAAQMD 9-4 and 9-6?John PfefferleThe 9th Circuit ruling last year against Berkeley’s Gas Ban affects cities’ ability to prevent gas hookups in new construction. The BAAQMD rule amendments are air quality rules which regulate the emissions of water heaters and space heaters at the point of sale in the 9-county Bay Area region. The court ruling does not impact the implementation of the BAAQMD rules 9-4 and 9-6.Kristel Wickham10:28 AM
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12What is being done where heat pump water heaters end up refrigerating a space, thus taking heat from a nearby condition space? Is there code related to external air being considered for heat pump water heaters?BryceLab tests of heat pump water heaters (HPWHs) shows they tend to work well in rooms as small as 7’X8’X8’ (400 cubic feet). Below that size they either shift more into the electric resistance backup mode or they need some additional ventilation such as cutting the bottom edge of the door up another inch to let cool air out, putting other vents in the door, or ducting the air for the HPWH to the attic, crawlspace or outdoors. The manufacturers' installation manuals show how.Tom Kabat10:28 AM
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13Does the permit fee waiver help streamline work for the contractor in any way or just incentivize the home owner?Marti RoachThe fee waiver primarily incentivizes home owners. The work on implementing the waiver has provided an opportunity for collaboration between city departments, and we are working on other process improvements for the contractor or others who pull permits.Ori Paz10:28 AM
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14This is not a question. I started using induction cooktops since 2013. This is a live energy test to back up what Mark said about just how efficient solar-battery induction cooktops are for boiling water. Only about 50 Watt-hr to boil a cup of water for pouring over coffee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjN-QW9KRCA
This is on a small vessel, converted into a micro minigrid and all electric or hybrid propulsion testbed. Scalable to apartments - because I use what could be both rooftop, ground mounted or balcony solar - as power and shade too.		Cherise PetkerThanks Cherise.Kristel Wickham10:28 AM
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15Thank you all. Interested in how we will be making this energy transition through the lens of equity - ensuring that overburdened communities are going to be able to access investment in clean energy.
I would also like to know more about how we will streamline the process of ensuring equipment will not cause downstream adverse public health impacts like end-of-life for solar panels ending in landfills. I think it should be a systems thinking approach and lifecycle management for pivoting to true "cleantech".
Thank you again.		Cynthia Prieto-DiazYes good points. A few of the speakers addressed equity concerns, the importance of outreach and building trust in underserved communities, and matching the available incentives to income-qualified people.
A systems-thinking approach and full lifecycle management is absolutely necessary for all of our 'cleantech'. Heat pumps use refrigerants to move heat into and out of buildings. These refrigerants have historically been potent greenhouse gases, but they are also well regulated to ensure they are captured and recycled. https://servicechannel.com/blog/what-you-need-to-know-about-carb-refrigeration-regulations/ Concepts such as 'extended producer responsibility', and 'cradle to cradle' design should be further adopted.		Kristel Wickham10:29 AM
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16(to Menlo Park) Was there any public pushback in reducing the setbacks required for new electrical equipment?Ed SchreinerNo, we didn't receive pushback on the setback reductions for electric equipment enclosures.Ori Paz10:29 AM
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17Ori- can you share the website with the new zoning setbacks, thanks!Anonymoushttps://menlopark.gov/Government/Departments/Community-Development/Planning-Division/Green-and-sustainable-building-requirements/Existing-dwelling-unit-electrification Ori Paz10:30 AM
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18Ori: are you suggesting a separate "Electrification" cross-department stakeholder group in cities? Beyond Department Head meetings? Is that what Menlo Park created?AnonymousYes. We have a couple of groups for different climate action plan areas. We started with City Department Heads understanding the time commitments and identifying the right partners within their departments, but ultimately the context and understanding of issues and opportunities staff have is greater the closer you get to the staff who are reviewing these items everyday.Ori Paz10:31 AM
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19RE: Menlo Park stakeholder engagement, how did you outreach to potential stakeholders and how did you shape the engagement to be efficient? Did you pay the stakeholders? Curious for program design purposes!Jennifer GreenThe key takeaway referenced was about engaging internal stakeholders across departments and divisions. Happy to talk more about community stakeholder engagement and connect you with our Sustainability Manager to share how we're thinking about that for our Home Upgrade Program in partnership with PCE!Ori Paz10:31 AM
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20Thanks for setting all this up! Chat would also be published in post-event resources, right?
(Chat is not allowing direct copy, which Q&A do allow right now)		Amir GurThe chat resources and links posted will also be published after the event (see 3rd tab in this doc).Kristel Wickham10:35 AM
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21Hong - do you think that the BAAQMD rule might increase the number of customers who will not pull permits, especially for water heater replacement?AnonymousYes, I do.. we currently are receiving more questions about electric heat pumps for water and heating systems in general, so it's encouraging to know that people are being more aware of requirements.Hong Luu10:36 AM
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22What kind of education to the community are these cities doing to help building owners understand benefits, opportunities and ease of choosing electric appliances?Marti RoachOne example is that Palo Alto Utilities is working to customize this national retrofit guide to be localized to their Bay Area weather and contractor pricing and Bay Area incentives with their local utility rates. Other Cities or their CCAs could contract to make a similar version with local PG&E rates and CCA rate savings plus incentives. National Version shown here: https://www.redwoodenergy.net/research/a-pocket-guide-to-all-electric-retrofits-of-single-family-homes. Also answered live. See video at timestamp 01:24:50.Tom Kabat10:39 AM
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23Have cities or BAAQMD formed a panel or committee of contractors that is able to give feedback on how all aspects are working out in the field, today? Is that feedback available to shape policies and activities?AnonymousBAAQMD has organized those panels and they are under an Implementation Working Group title. There are opportunities to join and/or just engage with those panels. https://www.baaqmd.gov/rules-and-compliance/rule-development/building-appliances Also answered live. See video at 01:20:17.Tom Kabat10:40 AM
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24I'd love to connect directly with the Efficiency First CEO re: our Green Workforce Pathways program, which highlights all of the benefits of contractor engagement in programs. Can we get contact info?Jennifer GreenCCormany@EfficiencyFirstCa.org or (916) 384-0324 x702Charles Cormany10:45 AM
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25Can Cyndy drop a link to the study she mentioned at the start of her presentation?Anonymoushttps://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adm8680 Cyndy Comerford10:47 AM
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26Does SF Environment have any initiatives to make weatherization improvements (including window replacements) easier for residents/property owners?Phoebe GouldenAnswered live. See video at: 01:23:01Kristel Wickham10:52 AM
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27For Blake: For the loan on-bill finance program - how did PCE raise capital for this? What advice would you give to other municipalities on setting up programs that can finance heat pumps, and help customers bypass upfront costs.Sam FishmanThe key takeaway referenced was about engaging internal stakeholders across departments and divisions. Happy to talk more about community stakeholder engagement and connect you with our Sustainability Manager to share how we're thinking about that for our Home Upgrade Program in partnership with PCE!Blake Herrschaft11:00 AM
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28What about multifamily residents?
The EV Charging for All Coalition has been working on EV charging for multifamily, but it's hard, and sometimes there are load management issues between EV and heating/cooking.		AnonymousYes multifamily is difficult. There are 'split incentives' between the building owner and the renters and concerns about rent increases after upgrades are completed. Many are thinking about these issues. See here: https://www.ioes.ucla.edu/project/equitable-electrification-of-existing-buildings-a-pathway-to-decarbonization/ , this video on electrifying equitably: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ghAovI_r64 and this Equitable Home Electrification Toolkit from RMI: https://rmi.org/equitable-home-electrification-toolkit/ Kristel Wickham11:00 AM
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29What pools of funds are CCAs using to provide their incentive programs? Is that all headroom from electricity sales?Jed HoltzmanYes, mostly. We are also layering with other incentive programs. We are currently working to find other sources of funds for these programs, so that we can scale.

Note, this available “headroom” is after a 5% discount (or more) versus PG&E rates. We work very hard to negotiate our carbon free energy procurement contracts to pass on savings to our customers. At the moment, we are actually maintaining 2023 rates for electricity generation to our customers. We understand the rate increases that occurred in January from PG&E were very high, and found a way to maintain last year’s cost.		Blake Herrschaft11:01 AM
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30Question for the team, will policies and/or programs help individuals/communities that may have higher rates of older homes? My understanding is that older homes may need complete rewiring and service panels may have lower energy capacities. Rewiring alone could not be economically feasible for many... but these communities may need this pivot the most. Thank you.Cynthia Prieto-DiazNew power efficient technologies keep coming out to help with these edge cases. One is the new 120 V 900 watt or lower large tank low power water heaters that can be easily plugged into an existing circuit or a new 120 V circuit. Also meter collar technologies are available and evolving to easily serve added loads from the meter socket. These and most 240 V electrification happens on new circuits and not on old wiring. So old wiring can be left as is. In my opinion a focus on power efficiency (lower power or shared solutions) will be an important part of the solution.Tom Kabat11:03 AM
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31For Blake: how does PCE inform low-income families that these great programs are available to them?Simona ValloneHi Simona, we liaise directly with CBOs and through an annual, $500k grant program. They coordinate to lead the effort to reach out on our programs working to help disadvantaged communities. This year we gave out $530k in grants to 16 ogs. Our department doesn't run this program, but we love it! More info here.

https://cal-cca.org/peninsula-clean-energy-awards-530k-in-outreach-grants-for-local-nonprofits-in-2024/ 		Blake Herrschaft11:03 AM
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32Blake, are there plans for dedicated e-wheelchair charging stations with solar canopies for shade/shelter? I found a dedicated unit, in a few town squares, when recently visiting Turkiye (I'll make it public on our youtube channel, @circularsolar1).Cherise PetkerNot yet, but this is very interesting. Can you tell me where e-wheelchair charging stations should be and what types of specs to use? Accessibility is a high priority for us.Blake Herrschaft11:04 AM
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33What about markup on electricity for EV or e-Bike charging in multifamily? Does anything prevent gouging?AnonymousSee response for question 28 on equitable electrification. Protective policies must be put in place to ensure that 'charging at home' for EVs and bikes is at market rates regardless of whether you live in a single family or multifamily home.Kristel Wickham11:06 AM
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34Could BAAQMD and CARB copy the timeline model for phasing out gasoline car sales by having INTERIM dates by which a percentage of gas-burning appliances like water heaters and furnaces are phased out, until we get to 100%?Debbie MytelsThat's an interesting idea. I don't thing BAAQMD and CARB are pursuing that route currently for the appliance rules. It may be a matter of it being difficult to enforce a percentage compliance as opposed to specifying dates after which sales and installation of certain polluting appliances is not longer allowed. Kristel Wickham11:07 AM
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35RE SVCE direct install for low income. What did you learn in focus groups about interest in electric vehicles and having chargers in their homes?Marti RoachHi Marti, participants primarily were concerned about renter education and protection. Overall, there was a lack of information for EVI - something we are hoping to work on in the near future with our customers.Eric Rodriguez11:07 AM
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36Are any other CCAs developing an “Ikea style” (which I assume means open floor plan) demo center?AnonymousNot to my knowledge. I have heard that SVCE is developing an all-electric 'tiny house' on wheels that can be taken to community events. Potentially available in Summer '24. There may be an effort to create an electrification demo space in Palo Alto, but it is not affiliated with a CCA.Kristel Wickham11:14 AM
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37I've heard that 97% of equity-related funding for electrification is not being used. Could this be because most low-income customers live in rental units? Should these programs be re-designed so that the funds are available to more customers, while still providing significant cost reductions for low-income residents? What can be done to encourage/require landlords to utilize funds for electrification?Debbie MytelsYes, getting the electrification money to those who need it most is critically important (and difficult). The SJCE presentation included a slide about equity and engaging with renters and landlords. SVCE and PCE are working on a direct install model to specifically serve deed restricted multifamily properties. And SF Environment is working within low income communities to build trust, develop the workforce and direct funding towards low-income residents. Kristel Wickham11:15 AM
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38Echoing the previous questions by others, are there any plans for intermediate milestones so we can smooth the sudden change on January 1, 2027 & 2029?Robert MayoThe structure of Rule 9-6 is that it is already phased in two dimensions 1) it initially applies to water heaters with burners <75,001 Btuh small and medium gas, and then 4 years later in a second phase it applies to higher burner power water heaters.
2) It only applies to water heaters with manufacture dates after 12/31/26. So some plumbing distributors are encouraging plumbers to be ready to stock up on 2026 dated polluting gas water heaters to use them in the edge cases in 2027 while they otherwise try to learn low pollution solutions. ( My alternative hope is plumbers try to ramp up to move learning into 2026 and not move water heaters across years. )		Tom Kabat11:16 AM
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39Are these efforts now significant enough,
They show up in data at the utility level?

Are there before and after utility usage studies locally and over longer time periods?		BryceThe Virtual Power Plant pilot is just getting started so there may not be a lot of data yet. I'm certain that an evaluation of how much load shifting can be accomplished and the effect on the resiliency of the local grid will be done. The concept is sound and the pilot will provide learning on how to best implement the idea.Kristel Wickham11:16 AM
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40Are any organizations or utilities providing feedback to customers, after they upgrade to electric appliances, about the positive impact they are making (by using electric appliances) after the appliance is installed (especially during the payback period)? (emission averted, health benefits etc)Zoe ChafeThat is a great idea. In my own process of electrifying I've found that the knowledge that I'm not burning fossil fuels and directly polluting the environment gives me satisfaction that I'm doing 'something', and happiness that the air is a little bit cleaner. The companies that provide monitoring of solar production sometimes report the amount of emissions saved. But the CCAs and utilities could also do this on a household level. Kristel Wickham11:20 AM
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41How are we addressing the concerns of the Berkeley ruling with these new policies? And can jurisdictions work with BAAQMD to develop reach codes that are in line with the upcoming code language to help prepare the market for what's to come?AnonymousPlease see also answers to questions 11 and 43. There is a Zero NOx pathway that cities could adopt for new construction which would be supportive of the BAAQMD appliance rules in the interim. Los Altos Hills has passed such an ordinance. The setback to reach codes for new construction brought about by the Berkeley decision is unfortunate. I also hope that BAAQMD or CARB could provide some guidance for cities and counties. 11:22 AM
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42This is a plug for the City of Oakland which has set up a safe monthly space to discuss these issues for architects and contractors. See https://www.bigoakland.space/bec
It takes place in-person, monthly in Oakland.		BryceThanks, Bryce!Kristel Wickham11:23 AM
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43Folks, what about the Elephant in the Room: the Ninth Circuit Decision against the City of Berkeley's all-electric reach codes? What's the advice on how cities & counties can use policy in lieu of this setback to bridge the gap between today & BAAQMD Rules?AnonymousTwo example model codes in light of that ruling are available here: https://bayareareachcodes.org/ Blake Herrschaft11:23 AM
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Los Altos Hills has adopted a Zero-NOx approach. San Jose, San Luis Obispo and others have ordinances with Energy Performance standards. San Francisco has announced they are continuing to enforce their existing electric reach code ordinance. Some believe that a 'dual coverage' approach (both zero NOx and energy performance standards) will deter lawsuits. Green Building Program incentives (density bonus, floor area ratio, building height, lot coverage) for all-electric new construction should be considered if a city decides to suspend enforcement of their all-electric reach code. See Sunnyvale's Green Building Program incentives here (PDF): https://www.sunnyvale.ca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/892/637819320542770000 . Cities should work closely with their CCAs to adopt the best route for their jurisdictions that considers both new construction and existing buildings. Kristel Wickham
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44Will the chat record of resource URLs be distributed to attendees? And where will the webinar recording be made available? Thanks for an incredibly informative, well-organized series of presentations!AnonymousYes the chat record of links is provided on the next tab.Kristel Wickham11:24 AM
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45What about OVER sizing of HVAC?
I see many contractors installing too big units,
particularly leaving air infiltration or insulation low hanging fruit on the table.

How can we get away from 1:1 replacement?		BryceAgree this is a concern. Contractor training programs should address weatherization, 'right-sizing' of systems, and planning for electrification with existing electric panel capacity. Perhaps other incentives could come into play as well.Kristel Wickham11:27 AM
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46Would welcome help spreading the word about a Healthy Air, Healthy Home electrification workshop on May 16 in Pacifica, organized by 350SV, sponsored by PCE, and co-sponsored by 11 local orgs, including Acterra. Thanks! https://bit.ly/HealthyAirHealthyHome Linda Hutchins-KnowlesThank you Linda. Great example of educating the community.Kristel Wickham11:27 AM
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47Peninsula Clean Energy gives grants to 16 local Community Based Organizations to get the word out about building electrification in our community! https://www.peninsulacleanenergy.com/peninsula-clean-energy-awards-530k-in-outreach-grants-for-local-nonprofits/ Kirsten Andrews-SchwindThanks Kirsten! Kristel Wickham11:28 AM
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