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The new Otomatch spreadsheet for 2021-2022 is up on
The most recent convos from Chat, DO Chat and SOAP/Reapp are coppied to the Chat over there.
Please continue the chat over there.
This spreadsheet will be archived on 4-3-21.
This sheet is closing... if you did not match, consider emailing – there are about 15 of us signed up to get banded together. I'm planning on sending the email out later today or tomorrow to initially connect us all. If you want to be included, shoot an email to that address and i'll get you on the email chain. A couple successful reapplicants have also been included on the chain.If you are a successful reapplicant, please considering emailing that address as well so we can get your valuable input!
what are you guys doing with your current research projects (like ongoing chart reviews) if you're not staying at your home institution? are you passing it off to MS3's or continuing to work on it? < passing most things on except for the low hanging fruit that i can submit in the next month or so< If I won't be able to at least have a draft ready by June, going to pass it off.
what year during residency are you allowed to start wearing your own scrub cap?<PGY1 < MS3 <Premed Never...lunch lady hat for life. At least if the OR Nurse Nazis have their way.
someone make the FB group before this page
For people that are +100k in debt, how worried are you about the amount that you can pay back during residency? < Not worried, just trying to pay interet and keep it the same. Will have $400k in debt at graduation froim undergrad/school. Grew up beyond comfortable with a household income of about 80k... anything above that is rich for me so definitely not worried lol. After residency, you can be in the top 10% by liiving on 150K and use the rest to pay of your loans in a few yours. no need to worry < doing about 300/month of loan repayments during residency and then getting PSLF < Do some more research on PSLF if this is your route. It's counterintuitive, but your goal is to minimize any payment if pursuing PSLF. Stay on top of your employment certification forms (ECF) and file q6months to establish a strong paper trail and document your qualifying payments. This route isn't for everyone, but makes sense if you have a large debt burden and anticipate a job in academics (or another 501c.3 / gov't employer) and/or have training extended by research/fellowship. PSLF gets complicated quickly and doesn't make sense for every situation or career trajectory. Check out the PSLF-Eligible Physicians facebook page for some helpful tips. It's also worth checking out some of the calculators to determine if it makes sense for you. < big +1
Let's try to get a complete '21 match roster. I think Louisville and Wake Forest are left < Rutgers too< Dartmouth, McGovern, New Mexico, Texas A&M
Is there any tab that has a list of ENT journals that are solid to submit to? > otolaryngology-HNS (White journal), laryngoscope, JAMA ENT, AMJO, annals of ORL, otology neurotology, IJPO, Head and Neck, International Forum of Allergy & Rhinology< are you me, haha?Scimago is a great source for identifying journals: I used this for my other work prior to ENT in fields I wasn't as familiar with journals. I don't really know how to interpret their way of ranking journals, but they're roughly in order of "solid-ness". I personally dont find it that useful for ENT because the aforementioned journals are really the main ones (especially the big 3: JAMA Oto, Laryngoscope, OHNS... plus I personally love AJO as a mid-level). Also the facial plastics realm has additional solid ones (FPSAM, PRS, Aesthetic surgery, etc.)
New sheet is up on
Any recommendations on how many aways MS3s should apply to given we can only do one this year? < Matched M4 here. Last year before COVID blew up, I was told to apply early but only to programs that you are 100% going to do an away at. You don't want to make it seem like you are less interested in a program if you have to turn down the away. This year because your single away is going to be so important, I would apply to 2-3 and choose one. +1 <OK, does it tend to rub programs the wrong way if you decline an acceptance? Just curious about the optics of that process < program dependent, but yes generally < resident here, I think its honestly not that
The otorank page is at least somewhat inaccurate. Looking at my home program's info listed, and idk who inputted that info. Appreciate the effort that went into it of course, but I just want to caution people from basing too much off of it. < I think the residents from my home program are editing it too
With the page closing down soon, is there any interest in creating an OTO residents class of 2026 facebook page or slack channel?<I second facebook page. We can share intern-year advice etc on it +3<Someone make it
Feeling blue and this lyric helped. Hope it helps another soul.

Hurt so bad, More than I expected that it would
Worse than that . . .
It seems to be lasting just a little longer than it should
It's alright, If you finally stop caring
Just don't go and tell someone that does
'Cause even though I know there's hope in
Every morning song . . .
I have to find that melody alone
-Avett Bros
Thoughts about the AAMC recommendation for program directors to look disfavorably upon students doing more than 1 away? Anyone heard anything directly from PDs?< how could a PD know if we did more than 1 away if we don't write about it? < I guess that's part of the question, is there a way for PDs to tell?
< Crazy that MDs were not allowed aways in 2020, but DO's did 5+ in the same year. Sounds like a COVID related study for a motivated researcher. < FYI, a lot of the DO rotations are only 2 weeks. Some of these programs prioritize/only interview applicants that do an away at the program. Not justifying anything, but it's important to know the whole picture. < Should DOs do away rotations this year? If they dont do away rotations, they more than likely wont match.
Umm...your dean is going to send your transcript. And you will likely get a LOR from at least one of your aways. < Is 1 audition only really going to be policed this year? I understand the reasoning but if auditions are open then we should be allowed to go. If our school doesnt care if we go on multiple, should we? < No. Why do it? Any benefit would be marginal and you risk having to explain it later. It would be hard to explain your reasoning without coming off as a jerk. The market for away rotations is going to be tight this year and you could deny someone else the opportunity for their only away rotation. < Absolutely, that is understandable. If you dont have a home program, I feel like you would need to rotate at more than one place to get 2 LORs? < Coming from a school without a home program, I feel like I need 2 aways, there's already inequity since students with home programs get their home experience and also an away < Couldn't you get a letter from 2 faculty where you do your away? Also, when aways were cancelled last year, there were some exceptions made for students without home programs. Any word if that's the case this year? < The only exception would be that students without home programs can do away rotations earlier this year than students with home programs, AAMC recommended that students with home programs only be allowed to do aways starting in August. The issue with getting 2 faculty letters from an away (remember this is typically 4 weeks) is that it doesn't compare to home letters where you've worked with them for years, also the chance of getting 2 strong letters (not just letters to check boxes) from a single away rotation is slim, honestly if AAMC wanted to even the playing field, allowing for 2 away rotations for students without home would've been the move
what was the gender distribution of oto applicants this year?
I had >15 interviews, including 7-8 top programs. Dropped through my rank list to #12. Its been a week and I am still completely devastated. Did anyone experience this? Struggling with feeling alone. I know I was lucky to match, but still feels like my dreams were crushed. < it's hard to know how people decided to rank programs, but based on the match list i guaruntee that you are not alone. i see several people on there who interviewed at 7+ of the top ten programs and still ended up matching at home or a lower tier program. i'm really surprised by it < I attended a medical school that I thought was a "safety" program, and I was definitely disappointed that I couldn't be in a "better" program that was closer to where I grew up. But I learned immediately after I began that I was surrounded by great people, there were great things to do, and that if I worked hard enough, my future would be bright. You've done incredible work to get where you are, and you MATCHED. Into one of the most competitive specialties. I completely understand your feelings of disappointment, and you should feel all your feels. But I do hope you move into a place of acceptance soon, and you will realize how much beauty there is ahead of you<I matched at my #12, had 3 out of the top 5 programs on my rank list. I know how it feels, but as I have been accepting where I matched, it's amazing how it's all worked out in ways that it wouldn't necessarily have if I matched at those top programs. < matched at my #9 out of 13 and extremely dissapointed, but I am hoping I can just make the most out of it! < Matched my last rank program a couple years ago. It's ok to feel bummed- I know lucky to match and all, but you have every right to be disappointed at first. Nonetheless, you will realize with time that your ranklist is somewhat an arbitrary construct that you box yourself into, and in reality most programs are quality. Likewise, although you know your ranklist no one else does. So your rank number you match at will only matter as long as you care.Sorry that happened to you. It does suck to have your vision of the next five years altered. It sounds trite, but after you give yourself a little time to be bummed, try to focus on some things you like about your new program, as well as reminding yourself that in five years you will be an ENT. That is great no matter what program you attend.
If you had to pick one, would you skim over Pasha or ENT secrets before you started your intern year? < Stick with Secrets before intern year. Try to read through and take notes on Pasha once per year DURING residency and you will ace the inservice. < Otolaryngology Cases: The University of Cincinnati Clinical Portfolio is actually pretty solid basic overview. Covers 100 different cases in a simple way. < going to second the comment about Pasha and acing the inservice. Its essentially the one book I read over and over again for quick studying and I have been destroying inservice the last 3 years. 60% of the time it works every time. < They should pay you to write a blurb for the cover....Justin you reading this? ;)< ENT secrets is more read-able
I didn't match and my school won't let me stay another year unless I do a leave of absence. Should I just graduate or do the leave of absence? < what exactly does leave of absence mean?< Essentially that I was not able to finish up 4th year and need to repeat it again. Some people do that to get an MPH or take a research year or if someone dies in their family etc. Faculty: At least at our program, for reapplicants it doesn’t matter if you graduate or not, do research or prelim. What matters is to address the fact you are reapplying in your PS and explain what you have done to make yourself a better candidate the second time around. What will get you excluded from here is to try to hide the fact that you didn’t match and then we read in a LOR that you didn’t match. Some say that not graduating may get you through a filter that screens you out for interviews, but those programs will also pick up on the fact you are reapplying and just screen you out once they see your app. Really the only advantage is you are still considered a med student and could do rotations and theoretically aways. They are not allowing aways until Aug effectively halving the number of away spots since you can only do them Aug/Sept. I think all the away spot will be taken by first time students and reapplicant will be put at the end. So they only advantage would be doing rotations/sub I’s at your own institution to get letters (in ENT and dual apply) <+1 DUAL APPLY< Thank you so much for the response! I'm just afraid that the leave of absence would look bad for both specialties.
For budgeting: I am adding in employer deductions for things like medical/dental/life/disability insurances. However, in my sample contract there is no mention of there being a cost (specifcially says benefits are at little/no cost to residents). For this reason, do I need to subtract these deductions? Or is my posted annual salary my REAL pre-tax salary? < your posted annual salary is gross (pre-tax). There will be a cost for medical, dental, vision, etc. A small disability policy may be included in your contract but will only apply while you are a resident. You should definitely get disability ASAP
How much did Step 2 ultimately factor in to your application? Anyone ask about or mention step 2 on interviews or was it mostly step 1? < Didn't take it until mid-February, didn't get asked about it once. Average step 1 score (245-250), matched at #1 < had a huge (20+) score bump from step 1 to step 2. no one ever mentioned it. Had it in before interviews went out, so it's possible it helped tip the scales to score an extra interview or two, but I doubt it. < similar story, scored 235-240 on step 1 so took step 2 really early so I could show improvement and scored 255-260 and it was only brought up once, but I think it may have helped me land a couple more interviews< Anyone match with a drop in step 2? < based on stats sheet, yes < yes, dropped nearly 10 points. took it pretty late though < dropped 10 pts with step 2 from an already average step 1 score, score was submitted in my application, no one batted an eyeWent from 230s Step 1 --> 240s Step 2 (roughly same percentile). No one mentioned it, still got 12IVs, though I remember angsting about this for so long. < did you match?< 250s dropped to 240s. got plenty of interviews, it was never brought up, and matched < 260 dropped to 240 but took it in January and did not upload it to ERAS since it only came one week before ranks were due. Noone ever asked about not having Step 2. Matched to an amazing program.< I think it's against regulations to not upload step 2 scores or any tests for that matter so that's pretty interesting that you got away with it < It is not against regulations. The only requirements are based on what the residency programs want for interviewing or ranking. < 230s to 240s person here. Yes, I did match!< Historically, it has been hard to use step 2 CK scores to evaluate applicants. Only a % of applicants actually have step 2 on their ERAS so programs still default to step 1 for fiiltering applications. This is unfortunate for the applicant that gets a below average step 1 and then makes significant improvements on step 2. With step 1 going p/f I wouldn't be surprised if programs start to look more closely at step 2 CK, but it won't be useful while only a fraction of applicants have reported scores and step 1 scores are universally included in ERAS.
Anyone know what the format of the personal statement for away rotations should be? Similar to the PS for ERAS or more like a program specific paragraph? < programs often have their own prompt -- at least the ones I was going to apply to did
Planning to reapply next year dual ENT, General Surgery. I am worried about my chances in GS, based on percieved lack of comittment. Other than a solid PS is there anything I can do to demonstrate that I would be happy to do general surgery? < strong GS letters and subI performance < I matched as a first-time ENT applicant and dual-applied to a non-surgical subspecialty. I think the biggest thing is to have a strong home PD letter in your other specialty. That can dispell a lot of concerns in your other specialty. < in a similar position to reapply, OP how are you going to balance your time commitment in ent vs gen surg over the next few months and have new things for your ent app? im struggling with this< no chance of you doing research or getting pubs during gen surg PGY1. if possible get Core ENT rotations (Rads, Anesthsia, NSG, Plastics and at leat 3 months of ENT). This will let give you the option to swap into a PGY1 or 2 spot in ENT if it opens up (rare but it happens). Being a hard worker that gets things done and a solid LOR from you Gen surg PD (July and August rotation) goes farther than a research interest that doesn't get least at programs outside you PGY1 year.
Unmatched applicant planning to reapply in the fall here. I was advised to change my letters of recommendation for the next time I apply, but is it okay if 1-2 of them still come from the same people (chair of my home department and mentor)? Should they be addressing the fact that I didn't match in their LOR if I'm already going to be mentioning it my personal statement?< Yes its fine. The biggest thing for them to talk about is how you improved over the last year. < Agree. I would have them emphasize how you have remained committed to ENT and how your app has improved. < Use some of the same writers, but make sure its a new letter at least.if you were advised to change your LORs it may be because some of them wren't so great. not trying to be harsh, but if they won't let you see the LORs maybe they arnt that great. < OP here. I was just generally advised to change my letters from people who hadn't seem them but knew that I am a reapplicant. I'm confident that the letters were strong, they were regularly brought up on the interview trail.
Anyone got some recommendations for good places to get cheap furniture (couch/futon, kitchen table, and coffee table) for a studio (going for a modern/simplistic style)? Unfortunately won't be doing ikea since it's pretty far and shipping is expensive and not free< Craigslist(+1). Look at areas with high incomes you can find some great shit. Just watch for awhile though so you figure out what is good price vs. bad. < check with residents or medical students at your school who are moving to other cities, there's usually people at my school who send out emails every year about selling stuff < costco! < love offerup for stuff like this tbh <trashroom around noon on the 25th-31st of your own appartment and a trip to lowes for paint and screws got me through college.Wayfair has some great options! < You can join "buy nothing" groups on facebook. We have outfitted my daughter's room (bed, nightstand, desk) for free. + better for the environment to reuse
Happy about my match but a little worried about moving away from my family (near big city). There was some discussion about this below, but how hard is it to get a job in a pretty desirable location AND doing what you wanna do if you wanna specialize (after doing residency far from there)? Obviously there will be differences based on sub specialty so any insight into that would be helpoful too. < this n of 1 for me but ive heard from 2 fellows and 1 young attending that its not super easy to get location, what you wanna do, and competitive pay. you will have to sacrifice and often times it depends on the year < right, i've heard this too and that it's easy to get location if you give up focus and/or pay. But can you get location and focus if you just give up pay? <yes, but it depends on how much pay you can give up. you can always hang up your own shingle. that will take about $500k with a 3 year payout in most places. in 3-5 years, you will have established yourself and can do what ever you have marketed yourself to do. Big groups will require a $100-500k buyin but that can be paid out over 3-5 years usually. If they cant make that buyin painless, then its not worht buying in.Can you give us some info on the location you are looking to come back to and what $$$ you looking for first year post-fellowship? < NYC and unclear what salary I should even be setting as a minimum
Anyone have an idea about when we'll hear about Academy abstracts?
dumb question, but is it at all possible to apply to ENT and Ophtho as a backup? < yes, but ophtho match is separate from ENT match and earlier. So if you matched ophtho, you would have to withdraw from all ENT programs. Basically, ophtho would be your first choice and ENT your backup specialty<damn ok thats what I was thinkingNot sure why you would dual apply to two competitive specialties. Would probably hurt your app in both because you're dividing your efforts. <90% match rate for US seniors is a heck of a lot better than 68% < ENT used to be an early match. This may be part of the reason why dual applyng hasn't been presented by PD's. In the early match, unmatched ENT applicants had more options by entering the traditional match. < tough to do research on this, but i suspect ENT traded dual applying for couples matching. winners and loosers in any game.< Good point. Hadn't considered this.
How much are yall single residents in High cost of living areas planning on saving per month? Seems like its gonna be a rough ride trying to save a couple hundred bucks a month <going to be in a CA large city and im just trying to make ends meet, might have to get a roomie < i don't want a roomate so i'm paying about 2k/month for a studio. i'm not gonna have much take home income after that +3 < Same. I've been debating whether or not I want to back to the days of having a roommate, after living alone for so long...I am splurging to live by myself as well. I settled for mediocre housing throughout college and med school with roommates, but I'm so ready to live alone. My pup is my roommate :)
now that the NRMP data has come out for 2021 it's time to do some number crunching. the match rate for US MD Seniors (calculated as US MD Seniors who matched/US MD Seniors who applied) was the following for the classic competitive specialities: ENT (68%), Neurosurgery (74%), Derm (74%), Ortho (75%), Plastics (70%). this is just one gauge of specialty competitiveness but it's the one i prefer. what do you guys think? unlucky year to choose to be an ENT if you ask me < i know people ask this every year, but do yall think it'll be better next year? i remember people said it couldn't possibly get worse last year, but lo and behold this year was even worse, but there's no possible way it goes down even further right?? <no way, this was a record low. once people realize how competitive it is the pendulum usually swings back in the other direction < they've been saying that it's a record low for the last 2 years, and the pendulum is gonna switch for the next year. Soooo... who knows. Could get worse < Yeah, some people thought that covid would discourage peole to apply ENT this cycle since applicants would have difficulty completing ENT rotations, that didn't happen. People also thought that there might be SOAP spots due to interview hoarding, that didn't happen. Everybody is pretty bad at predicting what the next application cycle will look like. Just assume it will be bad and be prepared. It's hard to be overprepared when applying for ENT residency. Don't assume that this next cycle will show a reversion to the mean. < I feel like competitiveness won't change people's opinions or decisions drastically. A lot would need to happen for ENT to return to its 2017/2018 days of having fewer applicants than spots available. If anything, increasing competitiveness will just encourage people to dual apply. Applicants in other competitive specialties like vascular and cardiac routinely dual apply into general surgery. ENT will eventually just move the same way where it's standard to dual apply unless you're feeling really spicy about your chances. < And I would also say there are probably very few people who are applying who have very little chance of getting in. Most people, including many who didn't match this year, were great applicants. So why would a good applicant be discouraged from trying to get into their dream? They should feel, rightly so, likely to get in. I do agree that dual applying will become more common. I'm already telling all hte 3rd years at my school to dual apply unless they really have an amazing application. The final thing to note is that while ENT was the worst this year, every "competitive" specialty got more competitive. It's a part of a larger trend that is not ENT-specific < i would look at the track record of students from your home program in the past 3 years. if it was a 100% match rate every time and you have good advisors and a strong application, you may not need to dual apply. it never hurts to be safe though < Top 10 schools went unmatched this year. School tier didn't matter as much this year. The key was strong application and someone who is willing to go out of their own way to help you < Dual application is a good thing, but dual applying integrated vascular/CT surgery + gen surg is a much easier logistically than dual applying ENT + any specialty. Vascular/CT surgery are all available via fellowship after a general surgery rotation. The LORs and relationships between integrated vascular/CT surgeons require very little modification of ERAS applications. ENT doesn't have an analogous back-up for dual application which offers an alternative way into Oto. Any dual application with ENT generally requires you to hide the fact that you are dual applying from each specialty. Without an anlogue like general surgery for those applying to integrated vascular/CT, I don't think dual applying will ever be completely normalized in ENT. < its a little tougher, but not that bad, with a lot of upsides. Just did my surgery sub-i early and got a few letters through that. < is 68% an all time low? <I think it's lower per my calculations, moreso 62.5% and can be even lower depending on how you calculated it. Based on the #signals and #spots, I remember calculating a 61-62%, what's changed?< i think that includes US MD grads, DO's, IMG's. I like the metric for US seniors because it's more generalizable across specialties. Some specialties have a higher proportion of DO and IMG applicants which would create confounding Has anyone done a breakdown of % match based on applying straight thru vs taking a research year? 62% is low but could be even lower for applicants with only 4 years vs others. < There was a Laryngoscope study linked down below (published in ?2019) that basically concluded that research years help with matching into a top 25 OHNS program but does not increase match rate into OHNS overall. <other findings include that this helped match those with Step 1 230-240, Top 25 med schools, and those with step >260...suspect the >260s are the once that got those top 25 spots. the rest of us should cast as wide a net as possible.
Does anyone have a tactical way to ask about when we can schedule our vacations for next year? < I know my program has all the residents schedule vacation at the beginning of the year with preference for more senior residents. It is program specific and you could just ask your program if it is done all at one time or if it is scheduled throughout the year. < we just matched 2 weeks ago. give them some time to get stuff together. we were already told not to plan anythign for june-august so i would just be patietn if i were you. they'll ask soon enough
have the results of the signal survey been posted yet?Survery closes March 31. Results should be up early April. Around the time we transition over to the new spreadsheet.
Was there any school with a home program where none of their applicants matched at all? < Probably. But says more about the applicants than the school. < yes mine and yes has more to do with applicants than school < my school none of the students matched, one had no place applying, but rest were fine so idk what happened < anyone want to share the schools? < at my school both of us applying were decently strong and both failed to match despite >10 interviews. <I believe Penn State went 0/2?< I think USF 0/3 < According to the spreadsheet, 1 USF person matched at home
I totally don't know this, do we get medical/dental insurance as residents? < Yes, you should. You can look on your program's website where they should list your benefits. < Yep, your benefits should be listed under your institution's GME office page
Any recommendations for messenger bags to get us through residency in the hospital? Looking for something with lots of compartments and space, but not too unwieldy < timbuk2 classic messenger bags are great. You can get them in a range of sizes to fit whatever you need.<I went all out and got one from Basader (I'm big on my leather). Would highly recommend, though it was pricey. < I got one from Marlondo which was slightly cheaper than Basader but still full grain leather and built like a rock - more my aesthetic, would highly recommendJust one consideration, if you are wanting this to be your main call bag, you may want something cheaper as it will be going into patient rooms and getting dirty
Anybody else floored by the current costs of rental moving trucks? I have rented from Budget, UHaul, etc. multiple times for several long moves but the prices for this summer are at least 7-8x what I have seen in the past. Not sure how we're supposed to afford $4,000 for just a moving truck rental. < yeah, I'm hiring movers for a cross-city move and it's like $400 for 2-3 hrs < Dude go with a POD. lots of time to load and unload. Granted it wont work in a high rise, but theyare way cheaper andhave much more flexible loading and unloading times. < yeah great point! Unfortunately am moving into a high rise haha < Theres really nobody you know with a truck and trailer out there to borrow for free? I've moved across the country before and would never pay somebody to move my stuff lol, what a waste of money (Of course other than returning it with a full tank of gas and a twelve pack)Had a friend say Costco offers much cheaper truck rental with unlimited miles...haven't looked into it yet though but that might be an alternative?
Anyone have helpful tips on what to include in a short essay about why you want to go to a specific program? What is good material to include? < Research the program and see what interests you about it. There's no secret sauce for this stuff < I find personal connections (i.e. SO got a job offer, family nearby, hometown, etc.) more convincing than academic appeals. But that's just me.
Anyone learn R without a coding background? I am looking for some good resources to learn it and start using it for some basic hypothesis testing. < I didn'have a coding background per se, but worked in finance so was very familiar with Excel/stats. I used to start learning R, but I think the best way to learn is applying it to real-world problems. That is, if there's an analysis you want to do and have done in Excel, etc. before, try doing it in R instead. It'll take longer at the beginning, but you'll learn more as you work through your own use cases.< SPSS is a litle more user friendly (less coding) than R. Far more powerful than Excel, but not quite as good as R. SPSS recently did some upgrades and it has a better interface and added some extras like Bayesian stats that it didn't have before. < OP here, thanks, but I already use SPSS. For various reasons I am looking at making the switch to R. < I learned R with zero coding background! It was not difficult, Quick-R ( is a good resource and there is a built in tutorial (I think it's called 'cars') that you can play around with while you are learningDataquest for R Data Analysis < Zero coding background here (never even taken a stats class before med school), Stata's the best overall in my opinion, but has its drawbacks; R good for quick analyses. I only use Stata now, but I previously taught myself R literally just by Youtube searching what I needed to run for each project (real-world as mentioned)... "Uploading data RStudio" "Summary statistics RStudio" "Shapiro wilk test Rstudio" "Chi square RStudio" "Wilcoxon test Rstudio" "Logistic regression RStudio" "Survival curve RStuidio" etc. It takes like 60 minutes to learn enough R for publishing in the top ENT journals. Got a handful of papers accepted thanks to YouTube. Once you get the feel of it, refer to this cheatsheet for language:<TY
How did you all spend the time between interviews and match day? Asking for someone who has their last interview tomorrow and 25 days until Match Day (not the NRMP match)< partied with friends< cancun <so yoiu can come beck to Canada from Mexico but not the US (eye roll)
FYI - Penn just announced that new chair will be Dr. Gregory Farwell from UC Davis. Plan for him to start during summer 2021. < so who will be chair at Davis?? < good thing I didn't match there. Dr. Farwell was the best thing about the program. +2 < wow amazing. How do Davis residents feel about this? Such a sad loss for them <Good for him, such a gentleman < huge get for Penn, esp considering the demand for high quality chairs is going to be so high in the next few months. win win for both of thm < which penn? penn state or upenn? < UPenn. Dr. Goldenberg is at Penn State and isn't going anywhere< Any updates on who will be the new chairs at Vandy or MEEI? <no idea but I volunteer myself
Where do I buy Baileys? Amazon is sold out < you can get the pdf easily online < wait you mean abook or the alcohol? < Hated buying it- already 7y out of date but still super expensive <the atlas or the textbook?If you like the narative style chapters, Llawani's book is more up to date. I still prefer Pasha. < Pasha is more rapid review than real reading/learning resource thoughDon't buy books until you start residency. You will have access to more books than you can count through your program < also educational stipend as a resident so you won't be paying out of pocket < + 1 for waiting until you get access through these books through your program. You can try before you buy. We have all of the major textbooks available digitally and I like being able to download the relevant chapter to my ipad for reading whenever and wherever.
Doesn't seem to be much interest in a post match Stats survey this year. The main factors (step 1, pubs, med school tier) are in the Signal Survey. The only thing not in the signal survey is match status. So for this year I'm just going to leave that off...and leave it to the OPDO surveys to determine if signals correlate with match and not just interviews. If anyone hasn't filled out the Signal suvey consider this the last plug since it will close on March 31.
Impact of Medical Student Research Fellowships - Discussion
Copied from below because I think this articles offers some good info for applicants and warants more discussion
Limitations - Lets get these out of the way first.
Excluded reapplicants
Method and completeness of data on who matched is very vague. They don't report any of the raw numbers, only percentages and Odds Ratios. I suspect they are masking incomplete data here.
Didn't break things down by year, so include the "easy" ENT match years
-First stage, excluding reapplicants, FMGs and DO gives some insight into UNCs screening process. <+2 Definitely tipped their hands
-Average Step 1 248 vs 245 for no fellowship vs fellowship groups, but dont list matched vs unmatched averages by group
< I don't want to assume too much, but the forest plot showed an interesting positive trend with those that had step 1 scores of 230-239. The effect size is impressive and the result barely missed the level of significance. Mixed with my own non-scientific experience, it seems like these fellowships probably have the most benefit for well-qualified, but potentially borderline applicants (US-MD schools with OHNS programs) looking to overcome a moderately below average (for ENT) board score. < Which is pretty much what you'd expect < Yes, I wish someone would do a similar study, but looking at reapplicants. I think it's more of a ?
Is there any point in continuing to pay for AOA membership now?< what was ever the point? < to put it on my cv and the diploma on my wall < yeah after you get the initial diploma (Which I do think is low cost and worth it) then no point to keep paying.. no one else doesIf you want their magazine, that's the cost of the Magazine. And I guess you could end up applying for one of their few scholarships/grants.I was thinking maybe you needed to keep paying dues to buy their fashion accessories. Nope, any joe or jane doe can buy an AOA necktie or bowtie.
Anyone have any good info on disability insurance? < check out the white coat investor (< If you have a pre-existing condition that could affect your coverage, it is better to start with the insurance offerred through your residency. If you find one on the open market and get denied, this denial question can cause future disability insurance applications to be denied.
Anyone else lowkey stressed about how to spend the time between med school and intern year? There's so much I want to do but, with the pandemic and intern year slowly approaching, I'm a lil afraid that I'm not taking full advantage of this time < Agreed, I feel like I'm going to spend lots of time looking up and thinking about fun things to do but not actually be able to do much of it < I would recommend traveling within the US. If I was you I would check out some good hiking spots (Utah, Colorado, Maine, Washington... etc). Maybe Hawaii if you can afford it. Or perhaps a roadtrip? Can also consider traveling to the Caribbean. Definitely get out there and do 'something cool' (while keeping in mind that something cool doesnt always mean spending a ton of money). Its undoubtedly a tough time right now, but just remember that youre about to spend 5 years within a fairly strict and high stress work schedule. Do some day trips, play a weekend getaway... just get out there and find your personal way of unwinding. 'Adults' (which you will soon become) dont often get opportunity like this.
We've all been told that 90% rank on their top 3 but I don't believe it. Post the # you ranked on your list in the cell to the right < Positions period, or Unique institutions? <positions since that's how NRMP counts it < 90% in their top 5 based on old, small sample data < Yep was *70%* top 3 not 90% < bumped up, also fill the stats page with it if you can. Im sure ms3's will be curious
I'm interested in this so bumping it to top again. ---sam
#1 (+31), #2 (+14), #3 (+17) #4 (+11), #5 (+12), #6 (+5) #7 (+4), #8 (+7), #9 (+6), #10 (+2), #11 (+3), #12, #13 (+1), #14 (+1), #15, etc. (+0) Preliminary data to the right (3/22/21) < looks like a longer right tail < What are you comparing it to? < old data (previously calculated for prior year, far down below), both subject to bias < It looks like the median is between ranks 2 and 3.
< I don't think there is any way to lock down a spot at any sized program. Be the best candidate all around , work hard, and be friendly. There is no secret formula. < treat everybody well < Yup, no secret hack or formula to gurantee yourself a match. Just look at the applicants stats tab. There isn't great discrimination between matched and unmatched applicants. I am not a fan of basing Tier off of program size, but it sounds like yall are saying ultimately it sounds like doing 3 or so aways at a few 1 spot programs might not be as "high yield" as 3 or so aways at programs with more spots? Anyone else have insights on it? < No, I don't think you can make this conclusion at all. < If you are trying to decide where to do an away, look at programs that historically guranteed an interview to away rotators. Bonus points if there is a prominent faculty member there who you think would be able to write you a strong LOR. You will have to dig around in the otomatch sheets priror to this cycle to find that info. The insights on aways gained from this sheet are limited since this is the first cohort in decades without in-person away rotations. FWIW, from the ACGME perspective Program Tier = Program Size
Anyone on here have a peloton? My SO (with strong career outside of medicine) and I are considering getting one. Most gyms in area where we matched are still closed. Thinking it might be nice for home workouts in residency, but not ready to pull the trigger. Thoughts? < I don't have one right now, but my roommate does and I use it all the time. I definitely plan on getting one in residency. It's definitely an expensive investment, but it's so easy to just get home or wake up in the morning and jump on the bike. They have so many different types of workouts ranging from short, low-impact to professional cyclist-guided long hill climbs. I honestly thought it was really gimmicky at first, but having a guided workout in the comfort of your own home that pushes you has been so good. Definitely has pushed me into way better shape and it's just so convenient/easy/time-saving. <100% get one < if you don't need the metrics to be motivated to work out, you can get a cheaper but still nice bike (~$400) and do free youtube classes. I really like the 20 minute HIIT classes< OP here, we both like their bodyweight/dumbell/yoga workouts through the app, but are skeptical if the bike is worth it. I've heard of people combining the app with a cheaper stationary bike option. < I use a $900 bike with the peloton app ($13/month vs $40/month). I'd recommend that route if you don't mind not having the leaderboard and some of the metrics, and havivg to use a resistance converting chart (peloton uses their own numbers). Also, it's like a 2-3 month shipping delay for the peloton rn. < i have used a family member's peloton and i also thought i wouldn't like it and woudl think it was gimmicky. i actually loved it and decided to do the cheaper bike option to make sure it was worth it. i bought a used pretty nice one for <500 and use the peloton app. it has worked for me so far, but i think i am going to spring for the real thing for residency. it's just easier and nicer to have classes, metrics, everything integrated on one machine. < I don't use the bike but I have the app for strength workouts and it's the best. < I think buying the bike is worth it! My boyfriend and I bought one together after we had been using the app on a cheaper bike. the leaderboard/metrics are great motivation PLUS the bike itself is very sturdy and has a great warranty. like someone mentions to the right, you can get a 0% loan and pay it off month to month, rather than paying the $1800+ upfrontPeloton also offers a payment plan so I pay $50/month for the bike until it is paid off over about 3 years, and $40/month for the membership which multiple people can use. I was paying $100/month for a spin membership at a studio so this was actually cheaper for me.
There's been a lot of discussion about research fellowships and how they're viewed by PDs and faculty, wondering if any faculty can chime in on how a research year influences an applicant's chances and what they consider to be a "productive" versus "non-productive" research year < I don't think "non-productive" is common, but "underproductive" happens < Not sure what we label it really matters, just curious how faculty and PDs view research years and what their thoughts are on "tiers" I suppose< As a reapplicant who just signed onto a research year, part of my worry is that the skills I want to work on (i.e. learning biostats and how to navigate RedCap) may not translate directly into publications within the next 5 months. Makes me wonder whether I should prioritize quick and easy pubs or more longitudinal projects that I can talk up on the interview trail. <Reapplicant who did a research year and matched - I tried to do all of the above. Some quick and easy papers to get submitted right away, some longitudinal projects to talk about on the trail, and I really made an effort to learn biostats and run my own statistical analysis on my projects (which I discussed at every interview - that's a great skill to bring to a program and shows you can learn new things quickly). < anyone quietly freaking out that they don't have these skills going into residency? < I took a research year and got ZERO publications due to working on longitudinal projects; granted i also had premed research but still, no ENT pubs this year. Average step scores. Got 4 T32 interviews, 15 total interviews, and matched at my #1 program (Top 20) so I firmly, firmly believe that quality over quantity matters. I know quantity will get you noticed but if you don't have pubs from longitudal projects, just make sure to emphasize all of the WORK that you did during the year in your activities and your efforts will shine through. <curios if there was anything else you did different your second time wround to get so many interviews. most reapplicants i've heard from with average (240s) step 1 scores didn't even get double digint numbers of interviews. < Sorry not a reapplicant, I'm a first time applicant. I just came in to respond to the post on the left which I do not think was reapplicant specific (sorry if inappropriate) to talk about research year productivity because I don't like how much talk there is about "unproductive" research years -- which is a real thing -- being conflated with "research years that result in 0 pubs". I know for reapplicants there's much more of an uphill battle so there's definitely a real concern about getting noticed. < No offense but the zero publications guy/gal above is incredibly misleading. The "does how many pubs you get matter" debate is really framed by the rest of your application. If you're a stellar candidate (step scores 26x, clinical honors, AOA etc) and do a longitudinal project research year without many pubs, you'll still get plenty of interviews because the research was just icing on the cake. But if your step scores are borderline (22x-23x), grades are average, and you take a research year with the goal of bulking your CV to better your match odds, if you fail to publish that year I can guarantee you will not get anywhere near 15 interviews and you are much less likely match your #1 or a Top-20 program, if at all. < Yeah I am zero pubs person and I agree that if you have a borderline app you're going to be facing an uphill battle and will need *something* to stand out in your application, and if you're banking on research then you would need to publish. I have average to below avg stats, 24x-23x, no AOA, but I had a very robust "research experiences" section despite no pubs from this year and did not feel that anyone faulted me for it and I was able to have great research conversations during interviews. If you are able to convey the amount of work you did on a longitudinal project in your activities I do think that counts for a lot. I just hate the movement towards applicants trying to churn out "fast projects" that use crappy stats and poor design just to get a pub; I know several people who had the grades, the pubs, the personality, and did not match. My strong suspicion from the way I've personally heard them talk about their research is that "shallow research" is very obvious on the interview trail and can be detrimental.< It looks like something on this topic was published in Laryngoscope last week. The study only looked at first time applicants. I wish they looked at reapplicants too. < that's super interesting, would be even more interesting to compare research fellows to other research fellows for trends based on institution, publication numbers, etc, also assuming applicants who take research years may have already been predisposed not to match, it's actually a positive that the match rates for research fellows and non-research fellows are comparable< a big weakness is that it includes earlier years when the applicant numbers was really low. It looks like they grouped all the years together. They should have divided it into less competitive match years amd more competive match years and compared. Matching this year or last years is very differemnt than matching in 2015. < Agreed, this is a problem across most of the research related to the ENT match. The variation in the competitiveness of each year prevents the data from being generalizable. < It's also incredibly self-selective pool of people that apply, are successful, and havent done a research year < Your point? < According to the study 1500 applicants applied, were successful and didnt do a research fellowship so I wouldn't call that selective.
Maybe I'm just missing something obvious, but how are people planning on paying for the first month of residency/moving in before residency? I've been dependent on financial aid throughout med school and doubt I'm the only one, but I don't see this issue talked about much. < use the money you saved from not having to travel for interviews :) < a lot of residencies offer programs that front your first month of rent/have deals with relator agencies. you should call your GME office about this < Some also pay for the June orientation time period as well < ty for all these suggestions! < I had to save pretty aggressively this year to have a fund to carry me over until residency. Sorry probably not that helpful to you, but to future applicants who are dependent on aid, make sure to save up throughout med school/third year for the expenses of your last year! In a typical year there are tons of interview costs as well as moving costs, plus all the fees associated with applyingI know some programs give out a stipend so maybe reach out to your PC/PD < I just got a credit card with 0% financing for the first 12 months and used it for the expenses between loans of med school and residency income. I had two other classmates go about it this way. There are a lot of credit cards out there with no annual fee that get you into the card with 12 to 24 months of 0% financing. It worked really well for me. I didn't do any fancy trips or anything though, just drove to family and friends.Take out and "emergency loan" while you are still in school. Then pay it back with your first check.My plan is a residency/relocation loan. I don't want to give SallieMae money but it seems like the only reasonable choice for low SES
Anyone get ranked to match emails and got burned? < im sure this happens and its honestly horrible. Not only are these programs doing what they shouldnt be doing, they are lying in the process. Its honestly shameful and if it happened to me I wouldnt hesitate to report them. < bumping convo from below, definition between actually RTM and historically RTM. Seems like people use them interchangably, or perhaps overinterpret something someone said as RTM. Regardless, don't put too much weight in them... < Nothing in those emails is legally binding. It's a bummer if they didn't come through but expectations of honesty should be low to begin with, just like when they ask you at an interview and you're forced to say "of course I'm ranking your program at the top!" < I had a chair tell me in my interview that I was ranked to match and he said all these fantastic things about me and my application. I was very flattered. I matched below where I ranked that program. If I see that chair at Academy or AHNS, I'll talk to him about it. < Guess it depends if he meant "ranked in position to match", like #2 and they have 3 spots, or "ranked in poition that historically matches," like if you're #12 and they usually require 5 ranks to fill each spot (15 total)- depending on algorithm and other applicant preferences they could easily not match you despite "ranking you to match." Point is don't assume everyone is a dirtbag. < ranked to match inherently implies that you are ranked higher than the number of spots within the program. If you are telling people they are ranked to match and you are talking about some historical match (which OBVIOUSLY has ZERO implication on the current match) then you are deliberately (or at least semi-deliberately) misleading people. Sorry, but not sorry; if youre telling people they are ranked to match and they dont match, you are a dirtbag. This is similar to all the discussion about telling programs you are ranking them number 1 - if you are lying or you change your mind later on without telling them, you are a dirtbag. What does ranked to match even mean? It seems like a weird phrase intended to be vague. Similar to "you would fit in well here", we were very impressed" and "looking forward to having you as a colleague" < No program really uses that exact phrase "ranked to match," especially in ENT. < Actually some programs do use that exact phrasing, but you're right it is less common in ENT
I'm scared with the advent of research fellowships, they'll become a requirement to match at a place. Just look at where people matched. That's not an even playing field. < Honestly. It's going to favor people who aren't fazed by delaying earning for a year/accruing interest another year (i.e. from wealthy families, etc.). +5 < Programs are beggining to offer funded research positions for URMs. I think that is a step in the right direction. < In fields like neurosurgery, plastics and dermatology, these research fellowships have already been the norm for most applicants for some time. They're still <10% within ENT so don't hit that panic button yet.Hmm I only see five research fellows who matched at that institution. Probably less than 5%, doesn't seem that alarming. Not to mention, there are a lot of ppl who take them and don't match because they weren't productive enough. We really don't have a full picture here<There are more that I met one the virtual trail and aren't listed as fellows. You're also seeing more in the announcement tabs. < tons of departments are seeing research fellowships as a source of cheap labor, but if you aren't productive they will kick you to the curb like yesterday's scotch bottle. if you have step 1 >245, more than 1 publication (even non-ent) and are geographically flexible you can absolutely match without taking an extra year. but if you don't tick one of those boxes and can write like the wind consider a research fellowship. < don't forget a ton of people take an extra year for informal research years between 3rd and 4th year. And I disagree with the poster before. If you tick all those boxes, you have a CHANCE at matching. With 200 people going unmatched, that's an element of randomness to be feared < lol as someone who went unmatched that ticked all those boxes and then some, I completely disagree. < how much of that randomness can be made up for by applying more places?
I'm curious to know the value of a LOI for future applicants. Let me know if you: Got into your first choice after sending a LOI (+6), got into your first choice without sending a LOI (+7), sent a LOI but didn't get your first choice (+29), or did not send a LOI and did not get your first choice (+3) < sadly, memory is short and all of our conversations will be repeated indefinitely lol < Waiting on edge for someone to do a sexy chi square analysis with this info
What does the yellow highlight mean on the stats page? < i think its a random person highlighting stuff < someone deleted me some time in January.. wish I could be there to get highlighted< i'm so flattered that they highlighted me< lol. thank you for the highlight again
[Duke survery recruitment moved to Announcements tab]
What % of people matched home/away this year? < go through the match results tab and tell me
On the '21 match results page, can we get a column to see if it was people's #1 rank/if they send a LOI? < who is going to advertise that it wasn't their number 1? maybe LOI but I only see downside to asking people to publicly post their ranking of their new program < I think columns for these (already one for rank) would be better on the stats page which is more anonymous +2So ths brings up whether I should post a stats survey for this year? With all the survey hate and rhe otomatch signal survey still open I'm worried I'll stir up more troll posts than legit info. Tand if people are up for a secure stts survey what do you want? Match at signal, virtual experience at signal, reapplicant, research fellowship...what else? —-sam
Hot take lol: Im glad to see alot of programs match outside students. I was weary of applying to programs where greater than 50% of the residents were home students. I dont think its a good look when youre too inbred. It also gives me hope to match at your program when i apply. i know some home students are bummed but i hope programs continue to inject outside students into their programs < yup, thought this would be the case < How do you know that programs arent ranking non-home students high but those applicants are ranking another place higher? I think its better to look at historic match rather than just one match outcome < AGREE! Just because this year a program doesn’t take any (or takes a bunch of) home students, that doesn’t give you the full picture. It could just be an off year. Looking at all the current residents (and several years of matches) gives you a much better picture.The difficulty with analyzing any of those possibilities is NRMP, ACGME and even otomatch have a strong case of survivor bias. There is no way of knowing. < one thing is for sure, if your home or undergrad alma mater didn't think you were worth matching you aren't likely to contribute the the young alumni fund.
can someone tell me why UCSF always matches so many home students? < only 2/5 are their home students, seems reasonable to me < FYI in past years (non-COVID) data has shown ~50% of students match at home or away. I get you're annoyed that home students matched somewhere over you but it's a very normal occurence. < I think people forget that UCSF students are top tier candidates so they are at an advantage anyways all things being equal at other programs < 2/5 this year, 1/5 last year, about 30% in the program overall - is that so many?< I dont understand why this constantly gets asked. Home students are a known entity. No matter how good someone else looks on paper and how well they do in their 20 min interview, you are still taking a gamble on a person that you essentially dont know. There are obviously a lot of factors at play, but a very good home student or rotator is an extremely valuable asset. < Programs are risk averse. I don't think every program sets out to take their own students, but they get the chance to size up their home applicants and compare to those they interview. Most programs rank some home students highly because they consider them good applicants and strong future residents. Is it sketch if an entire class is made up of home students? Yeah, but we should cut programs some slack. They have the right to keep their own interest in mind. < also, you never know if a program ranked their home students spread out through their list, and then the non-home students went elsewhere. Just because a program matched more than one home student doesn't mean that they put all those home students in the true ranked to match positions. The algorithm makes it impossible to know exactly where those home students were on the list.
Just wanted to put some thoughts and advice on this spreadsheet, as I dont think I'll ever come back on it after two years of stalking it. I came from a med school without a home program, I took a research year between 3rd and 4th year of med school and applied last year as a 4th year and didn't match with 8 interivews. I was told I was a strong applicant but maybe needed more publications, for taking a year off, which I definitely agreed with. So during quarantine last year i was able to churn out 4 pubs and did a general surgery prelim at a program with an ENT department. I dual applied ENT and anesthesia and matched anesthesia. 2nd time around as a reapp, i had 5 total ENT interviews, a lot of interviews in anesthesia. Overall things I wish I knew put more effort in is carefully choosing mentors and getting better Letters of Rec from bigger name people. I think the "generic letter" from a big name vs. a personal letter from someone close is an interesting debate. I had some really nice letters from people who I worked closely with and but were either new in the department or just didn't carry that much of a weight. So im biased to thinking that getting even a generic letter from someone at a power house program is better. Also get some mentors who will bat for you. I would say that I am a pretty personable, I felt like i did very well at my aways, and made a lot of friends during the interview trail. I also felt that interviewing was a strong suit for me too. But I felt that I put my trust in the wrong hands, and when I needed help, I really didn't get the effort of backing up that I thought I worked for/deserved. Overall as an applicant I was definitley average or slightly below average, and I understand that but I know plenty of people who were exactly like me who matched. I felt like not having a home program was a real bummer as the majority of the top of my list accepted half of their home students. Overall, am I bummed that I didn't match ENT? yes. But am I going to move on with my life and still do a great field at a great program and still be happy? also yes. I do wish the stigma against the reapp was changed. I definitely was screened out of programs just bc they saw I already graduated. I think the best move, if able, is to delay graduation, be able to do an away or cotinue to work with the home ENT department while being able to do rotations in the back up specialty, bc as a reapp your chances are just substantially lower and its even more of an uphill battle to climb. All about managing expectations, obviously grind as much as you can but just know that even with this field, giving it your all you can still come up short and that sucks. But also don't corner yourself into having limited options in both the backup and ENT, bc your options for ENT are already going to be lower the 2nd time around, so might as well maximize your chances and options in your back up. Overall good luck to everyone reapplying, and congrats to everyone who matched. There are a lot of amazing people in the field, friends who I have made, and drinks that I have shared. You guys and gals are all fantastic and it was pleasure to get the oppurtunity to meet some of you.< The whole, "having someone to go to bat for you" is really the worst thing. Because so much of it is luck. You can work so hard for someone, and really know and like eachother, but 1. that doesn't mean they are a big name, and 2. even if they are, and they think extremely highly of you, many won't go out of hteir way to make sure you get into your top program. My issue was the second. My mentor wrote me an amazing letter, and i've gotten to know them extremely well over the last few years, and I KNOW they love me. But it was an awkward conversation to get them to make a phone call for me, because that's not what they usually do. Can't help but feel like that hurt me a little, and thus I fell on my list <FWIW one mentor making a call really would not have made much difference, especially if they felt uncomfortable doing it. just like some applicants are better interviewees some mentors are better salemen for their mentees. < Agreed, cold calls won't help you much. Might be more helpful if the mentor called a program where you were waitlisted and the mentor had an existing relationship with the PD. < It sounds like OP's productivity during the research year may have been an issue the first cycle. Have any reapplicants overcome this same issue and matched? < No, but I've heard it can be a kiss of death on apps < What qualifies as an unproductive research year? Wondering if OP can comment on how many publications that gap year resulted in. < Not OP, but if you don't have significantly more research than 90% of applicants who didn't do a research year, you were underproductive. Research should be a strength on your application with multiple first author pubs and other middle author papers. Most of these should be in press, accepted, or actually published so that anyone reading your app is can read your work in the near future. Every applicant I have met that went unmatched after doing a research year in between 3rd and 4th year (4 applicants come to mind) had one thing in common; they were underproductive during their research year. < I had a productive research year, still went unmatched < Obviously you can also go unmatched in spite of a productive year for other reasons, but having an unproductive research year will definitely contribute to not matching< i did a research year and got lots of pubs, but i think the reason for my success was more about my research mentor writing a LOR than my actual output < Do you think that LOR would still be effective if you were underproductive? < Yes (not OP). Mentor can speak to your personal qualities, work ethic etc after spending large amounts of time with you even if your CV isnt super padded. I did a research year, didn't get many pubs published by ERAS cutoff (had a bunch submitted, later accepted), but got a great letter, had a decent number of interviews and matched. I know someone else who did a research year that was mainly basic science and for technical reasons also didn't wind up publishing much by application. They matched as well. So LOR will go a long way. < Congrats on matching! Did you or your mentor have any direct relationship with the program you matched at?< OP here. did a research year between M3 and M4. my mentor was pretty well known in the field and i got about 5 pubs in press before the ERAS deadline (not a ton but probably "enough"). at least 10 different programs brought up the LOR from that mentor during interviews. after going through this process i'm 100% conviced that LOR is the most important factor in getting interviews and matching< it sounds like something didn't click with you and your mentor. Has this mentor supported other applicants?
Is it better to do a research year at a mid-tier school that will allow me to push out more pubs / get LORs from multiple ppl in diff depts, or at a high-tier school with less pubs/1 LOR? < I personally think strong LORs from big names are the key to getting noticed; # of pubs are nice too, but not necessarily everything. However, if you to a high-tier place and the big name you are getting a LOR from doesn't know you well and writes a generic letter, that definitely hurts <# of pubs is the metric your research year will be measured by. < I'd question why the decision is more pubs/better LOR at mid-tier vs few pubs/bad letters at high tier. If you do a research year anywhere, your publication productivity and ability to make connections/mentors/LOR is 100% on your work ethic. A "better" institution will also usually have more research opportunities. So I guess I'd say pick the place you feel you'll be the most productive and have the best application package, but don't sell yourself short and assume you can't get that anywhere. < Not quite sure why the OP sets up this dichotomy. < op here. These are my specific options and offers. The mid tier program i got accepted to has a track record for tons of pubs. The top tier doesn't. I would work in 1 lab with 1 PI, who is fairly new. < If the mid tier has a track record of helping reapplicants match, then go with the proven winner. The other is a gamble especially with new faculty (not sure how good a LOR will be with someone new). < really helpful. Thank you <+1 to proven winner, you only got one shot at this. <Get the pubs, build relationships. As a reapplicant, programs will be scruitinizing YOU more than where you did your research fellowship. You want to be able to talk about the pages added to your CV since going unmatched. It puts you in a good position to say you were productive. Go to the program that will let you do this and don't put much stock in prestige. Also, consider that a good % of research fellows go on to match where they do research. Build rapport and impress the program so they will fight to keep you. Either way, you will have good letters when you reapply. Reapplicants have an uphill battle to match bc every program is looking for a red flag. Your goal is to better yourself, prove that you will be a good resident, and have convince potential programs that you don't have red flags. Go to the program that will let you stand out in a good way. Speaking as a reapplicant that matched ENT. < Unfortunately, not all pubs are created equal, but quantity of pubs is an easier measure of your productivity than quality when considering reapplicants. < when triaging applications to the interview invite pile vs the waitlist pile, ALL published peer reviewed pubs are equal. nobody deciding on interviews is going to read the articles.< Anyone else feel like prestige was overvalued by applicants this cycle? < I think it depends. If you wanted to match back at your home prestigious program, certain schools took many of their home students and so you had a leg up. But some top programs didn't take many of their own, and those who were not able to match at home had a tough time, even if they came from a prestigious institution (see UCLA, Hopkins) < right? I'm sure he/she is an amazing applicant and I'll be working for him/her in the future but I was shocked that JHU took and FMG this year! I have never seen that before. +1 for diversity, -1 for brain brain < what's FMG? IMG? < Fellow applicant and USMD, but wanted to address the comment about Hopkins matching a IMG: if you look at the applicant's research output, it is beyond the charts, especially in vestibular research where Hopkins is a powerhouse. The applicant is also a gen surg prelim, and must have gotten solid clinical letters as well, I'm guessing. also in the same boat, will likely do an unpaid research year and can't decided between smaller program (where I have a better shot of matching) vs more prestigious program like MEEI. Could MEEI open doors from me? < Do you actually have two simultaneous offers? < yes < Go where you can be productive. That's hard to elucidate especially when the time between now and the next cycle is short. Your productivity is what matters most as a reapplicant. The successful reapplicant narrative is about what you did to better yourself. MEEI may make sense, but you could also end up being a small fish in a big pond that struggles to stand out in a good way. < great advice << Also remember like aways, a research year is a dual-edged sword. Doing a great job there can make inroads, but anything short of stellar will decrease your chances of interviewing/matching there. So don't assume you'll be able to coast to a residency spot wherever you choose to do your year. As always, your odds of matching a specific program is low. Better to concentrate on picking a researhc year that will set you up for getting many interview at other programs.<Reapplicant here. Can attest that I felt the same energy as aways. It felt that I was "always on" initially and still make sure I am the first into the office and the last out. That said, I made awesome relationships and had four faculty from across specialties reach out to WL programs because they had a connection. It was exhausting, but I matched which was worth it. < amazing congrats!
Impromptu non-scientific poll of reapplicants for my own curiosity. Reapplied after prelim and matched (+1), Reapplied after research year and matched (+3), Reapplied after prelim and unmatched (+1), Reapplied after research year and unmatched, Reapplied after delaying graduation and matched (+0)
Kinda annoyed to have gotten emails back on my thank yous saying "you were reviewed very highly and will fit in well here" and then not match at that program < biggest advice to M3s is trust no one and nothing that you're told < It's not "trust no one" as if these people are lying to you. It's just "don't put too much weight on this kind of communication." There were many exceptional applicants this year and being reviewed highly just means they really liked you, doesn't necessarily mean you were at the top of their rank list because they could have also really liked 10 other people higher than you. You can be ranked 11 and that's still ranked highly but for a program with 3 incoming interns some years they might drop to you, some years they might not. I understand being disappointed that you didn't match at your #1 but the saltiness at the people who are just trying to send you a nice response back without actually breaking any rules just seems petty. There are definitely exceptions with some RTM conversations being outright false but that's few and far between. Most of the time it's just people reading into a nice email as more than it is. Like if you go on a date and your date says "thanks I enjoyed that date" but doesn't want to go on a second date with you that's not lying. < This is why I think we should just ban RTM communication and thank you notes. Life after interviews would be a lot less confusing and the etiquette of the process would be clearly defined. < there were sooooo many posts here telling people to not give RTM comms any weight. its not like the message was being hidden. < True. It's not like these RTM's are the reason people didn't match. Applicants are just bitter that the messaging didn't align with the reality.
its only monday after match week and i already go 2 surveys, everyone leave me alone please
Should I ask to go to AHNS from my new residency program if I just have a poster there? Or is that more for podiums? < I emailed my PC about this right away. Luckily its in the city I will be training in so I wouldn't have to travel but didn't want to accept without asking < Ask for their policy regarding presenting at conferences and then decide whether to ask. Each dept. is different. ask soon....if they put you on another service in October they may not have much choice. see ifyou can get on Rads or Gas in October and nobody will miss you.
anyone getting otomatch homesick? not as much to do on here anymore...
I remember some current PGY-1s (organized by Claudia at UVA Oto) did a really helpful Zoom session last year for the MS3s about applying. Anyone interested in doing something like that again this year together? <not really, what would we tell them? how to zoom interview? we didnt even have aways < Honestly that would probbaly be helpful given how new the zoom interview experience and lack of aways is, and how this is the only applying class who's done it.. < Would be a good time to give them advice about ERAS, LORs, research, dual-applying, research fellowships, etc. Last year it was a Q&A format, which was helpful < i'm happy to help outM3 here, would love to tune into this. Seems like virtual interviews may be here to stay.
Someone messed up the Name and Shame tab and rearranged the names of the programs so they don't align with the comments anymore. I don't know how to fix it
Can a reapplicant who did a prelim year and matched successfully into ENT at their prelim institution talk about what they did to impress their home program? Obviously responsibilities change as you transition from away rotations/subinternships as a medical student to actually being an intern. As an intern rotating in an ENT department how do you stand out?Hey! I guess i fit the bill for that description. My honest advice is to show unwavering dedication to ENT. Let your PD know that is your goal and if they could let you rotate with them then thats great. Interspecialty talk is a real thing. They may just stick their necks out for you and let the ENT department/chair/PD know that they have a wonderful prelim who would be a great intern in their program. You stand out by being efficient and reliable. > Thanks for your response and congrats on matching!<thank you! Wish you the best of luck and work your experience as an intern into your interviews, it should be a large highlight!
anyone get the AHNS email? is it frowned upon to present at conferences during residency? < i think most residency programs love when their residents go to present at conferences and actually pay for you to go!< that's great to hear! i just feel bad if it puts more work on my co-residents so i wasn't sure how to approach it. especially becuase the conference requires you to be there for two weekdaysresidencies vary from making you pay your own way and take vacation time to present at a conference to paying for conference fees, xport, hotel & a meal per diem. most use the second policy for first author residents. but the first is a worst case. in that case, just use you vacay so none of your coresidents can complain. then apply for a resident travel grant. most conferences have these and they usually pay for hotel and airfare.
Could reapplicants who were successful this year post what routes they took? Prelim vs. delaying grad vs. fellowship? Thanks! +3
How would you guys describe the economy of the match? it's so weird. < what do you mean by economy<Available spots, where people get interviews, and where they ultimately end up. It's interesting that simply going to a top school doesn't guarantee you a match. And I'm saying that as someone who match from a low tier school < The way I think about it - there are two stages to the process. Interview invites & interview/match. There's a limited supply of spots with a high demand. As a result, each spot is "worth more" and applicants pay more to play. What I mean is applicants study/work harder for higher board scores and grades, they take extra years for research, they invest thousands of dollars to do away rotations. At the end of the day, you hope that your investment nets an interview invite. From there, each applicant has a limited amount of time to really WOW someone with their background, experience, and efforts. Like my PD always says - your scores, grades, research, etc. are just an invitation to the dance, whether you match is totally a product of how well you tango.<This puts it perfectly < I like this, because I think helps overcome feelings of imposter syndrome going into interviews with top tier programs, but I've heard that there are several approaches programs use to build a rank list. Some programs go into interviews with the applicants pre-ranked based on scoring of their application. The interview performance then adjusts this ranking and becomes a weighted portion of the existing application. Other programs use the application to offer interviews and then give you a blank slate going into interviews. At that point your interview performance determines where you rank. Obviously, the two aren't completely exclusive since the weighting of the interview in the first scenario would determine how much interview day works like a blank slate (interview day weight of 1.0 = blank slate going into interviews vs. interview day weight of 0.1 = interview is only a small component of your overall ranking). Finally, some residency programs build a rank list when the faculty all meet to discuss applicants. This discussion can have a huge impact on the ranking that goes beyond the interview day rubrics from each room.
what did unmatched applicants do if they cannt find a research fellowship. i've applied but they are all getting filled sooo fast. TIAI think you can do unnoficial ones < yes do an unpaid position < you can also possibly delay graduation and work with your home department more
How did UVa go this cycle? < do you mean Virginia?<yeah < they got some great people!! < I think they meant applicants from UVa... < woops! sorry misread that :/ I met a couple of the people they matched so I got excited < I thought they meant did UVA continue the trend of all male residents (which I understand may not be entirely their fault)What trend? It's like 50/50
Regarding the comments below: As a “low tier” student, first, I want to say - I understand this is an emotionally charged time. I am sure you worked hard, and I can see that you are upset. I also want to say that this type of mentality perpetuates the immovable “ivory tower” way of thinking in academia. We fought through to pursue our dreams with far less resources and connections available to us, and I am forever appreciative of programs that saw that as a strength. I wish you the best in your future, and I also promise to always advocate for students fighting these biases in academia - and encourage others to do the same. I encourage all MS3s reading this right now to believe in yourself, no matter what school you attend. Also, thank you to my amazing colleagues who are defending our worth right now (though they shouldn’t have to). +11If you really think this way, I'd ask you to maybe think about the advantages you had coming into this cycle that we didn't have as people from "lower-tier" schools. Fewer connections, opportunities to do research, etc. And if you still got outworked, that's on you, not us < It just goes to show that residency applicant selection is (obviously) based on each applicant's individual merits and not the school attached to their name. If someone from a no-name med school had better Step scores, grades, LOR and personal statement than you (and likelier a better charming personality to go with it) they obviously merit to match over you at the institution of their choice. Don't be bitter about not being able to coast off your institutional prestige for a job. < as someone at a "higher tier" med school who got there from a "low tier" undergrad, I can truly say that being at a higher tier place has numerous advantages. I am so grateful to have those advantages, and having come from a lower tier place, I know the kind of work it takes to earn a high tier position without those advantages. Even though I'm lucky enough to be at a prestigious institution now, it would make me incredibly sad if all the residency spots at institutions like mine were filled through nepotism. There are so many talented, hard working people at other institutions across the globe. They deserve a fair shot.< TBH, it's reassuring that jerks like that got screened out somewhere in the process. We don't need to perpetuate a "good 'ol boys club" in OTO. +2 < as someone who would have killed it in the good ol boys club, I fully agree.
< No offense against Cornell, but it was too good not to share. +4 lolz < yo not cool < is Cornell even good for ENT? <Cornel/Columbia in NYC yes! Cornell in Ithica, does not exist. < I posted this. No hate against Cornell here, but the poster discussed reminded me of Andy Bernard from the Office who jumps at every chance to name drop his Ivy League education.
I'm kinda surprised that a lot of the top applicants (e.g. people seen consistently at top 10 interviews) matched at home programs or lower tiers, anyone else? < well harvard/stanford etc had 50-75% of spots go to their home students, so it's not surprising that other people competing for those spots fell lower < FWIW, I interviewed at a bunch of top 10's, but ultimately ranked my program (top 30) above all of them b/c of location. Some people probably wanted to stay at home. Some likely did fall on their rank list. Others chose to go to other places for various different reasons. < Same, had 15 interviews, several top 10, ranked my home program +1 because that's also family home for me and also I'm too lazy to move LOL, super happy to match here and would not take a top 10 program over this.
anyone else from a top institution who wanted to stay bitter that people from very low ranked schools beat you out? i picked my school over another school for the name and it sucks that it didnt count for anything < not really. some of the nicest people i met on the trail were from places without a home program and i was rooting for them < tbh you sound like an ***hole. some of the most qualified people come from all over < of all the supposed "hot takes" and "unpopular opinions" on otomatch, OP's post is actually probably one of the hottest takes lol < lol this guy < And.....that attitude is probably why OP didn't match. Glad you aren't my co-resident. I don't think a prelim or research year can fix your problem. Good luck with life. +4 < "Top 40 med school" is just a heuristic for application review and means literally nothing when judging the caliber of an individual applicant. Do you honestly think you're better than other residency applicants at this stage of training just because your MCAT score or chemistry grades (or financial ability to attend a more expensive institution) got you into a better ranked med school? Get a life. < OP, this reflects more poorly on you than anything else. You had the school prestige, the opportunities, the resources, the connections, etc that many of us had to work hard to overcome. I'm sorry this match cycle didn't go (as) well for you but I think some introspection about what characteristics make someone a good ENT applicant, resident, and surgeon might be useful. < what a fun convo < The fact that people like this are such clear outliers compared to say the ortho spreadsheet makes me happy I'm in ENTDidn't realize the caliber of medical school made you more deserving/qualified +1 < Agree. just because someone is at a "lower ranked" school doesnt mean they are less qualified/a worse applicant, people have many different reasons for choosing the medical school they wanted to attend other than some arbitrary ranking system < I went to my lower tiered school because I can graduate with nearly zero debt < closer to family, closer to a SO, better for kids, more fun city, better weather, ect. i picked my med school cuz i had a grand old time <Lived at home and got a full-ride to my low-tier med school over other top 20 med schools. Not everyone chooses to go to these top-schools <lol at OP thinking that a higher ranked school means they are a better applicant. <wonder why he/she didn't match at their home program < it's the entitlement for me< Hey OP, perhaps the reason u didnt match as high as u thought u would is because the residents and attendings at all your interviews picked up on what a pompous cock u r :) -sincerely, a low-tiered student that matched at a top 10 < +6
When can we expect our first paycheck intern year? Trying to figure out housing (buying vs renting). < Probably July 1st at earliest < more like July 15th < FYI most places you can secure a physician mortgage- 0% down with proof of employment. Pretty unique and helpful for folks in your position with a job but $0 to their name for a down payment on a house.<If you can get a down payment sponsor, apparently interest rates are lower that way<depends on your program; our program allows you to choose to get your first paycheck somewhat early for deposts etc
Just a plug for those pursuing PSLF with your loans. If you have figured out that you want to pursue this route, I reccommend you begin a qualifing IDR plan as soon as you graduate. With the current federal loan deferrment the Dep. of Ed has ruled that the COVID related forbearance counts like $0 payments towards the required 120 payments for PSLF. If you are uncertain about what to do with your loans, check out the white coat investor podcast/website or find a financial planner that is familiar with high income/high debt professionals. Student Loan Planner also has a great podcast, but will also do schedule consultations to create a loan repayment plan. < your first year is going to be $0 anyway unless you made money during M4 year < OP here. A lot of people have reported income because the have partners and file taxes as married-filing-seperately (MFS). The current Covid payment deferrment applies to a wider swath of the population pursuing PSLF (regardless of your 2020 tax return income). I made my original post because many new residents choose to use the 6 months of administrative forbearance available for any new graduate; however, using the 6 month of forbearance available to new graduates doesn't count as qualified payments towards PSLF. With the current Covid forbearance, it makes sense for almost anyone pursuing PSLF to forgo the 6 month administrative forebearnace in favor of the Covid forbearance since you can get several qualifying payments towards the 120 required PSLF without paying a cent. The PSLF forbearance is set to expire on 9/30/21 so you will have to make your first payment sooner with this option than if you were using the 6 month graduation forbearance, but most doctors pursuing PSLF will want to begin accumulating qualified PSLF payments ASAP as a resident to make more qualified payments when your income is low as a resident rather than when these payments will be much greater as an attending.
So what are people actually doing to prepare for intern year? It's been forever since I was on ENT. Obviously taking a few weeks to travel, spend with fam, etc first but I feel like going into PGY1 year with my current level of knowledge will be a mess haha < I'm just ready to not be a med student and just be like "oh sorry yeah idk but you're stuck with me for 5 years so i promise i'll learn it" < come to the AAO-HNS event referenced below -- mostly fun things to follow and activities to check out aka DON"T STUDY!< would love to know how to prepare as well. I ranked (& matched) a top 40 program above the top 10 programs I interviewed at so I feel like I'll have to make up for the lack of program reputation when applying for fellowships.< calm down. you matched. one step at a time < O_O yikes to OP< resident here at a top tier program. there is little to be gained from preparation from a fund of knowledge standpoint. intern year is for learning how to doctor (how the hospital works, how to do orders, write notes, be efficent etc). And you will be bouncing around to different non-ENT rotations that will require different knowledge bases. Take the time this summer to relax, see friends and family, and do whatever makes you happy. Any preparation you want to do should focus on organizing your life (ie moving, buying a house, learning to mealprep, hashing out chores with your SO or putting aside money to hire a maid, join a gym) and organizing your resources (make sure you have access to the major ENT texts, thank your mentors, get a favorite pen). Once intern year starts, youre going to have less time/energy for extraneous things. <agree, also favorite pen is obvi the blue ultrafine 0.38 uniball
Can anyone from Philly tell me what places to absolutely avoid? < temple, jkjk! < lol. Philly gets relatively less safe as you fan out from Center City. West Philly has changed a lot over the years, but is still less safe once you get past ~42nd St. All of the Penn MBAs/JDs live in Fitler Square/Center City. A lot of medical students/residents live in Graduate Hospital. I personally wouldn't want to live anywhere south of Washington St (but YMMV). East of Center City is very nice, especially if you're going to Jeff. Washington Square, Old City, Northern Liberties, Fishtown are all really nice areas. Once you get over the bridge over the Camden (NJ), you'll want to be extra careful. North Philly gets dice-y as you make your way past Spring Garden towards Temple. I'd venture to say that most people agree that North Philly (Kensington, etc.) is probably the least safe part of the city. That's my very limited, quick take on the city!
Just curious, are you guys overall satisfied (+14) or overall disatisfied (+2) with your match? Fell on my list but still happy I think < I agree with the "I think" part. The only thing im dissatisfied with is locations (but I think that's more the thought of leaving my current city since I don't really even know the city I'm moving to). In terms of program itself the one I matched to was definitely #1 purely based on feel so i'm definitely leaning into the "everything works out the way it should" vibes < thanks! just nice to know we're having similar experiences < haha I feel like some of the top ENT programs are in places that don't top people's list of "top vacation spots in the world". there are a lot of hidden treasures among those cities and areas though!
was this year the highest number of applicants ever in the history of ENT? < yes < why didn't COVID cause a decrease in applicants? i feel like a lot of clinical rotations were cut short < Because COVID hit right at the beginning of the application cycle. Few people pulled out once they had already committed to applying ENT this year. < Some of the barriers to applying ENT were lowered. Programs were instructed to be more accepting of non-ENT LORs. Some applicants might have felt more inclined to apply than otherwise. <As much as this year was a blood bath, last year was too. people that took a research year trying to duck that bloodbath, landed in this one. < It's been a bloodbath for three years. The increase in applicants between 2018 and 2019 caught a lot of applicants off guard.
Possible dumb question but is there a collective repository for all ENT fellowships that exist somewhere or do you have to find them on an institution by institution basis? < 3 days after match day my dude, go have a drink! << lol believe me I am, just trying to find a way back home eventually :')< Headmirror has a good summary list of fellowships (not sure how up to date it's kept though). Otherwise, each society maintains their own list of fellowship by subspecialty
any pgy2 openings out there? asking for a reapplicant that didn't match again this year :(
Friendly reminder to fill out the '21 Match Results! Still missing a lot of entries. Excited to see where everyone ended up :)< it's so cool to see our friends from the trail fanned out across the country. so happy for everyone < yup, would love to meet up again at conferences +1 < congratulations everyone! :)
In case no one has told everyone yet... The Academy (AAO-HNS) Section for Residents and Fellows General Coucil and special guests is hosting an event for you all to welcome you and talk about next steps (mostly encouraging you to take time for yourselves!) Register here: Should be lots of fun. Feel free to post any question you have here or else in the registration form.This sounds very useful, but I won't be able to attend. Will a recording be made available? < yeah they usually record them < it usually is posted at a later date as an institutional youtube. I recommend emailing the contact from the AAOHNS to ask for the recording. Also! There will be a second session with tips for first year of residency, so hopefully you'll be able to make that one
So I feel like it's pretty clear that if you give up focus then you can likely have location (even in major cities) and pay. Is it just as guaranteed to get location if you give up pay instead? Aka can you still practice what you want wherever you want if you're willing to give up salary, and if so, how much of a pay cut is that usually? < Still 6 figures, you'll be able to eat < depends on whether youre talking about academics or PP. If you want to do PP you can literally live anywere you want and you will almost certainly be able to find a job. Academics is harder. You can theoretically ask for a lower salary to make yourself more marketable, but thats not commonly done and if a department doesnt need a forth otologist, then a lower salary is probabaly not enough of an incentive to hire you. < for the "literally anywhere you want" does this include if youre doing a sub like plastics, laryngology, rhinology etc in a big city? Or more for general?
Are we making a class of 2026 group or no? < what do you mean?<facebook group
How'd my other fellow homeless friends do this year? Any love for those without a home program. < 2/2 from our program, both at our #1's! < 0 for 2 < 1/3 < 3/3Our program went 3/4
Whoa, Arkansas matched 3/3 spots to home students? I thought I was reading their IG post wrong but looks like match results page confirms it.< there are a lot of schools like this. USC for example almost always take atleast 50% usually 75% home students. < I feel like a good rule of thumb would be ceiling(n/2). Have 1-2 spots? Up to 1 home student. 3-4 spots? Up to 2 home students. 5 spots? Up to 3 home.< Programs have no control over the match. see faculty comment=>Lol what was the point of interviewing? At least give us one spot < It seems like half the posts here are complaining that programs didn’t “take care of” their home students and the other half are complaining that they too many home students and tbh I don’t think either one is really fair to blame programs for. < I don't think it's too much to ask for a happy medium. Match at least 1-2 home students if you actually like them/want to protect your own, while matching 1-2 outsiders to show you're actually interested in the folks you interview.< Most programs may end up with 25-40% home students on average. To get a better idea, look at all their current residents and see how many are home students. This is an off year with covid and the lack of aways and in-person interviews. Applicants are probably ranking home programs high, so this year is likely going to be way higher than average at most programs. Faculty comment: The match is geared to applicant’s preference so programs cannot reserve or save spots for home or away students. There is no way to game the match. A program of 3 could rank home students 1, 5, 7. They could get all 3 or the #1 could decide to go elsewhere and they get 2,3,4, and end up with no home students. On the opposite side, they could rank all away students in the top 10, but they all rank the program low and the program could end up with no away students and end up with home students that were ranked 12, 15, and 20. Just as many of you have been disappointed in RTM letters, programs have been surprised year after year with students we rank #1 after they swear we are their #1 but yet they end up somewhere else. We never know were will will land on our rank list. You could rank home students 1, 10, and 20, every year and 1 year we would 1 home student , another year 2, another year 3 and another year 0. < I understand this but when a program says that they rank their home students high and many of us go unmatched, that leaves a bad taste in our mouths <programs saying they ranked their home students high is as accurate as people in the match results tab saying they matched at their #1 < I think the best practice would be for programs to inform home students---prior to interviews---whether they will be ranked to match if they know they will be likely be taking someone. At least then that student can then limit their number of interviews as they are guaranteed to at least match home. This allows for more interview offers at other programs for other students.
For the programs that had >8 students applying, how many ended up matching? My program has a TON of M3s interested for next cycle <please push them to dual apply. all of the applicants from my home program dual applied, and we all matched ent but we would all dual apply again if we had to go back< What did they all dual apply in?? < my program went 6/6 and none of us dual applied but you have to have good guidance and to be really honest with yourself about chances of matchingWayne State had 4/7 match < how did hopkins and sinai do? i heard they had a lot of home applicants <mine went 4/5 < ours was 3/5 < Mine was 4/5 < GW went 6/6 < Case was 4/8 < My program went 6/7. The person who didn't match ENT ended up not ranking any ENT positions, their back-up specialty ended up becoming their primary specialty as the cycle went on. < Did their backup become their primary because of lack of interviews or because they realized they preferred the backup specialty? < Both. They hadn't received a ton of ENT interviews, but doing ENT with their # of interviews was still in the cards. They had top tier interviews in their back-up specialty and all the programs really expressed a strong interest in trying to get them to come to their program so they ended up just feeling more wanted in their back-up specialty vs. fighting tooth and nail to convince ENT <2/6 low/mid tier school < Hopkins was 7/10. We are still discussing how this could have happened. < i think hopkins was a tough sell this year with only 2 clinical tracks available < surprising that only 1/4 who matched at Hopkins were home students...Stanford seemed to really try to protect their own by taking 3/5 < Sinai went 9/11 < UCLA went 2/4 < Northwestern went 2/4 < i guess med school prestige matters less than we thought < how did columbia and cornell do with their combined 11 students for 1 home program? < wow UCLA took 0 home students and 2 of their home students went unmatched < 3/3 at a tiny program <UChicago went 6/6 < Maryland went 5/6 < 4/4 at midtier< Stony brook went 3/3 based on the match result tab < Yale went 3/3 < Harvard was 5/5 < UW went 4/8 < Pitt went 3/5 < damn < Cornell 3/5, Columbia 4/6 < Miami 4/5 < Penn 6/7 < DAMN, THESE NUMBERS < Programs with a 100% match rate, or close to it, all took at least some home students. Really shows who supports their students. In a year of covid, with no aways, this would be normal if a program supports their students. < I don't think you can say these programs don't support their students. Programs have to balance how many home students match there vs. outside students. Too few students and peole complain that the program isn't supportive of home students. Too many and they look like they don't give outside applicants a fair chance.< to play devils advocate, my program took a home student but most of us were still left to fend for ourselves < OUWB went 3/4 <I'm more curious about the programs that had a high match rate with few home applicants matching at home. What's going on that make these applicants match outside in such a competitive cycle? < what are the programs? < GW < as someone who came from a program with a high match/few home matches and matched outside, I just have to say that our year had the most competitive home applicants the program has seen in years. each of us was probably a stronger applicant than any applicant in the previous 3-4 years. < Agreed, to match outside of your home program in such a competitive year speaks to your grit and drive. < What happened with UW students? Kind of surprised by that one. < So many people on here & in other specialties talking about how they fell to their home program and I'm over here thrilled because home was #1 so friendly reminder that some of us wanted to stay and didn't only end up there because we couldn't match elsewhere < Sinai seems to have screwed over their home students, especially by taking fewer than last year even though they had almost double the number of home applicants. I met so many of them on the trail and they were all awesome tbhWith reapplicants and COVID setbacks, should we expect an even bigger applicant pool for next year?? < yes < if the OPDO doesn't put up hurdles to cut down on the number of applicants, expect it to go up due to people who took a COVID/research year.< as usual it will be impossible to predict. plan for the worst but hope for the best
W regards to post below, I'm not sure if this only applies to top/top-mid tier residency programs, but I had this same worry and basically was told that no one will have all three of location, pay, doing exactly what you wanna do. If you're willing to sacrifice one of those things (and very few ever attain all three) then you can essentially practice wherever you want, even in a city like NYC (bigger cities you may have to give up more like settle on practicing general ENT in a private practice - which is underrated IMO). Can another resident or fellow confirm? But anyway ENT is so connection based, sure institutions that practice a little more nepotism than others may be harder to penetrate, but if it's truly location that matters most to you then private practice is always an option, either starting your own or general < Attending here. I can confirm that the triangle of location-pay-focus is true for almost any location in the US. I would add that the number of patients you see and scope per week has a big influence on pay. In general practice, you will make roughly $2,000/year for every patient you see per week. If you do research NIH salary caps are $200k/year for full time research.Anyone else hear the same as this? Certainly hope it's the case and does make sense. It's funny how blind we are (speaking for myself) to how life beyond residency is determined
I hear that wher eyou match for residency really determines your options as far as where you can practice as an attending. Does that mean if i'm moving cross country for residency, I'll have a hard time coming back home? I'll be honest i was surprised to match at a program so low on my rank list, and its taking me very very far away from where I want to be. I'm scared and feel alone to be completely honest < I think this is hard to answer without knowing where you matched and what the previous fellowship matches are.< ENT is one of the biggest national shortages lol, you'll be fine wherever you wanna go <residency location is the biggest predictor of practice location overall in medicine, but ENT is a special animal. You can go wherever you want, and be in the 1% as an ENT. < including big cities? < Yep residents from everywhere go everywhere for fellowship and jobs. Some stay in the same place because they like it/had a reason to want to be there for residency in the first place (family/job/etc) but once you've crossed the threshold to residency you can pretty much do whatever you want. Academics and PP everywhere are always hiringI'm sorry to hear that you are moving so far from where you want to be. I think that you will be surprised with the ENT family that you'll have at your residency program. If you want to move back I think you just have to be a bit concerted about maintaining contacts from your home institution, networking, etc. I don't think anything is out of the picture even if things seem hard right now. I think you'll get a lot of support where you end up and as you progress into your senior years I hope that they can be supportive of your plans! I don't know how close you are with your co-applicants from your med school, but I know that I would personally love to stay in touch with my co-applicants and be supportive if anyone was in this position. My hope and suspicion is that you will be less lonely than you think you will be! < OP, thank you. I know you're right. Just a lot to process now. I know i'm going to be trained really well. And i'm gonna be a f***ing ENT. A lot to celebrate.To try and make anyone in this situation feel better, I was very disappointed with the location I matched last year and came to find out that 1) the location wasn't as bad as I thought 2) I love my co-residents so much and 3) am not sure if anywhere else would have been a better fit for me! Easier said retrospectively but the match works in mysterious ways :)
What schools didn't match any home students? < NW and Case so far based on the Match Results tab < Wisconsin < a lot of programs don't < Davis didn't match any home students < case matched a Psuedo home student given the complicated relationship between the University and College programs of the med school < LSU-Shreveport, Florida, Cincinnati < Mayo Rochester < Maryland < Virginia < Utah< UTSW < Penn State < Emory < NW had one home student that was RTM< Whoa, some of these typically match a large percentage of home students. It's surprising to see some of these reverse the trend. < I feel like not matching home students only matters if their home students went unmatched
can you swap residency programs with another PGY-1 ( for pgy-2). If you have family reasons etc.... < no you can't. you can drop the spot (and not be able to Match for another year) but cannot swapIf you matched ENT, you can try posting a proposed swap (same PGY year) on the Original Otomatch Forum under Vacant Residency Position and/or on Just FYI these are very rare in ENT. Both residents and both programs have to agree to the swap. The chance of a PGY-1 swapping for a PGY-2 spot is zero. This breaks too many rules to get exeptions. ---samWon't this reflect poorly on a candidate? Like if a program sees that one of their interns has posted that he/she wants to vacate their spot?
Does anyone know if the big ENT social media "influencers" matched?< There are ENT influencers? lol < I know of one who i don't think matched < i know of a couple who didn't match. even though i find their social media cringeworthy i still feel bad for anyone who didn't match. nobody deserves that < i know a few that matched < it's nice to follow their journey. I feel like no one shares this difficult path enough. < +3 < I love their transparency. I was too scared to even share I was shooting for ent bc didn't think i'd match. Good on them most of them are so full of themselves lmao < Define "influencer"--like actively pitching products, or just anyone who writes Aspiring _____ in their bio? > no i think people are talking about social media influencers who have sponsors and have 10K+ followers on IG < i think of people who dramatize and exagerate the role of the medical student using IG like posting lots of pictures in scrubs, bragging about "doing surgery," etc. < Whats IG mean?< instagramIs there a list anywhere of ENT influencers? Are they on twitter on insta? < Why are you all hating so hard? worry about your damn selves (I have a very shitty social media presence) < Would also like to know the list, bc I actually may follow them. I think it takes a lot of courage to be so transparent, so long as not every post is sponsored. The few influencers that are in my feed were all so secretive that they didn't reveal intended specialty until match day