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Data Captured at 800pm SGT, 9 Oct 2013
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Data Source:No. of Comments:
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On National Service: http://alvinology.com/2013/10/07/on-national-service/72
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On Alex Liang: http://alvinology.com/2013/10/04/on-alex-liang-a-singaporean-who-gave-up-his-singapore-citizenship/343
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Total415
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Coding:
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CommentSlammed NSSlammed BloggerAmbivalent Irrelevant
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janice says:
October 4, 2013 at 11:29 pm (Edit)
I don’t think MINDEF and SAF should responsible for your migration — on the broader perspective, blame it on other countries instead?

1. Why are the other countries so much bigger than us? Why are they so much stronger than us? — This would constitute why we need almost half the Singaporean population to serve army for more than a quarter of their lives.

2. Why is Singapore so well-situated in a location without natural disasters? Why is Singapore so strategically located that so many ships want to stopover here?
– This would constitute why so many countries are always, at every minute and every second, want to takeover this piece of land to boost their imports and exports. Besides, without natural disasters, this would be a haven for any country to build its city in. At the current state when Singapore has developed to such a hub, you think the other countries are contented with watching us grow? Once our defense is down, look who’s gonna arrive and take our homeland away first.

With these in mind, Singapore cannot stop boosting its defence capabilities, just to keep on par with other countries and protect ourselves and our families and friends. While I am not a die-hard PAP/government fan, I fully agree with the decision to make NS compulsory.

Would you rather cut your hair every year, or would you rather succumb your family and friends to foreign invasions?

Would you rather have MINDEF dictate your life, or let a big power dictate the lives of all Singaporeans?

I’m sure your knowledge of our history with Malaysia, the UK and Japan should be enough to discern what your priorities should be. Well, you can always choose to escape.. to the lands of those who are vying your position and vacancy in this country.		1
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FT Dua Kee says:
October 5, 2013 at 12:13 am (Edit)
@janice. MINDEF IB spotted. Stop sprouting bullshit about national defense lah. If so important, ask FTs and women to serve too loh….. why only pick on sg males? Why must a small group of sg born males make all the sacrifices when in the future majority of our population will be foreigners who did not and won’t have to serve NS. Why? Fair or not?		1
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Alvinology says:
October 5, 2013 at 12:20 am (Edit)
Janice: By your name, I am assuming you are a female? I think you are right about compulsory NS and how important it is to Singapore. In fact, we should go further an propose that everyone living in Singapore should have a part to play to protect our vulnerable country. Why just let a small portion of Singapore born male enjoy the honour of serving NS and doing reservist for a quarter of their lives? Following your logic, we should extend this wonderful privilege to all women in Singapore as well as all foreigners who want to come and live and work here. It is so important right? Everyone should part his or her part. It is only fair. You should be the first one to volunteer for this. :)		1
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rytt says:
October 5, 2013 at 3:16 am (Edit)
I think the thing most guys have with NS is less of having to actually do it, but rather the inequality of it all – the flood of foreigners being let in and given a free ride on home ground without contributing to this cost of national defence borne by male Singaporeans.

Once upon a time, when the domestic labour market was protected for locals, at least all the guys started out on an equal footing (well, exclude the occasional politician’s son who managed to end up in a NS vocation which was actually related to his real world job later in life). People grumbled about NS but I think nobody got really angry about it. These days, when any Tom Dick and Harry is let in to compete in the domestic labour market, and male Singaporeans are effectively handicapped – first by the 2/2.5 years spent in full time NS and then thereafter by the annual ICTs.		1
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Shaun Nico says:
October 5, 2013 at 4:17 am (Edit)
God forbids, should there be a war or an invasion but to put the whole “NS” dialogue in prospective; Will Singaporeans be ready to fight & defend their country ???. I don’t think so, unless their maids are with them to assist. Honestly, in this day & age the concept of warfare is all based on “forward intelligence” and combat is ” Engaging the enemy without seeing the enemy in the eye” . Singapore has to adopt a “pre-empt” combative system, an offensive methodology rather then a defensive system. The dense build up terrain of Singapore will not cope with the carnage should e.g.; bombs be dropped on her.

2 years ago, while visiting Singapore, I was invited to a passing out parade & after seeing the ludicrous amusement, I told myself, “these lot will never be able to exercise what military expects of them”. I draw a conclusion that Singaporeans will never be physically nor psychologically competent to engage in any conflict.

Will foreigners defend Singapore, even “if” NS is introduced, I don’t think so.
I served the NS, my father was an expat and I was born in Singapore, so I got conscripted. This was 40 years ago & even at that time, NS was just a big boys scout camp, nobody has a sense of “civic pride”, we got away with total mischief, just awaiting the 21/2 years to time out.

Nowadays, with information on your fingertips, & a lot of Singaporeans having properties in foreign countries, there will be a mass exodus, should ill befall.

However in clear thoughts, Singapore is a business hub, not a warring state, she is secular and has aligned herself with the mights of US, CHINA & RUSSIA. Singapore’s foreign policy is tranquillize in all general aspects and therefore she will be always safe from conflict. The only conflict that will eventuate will be “Home Grown”, a revolt, perhaps a political unrest or Home Grown Terror. The un-vetted influx of foreigners will pose a threat someday, foreigners are vocal, independent in their thoughts and have an “Objective Mind” as supposed to Singaporeans who are very “Subjective” in their approach due to the indoctrination by the ruling government.
Im my view, I believe that local Singaporeans can & could be easily influenced by these foreigners to act in ways which may well constitute a detriment to people & property of Singapore.		1
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CSM Lee says:
October 5, 2013 at 10:57 am (Edit)
Thanks for expressing in words what I feel. I got really angry reading this and thinking about how unfair the whole system is. Yes we complain and grumble when serving full time NS but we still all finish it. The real anger is when we join workforce which is not level field for everyone. We are two years behind plus handicapped with endless ICT and RT. It is the unfairness of the whole thing that make us angry.		1
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Lee NF says:
October 5, 2013 at 1:42 pm (Edit)
This is so sad. I am 34 this year and still serving reservist. I feel you bro. I also can’t pass ippt and doing rt now. 20 sessions! if i can pass why would i not want to? i have a family with two young kids and working in a demanding sales job that require me to work a lot of OT to chase numbers to feed my family. Last year i miss some of the rt and got charged. No compassion showed despite me explaining my circumstances and how difficult and demanding it is for us to meet reservist and rt callups in current economic situation. my foreigner and female colleagues don’t have to worry about all these unfair disruptions. I am really up to my neck with the torture from saf. my wife and female boss also don’t understand. keep nagging on why i so beh kan keep having to go back camp. life as a singapore born male stinks!

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melbyfool says:
October 5, 2013 at 4:25 pm (Edit)
The main reason he left was because he is gay.		1
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janice says:
October 5, 2013 at 5:48 pm (Edit)
Yes, I think everyone has a part in national defence. I’ve been participating in such initiatives too, but like you, my health isn’t in the best condition to allow my participation in the army. Nonetheless, I do so agree with you that guys should not be the only one responsible for our country. :)

And yes, I lament the lag of the same criteria for foreign immigrants. I strongly believe that new immigrants should go through any as well. If not, why take up a citizenship when you’re not committed to being loyal?

But I still think that this shouldn’t discount the fact that protecting Singapore is the way to go. And leaving the country, is just a weak way of escaping the responsibility.		1
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Leonard says:
October 5, 2013 at 5:52 pm (Edit)
@FT Dua Kee: Since ancient times during warfare, it has been men who have been fighting wars. Could be due to natural physiological advantage, and also to protect women who are the ones able to reproduce and ensure survival of the race and species. I would not ask FT to do NS as they will then have knowledge of our defense systems.

@CSM Lee: Agree with you on the unfairness. However I guess we are paid more in comparison when working outside.

@rytt: We men have ICT, women have maternity that puts them back on path of promotion also. Take it easy..		1
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FT Dua Kee says:
October 5, 2013 at 7:54 pm (Edit)
@Leonard Another SAF IB spotted. Your logics are all pathetically flawed.

1. Women’s duties to reproduce only? Thanks for bringing us backward to ancient civilization.
2. FT should not serve NS because they will have knowledge of our defense systems? Then you either tax them heavily or pay the Singapore men a fairer wage to level the playing field.
3. Singaporeans men paid more in the working world? Seriously get your facts right before sprouting such bullshit. What about the two years of vacuum wasted serving?
4. Women put back by maternity? What about the dua kee MALE FTs?		1
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janice says:
October 5, 2013 at 9:31 pm (Edit)
@FT Dua Kee: So maybe you think it’s very fair and definitely impartial to conclude that every person who does not agree with you, is a MINDEF IB? Hahaha talking about “pathetically flawed logics”. #justsaying		1
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John Ng says:
October 5, 2013 at 9:41 pm (Edit)
While acknowledging that there is more to be done by the government to close the gap between our Singaporean NS-serving men and foreigners, Singaporeans should really start seeing a need to doing their part for the country that has seen to a safe and conducive environment for their upbringing till conscription age (variable to each individual). The current legislation may not be perfect but the idea behind it is important. It is normal and human to be disgruntled with the unfairness and unhappiness of the situation, but it is important to recognize that NS is necessary due to Singapore’s geographical location etc. etc. And when there is such a need, there will always have to be men who step up and make a sacrifice. And at the end of the day, if you see no convincing reason for the need to serve, then at least do it for your family and loved ones residing in Singapore. You can always leave Singapore after your 2 years of compulsory service, if that is a strong enough incentive to immigrate.		1
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Keng Kiat 敬傑 says:
October 5, 2013 at 10:00 pm (Edit)
I have the same frustrations too, having to manage my work and my family. 10 IPTs then 8 RTs. I have never passed NAPFA and IPPT, not that I do not want to pass them. I just can’t pass, even when I trained hard during my NS years. What makes them think that when I can’t pass IPPT in my prime, I will be able to pass it when I am over 30 years old?? A waste of time!! Many times I considered migrating too but I am just an ordinary person. :(		1
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E says:
October 5, 2013 at 10:02 pm (Edit)
Just from another perspective, Singapore is a small country and i feel that NS should be made compulsory. Even the men in NS have different benefits; I heard from some of my NS friends if you declare you’re gay or something you won’t need to go to the fields? Anyway, the point is, just treat it as an exercise, even though its rigorous and all. Think about all the athletes, they have a positive mindset. Even so, I have to agree with the post up there that Singapore is being really unfair to its citizens. Singapore keeps taking in foreign talents, but how many of them are actually “talents” that Singapore need, that can actually make noticeable contributions to our society? And how many of this “talents” are just here so that they can take away so much more benefits that the Singapore government offers to them instead of its own citizens?

Talk about equality but I think that’s just ridiculous. If they are really talents, benefits can be given according to the talents they have. The government may have implemented policies to stop this trend now but isn’t it a little too late? Besides, if they want equality, why not let majority of the foreign talent men to serve NS too, if they are planning to stay in the long-term, I don’t see how being a “talent” refuse their bodies on the physical sector. If they are so talented as they claim, prove it that they can even do NS too instead of just blabbering.		1
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John Ng says:
October 5, 2013 at 10:15 pm (Edit)
It is not economically viable to make foreigners serve NS in the same capacity as our citizens do. After all, they do not even a remote incentive to do so, and would only serve to dampen our country’s appeal as an investment hub. There should be other ways to make foreigners ‘serve’ or to ‘penalize’ foreigners who would like to be citizens but not serve NS, but the solution seems to be quite elusive to the ministers and other officials at the moment. But making foreigners, ‘ruff and tuff’ it out with our boys, while being a popular decision, makes no economic sense and may spell certain doom to our economy.		1
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ilverelf says:
October 5, 2013 at 10:37 pm (Edit)
Hey Alvin, when I read your original article, I was actually upset that you felt that NS discriminates against SG males (although I know that is the prevailing feeling in SG) and the various other gripes (which I have to say really depends on each person and is therefore subjective) which seemed to me that you place personal comfort over national issues.

Your later clarification in your first comment to Janice leads me to conclude that it is mainly the current perceived inequality with some people having to sacrifice to defend the rest who do not, and it is compounded by the feeling that alot of those who do not serve, parachute into the system for benefits.

Am I reading you right?		1
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Guy says:
October 5, 2013 at 10:42 pm (Edit)
@janice

don’t be a hypocrite. Stop carrying balls here. You’ve not served and will never need to. Initiatives which you participate doesn’t come close to what guys goes through during NS and much worst, their reservist throughout till 40s or even worst 50s (for officers). And I even doubt you’ve any idea at all what guys have to sacrifice 2/3 of their average lifespan just for this conscription.		1
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Vincent says:
October 5, 2013 at 10:43 pm (Edit)
@Leonard Woman have maternity??HAHA how about those that doesnt wan to get married or doesnt wan to have children??then WHAT maternity they have???nowadays MAJORITY of the woman are workaholics or those that doesnt wan to get married pls..and maybe the govt should implement a rule that male foreigners staying for a fixed duration HAVE to serve NS as well so that they will be equality what…

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Guy says:
October 5, 2013 at 11:05 pm (Edit)
Serving ns is fine, but the pay is pathetic and i could have use the 2 years to earn money for my education. With the pathetic pay, after i ord, i barely have half of my fees for education. Really pathetic.		1
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janice says:
October 5, 2013 at 11:21 pm (Edit)
@Guy From the perspective of a woman in general, I don’t think I should face your insults such as “carrying balls” nor “hypocrite”.

Yes. I admit that none of my initiative can ever be compared. My husband is also failing every year’s IPPT, and I feel very bad that I cannot ever share these woes of his. Am I a hypocrite like this?

Everyone’s entitled to their comments, and I do so welcome constructive arguments. Alvin, @Shaun Nico, @rytt and @silverelf are very good examples. By having constructive discussions, I got to learn what Alvin is more concerned about — which turns out to be what I’m concerned about as well.

And now, while talking about how guys are being “picked on”, please take a mirror and look at what you have commented. How about me, as a girl, being “picked on” by you as well, just because I did not go through the same ordeal? Being called a “hypocrite” that “carries balls” — do you tell off your wife, your girlfriend, or your mom in such a way? I am greatly disappointed, and I hope this does not happen to the people in your life. =)		1
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R. Endo. says:
October 5, 2013 at 11:29 pm (Edit)
Bravo. I only served National Service cause I was born in Singapore and held a Singapore passport. My parents are Japanese, and I was brought up in Japan. I didn’t know what the hell I was doing serving the army in Singapore. Well, I’ve finished the army and am completing my University in England (sucks when half the class is younger than you), and am in the process of getting Japanese citizenship again.

Singapore is a fun place to visit, but not a fun place to live in.		1
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cbdogurmotherdie says:
October 6, 2013 at 12:00 am (Edit)
aiya girls talk so much go serve NS lo chao chee bye.		1
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John says:
October 6, 2013 at 12:05 am (Edit)
Serving NS is fine but i think a better treatment should be given to Singapore to offset this issue. Everything is fine IPPT, ICT etc…to me, i will do anything for my country but first to make your citizen do all these, you(GOV) first must them feel worth it. i want to protect my country that is worth protecting. I am doing it for law now (most SG too) and not patriot from my heart. I am already at “war” with FT and competing with FT in order to “survive”. My children face these issues too in future.. my generations after generation.		1
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freakofnatur says:
October 6, 2013 at 12:08 am (Edit)
It looks like Singapore is a place of more questions than answers. Living in the system and going for constant RT, even as a young person, I can feel the meaninglessness of RT. If people really wanted to keep fit, it is their own prerogative. Instead of baiting people with 100, 200 dollars, make it so that the monetary rewards is something the govt. wants you to have. Even if you fail IPPT, SAF should still give you 200 dollars in terms of gym credit. Since SAF wants a fit lifestyle for you, they should do more realistic things that are geared towards accommodating Singaporeans instead of roping people in for “punishment”. If people going thru RT20 can pass IPPT by the end of RT20, then the system works. Right now it does not work at all because this is never the case. Personally I have to gym by my own initiative to pass what I failed.

NS becomes meaningless after ORD, and even more so in ICT. I doubt that a army of conscripts can save Singapore when faced with modern warfare. Limited training will not help.

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Kelvin says:
October 6, 2013 at 12:08 am (Edit)
I think ns is a joke la! When i went back to reservist, all the solider are like old man, do you really think we have the capability to go for war? and who the fug want take over singapore? no nature resources, one bomb everything bye bye, waste time attacking this stupid small island. face the fact. though i dun mind serving ns and reservist, but i hope our gov can better take care of us. We def but u treat us like shit. In-fact after i grad from uni, my salary is not even competitive with woman and FT. Sad but true. Once again, we dont mind serving and defense our nation. Just treat us fair.		1
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Bryan says:
October 6, 2013 at 12:18 am (Edit)
very brave of you to post this Alvin!

I think many “singaporean sons” feel the same way as you do.

my biggest gripe with it is how it has not been updated over the years. wars will not won by guerrilla fighting in the street. this is not 1940 for gods sake. it will be a war of technology, one bomb, a few planes and thats it. do we even have the technology to stop long range misfiles? detect stealth bombers? i doubt it lol.

i would cut the budget on all the unnecessary enslaved manpower and allocate it to defense / technological research. though thats not going to help much. you cant really catch up. at the end u might as well just have a strong ally and focus on your economy, so they want to be your strong ally.

and you don’t need all Singaporean males to defend it. its a huge consumption and misallocation of resources. from an economic perspective its a complete tragedy.

and then the rationale, “defending our family/homes”.

say our country really gets invaded old school way. we will be at the front defending all the indians and chinese immigrants? Or would we rather stay and defend our families till our last breath. singaporeans and brained washed pretty hard to the extent of agreeing with illogical sentiments.		1
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fscfirdaus says:
October 6, 2013 at 12:35 am (Edit)
Reblogged this on Stories of Muhammad Firdaus.		1
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hehehaha says:
October 6, 2013 at 12:41 am (Edit)
has MINDEF ever fought a war? no?
doesn’t that mean then, that all that effort constitutes to NOTHING? we’ve been paying millions of dollars with NOTHING to show for.

its really laughable when people are so proud that they’ve served the nation, like as if because of them we’ve progressed as a nation. for all of you who’ve sweat, gave blood and/or tears, what is the end result of all your efforts?

NOTHING!
so why work so hard for? work also at the end of the day produce nothing, don’t work also produce nothing. might as well be smart and just do nothing eh?		1
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JY says:
October 6, 2013 at 12:57 am (Edit)
When we talk about National Service, it does not have to be of combat nature. When we talk about equality in our country, I strongly believe that women can play a part in national service as well. They can be attached to the healthcare sectors (such as nurse), or even non-profit organisation to learn skills that could be vital in the event of emergency. Just imagine that women have been attached to hospitals for training as nurse during their NS days. They learnt important skills such as CPR or bandaging skills etc. When they happened to see someone injured or in danger during peace time, they can immediately help instead of waiting for the ambulance to come.

In this small country, everyone is important, regardless of gender. We build Singapore and we Protect it for generations to come. So everyone (Males and females. Not just males) should be involved with National service. #justmyopinion		1
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Alvinology says:
October 6, 2013 at 1:04 am (Edit)
@silverelf

You are right to point out that much of my displeasure stems from the unfairness of the whole NS/ICT/IPPT/RT/IPT system.

However, I won’t say I was not thinking of my own personal comfort and interest as well. What is wrong with that? Nation before self? Come on… let’s get real.

If you found a loaf of bread during a famine and you know your wife and son as well as the soldiers defending your land are starving to death, would you give the bread to the soldiers because you believe in nation before self? Let yourself, your wife and son starve to death because the nation is more important? Seriously?

I can be altruistic and giving up to a certain level. At some stage, you have to fend for yourself, your family and your loved ones. Unless you are an extraordinary martyr of sort like Mother Teresa or Nelson Mandela, which I am not.

Even our Ministers justified their high salaries with the same self-serving logic. Why can’t I do the same as an ordinary Singaporean?

I do not blame foreigners for coming in and compete with us for jobs. In fact, I applaud and respect them for having the courage to seize the opportunity when they see it. Everyone is in search of a better life (or “own personal self comfort” in your words) and if I were in their shoes, I would have done the same. Our government policies allow it to be this way.

I blame our system, not the people.		1
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Rubbish Eat Rubbish Grow says:
October 6, 2013 at 1:13 am (Edit)
I feel you. Years after serving NS, I wake up in cold sweat of nightmares, dreaming that I AWOL. My friends tell me they have the same nightmares. I don’t want the torture of reservist. I could have stayed on in New York where I was studying, but I came back because I love Singapore. I just wish they can stop calling me back for reservist. I already gave them the best of my 2.5 years of youth. What else do they want?		1
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Silverelf says:
October 6, 2013 at 1:15 am (Edit)
Totally, I also agree that the main issue is with the system because if I were in the position of the FTs, I would probably do the exact same thing if given a chance. Anyone who says they would rather give up a chance of better pay overseas either has strong ties to the family or they are lying.

To each their own, their views on various issues can hardly have one right answer.		1
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Alan Lau says:
October 6, 2013 at 1:24 am (Edit)
On reading comments from clowns like Janice …. she has certainly read history and by her argument, the useless women of Singapore should serve NS too.
if this is not done, then NS is a bias slavery system		1
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Leonard says:
October 6, 2013 at 1:33 am (Edit)
@Alan Lau: YA agree! Your mother grandmother sisters all should serve NS too.

I guess the angst is on the job opportunities and advancement opportunities by FT. This was and never should be about sg women vs men serving NS.

Just have to work harder.		1
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Brandon says:
October 6, 2013 at 1:33 am (Edit)
Alex Liang is a well known member in Sgboy gay forum (now known as Trevvy) by the nick of ecity. He’s gay.

Formerly from NJC, Alex is a former National Gymnastic champion.		1
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Brandon says:
October 6, 2013 at 1:37 am (Edit)
The real reason why Alex hates NS so much is because he fell in love with his straight platoon mate and touched him inappropriately. Alex then got into trouble with the military law because of that.

Now Alex is just being retributive.		1
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Wee says:
October 6, 2013 at 1:45 am (Edit)
Talk cok la government. Seriously I don’t mind to be in NS and protect country. Jibye country earn so much from casino,singapore pool , COE cars. Taxes gst and also as a famous shipping port. And also the land & flats at skyrocketed prices. Singapore is really very rich! But how much do we get when we serve NS? $400 to $900 . $50 combat pay. Why is such low pay given when we are tasked with such an honourable 2 years of protection to SINGAPORE? When our fellow FT and female singaporean are out in the civilisation getting well-paid and also trying to climb up and be promoted. GOVERNMENT SHOULD INCREASE THE NS PAY! AT LEAST 1.5k ~2k. ( which is the very minimum what we earn outside already )

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add says:
October 6, 2013 at 1:49 am (Edit)
Nothing is new here. What’s worst, either die during NS training or Missing rifle… I’m 17 and have not enlist into NS yet but i had heard all sorts of stories from my friends who have enlist into it. I agree with what most of you guys are thinking and how alex liang wrote about singapore government and NS. I know its a must for us to serve NS but I find it very unfair and a waste of time for singaporean guys to go back reservist after serving 2 years when we could all be doing the things we like be it continue studying, being full-time worker or whatsoever. Like i say above what’s worst, die during training or missing rifle. 1 Missing rifle and have to serve another 7 years in detention barrack. 7 years inside. No different from going jail right. 7 years is more than enough for singaporean guy to earn enough money be it whatever they want to do or start a family. I feel that the government here are really F*** up be it NS, work pay, taxes or whatsoever.		1
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NS is a waste of time says:
October 6, 2013 at 1:53 am (Edit)
WOMEN WHO WERE NEVER FORCED ARE BETTER OFF SHUTTING THEIR PIE-HOLE. IF YOU WERE EVER FORCED, YOU WILL NEVER KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE TREATED LIKE A BLOODY SLAVE.

NS is fcuking was de of time. All Singaporean males are disadvantaged:

- economically,
- financially,
- socially,
- educationally.

Moreover the stupid ICTs, recallation of ippt, shooting, courses, etc are a total waste of time and unfair to those who serve. While the foreigners and females can go about their normal life without all these added burdens, we are forced to sacrifice all these while. This is totally unfair and unjust.

If we fail our ippt, we have to waste 20 days and forced to go back for RT and waste even more time and bullshit. This Singapore gov think that they own us and they even want to dictate what we do. Forcing everyone to be fit is like dictating what position you must do when having sex.

seriously, Singapore makes, if u all want to change this, please speak out and do some action! We have no choice but to serve, and we are serverely disadvantaged.

Singapore is NOT

democratic; we were forced to serve,

Meritocracy; we are 2 years late, we lose out economically, financially, educationally, lack of experience.

We lose out. And for those that say I’m being selfish or only think of ourselve, of course. Who will think and take care of us then?

Fucking unfair		1
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DoItAndGo says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:01 am (Edit)
Sympathy and empathy means nothing, words of comfort are just words after all.

When the boys and men serving in the army join their voices against unfair treatment, we’re seen as bullies? Yet many people can join together to fight for the rights of homosexuals, women and anything except your NSFs and NSmen?

I call bullshit.

We suffer in silence because to open our mouths would be chargeable. The law prevents us from publicizing about our experiences when it ‘borders on slander’.

Combatants suffer that much more torment than their service-side counterparts. I’ve been in both, I should know the pains of both. We are all equal in the amount of mistreatment and suspicion that we receive. We don’t need your pity. That does no good at all.

Start asking the questions that we cannot ask.		1
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Janice so strong says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:02 am (Edit)
@janice if your body is weak. Keep your fingers off this comment. Maybe you shld start cutting your hair short and colour your hair black plus stop putting any make up as contribution for this “NS” thingy u mention on your post.
Hmmmm let’s see.

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recruit says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:07 am (Edit)
im a SGP born&bred chinese GUY, gotta take tis opportunity to compliment most of the comments made before me, even my younger brother who is in poly, is alr thinking about what SGP would be like for him in few yrs time, would he be able to afford a home, afford a WIFE,family, and what about his next generation, with high cost of living, stress lvl , so many FTs competing in the job sector, an mrt/bus seat, a rear-nice viewing seat at the cinemas,ETC.. would singapore still be singaporeans’ home in the years to come..??

and for ppl like janice to comment ”constructively” with baseless qualification in this topic is astounding,, never once served ns at all, never experience it, still can comment like u know how it feels. ur husband served before..?? then i think he has rights to comment. not you.

ns is already taking up the prime years of our youth, but its RT after ORD, that makes it even harder to accept. in other countries, its an honor to serve NS, down here, we have tons of women that are not proud of people who did/doing NS, or couldnt care less,..they ditch their BFs doing NS, female stompers that routinely target NS men, first ”they” treat us like boy scouts, then expects us to behave like ”soldiers/ guard of honor” then they ease their way into this post n comment threads being shared by like-minded man, whats next…. dayummmm its just a vicious cycle for SG MEN…		1
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PMET man says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:09 am (Edit)
Plain and simple. Look at Choice A and B below, which one will be replaced and be extinct first?
A) SG male 2.5 years sacrificed. 2.5 years less salary. => 2.5 years less economic usefulness, 2.5 years delay to start a viable family
B) FT male 2.5 years ahead => Settle down with a family 2.5 years earlier, 2.5 years more economic useful life		1
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Charles says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:14 am (Edit)
I may not really agree with what the government is doing in other areas, but I do support national service. Although it is really unfair for us singaporean males due to the 2 year lag we suffer and the many more years of re service, when war time comes, I am sure everyone will appreciate the fact that we have an army around to fight for ourselves.

As much as I hate to say this, SAF is still very much necessary. For those who want females to serve too, I have this to say: our birth rate is already so low. If women had to serve ns, who will give birth to our next generation? The government will resort to importing even more FTs to make up for the shortfall. Just my two cents.		1
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subha26 says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:15 am (Edit)
Janice, I will be enlisting next month. I would like to know if you support the pay scale of us NSmen during conscription?

Is the measly hundreds of dollars we earn a good indicator of the responsibilities you presume that we have? And, if I don’t want to be burdened with reservist, is it not my right to migrate? Is my life fated simply because I’m born Singaporean?		1
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MisterT says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:19 am (Edit)
I have served in the Singapore Armed Forces and will be steadfast in my assertion that it is a wayang force. It is merely for show. It is not capable of fending off a full scale war. This is not because the soldiers are incapable(which most of them are), but because Singapore does not have the land mass(area) to fight a war. There is a common belief in the SAF, if we are ever invaded by a foreign power, we will stand for a maximum of 3 days. This is assuming most of the reserve force shows up upon activation. After 3 days, Singapore will fall unless our dear ally the US comes to our aid. We all know how well the UK defended us in WWII so I am not going to bank on that. If there is a fire in our backyard, we will not be the first to assist our friend whose backyard is burning.

PS: Janice, you might want to think deeper before spreading propaganda that has been drilled into you from a young age. Serve to defend your family, your friends. Rubbish. Serve to wayang. This wayang is only good for people like you. Unfortunately, foreign powers are not run by people like you who would be deterred by wayang. If a foreign power wants to invade and take us, they will regardless of us having a massive wayang force or a tiny specialist army. We simply do not have the land area to sustain a total war.		1
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add says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:20 am (Edit)
I gotta agree with what @recruit is saying. If his younger brother is in poly and he has already starting thinking bout all these what about people like me who’s in ITE nitec first year? by the time i finish my poly and go into NS, i’m already 25 years old and I won’t even have the enough income to get a family/home/whatsoever even in late 30′s. How to survive in singapore like that? even now i have to look for part-time cause my family is poor and serving NS the pay they give is also very low. How you expect us as singaporean male to survive in a system where taxes and gst are high and poor is very poor and the rich is very rich.

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Ave says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:24 am (Edit)
THIS! THIS IS SO WHAT IM FEELING!!

On another note, women should also need to be called in for NS. Why picked on the males? Its our country and women here are always asking for equality, what equality is it if they do not have compulsory NS? You know 2 years is a very long time imo, you could do so much during that time like studying and building on your career instead of wasting time on somethings thats not gonna even help you have a better life.

1
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sktoh says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:36 am (Edit)
Hi everyone, ask yourself this questions before commenting:
Is Singapore SAFE? How many people live on street? Why don’t ask a stranger to use your computer?

If you able to answer this question and still live with it. Please migrate :)

See the correct exit please.		1
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sktoh says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:38 am (Edit)
And also one more Why the toilet need to have male and female? why not just “ANY”?		1
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Voice of people says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:40 am (Edit)
Women put back by maternity means its fair to make it compulsory for all sg males to serve NS? Can you use your brain or get a reality check if all the sg females are really being put back by responsibilities of child birth. If they are then, YES, its compulsory for sg males to serve. People that didn’t really experience what we are going through please do not act as if you are all that and start to help with wasting our life in slavery.		1
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xtra09 says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:40 am (Edit)
it is necessary to serve ns. regardless of whether we have the ability to defend the country is secondary. if we dun do it, nobody will.

all citizens should serve ns. two years of our life is indeed precious, but its no big deal in the broader context of our entire career??? what does it cause you? two years worth of potential entry income or? to me, sportsmen lost out more, esp those who are really talented but have to give up all because of ns.
it is everyones responsibility to one self and to his or her family to try and be healthy. eat less, work out whenever theres time… ippt standards are not over bearing or over demanding… it can be passed and maintained. i wonder for the many arm chair critics here, how much time can be spent doing simple workouts rather than spending time on the internet to complain incessantly on not to exercise… wats wrong with doing 20 sessions in a year? think again, is it really a lot??? u mean u cant even take out 20 sessions a year to exercise? stop finding excuses. u noe u r finding excuses.

I served 2.4 hrs 13 years ago and still continue to serve my reservist. while I may not be the best when it comes to my soldiering duties, I do try my best to understand and perform what is required of me. after all nobody noes whether we are able to defend the country ultimately, but its a definite failire if everyone dun even wants to do it in the first place… taking aside whether I feel for the country or not, I noe that people I care for are all rooted here and will not have the ability to migrate overeseas etc. saf is created to provide protection in times of crisis and I will be here to serve if saf requires me so…		1
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Chaokengkia says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:43 am (Edit)
Im a 27 year old Singaporean. Served my 2 years NS as a CPL and have just completed my 5th ICT. Although i always Chao Keng in camp. But i feel that at least as a Singaporean male, we got to know how to hold a rifle and be ready to protect our family. When got war. you think who will protect your family? The Angmos? FTs? war come they can go back their country. We only got here. Your HDB / car / saving all here what you want to do. You want FT to serve NS. you sure bo? During war may have “friendly” fire. We can only kao ourselves. or u rather hide under your mother skirt during war.

And i also got charged for missing dateline for RT. But please lah. Keep blaming government. They give so many months to complete 20 RTs. cannot go or lazy to go? i admit i lazy thats why i kanna charged. But there are people with so many excuses. What unfair here unfair there. Be a man lah.

Seriously, there are people here who claim they have nightmare of being AWOL just by serving 2.5 years of army. … … … … some words of advice. Grow some balls!		1
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lonelyreload says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:44 am (Edit)
@.@~ how to be UK citizenship leh?		1
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Voice of people says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:46 am (Edit)
@xtra09 please do not think what applies to you applies to everybody as well, not everyone has so much time and enthusiasm in serving NS as you. If you are so kin in doing those duties by sacrificing so much time where you can do so much more with your love one then please sign on by all means. Some parents just got no time to educate their child because of those responsibilities, that’s why so many young kids are so fked up nowadays.

1
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P says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:51 am (Edit)
Even the government knows that serving NS is a joke and they can only force poor 18 year old kids who have no taste of what real money is to serve for a pathetic $480 while being a recruit and a miserable $950 for being a sergeant in the army. That’s the reason why they refuse to let you complete your studies before enlisting who would want to earn less than 1k when they can draw 2-3k as a fresh grad. The only people who want to sign on are those with no education or those who sign on as officers even then it’s just a simple career choice, do they seriously want to serve the country and ‘protect’ it only a fool would think that way. I’ve known warrant officers who can’t wait to leave the army, just that they need they money thus remaining in it.

For those who say that you NS is needed try serving in the army when your peers and everyone there doesn’t give a damn about it and doesn’t even believe in it. Everyday you’re just going through the motion and you just can’t wait to get it over with. Why do you think everyone can’t wait for their ord. NS as a whole is just a big joke. When the war comes i wonder how many people would actually stay and fight i bet the mp can’t even compile the number of deserters.

Try getting two years of your life being wasted away and you doing nothing but waiting for two years to be over, thinking of every single thing that you could do with your life. Army makes you stupid because you’re trained to listen and follow not to lead and people wonder why singaporeans are not creative.		1
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Alvinology says:
October 6, 2013 at 2:58 am (Edit)
@Chaokengkia @xtra09: I am happy for Singapore there are heroes like you two. However, don’t assume and expect others to be as enthusiastic as you.

@sktoh: What has Singapore being safe got to do with NS? You mean the army and police regulars are not the one keeping us safe? The government and our legal system have no part to play? What has toilet signs got to do with who should and should not serve NS? What is your logic here? I know you are trying to sound clever with your one-liners, but dude, no, you seem really dense.

1
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Voice of people says:
October 6, 2013 at 3:00 am (Edit)
lol seriously most people doesn’t really give a fuck in serving NS, and i bet those mp with all those pretty words would probably be the first to flee from Singapore. The government is just trying to find cheap labour that got no choice but to give in to their tyranny. Charging people who does not obey is just the same as whipping slaves into their bidding.		1
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Chaokengkia says:
October 6, 2013 at 3:04 am (Edit)
@Alvinology: maybe you dont really know what is happening in Singapore. How many Army regulars are there? The more regulars we have. The lesser people we have in the workforce. That is why you need a “Citizen” Army		1
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Shane Sang Singing says:
October 6, 2013 at 3:04 am (Edit)
fuck u la janice. u come waste your 2 years then say la…. brainless bitch. only know how to talk. I am perfectly in agreement with alex. every single point!		1
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Wee says:
October 6, 2013 at 3:06 am (Edit)
xtra09 another brain-washed dog detected. Wonder if you are our generation or not. Or just a old man?		1
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ABC; W.Z says:
October 6, 2013 at 3:20 am (Edit)
NS is, in my opinion, one of the most intelligent systems devised by our government. It can bring out extreme sides of all kinds of people.

Look at it this way, people get forced away from their loved ones to serve their country for 2 years, subsequently with added reservist years.

During the two years, all kinds of things could happen. One could get fitter, learn to be an obedient slave that follows orders, make new friends, get injured permanently, spend much time doing work that is absolutely pointless, wasting time doing absolutely nothing due to being stuck in camp, etc.

As someone who is currently ‘serving’ this nation, I can only express my utmost contempt for this system.

Let us take a closer look at what kind of paychecks, for one, that the higher brasses in our Singapore army is drawing. From a captain, say company OC, his paycheck would range around $4k- $6k. At a lieutenant colonel, CO level, his paycheck would range from $6k – $10k. One could only guess what kind of cash anything above that is drawing.
We would not be talking about job scoop here, for, well, those upper brasses would Doubtlessly be very busy Defending this nation from External Threats. Doubtlessly the cash drawn from Our taxes to pay these Great Generals that NeveR fought a War is well spent. They are, all in all, supposed to be making a living like the rest of us, feeding their families and giving their time for this country.

Speaking of feeding people, the cookhouse in every camp is doing a very good job at that. Why, they have to feed all the people in the camp! Of course they have to be efficient! Surely it is well warranted that much extra food is to be catered to ensure that everyone is well fed. Extras might be served as well.
During my stay at Resort World Tekong, I personally witnessed a case in which a company mate bit a cockroach in half during his dinner. Poor fella, vomited his whole stomach out and was quite traumatized of cookhouse food afterwards. Nothing too uncommon, happens all the time in other places. As for food uneaten, into the bin they go. Quite a Ton of that too. Imagine all the use for such wastage. The starving people of 3rd world countries for one. Tax payers money well spent.

Money, that is quite a touchy topic. Looking at the paychecks all NSFs are drawing, it seems that we “men” are being paid like maids, closely followed by our sergeants and officers, those highly paid bangala workers that are employed to dominate the maids. What are we doing in camp? Cheap and pointless labor, all in the name of serving our dear nation(Government).
A prime example would be a friend of mine that fell off a 5-tonner. He is PES E. He had malfunction organs. Why did he have to serve? He aspired to be a chef. He had a goal in life. The fall shattered his left knee. It is alright. Medical technology is awesome these days. He would be up and walking Just as normal in about a year’s time, no doubt.

For the sake of this nation, we are made to serve. A cheap word to use. Serve. A cheap and manipulative word to deceive those that do not peer too deeply into the depths.

A better word would be slave. We are enslaved by this nation the moment we are conscripted. To provide an excuse to leech more money off it’s citizens to build this Fine nation, to line the government, ahem, ministers, pockets.

If I were to make a suggestion, I would say use the money, a ridiculous amount by all estimates, from our pathetic attempts to create an army of unwilling ‘soldiers’ to hire a selective group of agents that ARE prepared to give their time and efforts for a country that is as likely to be attacked by a major world power as it is for a live volcano to sprout out right between us and Malaysia.

The army has it’s merits. It would be unfair to not give it that much. It could bring out the best in some men, to bring out the good in them, or it could bring out the bad. It could straighten a man which is clueless about life out, to give him an opportunity to prove himself, or it could ruin one, by denying the opportunities needed for one to go far in life, forever lost at the expense of helplessness, of being unable to fight the system.

A good deed would never be able to cross out a bad one. Thus I damn this system.
It represents the ugliness of humanity It is a symbol, a great symbol of corruption in the hearts of men.

One that we could, without a doubt, do without.		1
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sg conscript says:
October 6, 2013 at 3:21 am (Edit)
conscript lor when war comes bye bye see which singaporean male would stay to defend the FTs or our families		1
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Brenda says:
October 6, 2013 at 3:29 am (Edit)
Aiya you singaporeans guys can only say. Don’t dare to do la. Look at china bus driver, they protest to government that their pay is low, then gov straight away raise their salary loh. Singapore people dare say don’t dare do. Don’t say la go sleep. Case slow. That’s why NS system will never change!		1
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P says:
October 6, 2013 at 3:31 am (Edit)
For the record i believe a LTC earns about 12k-14k depending on his appointment.

1
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PIE-HZ says:
October 6, 2013 at 3:31 am (Edit)
Some of Janice’s points are actually valid. Not trying to start a strife here, but take a few years back to discuss about our dear neighbour, Malaysia.

Back during the days of merger, they constantly oppressed Singapore and seemed to hasten the process towards our separation. Many reasons as to why followed, some being:

1. Knowing we had not much natural resources and being a small country, force us and the government into collapse and then claim Singapore for sovereignty; OR

2. Going by the textbooks, due to the large amount of chinese immigrants, the Malaysian government was vehemently afraid of a Communist uprising- which apparently never saw light.

Returning to the present day Singapore and Malaysia, look at us now. WHAT A SIGHT TO BEHOLD! As of now, our currency stands roughly 2.5 times against the ringgit for every dollar. You don’t think they want a piece of us? Oh you don’t? Well we can’t be too sure. And what do we do when we can’t be too sure? WE MAKE SURE.

With that said, what better way to make sure then having an army with a strong pool of soldiers ready to defend the motherland? But ah, reality is a bitch. Oh! If only we are bigger! Larger! GINORMOUSLARGER! Annnnnnnnd we ain’t, so it comes down to conscription.
Whine and grunt as we might, lets face it. If we as citizens of Singapore do not defend her, who will? That’s where the “foreign talents” come in.

Now, even with all the magnanimity i can muster, there are still some things i myself cannot find agreeing to. Like many Singaporeans, over the years of, what i believe to be excessive, influx of FTs, our general disposition of them are getting slightly unfavourable.
Spare me the trouble as to why, ask your friendly Singaporean neighbours and they can only be so happy to enlighten you.
-
Back to what I’m about to bring forth, say there are over a million(?) PRCs here. China decides: “I’m bored. Let’s go to war Sing-kie.” Now, give those 1 million+ PRC a gun.
The FIRST question would be: Which side are they going to point the gun at? Will gratitude even be a question in face of loyalty?
That’s where a better solution comes in, WHY NOT LEAVE THEM UNTRAINED, THEN TAKE THEM AS HOSTAGE WHEN CHINA TRIES ANYTHING FUNNY? BEST IDEA EVARRRRR!!!!!

Okay maybe that might have been over the top but hey, just a suggestion right? But in all seriousness and relevance, if i had to take a chance, i wouldn’t want the foreigners knowing how i operate my defenses; spoils the surprise y’know what i mean?
I’m not trying to frame Malaysia alone either, just taking her for relatable measures.

And then last but not least, to each his own, I’d say conscription is important and a “legit” method of defense development in sunny-side Singapore.
A well educated citizen forcefully drafted to be a badass for his country? Sounds… interesting, tell me more about it.
Get paid a monthly salary to do it? Ohhh kay.
Over a span of two and a half years? Hmm… fine.
And serve a 10 years of reservist after that? Umm.. I think i can bear with-
And lose your girlfriend while you’re inside? FUCK NO. BABE, WE’RE MIGRATING THIS VERY MOMENT.		1
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NS says:
October 6, 2013 at 3:32 am (Edit)
@brenda what did the china bus drivers get? they got deported do you wish to know what a NSF would receive should he do something on the same level of the china bus drivers? Think before you say anything stupid.		1
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Vin says:
October 6, 2013 at 3:44 am (Edit)
I don’t think that serving NS will do any part in protecting our little country. We’re not living in the 50s or 60s when soldiers win the war with numbers and skill. If a war were to happen, several bombs from the attacking country will be enough to sink our country, no matter the amount of soldiers we got.		1
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Hana says:
October 6, 2013 at 4:17 am (Edit)
After so much comments and disputes amongst all of us. What can we do other then whine ? Do you really think the government is going to do anything about this ? #justsaying		1
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wkrwkrjwelkjr says:
October 6, 2013 at 4:31 am (Edit)
you guys are all fucking idiots just shut the fuck up and stop arguing. if you hate singapore and our government so much then give up your citizenship and get the fuck out too. we don’t need balless and useless assholes like y’all who only know how to complain and slam others.		1
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Voice of people says:
October 6, 2013 at 4:42 am (Edit)
Seriously who gives a fuck about defending Singapore?no like anything will help when a bomb came crashing. if the government is going to settle our migration smoothly then i think singapore will be left with FT only.And goddamnit the pay of NS is not maid’s pay, even hiring a maid cost more than paying for NSF		1
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Peter Ko Ko Crunch says:
October 6, 2013 at 4:46 am (Edit)
@Alvin:
Quote: “I gave two and a half years of my life to full-time national service. I completed this in 2001. It has been 12 years since. Way passed ten years from my ORD date. I find it ridiculous that I still have to serve at least 4 more “work years” – likely near to my 40s before I can get discharged from this slavery system.

Forty years old… think about it. That is more than half of an average lifespan. An awfully long time to keep sacrificing for the nation.”

I dont think you sacrifice for the nation 40 years of your life. On a broad picture, you would probably have served the mandatory 2.5 years. Plus RT and ICT, probably another year or so. Am I right to say? And the main reason you have to serve till your 40s is because you deferred many times, no?		1
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Cheek says:
October 6, 2013 at 4:49 am (Edit)
NS “may” be necessary today. Maybe just to get us blokes battle ready in case of war. But seriously, we’re going to pit our beer bellied 40-somethings and the rest of our over-worked population against the seasoned big guns of other more established militaries? With scores of down PESed majors/LTCs/warrants to lead us into battle? With that in mind, NS is more or less obsolete. Diplomacy wins hands down

Getting FTs to serve NS in some form negates to some extent any incentive to work here -> I carry a foreign passport but gotta defend SG if war breaks out? Fuck this! I’m leaving. Then SG won’t be able to attract MNCs to set up shop here. Then SG is fucked. Because the MNCs will all move to China

What govt should do is even out the playing field. Don’t mess with the FT system, but zhng the job protection/prospects for SG males so it’s level or perhaps slightly better than the rest.

Women.. Should stop commenting on NS related subjects. Need to bear children and extend the future of mankind? Need to be a princess/lady and be pampered like a little child? Take a leaf from Israeli women. Hardcore Amazon-like women who can be feminine, bear children, raise them, take care of a family and serve their version of NS just the same. Their version of NS is more hardcore than SG’s childcare centre – Someone mentioned NS was to him like a big boy’s scout camp – But then they’re a nation at war. And we’re a nation at peace, so why are our guys serving NS again?

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Peter Ko Ko Crunch says:
October 6, 2013 at 4:55 am (Edit)
“In the mean time, I am subjected to silly school boy hair check at least once a year when I get called back for in-camp training. Not that I like keeping long hair, but I would at least like to have the option to make that decision myself instead of having MINDEF and SAF dictate that for me into my middle age. I am not a full-time soldier. I did not sign up for a career in the army. I was conscripted.”

Its the Army, not a school. So silly school boy hair check is really poor comparison. You are not a full-time soldier, but a soldier nonetheless. Do you dress sloppily for work? For an important meeting? No? Then the least you should do is to respect the Army’s dress code. We may be reservists so we might not think its important but what about the regulars? Should we spoil the image of a soldier for them?		1
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Peter Ko Ko Crunch says:
October 6, 2013 at 5:02 am (Edit)
“Not everybody is born fit and with a physique built to pass IPPT up to their 40s. There are some people who just cannot pass. In any case, my health and my fitness are my own choices in life which I prefer to take my own responsibility for. I hate having MINDEF and SAF dictate these for me.”

Nobody is born fit. Those who are fit merely have that extra discipline to maintain their fitness. You dont need to have a physique built to pass IPPT to pass IPPT. Its not like the Army train you to carry 30kg worth of load for 30km or what. But I do agree with you, its a matter of choice. If you dont believe in it, you wont do it.		1
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Peter Ko Ko Crunch says:
October 6, 2013 at 5:19 am (Edit)
“Google defines a slave as “a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them.”

Does this definition reminds you of NS and reservist?”

If you allow the situation to define you, well, I really guess NS and reservists seems like slavery. And if the situation does not define you, but rather its your reaction that defines you, then NS and reservists are NOT slavery. So what defines you really?		1
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Peter Ko Ko Crunch says:
October 6, 2013 at 5:24 am (Edit)
“Nonetheless, if I ever choose to migrate out of Singapore. MINDEF and SAF are highly responsible.”

Hypothetically, if you ask MINDEF or SAF if you should migrate elsewhere, what do you think their response will be? If you do migrate, it has nothing to do with them. Its YOUR choice. You shouldnt externalise your problems and held others accountable!

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Peter Ko Ko Crunch says:
October 6, 2013 at 5:39 am (Edit)
@Cheek: I dont think Diplomacy wins hands down. You cant have Diplomacy if you do not have an strong armed forces. Likewise, becoming a warring state is not the way to go. Its about balance. You need to have both. There is no either or. Perhaps you should really do research on our neighbours before making such statement. We might be living in peaceful waters, but we might not have very friendly neighbours. Do you know how many soldiers they have? And do you know what their leaders think of us?		1
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Yu says:
October 6, 2013 at 5:57 am (Edit)
@janice , talking is free. that why i see you make everything sounds so nice n easy when the fact that you dont need to serve and waste the time.
TBH, i’m not against of NS. I agree i had grew up n learn alot during NS, but they r simply waste of time.
Girls should really go NS too. To stop having more attitude problem girls or talking big making NS sounds as easy life as winning a dota match

Getting low pay and shit work. Cant even moonlighting. I had to even pay for stuff too. that was a bad 2 years when i’m alway out of money n tinking that FT is alway getting my job		1
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VIM1INC says:
October 6, 2013 at 7:57 am (Edit)
I’m currently serving my NS as a lifeguard, an NSF role that is slowly being phased out as people bring in contractors. I feel that this is a step in the right direction.

The issue is that most people feel that NS is a waste of time, mostly due to the number of roles post-BMT (Such as Clerks and Storemen) that feels rather “dead-endish”, that you would rather put the time to better use doing something else. And the trouble is that most people actually want the roles since they feel that they are not in the capacity to be serving a Military. And more often than not, it is true (at least proven by medical examination.) and they really don’t have a choice. Fair enough, they still have to do something useful in the meantime. Off they go to being a Clerk then.

And then they use that time to do other things – Pursue an interest, retake certain examinations, give tuition to earn a little extra money on the side, etc. Or they can just sleep or stand around doing nothing and waste their time. Ironically, the “dead-end” jobs are also the ones that give people the most flexibility in terms of time, at least from my experiences.

I also think that there is some job potential here. Why bother giving the roles to NSFs who have to be taught what to do, and then when they are taught, they ORD and are phased out after only a short period of time? And then the cycle repeats? Horribly inefficient, I tell you.

Logistics are important, I get it, but don’t you think a person who actually knows what he is doing would have an easier time organizing things and doing his job? The job and pay is stable, there’s some pretty attractive working perks, etc. The only issue is that it feels pretty restricting and there isn’t much prospects down the horizon (not very attractive as a job). That frees up more manpower for people to take on Military Roles, assigned according to their fitness levels and ability. Even a man with a bad back can’t fight? I have a sports injury? That feels horribly short-sighted to me. If at this point more people are training to fight, then the NSF term could be shortened to minimize the disadvantage that we experience.

Just a passing thought.		1
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Calvin says:
October 6, 2013 at 8:01 am (Edit)
Just sharing my experience, my boss is a FT so he never gone thru any of our NS life. So every year we have to go back RT, ICT, Call-up etc.. As the FT boss, he would rather employ more foreigners and female instead of me have to attend ICT, RT every year.. Bosses only wants what’s best for his company, they don’t want to hire a local guy who work lesser days/yr.. But i’m sure local bosses also think this way.		1
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ArtiStrike says:
October 6, 2013 at 8:04 am (Edit)
Honestly @janice please keep your “constructive” opinions and comments to yourself… I think your husband see you talking so much shit here he will slap you too.. Come online want to step one know it all..

Women say men will never know the pain of childbirth, and we really don’t. So stop pretending you know the pain of NS.		1
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J says:
October 6, 2013 at 8:19 am (Edit)
@janice : who knows , maybe foreign power that takes over Singapore might even run it better than it is now . our Government know how to up GDP per capita but don’t know how to up QOL . being better in terms of economically we would naturally be the thorn in the flesh of our asian neighbours .

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sinister says:
October 6, 2013 at 8:21 am (Edit)
Singapore should really rethink about their defence capabilities and changing how the way things work. Despite the fact most of them are blue collar workers, they contributed nothing to singapore’s defence system. No matter how singapore tries to improve itself, dropping a bomb on this little red dot really ends it all. As such, I really think that singapore should rethink the purpose of serving ns as advanced technologies has already allowed us to be more dependable on them rather than a hands-on combat		1
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Anti-PAPzi says:
October 6, 2013 at 8:40 am (Edit)
All PRs should serve in Civil Defence. All new citizens who are deemed too old shold serve in the Civil Defence until aged 45. These should help the playing field for jobs and even out the uneven playing filed for Singaporeans who have to serve in-camp training. This will also ensure that PRs and New Citizens are ingrained towards protecting Singapore.

SAF should stop using NS as a wayh to promote elitism. Officers and recruits and other ranks should all be served the same food and to eat together. The fascist PAPzi regime has used conscription to propagate elitism. This can be easily stopped as per my proposal.

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janice says:
October 6, 2013 at 8:56 am (Edit)
Before I have more insults hurled at me, actually I have to say, despite the crude language, I have to agree with some of you. Here’s a reiteration of some of my points again:

1. All Singaporeans should be involved in the NS, including girls, new citizens, anyone who possesses a Singaporean passport. Who knows, with double the intake, maybe it’ll only take half the time? But, like what you guys have repeated, talk is cheap. Nothing would be done unless one of us decides to invade the policy department.

2. Nonetheless, I don’t expect NS to be entirely out of our lives. It may all be for show only, but without this wayang, I think jumping into the sea would be a faster way to die.

Alright. I shall shut up forever because my husband said that I need not expose myself to more insults hurled at me. For those who think he should have a say, those points are also his views. (He’s beside me right now.)

Thanks for the fruitful discussion, and no thanks for the insults.

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Mum of 2 says:
October 6, 2013 at 9:10 am (Edit)
I’m female and I agree NS and Reservist is a waste of time, esp reservist. My hubby is taken away to reservist every year for sometimes 2 weeks? I depend alot on him to help with house and kids. We both work full time and no maid, my sons are 2 years old and baby. With him not around, it’s hell at home. Kids sick, I have to take many days leave to cope, in the end I also sick. Govt still asking families to have more kids or ask women to contribute to workforce… I find the msgs very confusing. Ask me to work, have kids etc but take my hubby away every year so that I no choice but take leave to cope, Sg mummies not superwoman ok!

My personal impression from hearing NS stories from male friends is that reservist is waste time and army resources as the reservist guys aren’t really helping much (coz not full time army personnel), going there to be like temp staff like that. My thinking is why not make army career so very much more attractive that ppl really wanna join full time and army can pick the best suited ppl (male/female) and don’t force unwilling ppl to go NS? I mean, like that army happy (coz got full time soldiers), soldiers happy (coz they are attracted by benefits), no need to force all guys.		1
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Mr M says:
October 6, 2013 at 9:12 am (Edit)
This is so funny. Actually there are only a few blokes making noises. Not representative. Ignore thus discussion. Don’t waste your time defending. Just some being trying to justify why he left Singapore with FT issue WHEN there were no FT issues at his time. You are all spawned and wasted your time here.		1
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Mum of 2 says:
October 6, 2013 at 9:32 am (Edit)
@janice Try juggling work, rushing to pick up kids from childcare centres by 7pm, cooking for the family…and add reservist duty/NS for females?		1
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LY says:
October 6, 2013 at 9:41 am (Edit)
This whole “FT never serve NS” discussion is so old. If first year citizens must serve NS, then most of our grandparents and parents (including my own Dad) should all have been conscripted already, if they wanted to talk “fair”. Half of the current population will already not be Singaporeans.		1
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Nicholas says:
October 6, 2013 at 9:59 am (Edit)
Everytime I consider NS to be a worthwhile “waste of time” for the reasons of serving my country, national defense and all that patriotic bullshit, then I remember how NS boys are exploited for meaningless “vanity projects” like NDP (annually) and that huge farce of YOG.

Whenever anything requires mass cheap activation for the sake of some PAP mandated nonsense, you can be sure NS boys will be “volunteered”. And that more than anything tells me that NS is a waste of time.

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