Combating capitalist talking points

Talking to non-socialists 2-26-25

Bring up pro-capitalist talking points!

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• We need to supply people with arguments that hold up also when people go back out into ”the real world”

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• We can learn a lot from trying to figure things out together – and it’s also quite bonding!
• It is ok to not have all the answers!

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Point 1. Capitalism creates enormous wealth

Democratic Socialists of America

Recap

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• Capitalists sometimes become richer by doing things that benefit the greater good (starting new economic activities, inventing cool new gadgets), but even more often, they become richer by doing things that do not benefit the greater good at all (lowering wages, increasing rents etc…)
• David Harvey – ”accumulation through dispossession”
• Tricke-down is a weird paradox and not empirically supported – lowering wages and increasing rents somehow doesn’t increase wages and decrease rents…
• The Laffer Curve!

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• Capitalists have an interest in keeping a large chunk of the population poor (so they are willing to take jobs and low wages and have to take out loans)

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• Defenders of capitalism jump back and forward a lot when it comes to the issue of wealth creation:

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”Capitalism creates enormous wealth”

• ”Can the working class have some part of it?”
• ”Lol, no, that would hurt wealth creation”

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• Capitalism creates enormous wealth. Except for all the times it doesn’t, which is like all the time, which is why its defenders constantly have to accuse immigrants and parasites of taking all the wealth.

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• Make up your mind – does capitalism create enormous wealth or do we constantly have to compete with others for the few remaining crumbs?

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• They then often switch to fairness arguments

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I see where you are coming from, but…

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• We have to keep capitalists happy (maintaining a good business climate)…
• Yes, and that’s the problem!
• ”There is no alternative”…under capitalism – the issue of leading with socialism?
• Democratize investment capital!

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I see where you are coming from, but…

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• If you can’t become poor, no one is gonna do anything…No one wants to be ”the sucker”.

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• People can actually be motivated by other things
• Comparisons with other countries
• A great way for capitalists to say that we can’t have nice things as someone will always take advantage (very often expressed in racist terms)
• The difference between solidarity and charity

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• An emotional component - Negative solidarity – ”because I must endure increasingly austere working conditions (wage freezes, loss of benefits, declining pension pot, erasure of job security and increasing precarity) then everyone else must too”

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I see where you are coming from, but…

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• If you can’t become poor, no one is gonna do anything…No one wants to be ”the sucker”

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• People can actually be motivated by other things
• Comparisons with other countries
• A great way for capitalists to say that we can’t have nice things as someone will always take advantage (very often expressed in racist terms)
• The difference between solidarity and charity

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• An emotional component - Negative solidarity – ”because I must endure increasingly austere working conditions (wage freezes, loss of benefits, declining pension pot, erasure of job security and increasing precarity) then everyone else must too”

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It’s not fair that people who don’t work hard should get stuff for free

Democratic Socialists of America

Point 2. It’s not fair that people who don’t work hard should get stuff for free.

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• Why should I suffer the consequences of other people’s poor decisions?

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• “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need”
• Who determines this?

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I see where you are coming from, but…

• Externalities (when a third party is affected by something done between two other parties)

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• Why is ”discipline” always directed downwards? The class nature of ”other people’s decisions”

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• The power to withhold things is a discipling tool and not about fairness at all

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• (Hot take: there could potentially be discipline under socialism too, but to serve other purposes)

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Socialism always ends up in dictatorship

Democratic Socialists of America

Point 3. Socialism always ends up in dictatorship

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• Lessons from the Soviet Union…

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• Bad when the state gets absolute power…

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I see where you are coming from, but…

• Right wing critique of socialism regarding individual freedom is highly insincere, both on an individual and a societal level

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I see where you are coming from, but…

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I see where you are coming from, but…

• Our socialism is very different from the Eastern Bloc version…

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• Perhaps: The reason socialism has often turned authoritarian is because backlash and interventions have resulted in some very ”selective breeding” of socialist regimes

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Socialism and democracy

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Social Power;

Civil society

The State

The Economy

Socialism and democracy

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Social Power;

Civil society

The State

The Economy

Thanks for listening!�

Democratic Socialists of America