Jesus on wineskins for the Kingdom

ross rains

Luke 5:36-39

³⁶ He told them this parable: “No one tears a piece out of a new garment to patch an old one. Otherwise, they will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old. ³⁷ And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. Otherwise, the new wine will burst the skins; the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. ³⁸ No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. ³⁹ And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for they say, ‘The old is better.’”

what did Jesus mean?

• wine ferments in a wineskin and expansion happens from gases
• once a wineskin has expanded it cannot keep expanding
• putting new wine in will burst the wineskin!

​

How does this help us in understanding ministry activity/models?

What implications does this suggest to you?

Snyder on wineskins

“There is that which is new and potent and essential – the gospel of Jesus Christ. And there is that which is secondary, subsidiary, man-made. These are the wineskins, and include traditions, structures and patterns of doing things which have grown up around the gospel. I am particularly concerned with the relationship between such wineskins and the gospel wine, and with the questions of what kinds of wineskins are most compatible with the gospel in modern techno-urban society, for the wineskins are the point of contact between the wine and the world.”¹

presentation title

4

2024

A look at some structures��There are two types of (mathematical) sets, open set and closed set:

John 6

• The crowd gathers for feeding of 5000
• Jews argue about ‘eat my flesh’ statement
• His disciples say: “this is a hard teaching”
• Many turned back and did not follow him
• Peter: “where else to go?”

​

Hierarchical Legacy Structure

(Buddhist temples, Denominations, Mission Agencies, congregations, etc.)

• Multiple layers
• Organization-centric
• Full time professionals
• Highly organized
• Highly managed
• Legacy structure
• Difficult to permeate vision through all the layers
• Much leadership energy works ‘on the business’ vs. ‘in the business’
• Many elders of an earlier era no longer feel connected or valued as they are outside the evolving organization now
• Suits ‘a given’ that the organization must survive at all costs
• Lavish communication and funding infrastructure required
• Centralized leadership

Flat Open Network

(VIP (Japan), Pathfinders, Nexus, Convene, GAIN, house churches, etc.)

• Few layers
• Network-centric
• Facilitator model
• Moderately organized
• Moderately managed
• Reformats occasionally
• Vision is nimble
• Leadership energy is primarily focused ‘in the business,’ not ‘on the business.’
• Elders can identify with a flatter structure
• Suits a national or regional impact
• Moderate communication and funding infrastructure
• Distributed leadership

Open Peer Circle

(Circles of grace, Relational networks, family networks, GAIN, etc.)

• No layers
• Relationship-centric
• Influencer model
• Minor organization
• Minor management
• Renews continuously
• Vision is nimble
• Leadership is focused ‘in the business’ at hand
• Elders identify with this
• Suits an influence network
• Limited communication infrastructure
• Requires high commitment volunteer energy
• Influence leadership

the hand and glove illustration

​

​

hand = body of Christ

​

glove = wineskin

​

A

P

E

S

T

²

timeline

Sovereign foundations

“first birth”¹

Discovering Christ

“second birth”²

KABOOM³

Many experience roadblocks,

resistance, rejection or new revelation and leave the

legacy structure.

THE GOAL

Goes on to maturity and fruitfulness

LEGACY STRUCTURES

OLD WINESKINS

OLD GLOVES

Galatians

Acts 10

1 Corinthians

Acts 15

timeline

Sovereign foundations

“first birth”¹

Discovering Christ

“second birth”²

KABOOM³

Many experience roadblocks,

resistance, rejection or new revelation and leave the

legacy structure.

THE GOAL

Goes on to maturity and fruitfulness

LEGACY STRUCTURES

OLD WINESKINS

OLD GLOVES

Galatians

Acts 10

1 Corinthians

Acts 15

how we get there

CONTEXT

• My culture, language, tribe

​

• My unique starting points, parentage, birthplace, education, etc.

​

• Sovereign foundations (concept by Bobby Clinton)

​

​

THE WORD

• Bible as knowledge

​

• Shapes worldview

​

• Promises from God

​

• Fuels relationship with God

​

• Scripture Roots of Ministry provides a frame for future

​

​

SPIRIT

• Listen to Jesus

​

• Do what He says

​

​

​

​

presentation title

12

2024

Monarch butterfly�“generational metamorphosis”

presentation title

13

2024

Diversity:

Clasper

Aedeagus

Ovipositor

Spermatheca

presentation title

14

2024

Question

If God the Creator has supplied everything the Monarch butterfly needs for sustainability and generational impact, how much more can we rely on the fundamental elements he has provided for spiritual generations!

presentation title

15

20XX

Jesus and Samaritan woman �(Jesus crossing a bridge)�John 4:1-42

WALKING WITH GOD

LIVING OUT

CIRCLES OF GRACE

SHARING RELATIONAL TRUTH

Jesus hints at his identity;

Unpacks her story

SHARING REVEALED TRUTH

JESUS / SCRIPTURES

Offers living water

RESPONDING TO GOD

CALLING-MISSION

She believes and tells her village

LIVING OUT

CIRCLES OF GRACE

LIVING OUT

CIRCLES OF GRACE

Jesus initiates a chat

apostle

apostle

apostle

Kingdom culture / ‘organic church’

• Rooted in the interactive mutual submission of the Father, Son and Spirit. The First circle of grace!

​

​

• But what about ‘structures’ like elders, etc.?
• Elder = older with experience, but still in mutual submission to others. i.e. elders do not ‘rule!’

presentation title

18

20XX

GAIN = apostolic foundations / crossing a bridge

• Abraham/Sarah: Chaldean to Canaanite bridge.
• Joseph: Palestinian agricultural to Egyptian governmental bridge.
• Esther: Jewish to Babylonian bridge.
• Jesus: Heaven to earthly bridge.
• Peter: Jewish to Jewish bridge.
• Paul: Jewish to Gentile bridge.
• Aquila/Priscilla: Jewish to marketplace bridge.
• others …

presentation title

19

2024

​

1. What further thoughts do you have on what Jesus said about wineskins?

​

• What wineskin(s) do you see you are working with or reacting to?

​

• What is needed to see apostolic movement go forward?

References:

​

​

​

¹Snyder, Howard A. The Problem Of Wineskins. 2017

²Cole, Neil. Primal Fire. 2014

³Ridgway, John. Your Kingdom Come Volume 1 & 2. 2017

⁴Ridgway, John. Your Kingdom Come Volume 1 & 2. 2019

⁵Simson, Wolfgang. Houses That Change The World. 1998

⁶ Petersen, Jim et al/ The Navigators. The Scriptural Roots Of Our Ministry. 1990

⁷Wilder, Jim et al. The Other Half of Church. 2020

⁸White, John C. et al. Joy Fueled. 2020

⁹White, John C. et al. Relational Revolution. 2023

​

​

​

thank you

ross rains

rossrains@compuserve.com