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Before

Index SEH 4

(relevant to SEH 2-5)

CAD Download

  1. Rough Plumbing
  2. Water System - vBOM
  3. Water Heater Location
  4. Water Superconnections
  5. Cutout Strategy For Penetrations
  6. Sink Plumbing Deconfliction
  7. Floor 2 Toilet Detail
  8. Modification of 2nd Floor Tub Drain to Horizontal
  9. Floor 1 Plumbing vBOM
  10. Plumbing Install
  11. Utilities Build Procedure
  12. Minitank Heater Plumbing
  13. Shower Trim Kit
    1. Shower Valve Mounting
    2. Shower Kit
  14. Pex Installation Notes
  15. Water Supply to house
  16. Inverter + Transfer Switch
  17. Water Line Lengths
  18. Sharkbite Fittings
  19. Changes
  20. Pack Joint
  21. Plumbing vBOM
  22. Water supply extension to house addition
  23. Plumbing Review
  24. Single Stack Vent Review
  25. Pipe Size Detail
  26. Double vanity
  27. Sink Drain rise

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Before

Plumbing Lengths SH4 Build

pix

10.25”

segment

13” segment

18-⅞” segment

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Before

Plumbing Lengths SH4 Build

pix

10.25”

segment

13” segment

18-⅞” segment

12-¼” segment

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Rough Plumbing

BOM:

  1. 4” PVC, 10’
  2. 4”-3” closet flange
  3. 3” sweep elbow

Floor Plan - still relevant but remember that in SH2, main drain was placed mistakenly right in front of tub, but since then we switched to a cavity wall with plumbing in the cavity - further away from the tub.

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Rough Plumbing Location

Location from foundation is still good?

Here we show 20”+15.5+15 for toilet hole

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Location from foundation is still good? No, now we have a double wall.

  • 52” should still be relevant, so we are 12.5” from utility wall
  • 30.5” should still apply, with 15” from tub face
  • But, main vent should now be inside double wall cavity

Rough Plumbing Location - SH2 to SH4

8”

20

22.5”

13.5”

22.5”

13.5+(5.5/2)=

16.25”

3.375 “

4”

16.25-(3.375+4) = 8 7/8”

4”

22.5” - 3.25” = 19.25”

19.25” - 4” = 15.25”

15.5” + 15”

= 30.5”

3.25”

15.25”

28”

68.25”

15.5”

7.5”

52”

22.5”

22.5”

12.5” - make 13” for ½” play aft. bb

46.5” from wall

52” from foundation

60” from wall

65.5” from

foundation

12”

5” cavity

66” from wall

71.5” from

foundation

28”

61”/66.5” actual - due to ¾” beadboard on 2 sides

67”/72.5” actual - due to beadboard

22-⅝” actual from framing

(SH2 data)

12.5” from framing means 12” from wall. Just right. We had 14.5” actual from wall,

Or 14” from BB, or 1.5” too much. Close this down. Allow ½” play. Make the distance 13”

How to get perfect distance to back of toilet? This should be adjustable somehow. Note that a toilet may have movable water container?

Actually 23” as beadboard behind tub was not counted

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Corrected Theoretical Values for Plumbing Rough-In - SH4

23”

13” (½” play from beadboard)

61” from wall

66.5” from

Foundation

(determined by tub + 2x beadboard))

12”

5” cavity

67” from wall

72.5” from

foundation

28”

2x4 lumber

Center is at 6” (½ of 12” overall)

72.5”-19”=53.5” from foundation

19”

(51” total)

Verify 51”: is tub 30” wide? Yes (1/flange = 31.5”)

5.5”+½” (bb) +30”+15”=51”

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Plumbing Rough-In Cheatsheet - SH4 Freeze

Locate with this corner

Use a 3” coupler there.

Trim flush with concrete, use coupler so

Module I1 snaps right into the 3” pipe

Dimensions are measured as inner box dimensions. Box width determined by closest fit of 2 drains. Box is fit in place. Box depth must be 12” from wall I1, or about 54.5” from foundation edge

4’ length from main vent puts double cleanout about 20” from house

Foundation forms include insulation, so that actual build needs to add 2” to all of these values. Insulation correction in Red,

2” insulation outside saves 1.5 yards of concrete!

23”

72.5” from

Foundation

(concrete, not insulation)

28” f. f.

53.5” from foundation

19”

51”

54.5” f. f.

56.5”

74.5”

55.5” from insulation

30”

23”

53”

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Vertical Picture

Box in wrong place

Actual: tee bottoms out at 3.5” above floor. If joint goes 1.5” in for 3” pipe, then stub should be 5” above concrete.

NB: most relevant metric is midline of first floor drainage (7-⅞” here)

This 16” makes toilet stub flush with concrete

This 21” makes for correct height of kitchen/bath drain

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With double wall:

Framing Correction

22.5”

23”

13” (½” play from beadboard)

61” from wall

66.5” from

Foundation

(determined by tub + 2x beadboard))

12”

5” cavity

67” from wall

72.5” from

foundation

28”

2x4 lumber

Center is at 6” (½ of 12” overall)

Add studs for wall connection + ladder.

Do not use beadboard in cavity so wires + hose bib can run through

Do not use beadboard on edge of Interior-1 wall

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Sewage Ejector

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Water Supply Detail Evolution - 1” House Supply

$226 to $146 and 11 Parts to 8 Parts

Reference Source doc

1” water supply. SDR 9 CTS.

  • $3 insert

1” NPTF Pressure reducer

  • Specs

$95

1” CTS to NPT $33

$12

$19

1” nip 2” long

$6

From street - Separate water and sewer trench

1” Reducer

$74

Must be CTS

$6

$14

$3.5

$12

Evolves to:

Non-CTS ok? SIDR here, CTS for sharkbites.

1” Check Valve

$18

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Sharkbite Fittings - Visual BOM Part Library of Admissible Parts

½” OD?

$16.50

10pcs

5 pcs

10pcs

5 pcs

10pcs

5 pcs

10pcs ¾”

5 pcs

Menards cold

10 pcs ½”

10pcs

Entrance

¾”

¾”

½”

¾”-½”

½”

¾”-½”

¾”-½”

¾”

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Sharkbite Fittings - Visual BOM Part Library of Admissible Parts

½” OD?

$16.50

10pcs

5 pcs

10pcs

5 pcs

10pcs

5 pcs

10pcs ¾”

5 pcs

Menards cold

10 pcs ½”

10pcs

Shower Handles

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Before

Finishing Details

Showerhead

  • Hanger goes through tub shell, needs [3] 4” screws to reach to plywood. Will need blocking.

Toilet

  • First floor toilet flange goes inside 4” pipe
    • Cut flush with floor
    • Tapcons + ring
  • Does flange angle matter?
    • Yes, the flange bolts go in one on each side - 180 degrees apra
    • Height matters - on top of finish floor
    • To correct toilet flange on subfloor - place a gasket and extender on top, then lay a flange extender, which goes inside existing flange. Why? Doesn’t make sense - just use a watertight extender ring like here. This is a good video - https://youtu.be/KP-31BrkN1w?t=184

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Before

Water Heater Location

Water Heater

  • Bottom is at 76” from the floor
  • Middle is at the double stud (4’ from wall)
  • Front band on cabinet is 1.5” higher
  • We can likely move the heater up 10” to allow for more shelf space under the water heater. Or, use a tiny on-demand water heater for more space

76” from floor

Double stud

48” from wall

~86” from floor is probably ideal

Drain bung should be to the right of double stud

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Before

Water Superconnections

Problem Statement: Design uniform water supply for the entire house interior

  • Supply valves: 3 sinks, 2 toilets, 1 washer, dishwasher
    • 3 sinks - yes, it appears to be ⅜” compression. Comes with hoses
    • 2 toilets - ⅜” compression to ⅞” ballcock
    • Washer - MHT to compression
    • Dishwasher - MHT to compression
  • ⅜” to ⅜” OD compression- the OD just refers to M and F?
  • Washer possibility: Toilet:
    • .

  • Another washer possibility:

  • Bath sinks:
    • .

  • Kitchen sink:

$6

Sharkbite to ⅜” compression

⅜” compression to MHT

$5

⅜” compression to MHT

$18

⅜” compression supply splitter

$5

⅜” compression

Union

$4

Angle is important because space behind may be tight

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Before

Evolution

1”

3/4”

¾”-½”

Problem Statement: Water supply in 15 minutes

  • Sharkbite pressure regulator

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Before

Kitchen Sink Plumbing Deconfliction 1

3-3-2”

2”

1.5”

2-1.5”

2”

2” 45 degree bend

Kitchen sink drain

Sink water supply is in the way. Need to move water supply.

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Before

Kitchen Sink Plumbing Deconfliction - Vertical

2”

2” riser above water supply

2”-1.5” adapter

1.5” hub to slip

1.5”

2”

2”-1.5” adapter

1.5” hub to slip

1.5”

2”

2”

2”

Doesn’t fit in utility channel.

Fits in utility channel.

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Kitchen Sink Plumbing Deconfliction - Angled. File.

Street 2” elbow - a bit low

Keep water where it is if we can fit drain between water lines

Street 90 or regular 90 don’t look like they fit.

Use a 2x6

Hole saw for plumbing, widen water fittings

Move the 2x6 above to the Magic 13, so that this serves as backing for both beadboard, and hangs pipes.

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Before

Plumbing Install

  • IPC 708 for cleanouts. Approved cap must be used. Cleanout brought up to finish ground level.

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Utilities Build Procedure

Start with framing. 109.5”. For first floor.

Move on to plumbing.

Move on to water supply.

Move on to electrical.

Why 1.5” longer than 9’?

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Kitchen Sink connection

Why 4 Lines

½” FIP compression fitting?

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Minitank Heater Plumbing BOM

½-¾-¾” Tee

Manual

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Before

Shower Kit

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Before

Pex Installation Notes

Thermal Expansion: about 1” for every 10 degrees for every 100 feet of tube.

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All in One Power Center

125A terminal

12x12 inch box

2” Out the back

1”

Without stripping 4/0

12x12 inch box

2” Out the back

Without stripping 4/0

$34

$50

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Hybrid Grid Inverter + Transfer Switch

Not your standard grid intertie + off-grid

Wires going from outside in

Transfer Switch inside

2” PVC adapter to the back

Charge controllers

Inverter

Battery Buffer

2” conduit

Vent.

Home Depot.

½” adapter

2” PVC adapter to the back

2” adapter

½” adapter

Feed through Lugs

125A terminal

PV System

4/0 Terminal Block - outside

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Water Line Lengths

About 60’ of ¾”

CAD

About 45’ of ½”

½” OD?

$16.50

13’ cold to first floor sink

16’ hot + cold to 2nd floor extension + 2x8’ extension

=32’

7’ cold supply to heater

7’ hot supply to first floor

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Sharkbite Map For Water System - Floor 1 + 2: As Built

1”-¾”

½” tee (cold)

¾”

¾”

¾”

½”

½”

¾”-¾”-½” tee for cold

¾”-¾”-½”-½” crosses

¾”-½”-½” tee for hot

¾”-¾”-½”

¾”-½”-½”

½”

¾”

¾”

½”

¾”

½”

½”

½”

½”

½” (hot)

½”

½”

¾”

½”

½”

½”

½”

¾”-½” -¾”

Might need an elbow

¾”

¾”

Compelling to have smaller valve here

½”

½”

¾”

½”

½”

2

1

3

4

5

½”

½”

24 fittings without caps

Move cold to right side

Could do cross and reducer to make it more elegant. But it’s more expensive, and still has the same number of connections.

This is correct as built

Cold to Supply + heater

Rerouting for SH4.

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Sharkbite Map For Water System - Floor 1 + 2

1”-¾”

¾”-¾”-½” tee (hot)

¾”

¾”

¾”

½”

½”

¾”-¾”-½” tee for cold

¾”-¾”-½”-½” crosses

¾”-½” -¾”tee for hot

¾”-¾”-½”

¾”-¾”-½”

¾”-½”-½”

½”

¾”

¾”

½”

¾”

½”

½”

½”

½”

½”

½”

½”

¾”

½”

½”

½”

½”

¾”-½” -¾”

Might need an elbow

¾”

¾”

Compelling to have smaller valve here

½”

½”

¾”

½”

½”

2

1

3

4

5

½”

½”

24 fittings without caps

Note: actual build was only one cold ¾” to house expansion.

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Visual Purchasing

10

10

5

20

20

1

10

Online

Purchasing:

Local Purchasing:

4

2

1

2

2

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Changes

CAD Download

Add hot water line for bidet floor 1 with a PEX cross

Add hot water line for bidet floor 1 with a PEX tee

Make for automatic water line extension to 2000 SF with ¾” cross for cold and ¾” tee for hot.

Make this line and tee ¾”

Make this line ¾” and tee ¾”-¾”-½”

Make this tee ¾”-¾”-½”

Make this line ¾”

Efficiency note: ¾” water supply to 1000 SF addition costs about the same - tees are $12-$14 depending on ½” or ¾” or mix of the 2, PEX is 20 cents/foot more expensive.

¾” PEX - 50 cents/foot

½” PEX - 30 cents/foot

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Changes 2

CAD Download

Make this a ¾”sharkbite tee

¾” shutoff

Move hot slightly to cold to not hit toilet.

Add cross, not tee, supply hot to bidet

Add wood mounting block on other side

Add shutoff valve here, route vertical PEX further to the right so we can make the bend without using an elbow?

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Before

Pack Joint and SDR 9 - Water Supply Notes

  • There SIDR - standard inside diameter. This is for plastic (or brass) ‘barbed insert fittings’, and uses 2 stainless steel hose clamps.
  • SDR - standard outside diameter. Gets the insert, usable with pack joint fitting (Ford is a brand name).
  • Definition of SDR and SDIR. The thicker the wall, the lower the SDR/SDIR number
  • We want CTS or SDR 9 (relatively thick wall for 200 psi). Typical in-stock is 300’ of CTS SDR 9.
  • Inside the house, barbed joints are not allowed, only pack joint. There are SIDR pack joint fittings, though they don’t appear to be as common. Note: everything underground will rot, depending on conditions. Includes stainless steel in some settings.

ID-controlled pipe

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Before

Final Plumbing Review - 1

CAD Download

  • Older detail is at vBOM Floor 1 and Floor 2
  • Updates were made to make some changes after considering kitchen layout.
  • This is now to be reviewed. Main questions:
    • Do we need AAV on bathroom drain or does that follow the Philadelphia single stack method of waste and vent?
    • Do we even need the AAV on the 2nd story sinks because trap arm can be counted <8’ ?

Needs to be a wye, not cross.

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Plumbing Review Final:

Single Stack Vent

3” Single Stack Vent

Ends up 6” above roof

2” sink drain

Air Admittance Valve Serves Lavatory

2” Washer Standpipe

30” tall

3” drain

4” house drain with double wye cleanout

Air Admittance Valve for Tub-Shower

2” Tub-Shower Drain

3” double wye

Straight no offset

(ignore red parts)

Air Admittance Valve for Kitchen and Bathroom SInk

Kitchen sink

WC

WC

Tub-Shower

Tub-Shower

Is this AAV even needed?

51” horizontal

Is this AAV even needed?

18” horizontal

2nd floor bath sink

Bath

sink

Mini-tank heater

Condensing washer/dryer is used (ventless)

(Philadelphia system)

4” drain

2”

Is this AAV even needed?

sanitary tee is ok based on 706.3

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Plumbing Review:

Single Stack Vent

3” Single Stack Vent

Ends up 6” above roof

2” sink drain

Air Admittance Valve Serves Lavatory

2” Washer Standpipe

30” tall

3” drain

4” house drain with double wye cleanout

Air Admittance Valve for Tub-Shower

2” Tub-Shower Drain

3” double wye

45 degree offset (eliminated in next version)

Air Admittance Valve for Kitchen and Bathroom SInk

Kitchen sink

WC

WC

Tub-Shower

Tub-Shower

Is this AAV even needed?

51” horizontal

Is this AAV even needed?

18” horizontal

(not to scale)

2nd floor bath sink

Bath

sink

Condensing washer/dryer is used (ventless)

(Philadelphia system)

40 of 105

House Water System Expansion

CAD Download

Uses ¾” lines and bend under bath tub so you can pull them and extend them

Mount water lines on pex snap clips at the beadboard in second floor bathroom, at the very bottom back, on left wall. Keep away from back wall

Second floor bathroom makes sense because bathroom in addition is likely to be on the second floor. If separate laundry is used, no problem: route line vertically through utility wall to first floor (or put laundry on first floor

To make extension, drill through exterior wall with 3-4” hole saw big enough to reach in, reach inside, and pull lines out. Play in lines should allow you to pull them out to connect to hoses

Fasten PEX to wall at standard 32” support schedule

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Before

2” 2nd Floor Drain Detail - Build Notes

  • Part - 3” Elbow with Heel

Make Sure this is forward sufficiently so that heel of elbow does not run into 2nd floor wall

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Before

Sink Drain Rise is Needed

  • Currently the trap goes below the bottom board of cabinet in Sink 1 & 2
  • Need to raise it.
    • Use an elbow up here
    • To raise the pipe
    • Needs 4” rise
  • If we build our own cabinet, this is ok for bathrooms.

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Pipe Size and Fittings Detail

CAD

Rosebud Documentation

g

Notes:

  1. Horizontals need sweeps as in IRC Table 706.3

2” Sweep elbow

2” elbow

3” elbow

3” sweep

Wye + ⅛ bend

Wye + ⅛ bend to 1-1/2”

45 deg is vertical, plain elbow works

2”

sanitary tee 3”

45 deg 3” street elbow

combo wye 2”

3” sweep

sanitary tee 2”

Is a sweep elbow useful here for snaking purposes?

2” laundry

2” Trap

1.5” Trap

Dryer vents

3” stack

4” drain to sewer

Air Admittance valves are purple

2” Trap

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Before

Tub Overflow and Supply Lines

  • Overflow is 13.5” up.

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Before

Double Vanity

  • Between 60 and 72” wide
  • Menards - 61”
  • 36” faucet supply line should suffice

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Before

Double Undersink Plumbing: Saving Space

  • Space under cabinet should also be considered
    • This arrangement is optimal from space-saving perspective. Piping is sent towards back, most of the space under sink is available.
      • Rubber fittings used; ok if not inside wall cavity
    • Send pipe to back wall - more space available.
    • But this is hell from the labor + part count perspective.
    • We can avoid this hell labor persective - 12 glue joints, 24 parts) with 2 parts, no glue.
      • Just like above, all space is free with horizontals at back wall, and p-trap turned forward just like in the Fine Homebuilding design.
      • Full adjustability, allows for digital preassembly from plans

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Before

Double Undersink Plumbing

  • Sure you can do PVC connections under a double sink, but it takes much longer. Nice idea - if you are the plumber and want to get paid more. If doing a single sink, it’s easier, but still not advisable. You still need a cleanout or a way to disassemble, and rubber couplers are not necessarily up to code.
  • Flexible is easiest to implement - least alignment because each of 2 connections is flexible. Effectively, there are no constraints - freedom is attained at each joint
  • Count number of slip joints and adjustments required for assembly to assess each option

Area of Flexibility

2 stiff connections; intersink distance must be right. Best alternative - 3 slip joints

4 flexible connections, appears to have too much play.

Hell. Precision required at each joint. 12 glue joints. 24 part count from tailpiece.

Hell. 5 slip joints used.

5 adjustments.

Easiest. 2 slip joints 2 easy adjustments.

>

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Before

Tuscany Bath Sink

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Before

Anatomy of Sink Drain

For space efficiency - p-trap goes straight back

3 main sections of sink drain are tailpiece, tailpiece extension, and p-trap.

With a dishwasher - we also have a dishwasher tee

Here we show p-trap going to the side for easy disassembly - but it is fine to go straight back to save space under sink.

We can easily drop the p-trap lower, so we can locate the drain pipe in the utility channel. Otherwise there are 2 sheathing penetrations: suppy and drain

(We must go back to version with lower drain pipe)

3-3-2” wye

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Before

Rough Plumbing Penetrations Go Through ‘Utility Channel’ Area of Beadboard

Note where plywood ends. This allows water penetrations to happen easily. But we could avoid cutting the plywood. Can we just drop the drain lower? The highlighted trap is 20” below sink drain.

Washer drain needs to ‘empty’ into 3” drain. But what is maximum ‘run’ allowed before it empties? Is that determined by location of vent? If so, this pipe should be 3”.

This would take cabinet space. If a flexible p-trap is used, we can create cabinet space as we can place trap at bottom corner of cabinet.

But since this we lowered the plumbing pipe down to make penetration in ‘utility channel’ area of the beadboard - so we panetrate a small, more maneouverable piece of beadboard: remove beadboard to make cuts to not damage pipes.

New

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How to Align Cabinets with Plumbing Rough-Ins

Before

  • Option 1: Measure and mark
  • Option 2: Use a cabinet without a back
  • Option 3: Use cabinet without 22” of back to do all rough plumbing at framed wall.
  • Design Rationale: Note that wall has siding, and cabinet has a back to it, typically. In order not to go through 2 layers of penetration and thus alignment - use cabinets without a back, or cut out the back, leaving the finished wall visible - cabinet is neat inside.
  • Issue remains for ease of build: a strategy for locating penetrations through wall such that sheathing the walls takes the least effort, including marking and cutting the penetrations
    • Solution: lower drain so that penetrations are in utility channel area of beadboard

Design Summary

Utility channel exists in bathroom, but it doesn’t have electrical and is flat with wall surface.

New

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Simplification Notes

After

Before

Dryer Vent is problematic in that stack vent goes around it. Ok

So move the orange forward so that 1st floor drain goes straight into it without a turn

First floor drain

Moving the stack forward allows simplification of shower so valve mounting is identical on both floors (31.5” to stall flange)

Note that these 2 must be ¾” each to provide the required flow

Eliminated with Condensing Dryer

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Cutout Strategy For Penetrations

30” Long

Design:

  • Issue: rough-in plumbing must penetrate twice: 1) sheathing; 2) cabinets
  • Solution: sheathing is cut 24” from ground, so that penetrations do not need to be made in sheathing
  • Use Escutcheon Plate - 1.5” for drain or 2”

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Hot Supply to Kitchen and Bathroom - Floor 1

12”

Design:

  • ¾-½-¾” push fit 1 - hot supply floor 1 split
    • Flat mount plate like this is desirable:

  • Keep height to 12” from floor so we don’t penetrate siding twice

  • However, the drain pipe, to simplify plumbing, should be about 18” (straight back from sinks to pipe). Thus, framing is exposed to 24” from the floor

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Pex Pipe Stub Finishing

Design:

  • KISS: clamp + wooden mount block:
  • Metallized Plastic flange does the trick:
    • Menards source

On rough surface

Cover Trim for PEX (on finished surface)

Design:

  • Note that PEX Clamp sticks out so far that beadboard is flush with its surface

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Cabinets - Plumbing Integration

Move drain over

To sink

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Valve Mounting Detail - Floor 1

Basics:

  • Tub framing requires 31.5” outer distance to studs
  • Pink is plywood - make it end 1.5” before the stud - so that there is extra support for the bath tub flange.

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Valve Mounting Detail - Floor 2

Basics:

  • Tub framing requires 31.5” outer distance to studs
  • This is accomplished as below - 28.5 cavity and 31.5 to outer edges

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Shower Kit One-Step Mounting of Exposed Shower Handles

Basics:

  • Measure 5.9” separation on shower stall white side. 6” is fine - there are adjustment fittings
    • Use 1.25” hole saw (assuming dropear OD is about 1-⅛”)
  • Front face (face with faucet) is 2.25” in front of wall
    • The drop ear is about this depth - such that fixture blocks should be just about flush with framing
    • It appears the drop ears may need to be ½” towards tub

5.9” Separation

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Shower Kit Tolerancing

Basics:

  • Standard spout height - 4” above tub rim
  • Standard Knobs height - 36-48” from floor, and 8-18” above spout, but 28” in tub-shower. That’s low bc it must serve tub use.
  • Standard shower head height - tallest person doesn’t hit head, shortest person can reach it - 80” standard height. 72”+.
    • Tub Shower is 78” tall, so 80” is perfect
  • Shower Overflow height: cutout already present in tub-shower, about 15.5” above floor
    • Drain is 4” above floor, about 8” back from envelope of tub

Practice:

  • For whatever spout in an integrated shower kit that is selected for a tub-shower - the fittings are located by height of spout over bathtub rim
  • Drop ear shower is a nice idea, but in practice, mounting is not possible because you have to locate it, take it off, and put it on again. Why not a system where location and mounting is the same step, or you allow for adjustability?

4” above rim of tub

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Exposed shower Installation Guide

g

Notes: eccentric mounting for slight correction of supply line spacing, which is fixed. It is not possible to get the exact spacing, so the eccentric provides slight adjustability.

  • Small adjust should be done on top, so that angle of handle doesn’t shift much
  • Top is where the horizontal separation changes the most, while vertical distance changes least:

  1. Adapter socket starts flush with wall:

  1. Fittings behind shower are attached to a solid surface:

Side View

Drop ear flush with wall

This does not work for us because we already have the tub-shower in place, and depth of drop-ears is not adjustable

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Shower Kit Tolerancing

Basics:

  • Height - 19 for overflow
  • About 19” for rim
  • Faucet is such that its handle is exactly right - at the suggested 28” height.

4” above rim of tub

Rim 19”

Faucet 23” above floor

Handles - 28” high

5.9” Separation

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PEX Attachment

PEX Bend Support ½”

or ¾” or 1”

Unsupported PEX bend also exists:

Notes:

  • PEX is CTS tube size
  • Standing pipe off structure will prevent clicking noises when pipe expands and rubs
  • Nail plates needed of PEX is <1.25” inside studs

Check out different pipe clamps - snap vs collar etc:

These appear mountable horizontally and vertically. But aren’t for PEX and are expensive.

These come in ½, ¾, and 1” sizes

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Water Heater Detail

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Water Supply Fixture Units (WSFU) - Try 2 - UPC 610.4

¾”

->8.95

Lav=1

Sink=1.5

Dishwasher

=1.5

Washer=4

Shower=4

Shower=4

½”

½”

½”

Hose=2.5

WC=2.5

WC=2.5

Lav=1

¾”

½”

½”

0.75 + 0.75

by 75% rule

½”

->4.1 + 4.1

1”

->3+3

->2.5

->3 + 3

->1.1 + 1.1

->6.6 + 7.1

¾”

->3.25

->3.75

->0.75 + 0.75

->1.1 + 1.1

->8.45

¾”

One extra fitting required to use 1” pipe (which we already use) and not need ¾” pipe

->2.5

¾”

->2.5

->3 + 3

->5.5

->12.7

->12.7

->6.25

$12

$8

1” CPVC pipe

For 1” spigot to ¾” socket

1” pipe

¾” Pipe

Or:

¾” pipe

¾” Pipe

1” CPVC pipe

½””

Useful to make ¾” for expansion

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Utility Channel

CAD Soource

Nail plates would be needed here. Wall faucet complicates water line routing.

OK

OK

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Cabinets

CAD Soource

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Water Supply Detail Evolution - 1”-¾” House Supply gives

Reference Source doc

1” water supply. SDR 9 CTS

¾” Pressure reducer - NPTF

1”x¾” CTS to NPT.

¾” CTS to NPT

$12

$8

$8

$10

$19

$3.65

$6

$16

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Water Supply Fixture Units (WSFU) - Try 2 - UPC 610.4

¾”

¾”

->8.95

Lav=1

Sink=1.5

Dishwasher

=1.5

Washer=4

Shower=4

Shower=4

½”

½”

½”

Hose=2.5

WC=2.5

WC=2.5

Lav=1

¾”

This is our regime:

  • ½” carries 7
  • ¾” carries 20

From water supply - we need:

  • [2] ¾” lines
  • [2] ½” lines

½”

½”

0.75 + 0.75

by 75% rule

½”

->4.1 + 4.1

1”

->3+3

->2.5

->3 + 3

->1.1 + 1.1

->6.6 + 7.1

¾”

->3.25

->3.75

->0.75 + 0.75

->1.1 + 1.1

->8.45

¾”

->2.5

¾”

->2.5

->3 + 3

->5.5

->12.7

->12.7

->6.25

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Water Supply Fixture Units (WSFU) - UPC 610.3

¾”

¾”

?”

Lav=1

Sink=1.5

Dishwasher

=1.5

Washer=4

Shower=4

Shower=4

3 by 75% rule

½”

½”

½” ½”

Hose=2.5

WC=2.5

WC=2.5

Lav=1

Total WSFU Floor 1 (Cold):

4+2.5+1.5+1+1.5+4+2.5(hose)

=17

¾”

Total WSFU Floor 2:

4+2.5+1=7.5

Total Developed Length From Meter:

300+20=320’.

But here we have only the supply right in the house, or 20’.

Max Height” 12’ off ground, but actually at street height.

PSI=60PSI

Total:

17+7.5=

24.5 WSFU

->1” building supply

This is our regime:

½” carries 7, ¾” carries 20, …

½”

½”

->4.9

7.5

6.5->4.9 by 75% rule

½”

5.6 by 75% rule (cold; less for hot))

->4.1

1”

->3

->1.9

->3

->1.1

->9

¾”

->¾

->5.65

->0.75

->1.1

->11

¾”

Don’t like this.

->4.9

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How To Calculate Size of Supply Water Line Needed

  1. Williams - good one including video
  2. C1S - sizing plumbing systems

Steps:

  1. Correlate water supply fixture to fixtures - Table 610.3 2018 UPC. Count up total WSFU. When summed up - go to 610.4 - and select the corresponding size of the water meter line and house supply line.
  2. Count developed length of most remote outlet
  3. Count elevation - every foot loses ½ PSI
  4. Table 610.4 IPC - gets you the Fixture Units allowed, based on Meter Line Size, and Supply Line Size.
    1. Use 75% method - determine allowable pipe size at each section of circuit
    2. Do it separately for hot and cold. It will be different - ex, toilet has only cold - so this will add to cold water draw downstream

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Water Supply Detail Evolution

Reference Source doc

1” water supply

160PSI - same ID for different PSI, but OD is different. Black has same ID.

¾”-½” sharkbite manifold

¾” Pressure reducer - NPTF

1” CTS to NPT

NPT to Sharkbite

Shower

Sink

Dishwasher

Washer

Kitchen Sink

Shower

Sink

Toilet

Toilet

¾”

¾”

½”

½”

We have 24 WSFU. Is ¾” ok here if supply above is 1”?

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Water Supply Detail

Reference doc

1” water supply

¾”-½” sharkbite manifold

¾” Pressure reducer

Cold supply

Comes with Cord, no plug. ¾”NPT.

No cord. Internal restrict to 0.32 gpm

Heaters

To Second Floor, capped on top

Garden Hose

1” PEX to NPT - would it work with water supply line?

1” valve

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Closure Detail - 2

Notes:

  1. Capping all terminals:
    1. Sewer connection - inflatable plug
    2. Bath tub 1&2 - cap 1.5” stub after slip connection
    3. 3 Sinks
      1. Kitchen - 1.5” cap
      2. 2 Bathrooms - 2” caps
    4. 2 toilets - already come with caps, which are punched out later
    5. Top vent - 3” cap
    6. Clothes washer
    7. Drain pan for water heater?
  2. Final test:
    • Prior to closing up wall - would want to do final plumbing test for traps. See Final Plumbing Inspection. If anything is wrong - this can be fixed prior to covering walls
    • Drain pan for water heater - how to seal?
    • Condensate from AC
    • Hot water pipes insulated
  3. Water Heater Discharge Pipe + Drain Pan
    • Drain pan drains to outside example
    • How to Drain to drain system of house - must have a trap for sewer gases
    • Regulations for discharge pipe:
      • Pipe same size as outlet (¾” for us)
      • Must have air gap - 1.5-6” if above pan
      • CPVC, copper, or galvanized pipe allowed
      • Can drain into drain pan of water heater
      • Discharge must be visible
      • Must not be connected directly to drainage system. Air gap addresses this.
      • Draining Drain Pan is a separate issue. Here we drain discharge into drain pan - it could be drained elsewhere. By draining into drain pan, the final exit of discharge pipe and drain pan is the same - it is down the house drain into sewer.

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Closure of System for Pressure Test - 1

Notes:

  1. Rough plumbing inspection: Regulations for pressure test -
    1. Drains, waste, and vents (DWV) are water-tested with a 10-foot head for 15 minutes. Plastic pipe not allowed to be tested with air. (UPC 712.1, 2, 3), IRC 2503.5.1
      1. Sewer lines is tested - must plug it up
      2. All rough plumbing DWV is tested
    2. Water supply test - 50PSI minimum. Typically 120 PSI.
      • But IRC above says ‘other than air’ for plastic pipes
      • Seems many people online test with air. What gives?
  2. Finish Plumbing:
  3. Capping all terminals:
    • Sewer connection - inflatable plug
    • Bath tub - drain kit can be partially installed.
      • Stopper is likely to be stoppable
      • Overflow may be problematic - screw-in holes may leak
      • -> Cap it after trap
    • 3 Sinks - capped easily
    • 2 toilets - plugged easily
    • Top vent - 3” cap

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Closure of System for Pressure Test - 2

Notes:

  • Need to modify batch drain for horizontal exit, not vertical
  • Use a slip tee
    • Since overflow and drain are inserts - these might fit right in to a slip tee

Need to modify bath tub drain so it goes horizontal

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Kitchen Storyboard - A Useful Lifesize Template - 1

Notes:

  • Storyboard maps MEP and other details in the kitchen - the most complicated area of a house. This is especially relevant to us, with the combination utility wall for kitchen, bath, and laundry - on 2 floors. From JLC June 2020

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Kitchen Storyboard - A Useful Lifesize Template - 2

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Kitchen Storyboard - A Useful Lifesize Template - 3

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Toilet Flange Theory

Design Notes:

  • For optimizing part count and vertical distance and speed of build and effectiveness:
    • Use 4” spigot flange + 4” hub is ideal. Could be used for both the slab and second story SEH.
    • Spigot means it goes into a fitting. 4” spigot goes into a 4” fitting (not 4” pipe)
    • For slab - this would actually not work because main drain needs to be lower so it exits below footer. But - we could use a vertical pipe extension so that we end up with a SINGLE SLAB PENETRATION (water/drain box) when pouring slab - making the slab pour easier.
    • Speed of build refers to not having to use a plug for pressure testing - flange has knockout
    • Effectiveness refers to how overlap occurs between flange and below. If flange goes inside - there is no way that leakage can occur if connection between flange and below is not water tight.
  • For optimizing vertical distance (minimum can be achieved here) and speed of build and effectiveness:
    • To minimize vertical distance, we can use a standard 4”+3” flange, which works with both 3” or 4” pipe. It fits inside 4” pipe, and outside 3” pipe:

3”-4” Flange

3” Pipe

(OD is same regardless of schedule)

3”-4” Flange

4” Pipe

(ID varies with schedule - so Schedule 40 should be used)

OD =3.5”

ID=3.042”

ID =3.998”

OD=4.5”

OD~4”

ID~3.5”

But this does not apply to first floor bath as drain needs to be lower than slab footer

Not effective

3”-4” Flange

4” Pipe Sub

Applies to first floor.

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Toilet Flange Theory 2

Design Notes:

  • Is there any case for a closet bend with 4” spigot end?
    • Only a hub fitting goes over a spigot - yes, those flanges exist:
    • But this can leak if not glued tightly.
    • It appears fascinating that hub flanges exist if they can leak - if spigot flanges exist and they can’t leak
  • Review: SH2 did hub flange and hub bend - so I needed an intermediate piece. Was that a mistake? Go for minimum part count without intermediate!
    • You can tell a spigot flange from a hub flange - hub is visibly wider - where PVC goes right up to the metal ring where the hub has a space between tubular PVC and metal. Good test question. By examining both visually from a picture - tell me which is a hub and which is a spigot.

Both options for flanges are hubs.. Not effective - can leak if not glued properly.

or

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Plumbing Floor 2 vBOM

2” Cap for pressure test

DFUs - 17 total

2 toilets - 6

2 sinks - 2

2 Shower - 4

Washer - 3

Kitchen sink - 2

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Plumbing Floor 1 vBOM - 2

1.5” PVC Trap

2” PVC Trap

3-3-2-2

wye

Dishwasher Plumbing

9” from floor. Raise to 18”.

2” Cap

1.5” Cap

Water heater drain pan adapter

Why is this not a flex tailpiece?

2” with AAV on top

3” main stack

1.5” trap to sink

Deprecated:

Q: does 1.5” trap still apply to single stack vent

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Plumbing Floor 1 vBOM

1.5” PVC Trap

2” PVC Trap

2”-2” connection

3”

3”-1.5”

Dishwasher Plumbing

3”-2” because we have AAV

This would ideally be 3” with arms at 2” - but can’t find combo fittings like that

9” from floor. Raise to 18”.

Get Rid of stiff connection

Deprecated:

Q: does 1.5” trap still apply to single stack vent

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Does It Make Sense to Leave Sink Drain at 45 Degrees?

3”-3”-2”-2”

2”-1.5”

2”

1.5”

2”-1.5”

Get Rid of stiff connection - makes it hard to align to tailpiece extension

Make sure this comes with gasket for slip joint to trap

Conclusion:

Good: Access for cleanout purposes. Avoids use of one 45 degree bend.

Bad: more space needed to install cabinet, as you slide it in to place at a 45 degree angle.

Note: double wye deprecated because 2 sinks are staggered and not exactly opposite of each other

Direct connection to sink tailpiece includes reducing washer for 1.25” sink

Rough-in phase

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Flexible Bathroom Sink Drain + Air Admittance

3”-2”

2”-1.5”

Direct to sink tailpiece without requiring tailpiece extension

3”-3”-2”-2”

2”

3” double fixture fitting - would be easier if it had sides at 2” - but it only comes with all 3” fittings. Disadvantage is using all the reducers: 3”-2”.

2”-1.5”

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AAV - 24 DFU on 2” PVC

Specifications

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Plumbing Floor 1 Notes

Note S-trap. Not allowed.

  1. Use sealant to make connection of drain to tub both on fitting and on tub.
  2. Tub is 1.5” drain
  3. Slip adapter - adapts from PVC slip to compression.
    1. Terms are confusing - some places call it PVC hub to slip joint
  4. Do not use thread tape on threads of compression fittings. Marvel connector video is incorrect.
  5. Horizontal DFU for 2” is 6 - so need 3” to handle washer+sink+kitchen sink+dishwasher = 3+1+2+2
  6. Kitchen and bathroom sinks have different sizes, and bathtub…
  7. Dishwasher manual
    • Needs flexible braided water supply line.
    • Fasten dishwasher discharge to underside of counter for proper drainage per 802.1.6
    • DFU of sink + dishwasher = 4. 1.5” pipe can do only 3 dfu, so we would need 2”, except codes call for 1.5” for the kitchen sink with dishwasher
  8. Installing Toilet Flange

Note - Menards site has links to all supporting documents. Discharge is 1”

Plumbing must be protected like this from touching concrete - both water and sewer. Water source must also be supported.

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2nd floor Toilet Detail

Reference doc

toilet

Toilet Detail. 4”-3” is a standard for good flow.

Vent

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Questions

  1. Does our system qualify as single stack vent?
    1. Yes - 2” fixture verticals are used for sinks and showers.
  2. Do we need added venting per ‘more than 1 toilet discharges into a horizontal branch’

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Explained for highrises. This is a special case?

Stack vent is the extension of stack to provide venting.

What is a combination waste and vent? Horizontal wet vent + up to 8’ wet vent riser. But went vent upstairs can’t have blackwater.

The Single Stack Vent System involves an oversized stack and oversized drain verticals. It limits the distance of fixtures from stack - to 8’ for toilet and 12’ for others, requires 2” vertical drains, and no more than 4 feet drop from fixture to branch drain. When these conditions are met, then we can use a single stack. Most houses probably don’t do this because their plumbing is spread out all over the place - and is a case where effective design is actually endorsed in codes. This thread supports this reason for why single stacks are not common.

DFUs - 17 total

2 toilets - 6

2 sinks - 2

2 Shower - 4

Washer - 3

Kitchen sink - 2

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Revisiting the Waste Stack Vent

Do I need a separate vent? P. 11

What is a single stack vent system? P. 17

Uses oversized stack. The length of trap arms is limited and the vertical drop from the fixtures is oversized also. Vent is same size as stack.

If this is wet vented, WC must be on bottom floor. A single stack system overrides this rule.

If I upsize the orange main vertical - do I need the AAV shown? Ie, stack serves as vent.

Does this also function as a single stack vent - circuit vent?

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SEH 2 Kitchen and Bathroom Part Library

g

Dishwasher

Range

Fridge

Superfridge

Toilet

Kitchen

Sink

On-Demand Water Heater

  • Previous working doc source
  • Method:
  • Design for modularity - with Utility Panel that includes water, drain, electrical, shower vent; no laundry vent (condensing dryer)
  • Examine part in detail from websites
  • Select fittings and other details - exhaustively - for supporting parts and tools that are needed at LOD 500
  • Guess unknowns
  • Verify with actual product that was bought
  • Organize geometry
  • Produce CAD

Dryer

Washer

Range Vent

Air Admittance Valve

Bath Vent

Shower

Visual Index:

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Bathroom Sink 2nd Floor

g

Bath Sink

  1. Max trap arm - 8’ for 2”

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Bosch Minitank Heater

g

Minitank Heater

  1. Main SH2 BOM BBo
  2. Item source
  3. Brochure , Installation Manual , Engineering Submittal Sheet

Notes:

  • Comes with cord and no plug, all fittings are ¾”.
  • Check anode rod once per year
  • Drain Pan - IPC 504.7 - p. 36. Is it necessary? 1” wider on each side.
    1. Tankless need it.
  • Hydrogen gas can be emitted if this device is unused for 2 weeks or longer (see p.4)
  • Can be mounted horizontally or vertically
  • Heat Recovery rate of 7 gal/hr at 90 deg rise
  • Needs isolation at cold inlet. This can be at hydronic manifold.

¾” Male NPT

Comes with Pressure Relief

Must have discharge to drain

Valve needed

Warning: heater cannot be drained! Plug is on the side midway up the tank. Unless you turn it upside down. Just like normal: industry standard products suck in almost all cases - this well-recognized brand is no exception.

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Minitank Heater Installation

Is this true?

g

Minitank Heater

Notes:

  • Install plug. Install Pressure relief.
  • Wire with 12 ga wire, to a 20A branch circuit (p. 9)
  • Install drain pan. Plumb drain pan to drain.
  • Plumb pressure discharge to drain
  • Permanently wired devices must be disconnectable acc to NEC 422.31(A). Install shutoff switch or lockable breaker 1 or breaker 2. See NEC 110.25. Or, just use a Power Cord. It says it comes with a power cord, but cord must be hard wired into electrical connection on this device. It says it needs a Conduit Strain Relief (non-metallic cable connector).
  • Anode rod should last 6 years.

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Minitank Heater Drain Pan + Indirect Discharge + Source

g

Minitank Heater

Notes:

Cross does exist but it is ¾” and ½”

Can P-T valve drain directly into indirect drain, avoiding drain pan?

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Washer and Dryer

Simplification

g

Notes:

(next page)

Dryer

Washer

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Framing - 1st Floor

CAD

tub

g

Issues:

  • Water supply must be accessible readily (ref)
  • Minitank Water heater must be accessible readily
  • IPC 406.3 says 2” is minimum trap for washer. If larger, can have longer run to vent - 12’.
  • See Washer Standpipe dimensions

tub

wc

Top View

Side View

2x4 wall

Hooks from the back so it lives in the wall cavity

Wall Cavity

Can’t be below floor (readily accessible for cleaning gy UPC). Max height appears to be arbitrary, outside of max 60” to washer connection so washer drain hose can reach

Max appears no to be determined by 24” max from outlet to weir. For washer, it is from 18”-30” in UPC and 18”-42” in IPC

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Bathroom 2nd Floor

tub

g

Notes:

tub

tub

foundation

tub

wc

Floor joists

2nd Fl

Right Turn

Back Turn + Up Turn

Back Turn + Up Turn

Top View

Back Turn + Up Turn

2x4 wall

Side View

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Framing - 1st Floor

CAD

g

Issues:

  • dfa

Side View

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Next iteration - Move Main Rough-Plumbing Down like This:

g

Top View

2x4 wall

Moved on other side of 2x4 wall so plumbing goes through wall cavity

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Bath Tub

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Bathtub Photos. SEH Bathroom. Link. Installation Instructions. Notes:

  • Install drain. It’s above floor level. Screw it from the top with pliers.
  • Geometry implies that overflow downpipe does not extend beyond footprint of bathtub
  • Instructions don’t say anything about the feet - a spacer must be used under the feet so the tub stands straight. Spacer is exactly about ¾”.

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Inspection

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Inspection checklist.

Notes:

  • To what state is rough plumbing completed?
    • Overflow?
    • Faucet?
    • Shower valve?

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Wall Module 49 - Bathroom Module 1 - The Hardest One

Reference doc

Elements of Module 49:

  1. 2x4 studs are recessed in a 2x6 frame
  2. Water source from street
  3. Water distribution divider - 1” plastic potable to PEX sharkbite fitting. This should be fixed in panel.
  4. Turnoff valve before anything else
  5. Pressure regulator before water distribution divider
  6. Shower Valve Assembly
    1. Standard Height
    2. Flex Pex to shower faucet, which is also at standard height.
    3. Shower ends up above shower stall so it doesn’t penetrate shower stall but only the plywood interior
  7. Drain + Overflow of tub - attached loosely to panel
  8. Includes sink drain pipe
  9. Includes 3” vent stack
  10. Vent stack reaches to to top, bends right to match toilet location and to stay out of way of shower mixing valve
  11. Top of panel allows for vent

Valve location is at standard height

3” stack vent

Faucet is at standard height

Flexible connection so we can pre-drill shower stall holes

heater location is at standard height