KFP 4 Co-Director Q and A from the r/KungFuPanda Discord 09/03/2024
So you mention how your a story development/storyboard teacher, I'm unfortunately in the UK so your classes are probably out of my range but for the others in the US if they wanted, how would they be able to join your classes as a student?
My classes and workshops are all online (Brainstorm School) :) They range in price and length of time, but I’m not a consistent teacher because of my main job. For example, I haven’t taught since last summer. I had to take a break because I didn’t know when I would be called in to the studio outside of the usual 9am-6pm time range; there were many times especially in the last couple of months when we had to go in to the main studio (DreamWorks) or Warner Bros. Studio, where we did sound mixing, and another studio which I’m blanking on the name on, where we did Image Finaling
In the film making process how much power would you say different members of movie have? (So director, you, producers and other high level members)
The level of power depends on the makeup of the filmmaking team. Joel Crawford and Januel Mercado for example where Director and Co-Director respectively on PIBTLW, but Joel always thought of Januel as an equal. The studio executives did not agree with his insistence that Januel be a Main Director along with him, so for TLW, Januel was a Co-Director. If they work on anything in the future together, I’m pretty sure DreamWorks’ studio executives will let them both be main directors together.
On many other movies, across all studios, a Co-Director does not have the same level of authority as the Main Director. The main creative say will often go to the main director, in KFP4’s case Mike Mitchell. This makes sense from a business standpoint because Mike and I had never worked together prior to KFP4, and I was untested in a feature leadership position (I was an episodic director on season one of She-Ra and the Princesses of Power, but feature people don’t count TV directing as experience)
However KFP4 was even more of a special case because Mike Mitchell served as the Executive Producer as well. He had even more authority than a regular director would. Plus his IMDb credits are long and impressive—he’s someone known to get movies done. (It’s a miracle any movie gets released in theaters—you may have heard of many movies in the last couple of years that were finished but then pulled or axed because of tax purposes etc. etc.)
If you want real creative say in the Hollywood of today, you have to become someone who can do it all: you have to become a writer-producer-director, like Christopher Nolan.
Otherwise, other than exceptions like Mike Mitchell having supreme authority even over our studio executives, many animated films (especially with high budgets) will count on the studio executives to have the most creative say. It’s an odd case but my guess is that they need to show that they know what they’re doing, that their opinions are helpful to a movie’s box office score and financial success, etc.. This is why filmmakers by and large love A24, because those execs often times find directors, give them money to make a movie, and leave them alone until they come back with the finished product. They don’t give notes.
Gonna try my best to ask KFP 4 questions as unspoilery as possible (But these will be spoilered just incase). But me and a few others i spoke to understand that KFP 4 had a lot of characters to handle in so little time explaining why the Furious five couldn't get any inclusion. But why were they given almost jokey missions to go to?
Furious Five joke-y missions: these were made up by Mike Mitchell and a writer who came on halfway through production, Darren Lemke. A bunch of storyboard artists, concept artists, animators, and production people threw in other ideas too. (I also threw in an idea of what they could be up to.) However, this is first and foremost Mike Mitchell’s movie. He wanted people to laugh :) So that’s why they were joke-y. The only mission I protested was Mantis’. I don’t think he would ever get married. Also, I dislike the “wife bad” trope, and I think even if it were to happen, Mantis would be more than capable of handling a murderous wife.
How come the Kung Fu Panda movies are always fixed to roughly 1 hour and 30 minutes in length? Has there been considerations for a TV series canon to the movies? (Since LoA, PoD and TDK are considered non canonical)
From my understanding, the 90 minute (we actually always reached for 85 minutes most) is because studio executives think that children can’t sit through a longer movie. Also, the more screenings you can fit in in a day, the more money you make. It’s purely a business reason.
TV is not considered canon, unfortunately. They are two entirely separate divisions. I never understood it, but there is a pretty intense rivalry between “feature” people and “TV” people. (I “grew up” in TV myself, but most of my career has been in feature now, so I respect both.)
I understand voice actors are expensive so i would of been happy with sound a likes personally, But how come Kai and Lord Shen did so little? And will we see them again in the future maybe hopefully doing more?
A5:
Tricky… not sure if it’s unwise of me toI say or not, why General Kai and Lord Shen did so little in this movie….
I think the answer will just make everyone upset >_> Let me just say that they were last minute additions. Their rigs were made of sticks and glue. The animation team was really happy to include them in there, but everyone wanted them to have a speaking role.
I think everyone can agree that Tai Lung is redeemable apart from the fact some of the Rhinos potentially died (As you can't reverse death). But whats your thoughts on the redeemableness of Lord Shen and Kai? Lord Shen continued down his path for thirty years but shown what could be argued to be remorse while Kai spent 600 years in the spirit realm and still wanted revenge.
This is all a matter of personal taste and opinion—whether or not General Kai or Lord Shen can be redeemed. If it were up to me, if I wanted to redeem these villains, I would have brought them to the forefront in the story. However, since they were last-minute additions, there was no way for the team to even weave them back into the plot in a visual way. The only way to do it was a band-aid fix (dialogue; for example Po or Zhen or The Chameleon say their names). It’s not as effective as showing of course, but by the time they came into the story, we simply did not have the time to re-time, re-animate, or re-score scenes to include them in a meaningful way
Whats your thoughts on people that do feel bad for Shen? (Don't worry 99% don't agree with his actions lol)
I love a villain like Lord Shen. He brought his own demise upon himself. I think redeeming him is totally possible. I’m a big fan of Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba, and Tanjiro having the ability to make demons remember their past lives and mistakes and then regret them right before passing on, was always very touching to me. I think if those demons could be “redeemed” in a sense, Lord Shen can as well. But that’s just my personal opinion, and in this matter I’m a regular fan like everyone here.
Personally i did have a theory (Before the films release) that Tai Lung would be a spirit realm summon, Shen would of been alive the whole time but the Chameleons actions forced him out of hiding, And Kai would of like had his soul put back together because he kinda blew up in the spirit realm. How come the decision was made to have them all be spirit realm summons?
All three of the villains were spirit realm summons because Mike insisted that they had all been sent back to the spirit realm. He pitched this neat idea that The Chameleon only wanted to summon master villains from the spirit realm; therefore all of the caged-up masters are villains, some that Po had fought, some not
So if everyone that dies goes to the spirit realm doesn't that kinda take away some of the stakes now? Like yea i get a blood moon is required but doesn't this still like make death reversible?
Not everyone who dies goes to the spirit realm. This was never fully agreed upon by everyone on the team (I think it would have helped if Mike and the writers Jonathan Abel and Glenn Berger had prepared a Story/Character Bible, but they didn’t, so…) I think the vague understanding is that anyone who has done kung fu is able to go. (I’m just stating facts here ;)
I did notice that Shen and Crane had 3d model changes, what other characters has this been done to in the film? And has this been done just to increase quality or in the case of Shen to make animating him more easy since he used to take the work of like 6-7 characters.
Lord Shen, Crane—in fact all of the Furious 5… they were last-minute additions. Our Head of Story Calvin Tsang and our Head of Character Animation Sean Sexton were the biggest and most vocal advocates for bringing back the Furious 5, but it was only when Marketing stepped in and said that we need to bring in the Furious 5, that they were added—in the end credits scene. So their models were also made of sticks and glue :/
(I should add that Calvin and Sean and quite a few others had been advocating for the Furious 5 to come back since the very beginning; myself included. But once I learned the reason why they couldn’t be included, I had to agree that it was going to be nigh impossible to bring them back with speaking roles.)
Based of the Kung Fu Panda 3 backstory some of us have inferred that Oogway was once a bad guy and that his second chance at life and the teaching of the Pandas changed his view of the world, whats your thoughts on this interpretation?
I think this makes a lot of sense—Oogway once being a “bad guy”. I think the wisest people I know have all done things they weren’t necessarily proud of, but definitely learned from. I don’t think it’s necessary to go through “bad” experiences to become wise, though. But yeah—it would be super interesting if, in another universe, Oogway turned out to be a villain. (A really slow one though haha!)
How many render hours did the film take?
Every time we needed to render the entire movie in the last month, I think it would take about 4-5 days…? That’s something I should ask production—they would know more than me. I know that every story/animation change that happened in the last two months was a huge headache for production and the editing team, though ^^;
For the purpose of fan art could you give us an idea on the heights of the characters if possible? Last time i asked someone who worked on a Dreamworks KFP movie i did find that a made up unit of measurement got used for scale at least for the second film, Is this still the case?
That’s an excellent question. The storyboard team constantly asked the production designer, Paul Duncan, for a character line-up, so that we could know how tall Zhen and The Chameleon were compared to Po. The lineup was always changing, though. I don’t think there was ever a final lineup. Even in animation, there are ways to change the sizes of the models 15% in either direction (larger or smaller) in order to make the compositions look as good as possible. Anything over the 15% range would start to “break” the model
Any scrapped backstory for the Chameleon? What backstory that didn't make it in would you say is still canon to the character?
SO MANY SCRAPPED BACKSTORIES FOR THE CHAMELEON. This one I’m really passionate about lol
We had two test screenings 2 months apart. In each test screening, there was NO BACKSTORY or motivation for the villain, or even for Zhen. All of us were pushing Mike to include backstories and motivations for these two characters, but he pushed back. It was only after the 2nd test screening that he agreed to include back stories, and by then we were already in the middle of animation. Our producer didn’t want us to add too much time to the movie at that point either.
I honestly think this is the worst mistake that a filmmaker could make. Backstories and motivations are essential. “A picture is only as successful as its villain” is I think how Alfred Hitchcock’s quote goes. Even the studio executives, who didn’t have much power over Mike Mitchell, kept asking him if he could include some sort of backstory for these two new characters. Again, he didn’t budge until the last possible moment.
Is there any backstory on the reptiles that work for her?
We treated the Komodo dragons as “stormtroopers” for The Chameleon. The one Komodo dragon who says “Shut up, Larry,” is actually our lead editor, Chris Knights
How harmful is cam rips and just other illegal methods of obtaining the film to the success of the movie?
Cam rips and other methods are part of what kills a movie’s success for sure. If you want to see a KFP5 or KFP6 or even HTTYD4 get made, something like that (just saying as a possibility, not saying this is happening at all—it really isn’t unfortunately), then our parent company Universal Pictures has to see DreamWorks making a profit. Cam rips eat into that profit. If there’s no profit, there’s no future product.
If your aware of them, Whats your thoughts on furrys? (Since theres a few of them here)
My thoughts on furries is that they’re fun people to talk to. I am not one myself, but any time I meet a furry here in Los Angeles they’re like… the nicest people :)
What would a Kung Fu Panda film look like with total creative freedom in your opinion? (Or at least more of it)
A Kung Fu Panda film with total creative freedom? Haha. That depends on the director. KFP4 is what you get with a director who had total creative freedom
Kung Fu Panda 2 is what you get when Jen Yuh Nelson had near total creative freedom
What struggles/challenges did you face as a co-director during this films production? Are any these common to face?
My struggles/challenges as a co-director… all in the beginning, the first year. No one in leadership at the studio knew me, so my creative opinions were constantly swept under the rug. I had to take the time to consistently prove myself by constantly providing solutions or ideas that many people in the room witnessed and resonated with. This is not an uncommon experience, though. Even—or especially for—an introvert like myself, speaking up constantly with something valuable to add, no matter how big or small, was the thing that got me to a point where (I think) the entire crew trusted my notes. Even Jack Black said that Mike Mitchell was the “comedy guy”, and I was the person who brought things deeper and brought more heart. (I have video proof in one of my IG highlight reel stories thingies, whatever they’re called lmao)
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Does everyone go to the spirit realm? or does one need a certain amount of Chi or knowledge to achieve it? (You basically answered it already so feel free to skip)
Niiiice I already answered this one haha (Go to question 9)
Was it considered to have the fourth film longer at one point?
The 4th film was never considered to be made longer. The original story, as you might have spotted from one of our early concept artists Luca Pisano’s social medias, actually had Zhen and The Chameleon be human (she was actually known as The Collector before we ditched the humans idea). They came from a city called… Hu-man city. /facepalm
My one victory early on in my first year of co-directing was to take out a plot idea that actually took up 20 minutes of screen time.
Let me back up first—the original story was supposed to be hybrid live action/animation, that’s why there were humans
For some reason before I came on, the leadership team scrapped the hybrid live action idea. They kept the humans on for a while though, up until our 2nd animatic screening if I remember correctly.
The original writers, Jonathan Abel and Glenn Berger, had written a whole thing where Po and Zhen made a plan to… hide Po in a box.
They spent time building the box, then Po spent time hiding in the box, the box was carried up to The Collector (such a weird name because General Kai was known as Kai The Collector… how did these writers forget their own characters? Haha…), and then of course, Zhen betrayed Po as soon as he came out of the box to face the villain
I pointed out that “Uh… this is a KUNG FU Panda movie, why is Po stuck in a BOX for TWENTY MINUTES OF SCREENTIME?
Why have the furious five, Shen and Kai kinda do nothing the whole film? People kinda got their hopes up for nothing. Some people also feel as the reasons given for the furious five being gone just feels like they were given silly reasons for the sake of being funny. (This one also basically got answered already)
I don’t know how far this will go but I’m not sure why this is being kept “secret” when I think with a little digging, anyone can find out. About 20 years ago, Jeffrey Katzenberg, Pixar, and Disney enticed A-list actors to do voice acting roles. But because those studios were relatively new at the time (except for Disney of course), they couldn’t afford the huge contracts that A-list stars usually ask for. So a system was set up: Do the first movie for X amount of money with X percentage of residuals, and every subsequent movie or sequel, you get an exponential increase
As I said, I was one of the people who was very vocal about bringing back the Furious 5. But once our producers let me know that “one line from Angelina Jolie would cost us $20 million” (I’m not sure if that was hyperbole or not), I backed down. The movie would have to make like $2 billion box office for us to see a profit. Movies are the worst business venture ever (there’s no way to predict a hit, except during the first phase of Marvel—and even that waned, didn’t it?)
Is Pelican female or male? Do they have any name?
Pelican is… female, apparently. Her name is Chip. The fish inside her beak is named Fish. These characters were created by our storyboard artist Trey Buongiorno (please find him on IG, he’s awesome), and named by one of our character designers, Seth St. Pierre
For the production of the 5th movie, will you take some ideas you come across on the subreddit and discord for some inspiration as it helps with understanding what the audience would like to see?
Any time I see someone say “I’ve got an idea for a future movie,” I scroll through. DreamWorks has too many lawsuits against it, I don’t want to add to their problems. I also think I’ve got some pretty good ideas lol, but time will tell. If you have any idea that you want to pitch, you’ve got to build street cred first. It’s a bit rare for a young newcomer to break into a big directing role “out of the blue”. There are a lot of people in line, a lot of people who have been pitching ideas their entire careers. Every single studio exec would rather take a pitch from a person whose name has been circulating for a few years in the industry, than from a stranger online. This makes sense, right?
However I think the “opposite” is possible as well. Do you all know ND Stevenson? He created the graphic novel Nimona, which became a hit Netflix movie
I worked with him as he was one of our showrunners on She-Ra and the Princesses of Power. He was the youngest person on our crew. Everyone else was older than him, with actual experience in the animation industry. But all of us were super happy to work under him, because he had strong vision and took great care of every single one of us. I’m still friends with him today.
So age and experience doesn’t need to matter. It just usually does.
Is it planned to have a short film about each villain? like 10-15 minutes each or something like on backstories, situations that happened during the movies, or moments from their childhood?
DreamWorks used to have a program where it had its Heads of Stories (in KFP4’s case, Calvin Tsang) direct the short films for the features. They took away that budget, though. Not sure why, as it’s a real shame. It was a great way to train up-and-coming directors.
Oh but I should say, Calvin Tsang was still able to direct a short film for KFP4! I think it’s amazing, seriously. I hope you all watch it. I won’t say what it’s about, but being as objective as possible, it shows how strong of a director’s voice he has. But… this part sucks. DreamWorks and Universal gave him very few dollars to make this movie. So with script, storyboards, layout, animation, lighting, music, sound design, final imaging…
Q27:
Will there be any spin offs or something for us older fans? If you watched KFP 1 as a newborn you'd be 16 now which is a lot.
A27:
I’m not sure if there will be new spin-offs or not. From what I understand, DreamWorks dissolved its TV division, although a part of it kind of remains. They’re making Coco melon (is that how it’s spelled??)
Mike Mitchell has said repeatedly in the last couple of months that DreamWorks had better do a Furious 5 spinoff :)
So he’s a hero for that! Haha
It’s up to DreamWorks and Universal to come up with it though. But trust me when I say that all of the execs are extremely aware of your comments. Everyone wants to see a Furious 5 spinoff.
I’m unsure that under this current studio leadership there will be a spinoff that is “older” in the sense that Spider-Verse is for older audiences, and also KFP2. I think they want lots of comedy; that’s their taste. But we’ll see. I think you guys have to make it known that you want something like that
And then when they choose a director and producer team, those individuals will have to be able to live up to your expectations, and also play the politics game well enough that that more grown-up tone actually survives. Again, it’s a miracle that ANY movie gets made and released, so if one with a more mature tone gets through, well… that’s a miracle amongst miracles
Was Shens 3d model being a bit different in terms of looks intentional?
Lord Shen’s 3D model was… built on sticks and glue… that’s how Sean Sexton put it… but the animators and character effects animators did their best with the budget we had and the time we had. Huge props to them. I think many of them worked long OT to even get Lord Shen in….
why is Shifu's staff missing the golden piece?
Master Shifu’s staff is missing its golden piece—I think because our production designer Paul Duncan pitched the idea that when he mastered chi, he was able to fix the staff. But don’t quote me on this one. He was passionate about every single little detail
Not really a question, but I'm really curious as to how the whole process of making a movie works. Basically what you said of who does what and how it works. How's the vibes in the studios? How do you find the people to work and how do you know who works on what? What makes you scrap those scenes and concepts that neevr make it into the final product, and how do you decide to bring them back (such as Shen's character, scrapped from the first movie, introduced in the second)? — wow haha lots of questions xD
The first step in making a movie is for someone in the industry to approach a studio executive and say, “I’ve got an idea”
Whether it’s for an original or a sequel, it doesn’t matter. Anyone can pitch this so long as they have the street cred and they’ve got a good working relationship with the studio exec.
If they pitch a movie, they should have 1) a theme (or message, if you will), 2) who the main characters is and what their arc is, 3) what is the world (is it fantasy? Sci-fi? Modern day? Which country? Etc.), 4) why that person is passionate about the movie/story idea
And 5) what the overall plot is. It should be able to be summed up in one sentence.
DreamWorks particularly likes irony in its titles, as you can see
Kung Fu Panda, How to Train Your Dragon, Boss Baby
This is called a high concept
You say the title and anyone in the world can get an idea of what that movie would look like
A high concept is hard to think of, but if you can do it, you’re probably on your way to a story that automatically has tension, and tension equals drama. Drama is what gets people to go to the movie theater :)
So a loooot of times these days, you need to also pitch the 6) high concept of what the movie is, and why it’ll be an instant draw for audiences
If the studio exec likes it, they pitch it to their boss. If they can pitch it without the documents that the original person used, even better. If they’re able to repeat the “high concept” easily to their boss, that boss will also automatically see the potential in it.
99% of movies die here
lol
(Sob)
The 1% that survive this point go into what DreamWorks calls “POD” phase. Something about productions in development for possible greenlight
This means the movie has NOT been greenlit yet.
In fact, KFP4 wasn’t greenlit until Jack Black signed his contract, and that took more than a year from what I understand.
(KFP4 couldn’t move on without its star, after all!)
The POD phase usually lasts 6 months or so. During that time, a director or a producer will be brought on, as well as a production designer and perhaps an editor. Definitely a screenwriter as well.
This small team hashes out more details of what the plot actually is, and how the movie can look visually
They’ll pitch this whole thing, usually about a 20-30 minute pitch, to the entire studio exec team.
The studio exec team is usually in a lot of the development team’s meetings, so the notes will be minor.
75% of movies die during this phase.
(I’m not joking)
Once the movie is greenlit, that’s when real production begins.
The storyboard team storyboards the entire movie. The edit team edits the storyboards together. Everyone watches the storyboard animatic “movie” (a movie made up entirely of drawings, because drawings are faster to produce than animation), and everyone in leadership watches it, then gives notes
This process repeats itself anywhere between 3-7 times (if you’re Disney feature, it can be like 8-11 times…)
Somewhere during the end of that time, as the story is tightened, the logic/plot starts to make more sense, the theme is woven in, the Layout Department comes in
They’re supposed to take the storyboards and expand upon the shots (the cinematography, the camera lenses, the compositions, the shot length, combining shots, etc.) to really reflect each sequence’s arc.
(Btw, every sequence “should” have an arc—starting with the MC feeling or being in a negative space, and ending in a positive space; then next sequence starting positive and ending negative, and on and on—this is how you get the “waves of drama,” otherwise the overall idea is “Why does this scene exist?”—I could go on FOREVER about that, but I’m getting tired haha)
As storyboards wane off and layout goes into full effect, taking over every sequence, the animation team starts to trickle in. As certain scenes are starting to get “locked” in layout, animation is able to take the models in every shot and start animating them. They’ll hook up action so that the flow of movement is smooth.
From what I’ve been told, experienced animators can get about “8-12 feet” of animation done every week. It is SUPER expensive.
Off and on during this entire time, the actors come in to record their lines
But the story isn’t actually locked-locked until the last minute, there are always changes. We had limitations though because it was very hard to get so many of our A-list actors in
We didn’t have access to them at all during the actor’s strike :/
But I’m glad they did strike—they and the writers all deserve better pay and treatment
Once the director “locks” the actor’s lines of dialogue, the animator tweaks their animation to fit the timing of that dialogue
This process can be repeated for weeks/months depending on the actor.
It’s amazing to watch. Mike Mitchell has a fantastic eye for detail with that, and our Head of Character Animation, Sean Sexton, was super awesome at guiding us through notes as well. He would say, “I think that we could go this way or that way with this part right here…” and make us feel like we always knew what he was talking about haha!
Some directors “grew up” in the industry as animators btw—such as Pierre Perrifel, the director of Bad Guys
So, naturally, they would have more notes during animation
I “grew up” in storyboards, so I have more notes during the Story/writing process
As the animation starts to get locked more and more, that’s when we bring in the music composers like Hans Zimmer and Steve Mazzaro
We show them what sequences or “reels” (reels consist of about 15 minutes of continuous sequences; there are 5 reels per movie)
And they start to compose
Repeat process until everything starts to go super in sync together
If there are any story/animation changes here, Hans Zimmer and Steve Mazzaro have to be made aware IMMEDIATELY.
They’re composing using digital tools I think, mostly? —not entirely sure about this part.
But for KFP4, the strikes ended right before Mike Mitchell, producer Rebecca Huntley, and I were supposed to fly to London in order to watch the score being recorded using real musicians
However when the strikes ended, Universal called Rebecca 15 minutes later (seriously!! It was that fast!!) and told us that we had to stay in Los Angeles and finish the movie and meet the same release date of March 8th (in the US)
So, we never got to go to London :’( I really wanted to work with Hans Zimmer and Steve Mazzaro haha… ;o;
But it was for the best anyway; because of Universal’s mandate, we had next to no time to finish the movie. We had a total of nearly 80 animators with us for a few weeks there, in October and November
80 animators is insane. For context, most animated features in this day and age have about 30 animators
And we would launch individual shots out of order, out of context. It was up to me and Mike, who knew the full story (only a few people had the full scripts), to give detailed context/subtext to the animators
During animation, the lighting and effects departments come in to do their magic
These are spearheaded by the production designer (in our case Paul Duncan, who was extremely detail oriented and had very strong opinions xD)
(He and I butted heads a lot during the whole process, but I think it’s good for filmmakers to do this, as what results usually leads to something better than what one person could have thought of.)
Btw in terms of butting heads—if you want to be able to survive in this industry in a leadership role, you have to develop a really thick skin
I read comments about myself early on lol and I’m like, I can’t do this, I’m not made of firm stuff like that, no one knows the real me, heck I barely know the real me, so I don’t know how actors do it. But anyway—it IS part of the job. So my take on it now is, If I’m going to be critiqued, I may as well go on with my motto of doing my best anyway, because at least the critique will be about my best efforts, and nothing else
I know so many directors and producers now in this industry as well as live action
They all go through this. It’s tough ;o;
But again—if you want to get into this industry—prepare yourself! Haha ;)
After lighting and effects are done, music wraps up here as well.
Then we go into image finaling, which is basically just making sure that there are no odd pixels out of place
About 20-30 people enter a theater every single time for Image Finaling, and all of us keep an eye on various parts of the screen
We’ll call out our notes about anything that may have been amiss
The timing should absolutely be locked now
Especially with the score as it is—I remember Steve Mazzaro was EXTREMELY PATIENT and professional with us even though Mike kept giving him changes in edit lol
As they were in London with all of their professional musicians with their amazing instruments waiting to record the music haha
We would be ON THE PHONE with Steve as he would say like, “So I should extend this part here by three seconds” or “Gotcha, take out 2 seconds here”
I can’t imagine the stress he went through with us
I will also say, to address an earlier note—I was not invited into the editing bay
I protested this a lot of course, but their compromise was to send me QuickTime videos of each sequence every single day around 5pm/6pm and say “Please give us your notes by EOD (end of day)”
I learned early on that this is just Mike Mitchell’s process though—he has had multiple co-directors before, and he never allowed anyone into edit with him
As it’s part of his usual process, it’s okay with me. It wasn’t personal, it was his way of working. All good.
But I agree with all of you about the pacing.
Any “idea” or “emotion” in a scene needs room to breathe; the audience needs time to register what happened and fully feel it.
Our Head of Character Animation, Sean Sexton, worked with Dean DeBlois on a couple of HTTYD movies I think? Sean told me that he was blown away when Dean would tell the animators, “No, we need more room here in this shot so that the music can really be felt”
But again, it depends on taste
Now the movie is finished; it’s even been sent out to print to be sent to movie theaters
And nowadays, this is when 30% of movies die.
Omg more questions haha xD
How do you decide the voice actors? Would you people go back to actual VAs as opposed to actors doing the voice acting? And how do you train them for it? (Because I guess voice acting is a bit different from live action)
We put together a list of 3-4 of our top picks of actors or voice actors (there is kind of a difference). For a tentpole movie like this, Universal (our parent company)’s mandate is for us to hire “stars”
This is NOT a proven thing, but apparently “stars” gets people to buy movie tickets.
Since I’ve been a follower of ProZD since years and years ago, I pushed hard to get him in. He’s hilarious, he’s Asian, he’s a pro voice actor, he has experience
But, no one agreed with me :(
I was however, able to convince (very easily lol) the team to talk to Ke Huy Quan and Ronny Chieng
Thankfully they agreed to join us
We don’t train actors how to do their jobs :)
It IS our responsibility to direct/guide them about the context/subtext of each line, though
Everyone who comes in is already a professional actor/voice actor ^^
Opinion on more serious tones and scenes for animated movies, like that one scene from Puss in Boots? Asking mostly because scenes like that are really something out of the norm, and honestly I can't really remember an animated movie that wasn't focused on comedy...
I FREAKING LOVE IT!!
Especially since so many audiences these days have grown up on more mature stories everywhere. I think in most bookstores for example, the manga/anime section takes up a majority of floor space HAHAHA
But here’s the catch: a lot of the people in charge of the finances of making a movie think that audiences don’t like these kinds of stories
I’m not sure why. Every time I’ve talked to an executive, they’ve told me that Yes they totally see the influence and impact anime has had on the world, but No we will not do that
It is the highest of miracles to me that Spider-Verse was made in America
No surprise to me that Arcane was made, since it originated in games; Riot knows how to be cool; and it was animated in France by a badass team of filmmakers
I was approached to be a Co-Director on another movie at a different studio. After they said “co-director” I clarified what they meant; like an equal director or someone who is below the main director? They said someone who is below the main director.
I told them “Thank you but no thank you; next time I want to be the main director. I don’t want to be in an arranged marriage anymore” (That’s a joke term that is actually used in this industry now)
As much as I respect Mike Mitchell, his taste and mine are 180 degrees apart lol
I need to be free
This is just speculation, but I wonder if Jen Yuh Nelson won’t come back because she enjoys the much darker themes that she can explore in Love Death + Robots
Not sure if I should ask this, but how often do the executives/higher ups step in to change or remove something from these movies? How much do they affect the production?
99% of the time. They step in 99% of the time, especially with newer directors
Mike Mitchell was untouchable for them
Chris Sanders, nearly so (he’s directing Wild Robot as you all probably know)
(Everyone at DreamWorks wanted to work on Wild Robot, including me )
Another risky question. Heard that in the industry there's many geeks, introverted people, and even neurodivergents. Is this true?
Absolutely true!!!
That’s why animation and live action are sooo much fun
All of the older generation (above me) were either influenced by Star Wars or Indiana Jones haha :)
I was influenced by Star Wars and Sailormoon
(Right now I’m on a Trigun kick. And I cry every single time during the last scene of the last episode of season one Haikyuu)
Do you guys make fanart of your own characters? Like that one Disney art vault?
I used to draw the characters I worked on all the time, because I was a storyboard artist!
We do on average about 70 drawings per day
Including backgrounds and camera movement and acting
What do you think of Kung Fu Panda 4?
I’m unsure… mostly because I need to work on getting my next job :O And that is taking a ton of time for prep (remember the list of things you need to have prepared to pitch to studio execs? Yeah… I gotta do that for multiple projects right now ;)
I will give you a political answer on that question, and read between the lines where you will
I think the crew did a fantastic job for real. With what information they had and the time constraints we had and the budget we had, I couldn’t be prouder of the people who have well deserved pride in their work and put 1000% and all of their heart and soul into their work. I will never belittle those people for loving the Kung Fu Panda franchise, because at every single turn, they worked hard, they gave us (the leadership) notes
How much of those notes were addressed is hard to say. Like, I can’t give you a percentage on how much “we” listened to the crew.
I had many of the same notes, so perhaps I was considered not so much leadership in the very beginning. I lost my temper multiple times because I wanted to stay truer to KFP1 and KFP2, but again, I was new, a “nobody” starting out in leadership
When we did interviews for the Art Of book, the interviewer (I forget her name)
She asked me how excited I am that Tai Lung is back
And I said, “I don’t want to talk about that.”
I repeated what a lot of our storyboard team said: If we were going to bring back Tai Lung, he should be brought back RIGHT. Not just as someone to be defeated immediately, or nostalgia bait.
I was, and still am, angry about how the writers brought him back.
One of my last notes to the executive team, because after our 2nd preview screening everyone asked “Why is Po going on this journey now?”
I pitched the idea that either Master Shifu or Po has a vision
That Shifu gets kidnapped by The Chameleon
Po sets out on the adventure in order to stop her; Shifu still gets kidnapped anyway because she’s manipulative.
Shifu is THERE AT THE END so that he can say good-bye to Tai Lung
The executives loved this idea
But… someone axed it.
Instead, the “vision” was turned into… Po has “a vision” during a nap
….. wants to know your favourite character?
And yea sorry to say this but i feel as Tai Lung was kinda underwhelming in the end. And if the film is trying to show that good can be found in bad people doesn't like Zhen achieve this making Tai Lung's inclusion unneeded?
My favorite character is Po… I love wholesome characters who are still flawed and have room to grow
Hahaha… poking holes in the story’s plot? Say that to the writers, they’ll tell you you’re wrong and don’t know what you want!
:)
(That’s what they told me)
would like to know why The Dagger of Deng Wa was included! It’s such an obscure reference. Did the weapons list on the KFP wiki have something to do with it?
That was Paul Duncan and his immaculate attention to detail
He wanted to bring it back :)
The writers rolled their eyes at me when I pointed out very early on—when Zhen was still human—that after she betrays Po and before Po goes to fight The Collector (The Chameleon), she needs to redeem herself
In their script, they had Po fighting The Collector, then suddenly Zhen swings in and sorta kinda helps him out. (She disappears during the fight pretty quickly though.)
I asked the writers, If we’re going to redeem Zhen, shouldn’t this be a bigger moment? And if we can’t do it during a big fight, shouldn’t it be a separate scene?
They told me they hate that kind of scene
I insisted upon it; they said, “Well, then it happens off camera.”
I repeated their words out loud in disbelief xD
I insisted again, and that’s when they sighed and said, “Fine, we’ll write a scene where Po and Zhen make up, but we won’t enjoy writing it.”
They did not write it
A month later while Mike was editing the storyboards, you know what he said?
“We’re missing something…”
The redeeming scene lmao
He had one of our associate producers write it; she wrote it in a day; it was a 3-page script
All of our storyboard artists were busy, so I volunteered to storyboard it in my free time
Mike loved it; he was ready to send it to layout and then animation
But I said, No, wait
It’s not done yet. Because this is all dialogue.
They should be fighting, physically and verbally
I got Trey Buongiorno to re-storyboard the whole thing so that they’re fighting
That’s when Mike finalized it
One of if not the best scene in the movie tbh.
I think… it’s not an earned scene, in the end, personally. I always wanted them to actually build up a friendship by overcoming actual obstacles together.
<3
Well, this is very impolitic of me to say haha
But I don’t think those writers will ever want to work with me again anyway :)
Wait so that actually didn't happen? i would of thought that would of been like basic writing or something. (I haven't seen the film which is why i say this lol)
Like your characters relationships gotta make sense!
It’s fine with me, they mostly work with Mike Mitchell as it turns out :O
I think it… was there on the surface, perhaps. But I’m not sure I ever felt their friendship
I think we should have gone further to really test their friendship
And build it up
But, the story was basically locked when I came on
The only real substantial thing I was able to contribute was taking Po out of that freaking box
And Zhen being redeemed… on camera
lol
I hope someday Trey Buongiorno can upload the fight scene he storyboarded between Po and the stingray
That was EPIC. For real.
I’m not gonna ask him though because I think there’s a long process of getting permission from the studio to do so
I’m actually a little surprised that Luca posted artwork with the human Collector
But him not taking down that artwork means, to me, that DreamWorks’ legal team didn’t go after him; which means I should be free to discuss a bit about the filmmaking decisions behind that time.
I have a question about the industry in general!
Let's say someone has the animation skill and know-how to get into a large studio like DreamWorks. They have a reel prepared and everything, and if it were to be submitted, they'd be brought on on the spot. But... They don't want to go to California. It's too expensive, and it's too far away to move to.
What does someone in this position do?
Take a class from someone at Animation Mentor (an online school) from a teacher who is currently working at a studio as well as teaching
This is a secret ingredient haha
The best way to network is to take a class from someone who is working in the industry and also teaching at the same time. Sean Sexton brought on a couple of his students to animate for us
I think most of our animators were WFH, but it may have been a special case for us as we were crunched for time and couldn’t make demands like “come to the studio to work” (again, at that time)
I think more and more work will be WFH though
It’s the new norm
…… Just is kinda shocked that humans got considered and wants to know how such an idea was reached?
Which i agree with because it almost feels wrong to me to have humans in Kung Fu Panda lol.
The hybrid animation idea is cool tho, kinda sounds like a reverse rodger rabbit
I’m not sure how humans got considered. No one ever answered me even though I asked. I think they themselves weren’t sure. My speculation is that it was to answer a question that every single studio executive will ask you when you pitch an idea for a sequel: “What is new about this idea that will bring audience members to the theaters to watch it?”
And hybrid is like… a go-to for some reason.
Why was a Corsac Fox chosen to represent Zhen instead of let's say a Polar Fox, Fennec fox or just a regular one?
What happened to Zhen's family and where are they at if alive at all and why was she abandoned.
What will be Zhen's Future In the Story and will she find her family and reunite with them at any point similar to how Po found his family, the pandas?
I’m not sure how humans got considered. No one ever answered me even though I asked. I think they themselves weren’t sure. My speculation is that it was to answer a question that every single studio executive will ask you when you pitch an idea for a sequel: “What is new about this idea that will bring audience members to the theaters to watch it?”
And hybrid is like… a go-to for some reason.
The Corsac Fox was chosen out of a list of Asian foxes because of its distinctive facial features
Which, yeah, I know…
Euni Cho, our main character designer, she’s the one who did those Nico Marlet-like sketches
Nico Marlet worked for Mike Mitchell for a week, but then he disappeared
Everyone wanted Nico Marlet to work with us again, but he refused.
I think by that point he just wanted to go to another studio
From my understanding, he wanted a change of scenery
Yeah, he’s a legend
Paul Duncan asked Euni and Seth St. Pierre to draw in “Nico’s style” as much as possible
Mike and I both liked the designs where she had prints on her fur
But I think Paul Duncan took over that area—again, he is very opinionated :)
What happened to Zhen’s family?
Omg. Sooo many people pitched ideas.
So many people.
But Jonathan Aibel and Glenn Berger also served as co producers on the movie… I think there was a lot of politics involved
I was never able to get a firm answer on this—I know that Darren Lemke pitched ideas, another of our writers Lillian Yu pitched ideas, the entire storyboard department and animation team pitched ideas; I pitched ideas
Again, SO. MANY. IDEAS.
All thrown out.
I have no idea the answers to #3 ^^;
I don’t know what the future of KFP is
But to be fair, if I did know, I would not answer that haha
(I really don’t know)
I think part of the fun is waiting for the answers that the filmmakers come up with!
Maybe one or more of you will be working on KFP5
We had so many people who grew up with the KFP trilogy, work on KFP4
Who knows?
with directors and their writers. Does like the director do any of the writing or do they like tell the writers an idea of what they want and then they need to figure it out?
Yes, there are some directors who write as well! Dean DeBlois is an example
The most powerful though is the writer-director-producer—like Christopher Nolan
Triple threat! XD