Marvel Upgrades (AkhilPDX)
Big thanks to Bang, Remus, Jazz, and Cyber for helping with this!
Thor’s speed calculations (done by Akhil):
Calc 1:
In “Journey Into Mystery (Vol 1 Issue 94)”, Thor flies from Earth to Asgard in “moments” after Loki, using his trickery, telepathically sends him a message to do so.
Asgard is but one of nine (ten including Heven), if not an infinite number of realms contained within Yggdrasil, with each one being entire universes.
Low end = Thor took 20 seconds to reach Asgard = 1.5 quintillion times FTL
Mid end = Thor took 5 seconds to reach Asgard = 6.3 quintillion times FTL
High end = Thor took 2 seconds to reach Asgard = 15.8 quintillion times FTL
The Marvel 616 Universe is at least 1 trillion light years in diameter (likely far higher due to the consistent statements of it being infinitely big). Even if we don’t account for the fact each realm has its own space and time (due to being above and beyond ordinary, universal laws of space and time), they should be beyond the 1 trillion light years scope of our universe due to Yggdrasil (delves deeper into Marvel cosmology).
1,000,000,000,000 light years = 5.87862537318361e+24 miles
5.87862537318361e+24/20 seconds = 1058152567173049800000000000 MPH or 1.579 quintillion times FTL
5.87862537318361e+24/5 seconds = 4232610268692199200000000000 MPH or 6.317 quintillion times FTL
5.87862537318361e+24/2 seconds = 10581525671730498000000000000 MPH or 15.793 quintillion times FTL
This feat should be completely usable as Thor is seen flying to Asgard in mere moments without the use of the Bifrost. It should not be lowballed or ignored due to a lower calc.
Mjolnir travelled through all 10 realms of Yggdrasil in a short amount of time.
Thor can dodge Mjolnir (Thor (1998) #7, Thor #144, Journey Into Mystery #121)
THIS IS ALL A LOWBALL BTW since:
The entire Marvel Universe is stated infinite in size
Marvel Universes
The Marvel Universe is a vast phenomenon. At a very minimum, it’s at least 2 trillion lightyears in diameter (assuming the Earth is in the middle of the universe). Depending on what “thought years” are, the universe could be far greater than just 2 trillion lightyears, even via finite statements for thought is repeatedly stated to be far faster than light. However, the universe is far more likely to be greater than a simple finite value due to the consistent statements of the universe being truly infinite. You could say that some statements might be hyperbolic or symbolic, but there are far more reliable statements from reliable sources such as Odin Borson, the Watcher, and Galactus that debunk this notion. The Living Tribunal states the universe is infinite. The Beyonder describes the 616 universe as a multiverse, being composed of an endless number of dimensions and myriad planes of reality. A single universe creates an infinite number of alternate realities / timelines every quantum moment over and over, AD Infinitum.
Most heralds (high-tier heralds like Thor, Hulk, Beta Ray Bill, Doctor Doom) would have infinite speed via this standard and some (Silver Surfer or Sentry) could have immeasurable speed.
surpasses the Big Bang (multiversal feat lowballed since it goes across all planes of reality of which there are an infinite number of)
The clash of two Mjølnir
Marvel Universe 1 Trillion Light Years - Avengers (2018) #26
Yggdrasil Universes - Thor #616, Loki Agent of Asgard #11
Hulk destroys a Universe - Hulk #126, recapped in Defenders #1
2 weak Thor’s clash rivals the Big Bang - Thor #439
Mjolnir crosses all the 9 realms - Thor (2020) #1
Yggdrasil above Space and Time - Thor (1998) #26, Journey Into Mystery #85 (Here’s a bit more about Yggdrasil by the way)
The entire Marvel Universe is stated infinite in size
All-Black the Necrosword
Before creation (Second Cosmos), there lived a God… his name was Knull. The Lord of Darkness. The progeny to Oblivion. As the Aspirant / Celestial War shattered the First Firmament, there was light. The First Firmament was the first universe, a universe transcendent to all creation, all multiverses. The first universe created by the One Above All.
Knull used All-Black the Necrosword to decapitate one of these Celestials.
Gorr found the sword. Used it to try to kill all gods across all of time and space via the Godbomb. Thor stopped it by absorbing the multiversal bomb into himself and killed Gorr but Gorr’s essence was drawn into All-Black. After he returned, he pulled a Zamasu and merged it into the universe, turning it into All-Black the Necroverse. In order to stop him, Thor has to unleash the full power of the God-Tempest within Mjolnir, the primal motherstorm so powerful that Odin at his best could only seal it away.
Thor:
- Shatters a small part of reality.
- Hurts Odin.
- A clash with another Thor spreads a wave of mystical energy across infinite planes of reality simultaneously.
- Shatters a root of Yggdrasil.
- Absorbs the Godbomb, a weapon capable of slaughtering every god across every timeline in the universe (INCLUDING SKYFATHERS) to the point that Eternity echoed with the wailing of the dying gods.
- Severed the arm off of Gorr the Godbutcher with Jarnjborn, who was already durable enough to block a God-Blast from King Thor, and a hungry Galactus was confident the God-Blast could kill him.
- Mjolnir has a universe-shaking attack called the Thermoblast.
- Bullrushes Galactus hard enough to shatter a part of his helmet.
- Can stalemate Classic Drax in strength, who has been stated that his soul is so strong that he's likely capable of destroying the Soul World, a dimension existing inside the Soul Gem. The Soul Gem contains an infinite dimensional multiverse, as big as the one the Soul Stone exists within.
- Knocks out the Phoenix Force with Mjolnir, and according to Shi'arian Goddess and God, Sharra and K'ythri, the Phoenix can burn and rebuild the universe and Thor can feel the flames of the Phoenix from galaxies away
- Harmed the Chaos King with his lightning, a being who Amadeus Cho claims has destroyed 98.76% of the Multiverse
- Thor can draw upon the magnetic forces of the galaxy,while weakened.
- Fought and defeated Surtur, Surtur has the power of the Eternal Flame, which Kid Loki claims would have the power to affect all Nine Realms and the Multiverse.
Hulk:
- Shook an infinite number of dimensions (lowball: multiversal+, highball: infinite dimensional / high hyper). For context though, he was in the Dimension of Crossroads.
- Hulk’s thunderclap reflects a universe-destroying attack.
- Shattered the time barrier.
- Punches a time storm.
- When split from Banner, channeled enough energy to destroy two universes.
- Trashed Nightmare’s realm.
- Channeled enough energy to destroy the universe, if not more as Strange says “everything”...
- Savage Hulk having sex with Umar was powerful enough to cause spacetime ripples across the very fabric of the multiverse (could be inferred to be Multi-Eternity via the context of the comic, therefore inflating the calc by an unquantifiably transcendent degree).
- Sends Fin Fang Foom flying through a dimensional barrier in the Dark Dimension with a thunderclap.
- Clashing with World Breaker Red She-Hulk obliterates an entire planet.
- Umar states that Hulk and Red She-Hulk are destroying the Dark Dimension, although this is most likely hyperbolic, and if not, an outlier, and even then, they’d have to be doing so over time.
- Scales to all of Thor
- Physically speaking, Hulk is slightly stronger than Thor. With that being said, he shouldn’t scale too all of Thor’s feats that were listed above but he should be able to replicate things like destroying a root of Yggdrasil or launching a big bang level attack.
Silver Surfer:
- Outflies the destruction of the Never Queen (which ends up with him almost traveling through time): Silver Surfer (2014) #13.
- Flies fast enough to tear the fabric of ether and space, letting him time travel.
- A weakened Surfer activates a device keyed to Thanos’ power level (Post-Annihilation).
- Norrin, while weak, fought Knull. For reference, Knull can one-shot a Celestial. Celestials are above Kubik and Kosmos, two sentient Cosmic Cubes.
Loki:
Beta Ray Bill:
- Fights evenly with Stardust, a herald of Galactus, knocking planets out of orbit, dimming stars, etc.
- Their fight in narration was rocking the Heavens and “shaking the firmaments of the universe”.
Hyperion:
- Survives being in the center of an incursion (the destruction of two universes). This feat can’t be debunked by saying “he couldn’t stop two planets from colliding, so he obviously can’t be low multi”. That is false as the narration states that the planets broke (likely via the force of Hyperion’s raw strength), causing both realities to be destroyed.
- Hits the Hulk hard enough to turn him back into Bruce Banner.
- Narration states Hyperions’ strength is nearly equal to Gladiator’s, who can rattle every remaining bone in the universe by punching Galactus.
Doctor Doom:
Jean Grey:
Sentry:
Blue Marvel:
Anti-Man:
Ant-Man:
Red Hulk:
Juggernaut:
- Gives World War Hulk a solid beating who could take on the Sentry who has the power of a million exploding suns.
- Nearly breaks the Hulks neck, who can empower a force-field that can hold back a Celestial.
- No-sells Thors’ God-Blast, and as mentioned before, a hungry Galactus was confident the God-Blast could kill him.
- Hits the Stranger hard enough to knock him down. For preference, the Stranger is a cosmic being that Thanos states to be on par with a nourished Galactus and was one of the many cosmic beings called to put a stop to Thanos w/ the Infinity Gauntlet.
- Claims a hit to his head from Mjolnir doesn't even tickle him.
- Thor wasn't able to harm him with lightning or physical force, and Thors’ lightning can hurt beings who exist on different dimensional planes and harm the Chaos King.
- Kept fighting despite being reduced to a skeleton by D’Spayre. D’Spayre at the time had absorbed the energy of Cyttorak, granting him the ability to warp the fabric of the universe and still couldn’t fully erase Juggernaut.
Scarlet Witch:
- Seemingly erases the Phoenix Force from existence (conceptual erasure) with the help of Hope Summers (it’s remaining energies brings mutant-kind back, reversing the events of M-Day).
- Creates a reality where she has kids, but then destroys it.
- Brings Quicksilver back to life.
- “No more mutants”.
- Shields against and overpowers Magik with a 1/5 of the Phoenix Force and then one-shots her.
- Passive force-fields powerful enough to block attacks from Phoenix Force hosts.
- Her Chaos Magic forms a yin / yang duality with the Phoenix Force.
- Scarlet Witch is a Nexus Being.
- Uatu explains what a Nexus is.
- Her being a Nexus why she could tap into the Life Force in order to cause multiversal havoc across infinite realities and infinite dimensions.
- While the Life Force seems like outside help, a more recent statement states that it was Wanda’s power which allowed for the events of M-Day.
- Chaos Magic stems from Chthon (an elder god who’s exponentially more powerful than even Odin himself), and is so mysterious, not even Doctor Strange knew it existed.
- Forcefully summons Dormammu (during the events of HoM).
- Scarlet Witch along with the help of several other sorcerers is able to BFR the Celestial Destructor (to the Outside??? [The Outside is a high outerversal realm transcendent to realms like the Superflow and the Neutral Zone / Exospace]). The Celestial Destructor was sent by the First Firmament to wreak as much damage to Multi-Eternity as possible.
- This was from the author notes but it also states that some parts were taken out during the editing process. There were no specific statements of her connection to the House, so is it possible that it’s not a thing? Wrong.
- Scarlet Witch was able to protect her friends from the passive, defensive hax of the House of Ideas. It was as if all creation was holding them back.
- The House of Ideas is the dwelling space of TOAA (The One Above All). If you’re in it, you gain access to anything true form TOAA (not aspects like the Fulcrum or Above All Others) has, which includes boundless AP and every single hax and superpower in the history of Marvel Comics which includes the past, the present, and the future. Essentially omnipotence.
Hercules:
Doctor Strange:
Gorr the God Butcher:
Thanos:
Black Bolt:
- Narration claims his strength is a close second to the Hulk.
Defeats Sphinx without the use of his voice, releasing what is described as infinite energy, who he himself states that he can destroy worlds and even a galaxy on a whim
- Staggers Galactus with a single shout.
- Powers the T-Bomb, a weapon that can create large explosions visible in space.
- Storm
- Magneto
- Ghost Rider
- Gwenpool
- Starbrand
- Nova
- Vision
-Silver Surfer claimed Visions’ strength approaches his own in their fight.
-Can slug it out with Ultron, his creator. Ultron specifically created Vision to be a threat to the Avengers, including Thor.
- Captain Marvel
- Genis-Vell
- Gladiator
- Nate Grey
- Adam Warlock
- Absorbed the energy of the Terrigen Bomb, which was going to destroy reality and engulf the universe.
- Legion
- Invisible Woman
- Reed states her control of what she can make invisible is equal to the size of the Moon.
- Her force-fields have shown to have repelled multiple heralds and high tier characters such as Blackheart, Silver Surfer, Thor, Hulk, the rupturing of space-time, etc.
- They can also be used offensively to repel and restrain enemies such as Juggernaut, and have even killed a Celestial from the inside out and punctured the arm off of one.
- The Runner
- Venom
- Carnage
Characters that are EXTREMELY important to Marvel Cosmological Scaling / Dimensional Tiering (mess with them at your own peril):
- Galactus
- Odin
- His fight with Infinity was shattering space and time. He was weakened and he was not in his home dimension. Odin gets weakened if he’s in another dimension.
- He made all of creation or all of the realms of the Asgardian World Tree.
- He can rip the fabric of Eternity.
- He can rip time and space apart.
- Space and time are nothing to one of Odin’s caliber.
- He defeats an amped Seth, who can destroy the World Tree, while weakened and hazy.
- He states that he can destroy planets and stars with ease.
- He destroys galaxies just by fighting. (In the same fight with Infinity btw.)
- Scales to the Odinsword, as he made it, and it can slice space and time, split the World Tree in twain, and kill amped Skyfathers.
- He nullifies fires that were consuming all reality
- He has lived through a thousand restarts of the world and has survived Ragnarok a multitude of times.
- Shakes the Nine Realms from a sword clash.
- He ripped the tenth realm, Heven, from the roots of Yggdrasil itself. The roots of Yggdrasil hold the liquid light or a liquid that embodies all of space-time.
- He makes a much more powerful Asgard from the very air itself.
- Mephisto states that, in his own realm, he is equal to Odin, who was depowered by Hela at the time.
- He helps balance the forces of good and evil, chaos and order, time and space. He can destroy the Multiverse--or create a new one.
- Stated to be in the same class as Galactus while weakened due to being in the Mortal Realm and lacking Odinsleep at the same time.
- He is a Primordial God.
- He was able to fuck the Phoenix-Force without dying.
- He made his own mythology, something includes stories like the Seed story, which, of course, encompasses the World Tree Seed.
- He threatens the World Tree itself just by fighting Jormungand.
- He created the World Tree, as Thor was punishing Yggdrasil.
- There are implications that Skyfathers have avatars, and because of Odin being able to be at multiple places at once.
- He can see the all-spanning infinite without being overwhelmed.
- When Ultron took Odin’s power, he had the God-Sight, which allows him to see everything. Knowing that Al-Ewing is the writer of this story, then everything means Multi-Eternity.
- Scales above Mjolnir, which can shatter worlds.
- Odin is in the same power class as Galactus.
- It was implied that he is able to destroy the Seed.
- Gwenpool
- Nyx
- Vision
- Eternity
- Franklin Richards
- Thor
- Kubik
- Thanos
- Anti-Man
- The Living Tribunal
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-Thor-98/Full?id=137405
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-2011
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-2003
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1987
all the hosts of Celestials, Aspirants, Reed Richards with prep, Exitar, Ashema, Arishem,