Mini Proof of Katsumata theory

PE version debunk: Fukubei died and Katsumata took over

1971-Fukubei dies (A staple of PE)

1972-Fukubei somehow appears on a show

Conclusion:Katsumata is Fukubei; Fukubei never existed.

It couldn’t have been plastic surgery, it’s the 70s and it’s a rural village. If he did have plastic surgery then it would have had to happen in half a year or so. I don’t believe it to be possible. Summer break was about to end so Katsu had to go back to school, his parents were absent from his life, he probably had no money, he couldn’t travel that far on foot. Even if he did get plastic surgery it wouldn’t look that exact, it’s the 70’s.

The hanging 100% took place in 71’ as Katsumata intentionally built the VR world to fake the year 1970 into being the year 1971 (hanging hill incident) so he could mask the actual 71’ incident, that being the failed hanging.

OG version debunk:

[20th Century Boys] - Friend's Identity Theory : r/CharacterRant

Read the original KT theory proposal, the most important section for debunking OG in my opinion is 2:

#2 Yamane didn't kill Fukubei in the science room in 2015

In Chapter 119, according to Kiriko, modern history will end in 2015 if Friend isn't stopped.
In Chapter 125, Yamane tells Otcho that he and Friend use a book for secret correspondence. A book that always stays in the library and will never be borrowed.
In Chapter 126, Otcho finds a note that fell out of the book which Yamane was referring to that says: "Meeting of the secret society. Time: The night of January 1st 2015, the last year of modern history. Place: The science room."
In Chapter 128, Yamane says that Friend will come to the science room to kill him and wants to keep it a secret.
In Chapter 138 when Kiriko asks Yamane about the New Book Of Prophecy, she says: "When the 'world president' is created..."
In Chapter 146, Takasugi says that the death of Friend was never written in the New Book Of Prophecy.
In Chapter 176, Fukubei cites the New Book Of Prophecy: "He will die and come back to life." and says: "The last day of our next summer vacation, a miracle will happen."
In Chapter 221 when the second Friend wants to take off his mask, Kanna tells him: "They performed plastic surgery. No doubt you look exactly like him."
In Chapter 232, In the New Book Of Prophecy, it says "...and then the world president was born."

But what does this have to do with Fukubei's death? Don't you think it's weird how an extremely intelligent guy like Fukubei puts himself in such an obvious dangerous situation? He doesn't wear a bulletproof vest, he doesn't have any bodyguards nearby, he wants to kill Yamane personally instead of banishing him through his connections, he wants to keep this meeting a secret, etc. Then we have the New Book Of Prophecy and the secret note saying: "The world president will be born." "Modern history will end in 2015."

As a child, Fukubei cites the New Book Of Prophecy: "He'll die and come back to life to life." What does this quote refer to? To the 1971 science room incident? Or to the birth of the world president and the end of modern history? But didn't Takasugi mention that Friend's death was never mentioned in the New Book Of Prophecy? What are the possible reasons for this seemingly contradiction?

First Friend's backstory was never shown in an objective narrative way. It was shown through the reading system the second Friend was using. It's all data that was saved from Friend's memory and Friend's memory is not fully correct as in the virtual attraction, the mansion of the hanging hill incident took place in 1971 instead of 1970. So maybe he never wrote "He'll die and come back to life" in the New Book Of Prophecy.
Friend deleted that section from the New Book Of Prophecy so he can convince the whole world that he died and came back to life.
Friend's henchmen never read the whole New Book Of Prophecy.

Friend's death was planned from the start. Friend needed to die in order to come back to life. That was the only way to become a world president and end the modern history. Fukubei knew that and that's why he sent one of his doppelgangers there that were created through either plastic surgery or human cloning.

The image above also shows Urasawa’s debunk of OG. Though this also technically debunks KT too, but I believe the intention is to debunk OG. I believe Kenji’s hypothesis is wrong in some regards. Basically-> This debunks OG. States PE. But doesn’t directly debunk KT.

Yet another debunk for OG comes from chapter 13 where Friend (in this version Fuku) ust willingly gives his name to a classmate. I know that in the OG version Fuku isn’t the most careful person but this is just straight up inconsistent. You’re telling me the same person who planned Bloody New Years Eve doesn’t wear bulletproof gear to a gunfight and also gives out his real name to strangers? Complete nonsense imo

Another loose piece of evidence can be found in chapter 125, for PE that is. In a flashback (or Otcho’s memory) we see a young Yamane mention the Book of Prophecy. Otcho questions how many know about it besides Yamane and Katsumata(in this case Fukubei)/Yamane’s friend. Yamane replies that one more person knows it. That person is confirmed to be Sadakiyo. How could Katsu not know about it? He practically follows Fukubei around in the PE interpretation yet he doesn’t know of the BoP. I don’t see a reason for Yamane to hide this either as he doesn’t reveal anyone’s name. Yamane is with Fukubei most of the time and he would have to meet Katsu often, there’s a very small chance that the two have never been in a conversation where BoP was mentioned (actually, there’s a scene in which both of them do talk about the NBOP so that’s debunked too). This isn’t the strongest piece of evidence but it does help in reaffirming my stance.

The stronger piece of evidence comes from when Sadakiyo came back from transfer school and Fukubei called him Sadakiyo, in front of Yamane. In the PE version this is explained by Fukubei doing this so he could hide the existence of Katsumata from Yamane. This doesn’t make sense. In the Kiriko flashback for example, which is considered real in the PE interpretation, we see Yamane in the same room as both Sadakiyo and Katsumata. So why would Fukubei try to hide Katsumata from Yamane if he’d just reveal it to him anyways? Makes no sense. (Chapter 176 btw){After carefully reviewing the chapter. It turns out Fukubei never called Sadakiyo Sadakiyo, however Yamane does, and Fukubei doesn’t correct him. Point still stands. Fukubei also asks if he wants to join them “again”. I don’t remember Katsumata ever leaving them so unless it happened offscreen, I’m not buying it.}

Also it’s interesting that Katsumata is the only member which doesn’t have a bond with Fukubei…like at all? Yamane and Sadakiyo sure have a strong bond and dynamic with him, yet Urasawa made no attempt at establishing even the bare minimum required of him.

There’s a bunch more for both PE and OG. I think PE is the harder to debunk one, OG has a few flaws which makes it hard to believe.

Possible Debunks to KT:

Katsumata’s parents would notice

No, they were shown to be absent, we never see them either. They are implied to be extremely neglectful. Either this or Katsu already brainwashed them in some sense.

How did Sadakiyo know Fukubei’s name?

Katsumata spread the fake name around to some people during childhood. This is something that the theory maker struggles to convey clearly.

Analyzing 20th CB is making my brain melt so here’s my best attempt to make a narrative on what happened so everything makes at least some sense

The official narratives/timelines should be:

Katsumata invents Fukubei in 4th grade~ to feel strong

Pawns Sadakiyo in 5th grade under guise of Fukubei

Pawns Yamane in 5th grade (could be earlier than Sada, still yet to determine when the events in chapter 43 took place)

At this point no one in the school talks to him. He might still be known as Katsu in class but nobody refers to him; it’s likely that he’s already known as Fuku. It’s honestly a mix up; this is by far the most ambiguous part. {correction, second most ambiguous part}{extra correction, at this point he’s most likely known as Fukubei (Hattori) by most if not all, though no one pays attention to him anyway}{Extra extra correction, chapter 151 kind of confirms my statements. Konchi, Mon, and Keroyon can’t remember a single thing about Katsumata. They don’t know which class he’s in, nobody remembers what he was like, no one knows how he died, and no one knows the details of his funeral (this is more so for the rumor spreading segment). It’s also likely that one of them was in Katsu’s class so that makes it all the more believable that no one can remember Katsumata.}

Yamane doesn’t know about Katsu since he’s in a different class. Katsu made sure that Sada doesn’t know about him through isolation tactics and making sure that Sada stays a loner (and daydreams in class, etc)

6th grade rolls around, time for the biggest headache I’ve had yet.

Sada goes to a new school.

1971 lie day, Sada goes back to the old school to see his only Friend, that being Fukubei. He supposedly didn’t move very far, far enough to attend a new school but not far enough to be too far from the old one.

Fuku spreads a rumor on the day of the carp dissection that Katsu had died. Rumor works extremely well. Katsu is killed off in everyone’s mind. Yamane and Sada have no clue who that is, also Sada doesn’t even go to the school anymore. Yamane is basically Fuku’s dog at this point. {Confirmed by Donkey my goat}

Events of 1971 happen, Sada is there, Yamane too.

The Donkey problem arises. Did Donkey see Fuku?

It’s possible that he didn’t see him, the lighting in that shot isn’t the lighting in the events of the story since Urasawa had to make it more readable. Doesn’t the VR confirm it? Probably, I’d even say most likely so. It doesn’t really interfere with much though. Either Donkey was fear induced to not talk about it or he simply forgot it (or didn’t think it connected to Friend), thus he didn’t tell it to adult or child Kenji. Didn’t Donkey say that Fukubei would be the bad guy? Sure, but that was a conversation he had with Kanna in the VR, it’s not too credible. Who knows.

Sada goes back to his old school soon after. Yamane and Fuku stay.

Everything else is just as it happened, no need for further explanation.

Reminder: This was a rural town in 60’s-70’s Japan (more specifically 69-71). Politics were turbulent; the records kept in a rural school could be influenced fairly easily, I doubt Katsu would have a hard time deleting his past or changing it, similar to how Johan managed to do it in East Germany (turbulent times yet again)

Fukubei has hair which goes behind his ear, Katsumata doesn’t

Haircuts exist, also Urasawa isn’t always consistent with things like that. Take a look at Friend’s hair in chapter 6, where he once again doesn’t have hair behind the ears. We also only see Katsumata in inconsistent memories and VR, both of which Katsumata made intentionally to deceive people into thinking there are two people.

Sadakiyo and Katsumata have different shoes/shirts/etc

No, they don’t. Sadakiyo witnessed the lie of 71’ [prob]; if he’s shown to wear different clothes then it’s purely because he wore something different that day.

Doesn't Katsumata make the final pages of the NBOP while Fukubei is present?

No, that’s Sadakiyo. As shown by his plan of moving to Mars. Also nothing is said about hating aliens in the version Sadakiyo wrote, so it aligns character wise as well. About the anti-proton bomb, we don’t know if Sadakiyo actually wrote it or not, it could have been Katsumata.

Kiri flashback shows Fukubei and Katsumata

Kiri was heavily drugged when she was with Friend. Friend most likely brainwashed her like he does with everyone else in the series, Kiri isn’t a reliable narrator. (Rainbow Kid, the drug that Friend mass produced, literally alters memories of the past.)

VR has Fuku and Katsu (generally any problems in VR)

VR is made by Katsu. And no, it’s not a memory reader.

In 21st CB we see Kanna accessing Sadakiyo’s memories; in those memories we distinctly see Katsumata and Fukubei as separate people (at least Kanna believes so)

Few explanations

We never see both Fukubei and Katsu at the same time, thus it’s not confirmed that they’re two separate people. (Weakest piece of evidence) (the most simple piece of evidence)
Sada was heavily drugged by Katsumata, similarly to Kiriko. Funnily enough, the only two people who were drugged directly by Katsu also happened to be the only two people who distinctly remember both Katsu and Fuku being two different people, really makes you wonder. (Very strong piece of evidence against it)
Kanna’s powers are really weird. They’re also most likely connected to the VR; the VR shows fake Fuku, and the events in the current VR exactly match what just happened in Kanna’s mind, so most likely she’s just seeing what happening in VR. (Fairly strong piece of evidence)
Pick and choose which one you believe in. Either Kanna is A)Seeing Sada’s memories. B)Seeing Sada’s false drugged memories. C)Seeing VR current events. Personally I’d go with C since it buffs Friend in outsmarting; in terms of validity I’d say B>===C>=A.

Wouldn’t Kiriko recognize Fukubei (Katsumata) when he was trying to seduce her?

No, as mentioned, one of the key points of 20th CB is that memories are inconsistent. Kiriko saw Fukubei, approximately…one time…How do you expect her to remember a face from 17 years ago that she saw once. She was also in emotional turmoil at the time, as planned by Friend. PE can’t support this either though which is the funny part. The only way PE can be canon is if you believe that Katsumata somehow got plastic surgery to look like Fukubei (I don’t think it’s possible, reasons are listed above). So that would mean he also looks like Fukubei, so Kiriko would see him either way lol. If you suggest that Katsumata could have gotten plastic surgery then KT Katsumata could have done the same thing! The thing is, it doesn’t really matter too much. We know that eventually Kirko found out about Fukubei being Friend, however we don’t know when. Maybe she knew from the start and Friend was manipulating her and guiding her. Maybe she was severely drugged with Rainbow Kid until she remembered, and then Friend guided her even more. It doesn’t matter.

How does Kiriko find out that Fukubei is Friend?

Rainbow Kid alters memory. Friend had an entire factory built specifically for making it.

End notes regarding Fukubei/Hattori: the original theory maker claims that Fukubei/Hattori isn’t his real name since its first mention is by Kenji who barely remembers his classmates. This isn’t true…As cool as it would be to know that Fukubei/Hattori is a fake name, there’s hardly any point to it, or coherence, outside of outsmarting. Let me explain my many many dilemmas with this problem. Btw when I say “not his real name” I mean that he himself didn’t come up with it.

We know that Hattori is a real name that Katsu made up (oxymoron I know), this is due to Chou and Manj (he keeps trying to debunk KT smh). Chou found Fuku’s surname “Hattori” and he wrote it down on a sticky note in his journal. So Hattori is eliminated…..Kind of……See Friend probably tampered with the school documents since we know he planned Chou’s assassination. And nowhere does it mention Fukubei (which actually could give it some credence). So realistically Chou could have just gotten manipulated. Another piece of evidence which I always found strange in the theory makers interpretation is the Hattori mask. Why would Hattori wear the Hattori mask if not for that reason??? I don’t agree with the theory maker either on the point that Kenji would figure out his identity instantly. First of all, Kenji can’t remember most of his classmates, second of all Fukubei was the definition of a background character, third of all who in their right minds would make that connection, Friend was seriously expecting a little too much of Kenji (tbf Friend most likely just wanted to torture Kenji further by making the mystery obvious). But the nail in the coffin is Manj. When Katsu comes in to see Manj he refers to himself as Hattori. Honestly idk why I’m even discussing Hattori, it’s quite clear that’s a name that Katsu made up. Fukubei on the other hand is a big big dilemma, currently I haven’t found a source which confirms that it’s a fake name. Kenji is the first person to call him that. Sada calls him that in PV and VR but both are equally faked. Though, I will say this, PV is much more reliable than VR. I’d say based on this, Fukubei is probably a fake name that Katsu came up with.

In conclusion— Hattori=Katsu made it up. Fuku=We don’t know, think what you want.

Now that I’m thinking about it, this doesn’t really go against what the theory maker said too much…

Feel free to still use PE, call it canon, sure. In my opinion Katsumata Theory is much more canonical and coherent, but again, this is all just my opinion, it’s very hard to definitively debunk something, though I do think the 1972 evidence is quite solid.

If you have any complains, my discord is .clouds__

Special thanks to Cookie-Cutter, he basically inspired the entire PE debunk.