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100 FRLV Change is Possible CCI FQE SWG & Marcus 20111104
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Change IS Possible!

From On-Campus to [More] Online


Counter-Counter-Implementation (CCI) Strategies

Steve Gilbert’s Fundamental Questions Extended (FQE) 


Steve Gilbert with Jane Marcus
Friday, November 4, 2011
2:00 pm (ET)

This Home Base (Google Doc) Web Page:

    Session Description 

Case Description Guildelines    Case Description for Discussion

Resources, Links    Schedule/Plan

TLT-SWG Blog Posting

Text Chat Transcript


  • Jane Marcus, Stanford Univ.
  • Steve Gilbert, TLT Group 


At most colleges and universities today, many people feel pushed toward online education -- faster and with less clarity of purpose than they find comfortable [understatement?].  Steve Gilbert and Jane Marcus discuss how to “innovate” more comfortably and effectively  when pressed to move from courses that are mostly campus-based toward courses that have more online elements.  They will explain their emerging approach and apply it to a case study.

They will recommend strategies and activities based on their combined experience with several colleges and universities - from inside, and as consultants - and by adapting and extending their previous work:

  • Counter-Counter-Implementation Strategies - work of Peter Keen, et al.
  • Marcus’ doctoral and related research:  "Diffusion of Innovations and Social Learning Theory:  Adoption of the Context Text-Processing System at Stanford University”
    "...adoption is a function of available resources, the perceived value of the innovation, and communication with other adopters. Her [Marcus’] dissertation research provides empirical evidence in support of the model, indicating that social/contextual variables are as important as resources in encouraging adoption of technology" - from “Creating a Campus Culture to Support a Teaching and Learning Revolution,” by Dorothy A. Frayer,  CAUSE/EFFECT journal, Volume 22 Number 2 1999.

Innovation and Players

We’ll describe the innovation that is being considered and then identify who the key players are who need to be at the table to be part of the project.  We’ll ask participants to explain why they believe the “players” we identify as needing to be “brought to the table” are or are not essential, could be omitted, and those who might, in fact be missing.  

Public and Private - Values, Goals, Agendas
- “Loyal Opposition” vs. Subversive Counter-Implementation

We’ll examine the values that must/can be part of open, “public” discussion, as well as the values and other info that is likely to remain “private” or part of the “sub-text.”

We’ll consider how to elicit and build on the public statements of institutional [and less widely held and/or applicable] values for each of the representatives at the table as well as the private/personal/political goals of the various participants.  The interplay between these two perspectives determines who serves as legitimate, loyal opposition or truly subversive "counter-implementers" during subsequent implementation.

What do we mean/need by a “case”?    

See also Template for Small Group Cases - More detailed than necessary for this purpose

We don't require/expect a commitment about IMPLEMENTING our recommendations for this particular case , but it will help to  have a real college or university in mind to shape our recommendations more realistically to meet the case’s described conditions.

See template for small group cases [more detailed than needed for this session 11/04]

  • Size of institution, structure - institutional context (rural, commuter, public, private,..)
  • Who is initiating this activity?  Role, number, …
  • Purpose, “Presenting Problem” - elements of technology that are either part of the problem or solution
  • Timing - urgency, deadlines
  • Why?  Pressure - source, nature
  • Resources - available, limitations

Twitter/Email message (sample)

[Twitter size version <140 characters - Ideal to have Tweet for marketing and another Tweet for distribution DURING the online session.]





TWITTER HASHTAG: #fridaylive


  Resources & Links


Additional resources specific to today's session

   More with the TLT Group


1:55 pm

Orientation - David McCurry, TLT Group 

Standard slides and polls incl. 

  • Poll - Who are we today?
  • Poll - How did you learn about this event? 

2:00 pm

Introduction -  Steve Gilbert, TLT Group / Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group

  • Introduce session topic and presenter(s) 
  • Encourage participants to engage in text chat only in so far as they are comfortable - "If text chat section distracts you, cover it with a paper post-it!" 
  • OPTIONAL:  Explain, introduce "Voice of the Chat" -  
  • OPTIONAL:  Encourage/Enable participants to use microphones
  • OPTIONAL:  Poll - Opening Poll to gauge interest in topic?? 

2:05 pm 

Conversation - Slides for Steve Gilbert & Jane Marcus

  • Context for this Session - This is a beginning... Like/Unlike 1990s
  • TLTR Approach - Updated to TLTR2.1?
  • Introduce Case
  • Apply TLTR2.1 to Case
  • Next Steps/Extermission
  • Closure, Afterthoughts

2:55 pm

Closing   Steve Gilbert, TLT Group

Final Official Comments;  Reminders about TLTG resources & services

  • Invitation to future Friday Live! (preview of upcoming)
  • Check FridayLive! info and register often!   Tell your friends and colleagues 
  • Invitation to Presenter(s) for Closing Comments
  • Post in text chat:
    FridayLive! Blog   twitter hashtag #fridaylive
  • Ask:  What additional topics, presenters, interviewees do you suggest?


3:00 pm

Afterthoughts Session    [15-20 mins]  

Continuing informal iiscussions with presenter/facilitators

Encourage participants to try using their microphones (w/ guidance if for first time)


3:30 pm

(at the latest) -  Final Adjournment

Happy Weekend!

Text Chat Transcript November 4, 2011

David McCurry, TLT Group: (11/4/2011 13:27) Welcome to Friday Live!

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (13:52) Hi Bill!

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (13:54) I'm going to send a reminder now.

 Sonya Kirkwood: (13:55) yes

 Bill Vilberg: (13:55) Here and on this screen. I hear you!

 Karin Thomeier: (13:55) Hi Steve

 Karin Thomeier: (13:55) Glad to be here. Still working on my mike

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (13:56) Hi Karin!

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (13:57) Good afternoon, warm greetings from St. Croix

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (13:58)  Hi John. Rub it in... ;-)

 Karin Thomeier: (13:58) Hello, from Memorial Universit in Canada (st. John's)

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (13:58) I think we need to do a live presentation from St. Croix. John, an invite (and funding) gladly accepted!

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (13:59) Well, we can all wish...

 suehellman: (13:59) Hi from sunny and foggy Surrey, BC

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (13:59) I've heard.

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (13:59) Yes...

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (13:59) thanks.  invitation, no problem.  funding, priceless?

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (13:59) mouth full of popcorn.

 Bill Vilberg: (13:59) Had to log back in. Machine error.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:00) Popcorn. I didn't see the popcorn!

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:00) 570 310 0130   263142#

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (14:02) Looks fine

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:02) Hi Sue.  Glad to see you!

 suehellman: (14:04) Hi Steve -- always look forward to these sessions

 Sonya Kirkwood: (14:04) I work at Sinclair Community College library - hoping to get more insight on support for online students

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (14:04) Welcome everyont.'

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (14:04) or.. everyone...

 Lucy MacDonald: (14:04) Lucy from Florida State College Jacksonville - Online faculty

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:04) Hi Cindy!  So glad to see you

 Kelli Prejean: (14:04) I'm in the Center for Teaching and Learning at Marshall U in Huntington, WV

 Ilene Frank: (14:05) Lucy, hey from Ilene in Tampa

 Cynthia Russell: (14:05) I'm at The University of Tennessee Health Science Center in Memphis, TN

 Lucy MacDonald: (14:05) Hi, Ilene. found 2 new sites GREAT. for iPad for Medical schools from the students point of view!

 Lucy MacDonald: (14:07) Cynthia - found a great site called

 Ilene Frank: (14:07) Lucy, thanks!

 Lucy MacDonald: (14:08) STUDENTS

 Bill Vilberg: (14:09) HERE!!!

 Cynthia Russell: (14:09) Good to see all you as well ... thanks also for the website ideas

 cbradley SCC NC: (14:10) Hi, Carol Bradley SCCNC - Sorry my connection time was very slow tonight from Italy

 Cynthia Russell: (14:11) another good iPad for med students - which is from Univ of CA, Irvine - they're in the 2nd year of an iPad initiative with medical students

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:12) Jane's dissertation:  Individual adoption... WITHIN organizational context

 Lucy MacDonald: (14:12) Cynthia - this is the article that I saw - the 2nd year students were excellent

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:14) Hi Carol.  Glad you can join from Italia!

 cbradley SCC NC: (14:15) Could someone provide a synopsis of speaker's information? I'm hearing only a bit of the conversation now and then.

 Lucy MacDonald: (14:16) iPad is blending the lines of on campus vs online

 Bill Vilberg: (14:16) Happy Anniversary TLTR!!!!

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:16) A lot of things are "permanent beta"

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:16) @ Carol I'll try

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:17) H Ed was experiencing consequences of internet boom in 1990s

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:18) Yes, IBM was big supporter.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:18) TLTR was helpful b/c most people weren't prepared to deal with whAt was coming at them.  Money WAS available.  Now money is NOT available

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:19) Key elements:  there was money and technology then  encourage experimentation not clear what the goals were

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:19) Lots of the experiemntation didn't take.

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:19) THEN - lots of tech, money, fluidity, lack of clear directin lack of clear preferences based on experience

 Lucy MacDonald: (14:19) 1990's developing Best Practices.

 Karin Thomeier: (14:19) Faculty still had the analogue mindset back then

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:19) now sense of where we might go.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:20) TLTR built relationships.  Now need TLTR to collaborate in order to solve problenms

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:20) NOW -  less money, less fluidity of tech arriving but more fluidity of tech available,  still lack clarity of direction, but now have more people with personal prefs based on experience

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:20) no

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:20) I'm trying to capture what's said in chat room esp for Carol who's in Italy

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:22) Information is accessible without the middle person or gatekeeper (=doctor, teacher).

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:22) Transition isn't the goal, but it is the reality

 Lucy MacDonald: (14:23) Faculty development is still an issue.

 Kelli Prejean: (14:24) Our online offerings have grown and grown without a real conversation about curriculum or how enrollment in online courses might impact f2f courses, so we're backtracking now.

 Joy Mark: (14:24) We're (VPAA & I) are struggling at our school moving faculty toward an acceptance of student-centered learning, which I believe is essential for success in a hybrid or online environment.

 suehellman: (14:24) sound keeps cutting out and in

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (14:25) Steve's audio is cutting out.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:25) Steve - lost you

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (14:25) also learner/learning occurs w/o f2f cues

 Ilene Frank: (14:25) Yep, it's cutting in and out

 Jane Marcus: (14:25) I'm getting breaks in the audio too

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (14:25) Sorry for the interruption.

 suehellman: (14:25) no sound

 Sonya Kirkwood: (14:25) audio gone

 Karin Thomeier: (14:25) all sound gone

 Steven Grindle: (14:25) no sound

 Bill Vilberg: (14:26) I love that I can continue to hear someone typing when the voice cuts out.

 Joy Mark: (14:26) yes

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (14:26) dave yes

 cbradley SCC NC: (14:26) Hearing you

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:26) I hear you

 Bill Vilberg: (14:26) Hear you David.

 Sonya Kirkwood: (14:26) audio  back

 Ilene Frank: (14:26) I can hear you Dave

 Kelli Prejean: (14:26) can hear you

 suehellman: (14:26) yes, David

 Karin Thomeier: (14:26) Yes, I can hear you David

 suehellman: (14:26) Here's my response to the first 'Change is Possible' webinar -- first draft

 suehellman: (14:27) forgot link

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:27) I listened to a fascinating TED talk - not new - by Chris Anderson yesterday - called How web video powers global invention - very powerful....

 Bill Vilberg: (14:27) Don't have a microphone icon available. Can I get that?

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:27) We lost internet briefly here at TLTG world Headqtrs

 Bill Vilberg: (14:28) I have a microphone, but have lost presenter status.

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (14:28) Bill, click on the mic icon to activate the mic.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:29) back

 Bill Vilberg: (14:29) I cannot get past the Adobe Flash authorization to use my mic.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:29) Yes - nice - and people are available to one another in ways that were not possible before.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:29) I will use the chat box.

 suehellman: (14:30) Availability doesn't confer the skills to make good use of these resources.

 Ilene Frank: (14:30) Very nice though that we don't have to wait for the IT department to bless us to do things. We can try stuff.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:31) WIld west: PCs and Apples connecting to the network.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:31) @Ilene - yes - now everything is decentralized

 Bill Vilberg: (14:31) Now smart phones and iPads on our wireless.

 Ilene Frank: (14:33) P.S. on Frugal Innovations and bookmarks... I saw someone using  QR codes on their bookmarks. Not sure if TLT bookmarks did that yet!

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:33) someone pls post the URL for the Keen article?

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:33) Some ideas are dumb and should be resisted.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:34) Difference between subversion and loyal opposition

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:35) What people can say publicly or privately

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:35) JM:  Diffusion of Innovation - classic book

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:36) JM:  think about people who are important for innovation - "inner circle" "other circles"  "outer circles"  "overlapping circles"

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:36) public role vs private agendas

 Steven Grindle: (14:36) Professionalism includes knowing the difference between opposition and subversion.

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:37) JM:  important to  gather, share both public and private info


 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:37) Very intense process requiring good people skills and a lot of reflection

 Bill Vilberg: (14:38) Circles: Who should make the decision? Who should be at the table when the decision is made? Who should be able to speak up about the issue? Who should be informed that the decision is being made?

 Bill Vilberg: (14:39) University of Miami is "The U"!!!!

 Steven Grindle: (14:39) I think it is a big mistake to assign the quality of opposition or subversion to a person rather than a person's behavior regarding a particular idea.

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:40) JM:  The "YOU" who is going to gather/share/try to influence the public AND private RELEVANT views

 cbradley SCC NC: (14:40) Sound spotty again.

 Charles Ansorge, University of Nebraska, Lincoln: (14:40) It's great if the energy is at the top.  Unfortunately this is not always the case.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:41) @Steve Grindle - I agree.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:42) What happens when the "team" is trying to accomplish something that is against the institutions goals?

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (14:42) until 'official' acceptance, even loyal opposition may be seen as 'subversive'

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:42) Need to identify inner team

 Bill Vilberg: (14:43) For example, on-line learning if the institution has made a decision not to support it.

 Charles Ansorge, University of Nebraska, Lincoln: (14:43) A 3-5 member steering committee was a good idea for our campus.  This is the group that did the planning and moved an agenda forward.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:43) Charles: Can you give an item or two from your agenda?

 suehellman: (14:45) Lin?

 suehellman: (14:45) sorry - Link to the slides please?

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:46)

 Charles Ansorge, University of Nebraska, Lincoln: (14:46) We created communities of practice that were consistent with our agenda.  We had one COP that focused on disgtance education.  We had another concerned with faculty developent.  We had another that was concerned with learning management systems.  Does this give you an idea of things in which we were interested?

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (14:46)

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:48) Can you say more about the challenging conditions?

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:48) are the challenging conditions more local or global?

 Bill Vilberg: (14:49) Primary challenging conditions: Faculty is VERY conservative. Lots of walls between 8 schools/colleges.  Status quo is OK, so changes are hard to justify.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:49) ok

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:49) Demographics of students? traditional college age vs non-traditional?

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:49) residential vs commuter?

 Bill Vilberg: (14:50) Traditional college students, primarily.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:50) Primarily residential.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:50) ah - then this all makes sense.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:50) why change?

 Joy Mark: (14:50) sounds very much like what's going on at our institution right now

 Steven Grindle: (14:50) At Norwich U. I find that many teacher are willing to give technology a try but need MUCH help.

 Joy Mark: (14:50) our change is motivated by lack of classroom space

 Bill Vilberg: (14:50) Looking at improving learning by offering more material outside of classes.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:50) I think that faculty would ask this question.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:51) I love the idea of "flipping" classes, but no one is willing to consider that.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:51) If it ain't broke, why fix it...

 Bill Vilberg: (14:51) Taking some of the lecture material out of class.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:52) inverted classroom?

 Bill Vilberg: (14:52) Putting discussion into the classrooms.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:52) Recording that material.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:52) Using Kahn Academy.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:52) Using TED talks.

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (14:52) are lecture-only classes 'broke'?

 Bill Vilberg: (14:53) The other faculty don't know what they are doing.

 Bill Vilberg: (14:53) Restating that...

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:53) We learn in a social environment.  We learn from other people.

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (14:53) trying it out in secret, easier to apologize than get approval first

 Bill Vilberg: (14:53) The majority of faculty don't know what the innovators are doing.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:53) ahhh

 Ilene Frank: (14:53) Lecture-only might not be dead - but if you think about treating f2f time as absolutely precious - not to be squandered - it can change your mind about what happens in the classroom

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:54) @ Jane M. - this has definitely been my experience.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:54) peer to peer enthusiasm

 Charles Ansorge, University of Nebraska, Lincoln: (14:54) I don't believe that lecture-only classes are " broken" but they are probably endangered.  A lot depends upon the area.  Lectures, I think, work better in some areas than in other areas.

 David McCurry, TLT Group: (14:54) Daily Riff article about flipped classrooms.

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:54) Key question:  "Why bother?  Who cares?"

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:54) innovations need to be consistent with the local culture

 Bill Vilberg: (14:54) Probably need to have an annual "technology day"?

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:55) incremental change is a place to start.  Frugal Innovations

 Bill Vilberg: (14:55) Had Lunch and Learn activities and could start those up again, where faculty shared what they were doing.

 Charles Ansorge, University of Nebraska, Lincoln: (14:55) Having a "tech day" on a campus is a great idea.  It's worked at our campus and continues to generate interest year after year.

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (14:55) is great site of great lectures

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:55) I have done cracker barrels - sort of like a tech day - but shorter.

 Ilene Frank: (14:55) One way to sneak up - ask all faculty to post syllabi online... say... in the university's LMS - small step

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:56) Definitely helps spread the word.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:56) Identify where the pressure is coming from

 Bill Vilberg: (14:56) Board wants change. Therefore administration wants change.

 Steven Grindle: (14:56) I 'sell' online gradebooks and combining different sections of classes to faculty to get 'my foot in their door' to open them up to technology.

 cbradley SCC NC: (14:56) Recording lectures means, as in online courses, that students must take more responsibility in the learning process, doesn't it? This is a goal, but are the students ready?

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:56) nice, Steven

 Bill Vilberg: (14:57) Faculty? Students? Admin?

 suehellman: (14:57) Perhaps there is some need to make it 'easier to care'

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:57) @cbradley - our students LOVE recorded lectures (we use narrated PPT converted to flash).

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:57) online grade books vs recording lectures?  which is closer to what's going on?  who cares?

 Charles Ansorge, University of Nebraska, Lincoln: (14:58) If the Board wants change then initiate a grant program to get faculty to try new ideas.  If they get the grant they must share with colleagues on a tech day.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (14:58) @Chuck - my former dean did this when I first came - it was a roaring success - faculty wanted the $$ for travel to conferences.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (14:59) @Chuck - Money where the mouth is


 Charles Ansorge, University of Nebraska, Lincoln: (15:00) @Jane.  I've obtaind a number of grants to develop materials for my classes and shared the ideas with colleagues.  I was happy, my students were happy, and I got to travel to some conferences to learn more about ways to use technology to improve teaching.

 cbradley SCC NC: (15:00) Yes, I agree the students may like the recorded language, but isn't this a move toward independent study? That is wonderful, but, as in online course - I teach online -, it seems to me that this assumes that studens can and will take on more responsibility for their own learning.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:00) @Bill - who has more institutional leverage - faculty or satisfying students?

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:00) @JaneH  Great question

 Bill Vilberg: (15:00) @cbradley: Faculty, definitely

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:01) Ah - then I would focus on what will make faculty lives easier.

 Steven Grindle: (15:01) I think that integrating technology into effective teaching is like a service, no less complex than delivering any other valuable service

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:01) So student enagagement isn't a powerful lever?

 Bill Vilberg: (15:01) But... students wishes are starting to be voiced and their requests are being met.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:01) Also, appeal to their sense of what is good teaching - perhaps a higher sell.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:01) more difficult sell, that is.

 Karin Thomeier: (15:02) Numbers of students have pull

 Bill Vilberg: (15:02) I don't know whether student engagement is a powerful lever. Maybe a faculty survey to see what drives them in their course planning and design?

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:02) @Bill - interesting - that may drive things.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:02) Possible.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:03) @Bill - if a few instructors start using gradebook, students will learn on other instructors

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:03) same might happen with posted narrated lectures.

 Ilene Frank: (15:03) Jane, I agree. If you can get faculty to start putting some info about the course online, students will soon come to expect it.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:03)

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:03) I'd love feedback about the flipbook

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:03) And on Dec. 16, 2011 Friday Live will be: Understanding and Working with Student Resistance to Active Learning  at 2pm ET Anton Tolman, Utah Valley University

 Joy Mark: (15:04) Our faculty argue that students don't like the online environment, but without being able to give clear reasons why.

 Bill Vilberg: (15:04) Student pressure has driven much of our Blackboard adoption. 60% of courses are really "active". 90% of undergraduates us it in one or more courses.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:04) I'd like yo have you two write about this "way of thinking"

 Bill Vilberg: (15:04) But Blackboard still is a teacher centered system.

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:05) We'll schedule another session to go further, deeper into this updating, extending of "Collaborative Change" applied to the transition from on-campus TOWARD online courses

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:05) @Bill - do you have access to Google Sites?

 Bill Vilberg: (15:05) When I started in faculty development, 13 years ago, I followed the "Faculty Development as Guerrila Warfare"

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:06) Our students do projects in Google Sites - they have done some really nice stuff.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:06) Also Photostories

 Bill Vilberg: (15:06) It was under the radar, dealing with small groups of faculty.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:06) yes!  thinking

 cbradley SCC NC: (15:06) Is BB really teacher centered, or is it the way the course is organized, or the way the teacher thinks about course organization?

 Bill Vilberg: (15:06) At this point I think it needs to be more institutional rather than just a few people doing their own things.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:07) No mic today - all lent out

 Bill Vilberg: (15:07) @Jane - I have Google Docs access

 Ilene Frank: (15:07) I think u can use Bb like a portal and build out from there.   I don't think you have to be trapped inside Bb.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:07) Hmmmm - I wonder if the committee could have students on it?

 Joy Mark: (15:07) Could you say more Ilene?

 Joy Mark: (15:07) what would you add?

 Ilene Frank: (15:08) Sure! Why not use Web 2.0 tools along with Bb?  (And Bb is going to allow faculty to make some materials OER now!)

 Bill Vilberg: (15:08) My goal:  Move toward learning centered.

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:08) "teacher-centered"  "learner-centered"  "active-learning"  Complementary or conflicting?

 suehellman: (15:09) BB is a tool -- it depends on how you envision and structure a course using it that will make it more teacher-led (narrative of coherence) or student-centered (landscape of coherence).

 Bill Vilberg: (15:09) Learner centered systems are not discussed at the school, college, or institutional level. Just with individuals.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:09) @Bill - agreed!

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:09) So... we've been talking about STRUCTURES, METHODS, GOALS, CONFUSING VARIETY OF RESOURCES/PURPOSES

 Bill Vilberg: (15:10) @suehellman: I agree that Bb can be used in either way. It just supports the teacher centered model very well.

 suehellman: (15:10) There need to be more easlity available models of non-linear use of BB or Moodle on which others can piggyback their course redesign.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:10) I like to "put technology in the hands of students." After all, they will have to have multimedia competencies (and I don't just mean how to manipulate tools).

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:10) and then to "learnING Centered"

 Joy Mark: (15:10) The move that Jane is describing is one that our faculty are not willing to make.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:11)

 Joy Mark: (15:11) See it as their job to lead & motivate learning

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:11) What about the sage on the side?  The guide on the stage?  The group in the loop?

 Joy Mark: (15:11) I believe I heard one faculty member say that allowing student-directed learning would be a "disaster"

 Bill Vilberg: (15:11) How did engineering end up being your partner in this?

 suehellman: (15:11) @Jane -- but you can't assume they allcome with the same tech savviness. This is critical in K-12 -- they have to be taught/shown powerful uses of tech skills to leverage learning

 Bill Vilberg: (15:12) Was it offered to everyone or did they come forward on their own?

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:12) I too have worked with multiple faculty who took the opportunity to move the content out online and the interaction into the classroom.  They often thought about it as "bringing the homework into class" (in the maths & sciences)... which seemed to help them move towards activities.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:12) @Joy - my sense is that this is a losing proposition because it is based on a model of expertise based on content and content is everywhere now...what students need is the ability to think and interact with people......the skills to develop learning activities that support this are not trivial for faculty, I think.

 suehellman: (15:13) @Joy -- I think this is because people thinks this means turining over all decision making to the learners -- mistaken idea of guide on the side -- I think we need to be sages on the side and guides on the stage.

 Steven Grindle: (15:13) The sun is centered in the solar system but is essential to life on Earth. The teacher is the center of learning in a class but the objective is to educate the student.

 Ilene Frank: (15:13) Jane  what about the Intro to Artificial Intelligence open course?  That's so fascinating!

 Ilene Frank: (15:13) Steven Grindle, I want the slogan on a t-shirt!

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:13) Whatever the stepping stone into engaged, reflective, thoughtful learning is worth exploring and supporting... and anyting that comes out of where facutly are ready to start, develop and share.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:13) "put technology in the hands of students." Would be a really interesting session

 Bill Vilberg: (15:14) @Joy: I am a boomer, educated in the 60's, when the students created the syllabus. FAIL. Taking a "tour" without a guide is much less valuable than having the guide.

 cbradley SCC NC: (15:15) I wish my students would take more initiative and I could be a guide on the side. However, many students still expect a package to be delivered .

 Ilene Frank: (15:15) 130,000 in the course! What's the retention rate? <heheh>

 Joy Mark: (15:15) Good point from several: I think the faculty need to have some discussion on what "student-directed, "learner-centered," etc. means

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:16) @Bill  my experience - UMichigan late 60s- Senior seminar in American Culture.  we set the syllabus with the prof - who was the advisor to many of us.  It was wonderful!

 Ilene Frank: (15:16) There's a conspiracy theory that the AI course is a set up for something fee-based.  See Slashdot

 Bill Vilberg: (15:16) We are struggling with Learning Outcomes and assessment, too.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:17) Is it good to take on all the interrealted issues at once?

 Karin Thomeier: (15:17) I agree, Joy. An then we need to move away from students' expectation to be spoon-fed

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:17) @Joy & others - Faculty are part of the learning community and have a very important perspective... but perhaps it is not the only idea and... if you want to engage students/learners then engaging them in thinking about how what they are learning is relevant and of interest to them, then they will attend to learning in a meaningfully different way.

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:17) inter-related

 Bill Vilberg: (15:17) But they all are related, aren't they?

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:18) sure, but I'm talking about strategy.

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:18) @ Bill - that's what I was going to say as well - they are indeed all related.

 Bill Vilberg: (15:18) Our SACS accreditiation requires a QEP. details it.

 Bill Vilberg: (15:19) It is on Faculty Learning Communities.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:19) Steve G - do you have the URL for your Keen article?

 Bill Vilberg: (15:19) We have had very few applicants, and it doesn't seem to have had much effect.

 Steven Grindle: (15:19) Gotta go now, see you next week! :)

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:20) Keen article

 Joy Mark: (15:20) Something else helpful that came from this conversation--tying pedagogical changes together with outcomes/measurement improvement

 Bill Vilberg: (15:20) Because of this effort, creating other FLCs has been strongly discouraged.

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:20) It's like the MOOC:

 Ilene Frank: (15:20) Yep! But the Slashdot people are suggesting selling the course as part of say... Know Labs.  That's not necessarily bad!

 Bill Vilberg: (15:20) I think the "badges" movement is going to put pressure on us in higher education.

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:20) @ Bill - just finished serving as QEP evaluator for active learning that had faculty learning communities on the side... I like your idea of FLCs as the centerpiece  The power of SoTL to build on faculty strengths holds great promise.

 Jane Marcus: (15:20) have we lost sound again

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:20) quietness

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:21) lost you

 Karin Thomeier: (15:21) no sound

 Bill Vilberg: (15:21) Currently all Microsoft, auto repair, and licensure systems are badges, not college courses.

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:21) @ Bill - Although the idea that you could not then create additional FLCs is quite disappointing.

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:21)

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:21) anyone hear me

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:21) I've lost sound.

 Ilene Frank: (15:21) No hearing!

 cbradley SCC NC: (15:21) No sound.

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:22) Just played & heard music

 Karin Thomeier: (15:22) there you are

 Ilene Frank: (15:22) Yes!

 Jane Marcus: (15:22) ok you're back

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:22) hear you now

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:22) now hear you steve

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:22) yes

 Karin Thomeier: (15:22) with echo

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:22) you are there

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group 2: (15:22) fdfd

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:22) we hear you steve

 cbradley SCC NC: (15:22) You're echoing.

 Ilene Frank: (15:22) LOL!

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:22) We get echo... time for Weekend indeed!

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:22) thanks everyone

 Jane Harris, UNC Greensboro: (15:22) Thanks - interesting session.

 cbradley SCC NC: (15:22) Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:22) Really rich and enjoyed session.  Thanks!

 Joy Mark: (15:22) thanks to all

 Bill Vilberg: (15:22) Bye bye. Looking forward to more guidance. Thank you all.

 Jane Marcus: (15:22) I"m IN!!!!

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:23) Thanks everyone - have a great weekend (sorry I was caught in a meeting and so late today - seemed like a rich meeting).

 Ilene Frank: (15:23) Bill, great problem!

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:23) See you next week!

 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:23) enough

 Karin Thomeier: (15:23) Many thanks !! Have a great weekend, everyone


 Sally Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:23) bonnie I stopeed the recording

 Karin Thomeier: (15:24) can you hear me now

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:24) Karin - we hear you

 cbradley SCC NC: (15:24) Hearing Karin?

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:24) someone else has mike open

 Karin Thomeier: (15:24) Excellent! First time ever

 Karin Thomeier: (15:24) I can't hear you anymore

 Jane Marcus: (15:24) i

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:24) and Karin (Jane? whoever) was not echoing.

 Karin Thomeier: (15:24) but I can hear s.o typing

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group 2: (15:25) karin, try clicking on your mic icon up near top center

 Karin Thomeier: (15:25) no sound

 Jane Marcus: (15:25) I'm signing off - steve, talk to you soon...

 Bill Vilberg: (15:25) @Sally - Senior seminar: Yes. Freshman intro course: NO! Not that the students shouldn't affect the syllabus, topics, and plans. Just that they don't know the discipline, so they have no ability to make the plans.

 Bonnie Mullinix, TLT Group: (15:26) Sally - thanks for stopping the recording.  I am going to take off now.  Bye all.

 cbradley SCC NC: (15:27) Thanks, Bye.

 Bill Vilberg: (15:27) If I was a geology student taking a trip down the Grand Canyon, I would want to have some control over where the group stopped. If I was a "tourist" I would hope that the guide would pick interesting places and adapt to the interests of the group.

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:27)

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:27) River or hiking?

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:28) Happy Weekend!

 Karin Thomeier: (15:28) Not getting any responses so I guess no one can hear me

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:28) quiet from karen here

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:28) Do you have an external mic Karin?

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:28) clear and loud

 Karin Thomeier: (15:28) I can hear you

 Bill Vilberg: (15:29) I was thinking of a multiple day float trip down the Grand Canyon. The guide in that situation is always my model of a great teacher.

 Karin Thomeier: (15:29) The only thing in my list is "mute my mike"

 Karin Thomeier: (15:30) Ok, yes please haven't done it yet

 Bill Vilberg: (15:30) Signing off.

 Karin Thomeier: (15:31) is the wizard in Microsoft??

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:31) i'm in the sloan-c online courses to learn about hybrid/blended courses  life-long learning?

 Karin Thomeier: (15:31) Where did you say it was?

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:31) drops down from meeting icon

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:31) Karin, when you finish the Audio Setup Wizard - on the pull down menu below MEETING

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:32) Karin, type something in this chat area as soon as you finish the Audio Setup Wizard... or if you cannot launch it.

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:33) btw, steve, i've got two android phones, just cant find a reliable cell provider down here

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:33) i use them with my wireless dsl router in the meantime

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:33) As microphones/headsets?  or what?

 Karin Thomeier: (15:34) Steve, do I reset the settings in preferences?

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:34) just let's me use the apps -- night sky map, some good utilities etc  sort of microtablets

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:35) Karin, don't thnk you need to... if you have done the Audio Setup Wizard

 Karin Thomeier: (15:35) I could hear the sound played but my recording was a no go in the wizard

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:36) AHA!  that means you've got some problem with the microphone and/or audio input/recording settings

 Karin Thomeier: (15:36) Yes, I can hear you

 Karin Thomeier: (15:36) PC about 6 years old

 Karin Thomeier: (15:36) XP

 Karin Thomeier: (15:37) Ok I'll check that

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:38)

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:38) http://

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:39)

 Karin Thomeier: (15:39) None of the master volumes is muted in the output

 Steve Gilbert, TLT Group: (15:39)

 Karin Thomeier: (15:40) Ok.......I'll look into it for next time. Don't want to keep you. Than you so much.

 Karin Thomeier: (15:40) Newfoundland, Canada

 Karin Thomeier: (15:40) Thanks me too

 John Munro, Univ of Virgin Island: (15:40) sorry, guys, someones got to be here

 Karin Thomeier: (15:40) Ok Thanks bye