RE: The One? - White,LTV 2003 Free Spirit 210A @ Stahmann’s, I-35
(New Braunfels : San Antonio - Austin)
“Texas 4BBDC” VIN:WD2YD742035491400
Worth $32-34k if they won’t budge?
or do I pack up and head West or East for it better for $32-34k?
Dear RV Brains Trust!
[Dad, Uncle Ash, Cecil et Al, Mike
and all you other mechanics and dealers
kind enough to still be helping me out even if I couldn't afford to buy from you!]
I think I may have found IT!! [Hurrah]
(now Izabela has finally decided what type of RV she wants; has to be a Sprinter based van)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QAxhYq7LLM
This 2003 Lesiure Travel 210A has been used hard it seems looks like to me and has some rust and cosmetic issues. However, it IS a Sprinter and should almost certainly be available for under $34,000
[on $37k now and haven't started haggling yet! + see depreciation calculations below.] Also, it’s right here in Texas, on the I-35 between San Antonio and Austin.
That is a not insignificant plus for us, unlike the two other decent condition, sub-$35k Sprinter prospects I’ve got live right now, which are both more than a short distance aways (1 near West and 1 on East coast!). One other big plus, it’s being sold by the same nice bunch we started with back when I wanted a Class C and Iza was scared to drive it! Christie, Gene & co at Stahmann’s in New Braunfels. Remember the Sunseeker Class C I said seemed out of place at “The home to the small RV”. Well, it’s them (they didnt have the Sprinter here then) and I am confidant they’d do us right both before and after sale.
They seem decent straight-froward folks and to be honest the luxury top-end mobiles they sell make our potential purchases the very bottom end of their stock. So, they don’t need to waste time to screw us for the odd $500 here and there, they must make more than enough margin on those crazy/rich enough to pay $120k up front for 2011 models and eat the depreciation!
Shame it’s a 210A layout which isn't too clever. Wastes the space and light the galley could have and utitlity of access from the slide door. One of the other prospects is a more sensible 210B from the same company and one year younger + less miles (by a touch) but it’s a private seller (I’m not keen to do that) and I’ve already haggled them down as far as they’ll go and it’s stuck at $32,450
Depreciation calculations on a 2003 LTV Free Spirit 210A
I confirmed the MSRP and value with the manufacturers themselves.
For the sake of simplicity I’ve worked the depreciation calculations out from the MSRP; even though that produces a higher figure for the current, 2010 value!
It doesnt really matter anyway:
Which ever depreciation model you use,
or whether you start with MSRP or actual purchase price
(if the owners paid over $63k new they were very bad negotiators or got robbed by whomever they bought it from!)
- the current value NEVER works out at more than $31,000. Usually somewhere between $27,000 and $30,000.
Highest Possible Current Value using higest start value &
Most conservative depreciation calculation
MSRP: $75,000 [Confirmed by LTV, that model, those specs & opts, then]
Purchase New: Work on $65,000 [REALLY got screwed if was]
Purchase $ : $65,000 (Really should be 75-85% max of MSRP but assume they got taken for a ride and it was 85% = $63,750k! then add a thousand. Price CANNOT have been higher than that) - Doesnt matter here as calculating off MSRP anyway.
Year of Purchase New : 2003
Year Now : 2010.08
Drive off Lot & Initial Devaluation on MSRP : $52,500
1st year of use : $47,250
Annual modest devalue then tails over 5 years until it holds it’s re-sale value almost totally steady year on year. Until it either falls apart and is no longer safe or usable. Alternatively, till it becomes so outdated in features and styling that no one wants it:
2004 Value : $47,250
2005 Value : $42,525
2006 Value : $38,273
2007 Value : $34,445
2008 Value : $31,001
2009 Value : $30,381
2010 Value : $30,077
Current MAX Value (this is a ‘kind’ formula & start values, especially considering the actual condition and treatment of the vehicle in question)
= $30,077. Let’s say, for a round number up to, $30,100
The only reason I, or anyone else for that matter, would consider paying 30k or over is the lack of alternatives out there. Guess the pool of 2nd hand Sprinter Bs just isnt as big as that for Gas Bs or indeed Cs.
It wasn't that easy to find the other two good sub $34k options and I’d rather not travel again till it’s in our own RV! But, obviously (yes, Dad!) I WILL travel to save $1000+ for the same vehicle.
Faults to address - 2003 Leisure Travel Free Spirit 210A
(As of 2010.08.21)
sitting on deposit at Stahmann’s, I-35
, New Braunfels, TX - Christie & Gene Lopanec
> Get VIN check done [WD2YD742035491400] to make sure hasn't been damaged in any major beyond its rusting and interior wear, scuff and stain issues - IE. no crashes etc in its past. Odometer reads true etc
EXTERIOR PROBLEMS & FLAWS TO ADDRESS
> Rear exterior doors, in very visible high up position, disfigured by three strips of ugly peel off stickers of some kind.
What was stuck to that before - a black bag shower because the water heater didn’t work?
Whatever it is was, why attach it in such a way that it leaves unsightly marks on the
exterior of the van that will prove difficult if not impossible to totally remove without
scouring and repaint?!
> Fog light is broken/non-functional
> Rust on rear van door hinges
- need to check isn't outer symptom of more serious problem and ensure it gets
cleaned up and gets no worse.
Openable and securable rear doors being a rather useful feature of any van conversion!
> Rust in quite a few places exterior, underside and interior.
Where has this van been kept/used? [Coastal? Damp? Salty?]
> Brake rotators rusty and rust inside the hubs -
is that indicative of interior rusting and potential problems?
For mountains and freeways we MUST have reliable, strong brakes.
Need to ask Gene nicely to thoroughly check these and get replaced if necessary.
> Rust on all visible roof seams when seen from above
> Chipping and breaks on van roof edges/corners
> Rust on van roof edges/corners
> Freightliner badge been ripped off the front grill (owners or miscreants did it?)
INTERIOR PROBLEMS/FLAWS TO ADDRESS
> Broken Water Heater or at least there is NO HOT WATER
and there is a Water Heater fault light that comes on.
> Lack of hot water persists no matter how long Water Heater left on and persists whether on generator or plugged in shore power
> Over the bed ceiling light cover missing - bare bulbs; not attractive or homely feeling.
Needs cover not bare bulbs
> Scratches and dings on fridge wood laminate outer cover; no hiding those from visitors
unless we strip the wood laminate off the front of the fridge - what is underneath?
> Underneath the fridge the ventilation grill is stoved in and dented. Fixable?
> Sink faucet corroded and ‘skin complaint’-ish!
> No table strap as should be/was. So, flying tables when drive. Lively!
Need strap reinstall/repair
> Galley slide chest high draw (a clumsy, obstructive after-purchase bit of DIY or just bad original design?) is only held shut with a piece of elastic rope and metal hooks [bungee cord is the US name?]. Whatever it’s called it belongs in an outdoor/work-bench setting not in your kitchen/galley as you make breakfast!
> Toilet seat stained & unpleasant looking. Izabela will go nuts trying to scrub that back to whiteness and cleanliness. Better I just get it replaced. It LOOKS unhygenic even if it isnt!
> Fold-up/collapsing bathroom shelf strut is rusty, corroded and limescaled.
Clean and if still mechanically sound and robust enough keep.
Otherwise need replace the hinge.
> Cabinet door nearest the smoke detector is
broken/hanging loose/wrong/ off-square compared to cupboard below it.
> Rear awning window mechanisms are ALL rusty and stiff
- need immediate TLC to keep working
> Bathroom door catch on exterior slightly rusty
> Bathroom fixtures & fittings very grimy & stained need SERIOUS clean or replace. Some of the post-purchase, dirtier additions and things stuck to the walls we can do entirely without I think!
> Cabinet by slide door will not latch and thus doesn’t stay closed
especially when on the move
(& Iza thinks looks like never belonged there?)
It is an odd layout having kitchen/galley staring at a blank wall getting hot on driver’s side whilst the open space and air/ventilation offered by the slide door on passenger side is wasted. Almost all units we’ve viewed previously put the tall cabinets on the drivers side and the galley and lower cabinets on the passengers. Now understand fully why - much more practical and spacious. They were all more expensive units but that shouldn't be a matter of cost just common sense surely?
I.E. Why should it cost anymore to put same cheaper lower quality components [Obviously this isn't a Winnebago Era or even a PleasureWay Plateau so its parts and finish WILL be cheap] but in a more sensible layout?
> Staining & damage to upper cabinet surface by slide door [Partic shame as due to peculiar layout this must be the most visible spot, first thing you see of interior of the RV and it’s not at all in nice condition] - Need to patch or cover that up somehow.
That is assuming we don’t rip it out to correct the flaws in the layout.
> Wood veneer throughout Van interior has circular and similar shaped ripped off scars
made in many spots by unwise misuse of stick-on-hooks all over the place.
NOT GOOD IDEA
> Coffee stain (indelible, I fear) on counter top:
in unfortunately very visible location front edge by sink.
Can Gene/others do anything with that?
Would bleach/ scourer make a worse mess than is currently?
> Coffee or food prep. stains all over white hob cover surface
- Query: Previous owners drink coffee or dance with it?
> Coffee Maker strap stained
Drivers Seat doesn't rotate - Not a fault; it never did. However, we could get it made rotatable. However is it worth the cost and hassle when the wall is so tight behind the drivers seat and one of other options is already rotatable and better laid out?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, from the videos and pics I sent you + this one. I can post rest for those of you whose Email accounts are bouncing large Vid files but you all should’ve got the photos.
(more available on request, I didn't want to clutter up your inbox till you asked me to)
A) Is it mechanically sound or can it be made so?
B) Is it worth over $32,000 or do I pack up and head to one coast or the other.
Get back to me as soon as you possibly can, please, this is decision time.