Hello, everyone, and welcome to living in this queer body, a podcast about barriers to embodiment, and how our collective body stories can bring us back to ourselves. I am so glad you're joining me again feels like it's been a while. I'm adjusting to the every other week podcast schedule, but I think it is working best for me right now with my schedule, and I hope that it is going to allow me to continue to sustainably create really quality episodes. So thanks for tuning in. And before we get to the episode, I really just have kind of one thing to talk about. had a really powerful and engaged group of folks show up for the first living in this queer body virtual workshop. What I really loved is that folks tuned in from all over and they really showed up like vulnerable and searching, seeking out queer community connection to support them in sorting through challenges and questions related to boundaries, which we realize we could talk about forever. One participant sent me a lovely note, and I'm just going to read it to you. Obviously, with their permission. They said, thank you so much for facility getting the space last night and asking such excellent questions. I enjoy being with each person and engaging in these questions and searching with queer community. I'm taking away a bunch of new thoughts and feeling excited to get and stay curious about the overwhelm. I appreciate the spaces you're creating with the podcast and the way that those episodes offer me a connection and inspiration as I navigate my queer body onward. Okay, so that was really sweet. I just wanted to share that and onward indeed, our next virtual workshop will take place on Tuesday, October 1 from seven to 8:30pm. Eastern Standard Time, I hope to see some familiar and new faces. The topic specific topic is going to be announced on Instagram in maybe a couple weeks, but it will involve all of the things that we as queer folks are probably very much in shared community in terms of navigating think it's probably going to involve sex and intimacy. So to register, you can either DM me on Instagram, or email me at living in this queer body at gmail. com and all info will also be on my website, living in this queer body calm. So I hope you enjoy this episode and keep the five star reviews coming. It really helps folks find out about this show and the projects connected to it. Leave a review if you can. I've been getting some just lovely emails and messages on Instagram and I they're so meaningful. And I thank you for doing that. If some of you are willing to put a review on iTunes, I guess it's Apple podcast now. That would be great as well. So I had a very powerful conversation this week with Tilly. There another amazing tattooed doula. Much like Tamra Santa banya, who was our first interviewee we talk a lot about bodies in this episode, in part because T and I share really similar experiences navigating chronic autoimmune health issues and gender amongst many other things. They currently provide a really cool experience that includes an astrological reading with a tattoo designed specifically based on your astrological chart. TV is a queer tattoo that has been living in Brooklyn for the past seven years. With a background in music installation, art, photography, fee and postpartum healing as a doula t now concentrates on hand Pope tattooing and storytelling. T co owns their own interdisciplinary tattoo studio called welcome home with their business partner, Kelly Colicchio. I hope you enjoy this episode. And stay in touch.

So, T thank you so much for

being here with me today.

Thank you so much. It's nice to have you.

I'd like to start out each each episode with a question about sort of about your earliest memories of learning about what it meant to have a body or learning about what it meant for other people to tell you about your body, whatever comes to mind for you?

Well, when I when I was a kid, I was obsessed with just wearing underwear and being naked all the time. I was like maybe three or four. And I was also obsessed with wearing Mardi Gras beads around my neck whilst being topless as a child. And you know that Yeah, of course, my parents thought was hilarious. And I never understood why I wasn't able to go outside like that. And you know, I kind of vaguely remember like my mom saying, like, a little girls have to put clothes on when they go outside. And then I remember not understanding why like little boys didn't have to wear clothes and why they could just run around however they wanted. And I think like in that moment, I realized that there were like all of a sudden limitations and in my body and not not what it could do. But like, how it was perceived Bye, people. And that, for some reason gave my like four year old or three year old mind, like a little clarity on Oh, I'm like, trapped in this body. And this is what I will have forever, you know, all of a sudden. So yeah, I think I think that's my, my earliest memory of that. And there's so many pictures of me with the Mardi Gras beads around my neck still a

good time. Did you have a sense from your it sounds like your mom was the person kind of trying to explain that to you. But did you have a sense of what, how she felt about that? how she felt about kind of restricting? I don't know, restricting maybe too strong of a word. But kind of, you know, teaching you at such an early age, as many parents do about a lot of really intense stuff. That's kind of just implied.

Yeah, I think my mom less so in her mind. It wasn't about restriction. It was more about protection. Yeah. And, you know, I think that, in, in her mind, everyone in the world was kind of bad, right? I think when you have a kid at first, you start to see the world in a different way. And you start worrying about all these things all of a sudden, that you never really thought you'd have to worry about before. And you know, my mom growing up, you know, I'm from a very conservative religious household. And I think that that had a lot to do with how she explained gender and gender roles and all that kind of stuff. And I think

in her mind, it was always about protection.

as are many, you know, conservative mothers, but they don't really realize that it's like it's constriction more than protection. The night into your question. Yeah, total. Okay.

What was your family is kind of religious. Very

Baptist,

very Baptist.

Yes. We bounced around between Baptists and evangelical churches. And, you know, I was a servant of God for many, many years, many years. And that informed a lot of how I saw my sexuality and my gender. And, you know, was was horrifying when I started to realize about myself and just trying to convince myself that, you know, what, what was inside of me wasn't real. And, you know, it's very pleasing. Like many, you know, queers that grew up in religious families experience, it was very otherworldly. I definitely felt like I was two people at one time.

You know, most of my adolescent life?

Mm hmm. What was the kind of outward acceptable version of you doing or presenting as

I never really presented as really anything, I think my mom always knew, I was like that, quote, unquote, tomboy, or whatever, I hate that term. But you know, try to put me in bows and skirts, and I would like literally rip them off minutes into her trying to close me at the age of three, you know, and she dressed me in pink, and I just want to wear black and my go outside and climb the trees and skin, my knees, and I rode horses, and just, you know, I never was that girly girl that both her and my dad were really hoping for. And so the acceptable version was, you know, that version of me, but that went to church and believed in like, the hetero normative way and said, Yes, ma'am. Yes, sir, to everybody, and, you know, prayed many times a day accepted. Christ baptized, you know, all that kind of stuff. And I didn't realize that until I was maybe eight or nine, that I felt differently than everyone around me inside. And I remember when that moment came, I had just accepted, quote, unquote, Christ as my Savior, which sounds fucking crazy as I'm like, as I talked about it, you know, I did it. Yeah,

yeah. It's,

it's something that so many of us do. And it's just like this normal thing. And you know, we're older, and we're looking back and we're just like, oh, holy shit, that was so fucked up.

But I remember being like, oh, and I didn't have a term for age. And no, gay was like, I didn't know, I didn't know any of that, like no one had ever told me about it. And I but I knew it was bad somehow. And I remember like, having this singular thought in my mind, and it was just based on attraction. It wasn't even based, I wasn't aware of what I felt in my gender is just about sexuality. And I had this thought about like, you know, like, I guess a girl, you know, not a woman or anything, and immediately backpedal. They're, like, holy shit, no way I gotta run. And from that moment on, I just, I really started to question my involvement in the church and religion and my mom. And, you know, since the age of like, eight, I really have been working on listening to my inner voice and my inner person, and not necessarily being the outer person that everyone wanted me to be.

When we're communicating before this interview, you said something that really struck me, you said, you know that you were longing to be one of those alien kids who went beyond gender. There's something I guess, when when I saw that I was thinking, you know, how did you? How did you even know that there were like, alien kids out there? Or you know what I mean? Like, what was your It sounds like you grew up in a very kind of, like, very constricted conservative. Yeah. But I just wonder like, do you remember anything that kind of gave you a sense? Or was it really just, you know, your own inner world,

I think it was a bit of both. You know, as I mentioned, I rode horses growing up, and my family, we grew up pretty poor, but my mom always scraped together money so that I could take horse lessons. And my horse instructor Her name is Carol. And, I mean, I don't this is never confirmed, but like, I assume she was a lesbian, because she was like road hard hung up with which is foot, you know, and I was obsessed with her as a kid. And she was like, the first lesbian, quote, unquote, paid for the scene. And I just remember, like, she just gave just her existence, Hannah gave me permission and to listen to those parts of myself. And having the relationship that I did with Carol, and also being around these horses, when you're around horses, or at least when I was, I didn't feel human. You know, I felt like I could, they could see through my flesh into like, what I actually was on the inside. And I think like, that was what, at the time, I didn't, I don't know if I knew it was alien, but I just knew that I felt otherworldly. And I didn't necessarily feel like I was trapped in this body. And, you know, that's why I still have such a strong connection to horses today. And they really just are a symbol of my freedom when it comes to my gender and everything outside of the restrictions of my body. And so I think if it wasn't for Carol and his horses, I'm, I probably be a lot different than I am today. But yeah, it was profound for me as a kid, and I never shared it really with anyone as a child, you know, didn't really understand it until I moved more into my into my teens.

Yeah. How can you say a little bit about how you've been

metabolized? All of that as a an adult, you know, like how you've been working through listening to that inner more like, inner wild, alien part of yourself?

Yeah, well, I think I lost it for a long time. And when I was a kid, I had like, a really intense connection to it. And, and, and then through, through my teens, actually, when I when I separated myself from religion, and my innocence also started to fade as I moved more into, like adolescence and early adulthood. I totally lost that, like, mystical, charming connection I had with that part of myself. And all of a sudden, I was trying to fit in and these like, very conscious circles of people, you know, specifically when I was in my 20s, I moved to Kansas City. And, you know, at that point, I understood, okay, I'm gay. I know this, I'm going to act accordingly. You know, and, and I just, I kept trying to think maybe be something I wasn't. And back then I didn't know what non binary was, I didn't really understand a lot about gender. I just knew like, you're gay, or you're not kind of deal. And yeah, so I lost it for a long time. And then, about two years ago, I was doing a breath work class with Regina, who you interviewed at my studio, a welcome home, and I was laying on the floor. And we're looking up at the ceiling. And I just saw like a horse run across the ceiling. And that's when boom, immediately it just like came up in my mind all of a sudden, and I just, you know, it's like, oh, cool. Yep, nope, don't have a gender. That's the thing now for me. And you know, non binary was definitely on my radar and was, you know, I knew about it, I just was so unsure if that's how I would really identify because I just didn't get my myself permission to just let go. And, and truly just be who I was. And when I had that vision or whatever you want to call it. I just immediately knew. And so yeah, now I'm going through my 30s as a different version of myself, and it feels good.

What feels what feels good about it for you, like what have you noticed that even just in kind of small, mundane ways? Like what have you Yeah,

I just wake up feeling better about myself. I'm less upset that I'm trapped in this body. Don't kind of upsetting to have this like, really Kirby like super body and I try to you know, I do identify as fam and I, you know, it because I'm also gender fluid. It's also like, some days, I'm like, Lucky activities. And other days, I'm just like, holy shit, I just want to be anywhere outside of this body. And

since I let go of this, like structure of gender, I feel that that

disagreement that happens in my head between my subconscious and my consciousness as less argumentative, it's, it's more Okay, well, I can accept this. And let's kind of just move through the day and see where this takes us. And taking gender out of everything is obviously for some people less triggering. So yeah, it's been, it's just been a bit easier to kind of live in this body, being free of this leash to society.

How has that, you know, that kind of more expansive feeling that it sounds like? Has you remembered in the way with the horses and everything? And every remember that there is a more expansive version of you? How is that? You know, you've, you've spoken publicly about some health issues that you've been dealing with lately. And I wonder how that what has happened with the interaction between that kind of more expansive feeling and almost relief, you know, that you felt in? You know, identifying as non binary? And I imagine, you know, kind of really, yeah, experiencing relief around that, and then experiencing also some really difficult feelings in your body as a result? Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, when I first came out as non binary.

Well, so as far as, as far as my health issues, since I guess, everyone, yes, no clue.

I suffer from endometriosis. And I just got diagnosed with Edina mitosis. And that is, you know, has to do with your reproductive system, and the way that your uterus sheds its lining, and I had enemy dresses since I can remember. And so that's always kind of been with me, and, you know, part of what had been so painful in my 20s was like menstruating physically painful, but also very emotionally painful, because, you know, I was in a very, like, I was in a circle of a lot of like, Sis, lesbians, you know, and, you know, they would talk about how excited they were to bleed and like, it was such a formative and important part of them. And I just like, you know, I was just like, No, I don't want this, like, this is really triggering for me. But I didn't know how to express that or how to have words for that. And so I kind of just took like that physical pain, and then mental pain and just like, shoved it away and just lived with it. And then for the past year, luckily, I haven't had a period due to the contraceptive that I'm on, for the pain and man Demetrius is, and so that has been an incredible experience not having to deal with that, you know, monthly reminder coming up. But my my body pain associated with my chronic illnesses very much still there and present, but at least I don't have to be triggered by my menstrual cycle. And, yeah, I think I might have gone off topic, and I'm not sure.

Going so sorry. It's sort of a, I guess, maybe kind of a mess. In some ways. At least I've, it's something that you and I both share. I actually remember when I was, you know, when you were giving me a tattoo, and I was deep in kind of really confronting how much endometriosis had was impacting my life and impact professional life. And I remember, I don't remember exactly, but I remember a conversation we had about it. And, you know, you were very curious about what was happening with me, because I think that you related to some of it, but hadn't quite, you know, yeah, vested in an explicit way in your life. And I guess, you know, it seems when I say a mess, it just feels like I also, you know, really, I think it's very complicated to identify as non binary or trans or, you know, non has not sis and yeah, and to have such like this aggressively. Kind of, quote unquote, female oriented, or I, you know, the discourse around your reproductive health is very, can be Barry says, I mean, I think there are a lot of people that are trying to push against that right now. And yeah, with the abortion ban, and all that, which has been been really wonderful. But, yeah, I think that's what why it feels like a mess to me, at least, you know, I'm speaking for myself, but

I mean, yeah, absolutely. And I think I didn't seek treatment for the two decades, I've been living with this, because of the reality of being, you know, or just having to talk so much about gender and also going to the doctor and saying, like, Hey, I have this thing. It's crippling, and I need you to take care of me. And then having doctor after doctor being like, that's totally normal. That's totally normal. You know, and I think I was so curious about what you were going through, because I just never knew if I should really speak up, like loud about it, and not and not leave the doctor's office with someone being like, no, you're fine. So when I would have clients come in and share with me, their, you're into the nutrients, so just like clean on to them and cling on to you, because I was just like, oh my god, I'm normal, you know, like, this isn't? It's not just me, and I'm, you know, queer people all over experienced this, and it just feels isolating hearing you talk about it?

Yeah. Yeah. And it's not, it's not something that I also struggled to kind of talk about it because it felt like it in some ways talking about it really gendered me, in a way I just, I was uncomfortable. But also, I mean, I've talked about this on the podcast before, but you know, it was similar feeling to, you know, being pregnant, and people making a lot of assumptions about me, obviously, I was capable of becoming pregnant and, and physically and so I, you know, but there are a lot of assumptions that people make about, about you. And it felt somewhat like exposing of that inner, like, something about my inner world was being exposed. Um, I don't know what it's been like for you, but, and then also kind of feeling like, you know, a lack of queer voices that are, are kind of talking about, in general, and this is something we talked about on the podcast, but like, in general, talking about chronic pain. And

so it's all that's, that's the mess, I guess. Yeah.

I mean, it is such a huge mess. And, you know, also just the fact that having chronic pain in general, as a queer person, you're often just all you know, dismissed. And I'm, you know, a little different in the sense I am very, like Finn presenting. So I, you know, you would never know, I was queer, right, like, so I have so much privilege walking into a doctor's office and kind of talking about my pain in that way. And, you know, I'm a little bit more believed, but something I hear continuously from my clients who are not as like passing is that their pain is like, you know, pretty much always completely dismissed. And I think that's also why you don't hear a lot of queer people with uteruses. And maybe talking about that pain. Because, you know, sometimes the queer community can also be dismissive. It's really important when talking about how the world outside of the community is dismissive, and how some of those similar things go on, in our head get released, and in an understanding way, but also, just like, we got to talk about that, so that it continues to break and so that people can speak up about this kind of stuff. And yeah, I don't, I just I try, especially on social media, to talk about my pain a lot, and to encourage other people to share me their stories with their pain, because I just want to make crunch illness. Normal, right? Because when I started having clients coming in, and they were talking about their chronic pain was exactly similar to mine. That feeling was so freeing, and I just feel had been hugged for the first time in my life. And I just desperately want other people who haven't had that connection of people to feel that.

So genuinely, I want that for them.

So like, think, also, thank you for this having this podcast. Because that's also so much of what this this work is for? And yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I tangent, but

no, I hear you. And I mean, I think something, something that has to be talked about when, when talking about chronic pain, or, you know, being diagnosed with an illness that doesn't have a cure, or, you know, kind of within the context of that, I'm curious how you, and I'm sure listeners would be interested in kind of understanding how you made choices around taking care of yourself, whatever that means, as, you know, a tattoo artist and facilitator of this of Welcome home, you know, a space that you you know, you're curating and all that. So yeah, how has that been for you?

Well, taking care of myself is something that is actually really new to me. And I mean, like past six months new, I, if you ascribe to astrology, I am a cancer. Libra moon Aquarian rising. So my, my life is taking care of other people. And I, I thought my whole life that I was giving back to myself by taking care of other people. And I thought that that's what filled my wall lap. And it's only in the past six months, when I when I kind of mentally made the connection, that taking care of people was harming me in some ways. When I made that mental connection, my body, my body literally, literally fell apart. And it's like my mind gave my body permission, all of a sudden, to feel all the things that I had been ignoring by taking care of other people and taking care of my business and had a lot of anxiety of a business partner. And so I had a lot of anxiety about letting my business partner down. And, you know, endometriosis has affected the way that I work, and especially when I was menstruating, I would have to take so much time off and cancel on clients last minute, and, you know, really kind of fucked up my workflow. And so in the past year of not menstruating and then six months of that, realizing about caring and self care, yeah, it's funny how you just helping people is actually toxic for you in that moment. It's like such an oxymoronic thing. But I realized that I just I had to take a break from work. And I had to let a lot of people down, including myself. And I knew that if I didn't do that, I, I would, I wouldn't be living, you know, I felt like I was trapped in this prison. And I just I could not get out. And simultaneously trapped in a prison that's like flooding, and you're swimming, and you're trying not to drown. And it's just, you know, there's a lot and so, on the past six months, my chronic pain has gotten so much worse. And I'm, I've tried to be more open about that on social media, and trying to just facilitate conversations. And I've had so many people messaged me just be like, I hadn't no idea that that was a symptom of endometriosis. Or, I had no idea what I didn't know, meiosis is, most people don't even know what that is. And it's been rewarding, because I could still focus on myself, but in this very small way, still help people. And that feels more manageable, full to me. And that feels more of a balance. And so as that balance continues to even itself out, my health is starting to get a little bit better scheduled for, you know, laparoscopic surgery in July. And so I'm hoping, you know, at the end of the summer, I can go back to working full time, and maybe have a better understanding of how to take care of myself so that I can really take care of other people.

Mm hmm. I was thinking about, you know, the kind of intense, psychic and also, like physicality of what you actually do for a job, I mean, that you're talking about more broadly as taking care of you and you you do, you're such a You are such a cancer and a very, like a caring space holder. You are that and I am experienced it as one of your clients. But I, I wonder if what you've kind of taken under consideration around some of that, in terms of how you think about, like what your body actually might need or what might feel good for your what you've been noticing feels good and healing and helpful for you and kind of your daily life now that you're not working as full time.

Yeah, well, right, as my pain level started to get worse, and as all these things kind of clicked for me, like all of these things kind of came together at one time. And one of these other components that met me, at this point in my life was I started taking medication for my mental health. And that at first, I was like, This is not an act of self care. This is like not dealing with my shit, this is just putting a bandaid on it. And then on the other side of it, once the medication even doubt, I realized, like, wow, this was like, I gave myself permission to, like, actually live my life, Oh, my God. And in doing that, you know, it gave me permission to holistically kind of look at my life. Without this crippling anxiety, this, you know, of fear of my chronic pain. And, you know, I'm going to keep saying the word prison, but I feel like I was prisoner to just so many aspects of my life, not only just living in this body that I didn't want to be in, but all the things that I created mentally for myself, because I was addressing that connection. And, and caring for other people was a way to avoid that for me. And for me, there's a lot of astrological shifts going on at that time, that were just like begging me to slow down. And, and

so through slowing down,

and being on medication.

Also, like what's really cool, and I think I may be getting away from your question, but for the first time, since becoming or not becoming but coming out as non binary.

I wasn't scared of myself at all, or my body or the scary things going on with it, or the pain. I just I'm not scared anymore. And I don't know why, like, obviously, like, Lexapro isn't just going to like come in and take my fear away. But, you know, I've been in therapy on an offer for 20 years. And I think this is just what I needed in order to really hear and all the work that I've done to really take place. And so yeah, I feel great, not living in fear of my body, and anything that's capable of, regardless of if it's horrific pain, or if it's, you know, birthing a baby, having a baby, whatever, I no longer let that like gender kind of dictate my fear. Does that make sense? I

guess it it just makes me think about, you know, a lot of what I end up asking people about or, you know, the kind of provocation with this podcast is, is questioning what are the barriers to embodiment. As, and the goal is not to say, and the end result is is like, you know, we're embodied all the time I think about is really interesting, because, in some ways, what you're talking about is the way in which painful experiences are kind of overwhelmingly painful experiences can can bring us into our bodies, you know, like, experiences of trauma can bring us right into our body in a way that, you know, we've been like, dissociated, we've been out out in like, the stratosphere for months on end, and then, you know, we're something happens, or, you know, so I think there, there are lots of different ways, and definitely, with this podcast, don't want to convey a message that is, I think, really prevalent in kind of like the healing and wellness world where it's like, well, I do yoga, and I do all these things, nothing wrong with yoga, I do yoga, too. But like, I do yoga, I eat this way I do this, I do that, and and I feel like, embodied all the time, you know, yeah, I think that that's really, it's really important to talk about kind of how pain can be transformative, or forces us into maybe forces, but you know, is very confronting this kind of idea of embodiment. Yeah.

And I mean, I'm still very much learning about embodiment. And, you know, I don't eat the way that I should, considering my intimate my endo, like, really needs me to eat a certain way. And, you know, I, I don't take care of myself in many, many ways. But the way I look at it as I am, you know, I'm taking care of myself for the first time ever, and 31 years, and so I'm not going to be able to be good at it all of a sudden. And so I'm just, you know, trying to take it, like truly one day at a time, and also self care right now looks like for me, if I wake up, and I can't see a client, you know, I know they waited for maybe two months, three months, but I might have to cancel our appointment, you know, and, and the old me would have been like, no way you're going into work. I don't care what you feel like. And the real me, not the new me, I feel like it's the real me is like, nope, okay, you're going to take care of yourself. And if you're hurting, you need to give yourself permission to feel that and permission to hurt and permission to hold space for yourself. Because you've been holding space for other people your whole life. You deserve a day. And I think so many people who have experienced chronic illness, trauma, like you're talking about, you know, a large percentage of people on this planet who have experienced that are queer. And so I think queer people also, you know, or at least the queer people I know, are, are inherently nurturing and inherently sacrifice themselves for other people. And that's, that is just kind of a part of growing up to people as it work, you know. And so I hope more of us can come to this moment of learning embodiment, and learning embodiment through self care, and giving ourselves permission to put ourselves first. And in that, yeah, I don't know, I just the journey I'm on feels really special and really great. And I just want anyone else who's struggled with trauma and pain and being a prisoner of fear, to be able to experience the relief from that, in some ways, like you were saying, even if the relief is giving yourself permission to feel your physical pain, because you're had bad pain day, you know, it's like that. Yeah.

No, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

And I think that's a really challenging.

There's some, like challenging mental gymnastics that have to take place in order to, to allow that to happen. Hundred percent used to it? Or, you know, and

I don't I personally, don't know if I could do it without my medication. Really, I don't know, for me personally, because I've been for so long, and it's never happened. So it's just like, it's hard. Because during this one specific week in my life, so many components of my life changed. So I don't know which one of those components is really responsible for what, but the you know, they're a team, I guess they just all work together.

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like they're different parts of yourself, that needed to be cared for. And yeah, maybe the medication is kind of caring for a part of yourself, but it was kind of like, Okay, I'm taking care of now I move on to like being supportive of this part. You know, I mean, I really think that way sometimes, and try to keep that in mind for myself. Because when we become like you, I can really relate to what you're saying about becoming so identified with your productivity and your ability to be a caretaker that, you know, if you have to cancel on a client, you, it's almost as if you have you as a total totality have failed, you know, but if you break pieces apart, you're really succeeding on the self care front.

Yeah. And like, If I don't take care of myself, my job's not going to be here. So yep, good. And also like, bringing unfortunate bringing capitalism into that, it's just like, those, those don't go hand in hand. And so it's so hard to break out of that mindset, and to really give yourself permission to slow down and stop working and stop your productivity, regardless of who you're letting down. Because you have, you know, who knows 60 more years to live on this planet? You know, one fucking week, one day, whatever, is shouldn't dictate how you're going to the rest of your life, in pain or whatever. Yeah,

yeah, I get that. So I guess I want to make sure I ask you one more question. And then sure, then we'll sort of hear a little bit more about how people can find you. Okay. So if you could go back and say something to a younger part of yourself, what might that part or younger version of yourself needed? need to hear?

Man?

Like, there's like, thousands of things. And honestly, it's just like,

Don't I have this so cliche, but just don't worry. You know, I was so anxious as a child. And I'd an end to be a kid, be a kid, you know, really, you you will be taken care of, even if it's you're taking care of yourself, and you can still take care of yourself and experience the joys of and the freedom of being a child.

And, yeah, I think that alone would maybe change how I experienced living in my body.

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. How can people find you more about you and your life and your work? Sure.

I'm gonna talk to her and so you can find my body of work on both my website and my Instagram. My Instagram is at TU Lee and it's TALEIGH and my website is to lead calm. And I co own a studio called Welcome home. That's welcome home studio, both on the web and on Instagram, and you can find my work and other people I work with their

cool yeah,

definitely check it out. Okay. So thank you TI really appreciate it.

Thank you so much, Asher. This is so fun. Cool.

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