Alex, Austin Rempel, Brian Murphy, Cassie Mellon, Cecil Rich, Colin Powers, Deanna, Fernanda Dávila, Frédéric GRUFFAZ, Gus Wathen, Jose Baer, Joseph Wheaton, joshua gilbert, Kait Schultz, Kelly Whitehead, Lindsay R, Lukas McGee, Mariah McIntosh, Mary, Michael Blazewicz, Nate T, Nicole Cordingley, Owen Richardson, Philip Bailey, read.ai meeting notes, Rémi Bourru, Rob Zabrowski, Sara Owen, Serge's Notetaker, suzanne husky, Tara O'Rourke, Taryn Contento, Toni Ruth, Water Technician, Zach Burgert
Joseph Wheaton: If you're here, I'm guessing you all know what Curious is, Rimmerscape Studio. And I'm also guessing Thanks, Lindsay. I'm also guessing you probably know something about riverscapes, something about low tech process based restoration. and you've at least heard of what Curious can do if not maybe used it. Just by a show of hands with the little hand icon that's kind of on that lower tray for you in your screen. how many of you have actually used Curious
Joseph Wheaton: Okay, we're getting there. All that's helpful. Thank you. So, if you haven't used Curious, there are some other things that you might find useful. but, there's some other webinars and stuff. So, I'm going to put this in the chat. I'm going to put two URLs in the chat. So one this is the curious website and you'll see that where we're going to be going today under tutorials and under webinars we are going to be talking about protocols and so everything that we will cover here there's going to be reference to other stuff I'm assuming you've had an introduction to curious if not you can go back and fill some of that from this website what I will be doing
Joseph Wheaton: is we're going to be using an example data set. a few of you might have been on the BLM TNC sort of workshop last week. it's the same demo that we used there. If folks want to look at those, they can check out these slides and that recording there. But this is the slide deck that we'll be using and any of you can use it to I don't know teach your friends whatever at some time. and we're going to be talking about how we do basically data capture and analysis inside of Riverscape Studio. And really the key to doing that are protocols. So we got to kind of understand what those BLM has sponsored these webinar series and it's the main funer of the development of the Rescape Studio software to its current form.
Joseph Wheaton: If anybody has any questions at any time, go ahead and ask. Colin, is that a raised hand from my views curious or you've got a question? No. Okay, perfect. you guys can raise your hands or just chime in. if you put something in the chat, I'll try and…
Joseph Wheaton: keep an eye on that, but I'll have Nicole our comps lead and, Josh interrupt me if I'm missing that. So, go ahead.
Zach Burgert: Hey,…
Zach Burgert: Joe. Could you just hide the little bar at the bottom?
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah. Yeah.
Zach Burgert: Could you just hide that? Thank you.
Joseph Wheaton: Appreciate that. And if I'm missing anything or talking about something I think you're seeing on the screen and you're not seeing it, please chime in, Zach, and help me out there. so what we want to do is make sure that folks are comfortable with the concept of protocols.
Joseph Wheaton: And we're going to think of that as a way that we enforce consistency in doing design asbuilts, reporting, as well as monitoring of potentially, riverscape health. And what the protocols really cover is, data collection, sort of this creation through data capture events, and then this analysis stuff that you can use in reporting. So, we'll look at what's a protocol and we'll spend up to the half hour part part really just focusing on I'm a regular user. this will spill over and the recording will be there afterwards into our office hours. but for our regular users, it's just like, that's great. There's a protocol. How do I use it? And the way you really use it are layers and what we call data capture events.
Joseph Wheaton: So this is basically giving you pre-formatted layers and then you can go ahead and populate those in your data capture events and once you've gone to that effort then that opens you up to being able to calculate metrics from those. if you're a little more curious than that and you want to look under the hood what's under act what are these protocols that will spill over into office hours and talk a little bit about and then if you are a power user and you're like hey I don't like your protocol Joe or I don't like your protocols I really hate that you used a pastel pink and I would rather use a lime green or I really don't like that these are the choices that you
Joseph Wheaton: have for this particular attribute. I would like to add, this particular name that I've given to my low tech structure. Knock yourself out. You can modify and author your own protocols. And we'll even talk very briefly about how you can share those. So, that's kind of an overview where we're going. when we get down in the weeds and you start getting lost, just remember the protocols are controlling how layers show up And then what layers are in there then is going to control how we can calculate metrics. And so low tech process space restoration there's tons of ways to do things. in GIS that's almost the problem. you can do so many different things and then you have the added fun of if you're a GIS user you expect it to crash all the time. with this I mean here people are building some zike structures.
Joseph Wheaton: Looks like maybe this is a one rock dam Maybe up here is a zouri bowl. And then that's great. There's a lot of ways to build those. you're building it, but now you're the person who's either making a design or documenting with an asbuilt. What do you record? Do I just, put a point on the map, for these structures? Do I, instead maybe draw a crest of this? do I have an attribute field that is like this one's a zouri bowl and this one's a one rock dam are there other attributes those are the sorts of choices that are behind the protocols okay and so while we want to have room for flexibility in how you implement these things whether it's a point or a line what attributes what we need are some standards and this is something that we've worked hard on in the riverskate consortium because
Joseph Wheaton: We believe if we sort of have some of those standards there and available, it's going to make it easier for us to share our information with each other. the whole fair principles, the findable, accessible, interoperable, that things talk together and reusable. as opposed to what I would argue is the standard of practice for both scientists as well as practitioners. Scientists aren't much better on this, which is, whatever garbage we collect on the back of a napkin or maybe we shove it in some spreadsheet, god knows where that is. and then that information is just lost in our rat's nest of a file system. We are trying to overcome some of and that protocols as well as Riverscape Studio play into this. So, the way we deliver that flexibility, but with some of the necessary consistency that we desire is protocols.
Joseph Wheaton: And really what curious is doing the sort of value proposition on this is that ing are taking care of some of the housekeeping. It's very easy to get cluttered and disorganized in GIS. we're setting up a project in a Rescape Studio project that you can come back to over time and keep contributing to it with additional data capture events, additional plans, designs as builts. we're making it easier to consistently perform analyses. So if there's a metric that you're interested in, not having to work so hard to calculate that metric every time someone goes back out to a site, allow you to share those projects with each other or share them in a very specific way. I put it up in the data exchange, but it's private and I only share it with a collect a select few people.
Joseph Wheaton: And then if I've done these things not just at the project scale but I have lots of projects across a program or an organization then I have the ability to do some meta analysis. So this is flexibility and protocols are one of the ways we get there. So let's dive in. How do I actually use a protocol? Before I do any questions or clarifications so far? Make sure to actually pause long enough somebody can chime in. those on the development team or the support team. Anybody want to clarify anything?
Zach Burgert: No, I was just going to say it sounded all good to me.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah, I hear ach. All you're welcome for the awkward silence. so, you're a regular user. How are you going to use these protocols? first off, what is a protocol?
Joseph Wheaton: A lot of us are familiar with some of the instream habitat monitoring protocols. there's things like PIBO ARMP that have been around for quite some time. these are field-based protocols. there's also protocols for maybe how you do analysis etc. And so what we're talking about here in Rivercape Studio is a little bit different. It's more along the lines of you could write protocols for how to grab some of the data out of some of these things and then perform subsequent analysis of it. But we are focused on what is the sort of housekeeping of that data, what formats it's in and what metrics can be calculated.
Joseph Wheaton: Also, a lot of those protocols are very specific maybe if I turn on the pin here, a specific little reach of channel and maybe that's what you capture. And what we really want are protocols that are going to speak to the entire riverscape or produce metrics that speak to the whole system. we can produce channel-based metrics as well but it's important we have this sort of definition of riverscapes being the part of the landscape that could plausibly flood in the contemporary natural flow regime and if you look across the lower 48 that's 20% of the land surface it's a huge area now functionally what's still actually active channel and flood planes is probably closer to 3 to 5%.
Joseph Wheaton: So what's a curious protocol? you access these things in data capture events. What the protocol actually is a XML text file. That's really all it is. we'll look at that a little bit later, but what it does through Curious is when you're in a project and you're in your project tree and you've got these data capture events, you can rightclick on those data capture events. And we'll go illustrate this in a moment. and then you can create either a regular data capture event or a special one like a LTBR design or an LTR asbuilt. And then what happens is in that data capture event you have the option to then add layers that are going to be included in that container.
Joseph Wheaton: And those layers what the protocol does is are they a point a line a polygon what's the symbology what attributes are there what metrics can then subsequently be calculated for it. Okay so that's a curious protocol as well as the supporting documentation. Now, some of you are probably familiar with the low tech process space restoration version two protocol which is the first protocol that was plumbed into curious and this confused people because they thought what we were trying to say is this is the only way this is what you have to do in terms of how you monitor these things and so here I'm just showing you where you can go download the PDF this is kind of what people often think of as a protocol All
Joseph Wheaton: This is a mix of field and desktop based. you can use a hybrid or either of those. And then at what do we include? there was a lot of stuff in here because it was including design and planning and asbuilts and data capture events. and then people would say things like I don't like the color you used on this or I don't like that. And same answers before. I don't Make your own. So now that we have the protocol library, it's actually very easy for people to contribute more protocols or you can just have one on your machine or one that you just use with your colleagues. So that's kind of pretty exciting. So now the way you're going to access those like we said it's going to be right click on some of these things. Whoops. And we're off to the races.
Joseph Wheaton: So one of the motivations that we can use here for this is one of our principles of riverscape health and one of those is riverscapes need how much space? So if you map your valley bottom then we could map within it the active flood planes maybe inactive flood planes. And a lot of you probably seen this sequence. So, I'm not going to, delay labor, but it's basically, okay, there's the pathetic little flood plane, and maybe I want a metric that's like what's the proportion that is active channel and active flood plane of that whole riverscape of that whole valley bottom, or what's the proportion that's inactive because this is the space in which maybe there's some restoration opportunity, for example. So, that's just one sort of very common example.
Joseph Wheaton: is indeed one of BLM's motivations is, how can we get more of these sort of hydrated up sponges at the expense of some of these desiccated valley bottoms. and so what we're talking about here as an example is using a protocol in Rivercape Studio to move from just conceptually that to okay if we want to quantitatively map that or we want to make some estimates of it, how do we do it? So there's some things here in the slides that I'll sort of leave for you that are just kind of these basic steps. you're going to get your event. You're going to contextualize that data capture event. You're going to pick and choose the layers that you want. then you got some empty containers or layers. And then you're going to digitize. I'm going to leave those there up on the screen.
Joseph Wheaton: There's also a recording that sort of walks you through in a little more detail those and you can kind of go back to those as a reference. But let's just go do this because I think that will be a little easier than our death by PowerPoint. So I'm going to open up a project that I downloaded is this Wall Creek demo. While that's opening, I'll just scroll up here and that you can download from the data exchange right here if you're interested.
Joseph Wheaton: And it loaded up. There's my curious sort of project here. And so what we've got is a curious project's already been prepopulated. Josh has that other webinar that kind of goes through how we populated a lot of this stuff, particularly in the inputs. And so what I'm going to do is just bring in one of these layers. this is the mapping of the valley bottom that Josh covered there.
Joseph Wheaton: for a little bit of context. And I might also bring in a higher resolution drone image so those are the two things that I've got. I'm going to turn off that for just a moment. And now we're going to cut right into how do I use a protocol? there's already a few data capture events here, but if you just want to start from scratch, you're basically going to add either a new data capture event or a new design or asbuilt. So, I add a new data capture event. And this is the bit that has to do with protocols. And so, each of these is a protocol. And if I wouldn't advise this, but if you're doing this on your own, you're probably not going to see this many. The reason I'm seeing all those protocols is because in my settings, and you can adjust this, too. I have experimental protocols on.
Joseph Wheaton: And so if I have that off and you come in and you make a data capture event you'll see that there's only three.
Joseph Wheaton: So we have this idea of you can test protocols that are up but only if you've got the experimental sort of change that turned on. There's another pretty cool feature that Kelly's plumbed in here which is Go ahead.
Nicole Cordingley: Hey Joe,…
Nicole Cordingley: we've got a question in the chat.
Nicole Cordingley: Curious protocol equals data standard.
Joseph Wheaton: Exactly.
Joseph Wheaton: It's a standard for how we're going to have this geospatial data that's associated with data capture events that you want to repeat through time. and then once we have that standard, then that opens us up to be able to calculate metrics. So, in this context, that's a good way of putting it.
Joseph Wheaton: Phillip, looks like you've got an answer there,…
Philip Bailey: Yeah, I was just trying to try a different set of words just to help folks.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah,…
Philip Bailey: I think of it a protocol is a collection of feature class definitions that users can pick from. They don't have to do all the feature classes, but they can pick feature classes from that protocol. And those feature classes come with attribute definitions and associated metrics. And you can think of it almost like a PowerPoint slide template, right? Which often has definitions for each different type of screen or slide you want. You can cherrypick from that collection from that template what you're going to digitize.
Joseph Wheaton: that's really helpful. Thanks, Philip.
Joseph Wheaton: So when we are accessing this data capture event is nothing to get too sort of excited about. it's an empty container right and if I move away from the protocols for a second basically it can represent a snapshot in time or a date range. So it could be this year or you could drill down to it's September 22nd. it could be based off of field or desktop observations and you can associate it with a particular riverscape. So in this case we got this Wall Creek Valley bottom. you can also reference for example that high resolution imagery that I have there or maybe some LAR that I've brought in. And so you can give it a name.
Joseph Wheaton: So, my example, DCE 20 25, whatever you want to call it. And then you're just going and you're going to say put in maybe I'll grab a couple of layers here. Maybe I'll put in a beaver dam from this beaver census protocol. And maybe I'll bring in from this experimental protocol that Josh covered in the TNC webinar. I'll bring in geomorphic units. So what happens now is I get this empty container my example and then it's got these two empty layers.
Joseph Wheaton: So if we just start with this one, we'll add it to the map. And you'll notice that it's come in, it's empty. And the way I can start you using that layer from that protocol is I just start editing that layer. And then I can draw a feature. So let's see. I think there actually is a beaver dam right there. And so I can say that my confidence in that is, medium and it looks to be an active dam. Right. And then I can go over here
Joseph Wheaton: And I don't know. This one looks like a little dam on a side channel to me. looks like a beaver hot tub. I'm got low confidence in that. And yeah, I don't know. So notice that the symbology based off the attribute choices is different for these two. and then those choices, maybe you don't like this, maybe you want a different label or different attribute choices. That's what's controlled in a protocol. And so when you're going to a protocol, this one I can click on the layer details and then it will have a link that should take me to the protocol itself. and then you can, look more at some of those choices. And so, if I switch back over to the website here, I'm going to bring up under technical reference protocols.
Joseph Wheaton: And so there's a protocol library here. I can go into DCE and I could drill down into, a Beaver Census page that is not populated. How fun. but I can go to this one that is populated. This is what we'll look at next. And it goes through and has a little summary how to use it. usually a couple little demos and then all the definitions of the layers that are included. what the attribute choices that are there and what metrics can be calculated. So collectively that's a protocol. So what we've covered right here is one example of how to populate using a point-based layer.
Joseph Wheaton: And so I can save my edits to this toggle editing and maybe let's bring in this other one. So I can add that to the map. Now this is different. I'd probably want to look at the documentation say what is it that this is asking me to do? But this is sort of tier one geomorphic editing. sort of mapping the building blocks of your valley bottom and adjacent geomorphic units. So if I toggle editing notice that one instead of a point is a polygon. And so, I don't know, maybe I think that what I've got here is, a little side channel, along there. Not doing a great job, but I can call that an active channel, right? And I can start mapping different features here. Okay.
Joseph Wheaton: Another thing that's really handy with the editing and curious of these things is you can make a layer from entirely digitizing or you can make it from importing features. And so I've got a feature class where Josh I've stolen this from him. He's already gone and he's mapped a bunch of these things. And so I think I have that buried in the very intuitive downloads folder. And I've just got that as a little gojson, just a feature class. And so then I'm importing it onto the same layer that has one feature that I drew by hand right now.
Joseph Wheaton: And you can bring in all of what this is doing is saying, right, I'm going to import from this feature class into this data capture event. If I want to clip it, I can. I'm not going to do that right now. And I'm going to put it on this geomorphic unit layer. And I can import all the fields that are there. So I hold on to them like a packrat because maybe I like the attributes that Josh had in there. But the real key thing here is being able to So I'm going to assign from this type field that's in there and I'm going to use that to map on to that type that was our choice that we were mapping here. Right? So this is telling me that in that feature class that I'm bringing in there's three types and then I'm going to add this to geomorphic unit type and then I get to choose from what's actually in that protocol. And so here they're exactly the same but maybe I spelled channel wrong over here.
Joseph Wheaton: Or maybe I'd called it instead of active channel I just called it channel. So I'm mapping those things on and to these different attributes and that's going to control how they get symbolized. And so now I can hit And now that's brought in those feature classes and it's brought in I think I might have done that wrong because of the color but we'll just pretend. but this brings in an import of those things So now there's 10 features and it's retained all the attributes that were in the original file here. So I can go through use So any questions on that? Basically we created container the data capture event.
Joseph Wheaton: We choose a few layers from notice that in the one data capture event we actually mixed and…
Joseph Wheaton: matched from different protocols but there's the layers that we used and then we started editing those to just populate them or we could import stuff externally that I have from whatever field mapper survey 123 Q field or some other work that you've already done. Questions on that because that's the kind of meat of how you populate stuff. Yeah, go ahead.
Nicole Cordingley: Joe. Yeah.
Nicole Cordingley: You said that you might look at the documentation of the protocol before you start populating. Where would you find that?
Joseph Wheaton: So we got a Zach, can you update those URLs so this is going to the right page? But in the protocol, the URL link would take you to this. This isn't entirely wrong because it is described in this design manual.
Joseph Wheaton: But what we're looking for on those is it will take us and actually there's two places that you can get to those. the other is when you're in one of these, you can rightclick so here's the LTBR and I go to layer details and that I can bring up those sorts of links. also if I just go over to the help site and if I don't remember how to navigate down through I can just, look for protocols. and here's some protocols. And so that geomorphic mapping is right So there's a bunch of ways that you can navigate to those. And we will fix the plumbing of some of these so that it's taking you right across from the software.
Joseph Wheaton: other questions. It's So, let's come back here and we will get to there. All right. metrics there's a motivation here. Those of you that have gone through some of the trainings we talk about these metric and indicator tables and really if you're familiar with these basically the rows are individual metrics. So maybe that one that we were mentioning about space the proportion of the valley bottom that's active or maybe I've mapped beaver dams and it could be a beaver dam count or beaver dam density dams per mile of riverscape.
Joseph Wheaton: These are the rows and then the columns are essentially just your data capture events. So this would be looking at this through time or at a different design phase. And so what we'd like to be able to do is not have to manually populate these things by hand. We'd like to be able to use this software to be estimating some of those numbers. so if we take this is from the recent Riverscape health paper we take one of these ideas any of them it might relate to different indicators or metrics that we might use to approximate that concept of riverscape health. That might be an idea that we have. And so
Joseph Wheaton: So if there's a metric out of there, it's like, if I mapped the active channel and active flood plane, and I have the area, and I compare that to my riverscape, the valley bottom, I could calculate proportions. and so what you need to calculate metrics, you access these through analyses, and analyses are in the tree. We'll go take a look in just a second here. You create an analysis, and in order to actually run one, you have to have two things to start. You need to have at least one data capture event. If I only have one data capture event, you only get one column. So, it's not a very exciting table. but if you got multiple things, then you're going to start getting multiple columns. And then you need sample frames. And so on the left here, here's, a sample frame that's broken into an upstream and a downstream reach. Or here, maybe I have my whole reach, that's my study reach, but then I've chopped it up into smaller pieces so I can look at downstream patterns.
Joseph Wheaton: And what's going to happen is in this one, if this was my sample frames, I would have two tables, one for each of those. And in this one, I don't know, there's 20 of these things. And so I'd actually get 20 of those tables. The way you set this up, is you create a new analysis and you tell it what's the, sample frame. You tell it the valley bottom. if you've got a DM that you're using, you can do that. And then it's going to look at the data capture events you've got and it's going to say, "Okay, I'm looking at those and I'm looking at your protocols and these are the metrics I might be able to calculate." And then you can go through and say, " that's fine. I'm going to calculate a metric." Indicator is really just a metric that you're elevating in importance. and then there's some other things and I'm not going to bother to try and calculate those. And then you calculate it. You can do it one data capture event at a time or you can do them all at once.
Joseph Wheaton: And similarly you can do it one sample frame at a time or all at once. And then it's going in and there's this little analysis interface that you can go and sort of interrogate and look at those and you can switch the units, you can put uncertainty estimates on it, you can fill things in with manual overrides or estimates etc. And then it allows us to do two things. And so I'm going to one is if I have multiple data capture events I can look at things through time like I am here on the right. So I can look at a particular metric and see how that's changing and maybe contextualize that by this is when we had a big flood and then this is when we put a bunch of restoration structures for example. and then the other way you can look at that is through space.
Joseph Wheaton: So where there's three sample frames moving downstream and how does a metric in this case proportion of active valley bottom change in space. Okay, so that's how you do that. And really I create an analysis. It's a right click away. That's that one dialogue I was showing I'm just going to jump ahead to one that Josh has already created here for us. And there's this little viewer.
Joseph Wheaton: So you can choose okay there in this one I only have one slice in time so the time is not interesting but I can look at it over the riverscape and then I can choose so maybe it's like dam count right and so this isn't too profound this is like okay there was one beaver dam maybe we'll change that to a bar plot all those things get controlled in the protocol And so you can sort of switch through and take a look at different things there and you can go into any of these and you can update with a manual value you can put uncertainty estimates on these things. You can put some notes about what you thought you saw etc etc.
Joseph Wheaton: So it's quite a rich sort of interface and we're going to stop here and then we're going to spend a little time in office hours how you actually do these. I'm going to show you an XML and off we go. But this is the basics of you've got protocols. there's a bunch to choose from and this is what's going to kind of enforce consistency within a project. and dictate what metrics can get calculated and then hopefully also across projects if multiple people are using similar protocols.
Joseph Wheaton: So, any questions thus far? Because I want to give people a chance to bow out, right now, at the just over 35 minute mark and…
Joseph Wheaton: then, those of you that would self-identify as more curious or an opinionated dork can stay on.
Philip Bailey: Joe, I'll just use this opportunity to say that we recognize that protocols evolve over time and…
Philip Bailey: that the attribute mapper that you were showing is a really good way of bringing data that was maybe captured on an earlier version of a protocol, Maybe it has different categories in one of the attributes or it has different attributes altogether that you can take that data and move it forward into newer versions of the protocol. Joe showed you having multiple layers in a data capture event from different protocols.
Philip Bailey: So as the protocols evolve your data can move forwards with it. You also have the abil Yeah,…
Joseph Wheaton: So one evolution for example on mapping of geomorphic units is I don't know someone changes a name or…
Philip Bailey: go ahead. That's right.
Joseph Wheaton: adds another category right and…
Philip Bailey: Yeah. Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: so that's exactly where you get to make that update with that choice. So, it's a really good point, Philip. And you can build one and…
Philip Bailey: We've also supported the ability to have experimental protocols. So you can kind of keep it private and be developing one yourself without having to share it with the entire curious community. You can also deprecate protocols when they expire etc. So we've done some thinking a little bit about the life cycle of protocols.
Joseph Wheaton: we'll show you right now.
Joseph Wheaton: I mean, sort of take the magic out of it. It's nothing crazy, but just locally and test it and use it and just, keep that for yourself and it's just you having your routine. and that's totally fine. but if you're someone that's part of a larger organization or that's involved in managing a big program or say someone that is putting out RFPs and you want to make sure that the data that you're getting back from your contractors is consistent. this allows you to thou shalt collect with this one right for example. Any other questions or comments?
Joseph Wheaton: Cool. Yeah.
joshua gilbert: I just have a quick comment, with the protocols, we're not necessarily enforcing how you t consistency and how you as an organization or…
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah. Yeah.
joshua gilbert: as a group digitize these things and find consistency across your network. it's just enforcing consistency on the attributes and the layers and the metrics and the best practices are you kind of more left up to you.
Joseph Wheaton: And you can do really smart and clever things and you can do really stupid things. and it's setting it up so you can hopefully do smart things and clever things and reproducible things.
Joseph Wheaton: But, I mean, if you make a layer for geomorphic units and you decide to populate that with, I don't know, subdivision, maps of parcels, yeah, of course, it's going to be incoherent nonsense. So, there's real enforcement on that side of things. so already mentioned that these protocols where you can kind of control some of these settings and access stuff. what I haven't showed is this. And so, this is this resource folder. So, you can actually go see all the protocols that Curious ships with. And so in order to use Rivercape Studio you have to have that toolbar as well as the Rivercape's viewer toolbar. And the viewer syncs regularly through this update resources with a GitHub repository which is where the sort of shared versions of these protocols exist.
Joseph Wheaton: And if you go to the find resources folder right here, drag this over, this has the symbology and the business logic that makes the viewer shine, but it also has a curious folder. And in that folder is protocols. And so we were looking at that geomorphic unit protocol. I think it's this one right here. If I open that up, I'm going to open up in Visual Studio Code, which is free. my god, this is so scary. it's not that scary. really, even if you've never looked at XML, this is text and you can read it. so there's a piece at the top here that's the version of this, that's why it's still experimental. the label that's going to show up, which is what you're seeing in the tree there. There's a description.
Joseph Wheaton: this is the link where I need to paste in that correct link etc. But then there's these two parts layers and metrics. So I wasn't lying to you. so under layers then it's just what do I have for layers here? it looks like I've got two layers. so I've got this one and that's the geomorphic unit one that we're using. And then there's another one This one's of type polygon. And that's the margins. And then the fields, right? That's controlling those choices. So maybe instead of active channel, I just wanted it to read channel. I could make that edit and save my own protocol, that's doing that. And then down below are the metrics. And yeah, there's a bunch of, sort of header stuff, but when it comes down to it, it's what are the layers that you want to use to calculate something from.
Joseph Wheaton: And then we have a couple of different types of things that can be So lengths, counts, etc. And then those can be combined with other things to calculate a metric. So that's what's underneath the hood. And hopefully the web page tells you enough about what's there that you don't need to necessarily read the XML. But if you want to go in and you want to have a play or author your own that's really where they're controlled. it's not a big secret or anything or something you have to be a really clever programmer to use. there's also documentation on how to go ahead and do that sort of stuff.
Joseph Wheaton: And…
Joseph Wheaton: if you go ahead, Philip. so
Philip Bailey: Joe, sorry.
Philip Bailey: I'll just mention if you do want to have a play with protocols, rather than editing these XML files in this folder, I recommend copying the XML file into the same folder as your Curious project and experimenting it with it that folder is continuously synchronized with GitHub and your changes could get trampled. The best place is to put it next to a project like Joe's doing here, next to that GIO package four files up. And this is the first place a curious that the protocol library looks for protocol. So it will see this local copy and you can make all the changes here. When you're happy with it, if you ever get to this stage, you can contribute that back to GitHub as a pull request and…
Philip Bailey: we can review that and approve it into the main protocol library. But yeah, the safest way to edit protocols is to put the protocol next to the project.
Joseph Wheaton: And if you get one that you're sort of on that in between space…
Joseph Wheaton: where you don't want to have to copy that to every single project folder, that's where you can specify another folder on your machine that is where you have your sort of local protocols. Okay, so you probably didn't think you were going to have to, suffer through some Whoops, where are Suffer through not only death by PowerPoint, but looking at XML, but there we are.
Joseph Wheaton: There's a technical reference on this and what we've tried to do if you're someone that's just going to be a sort of curious user, you're coming in and you're doing your plans, your designs or your monitoring you can use existing protocols. if you're someone who wants to make your own then there's pathways to do that and documentation and our support team can help you. And really your protocols are controlling the layers as well as metrics that can be calculated. And if we get to a point where there are so many of you contributing protocols that list is too long and we have to improve the user interface so you can select which ones you want to see that will be success. so that's it for what we wanted to kind of get across.
Joseph Wheaton: There are comments, questions, anything? And then after we get through this, we'll stop the recording and then if other people are here for regular office hours and they would like to ask questions about doesn't have to be curious or protocol specific, but anything they need help with, we're here for Kate Schultz, haven't seen you for a while. All right. thank you everybody for your attention and I'm not hearing any questions, so I'm going to stop the recording, but we'll stick around. The team will be here, and if you've got questions, we are happy to answer them.
Joseph Wheaton: What's up, Colin?
Colin Powers: I think I need to go back and do a bunch of prior tutorials to catch up with where you are right now on Curious, but I look forward to doing it. we are now having gotten some structures installed. Now it's monitoring time.
Joseph Wheaton: Awesome. yeah,…
Colin Powers: So, I look forward to c doing the data capture and starting the analysis. we're in dry periods, so this fall will really mean we're going to be out there a whole bunch to see what the reaction is.
Joseph Wheaton: I was excited to see both your expanded report and the entry on PBR explorer and yeah I mean at a minimum probably the easiest places there's this getting started in curious and…
Colin Powers: Yeah. Thanks,
Joseph Wheaton: then there's also this BLM and TNC workshop that Austin Rimple and who was on the call I don't know if he's still here no and Alden have been organizing but
Joseph Wheaton: those ones kind of walk you through but it's make an empty container make an empty asbuilt plop plop there's your structures…
Colin Powers: Yep.
Joseph Wheaton: if you already recorded them in something else even Google Earth that's fine you can import from a KMZ so it's pretty straightforward …
Colin Powers: No, I think I should be able to do that. And I'm going to work. We've got a Essex County purchases the high resolution pictometry I think one foot resolution photography and…
Joseph Wheaton: nice. …
Colin Powers: I got to figure out how to integrate that as my base map because then I can really dive in. Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: so let me just share the screen again here. So once you have that as a raster, right, you can obviously just drag it in.
Joseph Wheaton: So you can bring it into any map document but really it's just import an existing raster surface. that's where you bring those in and…
Joseph Wheaton: then once you bring those in I'll just be lazy here so I don't have to go find one. you can specify what it is. So if that was a drone or a satellite. and…
Colin Powers: Mhm. That's the one I want to reference.
Joseph Wheaton: then you can specify the acquisition date. put in some metadata and descriptions on it and then that's there and it's accessible to you. So when you're down in a regular data capture event, you can say, "Right, that was a surface.
Joseph Wheaton: that I Yeah.
Colin Powers: That's great. That's cool.
Joseph Wheaton: which it's just housekeeping, right? …
Colin Powers: Yeah. Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: so you get hit by a bus and so someone picks it up and is trying to figure out what you did. This is just trying to make that a little easier. but yeah,…
Colin Powers: That's awesome.
Joseph Wheaton: we've got office hours 11:30 every Monday. So, if you're getting going on any of that stuff, feel free to yeah,…
Colin Powers:
Colin Powers: I will do.
Joseph Wheaton: come in and join Need some help. Cool. yeah,…
Colin Powers: Thank you so much. That's great. That's awesome. Yeah, we're excited to have that project under our belt. That's for sure.
Joseph Wheaton: that's great. cool, Kate. Yeah. How have you been? Okay.
Kait Schultz: I have some questions about VBET. so pivoting …
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah, absolutely.
Kait Schultz: if that's okay.
Joseph Wheaton: I'll go find a VBAT project. I'm sure I got some garbage somewhere.
Kait Schultz: Yeah. Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah, fire away.
Kait Schultz: So, with summer with all our cat and brat and stuff, you guys have designated ramps of good and less good rank bins. And so, I think I just wanted to talk through what we're looking for out of VBET.
Kait Schultz: I'm doing some projects of trying to target areas for LTPBR and using VBAT to find places that aren't insized beyond belief, which I'm sure is the entire purpose. So, yeah. Yeah. from army.
Joseph Wheaton: are you doing that from VBAT or…
Joseph Wheaton: from So, I could go for here and there's a new little feature that Kelly added that's kind of fun. It's actually exists both in here, browse data exchange projects, but then there's also this little button over here on the viewer.
Joseph Wheaton: And all that does is it opens up in the data exchange a little search right where we're at. And so then you can go and see, …
Kait Schultz: My god.
Joseph Wheaton: all of the many projects that are in this particular area. There's another pathway which is if I actually just go to that specific project in the data exchange, you can get to RME. So I'm going to do that.
Joseph Wheaton: So I have metric engine also for this. now was this I don't want that because those are old billip.
joshua gilbert: I think just switch to a Huck 10 project.
Joseph Wheaton: All Okay, that'll work. Just download that.
Philip Bailey: Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: What's your specific question on this one?
Kait Schultz: Yeah. I guess my question is a little bit understanding the different parameters of is…
Kait Schultz: what you guys define as the lowlying valley bottom. what could be accessible with…
Joseph Wheaton: Hey, heat.
Kait Schultz: if there was a LTPBR placed there or is the entire valley bottom I think I was oscillating between using the lowline valley bottom percentage no I think it was rio or the full blood plane ratio That's it.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah. I mean VBET actually calculates a likelihood, And so when you're looking at just these guys, all they are is just a threshold.
Joseph Wheaton: And you can differentiate valley bottoms that have quite a lot of relatively high stuff. so more yellow than green and blue. That is not the only sort of indication of I mean that's just one line of evidence of that potentially being active.
Kait Schultz: Please watch.
Joseph Wheaton: And there may be areas that you're specifically targeting for restoration because it seems feasible that it's a narrow little green, but we think we can get out into that yellow. So, the question we ask of it, we've got to be a little bit careful on some of these.
Joseph Wheaton: I mean, so I think what you're asking is should I use just the lowlying or should I use the whole thing? And I guess use for what? I mean are you try because the logic might be that if I want to go work in some really easier areas I might go look for areas where I do have a bunch of lowlying but we could look at another layer like the riparian extent and the riparian isn't that much there and…
Kait Schultz: Yeah, I guess that's
Kait Schultz: My Okay.
Joseph Wheaton: so you might think that that's great but that might also just point to what do we need to do for example for
Joseph Wheaton: grazing management in order to get some of those. I mean, so there's different ways you could sort of, parse this. Or you might go, hey, these are areas where I do have some insized channels, but the yellow is in areas where I've got lots of elbow room that I could start eating into those and I think I could get some uplift. And that might not be as quick of a return, but it might be something that's well worth doing. So, I mean, I know that you're supposed to be doing stuff for the whole state, of Colorado, but it kind of depends on what specific question you're trying to ask of those. I can show you if you like in that RME project or any RM project really. some of the different layers that we often use on that if that's helpful.
Kait Schultz: show. And…
Joseph Wheaton: Okay.
Kait Schultz: then I think another thing I was getting stuck on is along the channel length of a DGO. how is that determined of is the width of the flood plane. But how do we know I guess what the length along the channel of a deep
Joseph Wheaton: So I'm not 100%
Philip Bailey: That's the segmentation distance Kate which is a function of drainage area. So we have a function…
Philip Bailey: which segments tributaries and small channels at very fine distances and then increases the distance with larger drainage errors. I don't have the function to hand right now. but that's how you should see it done. Yes.
Kait Schultz: …
Kait Schultz: It's more area for a larger drainage area. Okay.
Joseph Wheaton: And the reason I just brought up this instead of this, so if you're working with some old Bet, see how these DGOs are cut really tightly and then they have some problems in these triangles here on that main stem versus up here, they're looking pretty good. So, in this latest rerun that Jordan just did, he softened, so you can see a lot coarser spacing on those bigger drainage area valley bottoms.
Joseph Wheaton: So that's where those are at. And so, if I bring in I think in DJ we've got drainage area.
Philip Bailey: Oops. So I think I'm looking at the code here and…
Joseph Wheaton: I mean, you can
Joseph Wheaton: You can just about see some of those different Let me turn off the igos where the drainage area thresholds sort of switch over into shorter segmentation distances Thanks.
Kait Schultz: Okay. Yeah.
Philip Bailey: I think he's using an aspect ratio of the g mentation distance is 1.5 times the valley width of the channel. So it's not actually directly tied to drainage area but indirectly. Does that make sense So he calculates the valley width and then he multiplies that by 1.5. I think it might be the average value width of the level path and then he multiplies that by 1.5 to get the segmentation distance for that specific level path.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah, I don't think it's that variable. I think he's putting it into bins,…
Philip Bailey: Okay.
Joseph Wheaton: I think you're right that he did switch from drainage area to using a estimate of the integrated valley bottom width for the whole level path. That part I think you're right on, but I think he is still just using five or…
Joseph Wheaton: six bins.
Joseph Wheaton: So that the DJO spacing that you'll read in the SEG distance is pretty uniform if is that still the level path there's actually Philip the level path is basically each stream am I right Philip did we put that in inputs or…
Kait Schultz: And what's the level path? Let's…
Kait Schultz: Let's do this.
Joseph Wheaton: intermediates I think we symbolized that. No. …
joshua gilbert: It is in new projects, Joe, not old ones. Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: that's the problem is I'm looking at an old project Okay. does it go through to metric engine or…
Kait Schultz: What's up?
Joseph Wheaton: is it only in
Philip Bailey: It is in metric engine. you can think of a level path within Go find the longest route of river through that watershed and then all features along that route are given the same level path code. They're given an arbitrary code. Then it goes to the second longest route through that watershed and it gives all those features that don't already have a level path. It gives them a code.
Kait Schultz: What's up?
Philip Bailey: Then the fifth, etc. So we think of a level path as all the features on a river through the And that's actually how VBET works. It finds the longest route through the wershed and exclusively works on that level path first. And when it's finished,…
Joseph Wheaton: That's it.
Philip Bailey: it then goes to the next longest route through the wershed and then the next, etc. It's actually a concept that originates from the raw NHD data. Okay, it's a USGS concept and there they have good documentation. we should add that to our glossery.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah. I think you're right.
Joseph Wheaton: It's in the attributes. I don't think we have symbology for it though. I thought we did in VBAT though. Josh, am I wrong?
joshua gilbert: I'm looking at one right now. Let you know.
Joseph Wheaton: If you've got one you can share your screen just take over here because I'm bumbling to find one because there's one that basically just by each level path. So it's like, you've got the Missouri main stem and then you've got, Timbuktu Creek as a tributary and then some unnamed tributary. Each of them have their own level paths and we just got it symbolized as different colors so you can just see those real clearly. it's important for VBET because we used to run VBET for the whole watershed all at once.
Joseph Wheaton: the algorithm that basically took the DEM and took the channel area and then we run it for each level path. We were doing fine in VBET for the narrower valleys but the big valleys that had multiple channels and stuff in them, we were having a huge problem in getting the whole valley bottom. And so taking the dominant level path in that valley was the key to being able to get that to work. Josh, you want to explain what you're showing here?
joshua gilbert: So essentially what Philip was explaining. So if you have an NHD line and one of the stream is Fall Creek every stream segment that is on that level path or Fall Creek is basically the start of Fall Creek all the way to the end of Fall Creek. And any tributary coming in has its own level path. And at every tributary coming in, it goes from the shortest point to the longest point and then any tributaries coming into that. It's almost like stream order. You can visualize it kind of the same as stream order except in this case it's by the actual stream itself.
Kait Schultz: Thank you.
joshua gilbert: Not entirely based on order but based on the stream name essentially.
Joseph Wheaton: and it's attributed on the NHD line work that we use as an input and…
Joseph Wheaton: then we just steal it and then retain it for our belly bottoms.
Kait Schultz: Okay. So in summary the DJO the distance between each I guess I don't know is 1.5 times the average valley width along that whole level path. So for the largest stream in the hook 10, that has the longest path will have the same valley bottom average DJ width and…
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah. Yeah.
Kait Schultz: then the smaller streams will have this ending. Okay, perfect. Thank you. Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: And you basically said that correct. we're trying to get an aspect ratio, so that the individual DGOs on average are about, one and a half times, upstream and downstream as the average valley bottom width.
Joseph Wheaton: And so he's calculating that,…
Joseph Wheaton: but then he's using a bin of these sizes. So I think there's only six, Philip. …
Philip Bailey: Yeah, I realize…
Philip Bailey: why you were saying bidding I was looking at the test code. there's a different aspect ratio for different bins of stream sizes.
Joseph Wheaton: would be a wonderful thing to have in both the VBAT manuscript as well as the VBAT docu yeah,…
Philip Bailey: Yeah. let me see if I can just find that. Heritage.
Kait Schultz: Okay. Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: documentation. Yeah.
Kait Schultz: Okay, great. I think I was just trying to explain the distance between the iggo points and what that represented. And then going back to my other question of talking about the lowlying areas are probably closer and require less stages of restoration to get in touch with the water. Right? So those are more the easier fish to fry in restoration.
Kait Schultz: And then the full V depending on I guess with all of this, my intention is to pick priority sites that have I guess the easiest finan the best ratio of financial input to restoration output.
Kait Schultz: And so if there was already a place that we're like, we just really want to restore this area, then you could make it work. But I guess my goal is finding the easiest and cheapest places.
Joseph Wheaton: That's helpful that you have that as a criterion.
Joseph Wheaton: There might be other things you use it's funny. I mean,…
Joseph Wheaton: we use distance to nearest road sometimes as a risk factor, but it might actually be a logistics factor, Because if you is it is it Ed that's having you do these things or…
Kait Schultz: And I don't necessarily know that that's my goal.
Kait Schultz: We're in preliminary stages, but yes.
Joseph Wheaton: Okay.
Joseph Wheaton: You give them crap for not bringing you out to the workshop a few weeks ago.
Kait Schultz: know that's happening.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah. …
Kait Schultz: That sounds fun.
Joseph Wheaton: I mean, this is so I don't know if you saw the announcement, but we did just switch over the classes to remote. and you didn't hear me say this, but whether or not you can actually pay for it or not, because getting, BLM to pay for it,
Kait Schultz: Okay.
Joseph Wheaton: if that last one that's in November that's on the screen and priorization, you should be there and if you can't get them to pay it, just let me know and we'll just give you the link because that we're going to be walking through these and what people want is exactly kind of like you're getting out here's the one filter,…
Joseph Wheaton: the one query they're going to write and it's going to all magically and it's like it isn't
Kait Schultz: It doesn't exist…
Kait Schultz: but as a combination of various things.
Joseph Wheaton: No. Yeah.
Kait Schultz: So the last one is what was it Screening filterization.
Joseph Wheaton: So, here I'll put a yeah. Yeah.
Kait Schultz: Yeah, we're trying to find sites that we can use money from the Forest Service and the BLM's Foundation on the cusp there and so trying to find those I don't know anyways within Yeah. Heat.
Joseph Wheaton: I mean, it's still a worthwhile exercise, and you can still sort of filter down and look at it from different angles. There was a guy on the call, Jose, he signed off. I mean, and they're actually, doing these same things. He's actually just kind of gone through and they've filtered down to 20 private parcels that they're going to be looking at restoration, opportunities So I think if you use probably one of the approaches that we'll kind of emphasize and…
Kait Schultz: Come on.
Joseph Wheaton: Josh I'd be curious because you're playing some of these games too but what you thought your thoughts are but if you use a variety of kind of logic filterings to kind of get at all right here's a subset of things and I don't know maybe you've done that three or four ways with slightly different logic and it keeps kind of highlighting some of the same areas
Joseph Wheaton: then you're kind of starting to go okay these are some of the ones we can have a little more confidence in but the temptation is to have this perfect or some AI logic on this and…
Joseph Wheaton: it's more nuanced and so the value in this is being able to yeah let's just turn off all those that are outside that criterion and these that are outside this but then it's kind of like all right and then how are those intersecting with yeah that's within an hour of the field office and we've got a fuels treatment over here and that sort of stuff. I mean Josh you've probably played the most with some of the R outputs and…
Kait Schultz: Yeah. Yeah,…
Kait Schultz: for sure.
Joseph Wheaton: messing around with that.
Joseph Wheaton: You got any insights?
joshua gilbert: Yeah, I think sometimes first looking at the distribution across an area helps sometimes you have an overly specific question like…
Kait Schultz: Yeah.
joshua gilbert: where in my watershed do I meet this criteria, you might not meet it anywhere. So sometimes it's good to first see what your distribution of values is of the given metric you're looking at. and to get a sense of what you can actually make a query down to what's reasonable there and then I think sometimes it's making aggregations at different scales so rather than query all your individual igos at the iggo scale you could aggregate at the level path scale and…
Joseph Wheaton: Heat.
joshua gilbert: at that scale it might help you across a larger watershed maybe identify streams that have higher potential than other streams and…
Kait Schultz: F***.
joshua gilbert: then you can start, zooming around the stream itself and looking for those opportunities. Whereas I think the more difficult part is sometimes wanting to get zoomed in completely to a reach may be a hard thing to achieve just by filtering. you might get in the right area and then it helps you start looking at other things, zooming around more and figuring it out at a finer scale.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah, no worries.
Kait Schultz: those are really good ideas.
Kait Schultz: Okay, that gives me some more information. Thank you. Okay, I'll head off then. Thank you so much. Bye.
Zach Burgert: Hey Joe,…
Zach Burgert: we got that poll request So hopefully those data links will be updated. So they were updated.
Joseph Wheaton: Sweet.
Joseph Wheaton: Cool. Yeah.
Zach Burgert: It's just they were put in the poll request. They were sort of in limo for the time. but that just got merged.
Joseph Wheaton: …
Zach Burgert: So hopefully all of those will be updated.
Joseph Wheaton: if I just do a update resources, it should be good now. Okay.
Philip Bailey: Maybe,…
Philip Bailey: maybe not. I'll tell you why, There we have a separation between …
Zach Burgert: I'm not seeing it updated.
Philip Bailey: how shall I explain this at the moment of creating layers and metrics? let me you tell me if it's updated and…
Philip Bailey: if it's not, I'll tell you why. So the synchronizing resources will pull down the latest protocol XMLs to your file system,…
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah, either gotcha.
Philip Bailey: but you've already created layers and metrics in your curious geo package. And at that moment that you created those layers and metrics, it sucked in the XML definition for them into the geo package and it doesn't attempt to reuck that in. this comes back to that kind of versioning thing that's kind of an issue. Okay. But anyone…
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah, understood.
Philip Bailey: after synchronizing resources anyone who creates a new layer from this point forwards etc will get the updated link.
Joseph Wheaton: And if I in the same project create a new layer then it should do it.
joshua gilbert: It's I think Joe I think you can create a new data capture event.
Philip Bailey: I don't know the answer to that.
joshua gilbert: I think that all the definitions are tied to the data capture event. So if you have an old project that has this version before the pull request but I think if you create a new data capture event and pull in layers after it's synced I think the data capture event is what stores that information and if it's not…
Joseph Wheaton: Maybe. Yeah.
joshua gilbert: then it is at the project level.
Joseph Wheaton: So, let's just
joshua gilbert: This is the same issue I was running into with Conrad with the dam and…
Zach Burgert: I…
joshua gilbert: jam counts is you have to actually go into the geo package and update because it can't refresh because the versioning issue Philip's talking about
Philip Bailey: Yeah. And Yep.
Zach Burgert: what I'm saying, Josh, is that it did update I had one with metrics for the risk assessment and when I added the geomorphic mapping that updated so that URL is good but when I added another risk assessment protocol like a version two then that was not updating
Philip Bailey: Yeah, Kelly and I took a pretty good stab at this version management stuff at the outset of protocols. I don't think we've got it quite right. It's kind of So, there you go. So, we got to look at it again.
Joseph Wheaton: Okay, that's fair.
Philip Bailey: And frankly, the next version of this will be more permissive. it's a little Draco restrictive right now.
Joseph Wheaton: restrictive. Yeah.
Philip Bailey: So yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah, that's fine. …
Philip Bailey: Nice demo,…
Joseph Wheaton: I Yeah,…
Philip Bailey: Was That was really really good.
Joseph Wheaton: I don't know. sometimes I don't some things invite discussion and…
Nicole Cordingley: Yeah, you did too good of a job being clear.
Joseph Wheaton: some don't. And sometimes as the presenter just got to keep reminding yourself that's fine.
Zach Burgert: What is that?
Joseph Wheaton: that doesn't mean anything. So, …
joshua gilbert: Yeah. I mean, there's a lot to cover in the amount of time you did. You could have gone on for two hours…
Philip Bailey: just look these webinars there's not much you can do in half hour.
joshua gilbert: if you wanted to.
Joseph Wheaton: I don't know about that, but thank you.
Philip Bailey: You're just sewing seeds and planting ideas and…
Joseph Wheaton: That's right.
Philip Bailey: they will just stay in people's heads and…
Philip Bailey: then people will come out of the woodwork when I think I heard that curious can let me design a feature class and then have everybody use it.
Joseph Wheaton: And…
Joseph Wheaton: I think Colin's response is perfect because we want Doesn't
Joseph Wheaton: people that come along and go, " I don't know s*** about Curious. This one's a little above my head, but I'm intrigued enough I'm going to go back and backfill, some of those things." and I think, we definitely struggled for a long time with the I mean,…
joshua gilbert: Yeah, there's a lot
Joseph Wheaton: it was I don't know if you guys paid attention or recognized who was on the call.
Nicole Cordingley: 33.
Joseph Wheaton: But what was it at its peak, Nicole? Maybe about 30.
Philip Bailey: I still think we get though we need those herog graphics that show metrics over time and show the health of riverscapes improving for some of these tutorial data sets because people are going to be like give me if this tool enables that that's what I need to communicate to my bosses.
Joseph Wheaton: I mean it's essentially what Weber produced for Willow Springs the first time and we've not bothered to get back to that quality of sort of graphics when it comes to analysis of metrics.
Joseph Wheaton: We've gotten back to that quality of mapping right in terms of we've got the symbology but not for the actual through time and…
joshua gilbert: Yeah,…
joshua gilbert: he did have some really good graphics.
Joseph Wheaton: the tables. Yeah. Absolutely.
Nicole Cordingley: Perfect.
Philip Bailey: Let's get a meeting on the book with those graphics because I'm convinced in our best projects we have the data and the graphics are easy. I was doing some mattplot lib stuff this morning. chat GBT was eating it for breakfast and making those graphics more professional is easy.
Joseph Wheaton: I mean, we've got Willow Springs, we've got Bailey Flat, we've got 30 Mile, we've got Zack, some of your stuff from the Bear could be quite good.
Joseph Wheaton: We've got Summit Birch Creek and…
Joseph Wheaton: what else would be a good one that has a bunch of juicy DCEs. But, I mean, we should get Conrad on and we need to be just going through and hey, this is what these things should look like. I mean, it's been like pulling teeth just to get people to f*** move beyond as built and actually collect some of this s***. And so now we're finally there, but now it's like we've got to get the software…
Philip Bailey: Yeah. Yeah.
Philip Bailey: I'll tell you.
Joseph Wheaton: where it can produce those things.
Philip Bailey: Yeah, we got everything. All we don't have is a developer who can dream up this stuff himself. So, he just needs to be told. That's all.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah. This is be pretty fun.
Joseph Wheaton: So, Zach,…
Nicole Cordingley: Perfect. If it's easy to share those graphic examples,…
Joseph Wheaton: I know that's something you think a bunch about. how to look at some of these things. And Josh, I mean, if you got sort of ideas, but it's like, we've been sort of working through linearly with a really, good idea for we're getting up to the right spots. But the reason Weber and I did the Willow Springs
Joseph Wheaton: work like we did was to provide that visual of this is what we should be producing. the problem is that one at the time was only done for three or four data capture events. Right now we can actually go back and plug it in with a whole bunch more and then update his graphics. We've just never bothered. Yeah.
joshua gilbert: Yeah, another thought speaking of those graphics and…
Nicole Cordingley: I'd love to See him?
joshua gilbert: speaking about bringing Conrad in just something Conrad was talking about that might be a cool sort of thing is right now we can look at one metric over time or over the rivercape shape. What would be really cool is a selection of metrics where you can overlay them on a stacked plot and look at relationships like if you're looking at structured count or structure density over your riverscape and you're also looking at inundation across your riverscape to see those correlations.
joshua gilbert: And I feel like Weber maybe had some figures like that, but just talking to Conrad, I know he's going at things kind of from this route of structures influence other things. So to be able to look at those things together,…
Joseph Wheaton: Those are great ideas.
joshua gilbert: I think would be really powerful.
Zach Burgert: …
Zach Burgert: Josh, I put in maybe a couple months ago something along those lines to update enhancements for the having the structure densities you could relate them to geomorphic densities as well and also compare those changes over time. So that would be a good idea.
Joseph Wheaton: Hey, I don't this Nicole,…
Nicole Cordingley: Welcome. That's a
Joseph Wheaton: I know you've been at times working with Angie, Zach, I was trying to go find you those reports, Nicole, because we had some really good project pages that listed off all those reports. We can definitely dream them up,…
Zach Burgert: What?
Joseph Wheaton: but most of these links are garbage.
Joseph Wheaton: she's linking to the wrong things and…
Joseph Wheaton: then all the specific content that we have for project pages it's just poof gone. So, maybe Zach can yeah I mean they all exist in the PR Explorer…
joshua gilbert: Can you go to those through the PBR?
joshua gilbert: But yeah, also they should clearly be there. Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: but we should go instead on the ones…
Zach Burgert: Okay.
Joseph Wheaton: where we bothered to create a bunch of rich content that had reports and all sorts of other things. we shouldn't just only go to PBR Explorer. so there's two issues. One is let's at least have those be correct links. That's a 10-minute job. but I've asked a million times to get the damn stuff back from the old website. yeah, it's frustrating.
Joseph Wheaton: But Zach,…
Zach Burgert: Yeah, I'll talk to him this week about getting that done.
Joseph Wheaton: can you send a stack of some of the design reports? so for those projects, so certainly the Willow Spring design and some of the little reports that Gus put together, some of the ones you've been involved on lately, just share those with Nicole so that she can get an idea of the different ways that things have been packaged. Nicole, as you're going through those there are some that I would say where we probably have better examples because mainly what we've been largely commissioned to do is design and asbuilts. we have some good ideas for what metrics should be and what graphs should be in addition to what maps should be and what tables should be those sorts of things. Where we're at is we want to for the design and asbuilt protocols.
Joseph Wheaton: definitely want to get those things plumbed in and happening. When it comes to data capture events for action effectiveness monitoring short of Willow Springs and…
Joseph Wheaton: yeah, I mean really there's very few that maybe 30 mile you guys have done a little bit on but there's very few that really tell the monitoring story.
Zach Burgert: Yeah. Yeah.
Zach Burgert: I just think that one last year on 30 mile and…
Zach Burgert: then we did I mean that was just sort of a snapshot in time and then we did this year I think Herb got imagery to us and so we were able to redigitize some of the areas of upper 30 mile and get metrics of change…
Joseph Wheaton: Zach, can you show off some of your RJS online things to get Philip thinking?
Zach Burgert: but Sure.
Joseph Wheaton: Right.
Joseph Wheaton: you've produced for a few of these projects because some of those, are ones that are in reach right now. might be worth us speculatively just going and…
Zach Burgert: Let me just log in.
joshua gilbert: some of that southeast Oregon might get a little more interesting,…
joshua gilbert: after this summer because one of them already had some beaver activity interspersed between the data capture events, but one of them since implementation had beaver move in and in and one year's difference. That one was pretty crazy, but if they continue to spread, that one might have an interesting story to tell.
Joseph Wheaton: doing those. We can ask Gus if he's got any budget, but it wouldn't take us long to do those data capture events.
Nicole Cordingley: office. Perfect.
Joseph Wheaton: Do you already have drone imagery or was it just anecdote?
joshua gilbert: I mean, no, those ones have been digitized for a few years. It's just Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: So you could add this summer. So yeah.
joshua gilbert: As I'm seeing those ones, their future trajectory is already on a path where they might be another to add to our collection of compelling stories.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah. I mean, if it's just a couple of those where some cool stuff's happening,…
Joseph Wheaton: let's cherrypick and let's just go do those. Josh, if you go ahead and use the credit card if you want to buy imagery, do it.
Zach Burgert: So yeah,…
Zach Burgert: this is where I made a little dashboard and then I put in a curious enhancement. I sort of got the idea for some of the stuff. So Josh mentioned in these graphs, you compare the jam and dam densities to the confluence, the riffle and the pool densities. And then as we zoom into these areas on the map these behave kind of like DGOs where you can just pull this up you can see your areas the counts percent inactive all those stats I linked into these and then same with any of these sample frames you can click on them and…
Joseph Wheaton: It's great.
Zach Burgert: then they will update but most importantly just having the comparison for metrics that are similar so riparian percent active versus percent inactive. And it's the same with the densities as well.
Zach Burgert: Pull through and then those would compare to each other like what Josh mentioned earlier.
Philip Bailey: The thing that occurs to me here is in curious,…
Philip Bailey: we're making no use of the map.
Philip Bailey: That's a modal dialogue with the charts on it. So, you're blocked from interacting with the map. And as you're panning around, Zach, your charts are updating.
Zach Burgert: Mhm. Yeah.
Philip Bailey: So if we change those analysis views to dockable windows, you could dock them. And every time the map extent changes, we can update the charts. That's an optional way of doing that. in
Zach Burgert: And then the area too filters being able to export those graphs would be another great feature. and then I put in there too there's a way if we could color code those to match the symbology of those layers. So for example if we were seeing percent end of data changes throughout time it just match what that layer is symbolized by. so then like I said, you could like what Josh mentioned, but it'd be easier to really compare across multiple layers in that regard.
Nicole Cordingley: Thank you.
Philip Bailey: Yeah, I don't fully understand that right Now
Joseph Wheaton: We'll zoom in.
Zach Burgert: So yeah, like I said, it's just more like right now we just have the default blue color for all of the graphs. it'd be nice if those instead of just having the default blue color those would relate to the layer symbology. So the percent riparian vegetation would show up in sort of that green color. I bet if you put percent active next to it then you would have Yeah. Yep.
Philip Bailey: So those are different metrics on the left. Those are different curious metrics on the left.
Joseph Wheaton: There's zonal statistics,…
Nicole Cordingley: Okay.
Joseph Wheaton: Philip, that tie to the QML symbology of a specific layer. So, you have it. It's what I've asked for the last five years. That's the thing we've talked about a bunch.
Philip Bailey: Yeah, I don't understand it right now. So, I'll need to sit down with Zach and figure it out.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah. …
Philip Bailey: Yeah, we don't have a way right now. whenever we make these little bespoke things, there's tons of human judgment that the desktop software doesn't have that we need to think of a very simple generic way of making work.
Joseph Wheaton: I mean, so here he's got the green areas are mapped as riparian vegetation,…
Zach Burgert: Yeah.
Philip Bailey: Mhm. Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: And he's calculating those as a percentage in each DGO.
Joseph Wheaton: So what's a little confusing on the graph that Zach has is the colors actually refer to multiple layers in this example, Because …
Philip Bailey: Yeah. Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: but they're all mapped there. So when you're labeling each of those,…
Philip Bailey: Listen.
Joseph Wheaton: there might be an idea. this also is a different protocol than you're used to seeing with LTBR version two. this is a little bit more involved than the rapid version that Weber came up with.
Philip Bailey: Mhm.
Joseph Wheaton: Because the rapid version would basically drop a point and give me ocular estimates of all of these things in each of those sample frames.
Joseph Wheaton: Whereas this one do some very basic mapping of features most of…
Joseph Wheaton: which were point based. So those are the colored dots or pools and bars and riffles. And then he also mapped polygons for the riparian area. and then did he map inactive or active? what did you guys do? Yeah.
Zach Burgert: I did.
Zach Burgert: So we active was basically the channel extent plus the riparian vegetation extent and then we just subtracted that from the valley bottom to get the inactive
Philip Bailey: Yeah, there are t Yeah, this needs to be done very carefully because all metrics are equal in curios. those four metrics? Why percent inundated, percent riparian vegetation, percent act? in your head those are very special. You're shopping up the valley bottom by special things. which protocols have those and which protocols don't and in every protocol those metrics are going to have different IDs. So how do we know those? So I like this idea. I think we can get to this idea. We just need to think it's not f*** did this in five minutes you guys are five years late. we need to just be a little careful about…
Joseph Wheaton: No, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. Do you have some other examples other than 30 mile?
Philip Bailey: how we go about this. Okay.
Joseph Wheaton: I've seen you produce some things even if they're design or asbuilt type summaries just
Zach Burgert: Yeah,…
Zach Burgert: Most of them have been for Gus on the 30 mile or his projects 30 mile in Eastern Oregon, I guess, for the most part. I have had these and made a bunch of maps for So this is I'd say the most complete set of those items.
Joseph Wheaton: Okay, cool.
Philip Bailey: Wait. Yeah.
Joseph Wheaton: Thank you.
Philip Bailey: Yeah, it's good.
Joseph Wheaton: All right. Josh and I are going to be working to get ready for Wednesday. what I mean we've got also not lose sight next week we should figure out who's going to be involved in what.
Joseph Wheaton: I do have Yeah.
Philip Bailey: I have a petty side thing while I have Nicole,…
Philip Bailey: Josh, Zach. Please send all documentation pull requests to me. You'll get faster response and a better response. Trying to keep Kelly on the software. I'll do the documentation things. I'm in the office now until Christmas. I've got no breaks or anything. So, send documentation to actually keep protocols with Kelly.
Joseph Wheaton: You want that for riverscapes XML as well as for doc source or…
joshua gilbert: Sounds good.
Philip Bailey: He understands that better than me. but documentation stuff is slowing him down and…
Zach Burgert: Okay.
Philip Bailey: I don't want to hear that anymore. So, just send that stuff to me. which is basically saying it's going to come to me anyway.
Joseph Wheaton: me because I'll sloppily approve s*** and…
Nicole Cordingley: That's it. Perfect.
Joseph Wheaton: not f***** care.
Philip Bailey:
Philip Bailey: Just I went and…
Joseph Wheaton: Phillip, if you looked at what I didn't get this weekend, you'd just be** cringing.
Philip Bailey: I took a quick peek and then I went and namaste because I don't need shingles on the other side of my torso.
Joseph Wheaton: blind blind. that looks good.
Philip Bailey: Hey, This is the beauty of both Docsource and Git. You make a mess, we can unravel it. You can go back. these are your sites.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah, I wasn't too worried…
Philip Bailey: Yeah,…
Joseph Wheaton: if I f** a page. Big deal.
Zach Burgert: to God.
Joseph Wheaton: Plus, it's pretty nice when a page doesn't compile. It just like, whatever. Screw you. And then leaves it. Right. So yeah.
Philip Bailey: that's right. It's way better than Gatsby,…
Nicole Cordingley: That's
Philip Bailey: which kind of panicked and cancelled the duo decimal system for all of North America.
Joseph Wheaton: Yeah. Do decimal. Now you're really dating yourself.
Joseph Wheaton: I don't even think Zach he just looks lost. Do we des What? No.
Zach Burgert:
Zach Burgert: I'm tired. having over a cold. So, I'm a little bit getting the brain fog out.
Philip Bailey: Just go watch the Nate Bazi units and…
joshua gilbert: Yep. Yeah.
Philip Bailey: measures There you go. Thank you. cool. Okay.
Joseph Wheaton: All right.
Joseph Wheaton: Thanks, folks. Later.
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