Episode 4 - Transcript

“Communication Breakdown: Listening to Another Perspective”

Brandy: Hi. Welcome to The Road Home To You. I'm Brandy Goebel, joined by my husband, Matt. We'd like to invite you to join us as we talk about practical ways to live out our Christian faith. We're not trained professionals or theologians; we're just real people having real conversations about marriage, parenting and this journey called life. So, grab a drink and a cozy seat and let's get started.

Good morning, Matt!

Matt: Good morning, Brandy.

Brandy: I'm sick! How are you?

Matt: Not sick, thank you. Although after spending some time in the closet, it's entirely possible that I, too, will be sick.

Brandy: Yes, I'm sure by the end of this recording you will be sick. I got this from our son who got it a day or two before he left to go on a mission trip down to Mexico for 10 days. I have no idea how he's doing.

Based on that, y'all, I'm not going to be talking quite as much today. I'm going to leave it in Matt's capable hands to lead this off and he's got all the notes. So I'm going to be along for the ride and try not to cough and sniffle into the microphone a lot. With that, take it away Matt. What are we talking about?

Matt: Today I wanted to talk about the importance of understanding another person's perspective.

The way we came to this subject is we spend a lot of time talking amongst ourselves and one of the topics that comes up a lot is the polarization we're seeing in our nation as well as even creeping into the church. People are becoming more and more entrenched in their own ideas and less and less interested in actually hearing what another person might have to say. It's a dangerous place to be in. It doesn't allow you to compromise with anybody else; it doesn't allow for a lot of middle ground.

In talking this over, we've talked a lot about how important it is to really be able to put yourself in somebody else's shoes; try to see life through their eyes, their perspective, the way they look at the world.

This comes into play not just in our interactions with people as we talk about politics. It's important in relationships, in marriage, in ministry. If you want to be reaching people it might be a good idea to be able to understand where they're coming from, to be able to see their needs, to be able to see what shapes their life on a day to day basis and understand how that shapes them as a person and how you can meet those needs.

It's really an important skill to have and it's one we've seen is in increasingly short supply.

Brandy: Yes, I would say in the past couple of years we've seen a rather significant decrease in people's ability to put themselves in somebody else's shoes, to be able to see that there is another side to the story. It might not align with your story at all, it might not even be accurate, but it's another perspective and even if it isn't accurate, it's still valid if that's what somebody has experienced. If that's where they're coming from, their perception isn't invalid because they don't agree with you. That's their experience. You have to consider that, you have to weigh that and then you can move forward in any kind of relationship or dialogue or whatever.

Matt: It's definitely not about having to agree with this other person, because you certainly don't. But if you can understand where they're coming from, the things that drive them, what motivates them to think the way that they think, you can communicate with them in a better way. You can understand where they're coming from and maybe you can meet them somewhere in the middle, or if nothing else, you can at least understand why they believe the way that they believe.

Brandy: I think this is a really pertinent topic too, when you think about different generations coming together and talking about an issue or subject. You take somebody who's 65 and was protesting the Vietnam War or fighting in the Vietnam War and their perspective is going to be vastly different from our kids who have always known the world full of computers and iPhones. They've never known another world. Those two generations are coming from such a completely different place.

I've seen this happen with our own kids sometimes as they're talking with their grandparents. And the grandparents are like, "What are these kids talking about?" And the kids are like, "What are these old people talking about?" And we end up having to be a little bit of a buffer for both sides to…

Matt: Translate.

Brandy: That's a good thing to think about even as you're relating with your family or with other generations in your church or your workplace, or your neighborhood.

Matt: I think one of the first areas that we wanted to discuss where this comes in is in the area of marriage. We spend the bulk of our time on this podcast talking about marriage and talking about relationships so we figured that would be a good place to start.

It comes in in multiple ways. I'm going to go straight to one of the more extreme examples that we talked about earlier. That is in the instance of perhaps an abusive spouse.

If that abuser took the time to understand their spouse's position on things and how that made them feel, how their words or their actions made their spouse feel, I can't help but think that would reduce the instance of these problems.

Brandy: Or even if it's not an 'abusive relationship' but one of the husband or wife has been abused and has now entered into this marriage and there's maybe... If a wife has been abused and all of a sudden she feels like she's being controlled by her husband, while her husband isn't necessarily trying to come across as controlling.

Being able to have that conversation with each other, for the wife to be able to say, "This is how it reads to me, because of my past, because of my situation, because of the abuse I endured as a child....When your voice escalates, I feel 5 again and I feel like I'm gonna get hit. So, when we disagree, can we find a softer tone to do that in?"

Matt: We talked in our last broadcast about how everything changes when you get married. All of a sudden every choice that you make has to be put through the filter of 'How is this going to affect my spouse? How is this going to affect my family?' This is a key element of that.

If you consider your family members as more important than yourself, then you should take the time to get to know the perspective of your family members, your spouse and everyone else because that's going to help you make better decisions when it comes time to consider what their needs are.

Brandy: Neither one of us experience childhood abuse or major trauma or anything like that, but you and I've even gone through this as a married couple, in going back over what were some of our earliest hurts and fears and what  drives and motivates some of our current actions and thinking.

Being able to explore that together.... Even though it didn't stem from a traumatic past experience, everything that we experience starts to speak into the way we interpret the world and then, how we operate in the world. Being able to have that conversation with each other, I know, really gave you and I an insight into, 'Oh, that's what motivates Matt. That's what motivates Brandy.'

And now that I know that about this person, now I can treat that area, that particular frail spot, I can treat that more gently. I can try to love on that and nurture that wound from childhood - even though it's not massive battle damage, it's a wound - and now I can just love on that spot and try to reinforce trust and establish that I'm a safe person in your life.

I think it's definitely something that's beneficial, no matter what your experience is, if you're in a relationship - a committed relationship, or you're entering into a marriage - it's important to be able to have those conversations, to see where the other person is coming from. Because their past plays into that. Our past experience drives our current behavior and beliefs.

Matt: It doesn't even have to be anything major. It can be prioritizing how you handle money for the family. There's any number of times where there's things that aren't a big priority for me, so if it was just me doing the budget without concern for anybody else, I wouldn't be spending money on whatever it is. But if I know that it's important to you or it's important to one of our kids, then I'm going to prioritize that differently. It makes a difference in all the choices that we make within our relationships.

Okay, we've covered the importance of it, the impact in relationship, but how do we go about actually doing this?

Brandy: How do we, Matt? Tell me, how do we do this?

Matt: It's good that you asked that because I'm about to get to it. The first step really is being a good listener.

Brandy: Now...I totally interrupted what you just said about being a good listener...Let me ask, are these steps or are these... When I think 'steps' I think I have to do one before the next, before the next. Are they steps or are they principles?

Matt: A little bit of both. I don't think you have to do these in order but if you don't start with being a good listener, then how are you going to consider somebody else's perspective, if you haven't heard it and haven't considered it?

So, step one has to be, be a good listener. You have to listen to what they're saying and listen between the lines. You have to try and listen for the heart behind the words.

One of the other things, this gets back to the more poilitical side of things, when it comes to being a listener, you have to listen not just waiting for an opening so that you have a chance to spout your own opinions. You have to actually listen to what they're saying so that you can respond in a good way, and let that other person know that they've been heard and know that they've been understood. That's going to soften their opinion and their approach to the conversation, as well.

Brandy: One thing I think is important, and I've seen this happen a lot on Facebook, which is a platform that us old people like to use way more than the young people, because it's current, there's a lot of talk right now about the whole gun control, gun reform, school safety, all that stuff happening and what I've been seeing a lot is people from both sides saying, "No. This is what we need." It will be a 'discussion' of 15 people but nobody's listening to the other side.

Matt: Yeah, they're just waiting for their chance.

Brandy: I think part of what listening is, is validating what you're hearing. If somebody says, "I'm worried that as a legal, law abiding citizen of this country, that all my guns are going to get taken away," it makes sense for me to say, "I can understand and respect the fact that you feel like you're going to be left unprotected and unsafe and unable to defend your property, yourself, your family, whatever."

Likewise, if it's a 16 year old kid saying, "I'm tired of getting shot at or always feeling like there's that threat," To be able to say, "I hear that you're afraid." Part of active listening is responding with an 'I hear your position, I hear your heart."

Matt: And there again, you don't have to agree. You just have to let that person know that you do care about their opinion and that you do want to hear their point of view.

Brandy: At this point, we're not talking about compromise; we're not talking about agreeing or disagreeing. We're not talking about coming to any kind of resolution or solution, we're simply talking about being able to look at the world from somebody else's perspective and that starts with active listening.

Matt: Absolutely.

So, if you can manage that, then you're already a good ways into understanding another person's perspective.

You brought up a good point, as far as saying that we need to be honest in our communication. We need to be honest about what is driving our concerns, what fears we may have, desires we may have, whatever.

 

So often, I've been in conversations where somebody tries to mask their true motivations. They try to pass it off as something else. And then you start really digging in and they say, "Okay, well what this really comes from is..." and they maybe share a childhood memory or something that really shaped their opinion on this particular subject.

Had they been honest with that from the beginning, it would have been much easier to go, 'Oh, okay. I see where this person's coming from; I can see why they would hold this position. And now I can address it in a different, more compassionate way.' The more time we spend masking our true motivations, the less time we can spend actually communicating and having anybody hear and understand us.

Brandy: I think it's hard, too, because first and foremost, you have to be honest with yourself. It's so easy for us to let our ego drive us and speak a lot of bravado to ourselves. Because if we're not speaking bravado then, oftentimes we've got this little devil on our shoulder telling us we're worthless and we're stupid and we're foolish and who do we think we are? It's easy to try to combat that. We put on this tough person act or holier-than-thou facade even to ourselves and it takes time to really…

Matt: To break through those barriers. Everytime we do that, we put a barrier between ourselves and this other person in helping them to understand what it is we're trying to get across.

Brandy: It takes being able to evaluate yourself honestly and that's not particularly fun sometimes. Because you're going to see flaws, you're going to see holes in your reasoning or shortcomings in your thinking. You're going to find areas that you go, 'Ah...maybe I'm not as smart as I thought I was.'

Matt: I hadn't thought about it that way, but you're right, the more you take time to consider where your own opinions are coming from, the more you're able to refine your thoughts on a particular subject. You'll go into that conversation with somebody else more ready to accurately communicate about your ideas.

Brandy: Granted, this is going to be a lot easier when you know you're walking into a Facebook debate about whatever the current subject might be versus if you're having a conversation with your neighbor whose dog keeps pooping in your yard. When you have time to self-reflect, take that time; you don't always have that time.

 

Matt: Absolutely. When you can, it's a good idea to understand where your own opinions are coming from.

Brandy: The truth of the matter is, we all have an agenda. That's such a hot-button word and nobody wants to admit that they have an agenda. But we all have an agenda and it's self-preservation and it's self-edification. We want to boost ourselves and we want to feel good about life. That's our agenda. Probably, first and foremost. And I think we need to check that.

Matt: Absolutely. And taking the time to work out some of that stuff in yourself is going to be a positive thing in your faith, in your ministry, in your relationships. It's going to pay off in a lot of ways.

Brandy: So, what's step three?

Matt: Alright, we've talked about listening, we've talked about being honest about where your thoughts and opinions are coming from.

The next one, assuming you've done a good job listening is going to be reflecting, even for a moment about, 'Okay, I've heard this other person's opinions, their thoughts, where they're coming from...' Spend some time reflecting on how would this shape their world-view? 'If I was in their situation, how would I respond?' Being able to project yourself into another person's life experience is going to be another thing that really pays off well.

This is not an easy thing to do. It's going to be a very inexact thing. But even an attempt to put yourself in another person's shoes is going to pay off big in understanding another person's perspective.

I think that's one of the hardest parts of all of this - really being able to understand.... I see this primarily in debates or talks in issues about race.

Brandy: That's exactly what I was thinking, too.

Matt: There's so much in another person's perspective, in their view on the world that is really hard to put yourself into. Because all we can really know for the most part is our own experience. To be able to step outside of that and say, "If that had been me; if that had been my experience growing up; if that was my world, how would I respond? What sort of opinions would I hold if that was me?"

Brandy: There was a really good example of this again, on Facebook - you'd think that's all I do in life; it's not - but it popped up yesterday in my feed and I'm assuming that this was a legitimate person making a legitimate post that went viral. I might be wrong. But, I think it's pretty accurate regardless.

A woman of color was talking about her and her son living in a all-white neighborhood. Her son's 14, 15 years old, down in California. Their entire neighborhood is white. They're the only African American family on that street.

It wasn't that long ago where there was that black man that was shot and killed in his grandma's backyard, I think it was. He was reaching for his cell phone or had been holding his cell phone - I don't know the details of that story. From what I gather, he wasn't doing anything wrong. He hadn't been running from the cops. I don't know what led to his shooting, but father of two, black man, gunned down in his grandmother's backyard, holding a cell phone, no weapons on him.

So this is the world she's seeing and it occurred to her, 'My son, who's 14, 15 years old, looks like a grown man because he's tall and he's kind of big, and if people in this neighborhood don't know him, are they just going to think he's suspicious?' She was saying she keeps hearing on Facebook - and we see it on our Facebook community pages, too -where, "Oh, there's this kid! And he's walking down the street and he's wearing a hoodie and he's got earbuds in and he's suspicious." "Well, why is he suspicious?" "I don't know. He just doesn't look like he belongs in our neighborhood."

So she's like, 'My kid doesn't look like he belongs in this neighborhood.' So she went around to all 8 houses on her street with her son and said, "This is my son. This is his name. He lives here. He belongs here. If you see him, he is not suspicious; he belongs."

And I was reading that and I was thinking, 'Dude, I don't have to think about that. I don't have to worry about that. My kids look like they belong in this neighborhood because it's predominantly white. We are white. I don't have to think about that. But she has to think about that and everytime her kid leaves the house, she has to think, 'Is this going to be the last time I see him?'

To be honest, as a mom, I tend to think that way, anyway, by virtue of the fact that my kids have my heart, but she's thinking it on a much more immediate basis.

Matt: By the same token, if a white family was to move to a predominantly African American neighborhood, would you even think that you would have to go around and introduce yourselves to your neighbors just in case somebody wants to shoot your kid? It wouldn't even cross your mind as something that needed to be done.

You have to think, in putting yourself in that situation, that changes your whole approach to the world. If, every time you get pulled over by a cop it triggers a panic attack, that's going to shape your opinion of the police. It changes your whole perspective on the world. And the more you can understand that, the more you're going to be able to communicate with that person.

Brandy: Right.

So, do we have a Step 4 here, Matt?

Matt: We do.

The final step.... So, we've listened, we've tried to understand the heart of this person, we've tried to put ourselves in their shoes, we've been honest in what motivates us... So the final thing would be: How does this change my behavior or how does this change my approach to the dialogue with this person? How does this change the conversation?

Brandy: So, going back to my example that I just spoke about.... That term 'white privilege' is thrown around a lot, and again, I know that's a hot button and I don't want to offend or…

Matt: Right, because there's any number of people that would deny that it even exists.

Brandy: Right. And, to be perfectly honest, probably a year ago, I would have been one of those people. And as it got brought to my attention that 'this is an example of your privilege as a white person because you don't have to fear your son being shot because he's in a predominantly white neighborhood. He's not a minority sticking out.' And as I started seeing examples of that I was like, 'Oh! I'm getting it!' And it changed my perspective to the point that I understand what white privilege is and I understand that I still have a lot that I don't understand.

Matt: But it puts you in a place to listen.

Brandy: Yeah, and it opened up my eyes to the fact that I take a lot for granted in this country because I'm a middle aged white woman, living a middles class kinda life. I mean, I've got issues, but there's a lot of things I'm not struggling with that a lot of other people in this country are. It opened my eyes to the reality of another person's situation and it made me think about, 'What can I do to help alleviate that fear or that anxiety in our community with the minority groups that we have.

We don't have...we're pretty cracker here. But we do have some hispanic families and we do have some African American families and we've got some Asian and Hawai’ian families, so we've got some dark skin here but not a ton. So, how can I be aware? How can I be mindful of being inclusive? What needs to change in me?

Matt: How might this other person's experience of, even our own neighborhood, be different because of the color of their skin or because of their background?

In acknowledging those things, clearly that means you're going to participate in the next Black Lives Matter march downtown, right? And that means that you agree with everything that they say.

Brandy: Ummmm.....I don't know a lot about the Black Lives Matter Movement, so…

Matt: My somewhat facetious point is saying that it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to agree with this other person's point of view. But, at least being able to understand them, opens up dialogue. It opens up a way for them to know that they have been heard and understood and that you care about their point of view and their opinions.

Brandy: I think there's a really good example of this in the Bible. Can I share with you my example?

Matt: Please do!

Brandy: Yay! Let me grab my Bible...one second.

Matt: Alright.

There's multiple examples but we're going to at least cover one of them.

Brandy: There are multiple examples. Ugh...I've gotta hold my Bible and try to read into a microphone, oh my goodness.

Matt: In The Closet, this is a challenge.

Brandy: Okay, so guys we are in Matthew 15. We're starting in verse 21. And it says, "Jesus went away from there and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon. And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out saying, 'Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David. My daughter is cruelly demon possessed.' But He did not answer her a word and his disciples came and implored him saying, 'Send her away because she keeps shouting at us.' But he answered and said, 'I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.' But she came and began to bow down before Him saying, 'Lord, help me.' And He answered and said, 'It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.' But she said, 'Yes, Lord, but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their master's table.' Then Jesus said to her, 'Oh, woman, your faith is great. It shall be done for you as you wish.' And her daughter was healed at once.

I think that's a really good example of all of these steps. Jesus goes from...He's got one purpose and His purpose is to bring the news to the Jews. This is His plan; this is what He's doing. And then this woman comes up and says, "Hey, you gotta help me. I've got a daughter in need." And He's like, "That's not why I'm here right now."

Matt: And she said, "Canaanite lives matter."

Brandy: That's right...she did. She protested. She marched....

What she did was, she bowed down. She pled her case to Jesus and she said, "I will take your scraps." And He stopped and He listened, not just to her words, to what she was literally saying, but He listened to her heart. And He saw that her faith was great. And that changed His course of action, in that moment.

It wasn't a big thing; it didn't take a lot of time. He didn't have to go through this big, prolonged process in order to get to a place of, 'I hear you; I see you and I can meet that need and care for you and love you in this instant.' And then he went on His way.

Matt: And if our God can allow His approach to be moderated by another person's needs, what does that say about us? That comes to my verse from the Bible that I wanted to cover.

I'm in Philippians, chapter 2. "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility, consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look, not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus."

And there, we just saw the attitude of Christ Jesus. He considered this woman's needs as being more important. He took the time out of His agenda and changed His course of action to meet her needs. He heard her heart, He heard her concerns and He acted.

That's the gold standard that we should strive for. We're not always going to be there; we're not always going to be able to live up to Christ's example in everything that we should do, but the more we can bring this into practice, it's going to make us more compassionate, more caring, more understanding. As people see our efforts to understand them and to hear their words and respond in a positive way, that changes their heart. That opens us up for us to be heard. When you see somebody else really trying to care about your words, to hear your concerns, that opens you up to, 'Now I want to see what this person has to say.'

Brandy: We're told as disciples of Christ to go into all the world; to make disciples, to proclaim the Good News. That's our mission that we've been given by God. It would be super easy for us to stand on the street corner and proclaim hell, fire and brimstone, unless you turn and repent. That's easy.

Matt: And there's a place for that message.

Brandy: There is a place for that message and the Bible has that message in there and examples of people giving that message..

Matt: But it doesn’t necessarily change hearts.

Brandy: Right. We live in this climate right now of compromise and tolerance and yet, we're told to speak the truth in love. I think sometimes as Christians we fail time and again on that...hearing what the world has to say about sexuality or addiction or whatever the world has to say about it.... We kind of close our ears to it. We don't want to hear what the world has to say, we just want to spout our truth.

Matt: Right. It's a blind condemnation of their perspective, their thoughts on things, their way of life, their very identity. When we only come at them with condemnation we shut the doors to any real conversation or understanding that could be reached between us and anybody else.

Brandy: Absolutely. If we want to actually see lives change, if we want to see hearts turned toward God then we have to be willing to hear what's being said - to listen between the words - to find out what those motivations are...to figure out what our motivations are. Is my motivation to get you to turn and repent so that I feel better about myself? Or is my motivation to have you come face to face with the Savior that can change your life? I want you to meet my best friend who sacrificed it all for me. Is that my motivation or is it I just want to pump up my own numbers, a little bit? What's the motivation? Check that.

Do I just want to come off as right? Because if all I want to do is be right, then I'll just keep shouting the truth at people, but it doesn't mean that lives will change.

Matt: And it also means that no one's really going to hear you because they are just going to put up walls to your words. People have to be heard and understood before their going to open their ears to hear what you have to say.

Brandy: Yeah. I think this is such a relevant topic. We are in such a divisive time in our nation and you see it on the political front, on the church front, on the family front. It's everywhere. There's so much division and there's so much conflict happening. I remember when the election happened, this wave of people unfriending their friends and family because they voted differently than what the other person voted. Geez, that doesn't seem right. So, I'm sorry, but if you unfriended because they voted for Trump and you are not a Trump supporter, you are wrong. You're wrong.

Matt: Yeah, relationships come first. People matter over opinions.

Brandy: Over politics. Your relationship needs to be at the forefront. But I saw it happen so many times and I was sitting there going, 'You people are all insane.' What is happening in this world? I think now, more than ever, we need to just sit down and shut up and listen to what's being said and what isn't being said and really try to feel what it is to be in that person's shoes.

And like you've said a thousand times, it doesn't mean we end up agreeing with them. It doesn't mean we go, "Oh, you were totally right," on anything. It's having that compassion. It's saying, "Because you feel this way and because you're important to me, your feelings are important to me and I'm going to listen to the way you feel and to what you think. I'm going to consider those things and weigh them against my own thoughts and feelings. We're just having a dialogue. That's all it is.

Matt: Time and time again, we're seeing it all over the place, people just don't want to consider another point of view. It's so dangerous. If that attitude persists, if people become more polarized and more entrenched in their positions, you're not giving yourself any out. The only out, at that point, becomes civil war.

Brandy: And there is a time and a place to stand up and be willing to die for a message. My prayer is, that if our country ever comes to a point that, or if I'm ever in a place where my faith in God means I'm going to be murdered, I pray and trust that I will be smart enough to stand firm and proclaim God as my savior. There are things worth dying for. There are things that you don't every want to compromise - this isn't up for debate. But that doesn't mean you can't still listen.

 

Man, I just don't want to see our nation go down that path where we are looking at another civil war, at least of sorts. It feels like we're kind of already there, to some extent. There seems to be an Us against Them mentality happening in our nation. It's ugly and it's uncomfortable and honestly I don't think either side likes it. But what I think, is neither side is willing to say, "Where are you coming from? What's your thought on this?"

Matt: Yeah, that simple act of listening and understanding another perspective can diffuse so many conflicts and really open up that dialogue. Even if you never end up agreeing with that person, hearing and understanding them will make a world of difference in actually being able to have a calm, civilized discussion of the matter.

Brandy: Dude. We hit so many hot button topics. We hit racism, we hit Black Lives Matter, we talked gun reform, we've talked President Trump...we got a lot of things in here that I think, might potentially upset some people.

Matt: It might. And I would hope that people would listen between the lines and hear our heart and just know that we don't have to be agreed with. Just take the time to listen and to care about other people.

Brandy: You guys, our heart is we just want to get together every week and have a conversation. We have these kinds of conversations whether y'all listen or not, but we thought it'd be kind of fun to put them on the air and let other people have part in this conversation with us.

To be really super frank with you guys, I tend to be the kind of person that has to process verbally, out loud. By episode 12 you're going to go, "Man, this girl contradicts herself all the time." And it's true. I do sometimes contradict myself because as I'm talking about an issue and as Matt is talking about his perspective of an issue, I go, "Oh, yeah! That's something I hadn't ever considered before. That's a new approach, a different way to look at it." It's not unlikely that my opinion will change. It's not even so much that my opinion changes, it just forms different.

Matt: It would change your approach to a subject. And it would change your approach to future conversations with others about a given topic.

Brandy: Right.

So, our heart is just to share these conversations with you guys, to bring you in on it and join in the conversation.

We've got an email. you can email your questions to us; you can email your thoughts to us. If you think we're foolish and cray-cray, you can say that. We will totally listen to what you have to say, try to consider your perspective and then we'll tell you not to listen to us if you don't like us. Our email is roadhometoyou@gmail.com.

Our blog, which will have our show notes as well as some other writing from me is www.roadhometoyou.com.

We're also going to be getting up a facebook page [this is now up, look for us there!], probably an Instagram. Facebook for old people, Twitter maybe for young people. I don't know how many young people we're going to have listening, but you just never know.

Also, this is something I have not mentioned on previous episodes, please go to your iTunes. Subscribe, rate, review. That helps us in the ratings. You don't have to say anything good. We prefer that you give us 5 stars, but if you hate us, still give us 5 stars and just tell us that you hate us. Or don't. Whatever.

Also, today in our introduction I think I said the name of our podcast correctly, but I think last week, possibly the previous weeks, I did not do it right. You guys, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just winging it; I'm just learning. And I'm sick! So, you gotta extend a little bit of grace.

So, we are The Road Home To You. That's who we are. And we are so glad that you guys joined us today. You guys, have an awesome week, God bless you on this long road home. Take it easy.