EU Test map cup feedback results as of 26/07/2019 (40 responses thus far)

Forms response chart. Question title: What division did your team play in for this cup?. Number of responses: 40 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: If you are happy to say, what team did you play for?. Number of responses: 34 responses.

Forms response chart. Question title: From your experience of koth_warmtic_b6 in this cup, would you like for it to be in future EU RGL map pools?. Number of responses: 40 responses.

Do you have any comments on koth_warmtic_b6 for Prolander in general?

nothing wrong with it”

“The play on it does not feel intuitive, too heavly dominated by sniper. The map as a whole felt average but I would not mind playing it.”

“I don't have a problem with it.”

“Map has some of the most ridicilous sightlines in existence. And mid design is much in favor of explosive jumping ability classes and sentrys in banana are annoying to fight againts(that comes from an engie main). But overall the flow and rotations are really nice, and flank has actually plenty of things to do. Overall map is not bad, not good, I would give it 6/10.”

“Suffers from same problems that it does in HL, not the best”

“Not really, I have the same stance on it as I do with it for Highlander: Banana can feel a bit overpowered sometimes if everyone's bunched up in there, and/or are protecting the sniper from Spies or other flank classes.”

“Feels a bit too open for 7s, also if your team has good soldier and sniper enemy team can't do much against that because of the fact that not every team runs spy to deny sniper from window, and soldiers can have a lot of impact on top crates what is really annoying.”

“Warmtic was the beat map of this map pool”

“This map feels similar to cascade, where the flank gets very easily denied by a Pyro, a Heavy and/or a Mini-Sentry. The sight lines are somewhat strong as it his hard for flank classes to reach the Sniper. This causes the map to have a tendency to force a Scout or Soldier player into playing Spy. However, the design of the point makes fights fun and interesting. What could be considered a problem is the high amount of hiding spots on lamps and in the sky-box. Overall this map would definitely be an improvement over Cascade, as it has a similar flow, but does make the fights more fun while also being kinder on the player's framerate.”

“Was a good map and it kinda forced us to play agro”

“Sniper sightlines are painful, and it's a koth map with 3 flanks????”

“no”

“It's average, weird mix of Viaduct and Highpass maps.”

Sniper is a bit too strong on warmitic”

“Badly optimized, too Sniper friendly”

“In general not a bad idea to try and bring warmtic to the map pool. But I think most of the current koth maps in the pool are overall better / more balanced.”

“Bad performance lot of stuttering”

“warmtic is a fun map, koth tends to be very fun because it can allow for a lot of class variety and that is no different on warmtic”

“It would be something new, I prefer coalplant but this is alright.”

“Feels crowded on highlander but seems very nice on 7s”

“Good map in general”

“I personally actually prefer playing this map in Prolander instead of HL.”

Forms response chart. Question title: From your experience of cp_gravelpit in this cup, would you like for it to be in future EU RGL map pools?. Number of responses: 40 responses.

Do you have any comments on cp_gravelpit for Prolander in general?

“never played it”

“The flow of gravel pit is quite opposite to what you would want from prolander. Gravel pit feels clunky and not fitting to the format. I do not think gravelpit would be a good choice. It would be nice to have some variety and attack/defense maps in general, but gravelpit should not be put in rotation. It's an old and dated map, and has been mostly shifted out for a reason.

Heavily disliked it.”

“Lack of players. Not many fights. 1 person on flank”

“Gravel Pit is an old and outdated map at this point. Map is too open, and has got too many sightlines. Meanwhile the map has potential for really interesting starts to be developed, the overall bad layout is what kills this map. Point B is ridicilous easy to hold, and Point C is basically free cap once you kill 3 people from enemy team. There are better a/d maps to test out. I would love for Mercenary Park to be tested out.”

“Steel, but bit worse”

“Trying to attack B on Gravel Pit can be a nightmare at times compared to attacking A, especially with the height advantage given there.”

“Please, why was there even such idea to try this map, wasted spot for other maps.”

“IT was bad”

“This map is very strategy heavy, as teams are presented with multiple places to push B from, that can be executed in different ways. Teams for example can have players jump onto the roof and try to take control over it in order to force the opponent to leave B as they can not deal with the strong highground advantage, but it is also an option to rotate from A to C and have players play on the bats, so that their Sniper, Soldier and Combo can the positioning the spam the enemy team out and they have the option to try to set up a sentry on C. However, the map does have a lot of flaws as well. The point A is somewhat chaotic with a lot of hiding spots and has a way too long cap time for a point that is basically undefendable. Point B has too many large sightlines, making it very dependent on Snipers and limiting the defending team's options a lot. Both Long and Short are long and choky tunnels, making them very difficult to push, so the dominant strategy becomes to push from B to C, making games a bit too predictable and stale. The roof has some strange clipping with a lot of little things to bump. The walls of the large house make it impossible to have a good view of the area and fights often end up being chaotic and the last few people tend to play hide and seek as players do not know where other people are. Point C is unique and interesting and overall is fun to play. However, the map is missing a lot of health kits and ammo packs to make the game more smoother and enjoyable for Flank. The Lobby (or A-C connector) is very tight and boring for the Flank to fight in. With more space and some interesting geometry in it, it could be really fun for the Flank. Overall the map is a good side-grade to Steel and could easily replace it, however if a pro-version really could do this map a lot of favors as it has a lot of potential and room for improvement. It might however also be a good option to replace one of the stale and boring Payload maps.”

“How are you supposed to push B and C? It feels too old and favorises sneak plays where you just jump with quickfix medic on point or a really defensive playstyle”

“I don't really like this map and I don't think will fith prolander

Too blue sided - way too easy to rotate between A and B for fakes without any need to commit

its random and chaotic and easy to spawncamp for the attacking team”

“Too large for 7vs7”

“I don't have opinion about Gravelpit.”

“it doesn't fit the style at all”

“I liked the map, a lot but I don't want it replacing steel.”

“Better than cp_steel”

“Basically, a bad version of cp_Steel, which is already a terrible map. Point A is irrelevant, only focus on B, then "try" to take C. Point C is to cluttered, barely any room for repositioning. Also Pyro, is basically OP on C.”

“I like the idea of adding more / different A/D maps into the competitive environment but Gravelpit itself didnt feel competitive at all. It is tougher than steel to create an entry into enemy holds and the map itself is kinda narrow and doesnt offer too much variety to create different kinds of plays. So in my opinion its not a proper replacement at all for any of the current played maps ( except Borneo maybe this map isnt meant to be played in 7v7).”

“I liked the tactical depth of this map but it could be massively improved with an pro version things i would do would be removing the A point because it is pointless to defend it and also give some sort of way to get to the C point from the attacking side without going through the stairs or rocket jumping to the top”

“gravelpit is very interesting because it has some of the intriquate map dynamics found on cp_steel, another A/D map with map dynamics involving having to rotate to deal with specific threats at specific times. almost like CS:GO in that way. Very interesting, but there are gripes with the layout such as the sniper sightline in between the shack and the wall when you come out B-short (to name just one). [maybe try gravelpit_pro?]”

“sick map, a proper team dependant map. Can't win this map with dm and memes. Proper coordination and skill needed imo. Would be great to see gravelpit make a return to any league and gamemode. A yes from me.”

“Harder map than CP_Steel, but better i think”

“Gravelpit is always kind of one-sided. Depending on player and team experience, it comes down to knowing how to take over the roof on controlpoint B while attacking. Since usually the A point gets neglected and given up to BLU for free. Sometimes a Soldier or Scout looks after A but quickly returns to play the C flank and hold off people coming from C to B. All comes down to who plays the roof on B better. There are definitely more strats to defending but teams tend to go for the easiest: give up A, full hold B, deny C with Pyro. If teams haven't played more around that strat before, 1 round can last as fast as 3 minutes. Which is pretty boring. Prolander compared to HL and 6s isn't any different on that map.”

Forms response chart. Question title: From your experience of koth_bagel_rc2a in this cup, would you like for it to be in future EU RGL map pools?. Number of responses: 38 responses.

Do you have any comments on koth_bagel_rc2a for Prolander in general?

“absolutely fucking shite”

“Fit the play of prolander the best out of the maps and was the most fun, however it felt a bit too easy to hold point once it was taken.”

“The divide it provides between left and right are a bit too much. You are pretty much able to flank 24/7, unless the enemy team has strong flank players, which can be a very big annoyance to the enemy team.”

“Map is great and it works perfectly in 7v7 enviroment. Teams need to practice the map more and I see it becoming one of the best maps Prolander has to offer. Only thing that bothers me are lack of health around the point.”

“Mid point gives lots of cover, houses seem to be too spammable. Other than that, a bigger ammo + med pack on flank would have be great (medium pack/s instead of small ammo + med pack)”

“Bagel was actually pretty fun to play. I don't really have a lot of comments, other than that it really promotes situational awareness of where the enemy team will be, and predicting where they'll appear and attack next.”

“Good for casual but for comp it doesn't work at all, enemies can easly spawncamp or prevent other team from even looking at point in those narrow corridors.”

“Having the two houses next to the point makes for interesting gameplay, as the Combo has to choose between which side they want to play, as both sides are worth playing on. It also allows the Flank to have their own side to play on, which is often missing on other KotH maps, where the Flank essentially just plays close to the Combo until they sac in or try to get behind the enemy team. A problem with this map however are the high amount of huge sightlines for Snipers. While the map has a similar feel to Coalplant, it could really be used instead of any KotH map, as Coalplant does not need replacement.”

“Didn't play it so Idk”

“Good map, since I already played on halloween version (Cauldron).”

“worst map I've ever played, all this map comes down to is which sniper is better, less sight lines would be better, but the map is overall broken”

“Way too heavy friendly. Every single fight is just at the right range for a heavy, and there isn't too much room to escape.”

“Badly optimized, just like warmtic and designed. The map encourages spawncamping, since the lobby area on each teams sides are massive, while the area around the point is to small. You spend more time walking to the point then actually fighting for it. Also, to sniper friendly and cluttered.”

“This map should stay where it belongs imo. That being the Helloween map pool. Felt chaotic and uncomfortable to play in any way. There are way better koth maps that would deserve a shot into the competitive environment than bagel.”

“I like the rotations on this map but other than that it felt kinda bland still an improvement over cascade because of the performance”

“I don't believe the sniper to be that crazy on bagel especially considering other pl or koth maps where the sniper can often do more while risking less, it's all just a matter of playing around the enemy sniper in your team's composition. Whether that means to send flank classes to get him, but it could also mean camping your flank on your sniper so he can comfortably win the SvS while being babysat. As a koth engineer I can't help but feel how useless minies are on the point because of the nipple in the middle, but maybe this is a good thing. Definitly a novel concept

It just felt like a meme map, chaotic and claustrophobic”

“a great replacement for viaduct”

“Has good flanking opportunities and it's quite fitting for Prolander. Though in terms of class positioning and clutter, warmtic would be the preferred option instead of bagel.”

Forms response chart. Question title: What was your experience with understanding the rules of this test map cup?. Number of responses: 40 responses.

“what does it mean by 3 maps, do i have to play 1 per match or?”

“Finding out that the def. merc rules are noticeably different to most other leagues and cups was a surprise. Otherwise, it is quite easy to understand.”

“People just need to read before playing. Though playing gravelpit twice in group stages was somewhat strange”

“I already knew most of the rules from other tournaments.”

“Good organisation, very easy and fast contact with admins, top notch work really.”

“While most of the rules are clearly formulated, they are not strictly enforced, which is problematic as it basically devalues the rules and make it hard to know when something is acceptable or not. Additionally, Default mercs should not be accepted as easily, as it basically harms the Team that did a better job and gives the other team an unfair advantage when the merc is stronger than a regular player. This also makes this rule very easy to abuse. In general, teams are responsible to get players to matches and should get subs instead of getting free mercs.”

“I thought gravelpit would be played Bo3”

“It was simple to understand the rules and what not. I still don't get why gravelpit was best of 2 though.”

“Rules should be in the server configs. E.g. winlimit 3 in koth”

“Rules were announced in the discord for the cup. Admins were also available to help for any questions

I know how to read.”

“Ruleset was clear, reasonable and understandable. The only thing that confused me was how gravelpit was a BO2 in the groupstage and later got even shortened more to a BO1 in the playoff stage. I can understand that this was a matter of time being available between matches but if gravelpit is played already than it should be BO3 imo.”

“As someone with a couple of seasons of rgl and hl, the rules are no problem whatsoever.”

“Everything was pretty straight forward besides the dates and times of games, for starters a "1 day cup" had 3 days. 1 day which had 0 games played on. In future I would just stick with the one day format, or atleast don't add a day of nothing inbetween.”

“Josh was taking care of it.... >_>”

Forms response chart. Question title: What was your experience with understanding the structure, schedule and format of this test map cup?. Number of responses: 39 responses.

“Again, all good on your front, it's just the people being dumb and lazy”

“I've been playing Prolander since Season 1, and my opinion hasn't changed one bit, that it's pretty easy to understand how the overall schedule worked.”

“Can't really answer this, but it bothers me that we were late with setting up the website and making decisions about formats.”

“Not much to add it was well organised.”

“Fixtures details were announced in the discord for the cup. Admins were also available to help for any questions”

“Not much to say here, was pretty clear.”

“Pre-season cups always tend to be more of a fun experience due to the maps (and sometimes unlocks [ETF2L]) getting banned). Having to do maptalks for maps nobody knows and then playing them is a blast.

Josh was just telling me when to come..”

Forms response chart. Question title: What was your experience with the RGL website?. Number of responses: 40 responses.

“the design was kind of confusing, i never knew i was signed into the map testing tournament”

“Answer somewhere in between of "somewhat" and "very" easy. I do not like the divide between the eu.rgl.gg page and the eu.cup.rgl.gg one. Also that last adress is quite long to be honest.

Now this is where I see a problem. Having multiple websites for each cup is somewhat annoying fof a user to navigate”

“It's pretty decent. You can easily search for players looking for teams, or teams looking for players, as well as the upcoming matches. The notifications provided help, too.”

“It is a broken mess. I listed the issues more than often enough.”

“why having different websites for eu? i had troubles finding player search in eu”

“The UI is not very obvious sometimes, I had to look for something I needed for longer than I wanted to. It's still much better than UGC's website where I can't understand anything, but I think ETF2L's website has a more comprehensible interface than RGL's.”

“Same here one of the most organised sites.”

“The site has clearly labelled boxes showing where they lead to.”

“The Website is all nice and fine but I would appreciate if I could sign up an existing team for such cups and not completely "make" one and invite every single person every time it confuses people and they think they are not in the team anymore, same with between two prolander seasons a simple confirmation from each player to stay in said team would do aswell. Aside of that it was not possible to enter a draw result to the matchcomm. panel But this is kind of high level critics overall I like the website.”

“I'm not a huge fan of the RGL website, especially at first it was kind of weird to use. Now, it's okay. I like the way the player page's are, where you can easily tell how well teams did in their respective season(s)

best site for tf2 imo”

Forms response chart. Question title: What was your experience with regard to getting an admin when needed?. Number of responses: 36 responses.

“thanks albert”

“You guys were just in channel at all times, thanks for that.”

“I didn't call admins”

“All good here”

“I didn't really have to call for an admin, as I wasn't the team leader.”

“Shoutout to Albert, he responded instantly and was really helpful.”

“Can't answer this one, but I think we were always available.”

“Huge thanks to Albert, he responded almost immediately to every question I had.”

“Albert and the other staff respond to me ASAP”

“We only needed an admin once, in order to get a default win. The response wasn't the fastest but it could be slower.”

“Admins could be pm or asked for in the support discord very easily”

“Albert <3 and of course the rests of the admins did a fine job. Probs to them.”

“I can only talk about Albert here cause that was the only admin I had contact with during that cup and Albert did a fantastic and professional job. Fast responses, instantly fixing things or helping out with any kind of problem while being very kind. (I could swear he was so fast he answered my question sometimes before i fully asked it)”

“Having an admin on your team is pretty neat :sunglasses_emoji:”

“didnt need an admin”

“never had to get one myself”

Forms response chart. Question title: What did you think about team placement in your division?. Number of responses: 39 responses.

“my team got steam rolled badly”

“The team was rather uneven, there were a few strong players but the rest were not competitive in the division and it caused a lot of team issues.”

“Was challenging and fun.”

“idk maybe we are so strong?”

“I think we should have been put one div higher, because the enemy teams didn't stand a chance in play-offs.”

“Other than having my first team in there (who also have not showed up at all), all good here.”

“Teams were pretty close with skill, was best what admins could do in div1, however noone had even a small chance to beat 1st place team which was pretty sad, simllar to what happened in regular season last time.

We played against opponents that are too good for us, but that was the only reasonable option so I guess it is fine.”

“the winning team's demoman was playing on a far higher skill level than the rest of his teammates”

“I've played in open and sometimes it felt like I am playing against some invite level players in terms of just pure DM, apart from the overall strategy that the team was using due to how they had more composed team (due to playing together before in HL), while our team consisted of the players who got together for the first time to play the cup. As for the players' levels, for example, take a look at the logs of the grand finals (all from koth_warmtic): invite: http://logs.tf/2333278 div1: http://logs.tf/2333240 div3A: http://logs.tf/2333230 open A: http://logs.tf/2333246 I am taking in account the DA/M and overall kill count (relative to the length of a match) stats for the players, and I am pretty impressed that the players in open division are outperforming the ones in the higher divisions. I, of course, understand, that the game is much more complicated than this and you have to use the previous competitive experience in other leagues to determine the player's level, but some of the games felt very unbalanced, and thus I don't think the team placement was the best it could be.

div 2 was very unbalanced,”

“I would say only the team that came first in div 1 wasn't really belonging there other that that everyone else including us was fine.”

“I understand there were only a few teams in each division so it was hard to get some balance but there was a lot of 3-0s, which does suggest some imbalances but this could probably be solved with just having more teams (easier said than done though).”

“High 6s and HL gamers in Div 2 carried a BIT to hard”

“Always tricky to find the right balance when its only a few teams per division playing. I think in both the last regular season and this cup in RGL it felt the most balanced throughout the leagues. Despite the fact that the Div1 winner team was basically unbeatable and quiet one league above the rest of our bracket.”

“I find it hard to give proper feedback on this because a) I only played one of the three maps due to some time constraints on my end and b) NDF feels in between divs so div3 = ez, div2 = hard. Something that can only improve with time, I'm sure, but I hope it provides some context as to why I couldn't say.

I think the division was actually really balanced, all same skill level players with the exception of 1 player offclassing (amaterasu)”

“We stomped most matches”

“It has felt unbalanced while playing against 2 teams on gravelpit mainly. The difference in experience between the teams was very noticable on that map in particular. Apart from that there were fun and close matches.”

If you have any ideas on how to improve the prizes, discord layout, rule modifications or format for this cup in particular please describe them here

“Base the team placement off of how well rounded they are to more of an extent rather than off of the best player(s)”

“Serveme.tf premium codes would have been nice. Arie is a good lad”

“Discord layout is straight to the point, and simple. Pretty good as is, keep it like that. The prizes were good. Just hoping for the main season, that there's an even better prize compared to the map test cup, which wasn't awful, and made sense with how short the tournament felt.”

“I would like medals for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place. But I know that bringing the medals into the game is more difficult than before. Anyway, I really appreciate your efforts.”

“Please don't make bye week in next season, we come here to play and have fun on every map, would like to play more of 7s because it's a damn fun gamemode, every of my teammates asks constantly when they can play. Last season bye week only made a confusion with points when in some situations it was adding more and in some less since teams were dropping out and for some it was pretty unfair. Also would be cool if in EU more than invite div would get some prizes. Big ask for bringing invite>div1>div2 ect format back, also maybe more EU matches could be casted actually?”

“Ask Sigafoo for permission to edit the rules for EU on the website, so that rule modifications on Discord are no longer necessary.”

“New medals please”

“For 3rd place can be refined metals prize, 1 for each player.”

“I think it would be more fun to have one major tournament 2 elem with a larger prize pool instead of the format used”

“Not really, it's just a test cup. So I would say it was fairly good. Only thing is make gravelpit best of 1 or best of 3. Best of two isn't working.”

“Not sure it was just in our division but we had a 3-0 against a team in the group stages and then were promptly 3-0 by them in the grand finals. The difference being one mid player, which was invited after the group stages I think. So maybe more restrictions around higher level players being allowed in lower divs? Other than that, rules seemed good, reminder on match page was useful, prizes were more than I expected (where is sigafoo getting this money?), layout seemed fine.”

“The prizes are nice, I liked the idea with ToD tickets thats some fresh air to prizepools. Rules are clear and cover the important things but for the future chose wisely which maps will be played because playing 3 totally new or chaotic maps which arent fully ready for competitive yet can be really draining as a player and can cause many people to give out default losses or not attend any future test cups.”

“I love how on each profile you see the amount of 1st place, 2nd, 3rd trophies they have, plus prize money. Site is really easy to use and contacting admins on discord also easy.”

Forms response chart. Question title: If a cup, similar to this one was to be held in the future, would you be interested?. Number of responses: 40 responses.

Any closing comments?

“add first place, second place and third place medals of the medic medal when valve re-opens the chance for new medals.”

“The EU discord logo looks odd”

“cool and good”

“I loved the cup, and I loved admins being there to help. I enjoyed the cup a lot, thank you.

GG, love ya'll”

“Not really. It was fun to play when my team needed me to sub in for them.”

“Thank you very much for your efforts!”

“Please no more borneo, this map is just insenly huge even for HL, not mentioning 7s. Because of having less players it's impossible to cover so many flanks, keep combo alive and take care of cart, matches were just huge chaos even in invite. But yeah, thank you a lot for such great gamemode! Looking forward to play more of prolander, can't wait for the season to start.”

“It was fun to Play :D”

“e”

“Banana”

“I love prolander but I think the weapons ban should be worked on like for pyro they sold ban the scorcshot and detonator or just unban darwins or the cozy camper cuz pyro to over powered tbh.

I'd like to try out some more different maps, even if those ones didnt work out so well.”

“Thank you for that fun experience!”

“Thanks for paying attention.”

“I hope you guys continue hosting cups like these. I honestly had so much fun and same goes for everyone on my team.”

“Thx for running the league”

“Thanks for the cup, was lots of fun.”

“sigafoo/ NA please give EU a bit more love and attention, thanks <3”

“Thanks for giving us that cup and thanks for the overall great work and project you pull here RGL team. Please keep up the good work but also please show some more love for the EU sector give us traditional HL or 6s if possible maybe prizepools for more than only invite in regular seasons. I am sure many more european players would join in since the amount of proper leagues in tf2 is quiet shrinking. Dont let people think that 7v7 is a meme lets prove them wrong this gamemode is epic”

“weeeeeeeeeh albert why did you remove my rank 5 status :BabyRage: :PJSalt:”

“RGL: THE REVIVAL. love u guys xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx”

“Thank you for the cup!”

“Keep up the good work <3”