About Max’s Server and Karma

日本のユーザーの場合は、「Update 7 」をご覧ください。

Please check Update 3 and Update 4 down below before making any judgements on this situation, thank you.

I really hate to be doing this, but as some of you in the gay NSFW art community (as in WITHIN the community of gay men drawing gay porn) may have noticed, a lot of popular NSFW artists have recently been hit by both Twitter and Patreon and were subsequently suspended. A lot of people and artists simply assumed that this was due to Twitter and Patreon becoming more strict, and while that can still be the case, it has come out that a big chunk of the reason a lot of artists were targeted by Twitter and Patreon were because of targeted mass reports and a hate mob that was forming in an artist’s (Max_Draws_Stuff AKA RevealYourSins) server. Two prominent people in that server being Karma_The_Sage and Torbjorn.

NOTE: The old link to this document is gone. Use this link for further interactions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vT7ixo2DkoPzbEBmCdqjS_64dwJGEXAwan-4Hn9LFSuyRt3JqAaRNZCD0xA1AqETZCZm299Rezp5ivw/pub

EDIT: We were able to talk to TorbjornLindhlm (mentioned in Update 2) and he has clarified his involvement and also apologized. You can read about it on Update 5 down below.

On his discord server, which he has linked on his public Twitter, the user Max and his supporters basically go on OBSESSIVE lengths about what artists should be “avoided” or straight up mass-reported (basically cutting off from their livelihood that these artist make money from) on a “cancel-channel” dedicated to ruining other artists’ livelihoods:

I’ve decided to blur all of the artists’ name so they wouldn’t be forcefully connected to this, but this list has indeed been shared to every single artist on the list, so if any of the artists want to come out and confirm that this is real and that they’re on it, they can feel free to step forward.

If you read the list, you might have guessed what their “cancelling” targets usually are. They all draw some kind of art or kinks they deem as “problematic” with descriptions going from “has drawn incest and underage characters” to merely having “follows a small amount of blacklist topics” as a reason for ostracisation and/or mass-reporting.

Now, we can all have this giant debate whether or not it is understandable to dislike or hate problematic fictional content, but it is a whole different thing to publicly compile a giant list of artists who draw FICTIONAL porn, or even just artists who are friends with people who draw “problematic” fictional porn, to then all defame them by calling them all “pedophiles who should all be in jail” and then try to mess with their source of income.

Again, you can hate on fictional incest, shota or loli porn all you like, but you DON’T mess with someone’s livelihood and their bag just because YOU have a problem that they’re bigger and more successful than you despite drawing things you find icky. That’s the absolutely most unprofessional and lowest that you as a fellow artist yourself can sink. Especially since it is clear based on all the public chats on that public server, that Max and Karma care more about being perceived as morally superior than actually being morally sound and good people.

Remember that giant list above? In it, there’s literally one person reviewed as “Publicly stated that he was 16 when he started drawing NSFW. He claimed that he thought there wasn’t anything wrong with it, but now has learned” and even though that line “but now has learned” is in the review, that artist is still under the “General Avoid” category, meaning that they don’t even care for people’s betterment or believe that people even deserve a second chance. They are literally just moral-grandstanding and use any excuse or reason to permanently place another artist beneath them and under the target of their community/fans.

The discord chats below are between Karma and Max and some of their fans and were taken from their public server.

Karma                                 =                Karma

Victor Chevalier’s Butt                 =                 Max

Max, Karma and their friends straight up revel in taking down people they deem as beneath them, stalking them just to get happy and laugh when people on their blacklist have hardships in their lives, because again, these artists are all “horrible pedos” to them so it’s okay.

I’m speaking about artists I’ve talked to for years and had the most fun interacting with. Artists that have supported and helped me grow when I was a smaller artist. Artists that were actually even surprised to find themselves on this public list even though they have previously talked and had nice conversations with them. Artists that I know for a fact would never hurt a single fly and definitely would never stoop so low as to laugh at someone’s hospitalization just because they “follow a small amount of blacklist topics” (because yes, the person they were laughing at was merely FOLLOWING the wrong circles, to make them feel this sick joy at another real person’s misfortune).

I’m talking about artists who have grown their follower base and their accounts for more than 6 years, just to have it taken from them because of their pettiness and jealousy.

Again, I don’t give a single fuck if you hate the art and fictional content someone makes, but in this business, this unprofessional behavior to go after someone’s livelihood and this goofy ass cosplaying of Light Yagami/Kira is not only unsportsmanlike but straight up dishonorable, especially since you were bold and stupid enough to do all of this on a public server, which very much can be categorised as libel.

There’s probably nothing I can say or do to convince Max and Karma and people like them to change their ways or to stop these obsessive crusades, and I definitely will fall onto deaf ears when it comes to people who read this and see nothing wrong with what Max and Karma are doing, but what I can do is to warn other artists as well as other people in the gay nsfw community who don’t want anything to do with a person and community like Karma’s to stay the fuck away from them and not support such behavior.

Update 1: The “cancel-channel” apparently has been deleted with the statement that Max had no idea or part in the creation of that list or had no idea what Karma was doing. The cancel-channel was apparently only meant for politics.

Now while kinda I smell bullshit on that (because how the fuck do you run a server with a channel named “cancel-channel” and don’t know the hell is going on in there or what one of your moderators is doing?), I’ll just choose to give him the benefit of the doubt and just take his word that it was all Karma.

Either way, the fact that the channel is gone and that Max apparently told people to take their vendetta outside of the server is at least a tiny step into the right direction.

Update 2: (There’s further info on this person on Update 5) New screenshots have come out from the now deleted cancel-channel, a lot of these going even back as far as 2021 with evidence that Max was seemingly not as clueless of what was happening as he claimed he was. The following screenshots are from another person who participated in these hate mobs going by “Torbjorn” on Twitter.

Step on me Gibraltar        =                Torbjorn

(“Disgusting waste of DNA” … cute)

(Proof that Max was aware of the hate mob growing on his server)

(Max states that “he never created the list in the first place” and that he thought this was not a cancel list but a “to be avoided” list.

Whether or not he is really being honest here or not, he still created this whole channel to “cancel people” in the first place and there's evidence that he has encouraged this obsessive hate mob mentality and stalker behavior instead of condemning it. So his ignorance narrative is questionable at least.)

Update 3: It’s come to the attention of the people on this list that this situation has been used to villainize gay artists in general and we really want to clarify that this drama started WITHIN the gay NSFW art community. All of the people on that list were prominent gay NSFW artists that drew “problematic art.” If you’re using this situation to bash gay people and gay artists in general, you’re not the people who this call out was made for. The artists I mentioned above, including me, ARE gay NSFW artists drawing “problematic art” ourselves.

Also, please remember that this doc was written to warn other artists as well as show people like these mentioned on the doc are not looked upon kindly and should know this is not behavior one should just get away with. This is NOT a call to dox or harm anyone mentioned in this document.

Update 4: To clarify, the narrative that it was targeting mainly Japanese artists isn’t true. It mainly targeted popular western gay artists, though gay Japanese artists who were big enough to be known in the west were also on that list.

Update 5: We were able to talk to Torbjorn and he has clarified the extent of his involvement and also apologized for it.

(He clarifies that he was involved in this channel around 2021, but stopped after regretting his involvement and also apologized for his past actions. This conversation happened on someone else’s server.)

(These last two screenshots are from a private DM conversation.)

Update 6: (This will probably be the last update on this doc) The narrative that this doc is "misleading" and defamatory based on the claim that "the cancel-channel was actually only meant as an avoid list" coming from that server is honestly just tiring and an obvious attempt to damage control because there's clear proof that, no matter what the channel was "originally" meant for, the channel ended up being used to take people's accounts down. Seriously, just quit the bullshitting.

You don't create a giant list like that just to "avoid" artists. If that list really was only used to "avoid" artists, then why is there even a category on that list that says "General Avoid" and why are only a few of them in the category? What's the "Definitely Drawn Blacklist Topics" category for if the entire list was only for avoiding the people?

Well, I can tell you what it was for. Reporting.

They should honestly just stick to their principles and admit that they did it because they thought these people should be deplatformed. Just how this doc didn’t have to hide the fact of what art these artists on the list were attacked for. Simple as that.

And chances are, many people reading this doc might even agree with their actions because "these artists drawing problematic porn are all just pedophiles who want to fuck their siblings/fathers or condone rape anyway, so it's fine" or people might think "even if they aren't actual pedophiles and don't actual want to fuck their family members or condone rape, online discourse has taught me that that kind of porn normalizes pedophilia, incest and rape anyway, so it's still fine to target them."

And to that I really just have to say that you should really do some actual research instead, which includes reading psychological studies on why taboo fantasies exist in the first place.

I didn't want to have to go into it, but it's really tiresome when you're constantly caricaturized as a monster who wants to literally hurt children or fuck your family because (and I say that with massive side-eye) some of your fellow gays would rather promote sexual repression and kink-negativity as a cure for all when, really, the thing they should rather promote is actual good sex-education, which includes learning about the nature of kinks and why they exist and why it's okay for them to exist and for people to have time.

Take the Non-Con-Kink for example. Does every single person who has that kink genuinely want to be raped or rape other people? Or is it that non-con as a kink in roleplay and fiction is simply people taking the desire of "I want to be desired" to the max by turning it into the fantasy of "I'm so desirable that I don't even have a choice"? Or the desire of "I want to be the main focus" taken to the max of "I'm so important that my desires are more important than the desires of others?"

Same thing with incest and ageplay during roleplay or in fiction. What if someone is into incestuous ageplay because it is the desire of "I want the bond between my lover to be strong" taken to the extreme of "The bond between me and my lover is so strong because we literally are bonded by blood from an early age and our love is also stronger than any social taboos"?

Again, there can be a MILLION reasons why certain people have certain kinks and you may find the reasons weird and icky, but to just assume that they all actually want to be raped, want to rape other people, want to promote rape, or walk up to the suppreme court and demand incest to be legalized so they can marry their family, is absolutely ridiculous.

And don't even get me started on the amount of people who mindlessly lump in actual victims of rape and child sexual abuse into the same category as their abusers just because they use dark fantasies and kinks as a way to cope. Because, yes, if you people actually cared enough to listen to all victims and cared about all of this, you might have learned that a lot of victims use dark fiction--even the ones that romanticize their abuse--as a way of coping. For example, examining traumatic themes through a fictional aka safe environment where csa victims can imagine a fantasy version of their past self who are actually in control in that situation or simply enjoying it is actually bringing narrative power back to the victims. Of course, this is not every victim’s journey, but it definitely is one that has been approved by therapists.

Here are some videos from people who talk about that exact topic in case anyone's interested to, you know, treat fellow human beings with interest and compassion and not just see them as caricatured devils to be checked off on a "to be removed from the planet of this earth" list:

Twilight | ContraPoints by ContraPoints

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqloPw5wp48

Purity Culture & Fandom ... Issa Mess by Princess Weekes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHr-ABz2YI0

A Response To Noralities From A Gay Shotacon by Shota-kun - しょたくん

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFfvPEU3cgA 

This is gonna be it for this doc. Take this information however you like and decide for yourself what you want to do with it. What I certainly took away from all of this (and from being a csa victim who copes with problematic fiction myself) is that the solution to people doing sexual crimes is not to ban all "problematic fiction" and shame people into oblivion for having dark kinks, but to actual promote concise sex-education so that people are educated on crucial things before they end up treating porn as a substitute for sex-education, which porn absolutely does NOT need to be. Being able to look at dark kinks and fantasies and being able to say "This is only okay in fiction, but not in real life" shouldn't take mind-acrobatics for people to pull off.

Also not to be a petty bitch, but… I get that not everyone’s gonna be comfortable with porn of underage characters, I get that, but being so butt-hurt over fictional INCEST? Gurl, I know you’re fucking lying. I can see that private side account. It’s fine. Like, live a little. Damn.

Update 7:

この投稿を読んでください。

→ https://twitter.com/BON_BisexuaL/status/1764533045296849276