1.19 Voting Your Hopes 

INTRO: Welcome to the BiCurean podcast. Where we explore and embrace the seeming contradictions of life. What actually is BiCurean you ask? What's happening right now in terms of the divisions between us is a focus on that which is different. And lack of understanding and empathy for people's beliefs  is no longer an excuse. And it is in the differences we carry in ourselves  that we find the BiCurean moment. When you really dig into something you are going to see some depth to it. It's not just a race thing, it's just a conservation thing. It's letting go of the 'or' to make room for the 'and'. We embrace all of you. Welcome to the BiCurean.  

ERIK: Welcome to the BiCurean  podcast. I am Erik.

AICILA: And I'm Aicila.  

ERIK: And this week we have a special guest. We're gonna let her introduce herself.

LINDA: I'm the Executive Director of Ranked Choice Voting for Colorado.

ERIK: Welcome to the show.

AICILA: Yeah I'm  so excited you were able to make time to talk to us today. And I would love for you to tell us just a little bit about Ranked Choice Voting for Colorado. The organization and then also Ranked Choice Voting, what is that?

LINDA: Fantastic. Fantastic. Well thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. And to share with people what ranked choice voting is. Because it's one of those things people are not familiar with but there is around a hundred and twenty countries that use this system of voting to eliminate the spoiler effect. So the spoiler effect is when you're stuck in a position of having to vote the lesser of two evils or that sort of thing. And that- voting the lesser of two evils is what has gotten us to where we are today as a country.

AICILA: Agreed.

ERIK:  I can totally feel that. I- I admit the last few elections have been really tough in that regard. So ... when Aicila brought this up and gave me a just a small outline of what it was ... I'm still not super familiar. So I'm I'm very excited to get into it but I already like what you said there because I wish there was something that made me at least feel like there was an alternative to picking which thing I hated the least when ballot time came.

LINDA: And that's one of the things that I suspect really turns people off to elections in general. I mean there was  the city of Santa Fe that just held their first ranked choice voting election. And they saw their turn out go up by ten percent.

AICILA: Is that significant? I'm not familiar with increases but that sounds significant to me. LINDA: Oh, it's huge. It's huge. And that you can get that kind of an increase out of- you know without having to spend extra money or have some you know have your local election going on at the same time as a ... higher election.

AICILA: Umhum.

LINDA: That's amazing to get more people involved in you know our our shared communities. ERIK: Yeah that's fantastic. So why don't we start here ... for me, and our listeners, that have no idea other than the rough outline that I I did get on this. Maybe you can explain what it is and kind of where it comes from.

LINDA: Okay so what it is, is that on the ballot all you do is you rank your choices from your favorite to your least favorite. So you just kind of say here's what I really want. And then here's my backup plan. So like let's say you were ... going to get some bagels and you were in the mood for one of those raisin bagels. But they were out well you wouldn't say forget it I'm leaving. You'd say well I don't know what's the back up? Do you have the cranberry or the blueberry but you know like last  - last option would be the everything ba- bagel because look I got to talk to people and I don't want to smell like garlic. You know it's not not when I'm in the mood for breakfast. So you just kind of rank your choices like that. Well it's very intuitive because people have backup plans. I mean that's part of daily life.

ERIK: Absolutely.

LINDA: Yeah so it's very- it's very intuitive. It's very easy to use. And- and people like it.

AICILA: Yeah. Well and I remember when I was ... working with RCV  a little bit. One of the things they talked about is people use this daily now. You know on Amazon and Yelp, people are always- you don't rate something yes or no. You give it between one and five stars. You rank it.

LINDA: R.ight. Right. And it's very ... it's it's very intuitive you know. So it's ... it's one of those things that we're we're used to being able to really have a voice to say this is what I like.  So anytime you're painted into a corner where you have to pick the lesser of two evils and get strategic about it. You know that turns people off to it. And people don't want to participate. I mean I had a neighbor saying to me I you know in twenty sixteen, it's like Claire Underwood  is running against Tony Soprano. I can't you know there are people who vote in every single election who couldn't vote. They just couldn't bring themselves to do it.

ERIK: Yeah.

LINDA: And they couldn't wrap their heads around the idea of voting for somebody who wasn't one of the main two candidates.

ERIK: Well I I do feel like this would actually help with third party as as you bring that up because it is about like the main two. But I feel like other people's voices might be heard. Right now you've got third parties that are throwing you know these candidates out there. And they're happy to get two or three percent of the vote. And and they're constantly trying to climb high enough on the ladder to get you know actual support from from-

AICILA:   My understanding is they're looking for five percent because that opens them up to certain kinds of national uh like it  puts them into the national debates I believe.

ERIK: And some finding things I believe, yeah.  We we can pull some of that for the show- for the show notes. But I I do know the yeah like five percent's a magic number. But you know, it seems like with this system it might actually give some credence to some of those people. That you know  we did some show prep and we were talking about the idea of throwing away your vote. And for the most part what I've seen is that most people want to vote third party or want to vote for something idealistic but feel like they're going to waste their vote. And with this you could still give a five  ought of you know five stars to somebody and give four stars to your favorite third party candidate. They'll get some notice in that ranking system even if-

AICILA: It goes that I think with  RCV, with ranked choice, you- The way I understand it- ou can you can correct me here- is if there are three candidates I liked. Or shouldn't say that, if there were three candidates that were my choices, I would say that the one I like the best, even if I don't think they're as likely to win, would be my first rank. And then I would go for my backup plan, my second and then my third. And then if that first person doesn't have  ... the threshold to win, then my second person gets move up to the first position. So that my vote still counts. Is that sort of a a good way to say it?

LINDA: Yeah that's that's it in a nutshell.  So what happens is that they tally up everybody's first choice. And if somebody has a majority, then they win. So that's pretty straightforward. And that happens sometimes, that you have a candidate who wins in the first round. And then what you do is you want to keep everybody viable as long as possible. So you just start from the bottom ranking if you will. Or not ... it starts from the ... the least popular candidate is dropped. And then that candidate's ballots, those voters next choices are counted. And it ... and then whoever is in last place is eliminated. And it keeps going in rounds of instant run offs until  a candidate has a majority.

ERIK: Got it. It sounds like a cool system. ... It begs the question, you know in a world where there seems to be voter fraud and just all of these sorts of things are there ways that you have thought about ... to address some of that? Like how how best to still keep it fair? Is there is there considerations around that?

LINDA: Absolutely. Absolutely because there's nothing as awful as a great idea that's poorly roll- rolled out. So ... now we have the best elections in the country here in Colorado because we're all paper ballot.

ERIK: Yeah.

LINDA: And so we're able to audit the results. So the Secretary of State's office has put together audit standards for ranked choice voting elections. And he's worked with the county clerks to ... promulgate  best practices.

AICILA: Wow. So one of the things that I had mentioned before we started recording that in my reading up on this that I found to be very interesting. I was looking at FairVote dot org. ... They have a lot of different information about the voting systems. And and they're very supportive of ranked choice. And they said that this ... was first suggested the nineteenth century by a member of parliament, John Stuart Mill.

ERIK: Parliament in the UK by the way.

AICILA: In the U. K., yeah. Who wanted to give the minority a voice in the face of their concern. The the ruling class, the wealthy class, was concerned that the growing middle class would eventually have a majority. And therefore it displace the establishment in government. And I thought that was kind of an interesting thing that it was it was started first by the- the sort of ruling class to protect their ability to continue to participate. And that it's been around since the mid nineteenth  century, which I didn't I didn't have that information before. So I don't know ... if you can speak to that at all? Or even just the history of it here in Colorado or America?

LINDA: Sure. Sure. And it's ... a great concept that kind of got thwarted here in the states. ... But there are two variants of ranked choice voting. Which is to say it's the same system. It's sort of like if you think of a bicycle. If you're riding the bike and you're only using one speed but you're riding a ten speed bike, is that still a ten speed?

AICILA: Yes.

LINDA: Yes it's still a ten speed bike. So there's  the multi winner  election which ...  is let's say you have a district. And this is really the best way I I could think of ranked choice get voting getting rolled out. But that you have a district where there's several representatives, so it isn't a winner take all system. So let's say you have three political factions in an area. And two of them are similar. You can still have, under winner take all, you can have the minority faction, or the statistically minority faction, win because the majority is you know divided. So under ranked choice voting its ... in the multi winter it's best if you have an odd number of representatives who can then represent different ... view point ... viewpoints within the community. So that's one of the things that ... particularly conservatives here in the states are very interested in. Is that they ... wouldn't have to worry so much about the gamesmanship. That they could just speak to their values and what it is they truly want. And you know if they only get you know their  ... segment of the population votes for them. They still get a segment of the seats. It isn't they're  totally out of the picture electorally.  ... For  single winner it's still you know a winner take all. But one of the things it does is it prevents a extremist candidate from winning. So let's say ... and I don't want to go out on a limb and pick on anybody who may be in office right now but ... ... there- imagine a primary that's split between maybe ten candidates ... you know for a very popular and interesting office. ... And then you have people voting in that primary. You could have an extremist candidate winning with like twelve percent of the vote because everybody else is split amongst all those other candidates. While this extremist candidate   wouldn't be anybody's idea of  a backup plan.

ERIK: Right.

LINDA: So you'd have a more moderate candidate winning when you have to get a consensus win together. So that's one of the benefits we're seeing to ranked choice voting in places that use it. Is that you know extremists can still you know ... run a candidate. They can still be heard in the debates. But they don't necessarily win office because they have alienated people.

ERIK: You know, I'd- That makes total sense. And I I actually really like that. I think you're absolutely right. And in fact I see it could change sort of the dynamic we have that that drives me crazy right now. Which is that essentially during the primaries you got everybody trying to be the best Democrat and the best Republican. And they swing really hard to their left or right leanings that they would have to be. And it almost sets up the system then you know once that each party selects that candidate. They almost have to swing their view points back to be more moderate and and central. ... Because it's no longer a popular vote amongst your far if you had a left or right leaning party. It's now the the the majority popularity vote. And I feel like that that just it's very disillusioning to watch candidates have to do that. I think this does set up a system where they could run on their platform the entire time. And be who they are. And make it all the way to the end you know final vote and still be the person that they were when they started. LINDA: Yeah it gets very hard to know who to vote for when they've changed their position so many times.

ERIK: And they they  have to. I mean in a lot of regards to win. You know ... I what I was recently hearing something confirmed that I always knew, which is that the moderate you know, that the people in the middle is actually the largest voting group. It's easy you know. And so you ... these candidates have to go through this process of winning their party. Which is going to come down to them being the most whatever, you know left or right. But then yeah they they almost have no choice. Because in order to appeal to the majority of voters in a state or in the country, they have to they have to change their position. And and it's something we've just come to accept. But it's really hard to watch.

LINDA: My goodness. It is. It is. And it makes the- the races so acrimonious because you just have to be better than the other candidates.

ERIK: Which is why they resort to attack ads of course.

AICILA: I remember that that joke great day I don't have to be faster than the bear. I have to be faster than my campmate  in to avoid getting eaten. And I feel a little bit like that's how our political races are going. It's not necessarily I'm trying to run fast. I'm just trying to run faster than someone who's gonna get caught by the bear. Like it's not a really hopeful, progressive, inspiring vision for the future. Which might be why a lot of people don't wanna vote.

LINDA: Oh yeah. Yeah it does ... you know there is a person who is involved in ranked choice voting, who was off in Sweden,  I want to say twenty years ago. And there was an election going on at the time. And he was just so surprised how pleasant it was. And how it was very focused on the issues. So the candidates weren't smearing each other. They were just saying this is what I think is a good idea for our community. And he was you know just so surprised that people could act like that. Because one of the things I've learned in ... you know studying politics and studying psychology is people behave based on the system they're in. And in this system you have to reach out not just to your base but to the people in the middle and the people on the whatever the other side is supposed to be. You have to talk to everybody because you're not gonna win if you only talk to your base. You need to be somebody's back up plan. Very few candidates win on you know in the first round. I mean it happens but you have to have a darn good platform to do it. So it really it changes the ... the political calculus.

AICILA: That makes a lot of sense. Now didn't- didn't one state actually pass ranked choice voting as their state ... voting procedure in the two thousand sixteen election. I feel like that was a way of hope that that I saw.

LINDA: Yeah the state of Maine passed ranked choice voting. And they used it for the first time this summer in their  primaries. So that was fantastic. And it worked exactly like it should. You know, no surprises there. So that really is a ray of hope. And what they did is they used ranked choice voting in Portland, Maine. And then they got enough people used to how ranked choice voting works and they had enough administrative understanding of how to you know run the elections. And that you know you get the software upgrade. And you know you run the ballots like this. And they were able to do it and it worked perfectly. So here in Colorado, we have Telluride that uses ranked choice voting. They've done it twice. It's worked both times exactly how it's supposed to. And there are more cities that are considering it. So I get requests from cities  all the time to speak to their city council members or their county clerks or to present to the city councils. So that's or with you know talk to various commissions. Ah, the city of Pueblo will be having it on there as an initiative. We're in petition phase right now. And we are hoping to get on the January ballot. Which sounds odd but that's what we're going for. And they would roll it out and implement in November of twenty nineteen. Now the League of Women Voters has said they will back us for a statewide initiative.

AICILA: Wow.

LINDA: If more cities than just Telluride   run ranked choice voting.

AICILA: Wow.

LINDA: Which means if Pueblo  goes, we could be set up to do it that way here in Colorado, to vote on whether we do it in twenty twenty.

AICILA: That's exciting.

ERIK: Wow. Yeah that is really. That's cool. So this is this is more than just kind of a pipe dream. It sounds like it's actually getting some traction ... here and around the country right now. LINDA: Absolutely.   And one of the things I enjoy the most is that you know I I talk with people all over. ... So I'm talking with ... seriously random people on the street. Talking to them about ranked choice voting.

AICILA: Good job.

LINDA: And people understand it. They get it really quickly. I usually- now I'm going to wave  a graphic  at you. I usually have a hand bill or something I can use. So we'll be able to post that in the notes. It's easier with a hand bill.

AICILA: I believe it, yeah.

LINDA: But .. you know, here's what your ballot looks like. Oh yeah I totally get that. Where do I sign? Stop talking, okay.

ERIK: So this doesn't sound like it's a terribly partisan kind of thing, right? I mean  most of the people you talk to are are are the are they nervous about it? Are they- they distrustful of this system? Or do they buy in?

LINDA: Oh they love it. And people all over the political spectrum, which has been really encouraging for me. Because you know I I you know volunteered on campaigns for years and years. And I got so into the pol- you know partisan mentality that going to the "other side's" you know conventions or events  and talking to people. I was expecting oh they'll be awful to me. No. They really say, this is great. This is fantastic. We hate voting for the lesser of two evils. I would like to vote my actual values and my hopes and my dreams. And I hate it when it gets ugly. You know and we are in this together. And yes everybody needs to be heard. So these basic values of fairness are things we share. And so that was that was so surprising to me. And I you know that's that's really get what gets me motoring in the morning is knowing that we really have a way forward finally.

ERIK: Yeah it sounds like it. So  ... I'm curious what do you see as like challenges and stuff? ... We could probably spend the next however long we're gonna be recording for talking about the problems with the electoral college and all of those people. Is this- is it- can this be made compatible with the system ... if it were to raise up even to the national level?

LINDA: So ... for the electoral college, we'd have to do away with it to use ranked choice voting for the presidential races, in the general. So that's on of those gosh, maybe in ten years that can happen.

ERIK: I can't of too many of my friends that wouldn't be sad about that but.

LINDA: No, right. Yeah.

ERIK: Like like the electoral college has become the the scapegoat of all of the problems, no matter what you know. Like the last several elections it's always been down to who won the popular vote and and and but the electoral college messed it up. And it's it's gone in favor of both of the major parties ... at different times. So very interesting thing to kinda you know think about this could be not only way to empower voters but also solve that problem from the point of view of how the electoral college has worked or not work to depending on what year it was. LINDA: Can you imagine the presidential campaign being run like this?

AICILA: I can. Oh yes.        ... So much better.

LINDA: It's like, wow we can finally have nice things that would be nice. So the way they have it set up in Maine is that it's for everything from the presidential primary down to the lowest state office .So that's RTD  board, school board, all of that.

ERIK: Gotcha. So people can actually see it working ... in in some real elections even if it's not all the way up to the presidential election. Right now.

LINDA: Right. Right. Well I mean and the presidential primary that would be nice to see you know run that way.

ERIK: Yeah. Yeah absolutely.

AICILA: One of the things I feel like I heard as a suggested barrier to this was the cost to implement. And I would love to have you speak to that.

LINDA: Absolutely. So all of the ... major software manufacturers make a  ranked choice voting module. So that already exist. So we're not stuck with whatever our mean vendor is selling. So ... now Ranked Choice Voting for Colorado is I say militantly nonpartisan. We're also militantly agnostic as to software vendor. You're staying well out of that one.

AICILA: Okay. ...

LINDA: So there's that. But ... so it's not a huge cost and what I'd really like to see is that when we update our software in twenty twenty that whatever we get is ... has that ranked choice voting module. Because currently for ... Pueblo  like they're going to have to buy that module. Now they're gonna save more than that amount of money on ... not having run offs. So for some places it saves money. Like in Denver they have to spend over a million dollars every time they have to have a run off.

AICILA: I gotcha.

LINDA: Because they have a requirement for a majority winner. So they then have a top two run off. But ... this saves a lot of money and a lot of ... grief with candidates having to run again a month later raise the money for it. And then having the lower turnout. So for many places it saves money to have ranked choice voting. For other places that aren't saving money, they're getting the benefit of increased turnout. But we're we want to be really mindful of not ... generating extra cost for, for instance rural communities, that are really strapped anyway. We'd prefer to see the state do this as a you know as a bulk program.

AICILA: That makes sense if the state is going to do an update anyway they might as well add this to their update package.

LINDA: That is my hope. That is my hope. And the the Secretary of State's office has been fantastic ... really doing the work ... to make sure that if this is where we're going we're going to have a successful rollout.

ERIK: Yeah that's wonderful. So this begs the question. You're obviously doing great work, and you're speaking and you're doing all of this. How can our listeners help if they want to?

LINDA: Gosh okay. Well the interweb  is the thing. And so we have our website is RCV, like ranked choice voting for ef- oh - ar Colorado dot org. And we're also on the Facebook and the Twitter. But ... the website has

ERIK: We'll get those links from the you and put them up. So yeah.

LINDA: There it is. And so on our get involved page, there's a bunch of different options. If you are, for instance, ... running for office, or you're an office holder, you can or really anybody can endorse ranked choice choice and we can quote you somewhere. ... We put on just for fun elections to educate people on how ranked choice voting works. So we put on ... beer  elections seem to be pretty popular. People get like a flight of beers and then you vote on which beer should go on special. And uh those  have been working well. ... We have a so like the ballot design, here now I'm gonna wave a thing at you but this is the ballot design that was put together by Center for Civic Design. So this is what we can expect our ballots to look like in the future. And ... we have an app that then shows the tally display. So you see how it works. And it's really ... it's really pretty fun. It's quick. It's easy. So ... you can help volunteer at one of these events or invite us to present your groups. ... Can  I say it doesn't have to be beer? Pastries and candy have also been pretty popular.

AICILA: That's great.

ERIK: Yeah I just feel like this is something that if people learn about it I think I think you could have a real serious affect on changing things. And to be honest ... I'm I've been so disillusioned since twenty sixteen and even a little before that with the way that things have gone. I feel like this is a legitimate you know option to re empower the voters; make them feel better about their solutions; and in its it is that it doesn't feel in any way like a partisan   sort of thing so it's easy to get behind. It's not- there's no agenda, no hidden agenda. And I think it would really just improve the system.

AICILA: I'm pretty sure our founding meeting was a Libertarian, Democrat, Republican,   a couple Green Party members, and some Independents like it was- and then a couple of like I don't vote but I'm interested in this as an option. Like, I feel like it was a very wide variety of ideologies. Which is why I thought, wow this is a great a great movement. It actually can bring us together politically at a time when everything feels really fractured.

ERIK: And it feels hugely less just divisive  than our current system right now.

LINDA: Right and it's as if we're supposed to hate each other. We're neighbors. I mean, my goodness we we have so much in common. And that we get you know our ... our politics you can get  us into a mindset where you know somebody or the other is the enemy or the other side. And they're absolutely not.

ERIK: Yeah. Well they ... it is I mean everybody's just on each other right now. And it's you know ... we were having a talk and this might come up in a future podcast ... both planning for health around the holidays as well as planning for family health about not discussing politics. Because I cannot think of a time that I've been alive when it would probably be more frowned upon to discuss politics over the Thanksgiving table this year. It just seems to be tearing families and and friendships apart right now. So yeah I'm all in favor of anything that gets us back to discourse, as opposed to just anger and and resentment.

LINDA: It's- it's true and it's a nice ... that there is you know something hopeful that we can work for together. And you know we have this ... Pueblo  campaign coming up. And so ... people can of volunteer and make phone calls from the comfort of their own homes. And uh so that's that's been exciting. So   we'll give you those links too.

AICILA: Yeah please do.  Thank you so much for taking the time to be on the show. Really really appreciate you talking about this.

ERIK: Yeah thank you. ... I'm I've learned a lot and I'm I am totally in favor of this now that I know all about it so. ... Very suddenly do I ascribe to any any hard core beliefs on here but this one I'm kind of behind so.

LINDA: This is fantastic. Fantastic. Well we'll have to keep you guys in the loop for the next ah beer election coming up which is ... Why it is Tuesday and ... oh here it is Tuesday, October twenty third on ... Colfax at the Bar Fly at Alamo Draft House, Sloan's Lake.

ERIK: Excellent.

LINDA: Sick of  election season? Come on out.

AICILA: Sounds good.

ERIK: Excellent. Well thank you very much.

AICILA: Allright.  You have a good night.

LINDA: Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

ERIK: Welcome to the BiCurean moment.

AICILA: All right. So we're- we're gonna go full political. Don't turn this off ... for today. Ranked choice voting and then I'm gonna talk about amendment seventy four. For those of you who don't live in Colorado this may not be as interesting to you but I promise you should still listen because it's kind of an interesting concept.

ERIK: And and the subject is important because as you're going to point out ... it's been proven why it failed in another state.

AICILA: Actually two other states.  I did  a minimal amount of research however ... basically there's a ballot initiative that, I just had the language for it and I have now lost the language. Because that's my day today. What it does is it's called the "compensation for eeduction in fair market value by government law or regulation". So that's that's the whole amendment.

ERIK: Seems pretty simple.

AICILA: Yeah it does.

ERIK: So so the government does something and my house or property or something loses value ... they're gonna compensate me for it.

AICILA: Right.

ERIK: Sounds great. Sign me up.

AICILA: Sign ya up.

ERIK: I'm gonna vote yes for that.

AICILA: Right. So it sounds like a really great initiative. And there's just like a bunch of stuff about it that makes it really not great. ... One is, and I love this the article that I I got was written by a gentleman who is a lawyer, and he said really it's just gonna ... every - the only people who are gonna win on this is the lawyers because of all the lawsuits. He said, I'm not against lawyers because I am one. And I was like well I guess that's fair. But really they shouldn't get this level of advantage. So basically what it would what it would do is, for example, if a zoning  regulation made it so that your house no longer had a view, you can sue the government for the change in value for your property.

ERIK: Right so somebody built a building because of a zoning regulation in front of your window.

AICILA: Right. And then if the person who wanted to build the building, couldn't build the building because of your view, ... and that's a zoning regulation, they could sue the government for compensation for their loss of value.

ERIK: Right.

AICILA: Do you see  how that works?

ERIK: So lawsuits galore.

AICILA: Lawsuits galore. ... And so what I thought was very interesting ... it said         one ... the property   owners on sort of all sides of an issue could sue for compensation.

ERIK: Right.

AICILA:   ... He's calling it a legal free for all. He said that there were two states that passed this ... or a measure similar to this. Oregon reported over seven thousand claims filed against the state totaling nineteen point five billion dollars after passage of its law. The voters called Mulligan and repealed it just three years later. Arizona passed a much more narrow version of amendment seventy four and they quickly saw property owners fighting other property owners in court. Most of the towns now routinely grant zoning waivers as a way to avoid these inevitable lawsuits. Both of the states mentioned, Arizona and Oregon, had several exceptions built into the law including some that account for public health and safety. So if you know you had to keep a chemical plant ... a certain amount away from your ... property that you couldn't sue  about something like that right.

ERIK: Got it.

AICILA: Amendment seventy four dispenses with even those protections so public health and safety are not included as exceptions for what you could sue over considering a loss of property from a government law regulation. And ... and so they were saying that you know that not only is it not only has been shown to be unsuccessful and costly in two other states. Or not you know in terms of Arizona wasn't as much costly is it just basically now zoning easement is pretty much just granted regardless because they don't want a lawsuits. So that the government has even less ability to kind of regulate how a city plan a city is planned. And that think about that long term consequences. But amednment seventy four doesn't have public safety health- health and safety ... restrictions. So go libertarian Colorado there.

ERIK: Yeah. So   what this feels like to me is one of those feel good sort of things that shows up on a ballot. And when you   read it in a little box the short version of it you might say, oh Hey yeah I'm all for that. I'm a property owner. This could benefit me some day.

AICILA: Yeah.

ERIK: But the reality is ... when you get in deeper it may not be as positive.

AICILA: That's what it looks like. And and I've been reading this is the article that I found that was in the Daily Camera however there- and I'll I'll put it in the show notes. However there were several different articles talking about the ways in which not only is it concerning. However it's it's the the two places that has been implemented with more restrictions ended up being very expensive. And and the Oregon ended up repealing it.

ERIK: Yeah. And well that actually brings me to my point. Which being election season and the show releasing a few days before the election ... just how important it is to maybe spend some time and read your voters guide for your local area. Understand what's actually on the ballot ... and most importantly make sure you vote. I mean this is a small amount of civic responsibility that I feel like we all have and sometimes we take for granted. And I'm just gonna sound like that guy that sits around and says you know it's your power and if you don't use it you don't you deserve to have it or whatever but it's really more than that. You know  I these sorts of local bills and local things affect us way more than who's president in the long term. And we should pay attention to it. We should get out. And we should vote. And you know what's coming up in a few days so if you haven't voted I would suggest double check what's on the ballot this year and .... try to make an educated decision when the time comes to fill in the little bubble.

AICILA: Seconded. So thanks for listening. If you have ideas, feedback, thoughts please find us on social media. BiCurean  on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Or you can always give us a call at 720-507-7309 or email us at podcast at BiCurean  dot com. Thanks for listening. And if you like listening to us, please consider giving us a review on your platform of choice. That is a way that really helps us to go up in the noticeability.

ERIK: Yes. Thanks for listening. Have a great week.