News

• Jim and I are doing the second annual Gingerbread Challenge in Walt Disney World, starting Friday December 2, 2022.  
  
• Also, we’re looking at March 30-April 1, 2023 for our group cruise on the Starcruiser Halcyon. That’s a Thursday check-in and a Saturday check-out, which is also, somehow appropriately, April Fool’s Day.  
  

https://storybookdestinations.com/DisneyDish/

https://touringplans.com/starwars2023

• Bob Chapek contract extended 3 years.  He was over at EPCOT earlier this week, too, and Jim, I’ve started hearing rumors that Bob and team might be looking at domestic park projects in the near future.  Some of this has to do with not having anything in the pipeline, right?  And some of it has to do with a response to Epic Universe, maybe?
  
• Bibbity Bobbity Boutique is re-opening August 25 in both Walt Disney World and Disneyland, and the Harmony Barber Shop is re-opening July 31 in the Magic Kingdom.  Jim, it’s not a coincidence that these re-openings come after the wide availability of COVID vaccines to children under age 5, and that’s great news.  Also, I have a haircut appointment at the barber shop on August 4, much to the relief of Laurel, my wife.  My last haircut was March 16, 2020, so almost 2 ½ years ago.
  
• Our friends over at WDWMagic.com report that Hollywood Studios will NOT bring back their Christmas holiday show Jingle Bell, Jingle BAM!   While the show had been suspended, recent speculation is, Jim, that the Studios will be bringing back Fantasmic! During the second half of 2022, and Disney wants the focus to be on that.
  
• WDWMagic is also reporting that Disney’s considering expanding the park reservation system to require reservations to park-hop.  The advantage there would be removing the current 2 pm start time for park hopping, while the downside would be that some guests will need to make multiple park reservations per day.
  
  That’s surprising because, as anyone who’s listened to this show recently knows, Disney’s sending out very specific surveys asking guests about the park reservation system.  In fact, our friend Sandy just sent in this sample question from a survey earlier this week, about annual passes and reservations:
  
  
  

And we got this email from our friend Lenon:

We just completed an 8 day trip and I personally saw someone get turned away from Epcot. We were entering the park and a woman was walking from the box office back to their group telling them they couldn’t get in. All I could do was wonder if they had tickets already, and hope they didn’t pay for parking to get in.

I’m pretty sure that regular guests feel the same way about the reservation system.

Jim, is this the case where Disney’s just getting so much economic benefit from staffing efficiencies with the reservation system, that terrible survey results just don’t matter?

• Brightline Train Service to Disney Springs has been canceled.  This would have connected Tampa, Orlando, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, and Miami.  But Disney Springs was always an odd spot for a station, because guests coming from Orlando International Airport would still have needed a car or bus to get from Disney Springs to their Disney hotel.  It’s the “last mile” problem that’s common in any sort of network-based infrastructure.
  
  I mean, Disney could’ve stationed buses at the Brightline station at whatever time the train was supposed to arrive each day, to take passengers from Disney Springs to their Disney hotels.  But that’s a whole bunch of added expense, and Disney probably looked at that and said “Why do we want to re-create Magical Express?”  And it’s unlikely that, even if Disney were to charge for the service, that enough people would be willing to pay for both Brightline train AND Disney bus service to get to their resort - a car service is cheaper and faster, even if it’s worse for traffic and the environment.  So it’ll be interesting to see what Brightline does here.  And I say that as someone who’s taking Amtrak to Miami this weekend.
  
  

And Jim, before we move on to surveys and listener questions, you wanted to correct something we said on last week’s show at Saratoga Springs, right?

Slight correction

We were over in Saratoga Springs & Spa last week. And I mentioned that – in the lobby of this DVC property (which is in the Carriage House, by the way. Which just got redo last year and re-opened in October of 2021) -- there are these giant paintings of Disney horses.

I then mentioned that one of the horses on display there was a huge black & white stallion that Judge Claude Frollo rode in Disney’s “Hunchback of Notre Dame.” And that the animators – as an inside joke –named Judge Claude Frollo’s horse Snowball.

More to the point, the Disney animators so enjoyed this in-joke that they kept it going for a few more films. As in: Whenever the villain of that particular animated feature had a horse, the animators named him Snowball.

This was the case in Disney’s “Mulan.” The horse that Shan Yu rode on as he led the Hun charge was called Snowball. This was also true – for a time, anyway – when it came to Disney’s “Pocahontas.” Governor Ratcliffe’s original entrance in that film had him riding up to the dock where the “Susan Constant” (that’s the ship the colonists took over to the New World) atop a horse that looked as pompous as he did. And that horse too was called Snowball.

Eventually this scene was rewritten & restaged. Largely because Governor Ratcliffe was supposed to be a member of King James’ court. And a titled personage like Ratcliffe wouldn’t have ridden his own horse. He’d have been driven to the docks in a carriage. So that’s what you see today in “Pocahontas.” Which is why the version of Snowball you were supposed to see in that Disney animated feature wound up hitting the cutting room floor.

Anyway … So that story was true. But I got the set-up for that story wrong.

To explain: The big black horse in that painting that I mentioned which was on display in the Carriage House at Disney’s Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa wasn’t Snowball from Disney’s “Hunchback of Notre Dame.” It was Angus, the horse that Princess Merida rides in Pixar’s “Brave.”

The other horse on display in this space (which serves as the Welcome Center for DVC members as they check into Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa) are:

    • Phillipe from “Beauty and the Beast”

    • Maximus from “Tangled”

    • Baby Pegasus from “Hercules”

As I mentioned earlier, we then have Angus from Pixar’s “Brave.” But then the Imagineer’s choices for Disney horses to put on display get kind of obscure. We get:

    • Frou-Frou from “The Aristocats”

    • and Destiny from Disney’s “Enchanted”

I’m told that Destiny (She’s the horse that James Marsden’s Prince Edward character rode in that animated / live-action film) was included because the Company had just greenlit “Enchanted” ‘s long-delayed sequel back in December of 2020 (Just as the Imagineer’s plans for the redo of the Carriage House at the Saratoga Springs Resort & Spa were being finalized). And this was thought to be a fun bit of synergy.

Just so you know: The sequel to “Enchanted” – “Disenchanted” – debuts Disney+ later this year on November 24th.

Surveys

Two different listeners, Kathy and Ken, also got dining surveys related to their visit to the Grand Floridian Cafe.  

Jim, remember we read a similar survey from Phil a couple weeks ago, also from the Grand Flo Cafe.  I originally thought that Disney was sending out surveys for all of its sit-down resort restaurants.  But we’ve got three from the Grand Flo, and nothing from any other restaurant, so now I’m thinking that Disney’s sending out these surveys because they’re going to change the Grand Flo Cafe … somehow.  What do you think?

Our friend Laura just got back from a Disney Cruise, and her post-trip survey included this question I’ve never seen before:

Listener Questions

From Josh:

When is Disney going to sell annual passes again?  We have a trip in February and another in October.  Being DVC members the sorcerer pass makes a lot of sense and saves us money but I don’t know if that option will be available to us before then.

Len: Disney briefly displayed APs for sale on the website this week, but guests got an error message when trying to pay for them.  Disney later said that the offer itself was an error and should not have happened.

I don’t think we’ll see AP sales earlier than mid-August, at least. If we do, it’ll be because future bookings are down significantly and Disney thinks it’ll need more people in the parks.

Christina:

Maelstrom to Frozen Ever After

Kind of appropriate that we’re talking about a water-based attraction today. Because the very first structure that was built on the site where Epcot’s Norway pavilion stands today were the standalone bathrooms that were deliberately positioned between World Showcase’s Mexico pavilion and the China pavilion.

Mind you, this standalone bathrooms (which opened with the rest of EPCOT Center back in October of 1982) were supposed to have been part of that theme park’s Scandanavian pavilion (which was to have celebrated Denmark, Norway & Sweden, not just Norway. But Disney’s deal with ScanShow (the corporation that had been set up with representatives from all three of these Scandanavian countries to then underwrite the cost of building this new pavilion. Which would then open as part of World Showcase’s Phase Two) fell through shortly before that theme park opened to the public. So the Imagineers were then stuck with this Scandavanian-themed standalone bathrooms along the Eastern shore of World Showcase Lagoon.

So the order then came down to find a sponsor for a new World Showcase that would then (hopefully) match thosee Scandanavian-themed standalone bathrooms that the Imagineers had already built.

Mind you, the pressure was really on at this point for WDI to sign someone who’d then be willing to build a pavilion which then featured a ride. Because that was one of the main complaints that the Guests had about EPCOT Center in its first few years of operation. That it didn’t have nearly enough rides.

And this got doubly concerning as 1982 gave way to 1983 and the Company – even though it had actually built the show building at the Japanese pavilion that was supposed to house EPCOT Center’s previously announced “Meet the World” (A Carousel of Progress-like presentation that was supposed to illustrate the history of Japan. A version of this show opened at Tokyo Disneyland in April of 1983 and eventually closed in June of 2002. To then be replaced by that theme park’s “Monsters Inc. Ride & Go Seek” attraction) …

Anyway, EPCOT Center’s “Meet the World” show got cancelled. As was this theme park’s previously announced “Rhine River Ride,” that was supposed to be a key component of the expansion of World Showcase’s Germany pavilion. In the end, the only thing that wound up being added to this side of the Park as Part of EPCOT Center’s Phase 2 was the Morocco pavilion. Which opened on September 7, 1984. And was lovely to look at – thanks to the King of Morocco sending artisans from his country over to the United States to install all of the tilework on display at this new World Showcase pavilion.  

Unfortunately, the Morocco Pavilion had no ride either. But – of course – just one month later, Walt Disney Productions underwent a management change. Ron Miller was out as head of the Mouse House and Michael Eisner was in. And one of Michael’s top priorities was fixing EPCOT Center.

So now the pressure was really on at Imagineering to please their new boss. And – again – they already had these free-standing bathrooms between the Mexico pavilion and the China pavilion. Which – again – were supposed to have been the anchor for a Scandanavian-themed pavilion that got cancelled at the last minute.

So the pressure was now on to … Well, not throw good money after bad. EPCOT Center had this set of Scandanavian-themed standalone bathrooms. So the search was now on to find a sponsor for a new World Showcase pavilion that would hopefully tie with the theme of those already-built bathrooms.

So at a moment like this, especially when you’ve got a new boss that you’re looking to impress, you don’t reinvent the wheel. What Marty Sklar & Randy Bright (the then-heads of WDI’s creative side decided to do) was reach out to representatives in Norway, Sweden & Denmark (These were the three countries that were previously going to co-sponsor Epcot’s Scandavanian-themed pavilion) to see if any of them was now interested in underwrite the cost of a solo pavilion. One that ideally would feature a ride.

And as it turned out, the Norway portion of the ScanShow team (This was made up of Norwegian corporations like:

    • Norsk Data

    • Norway Foods

    • Den norske Creditbank,

    • the Vesta Group

    • and VARD)

were interesting in revisiting the idea of sponsoring a pavilion at EPCOT Center. Only this time, they wanted this pavilion to solely celebrate the nation of Norway.

So this negotiation (which began in the Spring of 1985) moved along at lightning speed. By December of that same year, the formal contracts for this new World Showcase pavilion had been signed. The newly constituted corporation NorShow (That name stood for Norwegian Showcase and served the replacement for ScanShow. Which had been the corporation that was supposed to have sponsored EPCOT Center’s now-cancelled Scandanavian pavilion) agreed to put up $30 million to help fund the construction of a Norway pavilion along the shores of World Showcase Lagoon.

Not so coincidentally, this new World Showcase pavilion would be built all around those pre-existing Scandanavian-themed stand-alone bathrooms.

FYI: $2 million worth of that $30 million NorShow was putting up came straight from the Norwegian government. And the Walt Disney Company agreed to pick up the cost of whatever it took beyond that initial $30 million to complete construction of EPCOT Center’s Norway pavilion.

But there was a method to Disney’s madness. At this point, the execs running EPCOT Center were already aware of the $500,000 in Figment plush that this theme park was selling on an annual basis. So the thinking was … Well, remember that – after Eisner arrived at Disney in October of 1984 – the whole point of pursuing a new pavilion for World Showcase was because EPCOT Center didn’t have nearly the number of rides, shows & attractions that could be found just a few miles away at WDW’s Magic Kingdom.

So that was how the Imagineers went into the design-a-ride-for-Norway project. This time around, they were going to deliberately build a ride that wasn’t educational. That was cute and fun. More importantly, that would then feature a very marketable character like Figment. Which Guests could then purchase in the post-show gift shop.

And since the folklore of Norway was filled with tales of trolls … Well, that’s what the Imagineers decided to do. Build a ride for EPCOT Center that would take Guests past all sorts of show scenes filled with colorful, cute trolls.

And since it was crucial to get this attraction open as quickly as possible (And remember that – this time around – the Imagineers weren’t looking to reinvent the wheel), they decided to use one of the Magic Kingdom’s most popular attractions, “Pirates of the Caribbean,” as their inspiration. Only this time around, instead of going down the waterfall at the beginning of the attraction, they’d invert the formula. Saving the plunge down the waterfall for this Troll-themed ride’s exciting conclusion.

So okay. Joe Rohde (who was then only 5 years into what would eventually become his 30-year career at Walt Disney Imagineering) designed the show scenes for this Troll ride. And because a number of the very Disney theme park rides feature music by the Sherman Brothers, Marty & Randy reached out to Richard M & Robert B Sherman. Who came in for a meeting at WDI and were shown the models for the Troll ride.

This was the concept for the Trolls ride that the Sherman Brothers were pitched:

Guests would travel in Viking ships past fantastical scenes featuring Norwegian gnomes & trolls. But just before their vessel was to travel over the rainbow bridge and then enter Vallhalla, they’d then magically be sent backwards over the falls to then return the human realm.

The Sherman Brothers then went off to write what I am sure would have been a very charming earworm of a theme song for this World Showcase attraction.

So what happened to that song? Or – for that matter – the cute little Troll ride for the Norway pavilion that was supposed to have convinced EPCOT Center visitor to buy a troll plush as they exited through that attraction’s post-show gift shop.

Well, a day or so after the Sherman Brothers got to see the model for the Troll ride, the representatives from NorShow (which – again – was that consortium of Norwegian corporations that then came together to underwrite the construction of this new World Showcase pavilion) flew into LA and then came by WDI to check on the progress that was being made on EPCOT Center’s Norway pavilion. And to say that they were displeased with this troll ride would be an understatement.

The Imagineers’ initial response was “Well, you knew that we wanted to include a ride as part of this new pavilion for World Showcase. And we did mention that we were building it around Norwegian folklore. Especially the tales involving trolls.” And the folks from NorShow then said “Well, yes. You did say that. But we didn’t think that the ride would feature this many trolls. You make it look as though Norway was overrun with trolls. We’re a modern country, you know.”

Marty Sklar once told me about this meeting. Where he was seated across from some very jet-lagged, very unhappy Norwegians. And he sensed that the funding for World Showcase’s next pavilion was slipping right through his fingers.

So Marty then chimed in. “Well, it’s only a model. And if you’re not happy … Well, we can obviously incorporate some changes. What would you folks like to see in a ride at the Norway pavilion?”

And as he went around the table getting suggestions for changes to the ride from the folks at NorShow (who – again, remember – wanted Norway to be seen as a modern country), Marty wrote down words like:

    • An oil rig

    • Fishing

    • A fjord

    • Polar bears

    • & puffins

And then – because they didn’t want to insult their host at Disney – the folks from NorShow then conceded that the ride for EPCOT Center’s Norway pavilion could have a few trolls. And a couple of Vikings. But only a few because – again – Norway was a modern country.

So the folks from NorShow head back to their hotel. And then Marty takes his notes back to the Trolls ride creative team. And they realize that what the NorShow folks want is a travelogue. Not an attraction. Which means that 75% of what they’ve already decided for the ride at the Norway pavilion (which is supposed to break ground in just a few months. May 1986, to be exact) has to now get tossed out the window.

So what happens next? How does EPCOT’s troll ride become “SeaVenture” (That was the original name of “Maelstrom,” by the way. In fact, when the Norway pavilion officially opened in June of 1998, the marquee over the entrance of “Maelstrom” still had the “SeaVenture” name in place)? We’ll get to that on the next episode of Disney Dish.

BCX      

Flying Saucer BCX Feature

Part 3 of 3