Dara M Wilson:

Hi. I'm Dara M Wilson.

Yasmine Khan:

And I'm Yasmine Khan.

Dara M Wilson:

And this is Money Ha Ha.

Yasmine Khan:

Money Ha Ha.

Dara M Wilson:

Money Ha Ha.

Yasmine Khan:

Money Money Money Ha Ha.

Dara M Wilson:

That's just different. That's just not the name of it.

Yasmine Khan:

I don't understand what you want from me. Yeah. Welcome to our world, guys.

Yasmine Khan:

This is the podcast where smart, funny friends bring money talk out of the shame drawer and onto the table.

Dara M Wilson:

Each week we discuss one of those money topics that pretty much everyone struggles with, but nobody feels comfortable talking about.

Dara M Wilson:

And this week-

Yasmine Khan:

It's a very special episode.

Dara M Wilson:

It is a very special episode. We have a guest and I'm going to be super official and read this guest's bio because it is impressive, but I'm going to leave her name for the end.

Yasmine Khan:

Okay.

Dara M Wilson:

This guest is a trust and tax attorney with a law practice in downtown Philadelphia and a law professor at Villanova Law School. She concentrates her research on the intersection of race, gender, and the accumulation of wealth. Her most recent book, Mind Your Business, is a roadmap of strategies and techniques for preserving wealth for women and people of color. Her name is Sharon Wilson and she is my mother.

Sharon Wilson:

Hello, everyone.

Yasmine Khan:

It's so very nice to meet you.

Dara M Wilson:

Hello.

Sharon Wilson:

Oh, it is so nice to be here today.

Dara M Wilson:

I don't think we've ever done anything like this before.

Sharon Wilson:

No, we haven't.

Dara M Wilson:

I don't even think I've performed in front of you. Well, at Sketchfest maybe, a couple years ago.

Sharon Wilson:

Well, I guess if high school doesn't count, I did write the play you two were in and I did-

Dara M Wilson:

My goodness. Already being taken to task. Are we 30 seconds in? Yes. My mother is a multi-talented person. I was really nervous about, what is it called?

Sharon Wilson:

Nepotism.

Dara M Wilson:

Yes. And I was like, "But everybody going to think I just got this role because you wrote it."

Dara M Wilson:

And she was like, "So."

Dara M Wilson:

And then I did it.

Yasmine Khan:

Oh, you mean for the high school play, you were worried about nepotism?

Dara M Wilson:

Yes.

Yasmine Khan:

Well, you know what? It is what it is.

Dara M Wilson:

It's not that I was not talented.

Yasmine Khan:

You got a lot of things from your mother including, for the listeners at home, your great cheekbones, which I am now seeing. This is the source, right here in the room with me now. It is impressive.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh, my whole body just lit up with that compliment. Thank you so much.

Yasmine Khan:

Thank your mother.

Sharon Wilson:

Oh yes, can you feel the dimples out there?

Yasmine Khan:

Yes.

Dara M Wilson:

Are the dimples coming through?

Yasmine Khan:

You do. The dimples, I see four dimples. They are matching and adorable. I feel like in the warm embrace of a super mama daughter team.

Dara M Wilson:

How is everyone doing? I feel great. I got cheekbone compliments. I'm going to ride on that for rest of the week.

Dara M Wilson:

Yasmine, how are you doing?

Yasmine Khan:

I'm pretty good. I got a nap in today. I'm like lording over you like, "Ha, ha, ha. I have energy. What you going to do about it?"

Dara M Wilson:

I'm going to match you. I'm going to rise to the occasion.

Yasmine Khan:

Oh yeah. Fine. So, show me.

Dara M Wilson:

Right now?

Yasmine Khan:

You see how quickly your daughter just folded on me? Just like, [inaudible 00:03:19].

Sharon Wilson:

Yes, she's energy efficient.

Dara M Wilson:

I am. That's right. I use it when I need it.

Yasmine Khan:

I love that. I want my mama to come in and re-spin all of my statements for me, from my mom.

Dara M Wilson:

Mommy, how are you doing?

Sharon Wilson:

I'm doing well. Thank you. I'm really happy to be here.

Dara M Wilson:

What has been happening in your day today?

Sharon Wilson:

I actually packed my clothes and I moved two blocks from one hotel that was paid for me to another hotel that I have to pay for myself.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh. I feel like somehow this is going to come back and bite me. Like, some people are going to be like, "Why are you making your mama stay at a hotel? Why can't she stay with you?"

Sharon Wilson:

Yes, so the guests should know that if you appear on Money Ha Ha, they do not pay for your hotel.

Yasmine Khan:

Welcome to Oakland.

Dara M Wilson:

Wow. Wow. How? And you know what? And I suggested this.

Yasmine Khan:

This is a show about money, and being real with money, and she's just bringing what we asked for.

Dara M Wilson:

She's just being real. It's true. I said, "Oh, my mother is going to be in town. She should be on the show."

Dara M Wilson:

So, this is a nightmare of my own creation.

Sharon Wilson:

Not at all. Not at all. This is going to be a great time.

Dara M Wilson:

Okay.

Yasmine Khan:

We're two minutes in. You cannot go to nightmare at this moment.

Dara M Wilson:

I can see the future. No, it's fine. This is going to be great. Don't swallow your laughs, mother. Let everyone know how much you're enjoying it.

Sharon Wilson:

Oh my god. I can't. I'd just be laughing continuously. Guys, out there, this is so much fun and I haven't even got started yet.

Yasmine Khan:

Well, let's get started then.

Sharon Wilson:

All right.

Yasmine Khan:

This week we're going to talk about things we wish we knew when we were younger.

Yasmine Khan:

There's a lot I wish I knew when I was younger.

Dara M Wilson:

So, the first thing that we will do in this main section, because we're still trying out these segments and I like it. I like it.

Dara M Wilson:

We're in the no judgment zone.

Yasmine Khan:

So, we're not judging Dara's mom. I don't even feel like that's an option.

Dara M Wilson:

An option? No.

Sharon Wilson:

Well, I'm so happy to hear that because, in a addition to what we're going to talk about in terms of what I would wish I had known about money, I don't have to tell you that no matter what anybody says to you, those wide legged bell bottoms, bad, bad.

Sharon Wilson:

I wish somebody had told me when I was 20. I saw those pictures and I couldn't believe it. Nobody even told me. It's not a good look.

Dara M Wilson:

That is false. That is false. I've seen the pictures and the pants are making a comeback. Isn't wide leg about to happen?

Yasmine Khan:

Yeah because it does a thing where it creates a bell. You know, like an hourglass, it's just giving you a second hourglass where your knees are like another cinch.

Sharon Wilson:

The people around you won't tell you. That's not a good look.

Dara M Wilson:

Okay. Okay. All right. Now that we are in the no judgment zone, we'll start with Yasmine.

Yasmine Khan:

Okay.

Dara M Wilson:

What's your thing you wish you knew when you were younger? And we are not going to judge you.

Yasmine Khan:

It's a very simple thing. It's a very basic thing, but basically it took me a long time to learn that I should think beyond this week. I should think beyond this month and make sure that I'm not spending more money than I have.

Yasmine Khan:

It sounds simple. It's really simple, but it's one of those things where it just happens. Every month you're like, "Why do I have no money left?"

Yasmine Khan:

And sometimes it was because I just wasn't making enough.

Dara M Wilson:

Is there a specific instance of you spending what you didn't have that you can remember?

Yasmine Khan:

It gets complicated with credit cards because you just put something on a credit card and then before you know it your credit card is just so fricking big and you're just like, "What? How did that happen?"

Dara M Wilson:

It gets to laughing point.

Yasmine Khan:

Oh yeah. I got married about three years ago and there were all these little things that I was like... I didn't want to have an expensive wedding. We had this really tiny budget and literally people, I will tell you, the budget that we had started with multiplied to 16 times what we started as.

Dara M Wilson:

So when you say advice for when you were younger, you mean three years ago?

Yasmine Khan:

I was just connecting the dots between like, you know what, I'm still not doing it so well. I'm doing my best. I'm learning. It's getting better, but what ended up happening was, I was like, "Yeah. Oh, this little thing, it's my wedding day. I think I will just have these earrings." Put it on my credit card.

Yasmine Khan:

"Oh it's my wedding day. I think I do want to get hair extensions." Put it on my credit card.

Yasmine Khan:

And because with all the wedding stuff happening, there was so many, like people coming into town, and making sure everyone was taken care of, and fed, and all those things. I just wasn't paying as much attention and before I knew it, I looked down at my balance and I was like, "Oh."

Dara M Wilson:

Oh no.

Yasmine Khan:

And so, I will say, I learned the lesson when I was younger and then I had to relearn it right when I got married, as a nice little, "Oh you think you're grown up because you're getting married? Check yourself. You just slid back."

Yasmine Khan:

What about you? The no judgment zone is wide open. The no judgment zone has plenty of space for company. Come join me in the no judgment zone, Dara. Tell me about some things you wish you knew when you were younger.

Dara M Wilson:

Okay. I'm in the zone. I'm in the zone and I'm feeling it. The zone is a little spicy. Do you also feel that? Like I feel like there's some heat in here, like some cayenne or something.

Yasmine Khan:

Is it because your mom is sitting right across from you staring?

Dara M Wilson:

I am sweating.

Sharon Wilson:

I am not a deliverer of heat.

Dara M Wilson:

Okay.

Sharon Wilson:

I'm real chill on this side of the room.

Yasmine Khan:

I believe her. I've known her for 10 minutes and I believe her.

Dara M Wilson:

Okay. Gosh, I think the advice that I would give to my younger self is to feel better about where I was. I think I was making a lot of comparisons to what my peers were doing and feeling like I wasn't quite stacking up to where other people were in life.

Dara M Wilson:

There were a lot of expectations around a big, fancy job that I might get. Right out of college that didn't happen and my life didn't end. It wasn't the worst thing in the world and I had my own path.

Dara M Wilson:

And that was true for my finances as well. My splurges used to be headbands. This was back when there was a Forever 21 at the bottom of Powell Street. I would go and get a headband every Saturday.

Sharon Wilson:

Wow.

Dara M Wilson:

But an expensive headband would be like $12 and that was my splurge. And I wore them every day until one of the cable car operators was like, "Oh, hey, you're not wearing your headband today."

Dara M Wilson:

And I do not like to be known in real life and I was like, "I'm never taking the cable car again and I'm never wearing a headband again. And this is over now."

Sharon Wilson:

I should have just talked to those cable car people. They could have probably made you do a lot of things if I had known that you took all your direction from the cable car people.

Dara M Wilson:

I take my direction by practicing avoidance. That's what that was.

Yasmine Khan:

She takes exactly one direction and then she leaves.

Dara M Wilson:

Yes.

Yasmine Khan:

So you would [inaudible] by multiple people throughout the city to plant in her view because after she quits the cable car, you got to find the bus driver.

Dara M Wilson:

That's right.

Yasmine Khan:

And then the BART train driver. It's work.

Sharon Wilson:

It's work.

Dara M Wilson:

It's work.

Sharon Wilson:

If I was thinking about what I knew or what I wish somebody told me-

Yasmine Khan:

Yeah. Come join us in the no judgment zone.

Sharon Wilson:

Okay. Don't judge me, but that whole money, and living paycheck to paycheck, and not feeling like you have a lot of money, it can really put you in a dark place. And, so I think I responded to that place by sacrifice, giving up stuff, reducing. But that is not the answer, so I wish in my 20's I knew what I'm here today to tell every one in the audience.

Yasmine Khan:

Tell us.

Sharon Wilson:

That it's not about giving up your Starbucks. That it's not about not going to brunch.

Dara M Wilson:

Did you have avocado toast in your 20's? Was that a thing?

Sharon Wilson:

Eat your damn avocado toast. You can do that. Life is not about coupons and ramen noodles. You don't have to live that life.

Dara M Wilson:

So how do we get away from that feeling? We talk about that a lot, like the scarcity mindset and sometimes the bad decisions that it makes you make. How can you get away from that when you are truly living paycheck to paycheck?

Sharon Wilson:

Well, this is the thing. The one thing that you have to do and I totally stole this from Ava DuVernay, who's the filmmaker, but the one thing you have to do is to take off what she called, your coat of desperation because it stinks. And people smell you coming. Take it off.

Sharon Wilson:

She was talking about desperation in the context of being a filmmaker, and I've sort of tried to give that message to my audiences before and people just want to punch me in the mouth. I'm on radio land. You can't get me. She's just better at articulating that message than I am, so I'm going to talk to you about that the way that she sort of talked to me about it.

Dara M Wilson:

Okay. Then it sounds like we need to move into our next segment, which I will let Yasmine sing for us.

Yasmine Khan:

(singing).

Dara M Wilson:

Every time. Every time. Facts see is going to get me. What can the facts see?

Yasmine Khan:

That facts be, that sounds like a thing that is not... I don't know what rhymes with facts.

Dara M Wilson:

Okay. Well, we'll workshop it later. Let's take it offline.

Yasmine Khan:

Okay.

Dara M Wilson:

So, now we are in the section of the podcast where we are laying down the facts.

Sharon Wilson:

Laying down the facts.

Dara M Wilson:

Listen to that radio voice that she's got. It's so great.

Yasmine Khan:

Let's go for it. Yeah. Lay down the facts.

Sharon Wilson:

Lay down the facts? Okay. I'm going to tell you what your friends won't tell you. When you come around them, when you talking about all the money that you don't have, your friends say, "Oh, god. Here she comes again." Or, "Here he comes again."

Sharon Wilson:

And what you're talking about is the money you don't have and how it's your responsibility to, maybe in a addition to that, take care of mom, or grandmom, or dad, or the dog, or the cat, or the hamster, or whoever, or whatever.

Sharon Wilson:

And what you have to do, according to Miss DuVernay, is throw off your coat of desperation. And the way that you can tell if you're one of those people, who is wearing that coat, is that you spend more time talking about what you don't have than what you do have.

Sharon Wilson:

Yasmine, I think you should repeat that again, maybe even sing it.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh my god. Why?

Yasmine Khan:

Spend more time talking about what you don't have.

Yasmine Khan:

No, no, no, no. Back it up. Back it up. Back it up. Why are you guys trying to sabotage me?

Dara M Wilson:

It's because we're in church all of a sudden.

Yasmine Khan:

Spend more time-

Sharon Wilson:

That's right. (singing).

Yasmine Khan:

I will respond to the call, she said.

Yasmine Khan:

Spend more time talking about what you do have than what you don't have.

Sharon Wilson:

There you go.

Yasmine Khan:

I think it's starting to clarify for me because when you first said, "Take off this coat of desperation," my question was, "How do you know if it's a coat of desperation or just a sensible winter coat?"

Dara M Wilson:

Right. Like, "This coat is the only thing between me and world, and I need it."

Sharon Wilson:

And I need this coat.

Yasmine Khan:

This coat is the only thing between me and extreme credit card debt.

Dara M Wilson:

Right.

Sharon Wilson:

Because when you put it on and you come walking toward your friends, they get up and run. That's how you know.

Sharon Wilson:

They disappear.

Yasmine Khan:

If I do go for brunch every weekend and it's starting to make me go further and further in debt, what are your thoughts on that?

Sharon Wilson:

My thoughts are, I don't want you to be occupied by your brunch, or your coffee, or your avocado toast. What I want you to be occupied by is your passion.

Sharon Wilson:

See, desperation repels people. That's why your friends run when they see you coming. And I know some of you out there know what I'm talking about. People run when they see you coming, but passion is like a magnet. It attracts people. So, when you come and you begin that conversation, talking about what you don't have and how you wish you had more, people will run.

Sharon Wilson:

But if you were, for example, to talk about something that's a passion of yours, if you were, for example, Dara, to say, "You know, a lot of us are living paycheck to paycheck. We have some financial difficulties. How about, I throw an event, we all come together, and the only thing we're allowed to talk about are our accomplishments. That's what we'll do."

Sharon Wilson:

And you know what your friends will say? "Thank god she's not talking about not having any money anymore." But they'll also say, "Let me help you with that."

Dara M Wilson:

But why did I have to be the one who was in the example?

Sharon Wilson:

Well, because I didn't want you to feel left out. I used that as-

Dara M Wilson:

Oh my god.

Sharon Wilson:

She sang, you know.

Dara M Wilson:

You are not saying to totally disregard financial wellbeing and making smart decisions about your money?

Sharon Wilson:

No, I'm not saying that at all, but what I am saying is one of the things I want you to do is to think about and recapture that dream that you had before lack of money became the focus of your life.

Sharon Wilson:

And I want you to think about... And this is the hard thing because changing mindset isn't an easy thing. And that financial hardship is a real thing. I don't want you to think that I'm belittling that.

Sharon Wilson:

But what I want you to think about doing is to make a list of what you do have. So, for example, if you want to build houses, maybe you have a couple of friends who have a brick. Okay. If you haven't chased all your friends away, maybe they'll give you the bricks and then you can start to build your houses.

Sharon Wilson:

See, you have stuff. Your friends have stuff. They know stuff and they know people who know stuff. And they know people who have stuff, so take their stuff, put it with your stuff and let's make some big stuff.

Dara M Wilson:

So, it really is about looking at your life as you being a part of a community and there being shared assets in that community.

Sharon Wilson:

Exactly. And that review, that look, that list, that doesn't cost a dime. You have spent no money. All you did was figure out, what do I have to do? And now, with just making that list, you know what you've done? You got started.

Yasmine Khan:

I like this because I think what we were talking about is sort of like, what is some spiritual wealth that you can start to accumulate so that your actual physical wealth-

Sharon Wilson:

Gets better.

Yasmine Khan:

Doesn't just tie you down.

Dara M Wilson:

Right.

Sharon Wilson:

Wow. That's deep.

Yasmine Khan:

I mean, I have some moments, but you laid the ground for that.

Sharon Wilson:

I like that.

Dara M Wilson:

So, as we're talking about this concept, is there, Mother, a time in your life or a story of somebody that you know where this was put into action? What does this look like in real life?

Sharon Wilson:

Well, I can give you the example of Ava DuVernay, herself. She admitted she wore that coat of desperation and she chased her friends away because she was complaining, "I can't make a film because I don't have this and I don't have that."

Sharon Wilson:

And what she did was look around to see, "Okay, what do I have?"

Sharon Wilson:

But I can also tell you about examples from my own life. There have been times I can remember when the student loan used to come in the mail every week.

Dara M Wilson:

Every week?

Sharon Wilson:

I mean every month. I'm sorry. It wasn't that bad.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh geez.

Sharon Wilson:

But I don't know if the student loan coupon comes in the mail the way it used to. I think you have an affirmative obligation to go pay your student loan these days, but it would come in the mail.

Sharon Wilson:

And one month that student loan came in the mail and I looked at that coupon-

Dara M Wilson:

Coupon?

Sharon Wilson:

It was a coupon. It would be a little coupon. It was part of a coupon booklet and they would tear one off and stuff.

Yasmine Khan:

I think coupon to you means a different thing than it means to us.

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah, coupon-

Sharon Wilson:

Oh, I'm sorry. It's like a little invoice. How about that?

Dara M Wilson:

Okay.

Yasmine Khan:

Yes.

Sharon Wilson:

And invoice would come and it came one month and I looked at my back account and I had no money. I mean, I had like a couple of dollars. And it was not a couple of dollars.

Sharon Wilson:

And you know how you do that thing where you go to that place and you get the money that you have under the couch or in the chair. I went to all of those places. I didn't have no money in any of those places. And I said, "This is a bad situation."

Sharon Wilson:

But you know what? What helped me during that time period is I wanted financial stability. It was one of my dreams. Then, I could have deferred my student loan, but I didn't want to get my Social Security and pay my student loan at the same time.

Sharon Wilson:

And that's what happens to people. When you defer that student loan it just becomes a bill that you put off and put off and you are an old person paying off that student loan.

Yasmine Khan:

It gets bigger and bigger.

Sharon Wilson:

It gets bigger and bigger. It just doesn't go away and the people who give you the loan, they don't tell you that. They just say, "Defer it. It's okay. Delay it." And it's like a leprechaun comes and just takes it away, but that's not real.

Yasmine Khan:

I would like to meet that leprechaun. I am terrified of leprechauns, but I will make a concession for the student loan.

Dara M Wilson:

Are you terrified of leprechauns?

Yasmine Khan:

Have you seen the movie Leprechaun?

Dara M Wilson:

With Jennifer Aniston?

Yasmine Khan:

I just saw ads for it and I'm terrified.

Dara M Wilson:

Weak.

Yasmine Khan:

But I would like to meet that particular leprechaun. I would make a concession for the student loan leprechaun.

Dara M Wilson:

Okay. So, you do not want to defer your loans. You find yourself, you do not have any money, and you're trying to use this concept of the communal assets. So, what do you do?

Sharon Wilson:

So, I talked to people about what they were doing with their student loans, and how we can make it better and what are you all doing? And they gave me some tips about what to do. And so I did that.

Sharon Wilson:

Some of them asked me if I needed some money, but I said, "I might." But I didn't take it right at that moment. I said, "Let's see what I can do first. Let's see what else I have. Who else do I know? What else could I do?"

Sharon Wilson:

And that helped me. It was just that one month, but the feeling was so bad that I still remember it and I haven't had a student loan in quite some time.

Dara M Wilson:

Fortunately.

Sharon Wilson:

Fortunately.

Dara M Wilson:

Yep.

Sharon Wilson:

So, that's why I say, write down what you have and don't forget the gifts that aren't financial. So, if you've got the gift of gab, if you're a writer, if you jump double dutch better than anybody else in the sixth grade, whatever you have.

Dara M Wilson:

Was that directed at me?

Sharon Wilson:

Yes. That's you. You still got it.

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah. I don't.

Yasmine Khan:

I want to see this.

Sharon Wilson:

And it's really hard, but you have to remember that.

Sharon Wilson:

No, no. She was good.

Yasmine Khan:

No, I want to see it now. You said, "You still got it." I want to know.

Sharon Wilson:

Oh yeah, she got it. I'm not even worried about it.

Yasmine Khan:

I'm excited. I'm like so excited.

Sharon Wilson:

That $56 that you have in the bank, whatever you have, this is my list of assets. This is what I have and I want you to take that list and I want you to put right beside your dream. And I want you to say, "Okay. What can I do to get started?"

Sharon Wilson:

Then I want you to get started, get started, get started. I don't care how small the step is, but take that step because the other thing that you have right now is time.

Sharon Wilson:

But if you let time get away from you, having no money and no time, that's bad. That's when you're in trouble.

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah. You teased us about Ava DuVernay's story. What does she do to get started?

Sharon Wilson:

Well, actually, what she said she did-

Dara M Wilson:

And you believe her.

Sharon Wilson:

And I believe her.

Dara M Wilson:

Okay.

Sharon Wilson:

She seems like a good person that wouldn't tell me-

Yasmine Khan:

We believe women.

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah. That's right. That's right.

Sharon Wilson:

So, she went through the list of things she actually had. She said, "Well, I know a couple of friends. I know somebody that has a camera. I got a tiny bit of money, I do work. And I have a couple of friends that have a warehouse. And, by the way, I know this piece of land where nobody is looking at and so I'm just going to go over there and take a few scenes over there."

Sharon Wilson:

So, she cobbled together the assets that she had and she made her first movie.

Yasmine Khan:

She got scrappy.

Sharon Wilson:

She got scrappy.

Dara M Wilson:

She got scrappy.

Yasmine Khan:

I like it.

Sharon Wilson:

But see, the reason you got to get scrappy is because, you know that cycle we talking about? Paycheck to paycheck to paycheck to... Nobody is going to come and rescue you from that cycle.

Yasmine Khan:

You got to get scrappy to get happy.

Sharon Wilson:

You got to get scrappy. You got to rescue yourself.

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah. It can feel daunting, extremely daunting. And I hope that through these kinds of conversations that we are having, it can feel less so.

Dara M Wilson:

Before we move into our next section, Mom-

Sharon Wilson:

I love when you say that.

Dara M Wilson:

Mommy. You, I know, in your work and in your personal life, you're very passionate about building generational wealth, specifically in communities of color or in communities were it has been historically difficult to build that wealth.

Dara M Wilson:

First, how do you define generational wealth? And then, what are the mistakes that we're making so that we're not building it?

Sharon Wilson:

I think of generational wealth in its most simplest terms, it's the ability to accumulate wealth in one generation and when you die, have enough to pass something on to the next one. And that something that you pass on doesn't have to be millions and millions of dollars because far less than that can be impactful.

Sharon Wilson:

So, I would say, if I were really trying to build generational wealth, let's start with the low hanging fruit. Let's start with the small things. Make sure the deed on your property is correct.

Sharon Wilson:

So many people die without the deed being updated. It's in the grandmother's name. It's in the grandmother's grandmother's name. It's in the aunt's name. And then when it's time to pass that property on, it's not an easy thing. It's difficult.

Sharon Wilson:

So many people, especially women and people of color, are behind when it comes to making wills. Make a will. Draft a will. And it doesn't matter whether or not you have what you think is millions of dollars because, frankly, people who have millions of dollars, they can afford to make mistakes. If you don't, you can't because if you make a mistake then your children and their children will have nothing.

Sharon Wilson:

So, the wills, the deeds, the other things. When you have children, for example, and if your children don't all have the same two parents, then you have to make plans for that. You have to make sure that some of the kids aren't unintentionally disinherited because the other parent may survive and not yourself.

Sharon Wilson:

So there are little things like that. We have documents, like insurance, but we don't update the beneficiary designations.

Yasmine Khan:

How do you do that? How do you go about making a will? Is that expensive? It sounds expensive.

Sharon Wilson:

It's not expensive because, think about this, debt is even more expensive.

Yasmine Khan:

But I'll be gone.

Sharon Wilson:

I know.

Dara M Wilson:

Don't be selfish, Yasmine.

Sharon Wilson:

That's exactly right.

Yasmine Khan:

I'm just being honest about my thought process.

Sharon Wilson:

You are right, but you know, some people that work actually may have the option to speak to an attorney, maybe part of a work benefit. So, you might want to check that out.

Sharon Wilson:

And, usually, if you have a simple will, if you're just talking about, "I have some stuff. These are the people I want to give it to," that's probably the least expensive will.

Sharon Wilson:

And if you call an attorney and you tell that attorney, "I have a simple will," they'll give you a price right over the phone. So, you don't have to worry about going down there and being confronted with something in a bigger price.

Sharon Wilson:

Believe me, you think it's not worth it, but the people you leave behind will curse you because you did not spend that money to make their lives easier.

Yasmine Khan:

That makes sense.

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah.

Yasmine Khan:

Now I'm just worried about dying.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh gosh.

Sharon Wilson:

Don't worry about dying. But this is the secret I tell my clients, whether or not you make a will, you will die anyway.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh.

Yasmine Khan:

That's true. Well, you know what? On that note.

Sharon Wilson:

That note.

Dara M Wilson:

Shake it off. Shake it off. Shake it off.

Sharon Wilson:

This has turned into an uplifting program.

Dara M Wilson:

This is a comedy podcast, right?

Sharon Wilson:

Right.

Dara M Wilson:

Did I read that correctly? Oh, okay.

Dara M Wilson:

We are now moving into our action item. (singing). I like that one.

Sharon Wilson:

I didn't get to sing anything.

Dara M Wilson:

You didn't try. Do it.

Yasmine Khan:

You going to make an action item song? Do it.

Dara M Wilson:

Do the action item song.

Sharon Wilson:

(singing).

Dara M Wilson:

You copied my song.

Yasmine Khan:

But Sharon's voice sounds like velvet.

Sharon Wilson:

Oh, I have to sing a different one?

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah.

Sharon Wilson:

Okay. (singing).

Yasmine Khan:

I love it.

Sharon Wilson:

Okay. So I'm not going to have a career as a singer. I'm an attorney. I got other things to do. I got gifts. It's not on my list. Singing is not on my list of assets.

Yasmine Khan:

I love it. It's so good.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh god. I just so-

Yasmine Khan:

Can we just always use that song?

Dara M Wilson:

We should. Maybe we'll use it as a drop-

Yasmine Khan:

As a clip.

Dara M Wilson:

From now on.

Sharon Wilson:

(singing).

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah. We're getting nods from the producers.

Yasmine Khan:

Put it in the pocket.

Sharon Wilson:

Oh my gosh.

Dara M Wilson:

We found it, everyone. I know you were all worried. Oh my gosh.

Dara M Wilson:

All right. So, our action item, actually, I've been talking a lot. You want to say it?

Yasmine Khan:

Oh, our action item today. I mean, I think you gave us one, let's just say, I'm going to throw it out as a side item. Take off that coat of desperation and make yourself a list of all of your assets. What's your social capital? What are the things around you?

Yasmine Khan:

It might help to tie this back to a couple episodes ago where we talked about our goal game because if you're sitting there wondering, "Why do I even need assets?"

Yasmine Khan:

Look at your vision board. What do you want? What do you want for yourself and your financial future? And what are you first few steps?

Yasmine Khan:

Maybe the first step, if you're sort of stalling out, is take a look at what your assets are. What's in your world and in your community that you can resource?

Dara M Wilson:

So, it's making an inventory of those assets and then deciding how you want to use that inventory. Maybe, making the inventory of your assets makes you reconsider what your goal should be. Maybe you have more momentum in one direction then you realized. That's what we are suggesting for your action item.

Yasmine Khan:

Yeah. I love it. I think that part of what's sort of unfolding in my brain right now, too, is there's like a couple of layers that are starting to build in our narrative.

Yasmine Khan:

There's the practical things you do. Because, at first when we were going to talk about this, I was thinking about how in our goal games episode, you should have really specific goals with timelines, and dates, and steps. Then, when I gave my own goal, it was very soft and mushy because I, personally, had an internal block on actually making what my concrete steps are.

Yasmine Khan:

And, I'm realizing maybe part of that is having this more spiritual and emotional connection to unblock you because it's hard to even say what your first step is going to be, what your timeline is going to be, what your really specific, more fiscal goals are if you don't have that emotional energy-

Sharon Wilson:

Attached to it, right?

Yasmine Khan:

Yes. [crosstalk 00:32:27]-

Sharon Wilson:

So make sure it's something that excites you because it's your life. Make sure it is something that you can't wait to figure out the steps to get to it because it excites you so much every time you think about it.

Yasmine Khan:

And your sense of possibility isn't determined by the balance in your bank account.

Dara M Wilson:

That's right.

Sharon Wilson:

That's right. And where you are now, it's temporary. It's just a stage in life. That's what I wish somebody had told me. This is not forever. This is just a stage.

Sharon Wilson:

And now I can pay for my own hotel room, so that when I come on to Money Ha Ha, I'm good. I'm good.

Yasmine Khan:

Aw. That was a callback.

Sharon Wilson:

I don't have to wait. I don't have to worry about it. I can do that.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh my god. One thing that happens every time my mother comes to visit, I am just totally... The delusion that I have, that I have my own personality, is just washed away and I'm watching OG Dara over here doing it better than I could ever do it.

Yasmine Khan:

What a gift.