PODCAST TRANSCRIPT - EPISODE 269

OVERCOMING UNCONSCIOUS PROGRAMMING WITH RENEE BOWEN

Please note: This transcript was created with the assistance of AI technology. While we strive for accuracy, the text may contain errors and should be verified against the original source for critical uses.

Annemie Tonken  00:00

I first met Rene Bowen as a guest on her podcast, which has the amazing name of tried and true with a dash of Woo. And I loved that because as I got to know her, and as I sort of started to see where our thinking around the business of photography intersected, I loved the perspective that she brought, which was very much rooted in science. This is someone who holds certifications in NLP and brain training and neuro encoding, and hypnosis, all of which, you know, as much as they can sound will have a fair amount of scientific foundation. She also has an undergraduate degree in psychology, but she, she takes this perspective, that just holds space for the way, the ways in which our brains impact our businesses, subconsciously. So when I asked her to come on the podcast, we decided that we were going to talk about this idea of unconscious programming, how, by necessity, we learn from a very young age, how to navigate the world. But we all learn that in a particular way that is dependent upon where we are, what our circumstances are, who the people in our lives are, who are influencing us. And some of those messages are helpful, some of them are very harmful. And as adults, we'd spend a lot of time trying to kind of get at what it is that is helping us and what is not helping us or we do that if we are being intentional about it. And so, Renee is a coach in the photography space, she works with a lot of photographers who are feeling those, you know, sticking points that friction in their businesses, where oftentimes some sort of script that has been running in the background of their lives since early on, is sabotaging their efforts to run a profitable sustainable business. If you have ever had feelings of guilt, when you go to send somebody an invoice this, this is part of your experience. And so I am excited to share this conversation with you. It is a little more woo than is standard on this can't be that hard. But I think that's really refreshing. Sometimes it's great to get these other perspectives. I know that you know, there are enough people out there listening to this show that we all need to hear this in different ways. And Renee really brings some great expertise and insight to this conversation. So I know you're going to enjoy it.

Intro:

Welcome to this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken. And I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it. And I can show you how. Rene Ebola and welcome to this can't be that hard. I am very excited for our conversation today. This is sort of a different one. It's it's nerdy in its own special like whoo corner of the world. But I think that this is going to be a really good one. Let me just start by having you sort of tell anyone who doesn't know who you are a little bit about yourself. And then and then I want to just dive straight into kind of the definition that you use for unconscious programming.

Renee Bowen  03:39

Yeah, I mean, we call it lots of different things. Right. So I'm Rene, Rene Bo, and thanks for having me, by the way, super excited to have this chat with you. And I am a photographer. I've been a photographer for what feels like many, many moons, many lifetimes, right? And basically, you know, professionally since the early 2000s. And I specialize in high school seniors. I also do some branding and headshots. I'm live in the suburbs of Los Angeles. I'm married to an actor, I have three grown kids. So I built my business when my kids were really young. And that was quite the journey. And over the last few years, I have found my roots. I have a bachelor's in psychology. So I dove back into that sort of side of it started coaching. I got certified in a lot of different life coaching modalities. And so I run two businesses. I'm still a full time photographer and I also coach photographers and creatives of all types and I'm a life coach as well as a business coach. So I believe that we need some strategy. We need some whoo to make it all happen. Love

Annemie Tonken  04:51

it, love it so much. And I love that you've got a background in psychology I talk a lot about my major in college was culture anthropology but I was a double major and my other major was in developmental psychology and I, you know, it's one of those both of those actually, I always point to as like, they're great for everything and nothing at the same time. Like not neither of those and you know, psychology, an undergraduate degree in psychology doesn't, you know, we write down a career path. But man, does it ever impact everything that we see out there in the world, and then everything we do as people, you know, being able to have a little bit of analytical perspective on, you know, why we're doing what we're doing, or how we are putting out messages or receiving messages can be so so valuable, which is totally why I am I'm like, jonesing, to hear a little bit more about. Yeah, about this topic that we're chatting on today. Yeah,

05:51

no, I agree. It's, it's like, well, first of all, I always say that photography and portrait photography is that people job, yeah, people job. So yes, we have to know what we're doing. And we'd be good at what we're doing. But so much of the high tides experience, you know, of a boutique experience, especially because you are creating relationships with people. And so it really is about navigating all these personalities. And it definitely came in handy with my kids. I mean, I have a son with autism. So, you know, I didn't realize how impactful that degree was going to be in my life. Yes, I had plans of going back from my master's, and then life took a major detour. And I never did, but it served me really well. So I've always been interested in, you know, all things, unconscious mind. You know, how we work, very analytical, I think that those of us who are analytical by nature, and overthinker has probably are just sort of naturally drawn to psychology and self help. And I've definitely been that person, you know, I was that, that, you know, woowoo person in the early 90s, who was like, very into all of this stuff before, it felt like a lot of people were, but I was in LA. So it was a little bit more mainstream here. But still, you know. So it wasn't until I started going back to school for certifications in NLP, and hypnosis that I really started diving more into this concept of unconscious programming. Because yes, I've been a Tony Robbins girl since the early 2000s. You know, I've done many, many programs. And there's a lot of ways to package this, right? Like, all the books out there, like they're basically kind of all about this, but they're packaged in a way that it will impact you. Right? It's just like anything else. It's just like being a photographer, I feel like, Yes, I hear about it all the time. And I'm sure you do, too, about how saturated the market is, but what makes you you, and what's going to hit your message, you know, to that right person at the right time. And that's really sort of like that same vein, when we're talking about self help self development, and that whole world. But for me, unconscious programming really helps simplify the reasons why we do what we do. Because when we really break it down into its simplest terms, it's just a survival mechanism that we learned. And it was just part of development, right? So zero to age seven, our job is to soak in all the information around us, so that we can become a person so that we can form this personality and a lot of us soaked in a lot of stuff that probably wasn't so good, right? And some people soaked in big traumas, some little and some little traumas that became big traumas, right? Because we have to remember that if we're sucking in this information as a child, we're gonna perceive it in a very big way. Sure. So most of our adult lives I've seen is that we're sort of undoing a lot of that stuff, because it was kind of programmed like a computer against your will. And the thing about it is that your unconscious, its only job is to keep you alive and safe. It is there to get you to run when there is danger, right? So we see a tiger or we see a bear whatever, the blood runs from our brain down to our limbs so that we can get fast but dumb. And so we're not thinking clearly at that point. The problem is that we can continue to live in that state of fight or flight and so many of us are for various reasons. A lot of it is unconscious programming from childhood but a lot of is also the world right? You know, this pandemic has really done a number on so many people and just motherhood and life We get in this loop of nervous system dysregulation, constant fight or flight, constant over activity in the brain. And we're not taking care of that part of us. So that we're just running, we're running hypnotically, basically on on a loop that we don't want to be on. So I find it fascinating because we can change that. And I'm all about pivoting and changing. And I've seen it many, many times. And it doesn't have to take as long as people think, as well. Yeah, so that's kind of, I guess, the 30,000 foot view of how I view, this unconscious mind and our programming. And the reason that I think it's important that we pay attention to that is because it does a reflection, right, like, so, if we are constantly running by the seat of our pants, we're gonna run our business by the seat of our pants, and everything in our life is going to be affected by that our personal relationships, our parenting, the clients that we attract, right, everything's a mirror. So the

Annemie Tonken  11:09

field, how you do one thing is how you do everything adage. And I absolutely can see that. And I know that programming is something that is universal, like we are all for better or for worse. And worse, we come out with the experiences that we have, and the messages that we get from our parents and our family members and the other people around us as we are in those like extremely impressionable programmable phases of our lives. Do you feel since you work primarily with photographers, and you are a photographer, do you feel like this is something that disproportionately affects artists, or affects us in a disproportionately negative way? Because I know that there's also positive programming out there, obviously, not everything that we absorb, as small people is, you know, turns out to be like a bad thing. We're getting all the messages at that point.

12:08

Yeah, no, it's a good point. Because those of us who are creatives do tend to be more sensitive. And I, you know, everyone's different, you know, it's not about just generalizing us into one lump sum, because even within the world of creatives, there's, you know, many, many different types of us, we're all very unique, but I do feel like creatives tend to be more prone, especially to the over analyzation and overactive brain, right, little spicy brain, and call it lots of different things, but it's part of what makes us you know, who we are as artists, I really believe like the creativity and the ability to think outside the box and, and that the yearning most of us I find, especially the people that I know, in my communities and everything, you know, we're sort of always like that, but a lot of people unfortunately, were told that that wasn't a valuable skill, right? Because we were brought up in sort of a world and things have changed, thankfully. But when I was a kid, and and even not that long ago, and as part of the school system, I think to to, like, conform to normal, or whatever, that yes, yeah, right. And there is no normal, right? There's none. But we, we really were, for lack of a better word institutionalized to believe that we needed to be we needed to check these boxes, to be a productive member of society, right. And those of us who are artists, alike have this internal rebellion against that, because we know that that's not who our true self and our soul is, but so we spend a lot of time especially as kids and an adolescence especially trying to fit in, because that is a core human need is to want to fit in want to be accepted. Please don't look at me, you know, because we don't want to be seen as our amazing, unique selves. It is so scary to do that. But it's also so incredibly freeing. Like that's, that's the goal, I believe, is to become the most you that you can be. And so, to do that, you really do have to make some waves. Because you're not gonna You're not for everybody, not even just as a business owner. You're not for everybody as a person. That's okay. Sure, you know, but we that need of us, you know, to be accepted as it is a really deep seated need in a lot of us. So yeah, I feel like that all comes to play. Yeah,

Annemie Tonken  14:44

definitely. And I think to your point, it is one of the things that is that double edged sword like what makes us who we are and what makes us great as artists and creatives can also be the thing that really holds us back when we go To try and turn that into a business and monetize that, and all that. So you do a lot of coaching. Where do you see this show up in your photography coaching clients? Like what are the things that are really holding them back from sort of moving into that next phase of their photography businesses?

15:19

Mostly pricing, right? Mostly when it comes to realizing and looking at numbers and going, oh, yeah, this isn't going to be profitable. This isn't sustainable, I have to raise my prices. And so that that usually is sort of where it kind of sparks like, there's a lot of guilt. I see. So, so so many photographers be guilty, feel guilty about charging people who are coming to them for a service that they wanted, right, they are coming to them for this amazing service that they're putting out there and offering and then they feel guilty sending that invoice. Or, you know, there's there's something about that, that is just keeping them stuck. That is the main thing. And then the other thing is the showing up, showing up online, whatever it is showing up in person, there's a lot of you know, while I would just rather be behind the camera. Yes, I totally get that. And I've been there like, honestly, like, I've dealt with both of those things. And so that's another reason why I talk about what I do, because it is the thing that is holding us back. But I also believe that if you were drawn to this career, this business, this art form, whatever it is that you're doing, if you were drawn to it, first of all, it's it's who you're meant to be, right, that's that's part of your journey. It's not even necessarily about achieving it. I mean, I'm all about achieving goals, but it's not necessarily about achieving it. It's about who you become along the way. Yeah. Like it's really about who you're becoming. And so if you are willing to look at that, with honesty, you will be able, I mean, you're gonna learn so much more about yourself even just on that path. And I believe that if you're drawn to this, you also were meant to see that, like you were this it is it is a trigger. If Yeah, right. Yeah. to like, go oh, oh, that's interesting. That's something that I didn't even realize, like when I was going through my pricing stuff, I brought up all kinds of stuff that I was just unaware that I was running as a script and my ad like, completely unaware of it when I stopped and I looked at it, like Where's this coming from? And then when I realized that I can just highlight it and go, Okay, that's interesting. That's the other side of it, though, is looking at it with neutrality and not judging ourselves. And that's the other thing that we do as creatives, which is, like 99% of us have really nasty inner saboteurs. Yeah, like really nasty voices in our head. And that voice is not your intuition. That voice is not telling you the truth. Okay. That is your unconscious programming, pulling you back to safety, because it thinks that what you're doing is going to literally kill you. That's all it thinks. Right? And so it's up to us to understand that it's, that's all it is. It's, it doesn't need to be like, I'm so stupid. I can't believe I'm continuing to do this. Why can't I just know, step back, look at it as a thing of neutrality. Like, that's an interesting piece of information that I didn't know, was there. Okay. Do I want to work on it? Because we all have a choice? Do I want to deal with it? Or do I want to just keep pushing it away? Yeah, no. And it really the choice is yours.

Annemie Tonken  18:41

I feel like the first time that I ever heard about this sort of subconscious programming, but also basically the part of our brain. That is, it's binary, it's like, this is death or safety. There's no like, well, this may be uncomfortable, but you're gonna be okay. It's, you know, the worst that could happen was bah, bah, bah. And somebody called that your lizard brain. Yeah, because it developed back when we were, you know, coming out of the muck, basically, like it was just a safety feature in our brains. So every time that I think about this, I like thinking of it as this lizard brain because if it's coming from a lizard, I'm much more able to say like, okay, that's sweet that you think that but I'm a person, I can think bigger thoughts than that I can think more nuanced in a more nuanced way. It sort of gave me the ability to almost, you know, give form to those kinds of thoughts and a lizard is an easy one to just sort of. Yeah, okay, you may look a little scary, but you're tiny and not a big deal. And so I think that yeah, like so many of the things that we get hung up on and money is such a huge one and I hold such big space for creatives who decide to go into business, it is hard, because you are like fighting yourself. You're fighting you know, suicide Anybody who for all their claims of loving art did generally tend to sort of devalue it and all this other stuff. And so we're we're fighting what I believe it's very much the good fight, it can feel like an uphill battle. So yeah,

20:11

and it can feel very lonely because you feel like that's the other trick of it, it makes you feel like you're the only person dealing with this. I guess what? Hello, you're not Yeah, like, literally all of us are dealing with this. And I don't care how many people you think have it together, they all still pops up it, okay, it's there to keep us alive. We are, like you said it is the lizard part of your brain, it is the oldest part of our brain. And it is there to just keep the human race going. That's its only job. That's it. And so if you can break it down to that, you can give it a visual, like a lizard or whatever. Like, sometimes I picture it as a T Rex, which is really funny. I don't know why. But like, it is that that part of us, that's just like, okay, but I really believe that it is, there's a couple of different ways to look at it. And, you know, some of my clients really need to view that inner saboteur in a way that is going to like that in an in a not very positive view, because it feels like it is, you know, someone really cracking the whip on you. Okay, so, personify that. And who does that remind you of? Mainly, right, because there's probably somebody in your past that that might remind you, I'm sure, that could be one strategy to deal with it. There's also the other thing of just naming it as somebody that you don't like a person that doesn't feel good to you. But what I feel like is the most effective is to just really, like, picture it as little you because it kind of is. And when you start running from something that I've dealt with anxiety my whole life. And so this is definitely kinda like that. When you run from anxiety, you act like Oh, my God, I just, I just don't want to have another panic attack or whatever. It's kind of the same thing with this, if you keep running from it and acting like it's not there, and like, it's just gonna get bigger, it's just gonna get bigger, because it's literally like the energy, it's all energetics, right? What you resist persists. So if you stop, and you are able to really just have that awareness of this is what this is. And I am well resourced now. And so what's one of the things that I, I usually will lean more toward, as far as like working with my clients about is getting to a space where they can look at this part of themselves, that inner voice, whatever you want to call it as a mechanism that is just trying to keep you safe. And stopping and thinking it first and saying, Okay, thank you for keeping us alive. Like you have done a fabulous job, we're alive, like, good job. However, the conscious part of your brain, the evolved part of our brain, we want something more, we want something different. We want better bigger, you know, we want to step into our highest potential. You can't do that, if that unconscious part of you is running the show, right? For most of it, it is running the show like 90% of your brain like it, we get on autopilot, autopilot with it. Right. So it's really about us making the decision to look at it through that lens of just is, it is a newt it is a thing, right? Like just like how you would look at a tree. Oh, that's a pretty tree. Oh, that's a building. It's red. That's my unconscious programming. It's just trying to keep me alive. You know? Like, it's just part of us. And so looking at it and saying, Okay, thank you so much for keeping us alive, but you're dismissed, like, you're good. I've got this get in the back seat, I'm driving the car now. And this is where we're going. And you're safe. Because I've got you, that usually helps people a little bit more long term. Because you're facing it, you're, you know, really actually dealing with it, not sweeping it away and telling it to, you know, eff off, you're dealing with it. And then the more you do that, again, we know the more we do things, right, we're going to get better at them. We weren't all great photographers, when we picked up a camera, you know, same thing. So it's the same kind of, you know, mentality, we have to be willing to put in the practice of rewiring that. Yeah.

Annemie Tonken  24:24

And I imagine that that's sort of a lifelong journey for all of us. I mean, you talked about adulthood is basically the undoing of some of the less productive things that we are programmed with when we start out. But when it comes to the things in this hardwiring, that are holding us individually back in our businesses, we're talking about sort of noticing it as step number one, maybe giving it a little bit of a nickname or a visual or some sort of representation so that you can go All that to mind when you start to notice those things showing up, I love the idea of the Thank you, but we're good. Now I actually my best friend is a vet. And years ago when she helped me pick out my first dog, and to this day, he will bark like crazy when the UPS man comes or whatever. And, and I at first I was trying to get him to stop, you know, no, you be quiet, whatever. And she was like, you really should acknowledge what he's trying to do for you, which is to protect you, you can say thank you. And then let him know that you're okay. And so now that you've said that I'm like, I'm gonna think of this as Otis being, you know, going bananas at the door and me saying, Okay, thanks. So does, handing him a toy that's now our routine, my sweet dog is not trying to do anything malicious, he's trying to protect me. So I appreciate that. But also, it's not necessary. And I know that because I'm the one in charge. And so all of these steps are really good, when it's something that you need to kind of get beyond in a shorter term period of time, not like the life journey. What are what are the additional ways that you see being helpful for that?

26:13

Yeah, I mean, I do feel like, you know, our journey is our journey is gonna, you know, it's part of our lifetime here. But we can actually get through stuff way quicker than I feel like we have been sold, right. And listen, I'm a big proponent of therapy, like huge, but sometimes people can get stuck in that. Yeah. And, you know, like, what I really would encourage people to look at if they're struggling with some of this, is to try and get some solution based, you know, and there are a lot of therapists who do that, but but I do see a lot of people just kind of stuck in the loop of staying in it. And really, what you want to do is move through it, right, you don't want to have to be in that place anymore. It's not comfortable. So why stay there. So there's a lot of different ways that you can do this. I mean, one of the things that I'm a big believer in, and that I use, is hypnosis meditation, there's a reason why people say meditation is like the key to life. Because it kind of is, I mean, meditation changes your resonance, it changes your energetic frequency, it changes your vibration, and this whole place, this whole planet, and everything, this desk, this mic, just energy, everything is energetic, right? So if we can just learn to step into our fullest resonance, that's really all we need to be worried about. And I know that sounds very egocentric, but it's actually the opposite of that. Because when you when you do that a lot when you meditate a lot, when you do hypnosis, when you get, you know, in that alignment, it's not about you, like nothing is about you. And then you start to realize that literally none of this matters. And none of this is about you. It's about what you bring to other people, your resonance, your connection, we are literally all the same waves in the ocean, we are all the same. When it when we break it down energetically. We're all part of this. And so the more connected we feel to each other. The happier we feel, the better we feel. It's in the disconnect, that we don't feel good. And anxiety lies to us. The overthinking lies to us the inner saboteur lies. It keeps you very like Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee right. And it's not about us, at the end of the day. So I'm a big believer in meditation. And it doesn't have to be like, I'm sitting down for an hour long and I'm doing the meditation. And you know, the thing that I hear from people all the time is, well, my brain doesn't stop and I don't I'm not doing it right. Well there. First of all, there's nothing that you need to be doing right like it is. It's not about being perfect at this. It's literally about just stepping into that space and allowing to see what comes through hypnosis, I find is a little bit easier for people with creative brains because I create tracks. So I do have some, you know, hypnosis tracks that people can just kind of listen to, I create some specifically for myself, I'll create them specifically for coaching clients, you know, I can work one on one with people, but I find that it's easier for us to sort of step into that space, because it's framed in a little bit slightly different way like I'm speaking to your unconscious mind. You don't get to do nothing. Step aside. Like literally, it doesn't matter what you're doing. I mean, obviously you don't wanna be driving a car because it does have the side effect of nice relaxation. But like after my some of my coaching clients have been doing it for a while. They'll listen to hypnosis, try Because when they're editing, they'll listen to it when they're cleaning the house like because you're just your unconscious mind is getting the good stuff. And it has binaural beats and some music. So you know, you get the side effect of feeling good as well. So I find that hypnosis is a little bit easier for people. But it could be as simple as five minute journaling in the morning, like setting the tone for your day, I shared something just recently on my Instagram about this, my husband struggles with a very, very nasty inner saboteur, like his whole life. And I really feel that and he's, he's, like, probably one of the most the most creative people I've ever met. Like, all all creativity, like, he can write, he can draw, he can act, he can direct he can, like, I've never, I've never met anybody who is literally like, oh, I can do that, you know, and it's all this most amazing, like creatively artistic art form, and he has a lot of depression. And so people I find who deal with a lot of depression have a really heavy inner saboteur. So it's been his life journey to work with that. And one of the strategies that works really, really well for him is that, you know, his alarm goes off, but he's not getting right out of bed, like because then people, like, you got to find what works for you. For me, my alarm goes off, I'm up. I'm like, let's go, let's start the day I can't freakin wait. Okay, he's like, just no. need, I need a minute, right? And so, he it, his alarm goes off, he presses news, he puts in his earbuds, and he listens to a track. And it's usually like a hypnosis track. Or like, he has this mantra that he's like, sort of created for himself over the years that he's refined. And it's playing that it only takes about 1015 minutes or something. But he's setting the tone for his day, he's getting all the good stuff, like right as you're coming out of sleep is a fantastic time to do it. Because you're coming out of delta waves, theta waves. And your theta brainwaves is all creativity, that's where we lived before, we were seven, basically. And so that's why we were able to suck everything in. So theta is a great place to be in. And so he sets the tone for me, that doesn't work. I don't want to listen to anything. I feel like that's keeping me like, in a in a, you know, I'm not starting yet. Like it's kind of hard to explain, but I don't feel aligned with that. Because I just want to kind of get up and start and, you know, go for a walk or get dressed or do a podcast, whatever it is, I prefer to do that kind of stuff at night when I am finally coming down from my Yeah, you know, go go go nest because I'm just naturally that kind of person. So you have to find what works for you. And it could be like in the middle of the day for you. So I think the first thing is that you need to kind of just explore that a little bit. Sometimes you have to experiment and say, yeah, that didn't work and see the contrast of that, and follow the joy of what feels good for you. And don't let someone else tell you that you have to do it this way. Because that's not the case. Well,

Annemie Tonken  33:10

and that frequently is the culprit when it comes to us getting into cycles of doing things that aren't in alignment with who we are or what makes sense. And then yeah, and then it all feels hard. Mm hmm. I love that. And I imagine that many of the people listening have never played around with hypnosis. I mean, I think a lot of people have probably dabbled with in meditation at some point or another in their journey. But I love that that's something that you really work in and a modality that you have pushed out in this particular way as a way for creatives to kind of tap deeper into that and get a little bit more almost passive realignment, which is which just sounds miraculous. Yeah,

33:59

it's like, step aside, let me just let me just do the work for you. Yeah. And that's literally what it's about, like, you don't really actually have to be an active participant in it. And in fact, it's better if you're not because you're gonna overthink your way and try and logic your way out of it. Just just step aside, put some earbuds in put some headphones on, and just let me do work. Like, really, it's funny, I had a client not long ago, you know, she was really struggling with a lot of the pricing stuff, a lot of the raising the prices, and so a lot of triggers coming up. And you know, one of the things I told her is like you, you definitely need to be listening to these like every day for the next like two weeks. Just give it a full two weeks. Like, just commit to it. There's 30 minutes each. There's not that long, right? And so a few weeks went by actually and she was like, Yeah, it's interesting. I just don't really feel that. It doesn't feel that big anymore. I'm like, yeah, and she's like, I wonder why I'm like I wonder why You know what I mean? Like, so you don't even notice. And so that's what's really cool about it. That's when that's when most people are sold. They're like, Oh, okay, I get it now, because it happens, like, all of a sudden, you'll just feel like, I don't feel that charged up about it anymore. It's like, yes, it's still there. I still can see it. But it's like you're looking like at it in black and white. When it's not in full color anymore, right? I mean, right? And that's kind of where you want to be. Because you're not so close to it. Amazing.

Annemie Tonken  35:35

And you have if I'm not mistaken, a resource that you can share on that correct?

35:40

Yes, there's like a free hypnosis that you guys can download. So I'll get you guys that link. And you can just give it a shot and try it and see if you like it. I have I have a whole private podcast that I call calibrate that I have a lot of my tracks on and they add to over time. So you know, that's another resource, but I have a free download for you guys to just kind of like, get a little try. See how you like it. Because you really do it has to align with you. Right? Like not everybody, it there's a lot of people doing a lot of these things. And the thing is, is to find the one that feels good to you. Because if it doesn't feel good to you, you're not going to do it. And it's just like anything else. It's just like going to the gym. If you want something better, you you have to be someone different. And this is how you change that. This is how you shift. And it's not about like, Oh, I'm going to completely leave behind this whole personality. No, but you absolutely can change those things about yourself and rewire those things in your unconscious programming that are not as desirable or they're not going to get you where you want to go. You can

Annemie Tonken  36:52

amazing so good Brene tell everyone out there who is like I need more. I want more Renee, how they can connect with you and and and of course we will link your your resources in the show notes.

37:07

Yeah, I'm just Renee Bo I'm pretty much across the board Renee bowen.com. And at renew Renee Bowen on Instagram Tiktok I'm on Tik Tok a lot that one's Renee underscore Bowen. But yeah, you'll be able to find me pretty much wherever. If you type my name in and I'm always chatting with people in my DMs. I also have some free Facebook communities for people so yeah, just get in touch. I

37:31

love it. Love it. Love it. Well,

Annemie Tonken  37:32

thank you again and and yeah, this has been everything that I was hoping it was going to be. Have a great dad.

Outro:

Well, that's it for this week's episode of This can't be that hard. I'll be back Same time, same place next week. In the meantime, you can find more information about this episode, along with all the relevant links, notes and downloads at this can't be that hard.com/learn If you liked the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review on iTunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.