News

• Jim and I are doing the second annual Gingerbread Challenge in Walt Disney World, starting Friday December 2, 2022.  

• We’re doing a live podcast recording on December 2.  Tickets available at https://touringplans.com/2022-disney-dish-tp
  

• I’m speaking at IAAPA (Int’l Ass of Amusement Parks and Attractions) in Orlando on November 18.

• Disney’s released Galactic Starcruiser dates for 2023, and Jim and I - and Hank Lonely - are doing the voyage on March 30, 2023.  We’ve already got something like 16 cabins booked, and that’s a decent portion of the ship for the Dish.  If you’d like to join a band of stellar misfits on a journey for the ages, visit http://storybookdestinations.com/disneydish/ to get a quote.
  

D23 News

Jim, this is the news segment, so let’s talk here about just the things that the public was told. And then in the main segment, you can give us all the juicy behind-the-scenes gossip, okay?

TRON Opening Date is Spring 2023

Jim, every show should begin with a round of self-congratulations, or, as one of our listeners put it, the phrase “I believe I informed you thusly.”  

That announcement prompted this email from our friend Michael:

I went back and listened to the entirety of the Disney Parks and Entertainment Panel.  I watched the  hype videos and other promises of great things to come from the Josh D'Amora presentation.  After reflection, I think I speak for all of us in the WDW community when I say..."meh."  In fact my one moment of excitement during the panel was shouting "I believe Len called that!!" when they announced Tron opening in Spring 2023.

Do you think this is just a mistake in Disney's strategic planning, hedging bets against a more hostile environment in Florida, or something else?  

I'll admit Josh's ability to make the mundane appear applause-worthy is impressive.  I'd like to see if he's open to announcing "Salmon Night" at dinner to my 4 kids and get a better reaction than I do.

“Tiana’s Bayou Adventure” update

June 2020 – Walt Disney Company first announced that “Splash Mountain” at both Disneyland Park in California and the Magic Kingdom at the WDW Resort would be rethemed around the Studio’s 2009 release, “The Princess & the Frog” while all references to “Song of the South” (Disney’s now-controversial release from 1946) would be removed.

Initial concept art showed Tiana in her Disney Princess outfit alongside Louis, the trumpet-playing alligator. Original storyline of this attraction was built around Louis in pursuit of his trumpet. Which was supposedly being swept away by this flume ride’s current. Tiana was to only make two appearance total in this ride, both times in her Disney Princess outfit.

Development of project began in 2019. Serious discussion of removing all “Song of the South” elements began four years previous in 2014.

Charita Carson – who was just coming off of working on “Mickey & Minnie’s Runaway Railway” (which opened in March of that same year) – was tasked to be the executive producer of this “Splash Mountain” redo. Charita wanted this attraction to be as authentic as possible to the New Orleans region. Reached out to all sorts of folks within the community. Also did focus groups to determine what people might be looking for with a ride tied to Disney’s “Princess & the Frog.”

• Focus group told her that Tiana needed to have a far more central position / a more active role in an attraction that featured her name. “Louis loses his trumpet” storyline dropped in favor of a new “Tiana needs our help in finding a special ingredient for her famous Mardi Gras gumbo” instead.
  
• Locals pointed out that New Orleans is basically a tidal flat. No mountains here. But they do have salt mines in the region that protrude up out of the bayou.

Ride gets new storyline / new location.

Also a new backstory. It’s now about 5 years after the events we saw in “The Princess & the Frog.” The success of the “Tiana’s Palace” restaurant has led to the launch of “Tiana’s Food.” Which is an employee-owned community food co-op that this Disney Princess established back in 1927.

You can see some of the crops that are grown for “Tiana’s Food” as your log cruises along the topmost trough after you make your way to the grist mill which carries you up there. En route, you float through a bayou. The Laughing Place – with its tangle of giant thorns – is now gone.

In its place are tall cypress trees and a water tower with the “Tiana’s Food” logo (which features a neon crown) on top of it.

These tall elements are supposed to make the old Splash Mountain structure (now supposedly a salt mine) look smaller / lower to the ground. Actually fit in a New Orleans / bayou-based setting.

“Tiana’s Food” idea allows Imagineers to step away from the previously steamboat-like look of “Tiana’s Palace.” Hungry Bear at Disneyland and Pecos Bill’s Tall Tale Inn & Café to now become offshoots of her “Tiana’s Food” & “Tiana’s Palace” business empire.

July 2022 – Official new name for attraction announced. “Tiana’s Bayou Adventure.” Merch teams at Disneyland Park & Magic Kingdom hoped that “Splash Mountain” name would remain attached to this flume ride in some way. Now have to revised “Disney Mountain Range” merchandise line (Matterhorn, Space Mountain, Big Thunder & Splash for West Coast; Space Mountain, Big Thunder & Splash for East Coast).

News coming out of D23 Expo. Ride will have a special lighting package / take advantage of all of projection mapping experience the Company has had to date. At least one scene will feature a Bayou magic mist effect. Attraction will look spectacular / glow with Mardi Gras colors at night.

Chickapen Hill is now Mama Odie’s home away from her boat. Features lit-up bottle effect from original “Princess & the Frog” film.

Separate project managers for each version of the ride. Disneyland version will open in late 2024. Not sure when the WDW version will open.

Different team in Florida.

“Journey of Water, Inspired by Moana” update

August 2019 – Project first announced as part of the reimagining of Epcot’s Future World section into three new neighborhoods: World Celebration, World Discovery & World Nature.

Celebrates the natural cycle of water. Educational walk-thru that doubles as a water play area.

September 2019 – Future World begins to close to make way for reinvention of this portion of Epcot.

According to a member of the “Journey of Water” production team that I spoke with at the D23 Expo, they already had many of the valves & pipes they need to build this World Nature attraction onsite in late 2019 / early 2020. Another project at Walt Disney World suddenly needed this same material for their effort. “Journey of Water” released their material to this other WDW project. Because they knew that they call always re-order this same material. I mean, what are the chances that the world’s supply chains will then get disrupted.

March 2020 – Disney World Resort closes. World supply chains get disrupted. Price of steel goes through the roof.

July 15, 2020 – Epcot re-opens after being closed for three months.

October 2021 – Earth moving finally begins onsite

Late 2023 – Projected opening of “Journey of Water, Inspired by Moana.” Hard to be more definitive about an opening date, again because of those supply chain issues. Possibility of prolonged rail strike terrifies these guys.

16-foot-tall Ta Fiti. Edges made up of real plantings. Actual body of Ta Fiti covered by faux greenery. Will hold up better in Central Florida sun.

“Frozen” themed lands at Tokyo DisneySea & Hong Kong Disneyland

“Frozen Ever After” ride. Reimagined as ride that now features 16 passenger boats to increase capacity.

Show building hidden by faux mountain range. On top of which sits a smallish-but-still-sizable version of Elsa’s ice palace. Swarovski crystals will be built into Elsa’s ice palace to make it sparkle from a distance.

“Wandering Oaken’s Sliding Sleighs” ride for Hong Kong Disneyland looks like “Seven Dwarfs Mine Train.” Doesn’t sway. Actually a family friendly coaster like “Gadget’s Go-Coaster” with a longer track. One show scene leading up the top of the load hill.

“Mickey’s Toontown” update

Entire land at Disneyland reimagined to be ADA accessible. Fountain moved from in front of Mickey’s House to nearby Centennial Park. Made to be accessible by kids in wheelchairs. All streets & curbs removed. One flat surface. Ramps allow kids to climb to the top of Fort Max.

This part of Park seems bigger. Just made room of all available space. Pumpkin patch & Goofy’s car removed from house. Water feature around Donald’s boat, the Miss Daisy, now covered in blue play deck. Again, wheelchair accessible.

Leans into the success of “The Goofy Movie.” Bigfoot trap. Likewise does tie-in with “Goofy’s Candy Kitchen” brand at Parks. Guests – when they drop by Goofy’s house – can now look in on the actual Goody’s Kitchen.

The hills behind Toontown & Mickey’s House are now much taller and make use of more dimensional flats. That’s to help hide the genuinely massive “Mickey & Minnie’s Runaway Railway” show building. Which is right backstage. This spot used to be okayed by Disneyland’s entertainment offices.

Tokyo DisneySea Fantasy Springs

Remember how the original version of New Fantasyland at WDW’s Magic Kingdom was supposed to have a Pixie Hollow area. Peter Pan’s Neverland (which is to be part of Tokyo DisneySea’s Fantasy Springs expansion area) will feature a trackless pirate ship ride as well a Tinkerbell attraction which use the very same system that powered “Heimlich’s Chew-Chew Train” (Buzz Bar). Much longer ride experience. And you’re supposed to be traveling in a ride vehicle that Tinkerbell herself cobbled together out of buttons, a discarded basket and a throw-away party invitation.

Surveys

Our friend Joseph Matt sends in a survey similar to the one we read on last week’s show, with this added question:

Listener Questions

From Dan:

What is the future of Galaxy Edge and Galactic Starcruiser since it looks like Disney is done with the Reboot Trilogy? Do the international editions move forward as is, with slight changes (for example, you could replace Kylo/Rey/Finn in “Rise” with Mandalorian characters and not miss a story beat), as completely different projects (perhaps leaning on the original Tatooine plans), or get scrapped altogether? Thanks.

From Erin:

My dad just gave me his vacation planning materials from 1986 and i thought you’d appreciate what may have been one of the first unofficial touring plans back in the day. I was especially interested in the price of the 4 day park hopper! I was 6 years old on this trip but knowing my dad, it’s not shocking that we still have all this stuff.

Love the show!! Especially last week's 20,000 leagues ride history.

Disney Patents

Blue Sky Feature Piece

July 2017 – At that year’s Disney Parks presentation at the D23 Expo, Bob Chapek (who – at that time – was just Chairman of Disney Parks. NOT CEO of the whole Mouse House) stood onstage in Hall D23 and said:

Across all Disney Parks, we’re proud to treat our Guests to world class entertainment. Whether it’s watching parades or spectaculars or frankly getting goosebumps during our fireworks or losing yourself to one of our riveting shows, our teams continue to create show stopping entertainment that Guests remember forever. And I’m thrilled to announce today that a new theater is coming to Magic Kingdom at the Walt Disney World Resort. And as this concept rendering shows, it shall dwell right off of Main Street, U.S.A. That’s because it’s based on the iconic Willis Theater in 1920’s Kansas City. Across Walt Disney Parks & Resorts, we’ve been upping our game in entertainment. And this new theater at Walt Disney World continues that streak. And we’ll definitely have more later on what will be performed here.

This was a go project. Largely because this was something that the Magic Kingdom has needed since that theme park first opened in October of 1971. An indoor theater with a capacity similar to the one out at Disney California Adventure (The Hyperion Theater seats 1,984 people per performance).

At this very same Parks presentation, TRON Lightcycle Run was announced for the Magic Kingdom.

November 2017 – Permits for both of these projects were pulled with the South Florida Water Management District. The Magic Kingdom Theater project was designated as MK1 and the TRON Lightcycle Coaster project was designated as MK2.

May 2018 – Magic Kingdom Theater project (MK1) cancelled.

January 2019 – TRON Lightcycle Run finally breaks ground.

I shared this story because I want Disney Dish listeners to understand how The Walt Disney Company typically announces projects that are actually going to happen. Remember what Bob Chapek said back in July of 2017?

And I’m thrilled to announce today that a new theater is coming to Magic Kingdom at the Walt Disney World Resort.

Now let’s talk about how Josh D’Amaro – the current Chairman of Disney Parks, Experiences and Products – talked to event attendees this past weekend. As Josh stood onstage in Hall D23 and enthused about what MIGHT be coming to Disney’s Animal Kingdom and the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World:

That all sounds great. And we have real, real aspirations for this part of the Park. We’re all so excited about the possibilities here.

SIDE NOTE: “Real, real aspirations” is an oxymoron. Like definite possibility, jumbo shrimp & military intelligence.

This is how D’Amaro talked when he was onstage with Chris Beatty …

Beatty – who joined Imagineering back in 1997 – became the Creative Executive for both the Magic Kingdom & Disney’s Hollywood Studios back in November of 2019. When Joe Rohde retired from The Walt Disney Company in January 2021, Chris became the Creative Executive in charge of Disney’s Animal Kingdom as well.

Also onstage with Josh was Jennifer Lee …

Jennifer Lee was initially hired by Walt Disney Animation Studios back in March of 2011 for what was originally just supposed to be an eight week-long assignment (She was brought in to help fix the script for “Wreck-It Ralph”). Jennifer quickly rose through the ranks at the Mouse House, eventually winning an Academy Award as the co-director of Disney’s “Frozen.” After John Lasseter stepped away from the Company in November of 2017, Lee was named Chief Creative Officer of Walt Disney Animation Studios.

So you get what’s going on here. Josh D’Amaro is standing onstage with Chris Beatty & Jennifer Lee talking about what might be coming to two Disney Parks in Florida. Which is why the 7500 people in Hall D23 (as well as everyone online) subsequently lost their mind when these three began talking about

• a Moana Land & a Zootopia area for Disney’s Animal Kingdom
• and a “Coco” -themed section, an “Encanto” area and a Disney Villains Land for the Magic Kingdom

From what I’ve been told by someone who’s very well connecting with this effort … What Josh, Chris & Jennifer did onstage this past Sunday wasn’t so much a pulling back of the curtain of what was actually coming to two of the theme parks at Walt Disney World. But – rather – a celebration of the blue sky process at Walt Disney Imagineering. A time when every idea is still on the table.

Don’t believe me? Okay, here’s Chris Beatty talking about that “Zootopia” land that’s supposedly being proposed for Disney’s Animal Kingdom. This is an exact quote of what he said onstage this past Sunday:

“Watching Judy Hopps board the train and then go through those amazing landscapes and the animals in those environments just jumped off the screen at me as a possibility that could live in Animal Kingdom.”

And here’s Jennifer talking about that “Encanto” themed area that the Imagineers are supposedly looking at building out behind Big Thunder Mountain. Again, this is an exact quote of what Ms. Lee said onstage in Hall D23 at this year’s Expo:

“And what if we do want to talk about Bruno? No one could bring a magical house to life like Imagineering. What if you could walk into the Madigral’s magical casita – I’m just saying – and meet the family? What if Maribel is your guide, introducing you to all the wonders within those walls? Bruno’s tower? Antonio’s room? All of it. What if you could step up to a door and discover your own magical gift?”

That’s a lot of What Ifs, don’t you think?

Even the concept paintings that were shared to help hype these two projects (And have since been dissected like they were frames from the Zapruder film), D’Amaro was very careful to describe as not being definitive. The terms he used for these two images were “early concept” or “a thought starter.”

Not to put too fine a point on all this, but the way D’Amaro closed out this portion of his Disney Parks, Experiences and Products Presentation was the real giveaway. Just before Josh sent Chris & Jennifer backstage and then moved on to the next part of this show, D’Amaro turned to these two and said:

I can’t wait to keep talking with you both about both of these ideas and start locking some of this in.

You heard that last part, right? “Start locking some of this in.” As in: Not all of the ideas mentioned onstage at this year’s Disney Parks, Experiences & Products presentations will actually make into Disney’s Animal Kingdom or the Magic Kingdom.

And let’s not forget how D’Amaro described that Villains Land which has been proposed for the Magic Kingdom. Again, this is an exact quote from Sunday’s presentation:

This one is not planned for anytime soon.

So let’s review here. We have the Chairman of Disney Parks & Resorts talking about projects that haven’t been locked in yet and that won’t be starting construction anytime soon. And just down the street, Epic Universe is leaping up out of the ground and will begin welcoming visitors no later than 2025.

So to answer Disney Guy AKA PSA Guy (who reached out via Twitter): “Do I think that Disney Villain Land is supposed to be the Company’s answer to Universal Classic Monster Land over at Epic Universe?” Ah, no. To be honest, I’ll be surprised if even a third of what D’Amaro, Beatty & Lee talked about onstage this past Sunday actually gets built in Florida.

Mind you, there may be method to Disney’s madness here. You have to remember that Parks & Resorts was very concerned about Universal’s Islands of Adventure (not to mention the expansion of the entire Universal Orland Resort) back in the mid-1990s. Which is why the Imagineers readied this array of E Tickets (among them “Fire Mountain,” the transforming coaster based on “Atlantis: The Lost Empire” that was supposed to be built at the Magic Kingdom), just in case they had to give visitors to Florida a compelling new reason to visit the Walt Disney World Resort.

But then came May of 1999. And Universal’s Islands of Adventure stumbled coming out of the gate. Disney saw no drop in attendance levels at its Florida Resort. Which is why they then cancelled all of those ambitious new E-Tickets that it planned for Walt Disney World.

It’s worth noting here that Islands of Adventure did eventually hit its stride with the June 2010 opening of the original “Wizarding World of Harry Potter.” Which is what then forced Disney to step up its game and first build “Pandora – The World of Avatar” (which opened in May of 2017) and then two “Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edges” (The California one opened on late May of 2019, while the Florida version opened in late August of that same year).

Given how Universal Creative has really delivered the goods over the past decade, I’m thinking that it might be a mistake for Disney Parks, Experiences & Products’ part to spend this much time talking about things that MIGHT get built in Florida. Rather than actually building new rides, shows & attractions at Disney’s Animal Kingdom & the Magic Kingdom.

But as Len has so often pointed out on this podcast, The Walt Disney Company should have been adding new rides & shows to those Parks (Hell, to all of its Florida Parks) for more than a decade now. Which is why they’re having the capacity issues that they are today.

Don’t get me wrong here. I like Josh D’Amaro, Chris Beatty & Jennifer Lee. I’ve met them all previously. And they seem like lovely people. But that 15-minute-long chunk of this year’s Disney Parks, Experiences & Products was a festival of What If where very little real news actually got broken.

Of course, what’s really ironic here is that – while thousands of blurry photos of those two already blurry early concepts or thought starters were shared online – almost no one is talking about the REAL news that got broken at this year’s Disney Parks, Experiences & Products Presentation.

What am I talking about? In the “Zootopia Land” portion of this presentation, Jennifer Lee came within inches of confirming that Disney actually has a sequel in the works for the original “Zootopia.” If you watch the YouTube version of this presentation, there’s a moment where Chris Beatty talks about “ … characters & districts within the City of Zootopia that we haven’t seen yet.” And Lee’s response was “Wait. Just Wait.”

Back in February of 2019, Tommy “Tiny” Lister (Who voiced Nick Wilde’s partner-in-crime, Finnick Fox, in the first “Zootopia” film) revealed that he had been tapped to voice that character again in the TWO “Zootopia” sequels that Walt Disney Animation Studios had planned at that time. But the Mouse House has never confirmed that these projects were actually in the works. Until Jennifer’s exchange onstage with Chris this past Sunday.

This reminds me of what happened at the “Marvelous Mechanized Magic Kingdom” event at the Disneyland Hotel back in September of 2010. As part of this presentation, they had a handful of former Imagineers up onstage who had worked on the original “Star Tours.” And one of these guys – in kind of a throwaway comment – said something to the effect of “ … it makes me sad that they’re going to replace Rex with C3PO.”

After that show, I remember Seth Kubersky walking up to me and saying “You heard that, right? That guy said that C3PO was replacing REX as the pilot of the Starspeeder in ‘Star Tours’ ?” My response was “I think so. But then again, that guy kind of threw away that comment. So I don’t know if we should take what he said seriously.”

8 months later, when “Star Wars: The Adventures Continue” opened at both Disneyland Park & Disney’s Hollywood Studios in May of 2011, Seth & I found out that this guy was actually telling the truth. But – by then -- it was too late then to break that news.

That’s why I say “Ignore those two pieces of early concept art / those thought starters that Josh D’Amaro shared up onstage this past Sunday and celebrate the real news coming out of the Disney Parks, Experiences & Products presentation at this year’s D23 Expo. Which is … We’re getting at least one sequel to Disney’s “Zootopia.”

BCX      

Bandcamp Exclusive Disney Dish Show

The Road to Cars Land – Part Two

Where we left off:

And the Imagineers took the orders they were getting from Disney’s new CEO very seriously. Which is why – a year to the day after “Cars” first opened in theaters (June 9, 2006) – Cars Race Rally opened at Walt Disney Studios Park at Disneyland Paris (on June 9, 2007).

Mind you, Cars Race Rally wasn’t the most elaborate or ambitious attraction to ever be installed at a Disney theme park. Located in the Toon Studios section of Walt Disney Studios Park, this flat ride was a reimagining of Zamperla’s Demolition Derby. Only in this case, this ride’s vehicles that have been rethemed to look as though they were part of the ”Cars” universe.

But just four months after Cars Race Rally would open at Walt Disney Studios Park in Disneyland Paris (on October 17, 2007, to be exact), The Walt Disney Company announced its $1.1 billion redo of Disney California Adventure. This 5-year-long project will be capped off by the creation of a 12-acre area that would basically recreate Radiator Springs in all its glory at the very center of this theme park. Which – it was hoped – would then give Southern Californians a compelling new reason to go visit the Disneyland Resort’s second gate.

Sounds like fun, doesn’t it? So how did we go from an area at DCA that was supposed to have celebrated California’s car culture to a land that then recreated Radiator Springs from Pixar’s original “Cars” movie? We’ll get to that on the second installment of this new Bandcamp Exclusive series, “The Road to Cars Land.”

New stuff: