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Disneyland Forward

Approved by Anaheim City Council last week, after we reported on initial approval a couple of weeks ago.

Mickey’s Not So Scary Halloween Party tickets went on sale 

Tiana’s Bayou Adventure will be open during the party. So that narrows down the opening to before August 9.

Dates are Aug 9 - Oct 31

Disney earnings call

Domestic theme park increases mostly through inflation and higher prices

Cruise business is very solid

Lots of focus on Disney+. Iger specifically said “recommendation engines” twice, which I think is the first time he’s mentioned that. And that’s interesting because for all their analytical expertise, they’re really not great at technology.

Refurbs

BTMRR going down for a year starting in September

Disney confirms Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster will reopen this summer

Last week Disney extended the South Florida Water Management District permit another five years for the area between Fort Wilderness and Wilderness Lodge, where the Reflections Lakeside Lodge was supposed to be built. Jim, we’ve said before on the show that this idea isn’t dead. And while it’s not actively being worked on, this is another sign that Disney wants to keep its options open.

Disney says PO French Quarter will undergo a guest room refurb from now until November.

• The last refurb there was 2018, so this is in line with a regular soft-goods update
  

Speaking of refurbs, if you haven’t seen the Instagram video of Lex, a Universal Studios Hollywood street performer dressed up as a construction worker outside of Fast & Furious?

• He asks guests to hold a tape measure against one of the construction fences, and asks them what number they get on the tape measure. But they’re holding the starting end of the tape measure, so the number is always “1”.

Surveys

Listener Emails

From Dr Elizabeth Burbridge, who has a PhD in medieval history:

Disney Parks’ Instagram account recently tried to jump on the coattails of Taylor Swift’s new Tortured Poets album release by posting a story captioned “Us when we hear there’s a department of poets in Spaceship Earth”. [And it’s a video of someone running into the ride, with scenes from the ride where we hear the audio say “monks toil endlessly, recording books by hand” - len]

Well, my youngest rewatched Mulan, so on a recent trip to EPCOT we did the 360 degree movie in China. Guess who the host is? Tang Dynasty poet Li Bai! They called the monks (who would have been transcribers and illuminators for manuscripts, but not authors) poets, but missed their own actual poet. Well, if you hear that Disney is looking for a historian, let me know.

Len says: Jim, remind me again why we don’t assign reeducation camps for certain cultural offenses?

Christine writes in on our Patreon page with this question from last week’s discussion of the Rivers of Light show at Animal Kingdom:

I’m a new listener and am loving the show. I was curious about your description of the Rivers of Light amphitheater in your 5/6 show. You noted that after a day in the sun, the amphitheater felt like sitting in a clay oven. Is there a difference between the construction of this amphitheater compared to the Fantasmic! one? The F! theater doesn’t seem to suffer the same problem.

Part of why I’m asking is that I’d love for there to be a new (animal-friendly) nighttime spectacular at DAK some day, and I’m curious what operational challenges Disney would need to overcome to make this happen.

Len says: Fantasmic theater faces East (okay, slightly ENE), and the slope of the seats means the top of the theater blocks afternoon sun on the bottom seats, so maybe it has more time to cool off?.

Rivers of Light faces slightly West (WSW and ENE), and the seats are stacked as if they wanted to maximize exposure to the sun. There’s no shade from the western sun either, because they sit on the water.

Peggy writes in with an update about the AAU office at Disney Springs, which was the subject of a recent listener question:

On a recent episode of the Disney Dish (4/29/24, Ep.477) a listener had a question about the AAU using Disney’s former preview center for office space. I don’t know if you have seen the announcement that the AAU is planning to build an event center at the Olympus Sports Campus in Clermont.  

Another Christine had a question about Disney ticket prices:

I have a question about Disney ticket prices at Disney. I was looking at Disneyland tickets for the end of May and I found that one day single park tickets were running at $154/day but two day tickets were $155/day making it $2 cheaper to buy two single day tickets than one two day ticket.  

It's not a big difference but it piqued my interest so I checked in at Disney World and found that not only were tickets much cheaper, averaging $104/ day, but also that the special offers at Disney World offer 4 day tickets for $99/ day and 3 day tickets at $89/day. Meaning that someone who wanted 4 park days would save $20 by buying a  3 day ticket + a one day ticket.

I think that Disney is usually very strategic about their pricing, so what would be the reasoning behind this seemingly counterintuitive pricing scheme? Also, why are Disneyland tickets so much more expensive than Disney World?

Len says: You know, there are few things I like better than Disney ticket arbitrage. Happy I'm not alone here.

The interesting thing about those 3-day WDW tickets is that you have to visit the Studios, Animal Kingdom, and EPCOT one day each.  That is, you don't get into the Magic Kingdom with them, and you can't repeat parks. Also can't use it to park-hop on the same day.

The 4-day ticket is similar in that you get exactly one visit to each park, and you can only visit one park per day. Otherwise it'd be cheaper to buy that ticket versus a 3-day park hopper (retail $554) if you wanted to hop only one day.

The 3-day ticket is most interesting to me because the Studios is part of that ticket, and its ride capacity is not great right now. Rock 'n' Roller Coaster has been down most of the year, so they've only got 8 rides and some shows. And of those 8 rides, one's for small children. So 7 rides for adults. 

The Disneyland tickets are interesting. I checked late two different weeks in the second half of May, and Christine is right in that two one-day tickets are less expensive than one two-day ticket.

The difference is around $22 before tax. I think the only difference in ticket options is that, obviously, two one-day tickets are only good on the specific days you choose. But the second day of a two-day ticket can be used up to two weeks after the first day is used. So you get a little longer to use that second day, and that extra time costs you $22.

The thing is, if your dates are already known, it’s cheaper to buy the two one-day tickets. So that tells me that out-of-state tourists should probably do that.

Research/Patents (use query "disney enterprises".as AND "theme park".ab)

Jim, we haven’t talked about Disney’s theme park patent filings in a while, but here’s a new, interesting one. It’s titled “Entertainment System for a Vehicle”, and it describes how to add external video displays to a ride vehicle so someone inside can see it. And the thing that surprised me in going through the patent is that one of the examples shows an elephant in a safari:

Okay. So everyone thinks that they know the Typhoon Lagoon story. I mean, at first glance, it seems pretty obvious why this water park was built at Walt Disney World.

River Country opens inside of WDW’s Fort Wilderness Campground in June of 1976. This 5-acre complex is immediately enormously popular. But because of where River Country was built (i.e., along the shore of Bay Lake near Cypress Point), it’s both hard to get to AND a site that’s difficult to expand.

But for years, that was the thinking “Disney’s gotta expand River Country. The place sells out virtually every morning. They’re turning customers away daily. Disney’s leaving money on the table.”

But here’s the thing: Back then, leaving money on the table was part of the Disney business plan. Especially when it came to its Florida operation, Mouse House managers wanted to be seen as a good neighbor. More importantly, a great employer. So this was back in the day when most Cast Members worked 40 hour weeks and had great benefits & health insurance.

And Dick Nunis – the then-Head of Disney’s Outdoor Recreation Division – was once quoted as saying “ … When it comes to Orlando, when it comes to those hotels & motels down along 192 in Kissimmee, we’re happy to let nickels & dimes roll off the table and then go into the pockets of the people who operate those facilities. After all, the Guests who stay off-site still come to Disney World and spend their dollars here. So there’s more than enough money here to go around.”

The mid-to-late 1970s were a different time, Len.

Another reason that Walt Disney World didn’t expand River Country at this time? Epcot.

All of the Company’s design & development efforts (More importantly, its financial resources at that time) were focused on getting Disney World’s second gate up out of the ground. No money or time or talent available for the expansion of River Country.

And others took advantage of Disney’s distraction. Take – for example – SeaWorld creator George Millay. He saw how popular River Country was right out of the box and then thought “One of those – a water park, I mean – that was more centrally located, easier for people to get to – would make money hand-over-fist.” So George acquired a piece of property at the corner of International Drive and what’s now known as Universal Boulevard and built the very first Wet ‘n’ Wild. Which opened in March of 1977. Just nine months after River Country first opened in June of 1976.

Just so you know: George Millay was wrong. Wet ‘n’ Wild wasn’t a hit straight out of the box. Largely because (I always thought that this part of the story was hugely ironic) the Summer of 1977 was incredibly rainy. Central Florida saw a record number of thunderstorms that year. Which meant that – for safety reasons – Wet n Wild would have to suddenly shut down and offer its customers tickets to return on another day.

By the Summer of 1978, Central Florida’s weather settled into a more predictable pattern. Wet ‘n’ Wild then hit its stride, became enormously popular with both locals & people visiting Central Florida’s attractions. This water park began making beaucoup bucks.

Over at Disney World … In October of that same year (1978), Card Walker (Who’s only just recently gone from being President of Walt Disney Productions to CEO of the corporation) formally announced that Disney would be going forward with construction of Epcot Center. Ground would break on this 305-acre complex (which would be more than twice the size of Florida’s Magic Kingdom) in October of 1979 with the Park itself slated to open in October of 1982.

Mind you, in order to meet those dates that Walker announced, Disney paid a terrible price. Epcot Center – which was originally supposed to have cost the Company just $400 million to build (Largely because the project’s participants were supposed to have covered two-thirds of Epcot’s overall construction costs) wound up costing Company $1.2 billion. Which left Disney saddled with a crushing amount of debt when Epcot Center finally opened in October of 1982.

To make matters worse, when Disney World’s second gate first opened, it was met with a somewhat underwhelmed reaction from the theme park-going public. I mean, people coming through the turnstiles obviously recognized Epcot’s grand scale & its overall ambition. But – at the same time – these very same people made a point of saying “Well, it’s no Magic Kingdom.”

Which is why – given the middling word-of-mouth Epcot Center was getting – there was a noticeable drop in attendance levels at WDW’s second gate in Year Two of its operations (1983). Wall Street noticed, which then led to a dip in the Disney Company stock price. Which then opened the door to speculators & greenmailers like Ivan Boesky & Saul Steinberg.

Which then led to a chain of events we’ve previously discussed repeatedly here at Disney Dish (So there’s honestly no need for Len & myself to go over that story yet again). The end result was – in Late September of 1984 (Less than two years after Epcot Center first opened) – Michael Eisner was installed as the new CEO of Walt Disney Productions. And the era of Disney priding itself when it came to being a good neighbor in Central Florida, of graciously letting those nickels & dimes roll off the table to the hotels & motels along 192 down in Kissimmee & St. Cloud were over.

Which was understandable. Disney had just come through a bruising, very expensive battle to keep the Company out of the hands of people like Boesky & Steinberg (Who had basically planned on breaking up the Company. Selling the individual elements off to the highest bidder. With the Parks going to one company and the studio & Disney’s film library to another). Investors like the Bass Brothers had stepped up in and – in order to shore up Disney’s finances – had bought large blocks of stock. And the Basses were now looking for strong returns on those investments.

And then – of course – there was still the matter of that huge amount of debt that Disney had found itself saddled with after construction of Phase One of Epcot Center had been completed. So as 1984 gave way to 1985, the whole point of Walt Disney World became to make as much money as possible. More to the point, to make sure that all possible revenue stayed on property. That no money flowed over the berm into other people’s pockets.

Which is why – when word came out of Kissimmee in 1985 that Gary Larson – the owner of Larson’s Lodge (which was one of the largest, most popular privately owned hotels along 192) were planning on spending $5 million on a 72-acre water park that would be just two miles away from WDW property …

(To put that in perspective:  That Wet ‘n’ Wild which George Millay built along International Drive was 18 miles away from Disney property)

… The reaction back in Burbank was “Oh, hell no.”

Which is why – in December of that same year (1985) – The Walt Disney Company announced plans to build a water thrill park (Want to emphasize that description: water thrill park) that they were going to call “Splash!” With an exclamation point at the end.

Part of this story that I love (and is such a strong example of what Michael Eisner was like when he first got to Disney) is the name of this water thrill park: “Splash!”

Why “Splash!” ? Because just prior to Michael’s arrival as Disney’s new CEO, the Studio had had its first hit film in years. Which was Ron Howard’s “Splash,” that romantic fantasy comedy that was released to theaters in March of 1984. To put this in perspective: Disney’s latest hit – prior to “Splash” – had been “The Rescuers.” Which had been released to theaters in June of 1977, nearly seven years earlier.

So Eisner – who’d come to Disney from Paramount (And over at Paramount, if you’d had a hit film [like – say – “Grease” in the Summer of 1978], you immediately ordered up a sequel. Which is how we got “Grease 2” in the Summer of 1982) … Well, to Michael’s way of thinking, because Disney had so few modern films that the general public seemed interested in, the few hits that the Mouse House had now needed to leveraged to the max.

Which is why – when the Imagineers first proposed that the Company build a water thrill park down at Walt Disney World – Eisner suggested at that pitch meeting “Let’s call this project ‘Splash!’ “

And when the Imagineers showed him a model for Disneyland’s first ever flume ride, Michael then volunteered that “ … you know what we should call this thing? Splash Mountain!”

Oh, and before I forget: Because “The Rescuers” had been Disney’s last hit prior to Ron Howard’s “Splash!,” he also ordered that Walt Disney Animation Studios develop a sequel to that June 1977 release. Which is how – in November of 1990 – we got “The Rescuers Down Under.”

Okay. So when news breaks that Disney is planning on building a water thrill park on a site that is deliberately going to be just six miles away from Larson’s Lodge, Gary Larson regroups. He announces in January of 1986 that he’s halving in size what he was initially looking to do with Watermania. It’s now going to be just 36 acres in size and then cost $2.5 million to construct.

This sudden change in plans – the overall scope of this project -- trips up Watermania. It opens briefly in the Summer of 1986. But the general consensus is that Watermania just isn’t ready for primetime. It closes for further construction and then finally officially opens in March of 1987 and is popular with folks staying along 192.

But all eyes are on the construction site that was once going to be home to “Splash!,” Disney World’s water thrill park. Which is now known as Typhoon Lagoon.

Ground officially broke on this 50-acre complex on February 5, 1987 (Please note that Disney is playing hardball here. Deliberately staging the groundbreaking of their 50-acre water thrill park one month before Gary Larson can get his retooled & expanded Watermania open).

Side note: Typhoon Lagoon was supposed to be a half day long experience. As was the Disney-MGM Studio Tour (Not a full theme park). Likewise Pleasure Island.

Thinking here was … Well, two out of three of the new things that the Company was building down in Florida would appeal to visitors who’d previously visited Walt Disney World. So that the Resort would then get these people to tack on an extra day to their next stay at Walt Disney World. And while they were on property … Well, they’d have to eat in Disney’s restaurants. They’d buy merch. They’d need to buy tickets to either Disney-MGM or Typhoon Lagoon. And all of that money would stay in Disney’s pocket / not travel over the berm to the hotels & motels along 192 or down on International Drive.

Weird little bend on this story: For a time, Disney was developing a feature film that would be based on the backstory that the Imagineers had dreamed up for Typhoon Lagoon. With the idea being that this disaster movie (which would show a typhoon laying waste to this formerly pristine tropical paradise) would then give the theme park-going public a clear idea of what an extraordinary place Typhoon Lagoon was. Which is why they’d then really need to visit this water thrill park the next time they were down at Walt Disney World.

Further little weird side bend on this story: So who did Disney hire to write the screenplay for this “Typhoon Lagoon” movie? Gary Wolf, the author of “Who Censored Roger Rabbit” (The 1981 novel that Disney bought the movie rights to while this book was still in galley form. With the hope that “Who Censored Roger Rabbit” could then become Disney’s next big hit film that combined hand-drawn animation like 1946’s “Song of the South,” 1964’s “Mary Poppins” and 1977’s “Pete’s Dragon”).

“Who Framed Roger Rabbit” came out in June of 1988. Huge gamble on Disney’s part. Was supposed to just cost $27 million to make / production costs ballooned to over $40 million. Needed Steven Spielberg’s help to make this movie happen (Spielberg had reached out to Disney’s board of directors in the Summer of 1984 when Eisner was still trying to convince those execs that they should make him the Mouse House’s new CEO. At that time, Steve – who’d worked with Michael on “Raiders of the Lost Ark” & its sequel, “Temple of Doom” – told Disney’s board of directors that if they hired Eisner Spielberg would then start making movies for Disney. “Who Framed Roger Rabbit” was the make-good on that promise).

As soon as “Who Framed Roger Rabbit” became a hit, Eisner – true to form – immediately began making plans for sequels to that Robert Zemekis movie. Not to mention bring Roger Rabbit into the Parks. But to make sure that the Company had all of the necessary ingredients to keep its Roger Rabbit success going, Michael made sure to keep Gary Wolf close by. Which is how he got that “Typhoon Lagoon” development.

Press release announcing this deal came out in the late Summer of 1988. Stated that this forthcoming “Typhoon Lagoon” movie would be  an "unprecedented undertaking whereby a motion picture and a themed attraction… will perfectly complement each other in a unique demonstration of the capabilities of The Walt Disney Company".

Wolf finished the script that Fall (1988). Submitted to Disney. “Typhoon Lagoon” opened in June of 1989 (A month after Disney-MGM). Movie was never made.

Have talked with Gary about this project (He used to live down in Massachusetts. Not sure where Mr. Wolfe is these days). Will have to revisit this. Get him to tell what he thought was the origin story of Typhoon Lagoon.

Meanwhile, WaterMania opened briefly in 1986, formally in March of 1987.