PODCAST TRANSCRIPT - EPISODE 327

TAKING A HUMAN-FIRST APPROACH TO AI WITH KINSEY SODERBERG

Please note: This transcript was created with the assistance of AI technology. While we strive for accuracy, the text may contain errors and should be verified against the original source for critical uses.

Annemie Tonken  00:00

You know that feeling when something seems just a little too shiny or overhyped, so your instinct is to write it off completely. That was me when I first heard about AI, like a lot of creatives, especially, I think the women among us, I had kind of a knee jerk reaction, right? No, thanks. That feels impersonal. It feels inauthentic and it feels maybe a little icky. But what I have come to believe at first, reluctantly and now wholeheartedly, is that when you take a human first approach to AI, it isn't a replacement for your voice or your thoughts or your feelings. It's an amplifier, a clarifier and a time saver that actually gives you more room to show up creatively and strategically, but at least so far, as amazing as AI is, it isn't an off the rack solution, especially if you're looking for something that feels true to you. Today, on the show, I am chatting with my friend Kinsey Soderberg of authentic AI. She is an expert in helping entrepreneurs use AI tools ethically, efficiently and in a way that feels good, which is exactly why I partnered with her to create a brand new tool that we're launching inside the consistency club. This episode is part behind the scenes, part mindset reset and part invitation. Because if you've been curious or even skeptical about how AI might actually help you market your business more consistently, I think this conversation is going to be a game changer. So let's dive in. Welcome to this can't be that hard. My name is Annemie Tonken and I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it, and I can show you how. Kenzie Soderbergh, I am so excited to have you on the show. I'm so excited to talk about what we're gonna be talking about. I say I'm so excited every single time. If there were, like, one of those word clouds in my podcast, I imagine the word excited would show up a lot. But this is true. This is real. It's always true and real. But we have the added layer of excitement, which is that we have co created this amazing thing, and we're just about to launch it, and so I'm just like, super nerding out on the fact that we get to chat about it ahead of time. Welcome to the show. How are you today? My friend,

Kinsey Soderberg  02:36

oh my goodness, I'm so excited, too. Girl, I know, guys, we're gonna have lots of jazz hands over here if you're watching the video this, just because, for sure, it's, it's not only, you know, exciting for me to hop on podcast and just get to nerd out about AI, but the fact that we get to nerd out about your specific system that we just created. Man, this is going to be such a good chat. I can't wait.

Annemie Tonken  03:01

Yeah, and I guess, before we get into that system and everything else, I imagine that there are some people who know you, but you're not specifically in the photography world. So there's, for sure, a lot of people listening who don't know who you are. I intend to change that sooner rather than later, starting today, but I would love for you to just kind of jump in and give us a little bit of a background on who you are, what your expertise is in and what you

Speaker 1  03:26

do, yes, for sure. Hello, my friends. I'm Kinsey Soderbergh, and my brand is authentic AI and we essentially just help down to earth women entrepreneurs use AI tools in your business without sacrificing your authenticity or thought leadership or wasting your time or anything like that. And honestly, I mean, I did not start in AI. I started my business about six years ago, now, originally called feel good social, and I was really helping people show up online in a way that feels authentic and good to you, right? And I focus mostly on authentic branding, genuine marketing, all that jazz. And then about two years ago now, I first started hearing about, you know, the AI phenomenon in the online business, where everyone was like, have you tried chatgpt? I was like, What are you talking about? When? So I was like, oh, cool, this new AI thing is happening. What's this all about? And I like to share this because I think it's kind of relatable to a lot of people, and especially photographers, especially creatives. But guys, when I first heard about AI tools, I like to say I was a total curmudgeon about it, because I was totally like a grumpy grandpa, like shaking my fist at the sky being like, isn't the internet fake enough as it is? What's this going to do to our creativity or critical thinking skills? Is AI gonna take our jobs or take over the world, right? Like all of those AI scaries ran through my brain, and I was like, not into AI, right? And then I actually was on a law. Drive one day, and I had one of those long drive epiphanies where I realized that, okay, AI, tools are here, and instead of being grumpy about them, probably what would be better is if I turn toward them and get curious about, how can we actually use these tools in a way that aligns with us? How can we make these tools work for us, and that's when I just started playing around with AI tools, and I actually pivoted my brand now into our new brand, authentic AI and that's what we fully focus on now. Because guys, I swear, like AI tools can feel really scary, they can feel kind of icky, they can feel a little overwhelming or frustrating, or, Oh man, I have one more thing to learn, right? But I did find that once I started using these tools, and especially figuring out, how could I use these in a way that does feel ethically aligned with myself and how I want to show up in the world without sacrificing my uniqueness of my brand, which is something that's so important to me, like, Okay, I literally have been saving so much freaking time with AI tools. I've actually been, I did the nerdy math, and I've been saving three hours a day, 15 hours a week, and 70 hours a month on average using AI tools in my business for the past year. And man, I've seen like so much more growth than I've ever had before, as well as have found like the freedom that I truly started my business to find in the first place, right? Like, I found wiggle room behind the scenes to, like, start crafting hobbies and like, go rock climbing and actually turn my phone off on the weekends and stuff like that. And like, honestly, AI truly, is one of those things, like, if we can get curious about it and kind of learn how to use it in a way that still feels good to us and doesn't turn our brand into a robot like, man, it is so, so awesome. It truly is our secret weapon. So now that's what I do, and I also help people take their AI to the next level, which is what Annemie and I are going to be talking about today. So can't wait, but that's just a little bit about me,

Annemie Tonken  07:02

amazing. Well, I'm right there with you when I first heard about chatgpt, which actually was from my dad. So, like, my retired dad was like, I was listening to the news the other day, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and he was telling me about it, and I My immediate thought was exactly the same as the first thought that came into my mind, and I remember this like it was yesterday too, a friend of mine were in the back of a cab, or maybe it was an Uber, but I think it was even back in the like, you took a taxi days we're in the back of this cab, and she's like, I got a smartphone. And I was like, Huh, what do you use that for? So my dad starts talking about the chat G P T. It was specifically chat G P T. He was like, you can just ask it anything, and it'll just have a conversation with you about it. And I was like, so it's like, search engine. And you know, we were trying, of course, he didn't really know what he was talking about either, but we went back and forth about it, and my overwhelming feeling was like, Well, what am I going to use that for? And then I had many of the same reservations that you did about like, Oh, great. This is just going to be yet another thing that removes our need for critical thinking. And it, you know, like, essentially disables us to, you know, from doing the things that we do well as humans. So I kind of put it out of my mind for a while. Then I started using it help me code various things and to help me write, like, formulas and stuff, because I was getting into air table. So I was trying to make air table do what I wanted it to do, and I would get stuck, and I was having a hard time. Like, you'd search Google for, you know, how do I do this? And then you'd end up in these long threads, or watching these long YouTube videos, and somebody suggested that. I like, oh, go ask chatgpt. And that was like a total eye opener, because it was able to write these, you know, big formulas and all this other stuff, and allow me to make this other tool do what I wanted it to do. And that really started the ball rolling where I was like, Oh, this actually is super useful when it's when me the human I know what I want, and I know that I could learn how to code a website or write these long formulas like, sure I could. I could spend a lot of time doing that, but that's not actually the goal. The reason that I'm using air table is not to become an air table expert, it's to get the output that I want. And so in that particular instance, letting chat, G, P, T, do the heavy lifting on like coding or whatever, was just a means to an end, a much, much, much faster means to an end, a more efficient means to an end. And once I started thinking about it that way. I then started, like, revisiting some of the prejudices that I had in the beginning. This is the whole I'm like, a super Ted lasso nerd, and I'm like, be curious, not judgmental. And I started thinking like, wow, what if we could have. Have chat GPT learn the things that we wanted it to learn about us and our brand and our whatever, to do the the work in our businesses. That isn't, in my case, photography, that it's not I don't want it to take over that part. That's the part that I'm selling, because it's what I offer. But if it can help me, you know, write emails or do all the other different little things, then that's a good use of AI. But then I was like, Okay, great. Now I have to learn how to do this. And that was where, I mean, I had been working on it, but I was talking to my friend dama, and I was like, I have this idea. I want to build this tool. For years in the consistency club, we've been giving people templates for emails and and social media, and templates work well for those things, but we can't give people templates for blog posts, and blogging is so important. And then once I started thinking about I was like, How can I create an AI based tool to help photographers write blog posts that aren't generic, that are, you know, that put them and their expertise and their opinions and their photos at the forefront, but do it in a way that's a lot faster and easier. And Alma was like, have you talked to Kinsey Soderbergh? And then I set up a meeting with you, and the rest is history. So yeah, so that was a long way of introducing the fact that we then put our minds together and built this tool this past spring and into the summer that we're just about to launch. If you're listening to this, when it drops, you know, we're a week or week and a half out from the summit. You're gonna be speaking at the summit. We'll talk about that later, and if you're listening to it later, then this new blog tool is live and working in the consistency club, and you can come over there and give it a give it a try. Let's take it back to that first conversation. Because I did. I had conversations with several people based on recommendations from different friends. And you know people who are like, oh, you should talk to this person, and this person, and I ended up really gelling with you and your take on AI in general, specifically because you sort of center human Ness at the forefront of everything you do. I mean, your business is called authentic AI, but talk a little bit about that and how you kind of really specialize in helping people figure out how to make AI enhance their voice and their values and all that sort of stuff, rather than just kind of take it over.

Speaker 1  12:35

Yes, totally. That makes me so happy, because exactly like, Okay, guys, so I call this a human first approach to AI tools, and essentially what that means is making sure that you are bringing yourself, your opinions, your values, your personality, your voice, your writing style, all the different things about you to AI first and then allowing your favorite AI tool like chatgpt to expand, clarify, organize, prioritize your ideas so that you are making sure that you're not sacrificing your thought leadership, your uniqueness, the little spark that makes you you right, and honestly, that's how I found to get the best, most authentic on brand results from your AI assistant from the get go, because one of those things I hear from a lot of people, one of those, you know, frustrating complaints, which I get it I've been there too, but they'll go to chat GBT, and they'll be like, write me an Instagram caption, and it'll come back with something that's like, overly professional or weird. And you're like, Oh, can you make this more friendly? And then it comes back with, like, something that's like, jazz hands, like super cheesy and stuff. And you're like, Oh, can you make it more this or make it more that? And you go back and forth with chatgpt, and it feels like you're pulling teeth trying to get what you want. And by the end, you're like, Oh, I wish I could have just done this myself, because it probably would have been faster, right? Like, that is one of those common complaints I hear from people, and believe me, I get it. Because think about it, I like to compare it to a human assistant, right? Imagine you hired a new human assistant for your business, and first day on the job, you know, they walk in the door, they're all excited, and you go write me an Instagram caption, and like that poor little human assistant would be like, like you haven't told them anything about your brand, your customers, your strategy, your content strategy. For that part, you know like they that human assistant doesn't know anything about your brand, so they would try to write you a social media caption, but not knowing any context or instructions or your strategy, they would probably do a pretty crappy job, right? And the same thing goes for your AI assistant, right? So just always remembering to tell your AI assistant, hey, this is my brand. This is who we help. This is what we care about. This is our perspective on our industry and the topics that we share, right? Like telling it all of that stuff first. And then saying, write me a social media caption, and then even giving it details about, I think we should include these tips, or, you know, start with an engaging question, or whatever it is that you want from this tool the end result, like you're saying, like, then that is how it's going to be able to do the best job for you and give you that end result you're looking for, right? And so that's kind of how I teach AI. And that definitely went into then the blog tool that we worked on together for the consistency club, too.

Annemie Tonken  15:30

Yeah, yeah. So I think that one of the things that comes up a lot when I'm talking to other photographers, and I think that this is probably true for creatives in general, probably most women AI has been trained largely. I mean, you know, it knows what's out there, right? So it's got access to a lot of things. But a lot of the stuff that's available for AI to be trained on is pretty male centric, and then it's also looking at like, oh, what's success look like? And so especially when you're asking it to help you with anything marketing related, you end up with this like, Bro marketing crap that almost no photographer I've ever met, male or female is interested in having represent them or their brand, right? So we have this knee jerk reaction, because when we get the more generic output from chatgpt, or, you know, the other AI tools out there, it's like, it has that sort of triggery effect where we're like, ah, that's the opposite of what I want to sound like. But that's not the thing that's important, or the thing that the light bulb moment for me was like, That's not who AI is. AI is, first of all, not who it's not what AI is. It's not what AI represents. AI is just a mirror, right? And it's reflecting what it sees out there is the most pervasive, and I feel like when we train it specifically, not only are we getting better results for ourselves, but, you know, hopefully adding more to the model that is representative of things that are positive and ethical and like coming from a position of service. Again, this is all related to, sort of like the sales and marketing stuff, but, but regardless, the more positive stuff that it receives, I feel like the better it gets in general. So that was a sidebar. Oh

Speaker 1  17:26

yeah. Oh girl. I have statistics for this sort of thing, if you want me

Annemie Tonken  17:29

to share. Oh, well, if you know them off the top of your head, please do I would.

Speaker 1  17:34

Oh no. I'm so glad that you brought this up, because this, for sure, is one of those, like, bigger issues for my brand that I love to share and talk about. It's the fact that actually, men are two times more likely to use the top 50 AI tools than women. There was a study done about two years ago now, but a more recent study is that I think, like 70 something percent of men use the chatgpt app more than women or something, something like that. But essentially, what we need to realize is that often the people using these tools are more masculine leaning than like feminine leaning. And this is an issue because not only if you think about in terms of the workplace and the gender income gap. If more men are using AI tools than women, well, AI tools have been proven to boost your productivity by up to 40% which is like working two extra days per week. So if men are using them more, getting more done, being more productive, who's more likely to get that promotion or that pay raise? Like, really in terms of women's wealth, it's really important that we start getting curious about AI tools. But exactly like you just said, you know, AI tools at this point are trained by the people who are using them, which means that kind of, whatever you're putting into chatgpt that is kind of being swept into the big cloud of data that it's being trained on, which means that if more men are using AI tools than women, men are being swept into that data cloud more than women, their perspectives, their language, their whatever you know, and I always like to say, you know, AI tools really need our feminine energy. They need our empathy. They need our perspective. They need to know what we care about, so that these tools can, these tools can be trained on more diverse data, right? So that the future of these tools are better. And so I really think it's so important that women use AI tools, not just to save time, be more productive, see more success, all that stuff. But also because, actually, when you're using these tools, you're doing quite a bit to shape the future of these tools, which I think is pretty cool, actually,

Annemie Tonken  19:49

yeah, that is cool. And it, I mean, it's one of those, like, when you know better, do better. So AI is, doesn't have judgment about this is better. This is worse. Mm. But when it knows, when it doesn't know something, or when some view or viewpoint is super underrepresented, it underrepresented in its database. How can it reflect anything but what it's been given amazing. Okay, all of that I was I walked into this conversation, I was like, we're gonna talk for three hours, and it's gonna be a problem. I don't have one of those podcasts where people are like, Okay, I'm on a giant road trip, and I'm gonna listen to this one episode. So let's pull it back, even though I totally could keep going, let's pull it back and talk a little bit about the actual tool that we have built. And I would love to kind of get that from your perspective. Do you want to talk a little bit about, like, when we first met, what you like the little lights that went off in your head about what it was that I was trying to put together?

Speaker 1  20:52

Yeah, oh my gosh, for sure. And it was so fun when you reached out. Because I was like, and I love how this project evolved too, because when you did it first came to me, you're like, Hey, okay, I think that I want to create a blog tool of sorts to help my members write blogs that are specific to their business. Because blogs aren't really something that you can templatize very easily, right? And it's one of the hardest, most I don't know, in my opinion, boring things to write, let's be honest, for sure, but it's definitely like that core piece of content that then you can, like, dribble into all the other areas of your content, world and stuff, right? And I was like, cool, that sounds great. Like, what's the most important to you when it comes to what this tool looks like, when it comes to the experience for your members, when it comes to the output that you want to get from the blog tool, right? And what started as what we were going to create, in the beginning, just a custom bot, a custom GPT sort of thing, turned into more. So this like micro tool, where it's kind of like you input all your little fun things, and then it whizzes through the cool little AI automation, and then out pops your perfect for you, done for you blog at the end, which I just think is so much cooler, because one of the things that you that was really important to you was that quality output, right? And when it comes to using chatgpt or a custom bot like we were thinking in the beginning, one of the hardest things to do is to train that bot to understand exactly who your members are on that individual level, right? So we're kind of worried about, okay, if we could just give your members a custom bot of some sort. Well, the output at the end might not be as well, because we can't personalize it so much to each individual member of your consistency claim, which is, then we decided, through all the other things, to turn it into this micro tool. And now we totally Hone like each member's specific strategy. We use that strategy every month to create their blog post, along with their own personal insights when it comes to each individual topic and all that stuff. And then out at the other end pops a blog that, hey, is like 90% there for each of your individual members, which, you know, you got quite a few in the consistency club. So that was one of the things we definitely had to navigate. But man, this cool, this tool is so much cooler than just a cost on GPT. Just got to put that

Annemie Tonken  23:22

out there. Yeah, I agree. I will. And one of the things, and I know I told you this, I had considered just building this on my own, because I had learned about, you know, creating custom gpts and all that sort of stuff, and I had done a handful of them on my own, and I was getting decent results. And I was like, okay, you know, I could probably do this. And I was like, You know what, if I'm going to be doing this that in a way that I'm presenting it to other people to use, like, this is a tool that I'm kind of selling, right? I want it to be as good as possible. I mean, that's how I obviously, I always, we all want to create things that are valuable and are not garbage. And so I was a little I did not yet have enough confidence to just be like, Nope, I'm good. To build this on my own. So I wanted to consult with an expert, work with an expert, and you proved your worth and expertise within like, five minutes of getting started when you were because my initial idea was each month, like the way that each month I sit down and write email templates and Dana sits down and writes social media templates. Every month I will write a blog template and I will teach this custom GPT, like I want you to take the user's input. But here's the basic template that you're going to use this month, right? So each month they would get sort of the prescribed topic or whatever. And you were like, okay, but you have, you know, photographers representing something like 15 different niche specialty areas. They're all over the world. World they are, you know, somebody might be in a sales cycle. Somebody might be in like, you know, I'm I do this, I don't do this. And so one person writing one blog template, it would either need to be so generic that it would kind of work for everybody, or it would be specific such that it would be interesting for some people, but then it wouldn't apply for other people. And your suggestion was, how about instead, we add multiple steps to this process where, by we don't want to leave people with the you know, what do you want to talk about this month? You know, what's your blog post about? So the first step really is, or the second step is that the the tool itself scrapes the web each month, searching for the top ranking search terms in each niche, so it presents SEO focused topics as options. Or you can choose, like the write your own blog adventure, whatever, and then it walks you through the steps to create a blog from scratch. So truly, not one single person's blog is going to be the same as the others. There are some topic ideas out there that might overlap, but I loved the time that you were testing it and you took the same topic. I'm gonna let you tell this part with that, where you were comparing, like, the same inputs for two different posts.

Speaker 1  26:29

Oh, yeah, yeah. I cuz you guys, I tested this topic. It was actually, it was actually so fun to create this tool. And we can get into specifics. Maybe we'll get into more specifics, like later at the summit and stuff. But like, yeah, it was so fun to create this tool because, of course, I had my handy dandy partner, chatgpt, helping me along the whole way. Guys still and chatgpt helped me create three different avatars for autumn, ease, consistency, club members, and they might sound similar to you. I think we had, like, a brand photographer, Lena, I think chatgpt named her. We had a wedding photographer, a family photographer, like I created these different ideal customer profiles, right, so that I could test your tool and oh my gosh, you guys, my chatgpt got so into it. It was like I was waiting for this moment. It came up with the whole backstory for each of these apertures. Anyway. Side note, so when I was testing it was fully method acting. It was, it was, yeah, getting into, like, teenage drama queen or whatever, but yeah, like, so then I started testing the tool, and it was really cool, because I would test, like we had, you know, of course, all of the different trending topics for your 15 different photographer niche categories and stuff. And I was testing the different topics and trying different angles with my all my different customer avatars. And yeah, even when I would fill out the form for the same question, same form for Alina, the brand photographer with the similar topic, the overlapping topic for the family photographer, or something like that, like the output would be so different. And it's because the way we set up your system, with the AI automation, we're making sure that we're not only focusing on, yes, the trending topics for the 15 different categories for this specific month, or whatever it is, but then when we get into the specific topics. We are asking the members individual personalization questions about, what do you think about this topic? What tips would you share? What personal stories or experience might you relate to this? Can you think of a time when you were working with a family and blah, blah, blah happened, right? And so when you share your own personal experiences, and again, that human first way you hit submit, it goes through the crazy AI automation, and out on the other end pops your blog post. It's super personalized to not only your brand voice and your blog strategy, your keywords, but it's also personalized to your specific perspective on that topic, which that's what makes this so genius, right? Is because we're making sure we're systemizing something that, like, in a very, very personalized way. And like, that's what's so cool. And oh my gosh, one of the funniest moments too, was when we were like, Oh, you have some members who aren't, like, generally English speaking members, right? They produce content in different languages and stuff. And we're like, oh, how can we get around this? And so we made one little tweak on the back end, and all of a sudden, I was testing out blog posts in like, German. I was like, I think this is working. Can you ask one of your German members if this sounds good? And they were like, Yeah, this sounds great. So yeah, I just thought that was so cool, too, how customized this experience can be, personalized this experience can be with the help of, like, an AI automated tool, right, right, right?

Annemie Tonken  29:52

Because I know a lot of stuff about photography, but I do not speak German, and so I can't help somebody in that way. And it was pretty a. Amazing. We had two two of our 15 beta testers weren't create content in other languages. Obviously, they also speak English, because they know me and I do everything in English. But they were our first round. We were like, we're not sure what the output is going to be. If they answer all the questions in their native language, then you know what's the output going to be? And initially it was in English, and then I we went back, like behind the behind the back end, and fixed, yeah, I think you ended up changing basically just one line in the instructions, and all of a sudden they were getting output in the same language that they were answering the questions in. And I then followed up with them throughout the rest of the beta testing, and they both said that it was remarkable how it was mimicking their brand voice and all those different things in their native language. It's amazing. This is like, this is where technology, and I know there's a whole other layer of this conversation about, like, the ethics of AI and the environmental impact of AI. I love that the way that you built this really minimizes the AI part. So there's so much less back and forth, so that the you really are, it's like 100% targeted. So I feel like we're efficiently using a tool for good, and that, you know, promoting artists voices has always been the backbone of this business. And I'm just gosh, I am so excited to launch this tool and see not just our 15 beta testers, but hundreds of photographers around the world get to benefit from both from what we've built. So yay,

Speaker 1  31:38

yay. Oh my gosh, it was, it was such a fun build out honestly. And, yeah, I love what you brought up about minimizing the energy usage with this tool, too. For sure, that is totally a thing where the way we set up the automation, yeah, like, there's not frustration going back and forth, which means that you're using up more energy or anything like that. No, we are getting very, very specific with, like, training the tool on your stuff so it's Uber personalized. And the literally, like, first prompt that you send through, it spits out, like, a great blog post for you on the end. And so I'm just so excited for you, for us, for your members. Like, honestly, this has been so fun and like, guy's legit. I mean, I've had my round the block with a lot of AI tools and micro tools and all the stuff. And Annemie, I think that your tool is pretty cool. I know I'm biased, but like, yours has got to be the coolest tool out there so far.

Annemie Tonken  32:37

I love that. I think so too. I really can't, like, wipe the smile off my face when I go in and, you know, play with it, and I've written my own blog posts with it, and it's just incredible. So we are putting this little summit on where we're going to be doing a live demo. There's going to be an option to try it out yourself. Guys register ahead, you will get access to a workbook that's going to allow you to do some pre work that's going to make the summit itself even more valuable. And Kinsey is going to be speaking. You're going to have the opportunity to ask her questions. So show up, show up and come live and come hang out with us and see this new thing. It really is going to be an exciting I think it's going to be like an inflection point for a lot of people in their marketing. So not to oversell it, but when people want to get in touch with you and follow you and check out all of your things, Kinsey, tell them where they can find you and connect

Speaker 1  33:33

with you. Yes, thank you so much, and I am so excited for the summit. So you can find me at my website, DIY, with dot A i is the website, and then I'm at authentic AI for entrepreneurs on Instagram, that's where I hang out. Mostly send me a message. I'll totally answer you, and we can nerd out about AI and the DMS. And then, of course, register for the summit, because I'm going to be speaking, and man, you're going to be doing lots of fun stuff, really talking about how you can actually use this blog tool and create blogs literally, in like, five minutes, less than five minutes, guys, it's so awesome. So make sure you register for the summit and check it out. For sure.

Annemie Tonken  34:14

Love, I will have the link in the show notes. It's this can't be that hard.com/summit, and I'm sure I'm going to say it when I record the intro right after we hang up, so hopefully they've got that by now. I will see you soon, my friend and thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you. That's it for this week's episode of This can't be that hard. I'll be back Same time, same place next week. If you like the show, be sure to check out. This can't be that hard.com. To explore all the resources we have for photographers. And of course, it would mean the world to me if you would leave a review of the show on iTunes or Spotify as always. Thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.