News

• Promote the live show: Sunday, November 14, 2021 you and me.  If you’re in Central Florida, there are just a couple of tickets still available. Visit StorybookDestinations.com for details.
  
• Disney’s announced dates for Club-Level lounges to reopen at some resorts:
  

• Disney's Yacht Club Resort club level will reopen January 20 2022
• Disney's Beach Club Resort club level on January 27 2022
• Disney's Polynesian Village Resort on February 3 2022.
  

• Jim, there’s apparently some unscheduled maintenance going on at the Tower of Terror at Disney’s Hollywood Studios.  Any idea what’s going on there?  Have they finally found those missing guests?

Surveys

From Jeanne, a Disney survey question about park cleanliness:

From Steve Heinemen:

My wife and I recently went on an impromptu trip to Universal Orlando and stayed at Aventura. But we really wanted to go to WDW. So before we went we checked out the Disney World website, looking to put a package together like we have done so many times in the past.

Last week I got an email from Disney asking me to fill out a survey as to why we didn't book with them.

For reference, listeners, Steve’s budget for this just this one trip was around $2,800.  That means he’s probably in the top 20% of American households by income, so he’s in Disney’s target demographic.

First up is a question about why Steve didn’t book a Disney hotel stay:

And then a question about why Steve and his wife didn’t visit Walt Disney World’s theme parks:

From Cara Firestone:

Listener Questions

From Dan Monville:

I was on a bus leaving Epcot and saw a chain-link fenced in area at the edge of the parking lot with a sign on it that said project gamma, what is that?

Jim, is this the festival center / center part of Future World project?

From Joseph Matt, long-time friend of the show:

On a recent show you stated the most recently built original concept Universal attraction is Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit. While this is true in the States, the Lights! Camera! Action! hosted by Stephen Spielberg opened with the Universal Studios Singapore park in 2011.

Jim, on last week’s show we talked about how Disney’s updating its views of space exploration, now that space tourism is here.  And we wondered about two things: whether you could get satellite radio on board a rocket ship; and what happens if you’re in a car going nearly the speed of light, and turn on your headlights.

In what should be described only as a complete lack of surprise, our listeners actually know the answers to these questions.  First up is an email from Melissa Erwin, who’s a systems engineer for an aerospace company whose name rhymes with “Froeing”.  Melissa says:

Len, as long as you are in the Sirius satellite field of view, you should be able receive satellite radio. The satellite is in a higher orbit than commercialized space travel.   I fly satellites for fun and get paid.

Thank you, Melissa. It makes me sleep better at night knowing that I could be in orbit and still listen to the dulcet tones of Richard Blade on First Wave.

And from Brian Babcock, who writes in to say:

If you are driving at the speed of light and you turn on your headlights, the headlights will work as they normally do.  This is because the speed of light is constant for any inertial observer. Normally if you are standing next to a freeway and you see a car drive by at 60mph it will look like it's going 60mph, but if you are driving along the freeway at 40 mph and get passed by a car going 60 mph that car will appear to be going 20mph.

This is possible because, as Einstein’s theory of Special Relativity indicates, time slows down the faster you travel.  That squishes everything along the axis of travel, too, and that’s the thing that makes light appear to move at the same speed relative to you.

I note here that Brian provided another example that involved more math and bigger numbers that became complicated once I made this morning’s batch of mimosas.  What I got out of it is that Einstein showed speed is relative, and thus everything in the universe became morally permissible, and that’s why we have people wearing socks with sandals.  The universe makes the connections here, folks, I just explain them.

Dining Notes

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad feature piece

Today (November 8th) is a pretty significant date for thrill ride fans. It was on this day 41 years ago that the WDW version of Big Thunder Mountain Railroad first opened to the public.

Mind you, this wasn’t the first version of Big Thunder. The first version opened at Disneyland Park in Anaheim some 14 months earlier (on September 2, 1979 to be exact). And people who rode on WDW’s version of Big Thunder back on November 15, 1980 didn’t get a whole lot of hoopla. That came a week later when this new Frontierland attraction held its really-for-real grand opening. That’s when there were balloons & banners & a band.

Looking back over the history of this thrill ride, there’s a lot of stories Len & Drew & I can tell. One of my favorites dates back five years or so. That’s when a major medical journal (The Journal of the American Osteopathic Association. Just in case you were wondering) published its findings. Which stated that -- if you were troubled by kidney stones and were willing to ride the WDW’s version of Big Thunder upwards of 20 times … Well, Guests who did this -- 70% of the time -- then passed said kidney stones.

This paper was published back in October of 2016. Do you want to share its title, Len? You’re far better at pronouncing medical terminology than I am:

LEN: “Validation of a Functional Pyelocalyceal Renal Model for the Evaluation of Renal Calculi Passage While Riding a Roller Coaster" by Mark Mitchell and David Wartinger.   I think I saw Bradley Cooper in this off-off-Broadway.

That sounds like quite the page turner. Want to stress here that the team of medical professionals behind this paper did their due diligence. They also sent patients with kidney stones over to Tomorrowland to ride WDW’s version of Space Mountain. Likewise over to the Studio to ride Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster starring Aerosmith. Repeated rides on those coasters didn’t dislodge any kidney stones.

The people behind this paper also pointed out that there were a number of factors that contributed to a patient’s rate of success when it came to passing kidney stones after repeated rides on Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. These include which row of the train that patient sat in. Also which side of the train they were seated on.  (Apparently the back row is where you want to sit.)

Having suffered from kidney stones in the past (over 20 years ago) and remembering what a genuinely miserable experience that was … I have to say … I have questions. Did they make these poor people ride Big Thunder Mountain Railroad 20 times in a row? Or was it 20 times over the course of their vacation? And if so … Well, who the hell goes to Walt Disney World on vacation when they’ve got kidney stones? I could barely walk across a room when I had kidney stones. Let alone hop on a plane and fly down to Orlando.

Okay. Enough about urinary tract-related tales. I’m here to talk about the time that “Big Thunder Mountain Railroad” almost became a TV series on ABC. And Drew’s then going to tell you about the retheming project that WDI had in the works that then (possibly) derailed this production.

Okay. It’s 9 years ago (i.e., the Fall of 2012). “Once Upon a Time” -- that fantasy adventure drama which featured characters from many Disney animated film -- had debuted the previous season on ABC (on October 23, 2011 to be exact) and had already to be a huge hit. Almost as big as “Lost. ” Which had run on ABC from September 22, 2004, to May 23, 2010.

And executives at ABC were now thinking … “Lost” was popular. “Once Upon a Time” is popular. Would it now be possible to come up with a concept for a TV show that had “Lost” ‘s sort of overarching mystery with some supernatural elements that then also included some well-known Disney characters?

It was at this point that someone in development at the network asked an important question: What if -- instead of Disney characters -- this new show for ABC was set in the world of a well-known Disney theme park attraction?

It was nine years ago this week (on November 13, 2012) that the trades announced that Jason Fuchs (the writer of the screenplay for the fourth film in the “Ice Age” franchise, “Continental Drift.” Which had just been released to theaters a few months earlier. On July 13th of that same year) had been hired to write the pilot of a TV show that was to be called “Big Thunder Mountain.”

What’s more, Chris Morgan -- who’s now written six of the “Fast & the Furious” films along with one of their spin-offs, “Hobbs & Shaw” -- was attached to supervise and executive produce this prospective new series for ABC.

So Fuchs & Morgan go off and craft a script for the pilot of “Big Thunder Mountain.” Here’s the story of that show (as was reported in the trades in the late Winter / early Spring of 2013):

There's gold in the hills of Big Thunder Mountain, deep in the Wyoming Territory of 1890. Enough gold to make King Midas jealous.

There's something else at Big Thunder too. Something otherworldly.

Local legend holds that the mountain has been cursed by the Apache since a notorious mining accident at this western outpost some 30 years ago.

About as far from the splendor of the wild west as one can get, widower Dr. Grant Carson lives with his 17-year-old daughter Nora and young son Jack on the crowded lower east side of Manhattan.

Son Jack suffers from a frightening respiratory illness for which Grant Carson strives to find a cure.

The family's life will suddenly change when Grant gets an offer to move to the mining town of Big Thunder because they need a doctor and are willing to pay any price.

Lured by the promise of a better life, the Carsons -- accompanied by Grant's dead wife's sister, Lizzie -- set out on a frontier adventure and meet the mysterious benefactor who brought them there: Abel White (who founded his fortune on the riches that were hauled out of that mine that dug down deep into the earth under Big Thunder Mountain).

But there is something about this Eden on the edge of civilization and something about Abel White -supernatural forces are at work and Doctor Carson’s son Jack seems to be a conduit for said forces.

Together the family will uncover the mysteries, dangers and unspoken secrets of the haunted mountain: Big Thunder.

This pitch ended with the following statement:

This exciting mystery adventure loosely based on the Disneyland ride Big Thunder Mountain.

Executives at ABC love the pilot script that Fuchs & Morgan came up with. So in January of 2013 they greenlit production of this possible addition to that network’s next season.

And Disney clearly wanted “Big Thunder Mountain” to succeed. They hired Melissa Rosenberg -- the writer of the “Twilight” movie series -- to serve as the showrunner on this mystery adventure show.  

Irish actor Ed MacLiam (Best known for his work on “EastEnders”) was cast as Dr. Grant Carson.

Pierce Gagnon (who had previously appeared on “One Tree Hill”) was cast as Dr. Carson’s sickly son, Jack.

I want to share a little bit of the character description that Fuchs & Morgan came up with for Jack Carson’s character because it sheds a bit more light on the sort of show “Big Thunder Mountain” was going to be. Where the storyline of this mystery adventure was potentially going to go.

A 19th century New York doctor and his family relocate to a frontier mining town run by a powerful, but mysterious tycoon.

Gagnon will play Jack, the terminally ill nephew of the show’s central couple. Sweet, but chafing under the constraints of his respiratory illness, Jack later seems to flourish once he’s actually out in the wild west. Soon a healthy, energetic child, Jack’s also a talented artist, who has been drawing what he sees in his dreams. Curious, yet ominous depictions of places and events in Big Thunder.

Gotta say. With the experienced professionals who were involved in this project, coupled with the storyline of the pilot and the path that was then laid out for the continuing “Big Thunder Mountain” series to follow … This mystery adventure sounds like a winner to me.

Executive producer Melissa Rosenberg -- when she was interviewed in early 2013 -- described “Big Thunder Mountain” as a high concept show that was really fun. The sort of TV series that -- thanks to its setting in an 1890s mining town that had an element of magic & mystery to it -- would be the perfect thing for the family to sit down & watch together at 8 p.m. on a Sunday night.

So the pilot of “Big Thunder Mountain” was shot in late March / early April of that year. That show was then edited together and temporary music & FX were added to this footage (To give executives at ABC an idea of what the finished product might look like).

And then -- on May 13, 2013 -- it was announced in the trades that officials at ABC had passed on “Big Thunder Mountain.” That this TV series would not be part of that network’s line-up for its 2013 - 2014 season.

So what happened here? Did the pilot that Melissa Rosenberg put together ultimately not deliver on the promise of “Big Thunder Mountain” ‘s premise? Perhaps. But in the days since ABC executives walked away from this show idea, I’ve heard that there were other factors involved in Disney’s decision not to go forward with a “Big Thunder Mountain” TV show.

And one of those reasons reportedly was … Well, that the Disney Parks were looking to do something else with Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. Which was tie this thrill ride to what was sure-to-be the Studio’s next blockbuster, “The Lone Ranger.” Which was due to arrive in theaters in just two months time. July 3, 2013 to be exact.

You have to remember that the Parks were now well aware of what happened when you folded IP from a hot film franchise into an already existing theme park attraction. After all, animatronic versions of Jack Sparrow & Captain Barbossa had been added to the two stateside versions of “Pirates of the Caribbean.” (This was done in July of 2006, just as the second “Pirates of the Caribbean” movie -- “Dead Man’s Chest” -- was arriving in theaters). And an already popular attraction suddenly hugely popular -- with lines out the door full of people who now wanted to see the animatronic versions of Sparrow & Barbossa up-close.

And the Imagineers … They wanted to duplicate that phenomenon. Take an already-popular attraction and turn it into a must-see by adding some IP.

So how exactly were they looking to do this with Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and the characters from Disney’s version of “The Lone Ranger”?

Drew explains where the animatronic characters were going to be placed. What show elements from the film were going to be folded in.

Disney obviously had high hopes for “The Lone Ranger.” They had visions of this project becoming the Studio’s next big franchise a la “Pirates of the Caribbean.”  

If you look at the credits for “The Lone Ranger,” there is very much an aspect to this project where they getting the band that made the first three “Pirates” movies back together.

    • Director Gore Verbinski

    • Screenwriters Ted Elliot & Terry Rossio

    • Producer Jerry Bruckheimer

    • Composer Hans Zimmer

    • Star Johnny Depp

Studio spent a reported $225 - $250 million on this movie. “The Lone Ranger” comes out on July 3, 2013 and seriously under-performs at the box office. This Gore Verbinski film only sells $89 million worth of tickets in North America, an $171 million overseas. Its total worldwide box office total is $260.5 million. Which means that Disney’s “Lone Ranger” barely covered its production & promotional costs. Let alone turning a profit for the Studio.

And since Disney rarely celebrates films that flopped in its theme parks, WDI’s idea of adding the “Lone Ranger” characters & elements of that Gore Verbinski film to Big Thunder Mountain Railroad were quietly abandoned.

In the end, it was probably a good thing that the Imagineers didn’t add stuff from Disney’s “Lone Ranger” movie to Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. In much the same way that Johnny Depp’s troubles have now stalled out the Studio’s recent effort to continue the “Pirates of the Caribbean” film franchise … Well, Armie Hammer (i.e., the handsome actor who played the title role in Disney’s “The Lone Ranger”) has also had more than his share of bad publicity lately.

Which would have probably led to kids asking their parents some difficult questions as they were exiting that thrill ride.

CHILD: Dad, wasn’t that an AA figure of the guy who said that he was 100% a cannibal. Who also said that he wanted to eat his girlfriend.

MOTHER: Stop bothering your father. You know he’s suffering from kidney stones.