The Road Home to You Podcast

"What is Love?"

Season 2, Episode 3

(Originally aired Sept. 18, 2018)


love, feelings, definition, relationship, define, couples, people, sex, spouse, popular culture

Brandy Goebel 00:19

Hi. Welcome to The Road Home to You. I'm Brandy Goebel, joined by my husband, Matt. We'd like to invite you to join us as we have real conversations about truth, grace, and living out our Christian faith.

If you have a messy past, struggle with the idea of being the perfect Christian, or are simply curious about just what Christianity is, you're at the right place.

Listen, we don't claim to have all the answers. But we're excited to have real conversations

that deal with topics that matter. So grab a drink, buckle up, and let's head on down that

Long Road Home.

Hey, Mr. Matt. Good morning to you.

Matt Goebel 01:06

Good morning to you. Brandy.

Brandy Goebel 01:08

How are you doing today?

Matt Goebel 01:09

You know, I'm doing a little bit better now. It took me a while to kind of wake up and get

moving. I just was in a bit of a fog this morning.

Brandy Goebel 01:17

You know, that's the way I live my life.

Matt Goebel 01:20

Oh, well. There we go. Now I know what that's like.

Brandy Goebel 01:22

It's all good. Um, yeah, actually, you just reminded me that I forgot to take my unfog your brain medicine this morning.

Matt Goebel 01:30

Oh, so we're gonna have a foggy podcast.

Brandy Goebel 01:33

This could be interesting.

Matt Goebel 01:34

A fogcast.

Brandy Goebel 01:38

That was a terrible joke.

Matt Goebel 01:40


Brandy Goebel 01:42

You're so cute. So this morning. Here we are. We are going to talk about... I think it's gonna be another two part series. Yeah?

Matt Goebel 01:51

Well, I hadn't planned on that. But I suppose it might turn into that if we end up running a little long. Yeah, we might have to turn it into a two parter.

Brandy Goebel 01:59

Maybe three parts? Let's just go for the gold and go for a five-parter.

Matt Goebel 02:03

Oh, let's not.

Brandy Goebel 02:04

Okay, let's not. But today we're going to be talking about what is love, yeah?

Matt Goebel 02:09


Brandy Goebel 02:10

Kind of the biblical definition of love versus the world definition of love. Correct?

Matt Goebel 02:15

Yeah. You know, as I look around at popular culture, and things like that, it just, it gets

frustrating that love gets turned into something it was never intended to be. And I think as much as we try to avoid it, I think it seeps into our thinking on the subject. And it affects how we approach relationships, how we approach our relationship with God, so many things in our in our day to day experience.

So I'd like to try to kind of untangle that and get people to really consider, okay, when I say I love you, what do I really mean, and what does that really look like?

Brandy Goebel 02:56

Right. Yeah, you know, it's funny, because I remember when I was in middle school, I think, yeah, middle school, I was dating a boy. You know, I mean, how much are you dating, really? In the 7th grade? But we were boyfriend and girlfriend, and we talked every single night on the phone. For like hours. It was weird. He was one of those like, really

Matt Goebel 03:23

Chatty guys?

Brandy Goebel 03:24

Yeah, yeah. Super social guys. And actually wanted to know how I felt. It was so strange. But anyway, he at one point said, I love you. Like, as we were ending the conversation. I was like, Okay!

Matt Goebel 03:42

Because what do you say that?

Brandy Goebel 03:44

He was like, do you want to say it back? And I was like, nope. And he's like, why not?

Matt Goebel 03:52

You broke his middle school heart.

Brandy Goebel 03:54

I mean, I didn't actually. But I told him, I said, "Listen, I really, really like you. And maybe I

love you. I don't know. But I'm 12. So I'm not comfortable saying that I love you just yet. Give me time. It might happen." Who knows?

It never did. But what was neat about that, is that he said, "Can I can I keep saying it to you?" And I said, "Well, yeah, but don't be offended if I don't say it back." And he's like, "that's fine." So every night he would end the phone call, "I love you." I'd be like, "Okay, goodnight." But I mean, I really liked him a lot. But even at the time, I knew, this is not the guy I'm probably gonna marry. I like him. He's cute. But like, we hadn't even kissed. I don't know if I love you.

So anyway, I just thought that was a funny thing. But so today, for today's topic, you're going to be taking the lead on this. I'm going to just kind of be sitting back and responding, as I see fit.

Matt Goebel 05:06

We'll see how that goes. I'm not usually the chatty one.

Brandy Goebel 05:12

And I usually am. So it's possible that I will take us off on some rabbit trails, but I'll do my

best not to.

Matt Goebel 05:19

Fair enough. We'll do what we can.

Brandy Goebel 05:22

So with that, I'll let you get into it.

Matt Goebel 05:24

Yeah. So first, I think it's important to really consider what the popular culture has to say

about love. And you can look around the internet and you can find all kinds of different

definitions of love. But I think when I looked at the Wikipedia definition, I think that comes fairly close to just kind of the common understanding of it. So just a second here, and I'll pull that up.

"Love encompasses a variety of strong and positive emotional and mental states

ranging, from the most sublime virtue or good habit, the deepest interpersonal affection, and to the simplest pleasure. Most commonly," and this is kind of where I think most people end up landing on it, "Most commonly, love refers to a feeling of strong attraction, and emotional attachment."

Brandy Goebel 06:20

So really, pretty much their whole definition is based off of feeling. It's all very feeling


Matt Goebel 06:28

Yeah. And, you know, if you look at movies, music, books, you name it, any sort of whatever media you listen to, that is an outlet for the popular culture, that is how love is typically defined. And I think that causes a problem. I think that's why you end up hearing of relationships falling apart, and people saying, well, we fell out of love.

 And as we'll get into it a little bit later, according to say, a more biblical definition of what love is, and I think a more sensible definition of what love is, you don't fall out of love. That just doesn't happen. Now, in a relationship, it's just the natural progression of things, emotions will change and fade over time.

That initial attraction, you know, you get the heart beating really hard and fast. You get the butterflies in the stomach, and you get all the nerves and things like that. And just the excitement, the endorphins, all of that stuff that just wraps up in that initial surge when you start a relationship, but that's not love. That's attraction, or passion or maybe even lust, you know. It's, all of those things. It's, those feelings, but that's not love.

Brandy Goebel 08:03

Well, if that were the... if our feelings were the primary dictate or definition of love, then, man, our love would fluctuate on a daily and sometimes hourly basis.

Matt Goebel 08:16

Oh, yeah.

Brandy Goebel 08:17

Even with your own kids.

Matt Goebel 08:19

Yeah, you step on a Lego barefoot and all of a sudden, you don't love your kids anymore.

Brandy Goebel 08:25

Or they're in the backseat of the car, screaming and fighting and you're on a 10 hour road trip and you're on hour one.

Matt Goebel 08:32

Love is gone.

Brandy Goebel 08:32

Love is gone.

Matt Goebel 08:33

You may as well just ditch them on the side of the road.

Brandy Goebel 08:36

Push them out now. Love is over.

Matt Goebel 08:40

Sorry, kids. I've fallen out of love with you.

Brandy Goebel 08:47

I used to love you, my sweet, dear children. But today, I don't have any coffee. My love is

dead. That'd be terrible.

Matt Goebel 08:58

Yeah, you just see these little puppy dog eyed kids on the side on the side of the road.

Brandy Goebel 09:03

Oh, no! Children everywhere would be abandoned.

Matt Goebel 09:05

Yeah. Left and right.

Brandy Goebel 09:06

It's horrible enough that so many are anyway. But if it was all based on the feeling of love, none of us would have parents left. I mean, seriously.

Matt Goebel 09:18

No, we would have driven them all away.

Brandy Goebel 09:21

So. Okay. So if our feelings aren't love?

Matt Goebel 09:24

The other way that I think the world gets it wrong is it equates love and sex. And that

happens a lot. You know, you hear that a lot in music. Especially in music. Love gets used as a euphemism for sex. And it's just not. If love and sex were the same thing, then there would be all kinds of love relationships happening where they shouldn't happen. Every prostitute or whatever, would just love hundreds of people. And that's just not true.

We know that love and sex are two separate things. Now, I believe that sex is really only fantastic when it's in a loving relationship, you know, as God intended.

Brandy Goebel 10:15

Well, okay, but now let me caveat that because, to be fair, sex can be super fantastic, even outside of a loving relationship. But there's a there's a depth to the intimacy that you can't...

Matt Goebel 10:31

Well, that's just it. It can be fun. It can be exciting. It can be a lot of things

Brandy Goebel 10:35

It can be very physically pleasurable, but there's that richness...

Matt Goebel 10:38

It doesn't have the depth. Yeah, absolutely. And then you can have 'this' and 'that.'

Brandy Goebel 10:46

As Seinfeld would say.

Matt Goebel 10:47

Yes, that was a Seinfeld reference.

Brandy Goebel 10:49

I thought that was a Seinfeld reference. Man, I'm smart.

Matt Goebel 10:54

So yeah, I kind of think those are the two major pitfalls that the popular culture falls into

when it's defining love. I think if people fall into those traps, it's really going to make holding on to a relationship, boy, I want to say almost impossible, because those feelings do change. And love and sex are not the same thing.

When you start... when you sit down, and you have a quiet moment, and you're examining your relationship after you've been married for a couple of years, and those feelings have started to fade and maybe the sex is a bit more routine, and all of those things, all of a sudden, it looks like oh, well, maybe I just don't love this person anymore. And you start chasing that feeling again, and you start looking outside of the marriage. And next thing you know, it's over and done and you're jumping on to the next thing chasing that feeling.

Brandy Goebel 11:52

I think that proves to be especially difficult for couples that are having kids. Especially when it comes to relating the feelings of passion and sexual intimacy kind of equating that with your love.

Because whether sex is becoming a routine or if it's just that you have little kids under your roof and you're exhausted or you're just frazzled or they're sharing the bed with you or whatever. You know for whatever reason a lot of times couples with young kids - and beyond - their sex life changes. So if you're looking for that kind of fulfillment through the context of sex you're gonna wind up disappointed and really start second guessing the depth of love that your relationship holds.

Matt Goebel 12:43

Yeah, absolutely. And I think part of that is honestly tied to the fact that our language has one word for love. We use love to mean a lot of different things. You can really love those potato chips or those gummy bears, in my case.

Brandy Goebel 13:03

And we both do.

Matt Goebel 13:04

Oh yes. But you wouldn't use that same sort of meaning to describe your love for your kids or your spouse or what have you.

Brandy Goebel 13:15

I don't know though. You might love the gummy bears as much as you love the kids. That is possibly true. There is a devotion there is unparalleled, Matt.

Matt Goebel 13:27

Those are really good gummy bears, but maybe not quite that good.

Anyway, I think other cultures have gotten it a little bit better in that they define love with different words. They have different words to describe different types of love. The Greeks had at least five different words for love. Asian cultures have different words for different kinds of love. It's just English, that just kind of gets it wrong. I think that kind of muddies the waters when you start talking about love and people's conception of it.

Because our perception of our reality is shaped by the words that we use to define it. So, if we only have one word for love, and we use it to mean a lot of different things, it gets all confused in people's heads.

Brandy Goebel 14:24

You know, I find it interesting because I've heard people talk about this since I was a little kid about how insufficient the English language is in conveying the different forms of love. And yet, nobody's come up with...

Matt Goebel 14:40

A common agreement on, okay, well, now we're going to use this word to describe this. Yeah, cuz how do you change that? To take that and turn it into common usage is too big a task, I think.

Brandy Goebel 14:54

I think we all need to take a lesson from the book Frickle. No, that's not what it was called.

Matt Goebel 14:59


Brandy Goebel 14:59


Matt Goebel 15:00

yes. You were thinking of frickles because you love frickles.

Brandy Goebel 15:05

I do. Fried pickles. Yum, yum. Yes. Frindle. Because he got a word, he created a word.

Matt Goebel 15:12

Yeah. And as far as like regional slang, you can certainly have an effect on things, a song,

whatever. There's any number of things that creep into the language. But to actually change the English language on a mass scale is a different task.

At any rate, I think that's one area where our culture gets it wrong is in just defining love in the one way. So when couples, when they start throwing the love word around, okay, well, how do you mean that? What does that mean to you? A lot of times, it's one of those undefined unspoken things that you don't think about until it causes a problem. As we've talked about before, on this podcast, there's some of those unspoken understandings that we think are common, and yet you get into a relationship and find out, oh, well, this person means something different when they say that.

Brandy Goebel 16:19

It's just like the the use of the word toboggan. For certain cultures or regions, it's a hat.

Matt Goebel 16:26

Interesting. I've never heard that.

Brandy Goebel 16:28

Yeah. For others of us, it's a sled. You know, same word, same exact spelling, same

everything, but very different meanings.

Matt Goebel 16:39

I don't know, though. Because if you use a toboggan as a sled, you're going to end up on

your head. And so, you know, the two might very well have...

Brandy Goebel 16:50

So you think they correlate?

Matt Goebel 16:51


Brandy Goebel 16:52

Okay. Fair, fair.

Matt Goebel 16:57

So next, you know, you want to kind of take look at, okay, where do we get our ideas on love from. And we've already talked about some of those. We've talked about movies, music, books, media, things like that.

But then we also have the bulk of our understanding of love, I believe, comes from our experience, comes from the family that we grew up in. What did our parents mean, when they said, I love you?

Now, worst case scenario, maybe you're growing up in an abusive home, and your dad says, he loves you but then he also beats you. Is that really what love looks like? You know, it gets all tangled up in a person's mind.

Brandy Goebel 17:40

Well, and then the dynamic, too, of a parent saying, I love you to their child, and also saying, I love you to their spouse. But one of those relationships is abusive, and the other is not. So then it's, okay, some love is abusive, but some love isn't; what distinguishes between between the two?

Matt Goebel 18:00

Yeah, and of course, a child doesn't necessarily recognize, oh, that's abusive behavior. They use the word love, and then they're demeaning to their spouse or whatever. And so well, that's what love looks like.

I think trying to untangle people's understanding of love gets really, really difficult. And so if we don't have some sort of outside truth, outside perspective, on what love is, and a different understanding of what love is, it's going to be all muddled up with all of these things. It's going to have all of the various cultural input, that's mostly wrong. And it's going to be tangled up with whatever good or bad experiences we've had in our lives, trying to define what love is.

It's not any wonder that people are confused, trying to define what love is. And that's why when you look on the internet, for a definition of love, you get 100 different definitions. At least.

So let's take a look. What are what are some of the results of a poor or a tangled up definition of love? And obviously, the one that we've already touched on is divorce. People go into a marriage with different ideas of what love is, and if they're defining it as a feeling and then those feelings go away, well, I guess I don't love my spouse anymore. I guess I better find that somebody that I'm going to have those feelings for the rest of my life.

Brandy Goebel 19:36

Which is a fallacy.

Matt Goebel 19:39

It really, really is. And I think that's where movies just do such a disservice. Because they

really promote that idea that I'm going to be looking for this person that's going to make

me feel this way for the rest of my life, and we'll live happily ever after, every day will be an adventure and, and we'll be infatuated with each other every day. And nothing will be


Brandy Goebel 20:02

Well, even if you take that idea out of it, that every day is going to be happy and there's

never going to be a problem, but you just you just hold on to the idea that these feelings are always going to stay fresh, and alive and intoxicating, you're setting yourself up for failure, because you can only stay on your honeymoon for so long. And once you set into a routine, and you have the daily grind of going to work, and paying the bills and doing the laundry and taking care of kids not to even mention the fact that as you age, you as an individual are growing and changing. And so is your spouse.

So the person that you married is not going to be the same person that you're married to 5 or 10 or 25 years down. They're going to be different. It might not be a significant difference. It shouldn't be like a complete personality change. But there's going to be some change at least. And if you're counting on everything to just stay in that consistent feel good space, man, you're setting yourself up for disappointment and outright failure.

Matt Goebel 21:26

Absolutely. And we also have touched on some of the other potential bad results of a poor definition of love. I think a continuing cycle of abuse is one. And we touched on that. If you grow up with abuse being mixed in with your definition of what love looks like, it's going to be tough to not continue some of those bad habits. Because it's going to be built into how you understand relationships.

And I think also a poor definition of love leads to, and I think this is maybe the core problem, is it leads to a selfish focus. Because if you're defining love as a feeling, then you're always going to be looking to, Okay, how does this make me feel? And if this person doesn't make me feel a certain way, well then that's a problem, because now that falls outside my definition of love.

So if you're focused on how you feel about a certain thing, one, it puts all the focus on yourself, like this person has to continue to do whatever it is to make me feel a certain way or else I don't love them.

Brandy Goebel 22:41

Well, it also sets you up for a completely codependent relationship in that, "I only feel good if you feel good. You should do everything you can to make me feel good, so that you'll feel good." And it's just all this super tangled web of feelings feeding feelings.

Matt Goebel 23:02

And mixed up motivations.

Brandy Goebel 23:04

Yeah it becomes really manipulative and underhanded and gross.

Matt Goebel 23:10

You know, I think that's why we see so much popular culture when you see long term relationships, long term marriages and things like, it's often defined by that sort of bickering men versus women, in-fighting kind of thing. Because they have a selfish definition of love.This person is supposed to make me feel a certain way.

Brandy Goebel 23:38


Matt Goebel 23:39

Okay. So we've talked about all the ways that it goes wrong. So we need to try to untangle things and get an outside perspective, a perspective that's beyond our feelings, beyond ourselves, beyond human experience, and really search for the truth of what love is supposed to be.

And in my mind, the place to go, of course, is God's word and find out what does God have to say about love? How does God define love? And the Bible, if you were to look up in the index and look at the word love, you're gonna find pages of stuff. I mean, it's all over the place. It's throughout the whole Bible. The word love is just inundated in there.

But as far as a definition, looking at, okay, how does God define love? I think one of the

better ones is probably the one that's most familiar to people. First Corinthians chapter 13. So we'll take a quick look at that.

First Corinthians chapter 13. And the definition part of it starts in verse four. It says, "Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy it does not boast." Alright, so already it's it's kind of getting a little bit difficult for people to live out. And that's one thing I want to point out is that this definition is a perfected view of love.

This is how God loves us. This is a very godly love. Humanity, at least in its fallen state in this existence, is not going to be able to fully live out this definition. But if we have it there as an example, as something to strive for something to to have as the ultimate example...

Brandy Goebel 25:37

It's our plumb line.

Matt Goebel 25:38

Absolutely. So "Love is patient. Love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast. It is not

proud. It is not rude, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of

wrongs." And boy, that one is tough. You know, to be able to let go of all of those little things in life. "It keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails."

And there you have it. I mean, that last line, Love never fails. You don't fall out of love, you can choose to stop loving somebody. You can choose to stop putting that other person's needs before your own. You can choose all of those things. But it's not about a feeling. True love, love the way it's meant to be, never fails.

Brandy Goebel 26:48

Well, and everything in there, I'm trying to think if I'm missing something, but it seems to me like everything in that list of what love is, is pertinent to action. It's not - none of it is emotionally based.

It's all you have to choose not to boast. You have to choose to be kind, you have to choose to exude trust, you're, you're putting forth these qualities, you're having to take some kind of action. That's a call to action.

Matt Goebel 27:27

Absolutely, absolutely. And not only is love a difficult choice, a daily choice that we have to make, but I think sections of this writing here on love also point to the supremacy of love.

At the end of this section, it starts talking about how the things of this life are going to pass away. And so many things, things like prophecy and teaching and writings they're all going to pass away. But it says at the end of it all, these three remain faith, hope and love. And the greatest of those, it says, is love. Which is fascinating.

Because again, and again, it talks about the importance of faith. And you know, we're saved by faith in Christ. Christ did miracles or occasionally had to work a little bit harder to do a miracle because of faith, or a lack of faith. In this same section, it says you can have faith that can move mountains, but if you don't have love, it's pointless. So to really look at the supremacy of love is pretty incredible.

Brandy Goebel 28:49

That kind of love that active actionable love should be propelling everything that we do.

That should be our driving motivator, is this call to action: love, that defines who God is and how we're meant to be.

Matt Goebel 29:13

Absolutely. And so when you start looking at, okay, but what does that really mean to be

lived out? You know, if we were to take that definition of love, and then apply it to life? What does that look like?

Brandy Goebel 29:29

Well I can tell you straight up, I apparently am a very unloving person.

Matt Goebel 29:37

We all are.

Brandy Goebel 29:38

Holy moly. I mean, because, that's one of those passages that you hear at every wedding

you go to you, see it on Hallmark cards all the time, it's just kind of... it's become trite

unfortunately. Because when you really stop to think about that this defines who God is, and this defines how I'm supposed to live my life, and you really start picking it apart, word by word, and trying to apply that... Am I kind? Am I boastful?

Matt Goebel 30:13

Am I patient?

Brandy Goebel 30:15

Patient I am not. Not when I'm behind the car, or the wheel of the car is probably when I'm

the least loving person ever. It becomes very convicting when you actually start looking at it in a very practical way.

Matt Goebel 30:32

So in order to look at what does this look like when it's lived out? I think there again, we can turn to the Bible and get perhaps the ultimate example. And we can look at the passage in John.

John chapter 15, verse 13, and it says there and these are the words of Christ, saying,

"Greater love has no one than this that he lay down his life for his friends." And I think our ultimate example is Christ Himself. And how he lived out his life on Earth, and how his life on Earth ended. That sacrifice of self is the ultimate expression of love. Sacrifice of self, to the point of death, on another's behalf. It doesn't get any bigger than that.

And I think when you apply that to your life, apply that to your relationships. This relationship, this love that I have for the person should lead me to set aside my own wants, my own needs, my own desires, and be seeking out what is best for this other person. How can I best serve this other person?

Brandy Goebel 31:51

That kind of sacrificial love for your spouse, one, it's a lot. That's a constant giving of yourself that apart from God's strength, we don't have the capacity to do it.

Matt Goebel 32:08

No, absolutely not.

Brandy Goebel 32:09

But it also becomes... I mean, you can look at it in two ways, one as this obligatory duty that you have, but then that's not love, because, because it's not coming from a place of kindness.

But it becomes such a gift. You know, there are days, I know, for instance, with you

that, you're exhausted and you're tired, and you're frustrated with your job, and all those things. And the last thing you want to do is get up and do dishes or whatever, but you know that my Adrenal Fatigue is kicked in. So you're going to let me have some extra time to sleep, and you're going to get up and take on that responsibility. And when I get up and see that, that's such an act of love for me, because I know that it was a sacrifice for you. And then that fuels me to want to then find a way to reciprocate. Not because there's any kind of tally score-keeping. But because it was an act of love, it was a gift; you gave me a gift. And now out of gratitude, I want to express that love back to you.

Matt Goebel 33:19

Yeah, and that's exactly how it ought to operate. Even if you don't want to believe in God, you don't want to believe in the Bible as His word, and you want to take all of that out of it.

Changing your definition of love to one that is outside yourself, is going to be the only way you're going to make a relationship last. Because if you define it all in a selfish way, it's going to fail.

Brandy Goebel 33:49

Well, and it might last. I mean, to be fair, bad marriages last, but it's never going to thrive

and be what you want it to be. It's never going to have the richness and the depth that you desired the day you said, I do. I mean, I've seen so many couples that they're in there just together because...

Matt Goebel 34:11

Out of spite, almost.

Brandy Goebel 34:12

Well out of spite, or complacency, because change is hard, whatever. But it's not a good

marriage. It's not a loving marriage. So, you can last. You can survive, but you won't thrive.

Matt Goebel 34:26

I think in order to really have the sort of relationship that we were meant to, the the sort of love that we all should strive for, you have to switch it up to something that's outside

yourself, you have to define it in an unselfish way. You have to look at love as a sacrifice.

Because I think that's the ultimate expression of love is sacrifice.

What would I give up to attain something? You know, that's going to tell you your depth of attachment or love, if you will, for that thing. Well, relationship sort of love is the same thing. What am I willing to set aside for this person? And that's going to tell you a lot, asking some of those questions. Because I think that's the ultimate expression of what love is all about is setting aside your own needs, your own wants, dreams, hopes, ambitions, whatever the case may be, and really looking at what can I do to make this person happy.

Brandy Goebel 35:34

And if you're looking at it, like as we are right now, through the context or in the context of a marriage, if you're constantly looking at what can I do today to esteem my spouse and put their needs above my own, then hopefully, your spouse is doing the same thing.

So you might be willing to lay down your dreams and desires but your spouse says, I'm willing to lay down my agenda so that you can have your dream or whatever. It again, it comes back to that reciprocation that isn't based on a score sheet. It's that kind of good behavior begets good behavior kind of a thing.

Matt Goebel 36:19

When it's done the right way. It builds both people, it brings both people together.

Brandy Goebel 36:25

Yes. And it builds them up.

Matt Goebel 36:27

It builds them up. Yeah, absolutely. I think having a good definition of love is a game

changer for relationships. Whether or not you believe in God, or the Bible, whether or not you would define yourself as a Christian, get yourself a good definition of love, and live it out every day and live it out as a choice, not as a feeling.

So I think that's the bulk of what I wanted to talk about. Because it's just so frustrating to see relationships fail, to see the misconceptions in our society, because of a poor definition of love. It just hurts to see it go wrong.

Brandy Goebel 37:09

Well, and you set yourself up for all kinds of potential problems when you're basing a

relationship off the way you feel. You know, we've been married 24, 23...?

Matt Goebel 37:24


Brandy Goebel 37:24

23 years. I really should know that.

Matt Goebel 37:28

That's a lot of mathing.

Brandy Goebel 37:29

It's a lot of math. But in that 23 years, we've had some really high wonderful feelings. And we've had some pretty dark feelings as well towards each other.

Matt Goebel 37:41

And there's gonna be those days.

Brandy Goebel 37:43

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes that's it. Like, sometimes it's a season and sometimes it's just an hour, you know. But man, had we not looked each other in the eye and said, I'm choosing to love you, even though I don't like you right now. Man...

Matt Goebel 38:00

Oh, we would have been done a long time ago.

Brandy Goebel 38:03

You know, and that's the thing. In fact, I've even said that very phrase to our kids. "I don't like

you right now. But I love you." And in trying to explain, you know, your behavior is setting me off and the choices you're making or whatever' I don't like what is happening here. But I will forever love you. And I will choose to stand by your side every single day. Even when I can't stand the sight of your face, you know?

Matt Goebel 38:31


Brandy Goebel 38:32

No, that was for you. That wasn't about the kids.

Matt Goebel 38:34

Oh, okay. Well, that's understandable.

Brandy Goebel 38:39

I have never told our children that I couldn't stand the sight of their face. That would be


Matt Goebel 38:42

It would be terrible.

Brandy Goebel 38:43

Plus, we have very cute children. So it's all good.

But yeah, I think this is a really important topic, Matt, I think that you're right, it's something that has definitely been misconstrued through our culture. And it's something that needs to be carefully examined, like you said, whether you're a Christ follower or not, check your definition and find something that's reliable.

Matt Goebel 39:06

And it gets to the core of our expectations from a relationship. If you get it wrong, if you get the concept of love wrong, you're always going to be looking for the wrong things or

expecting the wrong things.

Brandy Goebel 39:20

You know, and I would even encourage couples that are in in the dating stages, before you start bandying about the word love, talk about what that means with each other.

Matt Goebel 39:30

Yeah, it could be very revealing.

Brandy Goebel 39:32

Find out what love means to your significant other. Because if they're talking about how it's just all feelings and what you can do for me, well, that's shaky ground, my friend, and you're gonna sink quick.

Matt Goebel 39:46

Yeah, there should be warning bells going off.

Brandy Goebel 39:48

Absolutely. Absolutely. But if their definition of love include sacrifice, and choice and action, and a committed mindset...

Matt Goebel 40:00

That's somebody to hang on to.

Brandy Goebel 40:02

Yeah, you've got solid ground there that you can work on. Yeah, good stuff.

All right. Well, you guys, I think that's going to do it for us this time. Hey, I want to encourage you. I don't know if you guys are fully aware of what all our website has to offer. But if you go to, you can find a link to each episode, you can listen to it right there, you will also find show notes that have links to the transcripts, to all of our social media accounts, as well as our email address.

On there, too, we have blog articles that will oftentimes relate to the episode that we're talking about. But sometimes they don't, because sometimes Brandy doesn't know what to write. So I write something different. So anyway, go to the website. I just, that's my challenge to you is go to the website, look around a little bit. There's lots of articles from every single episode we've done, show notes from every episode, and, and links to the latest episode.

Also, in the show notes, I believe, or maybe it's the regular blog, I don't know, sometimes there will be links to resources like books, or usually it's books that we're talking about. And if you buy those books through that link, it's a little kickback to us because we're affiliated with Amazon. So it doesn't cost you as a listener or purchaser anymore, but some of that money comes back to us and will help with our expenses. So that's a good thing.

Also, speaking of expenses, if you wanted to become a Patreon supporter, you could do that over at And there we've got three tiers you can choose from. You'll get rewarded based on what tier you decide you want to donate at. It doesn't go over $10 per month. So it's super duper reasonable, you guys. We've got a few sponsors already, or patrons already. We're super grateful for all of them. And they're our favorite listeners. Let's just say that. They're our favorites.

Matt Goebel 42:13

I don't know if we want to define favorites that way.

Brandy Goebel 42:16

Well, I mean, I think we do. It doesn't matter.

Anyway, you guys you can find all of our links over at our website. And I think that's it.

Matt Goebel 42:30

I think so.

Brandy Goebel 42:30

I think we're done. Man, my brain just kind of turned off for a second. Where are we? Who am I? What am I doing in this closet? I'm so confused. And why are there no clothes in it anymore?

You guys have a lovely day. Hey, this should compel us. It should make us think a little bit as I do our closing because what I always say at the end is love God. Love people. Pray hard.

Matt Goebel 43:01

There you go.

Brandy Goebel 43:02

All right. Talk to you guys later. Bye bye.