2020 Comprehensive Plan Comments
These comments are being collected in a variety of means including:
Phone comments, email comments emailed to: firstname.lastname@example.org
And by transcribing comments from a marked up public copy of the plan as retrieved by Kat Forsell in Raquette Lake from the Raquette Lake Post Office
December 2, 2020
From Scott Thompson via email
I know many are very aware of this (Alex), but I read with interest an article this morning highlighting the need to preserve and grow sustainable tourism in Long Lake, indeed all of the Adirondacks.
The one topic I keep returning to is the need for C7 to be a year round trail and it’s not too late.
No where is mentioned the “New rail service” to Sabattis; and unless there would be a shuttle bus what good would that do? Everyone knows what sledders spend and if the rail trail was there, I’m sure there would be many more guests driving into the County to ride to or drive to and ride the trail for the other months . The Shoulder seasons would benefit the most especially with ebikes and fat tire Mt. bikes.
In our area, the RR boasts all the people they will bring to the reservoir, but don’t explain how. If they stop at the center of the community, people will have to walk about a mile to the water with their canoes and supplies. There is very little communication and no DEC presence, so how will they dole out campsites when the sign up is at Stillwater ( the other end).
The key to stopping rail reconstruction is local governments: the State will follow “sunk Logic” and continue no matter what unless Towns and Counties take action. Even the contractors and State inspectors on site are predicting they will be back in ten years to tear it up again.
Scott s Thompson
150 Norridgewock Lake Road
Eagle Bay, NY 13331
October 30, 2020
Phone call to Long Lake Town Office, Parks & Recreation re. Comp plan
Was the Rocky Mountain Institute Plan used or reviewed in this plan - a plan developed in the 1990’s? Not clear if it was every legally adopted
November 5, 2020
Public Comments Made by Nancy Grosselfinger on a public copy of the Comprehensive Plan that was placed at the Raquette Lake Post Office to be borrowed and used by other members of the public. Due to Covid-19 and the volume of notes – the plan was pulled and notes were compiled/typed up and included in the Public Comment notes section of the Appendix. 11.5.20
COVER PAGE – Note reads: Please continue the “mark up” watching for impact or omission of Raquette Lake Public Input on Wed 7pm, Town Board
(see page 6)
Stakeholder from community organizations
Notes on the advisory committee
Clay – elected Nov 19
Richard Dechene – elected – family with Hillarie Logan-Dechene
Liz Forsell – Elected RLFSD
Biz Noonan noted as family member with Rachel Pohl
Rachel Pohl – noted as family member with Biz Noonan
Alex Roalsvig – employee town
Craig Seaman – elected town
Noelle Short – employee LLCSD
Who designated this? This is called “opportunistic data collection” NOT A “scientific probability sampling.” From which extrapolation is possible
First meeting of Advisory Committee September 4, 2019 at Long Lake Town Hall at 7am and a 6:40am departure from Raquette Lake
Page 8 – Which Large post Civil War Hotels era Hotels still exist?
Page 9 ROOST relied upon a survey using only technology devices – Facebook therefore favored tech savvy visitors
Not Sagamore, Cortland or Girls Camp – note is near a highlight line “propose additional trail networks for connectivity within the town of Long Lake” - unreadable handwriting – “wi town” where there is a concentration of amenities RL HOTEL
Page 10 –
CAP – 21 – “THIS HARDLY REPLIES TO CAP 21”
Hamlet 3 did not address RL ?!
What about COMMON GROUND ALLIANCE – multi-year sustainable communities result – Hosted several years by Town of Long Lake
96% “seasonal recreation occasion” lays the ground for a “vacancy tax” on non-voting community members
Estimated 379 year-round population down from 711 in 2010 census
No picture of the derelict building in the center of RL !
What about the RL Boys and Girls Camp the most elite in the entire US!
Raquette Lake people employed in “education” Biz, Diane, Jn R, Louis B, Mindy, Amanda?
Sticky note on a photo “What is the purpose of this photo?”
49% private resource management
37% APA forest and wilderness totals 86%
Locations of “recreational facilities” especially in RL? Where?
Needs much more info about all these community services. NOTHING on electric, sewage, water, internet
TWO public water supplies
RL as well as LoL
Remember Gregg Wallace NY Referendum
What about RLP Foundation, again RL left out
No one mentioned access to food? Healthcare?
a. Significant investment and
b. Involvement How many characteristics for RL?
A. Press releases
B. Town announcements
C. Social media
E. Direct invites
Notice on photo – “barely distinguishable” ** PLEASE NOTE in order to make a printable copy of the document – the digital copy was “digitized” to be printable in house by the Town Leased Copy Machine – and therefore the printed copy had a murky image.
Note under - marketing “We’re Cheap”
Location within a few hours of major cities – “so what?”
The first series of focus group sessions. “RL Focus group date? Time? Length? Number of part characteristics? Advertisement?
No library participation?
No not for profits?
Their focus/ - unreadable
Chamber of Commerce – “why has this not taken place already”
Focus Group Raquette Lake – “examples of resilience, mutual support”
Power of social user ‘ “age based users”
Bird guiding service – in RL, really?
Little Bus –“effectively used” for Raquette Lake – come on – hardly ever seen or used
Misson of SUNY Cortland Outdoor Ed is to “educate its students” partners – participate in this plan?
What about in home assistance?
Page 21 – critical of photo Location, relevance? Is this person (male) a visitor or resident?Why not promote family recreation with a multi-generational photo?
The following notes are on the Appendix Meeting notes:
How were departing residents
B. B. contacted
Results – education, how? Wheen/ Feedback, how? When?
1 Raquette Lake
7 Long Lake
7am holiday ? In Long Lake
Check if any apply to RL!
No mention of better partnering with current utilities
What about lack of town owned land for
Beach/docking – REC
Servies transfer in *** UNREADABLE**
Which organizations, flyers, What about the two libraries?
Only one field visit to Raquette Lake – publicity, location, timing, purposed techniques
Lack of skil in applying for grants
Amount to qualify for $ specify
RL Site Visit Notes – Sept 27 2019
Where on public land
Check NYS and Federal as previously they indicated H20 from Sagamore Rd Well could be extended to Antlers and Burketown
No mention of access to food
Recreation – off season
How this sponsor sough housing for the Stewards?
No public advertising!!!No such installation in RL this was in Long Lake **referencing Affordable Housing project 2007**
No mention of Library, church buildings (BOTH)
Meeting #2 Notes – Nov 18, 2019
Site visit does not mention
SUNY Cortland access
Publicity Where? When? Nov 18th, 5:30pm Upstairs, LL Town Hall
% RL respresentation - ** please note the RL participants were highlighted – Ed Meelan, Ken Hawks, Rachel Pohl
p. 3. Of 4 notes
How many stakeholder names?
Communities Represented from RL?
Utterly INADEQUATE DISCUSSION NEEDS PRIORITY AND DEEP WORK
There a 2 town justices Farr LL Edelstein RL
p. 4 of 4
Re. Survey’s - Publicity? Where? How? Over 65’s being reached by these methods?
This show outreach to those present / able to attend RL people mostly over 65 – how many still go to Winter Carnival
Winter 2020 – Stakeholder Survey Input Survey
P 2 of 4
Snowmobiling is weather dependent – largely Saturay and Sunday
December – March if lucky – what about October/ Novemember April / May
P. 4 of 4.
No concern about access to health care?
To these needs?
RL said they were extremely satisfied with by “rec opportunities provided by town?”
LL Comp Plan
Executive Summar of focust Groups Jan 22 & March 5
6 Meeting/25 participants = 4 per meeting
March 5 RL PANDEMIC!
P. 3 OF 7
CHAMBER – This is a private sector of obligation – not government
Virtual no service in RL for Little Bus
p 4 of 7
No mention of LL Library
Also Health Center? Why?
P 5 of 7
No one from RL came to the Ham Co Ed Project. 3 meeting to discuss Ed opportunity development
Didn’t answer invite
P 6 of 7
Where to locate – put affordable housing? And who are the intended occupants specif location/people?
P. 7 of 7
No mention of food access, healthcare, medication, transportation
Meeting #4 Notes
3 RL – Hawks Noonan Forsell
Q 12 – Swimming?
p. 16 Q13 – Nothing about education – intellectual stimulation arts
Q 15 – The Town vs. APA? NYS?
Public Comment Submitted Via Email
From Deb Evans
512 Antlers Road, Raquette Lake
November 6, 2020
Received 12:45pm to email@example.com
Pandemic as an issue - experts say there will be more in next twenty years
Climate change could be addressed- if snow less winters - what then?
Housingneed study will be a decade old- any updates?
biggest threat or opportunity is the sale of Whitney land.
Stupidest thing I've ever heard was the dec wanting a snowmobile trail from sagamore Rd to south inlet
bordering burke town and building new RT 28 bridge for cars and keeping old bridge for snowmobiles and pedistrians. Every other county has had a wider bridge built for multi use. Talk about ugly!
2 bridges side by side!
applause to Jim dillon and crew for building, putting in, taking out , storing the town dock and launch dock.
And for upkeep and maintaining town town raquette.
Page 13 re campgrounds
dillon pk is privately built and run -only one built for handicap
State ones need some major infrastructure improvements - re site sizes and plumbing and staff need training re hospitality and diversity
have heard number of college bound students go to Newcomb or virtual classes
No evening classes
No tech classes
senior bus only serves l unless rl people drive to long
West mtn organize a friends tower group and build a fire tower again
I walk the trail yearly
Quite overgrown because there really is no view anymore.
Sad - best view of raquette!
Page 26 I
unfortunately we are 110% full in the summer
So emphasis has to be on shoulder seasons
Re trails - think there are some wild forest areas that could handle new hiking trails
developed challenges for a patch reward
Raquette lake 8 and long lake 10
Hike, paddle, swim, visit different spots
winter patch ski snowshoe sled
Add hamlet to huts org- has used st williams long pt, and sagamore and sunny Cortland
Sagamore was very popular as winter quiet distinction
director decision to make it only seasonal.
Also had active elder hostel program in shoulder seasons,
Marrion river flows from blue mtn lake into raquette
there is a dam at the marrion river carry
Indian lake town and marina take care of it
Has been rebuilt in last 20-30 yrs
At the north end
there is a privatly owned spill way and than rocks piled up to help keep high water in the lake.
Both in and out flows are into state and not a hazard to anything in raquette if there was a failure.
by the way
Even before these structures were built
, the raquette river was never navigable in those locations
The carries have always been needed and must be preserved.
Dye tests like the fulton chain association ( been testing for 30 years! Or more) would be awesome
there are a lot of septic systems that needs to be addressed, also use of fertilizer and pesticide on shoreline property.
Have heard corner power station in raquette is moving up the road by other station
It is what it is , I don't have issue with it.
Re fire depth
Have land across the road, no interest in fundraising
To build new building
also even time we had emt classes in past 30 years-, we'd have a young person and they'd get certified and move out of the area to get paid to be emt.
note saffer act from fema might help
These might be a state grant that's less involved.
Some more General comments
raquette lake is hard to define and highlight for planning
there are yr residents in town; RT 29 and Burke town
There are seasonal residents on the private shoreline
80% of the lake is state
80% of homes are seasonal
All of downtown is privately owned.
The township, RT 28 and the watershed are the only connections to long lake.
I asked friends if they had read town plan
They hadn't but they said long never accepts raquette view.
When it comes to some town services I think they're right .
2nd Email from Deb Evans came in - 1247pm to firstname.lastname@example.org
Sign comment to plan
512 antlers rd
3rd Email with comments and attached photograph from Deb Evans came in at 4:38pm to email@example.com
Folks are having bigger rigs
And most of our campgrounds sites are for smaller trailers
20 or smaller.
Dec thinks if you put gravel down
And cut out a seat at a picnic ground
Oh and put a lot of gravel on the site
And locate it next to a bathroom
Some sites like this
Doesn’t even have a fireplace
Just a grill
And most of them are very small
Could barely get 15 er in
Additional Photos submitted by Deb Evans for Marion River Carry Dam via email
Received November 14th, 7:42am
Last time it was rebuilt 2000
Here’s some pics
Robyn Burgess from the APA sent comments in to Town of Long Lake from APA. If you want to see them they are only available digitally. Please send a request in writing.
Public Comment received via email on
January 27, 2021 at 9:36am to Alexandra Roalsvig
I will be emailing my public comment remarks for this evening ‘s town board consideration of the ‘comprehensive plan’ later. The weather is forecast to be too treacherous for me at age 75 to travel alone, in the dark, in snow for at least 30 minutes each way tonight. I have had one vaccination so I am less afraid of public contact.
The town is remiss for not having institutionalized technology for town meetings given the pandemic and the distance between the hamlet where the meetings are being held and where a proportion of us reside. This is not ‘equity’ and if the opposite were the case I am sure the citizens of the hamlet of Long Lake would rise up for change. Raquette Lakers have grown to expect being treated as second class and less worthy of full inclusion nevertheless I resist that treatment. I have no doubt about the value of my input.
Please be alert for my submission so it can be distributed timely.
I BELIEVE THE PUBLIC HEARING ON THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN SHOULD BE ADJOURNED FOR 90 DAYS TO MAXIMIZE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION IN BETTER WEATHER AND PERHAPS BETTER COMMUNITY HEALTH CONDITIONS DUE TO HIGHER IMMUNIZATION RATES WHICH ALLOW FOR WIDER PUBLIC INTERACTION. ALTERNATIVELY THERE SHOULD BE AN ADJOURNMENT OF SHORTER DURATION IN ORDER TO OPERATIONALIZE TECHNOLOGY (ZOOM) FOR WIDER PUBLIC PARTICIPATION DURING THE PANDEMIC.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
TOWN OF LONG LAKE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN – January 27, 2020
My remarks are presented in writing today because of the forecast of inclement weather and the lack of Zoom technology that would enable safe participation during this pandemic.
I speak more specifically about Raquette Lake as a full time/voting resident for ten years whose family has owned this home since 1964. I have seen more than 55 years of community change, most for the worse. In forming my remarks I apply my life’s experience of living on three continents, many communities, working with and for racially, ethnically, religiously, physically and linguistically diverse people, getting ‘educated’ and imparting education, and volunteering extensively, especially locally for the past five years, focusing on healthcare access (Webb Property Owners Association), fresh food availability (CAP 21), post-secondary education and training opportunity expansion in Hamilton County (Indian Lake Community Development Corp.), and neighborhood improvement (Raquette Lake Owners Association).
A. The focus of this plan should be PEOPLE; the people who currently live in our community. Firstly the full time residents, then seasonal residents and visitors in that order. We should not get side tracked by this project or that initiative UNLESS it is centered on bettering the lot of human beings. When the first category in the file is ‘recreation’ we have gone off course.
B. PEOPLE need safety, security and good health FIRST and if they have these they can carry out the other aspirations. Primacy should be given to making sure all people are (and feel) safe in their homes and community----community warning alerts, dependable power/lighting, reliable water, sewerage and garbage removal, fresh food access at reasonable prices year round, water management (lake dam, roadways, pollutants), fire service, emergency medical assistance, primary care provision nearby, community transport, sufficient affordable all season housing, adequate safe docking/water safety, ADA compliance inclusion via technology/building access/transport/walkways, social opportunities and networks for mental health and peace of mind, and pleasant aesthetics that maximize our natural gifts and built structures.
When we get these SOCIAL and physical ‘infrastructure‘ elements in place we will become more livable, more desirable and more competitive as a community to move to or visit, especially if we can keep our taxes relatively lower.
C. We accomplish this by collaboration WHICH BEGINS WITH BETTER COMMUNICATION. Rather than creating a ‘Raquette Lake Committee’ which immediately includes some and excludes others I believe IT IS THE JOB OF THE TOWN BOARD TO MORE FULLY ENGAGE DIRECTLY WITH THE CITIZENS who voted them into office. Start by providing at least one form of ‘connection’ i.e. an email or phone number or postal address where you will receive initial connection from your constituents. Follow up by each of the four board members holding OFFICE HOURS two hours per month, alternating between LL and RL, held in an accessible, neutral community location such as the library, RL school lobby or post office (bring two folding chairs), by appointment or walk in, at reasonable hours/days. This will allow citizens to more fully express themselves in person to the full range of board members (not just town supervisor) without having to drive 30 minutes to sit like stooges waiting for a few minutes of ‘public comment’. It will also bring those board members who do not live in a community into more frequent and deeper contact with their non-residential hamlet. In addition, create an avenue for constructive public discourse, a sort of ‘community bulletin board’ that is both physical and electronic so ‘news’ or ‘ideas’ can percolate. We have lots of creative people and ideas but insufficient follow thru to achieve positive outcomes. If folks put forward a suggestion they need to be prepared to work on making it become a reality!
D. We need to OUTREACH to our reticent community members to form collaborative relationships that harness their expertise. Raquette Lake is loaded with talented, experienced people many of whom would be willing to help out to some extent IF THEY FELT THEIR INPUT WAS WANTED AND VALUED AND FOCUSED ON A SPECIFIC PROJECT. We have had more than a century of the ‘us’ versus ‘them’ dichotomy. A much more productive outlook would be ‘we’. Drop the weapons, the logos, the egos and THE BOARD EXTEND AN INVITATION TO CONVERSATION starting with the five RL enterprises that churn over $1 million each, the seven + not for profit leadership/membership (annual meetings?) and other elected officials such as the school board. Building these relationships will enable more rapid progress in achieving mutually agreeable objectives.
As you can see most of my comments focus on ‘process’ at this point. It is my belief that if a more inclusive, open method is created the buy-in of community members is expanded and their labor is engaged thereby reducing public expenditures and hopefully reducing resistance.
Thank you for the opportunity to express my views. I look forward to continued participation in advancing a much needed ‘comprehensive plan’.
Nancy Grosselfinger, Ph.D., M.P.A.
530 Antlers Rd,
P.O. Box 82
Raquette Lake, NY 13436
Comments Submitted by Carl Ferrentino