Grounded Futures Show
Ep 24: The Struggle is Real, with Noleca Radway & Lily Mercogliano Easton
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
adult, kids, space, supremacy, children, lily, parents, talk, people, young, feel, shifting, youth, school, liam, podcast, idea, freedom, part, care
SPEAKERS
Uilliam, carla, Noleca and Lily.
magneto 00:02
I know the kind of pain you're feeling Alex. I once had it myself. You're some kind of doctor. No, Alex, I am Magneto and I have come to offer you sanctuary.
Uilliam 00:21
Welcome to season three of the Grounded Futures podcast. This is the show where we discuss topics that are important to our collective survival and thrival. We also dig into ways youth and anyone really can gain new skills to thrive amid current and ongoing disasters. This seasons meta theme is all about trust, trust in ourselves, trust in our work and art and trust in each other. We are your hosts Uilliam and carla
carla 00:48
Welcome to our show. We produced Grounded Futures on Squamish, Musqueam and Sel̓íl̓witulh, but our guests are from around the world. A big thank you to Zach Bergman for our show music and a big thank you to Robin Carrico for our show art.
Uilliam 01:03
And before we start today's show, here's a short jingle from one of our pals over at Channel Zero network.
TIME TALKS PODCAST 01:09
I'm going to make those pompous academics regret kicking out such a genius, deciding to build my lab and do my research. Have you ever stared at a 500 page book and wished you could just talk to the author about their ideas instead? If so, the time talks podcast part of the channel zero network is for you. Where we discuss history, politics, music and art with an anti authoritarian and anarchists perspective. I feel different. The time talks podcast.
Uilliam 01:47
Today we are joined by two amazing guests! Noleca Radway is the Founder of Queer Media, a family production company specializing in audio and visual art through a Black Queer lens. She is the producer and host of the progressive parenting podcast Raising Rebels. Noleca is also the former Executive Director of the Brooklyn Free School, and now lives in Amsterdam with her partner and their three kids. Lily Mercogliano Easton is an educator who lives with her three kids and husband in Albany, New York. She grew up at the Free School in Albany and was Head of School at Brooklyn Free School for twelve years. Lily is the Camp Director at Camp WA WA Segowea, and finds the most thriving and joy through parenting and building a trusting relationship with her kids (and one that’s imperfect in all the ways)... Welcome to the show, Lily and Noleca. And thank you both for your commitment to abolishing adult supremacy and supporting more kids and youth to experience some freedom.
Noleca 02:48
Thank you, thanks for having us. Excited to be here.
carla 02:54
Thanks for being here. I'm just so excited to share this space with you all and with my kiddo. So for listeners who listen all the time, we're pivoting away from our typical form of like one guests where we do a deep dive on one topic or around their work. I think this will be more of a conversation. And just to orient us, the four of us together, we all have spent time in Brooklyn free school. Liam and I and a bunch of other youth and Chris stayed there for about eight days in a summer once, like we slept there. And it was incredible. And then of course, we were all part of the book, Trust Kids! and really care about this topic. So yeah, I just wanted to bring that intentionality to the space. And thank you both for being here, Do you want to just go with the first big question?
Uilliam 03:46
Yeah, of course. Yeah, we actually had the idea for the show, or, actually it was going to be a workshop in 2019. Because as a 15 year old, I was not agreeing with what I was hearing from most adults, that youth today are more engaged politically and or have more freedom than ever before. I didn't see that or experience it beyond my circle, especially the last part, mostly because youth have always been radical and freedom isn't only about being able to protest. It's so much more. Right? And so Noleca you said, "adult supremacy, like white supremacy, is always in the room". And that statement really gets to the heart of it. I would love for you to say more about what you mean. And maybe both of you can respond to this notion that things are better for youth and kids today. Do you think that is true?
Noleca 04:38
Oh my goodness, you just said so much Liam, like I am trying to process all the things you just said.
Uilliam 04:43
I guess a short thing.
Noleca 04:45
What's also funny is like you used my words to me and that was also interesting. I will say I'm gonna, I will start and I want to say that statement around adult supremacy is always in the room. I think it's really something that kind of understood as my big part of my learning and my work at Brooklyn free school, because prior to being in a space like that, I felt as though, you know, I was one of the good ones, I was one of the good adults. Like I understood kids, I made space for them. I wanted to hear their voices. I wanted to make space for them, you know, like, all the things, all the things, you know, child centered teaching, blah, blah, blah. And then I got to the free school. And I was just taking up so much room, like you know, like not, you know what I mean by that? It's just like my voice, my perspective... let me pull it back. Let me retract it. I was taking up a lot of room. But also, there wasn't, there wasn't the room, right? Like, because young people were given space, there really wasn't room for me in the way that I was used to showing up. And it was this sense of like, what exactly is going on here? Like, what? What is happening? I had the best of intentions, like what is happening here? Why are kids always cussing me out, like, what is the problem? And I think a lot of things were at play there, including race, but definitely adult supremacy, and not really being able to understand how... I really didn't know, I wasn't aware of what role I was playing in that space, I wasn't aware of the extent to which oppression happens. And what's happening to young people and part of it exactly to what you're saying is because of my own childhood, right, like because I, you know, I did not have any understanding that I was oppressed as a child, as a young person. So I for sure didn't have any understanding of how my behavior and the choices making were then oppressive to young people. Um, so yeah, I don't... I'll stop. I'll stop there.
Uilliam
That was great.
Lily 06:57
Well, the part about things getting better. I think it's such a complicated whole concept. I mean, I just really strongly agree that we love to have this unanalyzed idea that things are getting better for kids. And for me when I really start to think about it, it starts to get complicated. Like within my own family, I wrote about this a little bit in Trust Kids! I got to think a bit about this, and I don't think within my own family, I grew up at a free school, which is it’s whole own thing, not devoid of adult supremacy, and it brought me access to all sorts of things around agency that were really meaningful for me, and the way my parents tried to reflect on adult supremacy — I don't think they have that term. But certainly there was like, you know, there was some awareness or thought and work there. So it's like, in some ways, I can see how there is this possibility on smaller scales to create, to have some elements of change, you know, and to really think about, Okay, how are we working towards getting better? But that's very different from this idea that things are better for kids. And then I think the other layer that gets really complicated, because I know, for me, there's that double thing of like, even if you grow up within your own little school system, or home or whatever, community, they're still what happens when you know, come into this world that's so massively oppressive, and that's so massively co opting this idea of freedom and more rights and blah, blah, blah. And how incredible, it's just such a huge betrayal like it's, there's just also that way where when we really play with these words, and don't have that type of bigger, meaningful actualization, we don't have a real understanding of adult supremacy. In that sense, I think, yeah, there's a whole bunch of things getting worse, the more we really know, we have tools for things to get better from studies and blah, blah, blah. But like, things continue to not change for kids. I think that's where you can really understand rage and apathy and all sorts of things because things are not better. And that's so clear.
Noleca 10:32
I think all the evidence is is worse too, you know what I me. I feel like every time I listen to what the state is, or, you talk to young people, and you're like, oh, shit, it's like, it's really, it's really bad, like, things are not well, and part of it. I think, like, what I'm noticing is, it's because of how involved in the conversation adults are. Like, I think that there was a way in previous generations like, you know, one of my, one of my thoughts, when I talk to adults about their relationship with young people is like, do no harm, like, do less, do less, do less, like, there's not, there's no actually don't do more. Don't figure this out, don't set the space, like do less, like figure out how to be like support without being involved. And I think that when I think, yeah, and I think in my childhood, even though there's like things that I wanted more of, like, I appreciate how much less involved the adults around me were in, like, my life, you know, like, and then the other part of it is, there's an assumption that there isn't this before adult supremacy, which happens with all types of oppression. And I do not, you know, I'm in this life right now, this is what I remember. But I can imagine that there are places and people in spaces that are not guided by this adult supremacy, which I think is really tied to white supremacy, which is really tied to like, all of it, you know what I'm saying? So I will say that part two, so Lily and I both disagree with that statement. Liam. That's the short of it.
Uilliam 12:17
Yeah, I mean, I do so. Yeah. 100% Yeah, those were really great answers. It's really cool to see a bunch of people's different answers around that and stuff. And I always like to also bring up the fact that how you say how a lot of things are still even worse. It's like, there's little pockets of good things happening. Things are getting worse. And I always bring up with this, especially the usage of the internet, that has really played a role in this, like, things are getting said more and shown more of how things are bad. But at the same time, shitty people are having huge platforms now online to also be worse. So like, I think it's just like it, everything. It's like, oh, all the bad stuff that's always been happening. It's like it, it's grown in such a way of extremity because of the way that all everywhere in the world is now connected through online. So you can just have every different type of group of people battle each other without ever even seeing their face. So they feel like they have no consequence for what they say and stuff. So I think that also plays a part in it for sure. And yeah, it was good, good answers.
carla 13:37
I always appreciate how humble you both are. I Love it. And Liam always talks about, I think, yeah, do less, or get out of the way of kids. Like, Liam always talks about his friends who their parents are really A type and, but he's like, it's a form of neglect in the way that a lot of the parents show up in terms of making their kids do all these things to supposedly have a better successful adult life. And then judge parents who maybe seem, you know, aloof, don't really do much.
Uilliam 14:12
Like you feel judged by those parents, that's the big one.
carla 14:15
Yeah. Yeah. It's big stuff. We were going to kind of pivot to kind of the theme of trust. Lily, you wrote, I'm gonna throw some words back to you. You wrote in your essay, "Being intentional about parenting from a place of trust, and being a parent that can be trusted by their kids comes incrementally, and with a lot of continued struggle" That's so deep. I know that you both carry this, you know, not only in your homes, but with your work with young people. And so I'm curious to maybe talk about that tension or that continuing struggle piece and what it means to show up. Yeah, both of you could speak to that and I can restate it if you need.
Lily 14:58
Yeah, it might need to be, I guess so emotional when I think about this these days, I really do, especially the last couple of weeks. Yeah, I mean, I think…
Noleca 15:16
Why, especially the last couple of weeks, is it private?
Lily 15:19
No, no, I don't know why the last couple of weeks? I don't know
Noleca 15:25
Is it the solar system? Is it astrology? it's supposed to be in Mercury in Retrograde
Lily 15:31
It could be... but no, I mean, there, you know, there have been mass shootings and now I don't even know... like they happen all the time. But so, oh, but there was one even closer here. That's probably why, there was one just north of us...
Noleca 15:47
I know how could anybody say that things are better for children when you can go to school, like I don't like it's just it's mind boggling. Like
Lily 15:58
that and climate change, it just doesn't make it. Back to the question, sorry. Yeah. So you, you're asking about building trust and the ongoing struggle?
carla 16:09
Yeah, like you pointed to that, that it's not a, you can't just reach this perfect trust, and then just sit back on your laurels and be like, everything's great. We trust each other.
Lily 16:19
Yeah, I mean, I think as a parent, what is maybe something that's so noticeably different for me than any of the other type of kind of supremacy work that I maybe have, you know, reflected on or moved on, or whatever, in my life, there's there is this way that my kids are so? Well, it probably has a lot to do with love, this is why I think I've been emotional the last couple weeks, but you know, it's a very unique relationship that you have with your kids, right. And the love there is so I think, unlike any other bond or love, you know, that kind of exists. And so there is this way, when you try to build trust within a relationship that I think is so completely compacted in supremacy, it's very bizarre. I mean, I know that other relationships do that. But very often, most often, I think constructs of supremacy actually segregate. They keep us here and there when it comes to our more intimate settings, or they even cause divisions within families or whatever. And so with our children, you know, here we are, living and going through all the things and then all the things in the world that all the everything else. And so, um, the more that I think in some ways, the more we try to build that trust and the more it also, in some ways, I think, can get really hard as kids are growing up, and, you know, there's just all it's so dynamic. And yeah, it's really, I can't really compare it to a struggle. It isn't easy. And I know like, well, I've known, I've talked to carla and Noleca, with both of you. There is this way that with adult supremacy, the assumption is that it's just gonna be easy. And then that gets into so much stuff around like expectations and contingency 'I gave you this freedom child. So now, you're supposed to be calm right now, I gave you this thing. And so now, and I've had a really long day, but on other days, I didn't have a long day. So yesterday, I played," you know, it's just like can go on and on this, sort of these tracks that it's supposed to be quite simple. If we just do XYZ, then we will, you know, kids will have agency and I'll be a good parent and blah, blah, blah. And it's not how it works.
Noleca 19:19
I think the thing that no one talks about, I don't know about it, but I think that's one of the things that I've learned. It's funny hearing you talk because I knew you before you were a parent. Which is also just always just an interesting thing. Because the struggle is real, you know, like what you're describing, you could have been doing this work. And then it's in your home and it looks really different, and I think, and I think part of it is like no one talks about what it's like to live with a free child. Like no, like when you yourself are like oppressed and like when you yourself are and like, the, like they're cursing, like they're going to tell you in a multitude of ways, how much you suck at like, being you know. Because, you know, they've been, like they've hopefully been given a space, and the love and the care to be honest with you. And the honest truth is that yeah, you like we are, we may be doing our very, very best, but it's not good enough for what they deserve by like, not by a longshot. And, you know, it's kind of, I do like it, it's helpful to me in my thinking to places where I'm in a role of like, in relationship with people who have power over me, or like, you know, in my marriage, I'm, you know, in a heterosexual relationship with a male person, and all that is there. And in my workspaces, I'm usually like, not now. But in previous times in relationships with white folks, as a black woman, like, that comes with this. So when I think about all of that, like, what it feels like to be in these relationships with people who I care for, who I know, care for me, who loved me all those things, but there is this power dynamic between the two of us how, you know, what do I need from them. And what I need from them is cover, I talk about this often, so like, my new thing, like, what I need from them is to be willing to, like, provide cover for me. And also that was in our relationship, like our interpersonal relationship, we are going to break like, we can't have power between us, you know, I'm saying like, recognize that exists out in the larger world. And every chance we need to be breaking that down. Because I don't know if you can really be in a loving relationship, you know, intimate love and relationship with someone who is your oppressor. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't, I don't know how that can work from functional work. And so I hear you, I agree with you like, it is, like, literally today, my child made a mistake. And the way that she felt about coming to share that mistake with me, was a clear signal that I had failed her in letting her know that it was okay to make this mistake. And it's like those moments, I could look at it from a different lens, right, where I'm focusing on the mistake or focusing on like, it's okay, like, She's overreacting. But really, if I'm, if I'm being critical, if I'm being like, if I want to push against adult supremacy, I need to look at the role I'm playing in the pain that is being caused by this child, like this child is experiencing in the environment I've created. And it's really hard, because you know, the mistakes sucked for me, it's going to make my day, you know, it's gonna be inconvenient. And it's because of where I am in my life right now. I see it as an inconvenience, but five years ago, I might have seen it as like, the end of the world, you know, like, whatever the case may be. So I'm growing and changing in those ways. But yeah. Yeah, it's constant and it'll be our whole lives.
Uilliam 23:57
Oh, for sure. For sure. Yeah. No, those were really great. Things that you guys said for sure. And, yeah, I mean, like I am a youth that is growing up, and that's grown up in freedom. I totally get what you guys are saying, like me growing up. I've had that sometimes I fall into that struggle of not being able to communicate some things with my parents, even though I grew up very much in a bunch of freedom and to express myself. There's like, I've talked about it with carla so many times that even if there is no, there's freedom and autonomy and all of this, there's still that even especially when I was younger, that looming like power dynamic that's just automatically there like it even if Carla and Chris like my parents, like even if they're not in control of it. Sometimes it's just like, and even if they tell me to my face, you know, like you can tell me whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, I they're still that like, okay, but like, you guys still like when I especially when I was younger, it's like you guys still like say, hey, we have to move out. And I know that we have to move out and I can't have you know, like, blah, blah. So it's like, they're still they're still like, yeah, in the world, in this world, kids just don't have that freedom. So even at home, even when you have that freedom with your parents, there's still that, you know that the person that gave birth to you still has more agency than you do. So you still have those fears that come up like, oh God, and blah, blah, blah. And especially if you're out in the world, with other kids that don't have that freedom at their home, it's easy to take on that and think, oh, are my parents the exact same? Like, if you're around like that happened to me, like I'm around kids that just have no autonomy or no feeling of safety around their kids. And my brain was just like, oh, obviously, I've been the same , I must be in the same situation, even though I'm not. And I find out that I'm not because I know how simple… I struggled really hard to ask my mum that I could have a binder when I first came into this trans. That was like a really big struggle for me, because I was just, my brain, I was just like, I'm on the internet on these things. And I'm seeing everyone else's bad experience that my brain just is like, Oh, mine's also going to be bad even though obviously, it's not. And I know that it's not it's just...
Noleca 26:32
I mean, that's a whole a whole word, right? Because it's so true. I mean, you know, what I wrote about in trust kids is all about that experience of being a parent who feels that you are so progressive, and you're thinking around gender, and then you have a trans child and you're like, Fuck...you know, like, what, what all did I how, what the what? Um, I have a question for you, because I'm so curious about the fact that you call your parents by their first names. When did you start? Like, has that always been the case?
Uilliam 27:15
I would not remember when it first started. Because I especially with my, it's funny, like, it really depends on the mood and the day. When I'm talking to people, I don't, if they don't know my parents, I say mom and dad, but if they know my parents, I say carla and Chris. But if I also have a lot of moments where I say carla, but Dad, like I use your name more than I use Chris' name like I do, then there's also other situations where I say my mom a lot. And recently I have been saying mama a lot. So I've been like dude, I am 19 I want to be a kid again. mamma!
carla 28:02
So, you know, then the name thing happened at Windsor house because it was a parent participation preschool. So it's similar to Brooklyn, but it was parent participation, like heavy parents, so so many moms, right? Yeah. And Zach, my oldest, who's 10 years older than Liam was about eight when we started there. And, you know, like, Mom, I'd be like, Okay, there's a lot of moms in this room. Maybe we could say carla. And then he just says never said mom or dad since
Uilliam 28:33
and I grew up looking up to him. So probably even though I've I still use mom and dad for you guys. I think I also, just you guys also, cuz I have friends that have done the Oh, my parents don't allow me to call them anything else. But Mom and Dad. Yeah. And I'm just like, in my situation, you guys don't care. I knew from day one that your guys's names weren't mom and dad. Like, I knew how babies were made from day one. I knew how you know, like, I just like, I was just like, I'm gonna call them carla and Chris, I'm gonna call them because they're people that are in my life. And they have names. I like using names. I don't call my brother brother when I'm talking to him and stuff. I say his name and I say you know, like, but
Noleca 29:19
My older sister, my mother always tell the story of like, my oldest sister used to call her. My Pauline. Like, my mother's name is Pauline. And she was like, it was like, That's my Pauline... And it's this idea of I wonder so much around like, how those things get squished out of us. And um, yeah, like how we hold on, you know, there's all the things..
Uilliam 29:49
Oh Definitely. Yeah.
carla 29:51
you know, I want to circle back in sort of something between what Liam's response to you, you're all stuff around the hard part of how power is playing out in this relationship so inherently, or systemically pressuring in on the house, like it made me think of the word responsibility. Like, there is that piece of how we show up, like I am responsible, you know, when they're when they're little, we are responsible for making sure they have shelter and food because of the system we live in. So there is some, there's some nuance there. But it makes me think about something else. And it's something I think the three of us have touched on. And then Liam, and I talk about a lot, which is, teenagers start getting, especially if they're around younger children, they start getting the benefits of adult supremacy given to them and they start to practice it. And so Liam talked about this a lot in his essay and trust kids.
Uilliam 30:51
Yeah I did. Yeah, cuz I. Yeah, I don't think I have any friends now that do it. But when, in earlier teen years starting like high school, because now I'm 19, so I'm technically reaching adulthood. So it's like, whatever. But in teen years, like, especially... Yeah, I think I had friends that were like, younger than me or even older, didn't really matter. But like, they were just turning those ages of 15 years. And, I mean, I also talked about in this essay about how this is also connected to the fact that some of these teens had bad childhoods and just don't like seeing, it's triggering, it's triggering to them seeing young people. That they didn't like Kids my kids talk about this all the time. Yeah, exactly. Right.
carla 31:47
Yeah. I want to hear your thoughts on that. And because I think it really gets practiced out
Noleca 31:54
It's a tricky thing. It says, go ahead Lily
Lily 31:57
Well, yeah. I mean, my, my oldest is nine. And in the last year, she has had two friends like family members, different people who like her, but they don't like younger kids. She's close with their siblings. So it's the end when it first came up, it was a very like, huh? like, she came home and said, like, mom, like so and so doesn't like kids like this was like, what? And then yeah, it's been really interesting. In both cases, they're people that she has, for a lot of reasons, like a lot of affinity to but then navigating. Navigating that, and it's so I mean, that's so young, that's like nine and 10 year olds.
Noleca 32:46
We should talk about these things so much more, because literally my oldest had the same experience. It can feel a lot of guilt when you align with those people, like in opposition to your younger siblings, um, can feel really
Lily 33:03
or stuck in the middle, like trying to advocate. Yep.
Noleca 33:06
Yeah, trying to advocate , definitely in the middle. And also finding it very confusing, because you realize how much you enjoy being with younger people. And like, Is there something wrong, they're or? Should I not? And then you get to a place where they're just like, it happens really fast, at least in our case, it happened pretty fast around like, yeah, what makes these are my people. And I think, you know, a, like, this whole thing was complicated. And we talked about this so much that the free school adults, not that the young people ever got into that. But I remember having this conversation with adults, they're often around this idea of, because you were once a child, then you can't practice adult supremacy. Like, you know, this is like they couldn't wrap their heads around this is just hard. I think it's hard for people to wrap their heads around this relationship. Because in so many ways, it's still hard to understand it as a social construct because of the reality of what it is to be a child and needing to be cared for. And I said, I was like, it was always so helpful to me and thinking about these things is like being around babies. And the way that babies and toddlers are like, need to be cared for, right? They're just like living their lives trying shit, like, falling off of things getting back up, falling back up. They can't feed themselves. They can't you know, they need care. And it's very clear that they need care. That doesn't mean that they should do more work. That doesn't mean they should have more responsibility. That doesn't mean they owe the adults around in any way, we understand that they deserve care. And we have the social constructs that say, well, once you turn this age, you need less or different care. And because we all buy into this bullshit, we stop treating each other like babies. And one of my like, real truth says, I am trying to connect with my baby self, because that's my freeist self. That's my most enlightened self. That's my most… like, I wasn't worried about my belly when I was a baby, you know, like, all of the things that have come to oppress me. And so I think, you know, it's, we talked, I talked about it with my, my oldest who is 17. Now around like the trappings of adulthood? And how, like, yeah, it's a real transition, it's a real thing. You're going to feel it, I'm sure. You know, we talked like, I'm sure you feel that privilege. You know, I'm sure you feel that supremacy. And what do we do with it? Because you were just, you're just on the other side of it not too long ago, like, what are we? What are we doing with it? And it's really hard. It's a really, really hard space to be when , you know, if when you're 17 or 19, and you know, you're annoyed, you can just leave the house, you know, if you can, you know, you can make another choice, when you're 13, not so much when you're nine, not so much. And I just think it's really difficult. And as adults, I think what's helpful is to like that kind of thing, where you're saying your oldest Lily was is doing around like, bridging the gap a little bit like , allowing to older teenagers, young adults to sit in that space of childhood for as long as they like, as long as long as possible. You don't need to go find a place to live. You don't need to go, like you don’t go to college. You don't need to, you don't need to go get a job. You don't need like, live this life, yeah, that's my thoughts.
Uilliam 37:20
Yeah,100%,, that was really great. I 100% think that's how it is and yeah, no, like I totally right like, I just like, I thought the thought train just went by for a second there...But ya know, exactly right. Like yeah, I think it totally the responsibility stuff is like, you know, I just got a job. I just got my first job and I haven't actually gone to do it yet. But you know, like, getting my first job now. I'm like, trying to does not fall into the Okay, I'm an adult now. I have to be an adult. Blah blah blah. Growing up is realizing that I can still be a kid. maturing, is that totally. And yeah, the responsibility stuff is just like, you know? Yeah, this year, I turned into the legal age of being able to drink and do all that. And there's just, there's just all that that comes into it of like, Oh, I like I can't be a kid anymore. And so I can, but so many people that are my age do think that do genuinely think that and that's when the cutoff happens when they're like, Oh, I can't you know, I can't interact with little kids anymore. Can't do this. And for me, I thrive around People of all ages, like I really thrive around multigenerational. I have a lot of fun hanging out with little kids. And I have a lot of fun hanging out with old, old people.
carla 39:10
Yeah. I love them. Yeah. I love that-- return to the baby. Thank you for that. It's beautiful. It was really awesome. Yeah, I mean, I've always never not played with kids. Like, I'll go to any social gathering and I will be with the young people. I mean, even when I was a 19 year old, I hung out with the kids.
Uilliam 39:28
the adult table versus the kids
carla 39:30
yeah I will always be at the kids table. Yeah. Hands down. I am on
Uilliam 39:33
The adult table. As a kid, I would always go like stand at the adult table and like talk to all the adults and I was the kid at the park that was just like, all the other kids are in the playground playing with each other and I'm just over here talking to the parents like genuinely talking to them and parents are like....
carla 39:55
my gosh, there's so much Liam's title in Trust Kids! was Hold on to your kid within, so this resonates with us. Yeah, Lily you were gonna talk about... Maybe ..
Uilliam 40:17
Speaking on this of kids and youth and freedom and all this that we've been talking about? What does youth freedom look like? And what would you like to see change? Right now? That's such an easy question.
Noleca 40:38
I'm curious about the change part of that question. What would we see change? And what?
Uilliam 40:44
I mean, we did already speak a lot of things that haven't changed right now. And things that have, but is there anything in your world specifically that you're like, I wish this would change?
Noleca 40:57
Okay, thank you, that was helpful. Like, oh, the list is long, actually. I was like, What do you mean? I'm gonna, I'm gonna speak to change first. And I'll think about the other part, after Lily shares. I would really love, love, love, love, love, love, for adults to stop making jokes, where children are the butt of the jokes. I would really, really, really, really love like, that was if I if that, I mean, that would just be that would just made me so happy. I think, you know, people are usually doing it around people they love, you know, like, parents are usually doing it around their children or people they want to love or trying to love. And it breaks my heart every time. Like, we talked about it here, this this thing this and enough, you've I'm sure you have was like, fuck them kids, when parents are talking about like being overstressed or wanting time for themselves or whatever. Um, and every time I say we get into ups like I do, I'm not about that life. Like, I'm not about that life. That's not what we're saying. That's not what we're doing here. And it's not to discount people's need for, it is really hard to be a parent in this world, like, really, really hard. But it's not because of kids. It's because of the society that we've created. That isn't does not serve us. And, you know, I'm in it to like, I'm not, I'm not above it by any means. I don't want like, I'm in the trenches, for sure. But yeah, that if I could, if that could change, that would be great. And I think the other thing is, like, adults recognizing their sphere of where they have power was their sphere of influence. So like, we, you know, I think everybody on this call are probably in some kind of movement spaces, or some kind of advocacy were in some kind of thing. And usually those things are places where we don't have power. Right? Like, it's like we're fighting against the oppressor or some kind of power structure, and I get it, but where I am in my life now, I think I would love for more people to tap into places where they do have power and privilege and fight those fights. because there you really can, you probably could really do some shit. Yeah, thanks for this question. Because actually, the list is longer, but I'm gonna stop there. Lots of lots of ideas. Lily, what are your thoughts?
Lily 43:50
Oh my God. Wow. I mean, that's forever. But um, I mean, oh, gosh. Well, if I were thinking about like, immediately tomorrow, if I could do five things. I would like, bring back the monthly COVID paychecks we were getting, make all sorts of changes to school. But including, like removing testing, I would remove guns from my neighborhood and this country. Yeah, I think that's like, long… I do think that I don't think freedom for kids is necessarily utopic, I think we get like a hole in the conversation. Like, what does that look like? I don't think it necessarily, it's not utopic, obviously, we could get forever into conversations about things like, what's it like when kids are free? I don't think it's utopic. But I do think Like for sure, kids having more freedom, there just has to be so much more agency for their full selves. And that really does look very different from the way and yeah, it can't be constantly degrading or putting down like, who they are at their full energy thinking creative, creativity, mess, etc, etc. There's certainly that whole like part to it. And but then the flip side is like, it's so much better, you know, like, there's no way the world would be the way the world is today, if kids were free, because why would and that's not again, to say that kids are perfect, or kids would in and of themselves create some like, you know, manifest this world that doesn't, or any of that, but for sure, this world that we're driving, that's so profoundly dysfunctional, and like literally destroying itself, or we're destroying it or whatever, of the world is not destroying itself. But in terms of like what adults you know, like what we are doing to the planet. These are just, the world would be very, very different if kids could truly lend themselves to co creating how it is that we live and what it is that everybody gets, and how it is that power is shared, and all that.
Noleca 46:39
Absolutely. I completely agree with that. I mean, I think just the children I live with in my household could solve all of the things given the space, like literally, I can't even imagine the power of all kids. I think that freedom, it looks like a lot of rage. Like gets a lot of rage. Like I see. Like when they're like they're really upset. They're really rageful and it's scary, and it's scary. And like you want to put on a top, you know, like, you're like, I gotta figure out how to close this rage because it can't just be out here loose like this. But in my experience, if you're asking me what I've seen freedom look like in children, it looks like rage. Other things and other times too. I think when you're sleeping like a child sleeping is a really free space. Yeah. Unfortunately, it's hard because just my sheer presence in the space is limiting that freedom. Right? And that's why the rage is real clear. Because it's like you've pushed through so you're gonna, you're gonna like you're gonna let me see your Free Self. , but yeah, I don't think I don't think adults really get to witness children free very often.
carla 48:15
Yeah, unfortunately. That's deep. wow.
Uilliam 48:20
Once again awesome answers.
carla 48:23
Yeah, I love the connecting to… they were really practical. like, stop talking really badly about children and despairingly. Fix some systemic things that are crushing all of us. Yeah, that's incredible. And kind of pivoting. It's really connected. Because the question I have for you both. I think you both are in a position to answer this. But like, what are some ways that like educators or adults that who are in community spaces can really like tend to undoing adult supremacy like and even in incremental ways? And, you know, support this youth autonomy? Or these moments of freedom? Yeah, and maybe if you've even seen it in action, maybe you can speak to even a moment where you've seen it. It's been incredible.
Noleca 49:14
Oh, my gosh, Lily, I cannot wait to hear you answer this question.
Lily 49:19
Well, I subbed today at my kids public school.
Noleca 49:25
Oh! Okay. That's what we're doing now. That's what we're doing now?
Lily 49:30
That's why the education space is so interesting. Yeah, I mean, I guess what I would say from that perspective, is that I think it is really important to recognize that everyone in education and in their spaces can do and needs to do a lot around, you know, recognizing adult supremacy and targeting what they're able to do within their space. And that that's just like a very, very real thing going back to Noleca said when you are., you saying this idea that you're the good adult, or you're in the good space, or you're working in a good school, or you have the good philosophy or like, whatever, you know, all of that leads to so much of what we have now, this sort of hierarchy of parenting styles, teaching styles, all of these things. You know, and not to like muddy the waters to the point that you know, everyone wants to throw their hands up, but I really do, I really do think that when it comes to the type of spaces that kids get to have access to and the type of relationship that they get to build with each other within education settings, whatever those look like, the connections that they get to have with adults and mentors in those spaces. Like, I don't think there's never some inherent difference, like, in my opinion, from like, the space. Yeah, like I was today, my daughter has a really wonderful first grade teacher. It's not like because she's teaching, yes, there's like a million constraints that she has, because she's teaching in a public school, she would talk about them forever. But it's not like, the work for her in that space is like, inherently drastically different than somebody in an unschooling or a free school, in my opinion, and I think you can see it in those spaces. And that just goes back to the work for me, as an educator versus as a parent in my home, like, what we have to bring to this is just very, very personal. And then obviously, yeah, it ends up being within the, whatever container it is that you're in, and the realities of that, um, you asked for, like tangible things people can do. I mean, I do think that tangibly recognizing adult supremacy, and then tangibly recognizing, oh, these are things that I'm doing that are actually harmful, that do not need to be done, or these are things that I really can stop doing, or these are ways that I can bring kids in more. And then yeah, like staying, I think, like any journey, like staying reflective and aware of that, not getting stuck in, like dogma or not getting stuck in but kids told me, whatever, like people can, you could easily go down that road and then clog it all up. But yeah. I don't know.
carla 52:53
I love that you brought it into regular school, and like just how complex it all is. Yeah.
Noleca 53:00
And I mean, so we would have these conversations with teachers all the time or at the Free School, like, what can you do? There's really so much you can do, I think, you know, like, what you just spoke to Lily's reminder I was, you know, I got to a place of like throwing my hands. There is really so much that you can actually do in your space, from like little things of recognizing spaces where... I'm recognizing spaces of where, like, care. I want to think, like being loving in your spaces is something you can do tangibly. And what that looks like kind words, that looks like Grace, or giving children a lot of grace. So like when they're late, they get grace, when they make a mistake, they get grace, not reprimand, not punishment, not consequence, but just like grace. So I think that's something very tangible that you can do and shift in your space that could help tremendously with the lived experience of a young person. And I think I'm not like not siding with the grownups. You know what I mean? Like not siding with the adults, in opposition to children. It's just a really easy thing to get caught up in. Adults really want you to co conspire with them around the oppression of children. And there's 1000 reasons why you can justify it when you do it, but really, I mean, even like in our family, sometimes I am losing my shit or my partner's like, not in the best headspace and neither one of us in those moments. can like, you know, justify being short tempered or like not having space or. But what we practice is like, holding each other accountable in those times in support of our children, and it's hard, you know, when it happens, it doesn't, it doesn't usually go down well in the moment, but when we take some time, like, Oh, I'm happy that you didn't let me hurt, cause harm, you know, and because you stepped in versus just like. This is another thing I would change right away, it drives me crazy, how much partners who will allow their partner you know, like, I've seen it dominantly in like, femmes, but I imagine happens in all kinds of family dynamics, will allow their partner to do something that is unsafe in regards to their child, emotionally unsafe, and just stand back and not say anything, when you guys are talking about your intergenerational tables, and with, I really have a hard time being in intergenerational spaces, not because of my own feelings about it, but like, the bracing myself that I do, around what adults are going to say to children is like, it'll ruin my whole time. Like, like I said, like, it's like segregation. It's like, even with Black people, like sometimes it's just like, we just need to be in our space, because it just takes us a lot. It's a lot, I have to limit exposure, you know what I mean? Like, we will have to, like limit our exposure. And so, yeah, but I think there's a lot that actually, I'm with, like, there's a lot of tangible things people can be doing, there's a lot of tangible things, they're not going to be easy. They might be small, but they're not going to be there lots of them.
carla 57:06
Yeah of all of that, like being in solidarity with, you know, being just acting in solidarity and being loving, even with your partner. I love that because you can do that. It's nuanced, but you can do it. You can like, yeah, I just like to frame it as solidarity, because it's, I'm not gonna take down my partner either in this, but I'm gonna, like, be in solidarity to support him to show up better. And also, but also show my kid that that behaviour wasn't okay. You know? Like, we're gonna work on it together.
Uilliam 57:36
And I also think, like, the generational thing, I've just, like, 100%, I really thrive around, intergenerational. But your thing of saying no, and spaces around like adults is also so real, because I know me and my mom, and there's other people in my life to where it's just like, we're in a space with like, intergenerational people and like a bunch of other parents. And so much of it is just you and me being like, every time the parents do anything, just like, oh, like, it's like, we're walking by like a huge group of like, kids from a school coming home with like, their parents. And it's like, we're like, oh, and it's like, no, it's not because of the kids. We just have to like, witness like, these parents that might trigger us ...
carla 58:21
Yeah adult supremacy writ large. Yeah.. Take cover, as you say, Oh, yeah. Sorry, Lily, you were gonna say something
Lily 58:29
Oh, I was just going to say I mean, I also think, that idea of connecting, like identifying adult supremacy and then really connecting with younger versions of yourself, and I think this can get really tricky because it has to be responsible. I don't think if you're, if you're working in spaces with kids, you can't just go on a journey or something like that. But I do think there are spaces in terms of like really being able to figure out how are you finding more, how are you finding more like, time and play? And how are you really being intentional about having things change and bringing in things that are different and thinking about, Yeah, thinking about what it means to really love the kid that you work with, and show up in different ways. I think as educators, I mean, it's really hard and, like, it's not like, it's not like education is easy now. So I do think it's one of those places where like, leaning in to that can like, I don't know, it's one of those places where I think there is then sometimes, yeah, absolutely, there are rewards like there are like then the things especially for teachers that are choosing to or educators or whatever, who are choosing to go down those paths is that yeah, there are some really refreshing corners to go around. Partly because you're under some of the most severe aspects of all of this. So figuring out ways to, like push and make changes, can, you know also just bring like, wow, that's a way better way to show up on a daily basis than doing it this way that it's always been, you know, that's just sort of terrible.
Uilliam 1:00:24
Yeah, no, yeah, no, totally, totally. Yes.
carla 1:00:27
Is adult supremacy even like, is it something that people are talking about in these spaces Lily, like in schools and stuff? Like, is that even a term yet? Because it's something I've been thinking about, like when you know, not to super age myself, but I couldn't go back like 25-30 years and organizing spaces and we didn't really talk about white supremacy. We talked about racism and anti Blackness and colonialism. But white supremacy as a construct as a term, it took a while to take flight. And it's a really important intervention. And I'm like, it changed the landscape when we were able to actually talk about white supremacy, in all spaces, like it's so talked about now. And I wonder, what are the steps to get? Like, I tried so long, so long for so many years, it was my intervention, every radical space, I'd be like, I don't see youth oppression on your axes. Right. Like he was constantly saying it, and it wouldn't resonate. And then when I shifted it to adult supremacy, it started to resonate.
Lily 1:01:27
Yeah, I don't I don't know what you think Noleca? I think for me, what I see is, I don't know if this is going to make sense. But this is going a little bit of a tangent, but Liam in what in your piece for Trust Kids! You wrote about, like a response to that idea, you know that these kids are not my kids. I forget that. I love that I know it as a song. But like that sort of idea of like, yes. It's not our role to control children. And we have a real responsibility and accountability to children. And what I've seen, particularly in quote, unquote, radical spaces is like, and then I see it in non radical spaces, this fear of this happening, but like, since I've seen it in radical spaces, I'm like, Well, you're not wrong, which is like sort of this idea that if we start calling out adult supremacy, then what we're going to get is a whole bunch of adults that abdicate from doing anything, in really like that, that is what ends up happening, that there's this like, I don't know that...
Noleca 1:02:33
What happens at free schools?
Lily 1:02:36
What happens at free school… Yeah, yeah. Sure happens in all sorts of spaces, but sort of like, Fine, whatever. action that...
Noleca 1:02:48
We should name it, though, we should name it because I just said, we're all we're all in this kind of circle. So we know we're talking about, but like this idea, or at least what I'm understanding you are saying Lily,, is this idea that if we name or acknowledge adult supremacy, then the answer to that is to leave children without care. Um, yes.
Lily 1:03:08
obviously a thing that happens in all movements, right? Because, I mean, there's a huge amount of all of the backlash and all that everything, whatever it was, you want to put it that's happening in America right now. It's like, certain frameworks are centered and everyone's like, fine. And it's terrible. I mean, it's legitimately completely terrible. And when it happens to kids. It's awful, completely awful.
Noleca 1:03:36
I witnessed that, it's heartbreaking.
Lily 1:03:39
There are folks who are, in my opinion, more in a position to yeah, to be better partners, and like in the kind of world who are actually recognizing that subtle like, but that's not the road that I'm gonna go down. So I don't know. I mean, I think there's a way that like, how do we have this conversation? And this is what we've been talking so much about, how do we have the conversation of what adult supremacy is and the responsibility of adults? And how do we have it more and how do we hold more space for it? That seems to be the challenge. But no, I mean, even in the summer camp world where I think there's like this whole I guess, like there's such a huge identity definition as it not being school and therefore it is a place where I'm that's like a real thing that people say at summer camps: Kids are free and above like that's like almost what summer camps in America at least were like, created for forever, I don't think I've heard the term adult supremacy there's more talk around partnership, or like, maybe a little bit, but yeah, no, I think it really isn't. It's not like I centered, or, even on the periphery.
Noleca 1:05:11
I definitely will say in the like, in the end, maybe it's just like, right, what I put out is what's coming to me is, I actually have seen a lot of like, Black parents particularly talking about shifting to a different type of parenting, I don't think they use the term or language adult supremacy, but it's definitely a recognition of like power dynamics that happen with children. Um, I think that, you know, language is limiting. And so, yes, we have this language around white supremacy. But shit hasn't changed, like, I would I don't, I don't if things were, like, different and better for Black people, and all, you know, people then great, but it's, it just gives language. And for people to talk about a thing that. I guess I want to say this, I'm not as concerned with people getting, like the term, I'm much more concerned with this understanding around care and love, and compassion, I don't have the expectation. It's like a really, I mean, real talk. It's a very nuanced, complicated, higher thinking, like idea, I feel like, race is a crazy one, gender is like crazy, like, these are big ideas for people to like, wrap their heads around in a way that is like, really erasing yourself from the pollution that has like, generated your thinking around these things. And when it comes to adult supremacy, I think that part of the reason I like when I, when I realized how I got here, it was a lot for me like, it's from my childhood, like, I can dot and trace the experiences that I have had, the places that I've been, the people I've been in community with how I have now landed here with this understanding. And so I don't necessarily have the expectation that, you know, adults on a whole are going to, like, get here because of the limit, like, we're so isolated in our thinking. But I do think that what we can do is shift and change. So, um, is just, like, more outrage around these other humans that are existing in our world that are really like shit is fucked up, right? Like, this idea that young people in certain states are going to, like be cut off from access to information. And everyone's not in an uproar about this. It's like how these are the disconnects? Like it doesn't even if it was like, all Black people, if it was like all trans people, if it was like all children, if like, not children, they don't care about each other. But they don't care about any of those groups, either. But like, there's a way that the conversation would look different. But because it's happening to youth, there's like an oh, well, sure. I guess people someone's trying. They were like, someone's trying to like, take care of it. We don't know what to do. And so I think those are the places where I'm just like, I don't have much tolerance like yeah, I feel like those are the places of.... yeah, I don't I guess I'm just not I'm not I'm I want to have this conversation. I'm happy that we're here. I'm so grateful for the book and how Trust Kids! and, and how people are starting to think and talk about it. But I can't wait for that. Like that can't be like everybody getting on board can't be how we address what if, you know what I mean? Like, there needs to be legislation, there needs to be real shifts. I've been an educator for like 20 years and I remember when I started they were talking about the children's Bill of Rights at the UN or something I can't remember the name of it, we teach kids it, we'd pull it up. It was like such a thing as, look, you're supposed to have rights for your kids. The UN said so, that was 20 years ago, nothing has shifted. Children all over the world, including the United States do not have the rights that are listed on this document. So like, that's not you know, they're not, we're not serious. Adults are not serious, but I do think, I guess for me, I just want to like again, focus on where my sphere of influence is, where can my voice reach the adults that I have their ear and they're willing to listen? Something when you become an educator or like any, it's like, people really don't know how to be with young people. And so they're always asking for advice and guidance around, like, how to be with young people. And I think those are just the spaces where I get to, like, impact change and shifts and thinking, and I just ask a lot of questions, and challenge people a lot around their thinking, and make those connections between the other oppressions and that they're very familiar with and understand very easily and can access very easily because of how they identify and just draw those lines. Like just like, so. If this happened, oh, like, so then imagine what it's like to be a young person, right? And maybe that is why I'm seeing why, you know, I'm seeing it grow so quickly, with Black parents, Black mothers, particularly, is because once you start to talk about liberation, you're gonna get there real quick, you know, like, if you get serious about your own liberation. Yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna have to, like, look around, and you're gonna see that, like, your children are not having that liberated experience, and you're going to start questioning everything, which is a good thing.
carla 1:11:30
Yeah, it makes me think of Stacey Patton in trust kid, she had a line that said, "there's no perfect victims and white supremacist culture, but we can free ourselves one child at a time." And I think why I appreciate that is because like, one of the things that I got, I really appreciate everything you both said. And one of the things I got pushback, a lot about centering youth thriving and youth autonomy in the work I did, is that, you know, these kind of purist, rigid statements of no one's free until everyone's free. You're just creating privileged kids. And I'd be like, well, that's like saying, No one can be loved until unless everyone is loved, like, I don't even we can't think like, that's a very colonial empire framework. And yes, we have to stay in the fight for all, you have to think intersectionality. And,, but I guess it's more of and, but you know, it's a but and an and. And or but, kids will, like, we're just gonna continuously replicate and not and not really change if kids don't break free soon, because they internalize a ton of hierarchical ways of being in the world. And it just kept keeps getting replicated through trauma, through oppression. And, you know, like bell hooks really sent her children as the site have to do the work. And Stacy does. That's why you pulled out that quote, and I think it's, there's something there. And I and I also think it begins at home. And that's why I oriented the book around solidarity begins at home because like what Lily was saying it can just turn into it can get muddied up and turn into all kinds of systems that end up replicating. I don't know, I'm saying, this is such a good conversation. Obviously, we could talk forever, it's like, over an hour and a half and just gonna do a pulse check. See how you're both doing?
Noleca 1:13:30
Yeah. That was definitely, yeah, it's a lot. It's great. I do have to get off soon. What I was thinking when you're something that was coming to mind, for me, it was going back to like, what you can do practically, I think, also, like, helping children have tools to get themselves free. Because unfortunately, a lot of that is not going to happen at home a lot. You know, like, there are places and people that are beyond. And so yeah, I think any I think I did, I did see that practice a lot of the free school and I do think like that is something that um, and it's not about feeling like, to me, it's not about, you know better, or you're better than someone else or another adult or another parent. But it is about sharing information. Like it is about talking about truths, and being willing to stand in that. And so I think that's another thing. And sometimes that looks like a book. Sometimes it's like helping them plan a trip. Sometimes it's like giving an alternative perspective on something they're hearing all the time at home.
carla 1:14:46
yeah. Little seeds.
Uilliam 1:14:48
No, totally.Yeah, perfect
Lily 1:14:51
It's just so worth it. I mean, that's I think also statistically proven, like, study after study will say that it has a huge impact right? my dad always references some study that I'll try to remember what it is. But anyways, it gets used a lot in schools, but it's true that having a person, even if it's not for many years in your life, who really is that person for you, can make a huge difference. Like on their sense of self, on their abilities, on their resources and it goes on and on and on. So it is really something for us to lean into and invest more in just going back to where do we have power where we really can actually use that power to structurally make change in a way that is filling up the world more, you know, is just really, from a strategy standpoint, we can really go there.
carla 1:15:51
Yes, yes, plant seed planters and seed waters, just don't discount the smallest way of showing up for a young person with an immense amount of care and love and kindness, and listening really, like really seeing and listening and believing them, will impact the rest of their life. So true.
Uilliam 1:16:12
Exactly. We're gonna skip this question, right?
carla 1:16:18
Yeah, I think because the time, is it okay if we just kind of pivot to like recommendations of like, stuff... Yeah, both of you can speak to either. It can be a few things, but books or podcasts or people or spaces people can visit or resources online. But about this topic in particular. Yeah.
Lily 1:16:48
I will start off by say that I do really recommend Raising Rebels and that is a podcast., and I really what I love about that pod, I mean, I think I think like, Yeah, I think podcasts that sometimes can really like center a particular perspective gives so much for everybody that listens to really like, is it that we're that we're doing in our lives. So I've gotten a lot out of it as a parent. I mean, a person, a camp director, whatever, so I would recommend Raising Rebels.
Noleca 1:17:28
me too, I'd recommend it, too.
Lily 1:17:34
I also really love… I thought that I wasn't doing my homework, right, because I thought really generally about this, but I will add, Noleca, I don't know if you would agree. I think it does connect. I would recommend one of our colleagues, Abby Wambaugh is a comedian. And I think that Abby's stand up comedy has some really great perspectives around youth and tapping into who you are as a person and I just really liked comedy. So yeah, and it's not Abby Wambach the soccer player. We will put that in the show notes.
Noleca 1:18:13
I'm like, oh, good recommendations. This is always tricky business. why? Because what I gotta do is something like, because really, it's not necessarily things that have anything directly to do with children. But things that help us like to see stuff differently. Right now. I am watching this documentary about aAfeni Shakur and Tupac Shakur on Hulu. And I would recommend it to everyone because it talks so much about what it is to be a young person and this relationship between this mother and child and it's quite it's like, it is remarkable. And it really does speak to adultism and youth oppression in this really unique and unconventional way. I listened to this pod. I listened to a lot of podcasts. But I listened to his podcast. Prentice Hemphill has a podcast called oh my gosh, what is Finding Our Way. it is excellent, excellent, I would highly recommend it. It's like, it's given me so many things to think about and process. I would recommend you know, I would recommend I mean, this is going to sound so like I don't know if it sounds silly, but it really these are things that have shifted my life. I would recommend moving, but not necessarily. I moved to a different country, but like moving your body, moving, you're like, where you eat lunch, like just shifting your perspective in some way. I think it is really like it can do huge things like I really I, in my like I said it might sound simple and silly, but I definitely would recommend shifting, like shifting, physically shifting so that you can like, imagine and life differently.
carla 1:20:36
Those are amazing. Thank you both. I love the movement thing. It's true at thistle, I used to notice that the youth, we'd all sort of had our seats, we'd all end up sitting in the same seats every Monday night. And I was like, let's try a test where we just randomly move. We just couldn't believe that everybody was affected by how it changed their perspective of relationships with the space. It's just yeah, you're super right. We do it with our dinner table like we get. You get stuck sitting in your spot.
Uilliam 1:21:06
I'm just in my spot, right now!
carla 1:21:09
Yeah, just moving around. That's such a great recommendation. Thank you for that... And accessible, right. We all can do that immediately.
Uilliam 1:21:17
Yeah, exactly. Last thing is, where can people find y'all on the internet, your work or?
carla 1:21:26
Your work, connect with you? Yeah. If you're up for it, we'll put it in the show notes. I know you. Go to Lily. If you're a youth out there go to Lily's camp.
Noleca 1:21:39
Yes. That's a good one.. I would say definitely get outside. I will say definitely. I'm on IG raising rebels pod. I'm definitely like, yeah, raising rebels. The podcast, the IG like, that's where...I don't know if you'll find me there. Because I am not there all the time. But what you will find is like my perspective on this topic. And it's a very generous space. My children have been really gracious and generous with themselves. And something like, Yeah, it's interesting. It is my podcast, my voice, but I think one of the most powerful things about it is that my children get to speak and share their thoughts and ideas on all the things and yeah, I think it's a gift and people should take advantage of it for sure.
carla 1:22:41
Yeah, we're big fans of it. Yeah, well, about the Story Store. I know. That's more your partner and your kids, but like it's connected.
Lily 1:22:59
Yeah, yeah. You can come and do enrichment activities, here with us on Wilbur street in Albany NY. I mean, yeah, I'm on Twitter, and I am still on Facebook. But then I open Facebook Messenger, so don't do that.
carla 1:23:20
Well, we'll tag you on different platforms. Yeah, well, thank you both. I know, I feel like we just went deep, but then we went back and just wadded around. And I know it's because there's, we're sharing a space with a younger person. Thanks, Liam.
Noleca 1:23:43
really, I feel really, I feel really fortunate to be like, in your space. Liam. I'm very, I feel really, it's good.
carla 1:23:56
Thank you both so much.
Noleca 1:23:58
I mean, your mom, like carla loves you so much. And so like you see parents say “Liam is so great”, So, I wonder, I'll be the judge of that. But you're quite amazing. Thank you for being with us.
Uilliam 1:24:19
Thanks for listening to our show. Grounded Futures is a media production and mentorship collaborative. And this podcast is produced by carla bergman, Uilliam Joy, Jamie Lee Gonzalez and Melissa sharp. And our sound tech is by Chris Bergman.
carla 1:24:34
Resources and transcripts for this episode are in the show notes. If you want to donate some funds or check out our other awesome shows, head over to grounded futures.com or email us with comments and suggestions at groundedfutures@gmail.com. And please tune in next time to hear more from our incredible guests on how to thrive in the everyday
This episode was run through otter and lightly edited by the Grounded Futures team -- May 7, 2023