Dara M Wilson:

Hi, I'm Dara M Wilson.

Yasmine Khan:

And Yasmine Khan.

Dara M Wilson:

And this is Money Ha Ha.

Yasmine Khan:

The podcast where smart, funny friends bring money talk out of the shame drawer and onto the table.

Dara M Wilson:

Each week we discuss one of those money topics that pretty much everyone struggles with but nobody feels comfortable talking about. This week it is my pleasure to introduce our special guest. 20% of the time, she's an actor doing her best to live the dream in Los Angeles, and the other 80% of the time she spends raising her kids. She's Christina Elmore.

Yasmine Khan:

Yeah! Welcome!

Christina Elmore:

Hello!

Yasmine Khan:

Hi!

Dara M Wilson:

Thank you for being here.

Christina Elmore:

Thanks for having me.

Dara M Wilson:

I just want to put all my cards on the table. I know Christina in real life.

Christina Elmore:

It's a secret shame. You do know me for many, many years.

Dara M Wilson:

I do actually know you, for 10...

Christina Elmore:

14.

Dara M Wilson:

14 years.

Yasmine Khan:

How do you guys know each other?

Christina Elmore:

We went to college together. Then we were roommates after college as young adults, and now we're old adults still friends.

Dara M Wilson:

How's everyone doing out there, right there in front of me? How's everybody doing out there?

Yasmine Khan:

Tell us. Say it out loud wherever you are right now.

Dara M Wilson:

We are watching you. Please tell your podcast app how you're doing.

Dara M Wilson:

What's going on over there, Yasmine?

Yasmine Khan:

I am excited to meet Christina, enjoying everyone's company. Christina has, I have to say, the brightest smile. Just wait.

Christina Elmore:

Aw, you guys.

Dara M Wilson:

She does have a lovely smile.

Yasmine Khan:

It's like filling me up.

Dara M Wilson:

And here skin is [crosstalk 00:01:47].

Christina Elmore:

I'm grateful that this is a podcast.

Dara M Wilson:

We have to take a selfie.

Christina Elmore:

Oh. I didn't know there was a visual component.

Yasmine Khan:

We didn't mention that?

Christina Elmore:

No one mentioned any visuals.

Dara M Wilson:

Well luckily, you look gorgeous, and everybody is going to see it.

Christina Elmore:

Thank you, friend.

Dara M Wilson:

You're welcome.

Christina Elmore:

Glorious to behold. I'm just happy to be in a room with lovely ladies.

Dara M Wilson:

All right, you know what it's time for?

Yasmine Khan:

Hm?

Dara M Wilson:

It's time to reach into our mail bag.

Yasmine Khan:

Love it.

Dara M Wilson:

What do the people have for us today? Let's see.

Yasmine Khan:

Get deep in there. Get in there.

Dara M Wilson:

Over on Instagram, we have a post from Single Gal Debt Free. She says, "I found this new podcast and they are great. They're not totally debt-focused, but they do talk about different money topics. You should check them up. #debtfreecommunity #debtfreejourney #moneyhaha" That's it.

Yasmine Khan:

I love it. I loved the journey. I was there with you. I want to be debt free.

Dara M Wilson:

Hashtag especially.

Yasmine Khan:

I mean, you can't just focus on debt.

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah. There's a lot to talk about. Thank you Single Gal Debt Free over on Instagram. If you want to talk to us on any of the socials, we are at Money Ha Ha Pod, or you can email us: that's hi, H-I, at moneyhahapod. Speaking of having a lot of things to talk about, let's keep on going.

Dara M Wilson:

You spend a lot time with ladies.

Christina Elmore:

I do?

Dara M Wilson:

Don't you?

Christina Elmore:

With friends?

Yasmine Khan:

With ladies.

Dara M Wilson:

I mean, in your work?

Christina Elmore:

Oh, yeah. With ladies and gentlemen. Currently, I'm spending a lot of time with ladies on a show.

Dara M Wilson:

Is it nice?

Christina Elmore:

It's nice. Nice ladies. Nice, funny, interesting, accomplished ladies. But there's a lot of gentlemen crew.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh, that's right. They must always be around.

Christina Elmore:

Yeah, they're there. We're all there together.

Dara M Wilson:

For the normal part of our day job that is not talking into microphones, I think my team is a lot of ladies as well. It is amazing.

Yasmine Khan:

I love lady time.

Christina Elmore:

Yeah!

Yasmine Khan:

I have a lot of sisters. It's just [crosstalk 00:04:05].

Christina Elmore:

You know how being a woman, being of color, those are all lowkey terrible? They're the things I'm most grateful for.

Yasmine Khan:

But when you're together it's the best.

Christina Elmore:

It's the best! I'm so grateful.

Yasmine Khan:

It's the best.

Dara M Wilson:

Every time Back That Azz Up comes on, when that beat drops I'm like, "I feel at one with my people." I feel like I'm a part of cultural experience that crosses generations.

Christina Elmore:

State lines.

Dara M Wilson:

So powerful.

Christina Elmore:

It is important.

Dara M Wilson:

You know Drake did a song where he used that music?

Christina Elmore:

You know, I'm going to keep it real. I don't know any current popular music.

Yasmine Khan:

We're on the same page.

Christina Elmore:

I have heard of Drake.

Yasmine Khan:

I saw the dab thing. I saw him do that.

Christina Elmore:

I know Hotline Bling.

Dara M Wilson:

Wow, wow, wow. That was quite a few years ago.

Christina Elmore:

I'm aware of Degrassi.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh my god, you took it all the way back.

Christina Elmore:

And if I hear his voice, I know it's him, but I don't know any of his songs.

Dara M Wilson:

This one I don't think was even a radio cut, but there have been times in my life where it starts and you think it's going to be...

Christina Elmore:

Oh, and you get excited.

Dara M Wilson:

And then it turns into practice. I don't know another thing that gives me that level of disappointing.

Christina Elmore:

It is very disappointing to think you're getting...

Dara M Wilson:

Like, that high high and that low low.

Yasmine Khan:

Just don't set me up.

Dara M Wilson:

Just don't set me up, Drake.

Christina Elmore:

He did that on purpose.

Dara M Wilson:

Of course he did.

Christina Elmore:

He knew what he was doing.

Dara M Wilson:

He thought he was going to create a new cultural moment.

Christina Elmore:

I think he was in other ways, but don't take somebody else's.

Dara M Wilson:

I'm sure he paid for it.

Christina Elmore:

You right.

Dara M Wilson:

How are you doing otherwise, Christina?

Christina Elmore:

I'm doing fine. I'm just trying to live in the balance of it all and do my... I'm not leaning in, but I'm trying to stay afloat.

Yasmine Khan:

That stuff is a myth. Leaning in is...

Christina Elmore:

I will fall over, so I'm just trying to...

Yasmine Khan:

People who hate themselves can lean in.

Christina Elmore:

Thank you. I'm just trying to stay afloat.

Dara M Wilson:

Stay balanced.

Christina Elmore:

Keep the balls in the air.

Yasmine Khan:

Lean back sometimes.

Christina Elmore:

Yeah. Sometimes to stay balanced you got to lean back. Then sometimes I lean to the side. I don't know. Just raising the child, going to the works.

Yasmine Khan:

How old is the child?

Christina Elmore:

The child is two and a half. He is so cute.

Dara M Wilson:

I can't believe that. It's such a corny thing to be like, "He's so old."

Christina Elmore:

It's crazy. He speaks to me in full sentences and I understand the words that he says.

Dara M Wilson:

He used to be just a little thing.

Christina Elmore:

He was a small child who I could pretend I did not understand and then go about my life. Be like, "Seems like maybe you want food, but why don't we go...?" But now I know exactly what he's saying. He makes sure I know. He has a lot of opinions. He's very sweet and very cute.

Dara M Wilson:

Wow. He is very sweet and very cute. He enjoys his kitchen.

Christina Elmore:

He enjoys cooking. He cooks so much food. If only it was food we could eat. Do you know that my life would change? Because he's cooking all day.

Dara M Wilson:

He is in that play kitchen.

Christina Elmore:

That play kitchen is used.

Dara M Wilson:

Burn it.

Christina Elmore:

If he could just get in my kitchen and...

Yasmine Khan:

Eventually he will, right?

Christina Elmore:

Praise the lord, that's my hope. I'm like, "Don't lose the love." Because he loves chores. He loves to clean. He's terrible at it.

Yasmine Khan:

He loves being useful.

Christina Elmore:

He loves to help, and it's never helpful, but I just know that if I give it a few more years...

Yasmine Khan:

I hear that if you actually are patient enough and show them how to help you instead of doing things for them, they will just start helping you with things.

Christina Elmore:

I think you're right. That's the key: that patience, that like, "He's going to sweep all the dirt around the floor, but if we just wait a minute maybe a couple of specks will get in the dustpan," and then that is a building block.

Yasmine Khan:

We're one step closer to you having a house cleaner and a cook.

Christina Elmore:

Amen. We're getting so close.

Dara M Wilson:

When I was five years old, so first grade, I also wanted to be very helpful. I was waiting afterschool for my parents or for somebody, and you wait in the area where the kindergartners are. I saw somebody sweeping and I was like, "I can pick up a broom and sweep a bit."

Christina Elmore:

Why can't I?

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah. The lady who was the kindergarten teacher was like, "Who taught you to sweep?" To this day, I cannot discern what... was it, "You're sweeping so well for a five year old," or, "Who taught you to do this...?"

Yasmine Khan:

That is so bizarre because I have a similar thing.

Christina Elmore:

Really?

Yasmine Khan:

When I was a kid I remember sweeping in the kitchen and my mom coming up to me. It was very clear which one it was. She was like, "Who taught you to sweep? You don't know what you're doing." I just looked at her like, "You were supposed to teach me."

Christina Elmore:

"It should've been you. Why you asking? It was supposed to be you."

Yasmine Khan:

You! And I feel like when I'm doing it you should've showed me how. And literally every time I pick up a broom now I hear that in my head and I'm angrily sweeping. Like, [inaudible 00:09:15].

Dara M Wilson:

That's funny.

Christina Elmore:

And maybe you still don't do it right.

Yasmine Khan:

Yeah, maybe my husband comes later and sweeps up a little extra after work. I don't know. I have no way of knowing. We have sweeping trauma. So much trauma.

Dara M Wilson:

I need video of you sweeping now so that I can critique your form. I knew how to sweep.

Yasmine Khan:

My life is Dara being like, "What are you doing, Yasmine?"

Dara M Wilson:

I need credit for all the times that I don't say, "What are you doing, Yasmine?" and I just go to my room.

Yasmine Khan:

Wow. Whatever you say.

Christina Elmore:

Have you guys seen that show on Amazon called forever with Maya Rudolph and what his name? Fred Armisen.

Dara M Wilson:

Fred Armisen.

Christina Elmore:

For their whole marriage before they died he was turning the silverware...

Yasmine Khan:

Tines up, tines down.

Christina Elmore:

And she was like, "Do you do this every time?" And he was like, "Yeah." And she was like, "Why haven't anything?" "Because I knew you'd be mad and we'd have this conversation." And can you imagine in the afterlife, for the forever, you're going to be turning the tines.

Yasmine Khan:

For the rest of your life.

Dara M Wilson:

In the dishwasher. But they chose... I don't want to spoil it.

Christina Elmore:

It's a great show. Watch it and you'll see.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh my gosh.

Yasmine Khan:

Buckle up.

Dara M Wilson:

Speaking of traumas...

Christina Elmore:

Nice segway.

Dara M Wilson:

I don't want to build it up like that, but this week we are talking about the cost of raising children, and we have Christina Elmore who, in addition to being a fantastic actor and a wonderful friend and a great smiler, is a professional mommy.

Christina Elmore:

Indeed. Professional. I mean, I don't know if I'm a professional. If you only have one kid, you're like semi-pro. When I have another I'll let you know, if I have another, if I become a professional.

Yasmine Khan:

I hear that second really fucks everything up.

Christina Elmore:

That's I heard. I heard that going from one to two is like going from one to a million, but that it gets easier going from two to three because you're already in the crazy.

Yasmine Khan:

Why would you do that? I think they should never outnumber you. I'm from a big family of five kids and the children should never outnumber the adults.

Christina Elmore:

Even coming from a big family, you still have that point of view. You still think they should...

Yasmine Khan:

I remember as a child being like, "I love my siblings, it's so much fun, but when it comes to getting parenting there's too many of us."

Christina Elmore:

"There's too many for me to get the things I need from these parents.

Yasmine Khan:

These two parents, yeah.

Christina Elmore:

Where do you fall in line?

Yasmine Khan:

I'm the second of five.

Christina Elmore:

I always wonder in big families, do you feel like you were doing some of the parenting for your younger-?

Yasmine Khan:

Oh yeah, for sure. My siblings would not agree. They were like, "You just being bossy," but I'm like, "I was picking you up from soccer practice and I was going to your parent teacher meetings."

Christina Elmore:

Oh. You was for real for real.

Dara M Wilson:

She was for real for real parenting, yes.

Yasmine Khan:

I was doing things. Obviously my siblings are the most important people in the world to me, so I'm really glad that I have them, but I will deny my own children that.

Christina Elmore:

You will not be giving them the gift of many siblings.

Yasmine Khan:

I want to give them the gift of more of my time.

Christina Elmore:

Yeah. That's real.

Yasmine Khan:

Also, I'm always worried about danger, so I'm like, "Okay, if my husband and I are walking down the street each of us can keep an eye on one kid at a time," and that will reduce the danger.

Christina Elmore:

I feel like you also have to know your personality. If you are a worrier and you're going to have anxiety about it, it's probably best not to be outnumbered, whereas some people are like, "We just got all these eight kids in here. It's great. I don't know where Rudolph is but I'm sure he's fine. It's fine."

Dara M Wilson:

Right. You need a specific disposition for that kind of lifestyle.

Christina Elmore:

You have to know yourself.

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah. This'll be interesting, actually, because we're about the enter the no judgment zone. Would you like to sing the no judgment zone song?

Yasmine Khan:

We're just going to say no judgment zone in a sing-songy way.

Dara M Wilson:

That's right. Ready, go.

All:

No judgment zone.

Dara M Wilson:

Damn.

Yasmine Khan:

Okay. I like that. This is the segment where we share our own experiences with our week's topic without judging each other, but since Dara and I don't have kids we're going to imagine how expensive we were as kids.

Dara M Wilson:

That's a good way of thinking about it that I wish I had known before we started recording.

Yasmine Khan:

Improv. Improv, baby.

Dara M Wilson:

That's right, you're hearing it live.

Dara M Wilson:

How expensive we were as kids... I mean, there's stuff that you do when you're two years old, or maybe even younger, and you have a full diaper and nobody comes to get you. So take the contents of your diaper and smear it on a wall.

Christina Elmore:

Dara.

Yasmine Khan:

I'm sorry. I'm not judging you.

Dara M Wilson:

This is the no judgment zone.

Christina Elmore:

No no, back up. I mean, you were just you.

Yasmine Khan:

You were trying to creatively get attention.

Christina Elmore:

You were trying to get that diaper off.

Dara M Wilson:

I was trying to get comfortable and I had been left too long to my devices.

Dara M Wilson:

Listen, I am not the only person in the world who was done this. I remember my dad took me, sat me in a bathtub, and said, "Don't move!" He was very upset. But shouldn't he have been upset with himself for letting me stay in that diaper that long?

Christina Elmore:

I thought this was a no judgment zone. It sounds like you're judging your daddy.

Dara M Wilson:

Oh wow. I feel like you're just sucking up to my dad because you know him in real life.

Christina Elmore:

I got you Mr. Wilson.

Dara M Wilson:

I think the picture is from that day... he took a picture of me in a bathtub. I got to say, I was cute as hell.

Christina Elmore:

That really helps. As we talk about children, I feel like god knew what he was doing, because they cost a lot of money, they can be annoying, there's a lot of work involved, but if they are not the cutest thing ever.

Yasmine Khan:

They are designed to be that way.

Christina Elmore:

They are designed to make you love them. They will crap all over your house but then look at you and you'll be like, "Oh, it's fine, because you're the most precious little person that ever could exist."

Yasmine Khan:

"If you were ugly, this would be different."

Christina Elmore:

But for real, it would be.

Dara M Wilson:

"You ruined these clothes and..."

Christina Elmore:

But there's no such thing as an ugly... I know people say that, but...

Yasmine Khan:

I had an auntie who was an OBGYN and she was like, "There are some ugly babies."

Christina Elmore:

I feel like she was burnt out.

Dara M Wilson:

[crosstalk] mom goggles, though. Your own babies are cute.

Christina Elmore:

It's going to cute no matter what.

Yasmine Khan:

I was watching Nature Channel once and they were talking about how the proportions of young animals and babies all have giant eyes, smaller mouths, cheeks, that doughy look. You see it across the animal kingdom and human kingdom. It is designed to be make go your brain go oooo.

Christina Elmore:

Exactly, to melt you so that you love them and take care of them and don't leave them in the woods.

Dara M Wilson:

And that belly, oh my goodness.

Christina Elmore:

Also, how come we stop embracing the belly after four? Why does the belly become bad?

Dara M Wilson:

I don't want to turn this into a dating show, but hello out there, embrace my belly.

Christina Elmore:

Embrace my belly. I don't get it, because a two year old's belly is the most adorable [crosstalk 00:16:46]. The bigger the better.

Yasmine Khan:

It's like a little drum.

Christina Elmore:

It is! But my belly is not that cute?

Dara M Wilson:

That's not right.

Christina Elmore:

Mm-mm (negative). Unfair.

Dara M Wilson:

Unfair. Yeah, I probably ruined some clothes. Also, I'm sure all kids are expensive, but I was an expensive kid. I ran track and there were lots of meets. Like, away meets, there's travel...

Christina Elmore:

That's hella expensive.

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah. And there's entry fees for the meets, there's uniforms, there's the time that you're not spending at work that is also like sunk cost.

Christina Elmore:

Hotels.

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah, all of it. To be fair, I did not choose to run track: someone drove me to the track one day and said, "Go." To be even fairer, I was quite poor at running, and they encouraged me to continue to do so despite any logic.

Christina Elmore:

But then you were also very good.

Dara M Wilson:

The fact that I got good is their fault. It could've been...

Christina Elmore:

Their fault...?

Yasmine Khan:

Fault? You mean, to their credit?

Christina Elmore:

To their credit, you were amazing.

Dara M Wilson:

I was not amazing. I was...

Christina Elmore:

This episode is going to go deep. We're going to go into some childhood traumas here.

Dara M Wilson:

That's the real cost of childhood, is me and my therapist right now. I mean, it was an expensive thing, but it's less expensive if you're not as good: your season is shorter, you don't make it to as many meets. There's a significant cost in becoming better.

Christina Elmore:

So then shouldn't you blame yourself?

Dara M Wilson:

For becoming better? No.

Christina Elmore:

Why wouldn't you just [crosstalk 00:18:51].

Yasmine Khan:

This is the no judgment zone. Why are we blaming? We deep in it.

Christina Elmore:

I'm not a good friend.

Yasmine Khan:

I think it's the nature of the subject.

Dara M Wilson:

I also know that Christina likes to poke me.

Christina Elmore:

In love.

Yasmine Khan:

I'm going to put a separator between the two of you right now. We are in the no judgment zone. When we release the spell, we can go right back.

Dara M Wilson:

All right, we'll just recontextualize our entire relationship.

Yasmine Khan:

For like 45 seconds.

Christina Elmore:

Pretend to be kind.

Dara M Wilson:

What about you Yasmine? What's your no judgment story?

Yasmine Khan:

Actually, the thing that we're just talking about is that it's more the way that... I've talked before on other episodes... My parents are immigrants from difficult countries. They came not because things in the countries they were wrong. My father is from Pakistan. My mother is from Mexico. They both came here as young people and their version of what being a parent was and is was like, "I just need to get you up and out and breathing," and all the American standards of, "Make sure you coddle their ego and make sure you expand them in all these ways..." They did their best, but because there was this disparity between the standards my friends and peers held for their parents and the standards I could hold...

Yasmine Khan:

My no judgment confession is that I think I wasn't always fair to them. I held them often to standards that were just not where they were in life, and they were doing their best trying to catch up not only from intergenerational trauma but just living in a country that wasn't theirs and raising kids that have a totally different set of privileges, set of advantages, set of expectations, and we were just kind of bratty sometimes.

Dara M Wilson:

Is there a particular instance in which that brattiness cost your parents money?

Yasmine Khan:

I think just our entire existence. There are five of us, so I would say that my parents tried really hard to never say no to us. It was always like, "Yeah, I'll find a way." It's a lot of little things. I can't think of any one big ticket thing, but it was always just like, "Oh, I want these new shoes, can I get them?" or, "I like this thing, can I get them?" They always tried to do their best. My mom was much better at saying no. She was like, "No no no no no, hell no."

Dara M Wilson:

No no no no no no no no.

Yasmine Khan:

But then we'd go find my dad and be like, "You are impulsive and I know it."

Christina Elmore:

You found his weakness. That is not right.

Yasmine Khan:

It wasn't just money. My mom would go after school... because in their minds education is the most important thing you can have. "Nobody can ever take it away from you and it's the one thing we're going to make sure you get. If you can give you anything it's to get you an education." My mom take time off of work to go make with our teachers and bully them into putting me into AP math, some advanced math class that I had no business being in.

Dara M Wilson:

My mom did the same exact thing.

Yasmine Khan:

Looking back, I should just give her props and gratitude because she...

Christina Elmore:

She was like, "You might not get yourself to the next level, but I will get you there."

Yasmine Khan:

Yeah.

Dara M Wilson:

When I was in third grade, I think, they were like, "These math things don't seem complicated enough. I think she should do fourth grade math." I was like, "I don't need another reason to be ostracized by these people." Because I would have to pick up my books and go to another classroom and then come back, and they'd be like, "So you just real smart at math, huh?" And I'm like, "I don't know."

Yasmine Khan:

"No? My mommy thinks so."

Dara M Wilson:

But long term, for sure it was the best thing for me.

Yasmine Khan:

Yeah. The reason I feel bad is that I remember is that I wasn't allowed to do Girl Scouts and I wasn't allowed to do sports because they were like, "If it's not school, it doesn't count." I remember holding that against them. But it's not a big deal. I lived. I spent all my life creating Girl Scouts club after school every weekend with all my ladies all the time.

Christina Elmore:

You had your own Girl Scouts, you don't need them.

Dara M Wilson:

Yasmine is a natural-born leader. She's had a flock of women following around her from the very beginnings of time.

Yasmine Khan:

I just really enjoy feeding people: having a nice home and bringing people into it. It's a good time.

Dara M Wilson:

It's a good time.

Yasmine Khan:

How about you?

Christina Elmore:

I wanted to be an expensive child. I yearned to be an expensive child because I had expensive friends. But I think the thing in both stories is that the thing that was actual the cost was my parents' choice. It wasn't me getting new shoes and new clothes. It was them realizing that the school system we were in was terrible, so they drove us very far to the school that would let us in that was still a public school. Then, when elementary school was over and they realized that all the middle schools were awful, they paid to have us go to private schools and the scrimped and scraped.

Christina Elmore:

So, things that I didn't choose, but I'm really grateful for their choice. But the things that I did choose... my parents are like, "You can have whatever you want if you figure out how to pay for it." So they were really free in being, "Sure, go offer to mow someone's lawn or go write a letter to your grandparents and ask them for the help." They were very empowering. They were like, "You got this." They were very empowering in that way.

Christina Elmore:

I think the most expensive... college. My parents paid for my college, and they did not have to. I got into schools that gave me full scholarships and they didn't make me go. They let me go to the school I wanted to go to even though it was cost them more, and that's the biggest expense of my life that they afforded.

Yasmine Khan:

I mean, it was a very school.

Christina Elmore:

It wasn't bad. I mean, Harvard is okay.

Christina Elmore:

I need to never forget that. That was the realest. Now Harvard has this thing where if you're not making a certain amount then you don't pay a certain amount. They didn't have that. They paid a lot.

Dara M Wilson:

We were one of the first years where that number existed but it was on the lower side.

Christina Elmore:

It was on the lower side.

Dara M Wilson:

It has increased as they've caught up to what the real cost of living is.

Christina Elmore:

Yeah. That people can make a certain amount and still not be able to afford your 55,000 dollar a year school.

Dara M Wilson:

Can you imagine?

Christina Elmore:

Surprise, surprise. It's hella expensive. So that was a huge expense and for that I am so grateful.

Dara M Wilson:

You were all nice and practicing gratitude and I was like, "Y'all made me run 15 years."

Christina Elmore:

But you know what's sad is that it didn't even hit me. I was like, "Oh, I wasn't expensive," and then I'm like, "Oh, I was hella expensive. What am I saying? I need to call my parents and apologize."

Yasmine Khan:

Just pay them back.

Christina Elmore:

No, I should, because I went to that fancy school and they still don't even bring up to this day that I am an actor who did not need that fancy school. It's not like I used that education to then go save the world.

Dara M Wilson:

My first memory of Christina is us being in the basement of the library walking to the bathrooms together and her being like, "I'm going to be an actor," and I was like, "Wow, that's brave," and you were like, "What?" And I was like, "I think I would feel guilty going to Harvard."

Christina Elmore:

I felt no shame. And my parents knew going in that that was what I was going to do. I was like, "I just want to have a liberal arts education to start and then I'll go to conservatory for graduate school," and they were like, "Sure." That is so kind.

Dara M Wilson:

That's so kind.

Christina Elmore:

It was such a privilege that I cannot forget.

Dara M Wilson:

Your parents are lovely, and I'll go on record saying that. My parents are lovely too. Everybody is lovely. All right.

Christina Elmore:

They're all doing their best.

Dara M Wilson:

Should we dig into some facts here on the cost of raising kids?

Dara M Wilson:

We are all very expensive. In 2015, the US Department of Agriculture published a report called Expenditures on Children by Families... so warm... Based on survey data, they say is the most comprehensive source of information on household expenditures available at the national level, which is super dope. We love having data and information. Some of their findings are the largest expense of raising a child is housing. It's about a third of the total cost. That is one thing that...

Christina Elmore:

I was surprised by it.

Dara M Wilson:

I didn't even come into calculations.

Christina Elmore:

It doesn't occur to me even as a person with a child in my home.

Yasmine Khan:

I think I'm starting to see some of my friends moving now because they're having kids. They're like, "We have to get into a good school district."

Christina Elmore:

That is real. That's actually on my mind right now, is realizing that the school in my neighborhood where we currently live... Not only will we outgrow our place... we live in a two bedroom, so if we have more children we will soon outgrow it... but also the school that he could go to for free in our neighborhood is a 1/10 on the scorecard.

Yasmine Khan:

That's not a school, that's just a holding facility.

Christina Elmore:

Exactly. And I always think, "I could work with a four or five. I could be up there all the time. PTAing it out. Just be in there." And there is all these statistics about kids that come from two parent households where both parents are educated in a certain way will do fine mostly wherever, which is sad in itself. But I still feel like I can't work with a one.

Yasmine Khan:

Like, you need something on your side.

Christina Elmore:

A two, a three, a four...

Yasmine Khan:

But I need a teacher...

Christina Elmore:

And then in Los Angeles, moving to an area where the schools are better than one is 1.3 million dollar minimum, and where's that money coming from? So yeah, you're right, housing is a...

Dara M Wilson:

Is a huge part of it. It's number one.

Christina Elmore:

That I never think about. But I always think about.

Dara M Wilson:

The second largest expense for low and middle income groups is food. The third largest is transportation for the lowest income group, and childcare and education for the middle income group. The fact that there are these strata...

Christina Elmore:

Yeah, for different income groups.

Dara M Wilson:

The lowest income group people are literally just thinking about how to feed their children, something that so many of us could take for granted that we're able to do.

Christina Elmore:

Absolutely that I take for granted every day.

Dara M Wilson:

Because you're worried about childcare and education because you have the baseline...

Christina Elmore:

Because I know I can feed my child, and that there are so many people who are saying, "No, no, the basic need of feeding them three times a day is a huge expensive."

Yasmine Khan:

And it's not like they're not working.

Christina Elmore:

That's the thing. It's people working multiple jobs, even.

Yasmine Khan:

They're just not making a living wage.

Christina Elmore:

That means childcare is also an issue, it's just not the top issue because I have to make sure they're fed.

Yasmine Khan:

Actually, I'm going to reframe that. They're not being paid a living wage.

Dara M Wilson:

For households with gross income below 59,000, the total cost per child per year is 9,300 to 9,900. That's a lot of money.

Christina Elmore:

And then if you have two, three, four kids...

Dara M Wilson:

Right. With households with gross incomes 59,000 and 107,000, it's a little over 12,000 to 14,000. It's a lot of money. Also, keep in mind that all of these figures depend of the age of the child. In general, children tend to get costlier as they grow older, with the pinnacle being Christina's parents sending her to Harvard.

Christina Elmore:

For real. I haven't even really started to think about what those numbers will look like as my child gets older. Now I'm like, because I have the luxury of being home a lot of the time when I'm not working, that's a childcare cost that we keep low. He'll then go to preschool and that's going to get expensive and all those things. But currently, his childcare costs are lower. Because I can afford to feed him, that's not the top priority in my mind. So his main expenses right now are diapers, although he's coming out of them because he's potty training. Diapers, clothing, and then we have the luxury of being like, "I want to take him to a mommy and me class," and I go to this parenting thing and he can take a music class. Those are expensive things that we get to choose to pay for. Transportation, sure. And then, I guess I haven't even factored in that the housing cost that I pay for us is also for him.

Christina Elmore:

As he gets bigger, there's more to pay for. School supplies, let alone school tuition, let alone sports things and that he will eat more food.

Dara M Wilson:

His stomach is only growing.

Christina Elmore:

He's just going to grow and grow and grow.

Yasmine Khan:

I recently conducted a survey with 3,800 Americans... this is more about the way that the stress feels. Those numbers that Dara just read were the actual breakdown of where all the money is going.

Dara M Wilson:

I didn't read those numbers, by the way. Those came out of my brain. I am perfect and I don't need to read.

Yasmine Khan:

Oh, okay. Cool.

Yasmine Khan:

This was more about, "What do you feel the most stressed about as a parent? What is you visceral feeling about what causes the most stress?" Just to back up, childcare expenses caused the most stress for the most people. It caused stress to 65% of the people we surveyed and it happened more often. It's a stress that you feel five or more times a year as opposed to car and medical expenses: those are things you feel a couple times a year.

Yasmine Khan:

The things people reported feeling stressed about were: 59% stressed about clothing children. They grow so fast. Their bodies are changing. They can't just keep this outfit and have it for year.

Dara M Wilson:

Wear it for the rest of the school year.

Yasmine Khan:

You turn around and they're a different sizes.

Dara M Wilson:

You can't have your kids be cartoon characters that wear the one outfit every day for the rest of their lives.

Christina Elmore:

Why not?

Yasmine Khan:

No. You give them a shirt, you feed them a grape, and the shirt doesn't work any more. It's too much.

Yasmine Khan:

57% are stressed about feeding their kids. 50% are stressed about missing work to care for their kids.

Christina Elmore:

What happens? If your child goes to daycare and then they go to daycare and because they go there they get sick more often and so you have to come home with them because they can't go when they're sick. What do you do? All of your time off... if you have a job that allows time off... is on this... I don't even understand how it happens. What do you do?

Yasmine Khan:

A lot of people just lose wages.

Christina Elmore:

They lose wages. And if you don't have a family member or someone you can rely on to take care of it, you're just done.

Dara M Wilson:

They lose wages, or if it happens too often you can even lose your job.

Yasmine Khan:

So that's up on there.

Yasmine Khan:

47% are stressed about school supplies. That's all those things like tutoring, school events, yearbooks, after school programs, class rings, school pictures, dances, sports, fees, travel. All the things. You want your child to have more than just go in and out of school. So that really adds up.

Yasmine Khan:

32% are stressed about childcare, which I think we all thought would be higher on the list.

Christina Elmore:

I did. Personally, when I am working, that's our highest expense. So I just assume for families who have two parents working or a single parent working that that would be a greater worry.

Yasmine Khan:

I'd have to look at the data more, but this was done with people all across the country and with kids of different ages. They might have aged out of childcare or they might be living in states or cities where it's more feasible to have single income, so one person staying at home with the kids. That could be factoring into that.

Yasmine Khan:

But childcare is expensive and it should be. One of my sisters, her side hustle is nannying and she gets paid a very good amount of money, and she should. It's a very hard job.

Dara M Wilson:

She's taking care of a human life.

Yasmine Khan:

The precious thing in the world to you. You want a compassionate, present, thoughtful, responsible human.

Christina Elmore:

That costs money. And if you're taking care of multiple children, daycare centers, it makes sense that they're expensive, but it is killer costs.

Dara M Wilson:

On the other side of that, it maybe should be even more expensive than it is, but these are roles we talked before about types of jobs that are gendered, and roles that women tend to go in are devalued.

Christina Elmore:

"Oh, ladies will do that. They don't need money."

Yasmine Khan:

"They enjoy it. They're built for it. They were made to care for the children."

Christina Elmore:

"They enjoy it," is really what it is.

Dara M Wilson:

It's what it is, is that it's natural.

Christina Elmore:

They're getting paid in dopamine.

Dara M Wilson:

Please. I can't pay my bills in dopamine.

Yasmine Khan:

I used to be an au pair, because I had a lot of siblings, so I have a natural childcare... I have been holding babies since I was a baby and all that. I used to work in a childcare place in Costa Mesa where you could bring your child in as early as three months, and some kids were coming in way younger than that. We'd have like five babies for each of us and it's not like we spend all the time... It was just so much. Every baby needs a person.

Christina Elmore:

I have one baby and when he was three months old I felt like I might die. I didn't know I would wash. I didn't know how I would eat for myself, let alone provide food for my body for the baby. I can't imagine caring for five babies at once.

Dara M Wilson:

And also the situation that you have to be in where the baby is only three months and you already have to go back to work because you don't have a choice.

Christina Elmore:

That means that your parental leave was either next to nothing or nothing.

Yasmine Khan:

Yeah. And you're dropping that kid off at 7:00 AM and you're picking them up at 7:00 PM, and it's not like you're a terrible person, you're just trying to keep your lights on.

Christina Elmore:

You're trying to make sure that baby has food to eat and a place to live.

Dara M Wilson:

You were going to say something else about taking care of the babies.

Yasmine Khan:

This is kind of a sad thing. I'm pretty present person. I loved the babies, but there were too many of them per person, and those babies were not the most bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, because you need constant stimulation. You need somebody always talking to you, always showing you something. A lot of times you're with one kid and that means for a while another kid is not getting talked to or listened to. So it was sad because you could see the difference in the kids in this childcare place compared to kids I knew who were getting full family time, multiple people all day long. It hurts because I'm on the journey of about to have a child.

Christina Elmore:

You're on a path.

Yasmine Khan:

I'm on a path of trying to make a human with a body, and I'm kind of scared, because I like having a job and I also need to pay to rent, but I'm also afraid of this thing that we're talking about which is getting so stretched. That's what this cost is like.

Christina Elmore:

And in expensive cities like Los Angeles, like Oakland, like all of the bay area, all of California, the balance of it is so much more difficult. I think that's a large reason why, in larger cities in California, people have children much later when they are more established in their careers and they feel like they can take more time or they feel like they can afford it more. I think that trend is going to continue, and then it becomes more expensive to not only care for the children but, in a lot of cases, to conceive and birth the children.

Yasmine Khan:

I was going to say, because you need science when you make the slog.

Christina Elmore:

You need some science, and that is a huge cost.

Yasmine Khan:

We're living unsustainable, guys. I think we need a...

Christina Elmore:

I feel like we should all move to Waco, Texas. Let Chip and Joanna get us a house and just all...

Yasmine Khan:

Can we have a commune farm? Sister wives? Let's do it?

Christina Elmore:

You want five bedrooms and a lake? We will get you a house for 100,000 dollars and you can have five bedrooms, a lake, the best school district in Waco. That's what I need in my life. Why am I drowning in California.

Dara M Wilson:

For your dream.

Christina Elmore:

For my dream? What's a dream?

Yasmine Khan:

I like how said Waco and went straight to Chip and Joanna, who I love, and I was like, commune.

Christina Elmore:

You went to the deeper, darker history of Waco.

Yasmine Khan:

But also, I will say, in college a friend of mine and I were watching Sister Wives, the reality show, and we were so prepared to judge this family and to be like, "This is the weirdest shit ever." We started watching and we were like, "This is smart as hell." You have built-in childcare. You have another woman in the house who's always on your side.

Christina Elmore:

If not for the patriarchal sexism of it all, I could maybe get into it.

Dara M Wilson:

That's the part that I struggle with.

Christina Elmore:

If there was a bit more balance with the male to female ratio...

Dara M Wilson:

That's why you need a commune: a whole bunch of women and a whole bunch of men who are all on the same page, sharing duties, making crops. Farming, is what we call that.

Yasmine Khan:

But the women chose all the new women who came in, so they were really in charge. They ran that shit. I'm not saying it was a healthy environment in that sense, but as far as childcare goes it was good.

Dara M Wilson:

In the absence of sister wives and communes and...

Yasmine Khan:

Chip and Jo [inaudible 00:41:22].

Dara M Wilson:

Other things that we may not have access to, what can we do?

Yasmine Khan:

It's time for our action.

Dara M Wilson:

It's time for our action.

Christina Elmore:

You guys didn't set me up.

Dara M Wilson:

You hear that [crosstalk 00:41:38]?

Yasmine Khan:

We really, really didn't.

Dara M Wilson:

You didn't understand our wild gesticulations?

Christina Elmore:

You didn't set me up well for that. I could've come in on my note with my run but I didn't even know the lyric.

Yasmine Khan:

Each week, we give you a simple thing you can do right away to get better at money. This week, since clothing growing humans is so high on the stress list, our action item is to find a local clothing share in your community. Many of these provide near-new clothing that your child can wear for a while and then pass on to the next kid when they grow out of them. Facebook groups or mini-cycle.com are good places to start. Also, if you have better ideas out there, shoot them at us. We'll share them with the people.

Yasmine Khan:

Christina, do you have anything to add onto that action item?

Christina Elmore:

I feel really good about that action item because I currently do it myself. I don't have an official mommy share, but my cousin has a three year old, I have a two year old, my neighbors have a one year old. Those clothes are being passed through the line.

Dara M Wilson:

Just the cycle.

Christina Elmore:

The cycle continues. I really feel like my cousin who is three got them from a five year old that I don't know. It's amazing, seriously. It has been the best of all the expenses with childcare, because the clothing has been free. I had to also let go of my idea of how I would dress my kid. I had this whole Instagram vision that he would be wearing all these neutrals and look like a baby from 1930s.

Yasmine Khan:

Like a little [crosstalk 00:43:03].

Christina Elmore:

Yes, exactly. He's going to look like a little Kardashian. But instead he wears a lot of things that are branded and say like hey dude that I'm not super into aesthetically, but I'm happy to have him clothed for free or near-free. I'm also happy to see, the next week, another little boy wearing the same things. It's happy. He wears his clothes for like two and half days before he outgrows. It just makes sense for us.

Dara M Wilson:

That's a good one. Obviously that is for the people out there who are taking care of children.

Christina Elmore:

It's sustainable, too.

Dara M Wilson:

For those of us who are pre-mommies, maybe... take a look at those statistics.

Christina Elmore:

It's super expensive. Having children is very expensive. I'm not going to ever not say that. However, I think that there a lot of people who are in middle income groups who are spending... millennials especially... money in ways that make your life great. Like, you buy lattes and you enjoy evenings out and things like that. If you want to keep your life just like that, don't have kids. If you want to have a lot of joy and a lot of happiness at home but have fewer lattes and fewer nights out, I think you can make it happen. I know a lot of friends who are like, "We're not having kids because it's so expensive," and they have fancy lives. You're right: you can't have fancy kids.

Dara M Wilson:

You can't have fancy kids.

Christina Elmore:

I mean, rich people can, but you can't have both usually. You can't have the fancy Instagram version of babyhood that you thought you were going to have, but you can have them in a way that can make sense for your budget and your life. To keep it real, the longer you wait the more expensive it gets, so if you're into it and you feel like you could maybe do it, I'd say do it. I think that overall, it's worth it. It is stressful and scary and hard and very expensive, but I'm speaking specifically now to middle and upper income millennials who buy fancy lattes but feel like I can't have a baby.

Dara M Wilson:

Which are you more interested in? The lifestyle or...?

Christina Elmore:

And what kind of life do you want to have? And neither is worse than the other. Fancy lattes are amazing. I love a good lavender latte. But I buy much fewer of them.

Yasmine Khan:

That reminds me of a book my husband and I read together called All Joy No Fun that was like getting into parenthood. There will be no fun but it'll be a lot of joy.

Christina Elmore:

That is exactly it.

Dara M Wilson:

And it will be worth it.

Christina Elmore:

It'll be worth it.

Dara M Wilson:

Just like our next segment, which is it was worth it. It was worth it. You went to church a bit.

Christina Elmore:

It was worth it.

Dara M Wilson:

Lay that beat in there, thank you very much.

Yasmine Khan:

It was worth it is a segment where each of us share something we spent money on in the past week and we have decided it was worth it.

Dara M Wilson:

We feel good about it.

Yasmine Khan:

Dara, what've you got?

Dara M Wilson:

I have mentioned on this show I have many ailments, and so I have a lot of [inaudible] that are associated with the ailments. One that is very top of mind right now because I don't have it with me is my foam roller. That foam roller will crack that back right out and get all your little knots and things. I think a lot of people in non-sports life don't foam roll, because it's definitely something I got from being an athlete. Get yourself a foam roller, y'all. It's so good. It's hard and it's painful but it's a good pain. It's like, "It hurts so good and I'm going to be able to walk after this." You got to get on the ground. I have very long hair. Sometimes accidentally roll my hair.

Yasmine Khan:

That's the worst.

Christina Elmore:

That hurts.

Dara M Wilson:

It's not a good hurt, it's a bad hurt.

Christina Elmore:

That's a it hurts so bad.

Dara M Wilson:

It hurts so bad, but otherwise it's so worth it. I love my foam roller. Her name is Daisy. Daisy be getting it in. Anyways.

Christina Elmore:

That took a turn.

Dara M Wilson:

Christina, what was your it was worth it for this week?

Christina Elmore:

I upgraded my membership at my fitness studio to make myself go more and to... When I leave there, I don't feel like I'm getting skinnier... I mean, maybe fitter. I'm not skinnier. I don't weigh less. It's not for that.

Dara M Wilson:

Your arms are super jacked, though.

Christina Elmore:

Thank you. I do feel stronger and I feel good when I leave. I think for the first year and a half after having the baby I was like, "Working out is not going to make me feel better, it's going to make me feel worse." And it probably would have, but after that stage I realized it was going to make me feel better. It costs a lot of money and upgrading the membership was not a choice I made lightly, but it is one that I'm very happy about and I feel stronger and fitter, although not skinnier, and that is fine.

Dara M Wilson:

That is fine. You have to get stronger as your baby gets bigger because you've got to pick him up.

Christina Elmore:

Right? So I can pick him up, because he's a whole entire man. And I thought that that was enough. I was like, "I carry a child, it's fine." But no, this is better. Also, it's nice to be in a room full of adults for an hour and have a reason to be like I am leaving the house.

Dara M Wilson:

That's a lovely one.

Yasmine Khan:

Self care!

Dara M Wilson:

What about you, Yasmine? What's your worth it?

Yasmine Khan:

My it was worth it is not... You guys were so healthy and grown up with your it was worth its. Mine is real frivolous. I really enjoy those expensive candles because the way that they smell lights up my life. I like having people over and hosting and it is a multi-sensory experience. I like making things color-coordinated and then adding the scent, then adding the food. It's just part of the ambiance.

Dara M Wilson:

Ambiance.

Christina Elmore:

Ambiance.

Yasmine Khan:

But those candles are so expensive. What happens is you burn them down, you still have all the wax at the bottom, and you know that's like 10 dollars worth of wax. In your head, you're like, "I can't throw this away." So I don't. Usually they're in pretty cases too. I want to keep that. What I do is I throw them in the freezer and then when they're nice and hard I grab a spoon and I crack out all the rest of the wax. I ordered these really cheap wicks on Amazons recently: just a wick, a fresh wick.

Christina Elmore:

This is a game changer.

Yasmine Khan:

It really is. So you get a fresh wick, which is like five dollars for a pack of 100 on Amazon. Then you have to do a double-boiler thing where you boil water and then you place a bowl of the wax into the boiled water so the water doesn't get in with the wax. You melt it down and then you pour it into a fresh container and you have a brand new candle.

Christina Elmore:

This just changed my life.

Yasmine Khan:

I'm so happy.

Dara M Wilson:

I would also encourage anyone to look into making candles out of Crisco.

Yasmine Khan:

What? Shortening?

Dara M Wilson:

Yeah. You can do it. There's recipes online. I have done it before. Then you scent them the way that you want.

Yasmine Khan:

The greasiest candles definitely have the strongest scent.

Dara M Wilson:

You can scoop out an orange and then put it in half an orange so you have a beautiful orange with a couple cloves in it and your wick. It's so great. It's one of my favorite crafts.

Christina Elmore:

I kind of just want a candle podcast now.

Yasmine Khan:

Should we just go buy candles?

Christina Elmore:

I feel like that's the move.

Dara M Wilson:

These kids, ugh. Let's talk about candles. It's a lot of fun and it's tactile. I like stuff that after it's done you're like, "I have done a thing."

Christina Elmore:

Industriousness. I like feeling like I made a thing. I did a thing.

Dara M Wilson:

I achieved something. I feel like a lot of us do work where the work never ends. You're just working and working and working.

Christina Elmore:

You don't see a thing.

Dara M Wilson:

It's so nice to hold something and be like, "I did it. It was worth it."

Christina Elmore:

It was worth it.

Yasmine Khan:

Thanks so much for joining us.

Christina Elmore:

Thanks for having me. This was so much fun.

Dara M Wilson:

That's our show! Yeah! We so loved having you.

Yasmine Khan:

Where can people find you?

Christina Elmore:

You can find me on the television sometimes, occasionally.

Yasmine Khan:

Where?

Christina Elmore:

I don't know. These shows don't come out until next year. Catch 20 is on BET and Insecure on HBO. I'm also on the Instagram at Christina.Elmore.

Dara M Wilson:

It's a lovely Instagram.

Christina Elmore:

It's mostly my child, so if you enjoy pictures of cute kids...

Dara M Wilson:

Thanks Tines.

Christina Elmore:

Thanks for having me.

Yasmine Khan:

That's our show. Make sure you hit subscribe wherever you're listening to this so that you can get Money Ha Ha in your ear holes every single Tuesday. Next week on Money Ha Ha, we'll be with writer, actor, and improviser Erin Whitehead to talk about medical expenses. If you like the podcast, show the support. Rate us. Leave us a great review wherever you're listening to this right now.

Dara M Wilson:

Send us your stories, questions, ideas for future episodes. We especially would love to hear any of those in your own voice. Here's how to do it. First record a voice memo on your phone. Kick it off by telling us your first name and where you are, or remain anonymous. Then share your story, or comment, or question in about 30 seconds or so. Once you're done recording attach that recording to an email and send that email to hi@moneyhahapod.com. That is H-I and Money Ha Ha pod.com.

Yasmine Khan:

Follow us. Tweet us at moneyhahapod on Twiiter and Instagram. Dara is daramwilson on Twitter and I'm yasminek on Instagram. Money Ha Ha is a production of the Even app. Learn more at Even.com.

Dara M Wilson:

It's hosted by me, Dara M Wilson.

Yasmine Khan:

And me, Yasmine Khan.

Dara M Wilson:

Our executive producer is Jane Leibrock.

Yasmine Khan:

Our producer is Phil Surkis.

Dara M Wilson:

Our designer is Allison Chan.

Yasmine Khan:

Our social media manager is Nicole Maltrotti.

Dara M Wilson:

Our production manager is Adejoke Adegoke, and our theme music is Money by Antique Naked Soul.

Yasmine Khan:

Until next week, have a nice life.

Dara M Wilson:

Until next week, have a nice life.