Screen Cares Season 2 Episode Transcript: Brittany Runs a Marathon

Originally released April 18, 2023

Intro

(music) This is Screen Cares. I'm Jennie and I'm Sarah. And we welcome you to our place to connect beyond the screen and watch better together.

Jennie: Oh my gosh, we're gonna cross the finish line with this episode. It's gonna be awesome. Let's do it.

Sarah: Aw Jennie, if you didn't come through with like really bad puns for every episode, we would not be the friends that we would be. And you would not be you. And this would not be Screen Cares because this is my favorite part of when we talked together are the, you just, and you worked it in, you worked in the lake pun, you didn't even.

Jennie: You know what? I'm here for it. I think I, I live in a perpetual state of looking for pun opportunities. And so like my subconscious, like it goes as deep as like my id like it is like a deeply planted, like if there's a pun, I will find it and I will then run with it.

Sarah: Oh, Jennie, you stole mine. I was, see it comes naturally to you. I have been thinking about that one. I was like, I've got a insert “run with this,” somewhere in the episode. But you beat me to it. You beat me. “You beat me to it.” That's kind of a pun.

Jennie: I beat you to it because I was running my mouth too much.

Sarah: I just, I give up, I give up, I give up, I give up. I bow down to the queen of puns.

Jennie: You know what you can do roller derby and skate without falling. I can make obnoxious puns. We all have our gifts.

Sarah: I love your gifts. Your gifts are amazing. I think that good friends give each other the gift of resources and fun things. And you gave me the gift of Maintenance Phase. We were talking about podcasts to listen to and you said, “Hey, listen to Maintenance Phase.” I'm so grateful that you did. That was a really great gift. So what is, Maintenance Phase?

Jennie: It is a gift. And so I have to kind of give credit for where I was given the gift of Maintenance Phase because it was given to me by a listener and friend named Nicole who was like, “well, you have to listen to Maintenance Phase.” You have to, and I'm like, “Ugh, I don't wanna listen to a self-help podcast.” Like, I know I love podcasts, but like, I, like I have counted my macros, I have counted my calories and my points. I don't wanna listen to someone talk about it, like I’m exhausted.

But Maintenance Phase is a podcast, with Aubrey and Michael, and they are two friends, journalists, writers, thoughtful people who do deep dives into health and wellness, like biases and discrimination and disordered eating. And they are hilarious. They are lovely. And they are not paying us to advertise. No one pays us to advertise anything.

Sarah: Not yet. But they Not yet. Not yet.

Jennie: We can help promote your podcast or what was it? Powder Milk Biscuits on Prairie Home Companion. We can also advertise this.

Sarah: I love that you referenced that. My dad has a shirt that says Powder Milk Biscuits.

Jennie: Ah, that's like why he is the dad of one of my favorite people. Like of course he has that. Of course he does. Oh my gosh. So Maintenance Phase is a podcast that debunks health and wellness myths. It points out like societal discrimination against people. It has a lot of focus on fat bias and on kind of debunking the myth that if you are skinny, you are healthy. If you are fat, you are unhealthy.

And they do episodes where they'll go deep dives into statistics. They'll do deep dives into, different wellness books, different wellness movies. They, for example, they did Supersize Me, they did the Presidential Health and fitness Test. They did an episode on Weight Watchers. It's generally hilarious, delightful, and incredibly informative and for me. Thank you Nicole. And I'm glad to pay it forward to Sarah. I think, tell me if this is right, Sarah, but it's helped me really question a lot of my own tendencies to kind of have disordered eating practices sometimes in the name of dieting and health and wellness. And also made me really reflect on how I wanna be healthy and what that looks like.

Sarah: Oh, completely. And it really made me feel a lot less alone because I think when you're talking about any of the things that you just talked about, whether it's eating or the way that you think about your body and or just your health and, and your just fitness and your, the way that you move in the world, it's really isolating because you think you kinda keep that stuff to yourself generally. Like you don't wanna share with everybody like, “Hey, I'm not feeling great about how I look today or whatever.” That's not really something that most people are doing. And so I think what Maintenance Phase gave to me was the fact that there are lots of people that are thinking and worrying and stressing about all these things and there's lots of really unhealthy material that's out there that is not helpful, that is hurtful.

And it was really nice to see, I think just to have some things challenged for myself, like the movie Forks Over Knives they talked about recently. And that was something that I'd always thought as a little. Visual Bible in a sense of be a vegan. Um, because that propaganda made me believe that everything it said was real until they did their thoughtful, intelligent, deep diving into the research that did or didn't go into the outcomes that Forks Over Knives was talking about.

And so I really appreciate that sort of scientific nerd part too of the podcast because it is really, it's great to, to have things challenged that you never thought, oh, is this real information that I'm, I think is true in applying to my life.

Jennie: Well when I was watching the movie you recommended this week, I was like, oh, I'm going to be invoking the power of Maintenance Phase and Aubrey and Michael will be present because I think if I had watched the movie a year ago or prior to me watching Maintenance Phase, I would've had an incredibly different take on it, I think. What are we watching this week?

Sarah: This week we're watching Brittany Runs a Marathon, which is, a movie from just a couple years ago. It's not, ancient, like, you know, my son said about Pleasantville being 25 years ago. It's not classic like our episode about The Birds that just came out as well. It's a little Sundance film and it received the audience award for us dramatic films, which is my favorite category. And it's great.

Jennie: I am sorry, I got distracted reading your notes of all of the other things that have won in the category of best, US audience award dramatic. And I wanna, I like, love this. Real Women Have Curves, Run Lola, Run, Hustle and Flow, like just to name a few, Whiplash, goodness sakes. So yeah, this is…CODA?!

Sarah: Yes, this is third.

Jennie: I feel like you third actually exclusively pulling. I know your…Sarah is your Screen Care's movie list, just this category of Sundance? (laughs)

Sarah: I have to admit, I actually didn't make the connection until I was looking at all of this because, I was sitting on the couch with Alex, I was getting my notes ready for today and, I said oh, I really wanna talk about how this movie won in the, Audience Award category. And he was like, “you really like that category.” And I was like, “I do?” And so then I started down the process of like, let me just look at all of the ones that there are. It is a newer, one of their awards. They haven't had this for the duration of the Sundance Film Festival, so it is newer.

But when I did pull up the last like 15 or so years that they've had it, it was like, yep. Love that movie. Yep. Love that movie. Oh, love that movie. And did a Screen Cares episode on it. Oh, that one too. And so now this, you're right, this is our third episode for Screen Care that has featured a Sundance Film Festival Audience Award for us Dramatic movie.

Jennie: But I will say it is tonally pretty different than the other movies you've brought us from that list. So could you tell us a little bit about, like, what is it, what's our, IMDB description for Brittany Runs a Marathon and what are we watching?

Sarah: Brittany Runs a Marathon. It's rated R hour 44 minutes, which is, I think long for a comedy. And that is one of the differences that you're right, you're pointing out, I don't usually pick comedies. This is a comedy. And the IMDB description is that a young woman decides to make positive changes in her life by training for the New York City Marathon. Do you think that's a good summary?

Jennie: It is true. I think that the I MDB description doesn't wuite hit on the fact that it tracks her journey of kind of self-discovery and growth, because it isn't just all making positive changes. It's not an hour and 44 minutes of like, wow, she's drinking more water. Amazing.

Sarah: Good job. You got your steps in today. Excellent.

Jennie: Good job. It's actually just a fitness track, right? Just watch it for an hour, 44 minutes. Look at that resting heart rate.

I think it's a coming of age film a little bit too, even though she is, well, I think 28 in this. It's definitely a, “her finding herself” and the way that her relationships all evolve, both romantically and with her, family and then also her own relationship with herself, her body, and her own potential.

Because the IMDB description doesn't hit on the fact. She, I think you used this term, she is straight up toxic at the beginning. She is hurting herself. She's kind of nasty to other people and through the process of following the advice of her doctor and trying to lose 55 pounds, which feels kind of arbitrary, we can at attack that later cuz he talks about her BMI and in the process of trying to lose 55 pounds, she's like, well I can't afford to go to this gym, so I'm gonna run, where can I run? I'll do a marathon. Where do I live? I live in New York. Let's do the New York Marathon. And that gets us to her meeting, new people, getting healthy, getting a new job, and in the end, both not running and running the New York Marathon and how that changes her life. So that is the long version of the one sentence IMDB description.

Sarah: (laughs) I honestly wish that IMDB would give like the Jennie descriptions because there are a lot of times where I read the description for stuff, when we're, sitting, trying to decide if we're gonna watch this movie or not. And, I'll pick the movie and then be super pissed if it's not the direction that I thought that the description was suggesting.

So I would much rather like, okay, give me like a meaty, thick paragraph with like five to six sentences describe like the highs and the lows without giving stuff away. Then I can make the commitment to the two hours that the filmmakers are asking of us. But, I liked your description. Your description was great.

Jennie: Well, thanks. Well, and I will say, so as I was watching it, the tone issue, I was, Justin watched it with me and I was like, well, this is different for Sarah. And because it was definitely like, giving me Amy Schumer Train Wreck kind of vibes. Like, oh, this girl's a hot mess and she's gonna get her shit together. Let's watch it. So funny. And so I won't lie, about three fourths of the way through the movie, I was like, someone's gonna die. She's gonna get pregnant. Something crazy is gonna happen and maybe she's never gonna run a marathon again. Maybe she's gonna be a double amputee.

Who knows? What's the twist? You see what, I dunno. Right? And so, whenever, I mean, spoiler alert, if you haven't watched this, it's in the title folks, right? She doesn't, she, she runs one. She doesn't, it's the journey, not the destination.

Sarah: Let's talk about our Screen Shares rating system. Because I think that this kind of movie could be really personal for some people.

And I also think that some people would be like, oh, it's a comedy. Let me just go immediately watch it with friends. But again, here at Screen Cares, we really wanna help you figure out what movies are really fun to watch with certain people. Jennie, do you wanna tell about our rating system?

Jennie: So our Screen Shares rating, you've got the Buddy Screen, you've got the Family Screen, the Little Screen, Love Screen, Work Screen, Solo Screen. And I think if you've listened before, you know what all those mean. They're also pretty descriptive. So which of our ratings would you give Brittany Runs a Marathon.

Sarah: I wanted to watch this with you or with friends. I would solidly say Buddy Screen, because there's friendship and there's personal stuff. And I would even say, I don't mean to put a gender on it, but I would say it'd be fun to watch this with girlfriends who actually understand a lot of the themes that she's talking about and a lot of the experiences that she goes through. What about you?

Jennie: I am with you 100% on Buddy Screen. There is a scene where she's at the club with her friends and they're in their twenties and they're having fun. So I think if there are people in your life that you would like all like scuttle off to the bathroom together to like freshen your makeup or do whatever lady shenanigans you did whenever you were younger or now, that's the group. Unanimous again, this is the second week of a unanimous rating.

Sarah: That's exciting. So tell me, what was it like for you when you watched this movie? You watched it this week?

Jennie: I did, I watched it this week and I watched it with my husband. But, watching it was a real interactive experience for me because I had the voice of my Maintenance Phase in my head and I just wanted to be like, “oh, of course your doctor thinks you're too fat.” What evidence does he have? But the movie was actually really careful to be. Because you're resting heart rate, because your blood pressure, because of this, this, this, this. Like, she did actually have underlying health conditions. So it was an interactive experience. The entire movie. I was talking to her as if she could hear me. I was like, you are fine. That friend's trash. These people are nice. What are you doing, Brittany? And so I definitely had a feeling like I was on the sidelines cheering her on and reprimanding her and saying, do this, don't do that. What about you?

Sarah: Yeah, same, same, same. I don't even know why I watched this for the first time. It was just, again, one of those things that was on like Prime. And I'm like, let me watch this. And at the time I actually didn't know that it was a Sundance film. It was just, it looked entertaining. I feel like I read a review or something that said this is actually not reductive, like a lot of these movies tend to be.

And so I thought, okay, great. Let's do it. I also remember my, my husband at the time. (laughs) I've had so many husbands, no, at the time,

Jennie:  I hope you're not listening, Alex. (laughs)

Sarah: At the time my husband was like, you're choosing a comedy, are you feeling well? Is everything okay? I'm like, yeah. I just, I love comedies, which I do, but I don't like bad ones.

So anyway, sidetrack aside, we watched the movie and the whole time I just felt so uncomfortable, for the first time when I watched this a couple years ago. Cuz it is really uncomfortable to see somebody else's discomfort that mirrors your own she does not feel good in her body. She doesn't like how people treat her because of her body.

And, she doesn't like her friends. She doesn't like her work. She doesn't feel fulfilled or loved or cared for or herself, in any way, shape or form. And that's so hard to see cuz I think all of us can really relate to that experience. No matter where you are in your journey, like, I really hope we're not gonna have so many journey puns, but I'm repressing them right now, that one slipped out.

Jennie: Don't worry. I'm gonna help keep you on track, Sarah.

Sarah: Oh, stop it. (laughs) I just had like seven sports puns almost come out, but No, nope, nope. Not doing it. Um, (laughs) it reminded me that, life is not linear. Your fitness journey, if that's the simplistic version of what you want to get out of this movie, that's not linear.

Your social and emotional development as a person, not linear. It's not like a track. It's not gonna like be point A to point B and there's nothing in between that's preventing you from getting to the finish line. There we go. There's one. It just hit me in a way that felt sincere.

Jennie: It did feel sincere. I do think it is definitely worth watching. And I did have a few moments where I was uncomfortable watching this with my husband, even though there were some funny moments. I was like, does he think that that's me? Does he think I should lose weight? Should I lose weight? Oh, wait a second. Am I empowered? Am I, is this

Sarah: Just like the mental garbage that we do to ourselves basically?

Jennie: Exactly. 100%. Because then the other part of me was basically the maintenance phase voice to me was like, who cares? You are a healthy woman doing her best. I get why you watched it and why it stuck with you.

And then though, I wanna push you a little further. What's happening in your life that Brittany Runs a Marathon came to the front because like we've discussed, our original list for this season has just been thrown out the window. We are just kind of following our hearts and our life experiences towards the movies that are most relevant to us right now. So what makes Brittany Runs a Marathon relevant to you right now?

Sarah: I love roller derby and as soon as we move to this new town, I wanted to join the team and, I was starting training and all of that, but, I don't know if it's just this, 40 year old body is not as easily able to go from sedentary to full on contact sport with no problem. Like it used to be my body used to be able to handle that fairly well. it cannot. Um, and so, I really messed up my shoulder so bad.

It got to a point where I couldn't even pick up a glass of water anymore. Something that light. And then of course, I wasn't allowed to do derby anymore. And I know this sounds like a very small thing in the grand scheme of life. It's not that bad. That is truly a not big issue.

But it also felt devastating to me in a dumb way. I was making progress towards a thing. I was starting to get back into it and um, my feet were starting to remember how to move so that I don't fall down and trip people. Cuz that's super embarrassing. But I just couldn't, my body actually couldn't do what I needed it to do it, it needed to rest, it needed to heal, it needed to like, do all those things so that I could actually do it and not hurt myself permanently.

But I hate that and I hate the, like, inching up of the scale. I even hate saying that aloud, it feels gross to say like, oh no, I've gained a few pounds. Like, okay, whatever. But I hate that like constricted feeling in your clothes where you're like, ugh. Everything feels tight.

I feel uncomfortable just existing in my skin, in my body. And I definitely know that I've had some like major disordered eating issues. There is a period, of my life where I was roughly 80 pounds heavier than I am now, and I had some doctors say some like not nice things to me and I was also having heart problems. So there were real reasons for them to say like, lady, you're a little bit too big for your, for your frame, which is not the nicest way, you know, that could have been delivered. And so I went on this whole like instant, just like I do things like, okay, well I'm doing a thing.

I'm going to like lose all the weight immediately. And I joined this medical weight loss program through a hospital. So I thought it was safe and I thought it was appropriate. And I went from like eating huge amounts of food to like eating 800 calories a day. That was it. They gave me these little shakes, they're called Opti Fast.

And that was so severe. Every week you have to go to these weigh-ins and you have to go to these group talks about body and nutrition and stuff like that. And you do these like weigh-ins, with everybody. And so I got a lot of external reinforcement, like look, it's working because yeah, anybody who's only eating 800 calories a day is going to eventually be losing some weight.

Like that's, I think just mechanically a pretty normal physiological thing that'll happen. If you went from eating like 4,000 calories to 800, something will happen. Either you'll die or you might get a little smaller, maybe something in between two, possibly. So I just really stuck with the program and, within a pretty short amount of time, they were like, okay, great, you did it.

Good job, gold star. You can come one more week and then bye. But it wasn't like, how do I eat? What do I do after that? And I was still swimming in my clothes. I hadn't even bought new clothes. It was just this very weird time in my life where I had not made the psychological adjustment to going from being a bigger person to a smaller than I was person.

One of the moments that I wanted to talk about in the movie is, when Brittany had lost some weight and, people were starting to be nice to her. You know, there was a guy on the subway that like held the door for her. And then later when she's upset, she was just saying like, I really liked getting to feel like a woman. Something to that effect. Um, mm-hmm. And that was not really anything that I had experienced until I became a smaller than I was person. And I was really uncomfortable with that attention, because I went from feeling very unseen all the time and uncomfortable, to just suddenly people are being friendly to me in a way that in my mind I made the connection to oh, well they're being nice to me because I'm skinnier.

And that's a complicated feeling that I hadn't dealt with. And so anyway, with the fact that I can't do the like intensive physical stuff that I like to do. I really do. And I know I've been making eating choices that fuel my soul at the time, but definitely are not the best eating choices. I'm uncomfortable, I don't like the scale creeping up. I don't like feeling you know, squished into my clothes.

I don't like that feeling. And so I was like, I'm gonna watch this movie again. I'm gonna remind myself that life is not a just about your body size. There's a hundred thousand million other things that contribute to your life and your meaning and your purpose and your enjoyment. And b this is just a little dot on the continuum of like my experience.

But I needed that visual to remind myself. Mm-hmm. I don't know, am I making any sense?

Jennie: You've made so much sense. Whenever I was watching the movie, there were a lot of things that you've shared with me, including going on the liquid diet and kind of the fluctuating weight and those kind of things that I've also shared experiences with losing weight, gaining weight, and varying degrees of health and not health that were, and weren't weight related, you know, kind of both directions.

And so I was sympathetic to that and I could see why you were interested in this movie and all the points that you referenced. One point that you made was this feeling of the scale creeping up and the idea that you can't do the things you want to do, like roller derby. And do you feel like it would be fair to say that part of what feels, or at least for me, what I don't like about it is like the feeling that I don't have control.

Over my own body like that my body is in some way betraying me. And it makes me think of the point in the movie where she's been losing the weight. Like she said, she felt more like a woman. She felt seen, she had all this positive reinforcement from society, but then she got mad about something else.

Like she wasn't taking care of her emotional self.

And so she went running mm-hmm. And running and running and running and pushed herself way too hard and she wasn't listening to her body and she was trying to gain control and like forced her life into being by running, but she ended up with a stress fracture. Mm-hmm. And whenever you're talking about your shoulder hurting, or about the way you felt when you were so uncomfortable in your body and the scale was creeping up and that you wanted to do something drastic, like cutting down to 800 calories, I wonder, was there anything else going on in your life that you think might have actually caused that?

Because for her it wasn't like she just wanted to run better and it wasn't necessarily like you just wanted to like, I really want those genes. Like it wasn't that, so it's something else like, yes, you had the heart things and she had, you know, the, you know, the blood pressure issues, but was there anything else that was.

Moving you towards thinking a physical change would have some kind of more spiritual or intellectual or mental change. Hmm.

Sarah: So back then, before I entered into that crazy pants program, which I would love for Maintenance Phase to do an episode on that program cuz it's a real program. It's at lots of medical facilities that are licensed. And I am just for sure that it is harmful to people.

Jennie: Well, and it, it lacked a ‘maintenance phase.’ It did quite, quite literally. It, it lacked the maintenance phase. That's why they call the podcast. They point out like, you need a maintenance. Like life is a maintenance phase. 800 calories is not reasonable for a human person.

Sarah: It's also not fun unless it's 800 calories of candy. And that's still like, you know, yeah. Like also gets a little boring after a while. Right. At that time, there were some sort of like psychological things that were going on with me.

We were living in Rhode Island. I felt very alone. I felt very isolated cuz even though now it's like one of my favorite places. When you are new to a New England town, especially a small one, don't expect a warm welcome. I think that most people who live in New England towns are of experience that would agree with me.

Like, it's just not gonna happen. It just isn't like in the first like probably year you are going to be ignored. That's just what it is. Like I, right, like would you say that that's fair? Like you, when you move there, like it was, it's not like a, they don't roll out the red carpet and say like, Hey neighbor, like you're new.

Let's go to all the things, let's hang out. That's like kind of not what it is.

Jennie: I had the exact same experience when I first moved there. No one's bringing you cookies, when they see the, so the for-sale sign is gone in your yard. I feel like they're slower to let you in in the beginning. I think maybe they're like testing you at a little bit.

Sarah: Oh, there's like a silent test that nobody tells you about. Oh yeah.

Jennie: No one tells you about it. And, but then like, once you're friends with someone who's a, who's a New Englander, they will be your friend forever. Oh. Like they are completely, they are right or die. Oh. Like they're amazing.

Sarah: Oh completely! Yeah, I think that's why Rhode Island and our little town is still one of my favorite places because the friends that I made there and the friends that I'm still grateful to have from there, like I will have their back. I will do anything for them. And I don't even really worry that it's reciprocated.

We can go months without talking and then I'll get a card in the mail. And we will be there for each other. And I know who they are, they're good people, and I feel like they really know who I am without judgment. And it's just a really nice feeling.

And yes, exactly what you're talking about. Like once you get in with a New Englander, you just consider yourself lucky, like cuz those are gonna be friends for life.

Jennie: Right. Well, and you know what, I've had the reverse experience where sometimes in the south people will invite you over to their house, but like they won't maybe follow up, you know, in a year or two years or whatever. Mm-hmm. Not being said, they're also incredibly friendly and they have a lot of really great friends in the south too. It's just a different approach.

What I'm hearing you say is you were in a new place, you were having a hard time kind of meeting that high bar to entry for friendship.

You had young kids. You kind of felt alone and your body wasn't being very nice to you cuz you were having heart conditions and things like that. And probably seizing it, trying to get some kind of control.

And it feels good when people are nice to you. Which is something in Maintenance Phase, they're always pointing out like, oh, for sure. Maybe we could just be nice to everyone.

Sarah: Like without like why? Yes. Without qualifications. Like, let's just be nice to people without any criteria.

I mean, it was complicated. I've been an athlete, like I know you and I share that in common. We did sports when we were younger, and that is something that I don't really call myself an athlete. That's not one of my identifiers.

But there is something about that that I had always really enjoyed when I was doing it. And, you know, there have been lots and lots of sports that I've tried or I've said like, I'm gonna do this thing and I get invested. I mean, I have a long list of things that I, have wanted to do, have done for a while and then stopped for whatever reason.

And so, I hate being restricted by my body. I hate being restricted by anything. I mean, I think that's pretty much like the bumper sticker of my life. Like, I don't wanna be restricted. And it does not feel good when your body, will physically not allow you to do the things that you really wanna do.

And that was hard. The one phrase that I really don't like when I hear people say, because it hurts my heart for them, is when people say, “I let myself go.” You know, when you hear, usually women say like, “oh wow, yeah. See those pictures of me when from high school, like, oh, I was so skinny and pretty then like, but I've really let myself go.”

And I always feel so sad when they say that because a) I know exactly what they're talking about. I know that feeling of what they're saying because I don't look like I did in high school. Like, and nobody does. You know, spoiler alert. Mm-hmm. When you're 40 or 35 or 60, you do not look like you were when you were 16, cuz that would be weird.

Mm-hmm. That's not how aging works, but, there are so many implications when somebody says, “I've let myself go,” that feel just so sad. And I felt that about myself. I was like, “oh, I've let myself go.” And then I really had to question like, what does that mean to let yourself go? I'm still here. Yes. I don't look like what I used to, or whatever weird metric that I have in my head as being what my goal is.

My body doesn't do what I need it to do, but I'm a person and my physical state is less important than how I'm treating the people around me and how I'm allowing myself to be treated because quite frankly, it's not okay to be ignored. And it's really even more than that, not okay to be nasty out of sort of like a defensiveness. And that is sort of something that I know that I've done before. It's really easy to put that front on, like Brittany did.

Like she said, nasty, horrible things. She was questioning like, “oh, why would this fat lady be with this skinny guy? Like, what is going on in this relationship?” Saying just really disgusting things. Hurtful things, and also horrible things to the two friends that were actually in her life and being kind to her.

And I know what that's like also. And so seeing that was such a reminder. You know, sometimes the bad thing that you're doing to yourself isn't the candy and it isn't the carbs and it's not the anything that you think it is that you're inputting into your body. It's actually what you're putting out.

It's that energy that, like negative energy that's even just saying like, I'm not worth anything. Like I've let myself go, don't look at me. And also f you. There's sort of like this weird combination of sadness and hostility that is so sad to see. Do you know what I mean?

Jennie: Oh, I do. And I was going to ask you about that, both hostility and distance.

So when you were describing your experience with this diet and this dramatic weight loss and how all in it was, and how you went from an unrestricted eating to like disordered level restricted eating. A lot of the words that I kind of hear you using in a lot of way, it was presented in Brittany Runs a Marathon, was almost like you were punishing yourself.

There’s a book I've read with my kids called Cactuses Don't Hug. Um, but it's the idea that like when you're trying to protect yourself and punish yourself, you don't want someone else interfering because one, you don't deserve validation and love. And two, they're just going to mess it up or not understand. And do you feel like that's part of why you wanna push people away?

Sarah: I think so and I think that piece about the fear of being misunderstood is definitely there because it does feel very vulnerable to share a journey of any type. I mean, even just saying, to somebody like, “oh, like I'm on a weight loss journey,” when I was, and I had to bring that up all the time because I would be at a thing and like everybody would be eating food and I would be drinking my shake awkwardly in the corner.

And so they would say like, “what's up with that?” And like, you have to share that. Like, oh, well, I would always say, “for medical reasons, like, I, I have to do this.” But it feels so vulnerable and it feels so. I don't want people to think I only value people who are skinny. How I treat myself internally has nothing to do with what I think of people, in my life, which is strange.

So I think I've always kept people away at a distance from this side of me, because I really don't want people to think that it has any reflection on how I feel about the world or other people. It's just what I'm doing to myself.

Jennie: I think that you're, you're self-aware enough and thoughtful enough and kind enough that you are afraid of doing what Brittany did, where she like lashed out at that couple, which she called like a mismatch kind of Uh, like a skinny person and a, and a fat person. I wanna tell you a story that you may or may not remember that is along the lines of what you were talking about, about kind of keeping it private. Whenever we were in Rhode Island, our kids had been in the same class together. Mm-hmm. And so we saw each other every day in, in the playground. But then they weren't in the same class together. The next, um, semester or year or however you measure it with four year old. And…

Sarah: Yeah, don't be that mom that does everything with like months. Like, my kid is 762 months. Like, oh dear God.

Jennie: (laughs) Yes. But we were still like close enough and we think we still liked each other. But Violet invited Patrick to her amazing, karate princess themed birthday party. And I had not seen you in like months and months and months. But I saw you and I was like, Jesus. Like I, I had like that thought of like, wow, you have lost an incredible amount of weight. Weight. Like, I don't know what I said, but I clearly said something to the effect of like, wow, like you look. Very healthy or like you, like, wow, like how are you doing this?

Like, cuz it was a short period of time and an astonishing amount of weight loss, from when I'd seen you. And I was like, “yeah, so like, what, what are you doing?” Because at that point I hadn't listened to Maintenance Phase and I was like, “what's your secret?” Like, it was kind of my, my thing. I was like, “how can I do that?” Those jeans look amazing. And your answer to me, do you remember what you said?

Sarah: I don't remember this at all. No.

Jennie: Yeah, you gave me this answer that I remember at the time being like, no, that's not true. You were like, oh, I've just, you know, just been eating healthier.

Sarah: What the hell, what?

Jennie: Like, no granted on me for like asking this, what I at the time would never do now. In my new like maintenance phase, wokeness about like body image. I would never ask like at a child's birthday party at all. But I was like, that doesn't check out. And it was not until we like re friended and that you told me this and like, oh, that makes sense because I knew other people who had done that program and I had seriously looked into it myself, like really, really seriously looked into it myself.

And if it was not from my just straight up cheapness, I probably would've done it too, because around the same time I actually remember being like, I'm just gonna buy the shakes and do this shit myself. It didn't work because like if you don't have the added like shame that they embed into it of like weighing every week, then it's not gonna work because I'll remember like food and I won't have any accountability.

And so all of that story to say, I wanted to go back in time when you told me you were on this journey and like hug the Sarah then and just be like, it's okay. I always thought you were lovely. And so how are you feeling about that experience now with some distance from it? Has watching Brittany Runs a Marathon changed or affirmed any mindsets you had?

Sarah: First of all, you're such a good friend and such a good person because all of this stuff is just so sensitive and the fact that you have the self-reflection to remember this conversation and to have like feelings about the things that you said. I am sure that I just didn't know what to say because I was still so embarrassed that I went through this program with these like weird shakes because intellectually, I always thought that that was a strange, not great way to go, go about losing weight or getting healthier. But I love that you asked that question because I'm, I actually don't know really what the answer is truly.

Because I do think that I'm still on this like conveyor about, no, I'm still on this treadmill of, self-discovery and being okay with this stuff because I've never really wanted to invest the time in dealing with like body image and all of that stuff because it feels so vain to me. And again, it feels vain to me because it's about myself. When I hear other friends or other people saying like, I'm really struggling with, how I feel about my body, I don't think, “oh, what a stupid, superficial person.” Like that never enters like anywhere near my brain or anything.

I think it's, I literally just feel compassion, like, oh, that sucks. Like I know how bad that feels. But for some reason we just always hold ourselves to a different standard. And so for me, that type of thinking feels so superficial and I've just not wanted to invest the time in like, the emotional work that goes into healing and learning, eating that is not disordered and, and just sort of self-acceptance in that frame, in that realm.

And so watching this movie again, was not like the self-punishment that Pleasantville was for me, where I was like, I'm gonna watch all these movies that show how bad suburbs are because I don't want to go there, so let me just do that. This was more of a like, “remember how her journey wasn't linear. Remember she had work to do,” and it was sure she learned different eating things, she got more exercise, she got hurt, and then because she overdid it in all of the ways and learned, “Hmm, okay, well I'm gonna be sidelined in my sister's basement for like six weeks. And think about the fact that being a good person and being there for other people who have been there for me is much more important than hitting some number on the scale.

And when she put the scale away, that was sort of like a turning point for her. It wasn't about the numbers anymore, it wasn't about being skinny anymore, or any of those things. It was like, let me just be me. Let me do the things that I can be doing that are truly improving myself as a human being. Sure. A human being that has a body that is gonna get smaller or bigger throughout the continuum of life. But let me not be a douchebag to my friends because they actually are my friends. They actually have been there for me. Mm-hmm. And have actually wanted the best for me this whole time. And let me get rid of these other people who have been horrible to me.

Let me find jobs that like fulfill me. And that was a really good reminder because, yeah, like right now, I really wanna be skating right now. So bad. I wanna be hitting other lovely ladies, super, super hard on the track. I wanna knock them off the track. I wanna do that so bad. I don't feel great in my clothes right now, but that's also not the most important thing.

So this was like, yeah, like a total, like a teacher like warning, watch out, one more time and you're going to the corner.

It's a like, watch out Sarah. Like, if you don't shift your thinking now you're going to become a person that's not so nice.

Jennie: I, I think it gets back to that phrase that you kind of keyed in on the, like, letting yourself go. I think that there's like a lot of ways you can let yourself go and it sounds like you don't want to let yourself go towards like, not your best self. You don't wanna be defensive, you don't wanna be hostile, you don't wanna feel like you have to protect yourself with some kind of external persona of stay away. And it also reminds me of the fact that you recently revealed to me that you love boxing movies, and a lot of the things that you have kind of on this list of different athletic journeys on our on our notes for this episode are all very physical. There's like a progression, I suspect is what you like about a boxing movie, but it's the conquering of the body, which I think then in turn is like the conquering of the self. Mm. Would that be a fair description of why you like this vein of movies?

Sarah: (laughs) It is, and I'm not gonna lie, I love a freaking training montage. They're so stupid. But I love them so much. Like I just saw Creed 3 and that movie, I'm sorry to say, not a particularly good movie. It's a really bad movie. And the training sequences in this movie made even less sense than most do cuz he like literally starts pulling a plane as part of his like, “I'm so buff, I'm pulling a plane.” It's a little plane, but it's still a plane. Uh, stupid. But I liked it. I liked it a lot.

Jennie: But Sarah, I thought that sequels only got better the higher the numbers got. I thought it was a multiplier. (laughs)

Sarah: (laughs) Oh, that's true. That's true.

Jennie: Oh my goodness. But in all seriousness, you have here listed: “So many failed journeys,” and then you have listed soccer, boxing, growing martial arts, cl, rock climbing, running roller derby. And the word failed for me really jumped out because I know that you are a successful, capable person and I can hardly imagine anything you do being a true failure in the traditional sense.

And so I wanna bring it back to Brittany. She had to take six weeks off. She was very mad at her body. But a year later she was back and she was running, she was at the 21-mile marker and she couldn't make it. She really hurt. What if she had just listened to her body and said, I really do hurt. I can't do it. I'm done. How would you have characterized that? Would that have been a failure or not? And can you still reach your destination even if you have to move your own finish line?

Sarah: Well for Brittany, I would've said she took a pause or she was like, recalculating, you know, like when you make a wrong turn and you're driving using GPS, it says, “recalculating,” not that that ever happens to me. I always go the right way using the GPS. Um, and it just takes you a different way and you get to where you're going a different route. Maybe it takes 20 minutes longer, but you get there. Yeah. So to me that's how I would characterize that situation for her. And it is so hard to apply things that like make sense, to yourself, doesn't it?

I wish I could think about myself in the way that I clearly can about Brittany or any other person who does a thing and has a little bump along the way. And yes, I'm soon going to be cleared. I think I'm gonna be starting again in June, for derby. So that doesn't mean I failed at derby. But I can go there. I can have fun. I can knock some girls down. And also just be around people that aren't so focused on this, like skinniness, I think will also be, be a really good thing.

Jennie: It sounds like that community is very much placing value on strength. I know for me anyway, interpersonal conflict can feel like, ugh. Whereas like, tell me to go run into something. Like that's why I like soccer. Like that's much easier. Right. So easier.

I don't have an answer for this, and if you do, please share it. Or even just think about it. But I feel like I'm gonna go away from this thinking, what if I just redefined my own finish line? Like even in the past, what if I'm like, you know what, I was actually done. Mm-hmm. At that point, I didn't need to keep pushing myself because I also keep asking myself, what is the line between pushing yourself and hurting yourself?

Cuz like you said in the movie, Brittany pushed herself at the end. Mm-hmm. She didn't hurt herself. She had people cheering for her that gave her that extra push. And you see that in like every sports movie. Mm-hmm. Oh sure. And then they pushed harder, right? Like Yeah. Push harder. Right. But like, sometimes the pushing harder is gonna cause you to like, hurt your shoulder. Totally. You know? So what's that line?

Sarah: Totally. You know, I can't remember things very well, like, verbatim, so I'm gonna botch this, but it was a meme and it was like something about like, are you the type of friend that would, can, can you actually, I bet you remember the words. Do you know the one I'm talking about?

Jennie: It was something like, are you the kind of friend who's gonna remind your friend that they're on a diet? Or are you the kind of friend who's gonna help them finish like the last box of cookies or something like that, right? Yes. Like what is, what is it?

Sarah: Yeah. Yes. Well, I love that because I think being a good friend to yourself and to other people around you involves both. It doesn't involve either-or, sometimes like you with like your sensitivity can just notice “oh, I know that my friend is trying to reach a particular goal,” whatever it is. It doesn't have to be about eating fitness, anything.

And I think they just need a little encouragement to keep going. Or sometimes you need to give people permission to be like, “you know what, you look tired. I know we are supposed to go on a walk, but like, let's just sit on this bench together for a little bit and if we wanna walk, we'll walk. And if we don't want to, we won't.”

And I think that that is so important, to remember when we're also thinking about ourselves. And you know, Jennie, help me get there. I will help you get there because this stuff is like, not easy. It should be easy. It's one of those things that like, therapists exist because the shit is not easy. But I think with the right kind of support and the willingness to talk about this stuff, can help us get there.

Jennie: Absolutely can. And you know what you, everyone needs a running partner.

Sarah: Oh, come on. (laughs) We all need running partners.

Jennie: (laughs) And so let's say that you don't actually have a running partner in life. We have some Screen Sparks and some questions that you can think about with yourself, or maybe you watch this movie with a buddy and we can maybe just share a few questions can help you frame this conversation for yourself, can maybe help extend it to others, can maybe inspire you to send a text to a friend who maybe needs a little support right now and to just check in with them.

So our Screen Sparks for this week, 1, I would love to know how do you talk about issues like this with kids and people who are coming into their own body and their own awareness? Because that's, that's something that Maintenance Phase also talks about. So that's also your homework assignment. After you're done listening to our podcast, go listen to Maintenance Phase.

Jennie: What were some other Screen Sparks that you had this week, Sarah, that you wanted to share with listeners?

Sarah: Have there been any people or experiences in your life that have led you to question your body? We talked a lot about this today and again, in maintenance phase there will be a lot of great conversations that will make you get there. So definitely think about that one.

Jennie: Oh, so Sarah, if you were going to go running, where would you wanna go running to right now?

Sarah: Well, it's not gonna be Texas. It's too hot.

Jennie: It's already 90 degrees here. Don't run here. Oh, disgusting. Don't run here. That's disgusting. Don't run here at all. Don't run here at all.

Sarah: I would immediately run into like a food truck or something.

Jennie: Like what if, what if, okay, hold up. What if we've come up with our new business enterprise? What if we created a line of food trucks that like just went at a very slow speed and to get your food, you had to keep up with it. So you were both training. And getting your food at the same time.

Sarah: I could just see it now with like the tacos holding the taco. They smell really good, don't they? come on just a little bit further. 

Outro

(music) Thank you for letting us share our screens with you this week. We hope that you keep watching for the meeting behind the screen. Don't forget to like and subscribe to Screen Cares wherever you listen to your podcasts, check out our show notes for great info and to visit our website www.screencares.com or check out our social media pages for great resources.