News

• WDWMagic is reporting a launch of Genie and Genie+ for the first week in October.

• I saw Lightning Lane signage at the MK over the weekend.
• Expedition Everest refurb in 2022 will be an interesting test of pricing

• Not fixing the Yeti.

Surveys

Listener Questions

From Sarah:

I am hoping you may be able to answer a question about buying Disney annual passes (and when’s the right time to make that kind of commitment). I love Disney Parks and Imagineering. I also love Disney history. I spent some time interning after college in 2018 with Yellow Shoes in California (spending almost every weekend in Disneyland). It was a wonderful experience. While I work in communications, I am thinking about pursuing future careers in travel, especially Disney. I’ve even thought about starting a travel blog as well.

I currently reside in the Washington D.C. metro area so it does take some travel to get to the parks. But we’re thinking the next year would be the best time for a while to go and get to know Disney World. What do you think is the best way to consider this decision?

The Incredi-pass is the one that you’d get, Sarah.  And for two of you, that’s almost $2,800 for a year.

A five-day adult PH is currently right at $643 from Disney. So you’d need two five-day trips each, plus another short trip, to break even.  That excludes food and merch discounts, and any hotel discounts, so maybe you could do it in two five-day trips.  You could even stay off-site, because you’d have at least ten days in the parks and can prioritize a couple of attractions to get to in the morning or evening.

From Michael,

On our recent stay at Grand Floridian DVC Villas, we found the beautiful chocolate scenery made by the Grand Flo chocolatiers that you mentioned seeing on a previous episode.  We stood there in silence admiring the incredible work with my 4 children (who are avid fans of the show), until my 17 year old said, "wow...can you believe we are standing where Len Testa once stood?"

As for my question...I'm confused about the annual passes that were recently announced and was wondering if you can offer guidance on break even points as to when to purchase APs or how to frame that purchase decision.  We are DVC members and currently have annual passes.  However, we will need to crunch numbers again to determine whether that makes sense for us with the new AP program.  

My first glance at the new passes seem to indicate that the two options available to DVC members are both considerably more expensive than the previously discounted versions.  Any guidance would be appreciated.  In lieu of guidance, perhaps you could send us something else that you may have previously stood upon (floor tile, pedestal, shoulders of those who came before you?) so that my children can be further awestruck?

Ah, so Michael’s question is different because they’re DVC owners, so they can get the $957 Sorcerer’s Pass.  An adult, four-day park hopper is $533 right now, so two four-day trips means you’d save money with the Sorcerer’s Pass.  And you’re right that it’s more expensive than the old Gold Pass, which was $765.

A trip-planning question from Phil:

I’m trying to plan a 7 day trip to Walt Disney World for Presidents Day week in 2022.  How do you handle making park reservations and Dining reservations?  Can I wait for the 60 day dining reservations date, book my in park dining, then book my park reservation?

This question isn’t as simple as it sounds, because you can only do one thing at a time. So do you make the park reservation first, then the dining reservation?  My sense is you’d do dining first, because it’s more limited than park reservations.

From Daniel:

I am traveling to Disney from Oct 10-15 at Pop Century, and have not seen any advertised discounts on rooms for October yet. I am booked with a travel agent and have been advised that any discounted room rates will be applied to my reservation. My question is do you think there will be any discounted room rates that close to the 50th? Or will Disney try to take advantage of the anniversary and not offer any discounts for October knowing that people who want to be there for the 50th will pay a standard rack rate just because?

Disney hasn’t officially started sales for hotel rooms on the 50th, but check Hotwire and Priceline.  Hotwire has All-Star Movies at $78 as late as September 28 right now, and Coronado at $155.  And there are some $108/night All-Star deals for January already out.  My guess is that Disney’s going to continue to use Hotwire and Priceline as a way to test the discount market.

I’d also check DVCReservations.com, as they’re sending out some interesting deals lately.

From Matt:

Wife & I have reservations for the 3rd week of January, 2022.  Room-only discounts generally drop in late September. As usual, we booked the vacation many weeks ago to lock in the lagoon view room (GF), and now we’re waiting for the discount to drop so we can re-book the same room. It’s usually 20-25% off the rack rate, which is a chunk of change at the Flo. Have you heard any rumors Disney will be stingy with discounts during the 50th celebration? 

I think discounts might come out in October or November too.  

From Nick:

First, have either of you heard anything about the future of Tables in Wonderland? It was a great program for pass holders, which leads me to believe that our Corporate Overlords will not allow it to continue. We can’t have nice things anymore.

Second, do you have any indication on whether the new DVC rooms for 2022 at the Grand Floridian will be available at 7 months for resale customers (members who are not owners at Grand Flo)? We have a resale Polynesian contract and would love to stay at the Flo sometime, but rooms are rarely available if you don’t have access at 11 months with the Flo as your home resort. My guess is that the new rooms will be available since they will be part of the same condo association as the original Grand Flo DVC.

Third, for trips with park hopper or APs, are morning crowds lighter for the Magic Kingdom on Halloween/Christmas party days? This seems intuitive because of the hard ticket event in the evening, but I was wondering if you had any data to back it up.

And from Tyler:

You guys have a great dialogue. Len, I love that you do "hardcore" research. The most recent example I have of this is when you were explaining the math of cast members take-home pay and rent. Jim, you have a very comfortable persona. I equate you two to "sweet and sour sauce". You can figure out who is the sweet and who is the sour. Keep up the great work guys! You've got a friend in me. :)

Disney patents

Where we left off: Walt was considering a place for his haunted house.

Development of The Haunted Mansion -- Part 6

Where we left off … July of 1964 … Walt Disney’s Riverfront Square project (indoor theme park) basically runs out of steam.  Disagreement over who’s going to pay for what. Walt’s already pivoted to Project Sunshine (East Coast Disneyland).

Bob Foster headed up the land acquisition team. Started in April of 1964 with the goal of buying up 5,000 - 10,000 acres.

Very same month, 1964 - 1965 New York World’s Fair opens. Walt hailed as “King of the Fair.”

Plan to develop the Haunted Mansion using someone else’s money now on hold. Walt still wants to proceed with the project. Now brings in Marc Davis to help clarify the attraction.

January of 1961 -- Walt began asking Marc to take a look at Disneyland. See what they could do better. Mine Trains through Nature’s Wonderland. Subs. Jungle Cruise. Lincoln. It’s a small world. Magic Skyway. Now Mansion.

Interesting that Marc came on board just as the Mansion went from being a walk-thru to a ride-thru experience. The shows Davis worked on at the Fair were largely responsible for that. Magic Skyway led to the Omnimover.

January 3, 1965 -- Disneyland Tencennial episode airs on NBC on that week’s “Wonderful World of Color.” Marc Davis & Rolly Crump front & center.

Pieces that we know today -- Portraits in the Stretching room. The Ghost playing the organ in the ballroom.

Walt now envisioned something of a hybrid experience. Guests would walk through the Museum of the World and see its exhibits as they waited to enter the Haunted Mansion proper and then board an Omnimover.

Omnimover can be traced back to the Magic Skyway at the World’s Fair. Real proof of concept for this ride system is Adventures for Inner Space (which opens as part of Disneyland’s new Tomorrowland on August 5, 1967). Could direct riders to the exact point that the Imagineers wanted Guests to see at that precise moment.

October 24, 1965 -- Sentinel breaks news that Disney is coming to Florida.

October 25, 1965 -- Governor Haydon Burns confirms the news

November 15, 1965 -- Walt, Roy & Governor Burns meet with press at Cherry Plaza Hotel in Orlando to confirm Disney World project.

Disneyland-like park is always a key element of this project. Weenie. At Disneyland, Sleeping Beauty Castle is the weenie that drives Guests deeper into the Park. In Florida, the Disneyland East-theme park was supposed to be the weenie which would then lure people down to Central Florida / get them excited about visiting this area. The Park / resort hotels would help to generate the money necessary to build Walt’s future city.

Plan at that time was two Mansions worth of Ghosts would be built at the same time (one for the East Disneyland & one for the West Coast original).

December 15, 1966 -- Walt Disney dies. Mansion is still in flux at the time. How scary is too scary? How silly is too silly?

Plans get simplified / budget gets cut. Museum of the Weird pre-show / queue space falls by the wayside.

Similar thing happens with “Pirates of the Caribbean.” Tencennial TV show that shows a model for one show scene where one unfortunate soul is being forced to walk the plank. Boat full of rowdy pirates goads this guy on. Sharks seen circling in the water below.

Set on the Wicked Wench. Scene now with just the Captain and two pirates manning cannons.

Disneyland’s “Pirates” opens in March of 1967. One-off.

“Mansion” -- Two produced. DL version opens August 9, 1969. WDW version October 1, 1971. AA figures created at the exact time. Fine-tuned Omnimover tech after two years of experience with “Adventures thru Inner Space.”

Disneyland’s Adventures became something of a lover’s lane. Free admission didn’t help.

Didn’t happen in California or Florida’s Mansion. E Ticket. Spent too much money to waste time kissing.

Enormously successful attractions. Hugely popular. Franchisable ride.

Japanese played it safe with their Mansion.

April 1983 Mansion for Tokyo Disneyland. Basically a clone of Florida. Placed in Fantasyland because the Japanese have a very different take on the spiritual realm than does Western culture.

September 1984 -- New management team at Disney.

May 1985 -- Announcement that Disney will be building a theme park / resort outside of Paris.

2nd generation of Imagineers wanted the Mansion that they were developing for Euro Disneyland to be more scary than silly. Kept circling back to 1982’s “Poltergeist.” Run-down house. Captain Gore and his bride, Priscilla.

Jeff Burke was assigned the role of executive producer for the construction of this park's version of Frontierland and, with help from Imagineer Bob Baranick and show writer Craig Fleming.

It was decided that the story related to Phantom Manor would tie directly in with the lore & legend of Thunder Mesa, the fictional town that sits at the center of Disneyland Paris’ Frontierland.

Leaning into European culture / history, a major influence for the Phantom Manor story / mythology was Gaston Leroux's novel, “The Phantom of the Opera.” Secondary plot focusing on the abandoned bride Miss Havisham from Charles Dickens' “Great Expectations.”

Henry Ravenwood & his daughter Melanie. No one was ever good enough for his daughter. She never escapes the house. Vincent Price narration.

Elements of Western River Expedition. Phantom Canyon / Thunder mesa.

2006 -- Murderous bride added to Disneyland’s Mansion.

Image: Julia Lee, who played Ann in Angel and two different characters in Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Voice: Kat Cressida

May 2015 -- Hat Box Ghost.

Prior to 2019, guests would encounter Melanie's floating skeleton pointing the way out. The vehicles enter a subterranean chamber lined with large, gilt-framed mirrors in which the ghostly image of Melanie, driven insane by the loss of her suitors and groom, appears in the vehicles, beckoning riders to wed her. Vehicles travel through a wine cellar, where cast members await to help them disembark their carriages and they walk toward the exit.

Honk Kong Disneyland opens -- September of 2005.

May 2017. Mystic Manor -- Lord Henry Mystic & his monkey Albert. Music box. Two characters -- just like Captain Gore and his bride Priscilla. Simple straight forward story. Full of effects. Fun button.

Golden age of Mansion. “Muppet Haunted Mansion” debuts on Disney+ October 8th of this year.

Just today, casting news on “Haunted Mansion” reboot (November 2003. Directed by Rob Minkoff. Produced by Don Hahn). Rosario Dawson, Owen Wilson. Justin Simien is directing a script from Katie Dippold, and the pic, which also recently added Owen Wilson to the cast, is now gearing up to begin shooting next month.

Working title: “Joyride.” Log line:  a single mom named Gabbie and her son purchasing the estate and hiring a tour guide, a psychic, a priest and a historian to help exorcise the ghosts. Tiffany Haddish and Lakeith Stanfield entered negotiations for the roles of the psychic and tour guide characters, respectively.

In July 2010, it was announced that a reboot adaptation based on Disney's The Haunted Mansion was in development with Guillermo del Toro as writer and producer. del Toro stated the project would not take place in a real-world setting, but in a heightened reality one. He revealed that the Hatbox Ghost would be one of the main characters, and said the movie would be "scary and fun at the same time, but the scary will be scary."

 In June 2011, Walt Disney World Imagineer Jason Surrell was brought onto the project as a creative consultant. In August 2012, del Torro submitted the final draft of his script to Walt Disney Studios, intended for a PG-13 rating.

Disney couldn’t decide. Should this movie be silly or scary?  Just like Walt.

By July 2013, del Torro announced he was no longer the project's director, but remained as co-writer and producer. In April 2015, Ryan Gosling was in early negotiations to star, while D.V. DeVincentis was hired to rewrite the script.

In September 2016, Brigham Taylor was hired as an additional producer.

Guillermo del Torro left “Mansion” to go make “The Shape of Water.” August 2017, went on to win  Best Picture, Best Director, Best Production Design, and Best Original Score.

Jennifer Tilly’s Leota was supposed to be added to Mansion after 2003 film. Johnny Depp’s Jack Sparrow was added to “Pirates” after success of “Black Pearl.”

Let’s see what develops.