Note: Dead Eyes transcripts have been generated with automated software and may contain errors. We advise you to listen to episode audio before quoting in print.

Dead Eyes, Episode 09 - “Neighbors & Pals”

[Swirling garbled dialogue and rumbling swell, cuts off abruptly]

Bobby Moynihan I think I was too much that day. I think I was too much Bobby Moynihan for them that day.

[Jazz waltz begins]

Connor Ratliff You might remember back in our fourth episode, Bobby Moynihan talked about how he got cut out of the Seth Rogen movie Neighbors, and he was pretty convinced that it was his own fault.

Bobby Moynihan I think I got myself taken out of that movie. I truly believe that.

Connor Ratliff Well, as it turns out, this was not the case.

Seth Rogen No, not at all. And it was so—It was funny because I was just literally like, listening to your podcast as a fan of your podcast, and then the conversation turned to me, which was a surreal thing to happen while listening to a podcast. [Laughs] Um, and I was nervous for a moment, and...

Connor Ratliff That of course is the unmistakable voice of Seth Rogen, who not only starred in Neighbors, but was one of his producers as well.

Seth Rogen Yeah. And I heard him tell the story and I knew definitively it wasn't true. And I actually then instantly reached out to him to let him know. And it was lovely to be able to give him the gift of letting him know that it was no fault of his own that that had happened, you know?

Connor Ratliff I try not to think too much about who might be listening to this podcast. And obviously it has crossed my mind that at some point, Tom Hanks might hear about it, but I never really gave much thought to who else out there might be hearing it.

Back when I started this, I said that part of the journey was going to be discovering other people's Dead Eyes stories. I would not have predicted that we were going to be facilitating actual closure on any of them. Yet here I am, talking to Seth Rogen about the real reason that Bobby Moynihan was cut out of his movie.

Seth Rogen The joke just didn't work. And it happens with us a lot, is like, you know, sexual jokes often don't work when things are too sexual. It's funny, because I was listening to the Isn't It Romantic one and it was—It's a similar thing, I think, where like, the joke just wasn't that funny because it was overly sexual in a moment when the audience did not want that. And often like horniness and humor like, do not mix that well, you know?

It's funny that he would think that even if the joke was funny, that we would have been annoyed with him, and that would have been a reason to cut it, like, like we would have been at a test screening and been like, "Man, this joke killed, but Bobby was annoying that day, so let's not put him in the movie!" Like...yeah, it was, uh, it's interesting to see how people can kind of, uh, it was so fascinating.

Connor Ratliff Bobby had formed an idea in his mind about what had happened, but Seth knew the truth. So he reached out, and patched things up, cleared up this small confusion, and everybody felt better about it. Case closed. And that's where I figured the Seth Rogen conversation would have ended.

[Jazz waltz fades, theme music starts]

Because what else did we have to talk about, right? It's not like I got cut out of the movie Neighbors. My only link to that film was that I bought a ticket to see it in the theater.

Could there be some unexpected connection between Seth and I, just waiting to be discovered? Well, there's still 25 minutes left in the episode, so the answer is probably, "Yeah."

Voice of God This is Dead Eyes, a podcast about one actor's quest to find out why Tom Hanks fired him from a small role in the 2001 HBO mini-series Band of Brothers.

Connor Ratliff I'm Connor Ratliff. I'm an actor and comedian. Twenty years ago I was fired by Tom Hanks. I was told the reason was that he saw my audition tape and he thought I had “dead eyes.” And that's the short version.

Seth Rogen Like, how much did it fuck with you? Like, it seemed to really change the course of your life in some way that maybe you didn't even start to realize how drastically until you started doing the podcast. [Laughs]

[Theme ends]

Connor Ratliff Okay, I'm going to lead with something that might be pretty unrelatable.

[Soft guitar jazz waltz begins]

It's a very strange thing when a famous person follows you on social media. It's even stranger when you get a message from them, because your first impulse is to check and make sure you aren't being pranked by a parody account or a bot.

I got a direct message from Seth Rogen on Twitter, telling me about how he had cleared things up with Bobby. Saying nice things generally about this podcast. And my first thought was that it would be great to talk to Seth for this, because I knew that even though he's a hugely successful person, he has had some firsthand experience with show business disappointment.

After all, his breakout role was on the TV show Freaks and Geeks, which was both a perfect television show and a notorious failure, canceled by NBC after only one season—less than one season, really. Judd Appatow and Paul Feig were so certain that the show they had created wasn't going to survive they produced a series finale ahead of time, just so they would have it ready when they finally got the axe. I love that show so much, it still makes me sad that it never got to continue.

And it turns out that even within the happy experience of working on that show, Seth was already learning hard lessons about how you can't take these kinds of things too personally.

Connor Ratliff You know, when something happens to you, it feels deeply personal.

Seth Rogen Really personal.

Connor Ratliff Even though you're one of, you know, thousands of variables that are in motion.

Seth Rogen No, a hundred percent. I learned that lesson very early on, in that I was on the show Freaks and Geeks, and I was one of the only actors on the show who wasn't in every episode.

And I remember the first time a script came and I wasn't in it, and I was the first—It was the first time any of the main cast was not in one of the episodes and it was the third or fourth episode. I really thought it was something I was doing and it was my fault. And I look back and I don't—I literally think Judd was probably—and Paul—were like a hundred percent unaware of it, [laughs] and they were just like, couldn't think of any like, good storyline for that character that week so they just didn't have me in there. You know what I mean? Like, it was a very like, you know, like, I was 16 or 17-years-old and I was like, thought I had messed up and was being removed from the show, you know. But now I, I, I realized that like, Oh no, you—People are just not even thinking of that shit. You know what I mean?

Connor Ratliff It's also funny that it—Seemingly, that impulse almost never goes away, kind of? That Bobby felt that while he was already at a point in his career where you would, you would assume those kinds of insecurities have sort of worked themselves out?

Seth Rogen Well, now I'm at the point where if I do something and it's not included, I'm like, thank god, it must have been bad. [Laughs] You know, like I am, I am much happier to not see a bad thing I've done than like—And I will sometimes think like, Oh, it must not have been funny, but I also don't—

Connor Ratliff Yeah, you feel the relief.

Seth Rogen Yeah. I feel more relief and I—and my head also doesn't go to, like, "It's not funny because I ruined it." I'm like, "It's not funny. Maybe I ruined it? But maybe a hundred other things might have happened.” You know? Um, who knows? Um...

Connor Ratliff You do reach a point where it actually feels like, "Oh, they're protecting me. Maybe that wasn't—maybe that wasn't going to be good for me."

Seth Rogen Yeah. I would much rather not be in something than, than have like a big swing and a miss, you know.

But now we are more... [Laughs] We do specifically try to reach out to actors and tell them they've been cut out of things and tell them why, before the movie is seen, so they aren't expecting to see themselves. And they know why they're not seeing themselves. And that only comes from learning the hard way and literally having actors show up at the premieres to some of our early movies and me and Evan looking at each other and being like—

[Slow swing saxophone tune starts]

—"Oh shit, like we didn't tell this person they're not in the movie anymore." [Laughs] Like they're, they're about to have a very bad evening. You know?

Connor Ratliff Seth has such a wide range of experiences. He's a writer, producer, director, actor, and he's really able to talk about this kind of thing from a lot of different angles. There was one experience in particular that took me by surprise, made me realize that he and I have something special in common, which is that Seth Rogen auditioned for Band of Brothers. And guess what? It did not go well for him.

Seth Rogen I did audition for Band and Brothers. I remember it very vividly, uh...[laughs] And, well, a good—I was actually just texting with a good friend of mine, David Krumholtz, who is also an actor who I vaguely remembered...he had also auditioned for Band of Brothers and he got a few callbacks and actually auditioned for Steven Spielberg. And Tom Hanks was not there, but Steven Spielberg was at one of his auditions, and I knew that before. So I was like, "If this goes well, I get to meet Steven Spielberg."

And I'd never, like, I always felt so stupid getting dressed up for the auditions. Like, I always was like, "If like, the difference between them casting me or not is like them being able to imagine what I look like in camouflage, then I'm probably not going to get this role," um, which was stupid, I think, arguably, [laughs] because it probably would help. But, uh, so yeah, I remember this happened a lot to me where like, I showed up to the audition wearing like, like a Stussy t-shirt and like, you know, like soccer shorts and every other person was in like head to toe, like, you know, full on like army fatigues. [Laughs] And like, it's one of the many times it was like, "Oh, I don't think I'm going to get this. [Laughs] These guys, these guys seem to want it more."

And they—And I didn't get it. And, uh, and I remember, uh, being bummed out. Because also I loved it! I was obsessed with it! When it came out, I watched it religiously.

It was hard because the way it was written was like, all overlapping dialogue. And like, there was thirty people talking at a time and like, the way it was, is like, like the line would be like, "HYPHEN, like, 'What do you mean, Cap?' HYPHEN'”—You've been interrupted by someone else. [Laughs] And like, it was, yeah, it was like, nonsense.

And that's the other thing with auditions, is like, they're, they're in no way analogous to the shooting of the actual scene in any way, shape or form. Like, it's the only thing where like, in no way are you doing something that is even how the job you're—is going to be done in the end. You know what I mean? Like, you don't do it once! Like, you shoot a scene for six hours! [Laughs] Like, it's like, what are you, what actor does it perfectly once? You know what I mean? Like, it makes, it makes no sense whatsoever. You're not standing in the place. You're not reading with another actor. The expression is "acting is reacting." Like, once you take away another actor, you've really damaged that equation, I would say. [Laughs] Like, the whole process is silly, which is like, again, why? Like, it's just so painful. Because like, it's like, not only is it uncomfortable, it's not analogous to anything.

Connor Ratliff Seth and I share what I'm going to go ahead and call an unbreakable bond. We are both actors who tried and failed to be in Band of Brothers. And we're not the only ones. Zach Braff recently tweeted about how he auditioned for the role that ultimately went to David Schwimmer. So, as impressive as the final cast of Band of Brothers turned out to be—Damian Lewis, Ron Livingston, Michael Fassbender, Tom Hardy—the list of people who didn't make the cut is also starting to stack up pretty nicely. Braff tweeted that he has been pouting about his rejection from Band of Brothers for decades. Still hasn't watched the show. I guess we all process not being in Band of Brothers in different ways.

Seth Rogen Yeah. I remember watching it being like, I don't know if I would have been happy crawling around the fucking mud in London for a year and a half to have said like, 10 words throughout the course of this thing. You know what I mean?

Like, that's the other thing is like I've auditioned for so many movies in like, the 20 years I've lived in Los Angeles and there is maybe one [laughs] that I look back on and I'm like, "Oh, I actually wish I was in that movie." And every single other one, they might've turned out well, but I don't look at like the role that I was specifically going to be for, and I think of myself in it, and I'm always like, "Eh? Like, would that have done...like, would I be so happy if I was that guy? Like, would that have made a big difference?" And like, the answer's no, like, almost all the time, you know?

Connor Ratliff Because if the thing is good, then you kind of adapt to like, well, I wasn't meant to be in it cause it turned out well. And if it's bad, you're relieved that you didn't get it.

Seth Rogen Yeah. Like, I remember I auditioned for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. And then—for that, for the role Elijah Wood got. And that was like, maybe the only time I thought like, "I actually wish I was in that movie." You know? But I don't wish I was in Band of Brothers. Like, I like Band of Brothers it's, it's fucking cool, but like, it seems like it was a nightmare to shoot. [Laughs] You know?

Connor Ratliff Have you ever interacted with Tom Hanks in any way?

Seth Rogen I actually think I've only met him once very briefly, like, at the Golden Globes. Um...yeah, I've always heard he's very nice. [Laughs]

[Inquisitve, steady string piece starts]

Connor Ratliff Yeah. Same here, same here.

Seth Rogen I got to say like, I mean, I will not pretend to have as long and storied a career as Tom Hanks, by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel like if I was directing something, and I...went through the process that you were describing, I would probably have some memory of it, you know? This is different. I would imagine he remembers this shit.

Connor Ratliff Well, we'll find out, hopefully.

Seth Rogen We'll find out. [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff We'll be right back.

[Music fades]

[Folky, jazzy upbeat music starts]

Connor Ratliff So I've been trying to track down my Band of Brothers audition tape with no luck yet. But it's a bizarre thing to be hunting for, because there's no real protocol for actors to get a hold of these things. But once the roles in a project are cast, it's not like anybody's ever supposed to see those auditions again.

But I realized that in Seth Rogen's case, a couple of his early auditions are actually out there in the world for people to see. His Freaks and Geeks audition was released as part of the bonus features on the deluxe DVD set. And even one of his unsuccessful auditions eventually made its way into public view.

[Music fades]

Seth Rogen A few years ago, I think when The Office was ending, they released the audition tapes of actors who had auditioned for The Office, and mine was one of them. And I auditioned for Dwight Schrute, and it might actually be one of the only times other than Freaks and Geeks that I have seen one of my own audition tapes. And it's horrible.

[Plodding, bluesy guitar song starts]

Seth Rogen as Dwight Schrute Urine is sterile. Did you know that? If you're in the field, you can clean a man's wound by taking a whiz on it. That is actually in first aid books written by the Red Cross.

Seth Rogen I don't think I ever got anything from auditioning, ever. I maybe got one role ever from auditioning, like Freaks and Geeks. Maybe the part in Donnie Darko. But every other thing I ever did, I actually either like, wrote it myself or knew the person who wrote it or like, um...you know... Auditioning sucks. It's like, so brutal. And as a director, I hate it.

Like, I can't stand being in the room for auditions. I feel too much of what is happening [laughs] and it, like, I find it exhausting. And my partner, Evan, and it's great, because he was never an actor and he just like, he's numb to it. Like, to him, it's like, It's no different than talking to like, the, you know, like watching daily, you know, any other part of the process. But for me, it's like, it's exhausting.

I remember he used to be like, after the people read, he'd be like, "See you, see you soon!" And I'd be like, "You can't say that to them." [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff It's very dangerous to give hope to an actor.

Seth Rogen Yeah.

Connor Ratliff It's like a dog with a bone. Like, if you, if you even hint to an actor like that, things are going well in an audition process—

Seth Rogen No, I remember that. I remember they like, they'd say something like, "See you around!" and I'd be like, "They said, 'See you around.' Why would they have said that otherwise?! It means they must have loved it. You know, like that means they'll see me!"

[Dramatic, building music begins]

Adam McKay I'll never forget the first moment that I saw Seth Rogen for Anchorman. I was looking for a young up-and-coming actor. I needed someone with that crackle...that sizzle. And this curly-headed, young man with a laugh and a twinkle in his—

[Music stops abruptly]

—No, I'm kidding.

[Bossa guitar piece starts]

Connor Ratliff That's Adam McKay, the Academy Award-winning writer-director of The Big Short, Vice, Talladega Nights, Stepbrothers. And back in 2004, he cast Seth Rogen in a very small role in the movie Anchorman. The characters listed on IMDB as "Eager Cameraman," and if you don't remember him being in that movie, you're not alone. There's currently a six second clip on YouTube and the clip is titled "Seth Rogan [sic] was in Anchorman?!"

Seth Rogen as Eager Cameraman [Laughs] I'm getting some great stuff, Ms. Corningstone!

Christina Applegate as Veronica Corningstone [Sighs] Shut up.

Connor Ratliff In total he has less than a minute of screen time. And it wasn't like this was a celebrity cameo. Bear in mind, this was years before Knocked Up, before The 40-Year-Old Virgin. And he only really got the role as a favor to producer Judd Apatow.

[Music concludes]

Adam McKay Judd had done Freaks and Geeks with Seth and came to me and was like, "Hey, do you mind if we give this guy a line? Uh, he's really funny. I think he's really talented." And that was it. We put him in, and... He had like, the tiniest moment, but he did that really funny countdown, with the pinky move. So even in that tiny little moment, uh, he made it work.

[Upbeat jazz piece starts]

But yeah, that was it. It was Judd. Judd was like, "Please cast this guy." And it was like, "Okay!" And he was great.

Connor Ratliff When I saw Anchorman in the theater it was after Seth had been a series regular on two different network TV shows, both canceled. And at the time I was concerned that his career might be over just like mine was. I was worried for him.

Seth Rogen Me too! [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff You have actors that are—especially character actors that you like rooting for—and then you'll see them show up in a small role and you'll think, "Oh, no. Like, is that all they could get?"

Seth Rogen [Laughs] Yes! [Laughs] The answer was "Yes!"

It's so funny to think of now, but, and it really like...more speaks to like, how, how, you know, how much time has actually passed in that time. But like, as crazy as it seems like, me and Jason Siegel and people like that, like, were viewed as unheard—It was, it was unheard of to think that people like us would be starring in mainstream movies, you know? Um...

Connor Ratliff Did you ever think about giving up? Or was there a period where you were like, "I don't want to do this anymore."

Seth Rogen I was very accepting of the fact that I might not obtain like a mainstream level of success, but the truth is, like, the things that me and Evan, that got us into movies in the first place were like Kevin Smith movies and like watching, like Bottle Rocket and shit like that, you know? And we were writers. And so we were like, "Worst comes to worse—" like, with Superbad was the script we had, we were like, "We could make this, if we had to! Like, it takes place in like, backyards and alleyways and hallways of schools, you know, like, it's not impossible for us to just make this."

And that was always something that like, we had in our head was like, "If all else fails, like, we can just do this ourselves, I think."

But no, I never had any other skill sets. I was, I've been doing this since I was 12-years-old and I've literally never had any other type of job in my entire life. So like, I have, I've never had, I didn't graduate high school, like I have, I have no other options. [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff So have you ever been fired from any job?

Seth Rogen Yes. Me and Evan were fired as writers from the movie Blades of Glory.

Connor Ratliff [Laughs]

Seth Rogen We were rewriting it, and some of the biggest jokes in that movie were written in the draft that they then fired us from. [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff How did that feel?

Seth Rogen It was a real bummer, honestly. Yeah, I was—it sucked. And I had a lot of resentment towards the guy who fired me for a long time. And I remember actually I saw him, uh, once, um, in like, a general meeting at a restaurant with someone else who I didn't know when I went up to the table and was like, "Don't trust this man. He fired me [laughs] for very bad reasons. And then used all the material I wrote afterwards." [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff Have you ever had to fire somebody? Because I imagine you might, you might be more likely to be in that position than the other for most of your career.

Seth Rogen We have done that thing where after a table reads someone is replaced, that has happened. We've done that. And like, ultimately there is some sense that you're trying to instill that is like, this is for the like, like a dysfunctional version of this is not good for anybody's, you know, like, um, and I do also think, like... Being an actor is just so hard, and like, something that I, like as an actor, I view myself as like, a specifically shaped tool, you know what I mean? Like, and it's as impersonal as that sometimes where it's like, you know, a screwdriver is a great tool, but you just don't need it for everything.

Um, and I think that's how actors are. It's like, you're trying to build this thing and sometimes someone is great. They're just not the specific thing you need. I think the more you understand about filmmaking as a whole, the easier that is probably to accept, you know, but I think it's like, when you were an actor and you just are very self preservational and especially when you're first starting out, it's like impossible to not just a hundred percent take it personally, you know? [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff Have you ever heard the term dead eyes? Professionally?

Seth Rogen Yeah. I've been in rooms with casting directors where they, where like, if you were to ask an actor, like, "What is the absolute worst case scenario for what is being said behind my back after I leave the room?" I have seen that happen [laughs] like, on many, on many, many, many occasions where I've literally been significantly—Like, that person would maybe actually kill themselves if they heard what was being said about them [laughs] at this moment. And I try not to participate in it, but—very much, but I, but other people just... Again, it's as critical as you would be if you were trying to use a hammer to do what a screwdriver was supposed to do like, that—It's just like, “Well that fucking work at all!”

[Fast jazz tune starts]

You know, it's funny. I have [laughs], I have a story. Um, that's actually kind of similar. So there's this movie called How Do You Know that James L. Brooks directed.

Connor Ratliff James L. Brooks is, of course, the Academy Award-winning writer-director of  films like Terms of Endearment and Broadcast News. If you're unfamiliar with his body of work, you may have seen his name at the beginning and end of every episode of The Simpsons. He's one of the executive producers, and in many ways, the main reason it became a TV show in the first place. The movie Seth is talking about is Brooks's most recent feature film How Do You Know, which came out back in 2010.

Seth Rogen He considered me being the lead in that movie. And as someone who grew up, you know, a huge fan of his, it was a huge honor. And I went out to dinner at his house, and he invited me over and we talked about the movie for hours. He really seemed to think I was perfect for it. And, he... We set up an audition where I went in and Reese Witherspoon was the other, uh, lead of the movie. And it was literally me and her in his office as he filmed it for four, maybe four or five hours.

We read through the scenes of the movie. He would give us direction. We would do coverage. He would do shots. It was intense, you know? Um, and it was also a dream come true. Like, again, I grew up idolizing Jim Brooks.

Connor Ratliff Yeah.

Seth Rogen And, um, a few weeks go by and I haven't heard anything [laughing] and I get a phone call and it's him. And I'm like, "Hey Jim! What's up?"

And he goes, "Oh, not even close pal."

Connor Ratliff Oh, no...

Seth Rogen And I was like, "What?!" [Laughs]

And he's like, "I've just been watching it over and over the last few weeks, like, not even close, not at all. You're, you're not at all right for this role." [Laughs]

And I was like, [Laughing] and I was like, "Oh, no!"

And he was like, "I just think you're too young..." And he wasn't putting it on me at all.

Connor Ratliff Yeah.

Seth Rogen He was just like, "I just think like, I conceived of it wrong." And he's like, "I think the character needs to be much older." And he ultimately cast Paul Rudd, who was, you know, ten years older than I am [laughs] and like, it, you know, it's, it, it, it made sense what he was saying, but, but I will never forget he literally opened the conversation by going, "Not even close, pal!" [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff "Not even close, pal." I mean like, if that had happened to me, that would be the name of this podcast.

Seth Rogen Yeah, [Laughing] exactly!

Connor Ratliff "Not even close, pal."

Seth Rogen "Not even close, pal" I say it all the time. It's still like, it is a phrase—I mean, this happened over ten years ago, like, it is a phrase I, I constantly am bringing up in my personal life. [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff I'll tell you what it's, it's devastating, but there's also something kind of wonderful about it.

Seth Rogen Well, there is! And I thought about it, because if it was close, it would be so much more painful. Like, if that phone call was like, "I thought, like, it, it almost seems like it works. It's very close. You seem like you're the right age. You seem like you have the right look. There's just something there..." The deadness in my, you know [laughs] perhaps the deadness in my eyes. [Laughs] But yeah, I mean, like, that's, what's more brutal about your thing is it seems like it was close, except for this one specific thing. Whereas—

Connor Ratliff Well—

Seth Rogen —my thing, not, not even that I would have, you know, not even that that's a movie I would have been completely thrilled to be in the end anyway— [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff Right.

Seth Rogen But, but, but it wasn't even close. It wasn't any one thing. It was a hundred things. It was a million things, you know? Um, it was nothing I could focus on. [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff I'd also say that, you know, my thing was, no matter what, it was so minor, it was so small. It just meant a lot to me at the time.

Seth Rogen "Dead eyes" is concerning, though. I would be like...[Laughs]

Connor Ratliff Yeah...

[Soft guitar and piano waltz starts]

Seth Rogen I would be concerned that was a holistic problem that may like, affect my [laughing] overall, uh, longevity. Yeah. [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff I mean the most success I'm having so far is in a medium where you can't see my eyes.

Seth Rogen [Laughs] Exactly.

Connor Ratliff You know, so—

Seth Rogen You got great eyes for podcasts [Laughs]

Connor Ratliff Yeah...

Connor Ratliff "Not even close, pal."

I keep thinking about that phrase, what it must've felt like to hear that directly from James L. Brooks. I think part of why it's so funny is that it's shockingly blunt. He's not being mean, he's just being clear. Honest, but still friendly with a kind of implied, knowing wink, like, "This didn't work out, but we're still good, right?"

Of course, Brooks was in the relative calm of preproduction for that film, delivering the bad news to a movie star whose talent he clearly admired enough to consider him for a leading role. Everything about that context and the amount of time he had put into making the decision eases the sting of the actual rejection.

"He thinks you have dead eyes," is also blunt, but Tom Hanks was recasting a day player and the thick of production on what was, at the time, the most expensive TV miniseries in history. There's a good chance that that phrase was not something that was ever intended for my ears.

When Bobby was talking to me about getting cut from the movie Neighbors, I doubt he thought even for a moment that Seth was ever going to hear what he was saying.

As I was telling you up top, I try not to think too hard about who might be listening to this podcast, but in this case, luckily the right person was, and he reached out. And in a funny way, I think we actually made a weird, awkward, very minor incident from the past all better somehow, which gives me hope that the same thing can happen for me.

[Guitar and piano waltz trails off]

Which brings me to a new development.

As it happens, Seth Rogen wasn't the only person listening to this podcast who decided to reach out and make contact. My manager, Aaron Sandler recently received an email out of nowhere from a person I did not expect to hear from.

[Reading e-mail] "Hi Aaron. I've been very much enjoying Connor Ratliff's podcast, Dead Eyes. Please let him know...[fades]

Ron Livingston ...Please let him know that if he ever wants to chat, I'd be happy to talk to him. Or if he'd like to book me for the podcast and then fire me the next day, I'm okay with that too.

Best, Ron Livingston.

[Bold funky horn piece plays]

Connor Ratliff Ron Livingston, who played the role of Captain Lewis Nixon on Band of Brothers, one of the three actors in Episode Five who shared a scene with Private Zielinski.

In the next episode of Dead Eyes. I finally get a chance to talk to Ron, and also to Scottish actor Stephen McCole, who played the role of First Lieutenant Moose Heyliger. Two more very big pieces of the puzzle click into place as I learn about Ron and Stephen's memories of shooting their big scene with Private Zielinski.

Dead Eyes is a production of Headgum Studios. It was created by me, Connor Ratliff. It's written by me and it's mostly me that you hear talking, including now. The show is produced and edited by Harry Nelson and Mike Comite. Special thanks to my guests Seth Rogen and Adam McKay.

If you like Dead Eyes, please do all the things that podcasts tell you to do. Subscribe, rate, review, follow us on Twitter @deadeyespodcast and talk about us nicely on social media. If you want to reach out, our email address is deadeyespodcast@gmail.com.

Please tell your friends about this podcast, especially if you are friends with Tom Hanks. Who has, as far as I can tell, two James L. Brooks related credits on his resume. The first is an early one from 1982, an episode in the fourth season of the TV series Taxi. He plays a college-aged stoner named Gordon. You can find his scenes on YouTube. The second is a cameo as himself decades later in the Simpsons movie. Both very fun appearances, but all too brief. I want to live in a world where James L. Brooks writes and directs an entire feature film starring Tom Hanks, or even a short one. Anything. A standalone monologue that he can recite over Zoom. I just want to see Tom Hanks act out something that James L. Brooks writes. Now that I've imagined them working together, I can't unimagine it. I really hope it happens. And you can tell them I said that.

Thanks for listening. Stay safe.