Chat Summary - Smarter Energy Communities
Jess - Project Officer @ CEL | This will be recorded, please do turn off your camera if you wouldn’t like to be captured Thank you all for joining. Please do introduce yourself in the chat I’m Jess, project officer at CEL. Do message me with any questions Previous event on Community Solar can be reviewed here: https://www.communityenergy.london/news/2022/10/event-community-solar-future-trends-and-new-market-opportunities/ Sign up for our next event, Decarbonising Heat through Community Energy: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/decarbonising-heat-through-community-energy-tickets-445973648187 |
Sydney Charles | Speaking for Haringey their targets rely on their residents decarbonising their energy supplies, with no was to help that happen |
Syed Ahmed | There are series of factsheets published by Government for the Energy Security Bill for those elements that Frank just mentioned - available here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/energy-security-bill-factsheets |
Tom Broughton | @Frank. Does REA have an opinion on using hydrogen for heat? It does seem an awful waste of energy when heat pumps are so much more efficient. |
Sydney Charles | I agree Tom. Dieter Helm has a podcast pointing out where hydrogen is not suited - plus not much of it and better alternatives for most things |
Dave Powis | Is zero rate VAT just for domestic projects, or community buildings too? |
Dermot Barnes | Perhaps this will be covered by other speakers but what’s the status of legislation regarding aggregation and sale of energy across multiple sites? |
Mike Barker | Liebreich: Separating Hype from Hydrogen – Part One: The Supply Side https://about.bnef.com/blog/liebreich-separating-hype-from-hydrogen-part-one-the-supply-side/ |
Syed Ahmed | UK launches biggest electricity market reform in a generation https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-launches-biggest-electricity-market-reform-in-a-generation |
Sydney Charles | How can DNOs keep track accurately of all the personal and business solar installation now FIT database is closed? We could not get a promising solar canopy to work financially - though before prices rose so much |
Alan Mills | Replying to SC on FIT database Q. There is still the MPAN number required for Smart Export Guarantee. |
Paul Allen | Why do these intelligent analysts still fall for the Hydrogen fallacy? The basic thermodynamic physics makes it always too inefficient. |
Chris Tough | got to agree with Paul Allen |
Dermot Barnes | Yes me too…too much ‘energy’ being waste of hydrogen for domestic heating…forgive the pun.. |
Soore | Do you think Portable power stations will be useful with the news about blackouts this winter? |
Mary Gillie | All generators should be notified to DNOs. |
Chris Tough | portable power packs think unto low tariff prices |
Paul Allen | We’re having difficulties getting the Smart Export Guarantee registered (with Octopus) for some of our PV sites. |
Chris Tough | I'm looking at geothermal from disused mining pits. huge untapped area |
Mike Barker | Neat little intro to Demand - http://www.demand.ac.uk/ |
Syed Ahmed | |
Sydney Charles | How is Flex needed when Octopus Agile can make electricity free when too much renewables predicted for a half hour slot or cost a lot when shortage predicted for a half hour slot? Surely that is simpler and already proved? |
Chris Tough | with you in that Sidney |
Dermot Barnes | Agreed Sydney…but I guess the viability is predicated on the pilot nature of the nat grid funded mechanism which is probably pump priming this for learning and eventual decommissioning of the most expensive flex load generators? |
Mike Barker | PAS 1878:2021 - Any interest flex from Energy Smart Appliances (ESAs) ? |
Mary Gillie | real danger big guys muscle in and people feel 'done to' |
Sydney Charles | Anecdoctally lots of people are changing their behaviour! |
Syed Ahmed | Cost of living: Bethesda hydro scheme cuts electricity bills by 25% https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-63287373 |
Sydney Charles | Agree that 'smart' meters are designed for pre-programmed robots not people. Octopus have a new pilot app which is much better, though probably could be even better. |
Dermot Barnes | Presumably the available energy from a generator where there is a 1st demand, is netted after the generator has met it’s on site demand? Would apply for a domestic/school site solar generator? |
Tom Broughton | Mary I believe from a previous presentation Energy Local needs households in the club to be connected to the same substation. Is this correct? |
Sydney Charles | Will the takeover of National Power from Western Distribution make any difference in co-operation and support? |
Pete Capener | But same voltage level? |
Mary Gillie | At the moment, working on combining LV and 11kV. |
Pete Capener | Great - is that possible now? Would make a big difference. |
Mary Gillie | not unless there is a battery we can rejig - part of the work in p441. |
Pete Capener | Ah OK, thanks. Makes sense. |
Mike Barker | Mary, have you heard of CalTrack - https://www.caltrack.org/ |
Mary Gillie | Needs a bit more than that as the abse keeps changing. There is some excellent work that was not in Demontfort University that could even predict bank holidays but its not implemented live yet. |
Chris Tough | So interesting Mary, George thermal is such an untouched source.. |
Sydney Charles | Will there be open data available for CEL to make more public and useful for LAEPs + community groups? |
Dermot Barnes | On a minor and macro level, in national interests and to enable Climate Act obligations, Gov’ needs to revise data protection legislation to allow open access to actual energy bill data on a property by property basis….Any thoughts on how this can be put on the agenda? |
Syed Ahmed | |
Sydney Charles | For 'district heating' is there reasonable data on private estates and campuses, hospitals etc and the type of heating they use, against close by low carbon sources of heat eg geothermal, sewage tubes etc? |
Frank Gordon | Fantastic work here on investment ahead of need - a historic change for the networks, and the previous project in Bethesda engaging the community! |
Chris Tough | Such an incredible knowledge base here which I cannot use for my company development for our communities |
Lynne McDonald | |
Dermot Barnes | What is the best surplus heat resource map to allow consideration of integrated use of waste heat and how is this being considered in UKPN data sharing platform? |
Lynne McDonald | We will be launching our next Flexibility tender shortly - encourage all to check out https://smartgrid.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/flexibility-hub/ and keep an eye on https://www.piclo.energy/profiles/uk-power-networks. To stay updated and get notified when our next tender begins, sign up to our flexibility mailing list here: Flexibility@ukpowernetworks.co.uk |
Paul Allen | I couldn’t find a solicitor who has experience of doing a solar panel for a leaseholder on a shared freehold property. |
Mary Gillie | @ Paul - try pureleapfrog |
Pete Capener | On solar panel leases and leapfrog - can be very helpful but good to make sure that the solicitor you get on a pro bono basis actually know what they are talking about and are not just using it to get up the learning curve. |
Frank Gordon | Just while still have Chat access - there were some earlier questions from my presentation – I have double checked the topics and am putting the answers in the chat below, hope these are helpful. Happy to discuss further outside the meeting with anyone. Frank Market-Wide Half Hourly Settlement (1/5): Market-Wide Half Hourly Settlement will be introduced from October 2025 (this will introduce Agile Octopus type tariffs for all and at a more granular (half hourly) basis: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/electricity-retail-market-wide-half-hourly-settlement-decision-and-full-business-case On VAT exemptions (2/5): Community groups and charities are NOT exempt from VAT. The usual rules apply in terms of registering for VAT and so on. So the VAT reduction will benefit community groups too, but they are also subject to the standard rates where they apply. Summary of charities tax treatment here (and seek professional advice): https://www.gov.uk/charities-and-tax Aggregation of energy sales (3/5): Local marketplaces have been trialled, eg a Centrica project in Cornwall. There is still no overarching framework in place to enable such local markets or aggreegation that I am aware of – hopefully the mooted Local Electricity Bill would address this, but it is a long running campaign I would suggest and unlikely to come to fruition soon (unfortunately! The best hope is for adoption via a Private Members Bill). The GLA has also been developing the ‘Licence Lite’ model for smaller projects to undertake the direct sale of their power to an offtaker without requiring a licenced supplier, but this has been stalled for a few years as I understand (though Syed/others may know more?) Keeping track of solar /storage ‘embedded generation’ installations (4/5): As mentioned the grid companies (via ENA, their trade body) run an Embedded Capacity Register – this currently goes down to sites of 1MW+ but the proposal is to increase the granularity down to 50 kWp. This is UKPN’s register: https://ukpowernetworks.opendatasoft.com/explore/dataset/embedded-capacity-register/information/?disjunctive.licence_area At the smaller scale, MCS has recorded all MCS installations (covers all FiT and in theory SEG projects, since 2008. They have just this week luanched an online data dashboard. You can access this here: https://mcscertified.com/about-the-mcs-data-dashboard/ PAS 1878:2021 (5/5): This PAS covers Energy Smart Appliances (ESAs) in terms of technical requirements for devices and is of most relevance to manufacturers and maintainers of equipment. It sets a base level of requiremnts for kit to be classified as an ESA. You can request a free copy here: https://www.bsigroup.com/en-GB/about-bsi/uk-national-standards-body/about-standards/Innovation/energy-smart-appliances-programme/pas-1878/ |
Chris Tough | LAs should work with leaseholders to allow community energy groups develop |
Lynne McDonald | Check it out: https://ukpowernetworks.opendatasoft.com/pages/laep/ Open survey to enable stakeholders to tell us what other data themes, uses cases or datasets they wish to see evolved or included in the Local Area Energy Planning open data page: https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=nCN6iJLg_kWSyNkCw2gVZwWd38dUQQ9Aol4pWovaaYtUMk1ENk5JWTc1SUhTUTZHRTcxQ1BBVEE1WS4u |