Note: Dead Eyes transcripts have been generated with automated software and may contain errors. We advise you to listen to episode audio before quoting in print.
Connor Ratliff In February 2021, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert bought a Superbowl ad for a small business that would never have been able to afford something like that. In order to supercharge the effectiveness of this advertising stunt, Colbert got actor Sam Elliott to lend his distinctive voice as the narrator of the ad.
Sam Elliott Well, Foggy Pine Books has a second location called the internet. Which means...
Connor Ratliff But then they went even further by enlisting another celebrity to personally vouch for the store.
Sam Elliott Just listen to this satisfied customer...
Tom Hanks Foggy Pine Books has the best selection in all of Boone. They have books on all of my interests, such as World War II, uh, and also books about the events from 1939 to 1945. Thank you, Foggy Pine!
Connor Ratliff Not only does Tom Hanks have a bit of fun with his well-known love of all things having to do with World War II, he also sings.
Tom Hanks (singing)...between the Baptist Church and the Boone Saloon. Foggy Pine, Foggy Pine, Foggy Pine...
Connor Ratliff Of course, part of what makes this bit work is that Tom Hanks isn't someone that we typically think of as a pitch man in TV commercials. On those rare occasions when he does make an appearance during a commercial break, it's usually because he is lending his voice or his image to a high-minded cause: the importance of journalism in The Washington Post's "Democracy Dies in Darkness" campaign...
(Inspiring music)
Tom Hanks ...knowing keeps us free.
(Inspiring music ends)
Connor Ratliff Or this ad with Michelle Obama...
(Inspiring Music)
Tom Hanks Behind every service man and woman, there was a family that serves, as well.
Michelle Obama Let's all join forces and show our thanks.
(Inspiring music ends)
Connor Ratliff You know, public service ads. That's what we associate Tom Hanks with, if we think of Tom Hanks in commercials, at all.
(Rolling jazz piece starts)
Connor Ratliff I on the other hand, feel like I will say yes to just about any commercial job that will have me.
Connor in Gout Ad When I'm out with the guys, I'll step up and order a beer, even though I know it could set off a gout attack.
Connor Ratliff That's me in an ad for gout medication. The slogan for the campaign was "For Crying out Loud." I was playing "Ethan," described in the audition breakdown as, "super in touch with himself."
Connor in Gout Ad Gout, I'm a sensitive guy. Can't you pick on someone your own size?
Connor Ratliff Some of the first acting I ever did was in a handful of TV spots for a local car dealership in Jefferson City, Missouri when I was 10-years-old.
(Jazz song fades)
Connor in Car Dealership Ad Lee Thornton Used Car Lot is full of clean, dependable used cars. In fact...
Connor Ratliff I had no idea what I was saying. And it didn't matter, because I was being paid.
(Rock and roll piano song begins)
Connor Ratliff I knew somehow that this was different than, for instance, being in a school play where I needed to understand my character and what was going on. I still don't know what APR financing is.
Connor in Car Dealership Ad Buy now and make no monthly payments until next March!
Connor Ratliff Almost three decades later, it was a regional spot for the New York Lottery in 2013 that played a significant role in restarting my professional acting career. I played a man who wakes up and does everything in the wrong order: puts on his suit, and then takes a shower while wearing the suit. But then the one thing I get right is the order of the numbers when I purchase a lottery ticket.
Connor in NY Lottery Ad 4-3-9-2. Straight.
Store Owner in NY Lottery Ad You're very wet.
Connor Ratliff For most of that commercial, on purpose, I have what could be legitimately described as "dead eyes."
(Music ends)
Molly Lloyd What's happening? What are we talking about? Commercials?
Connor Ratliff We're doing an episode about commercials.
Molly Lloyd Great, great.
Connor Ratliff Molly Lloyd is a very talented and funny friend of mine. She and I used to be in a sketch comedy team at UCB called Stone Cold Fox. We would do shows three or four Fridays a month, but even back then, the place where I was most likely to see Molly was during a commercial break while I was watching TV.
Connor Ratliff People love hiring you for commercials.
Molly Lloyd That's nice.
Connor Ratliff Do you think that's— is that how it feels to you?
Molly Lloyd That's fun. You know, obviously not because I feel like as human beings and actors, we just focus on what we don't book or we focus on the callbacks we don't get that we were positive we were gonna to get.
(Plucked string piece starts)
Connor Ratliff Yeah.
Molly Lloyd But I do feel super lucky because I you know, have had moments in my life where I've had good success with commercials. And then I, and then you have, you know, it's like peaks and valleys.
Connor Ratliff Yeah.
Molly Lloyd But I'm super grateful for them, and I gotta be honest with you, I love doing them. It's a blast. So I'm thrilled.
Connor Ratliff Do you remember you're the first commercial you auditioned for...(fades)
Connor Ratliff Molly has what I would consider to be a great attitude about this stuff. Even when she thinks back to her first commercial audition, for a job she ultimately didn't even book, it is with a feeling of enthusiasm.
Molly Lloyd ...and also it was a blur because I was like, "This is it! The big time!!"(Laughs) You know what I mean? Like, "eBay? I've been on eBay! Now I get to beat possibly in a commercial? My mind is blown!!" But I don't even think I got a call back...
Connor Ratliff I talk about show business failure and humiliation all the time on this podcast. And yet there's something about the realm of commercials where, for me, the feeling of show business failure often stems not from losing the job, but from getting it. Even if the work itself is basically the same as what I'd be doing in film or television, I just tend to have a negative feeling about it.
(Music ends)
Connor Ratliff I told my commercial agents a few years ago that I didn't want to come in— I didn't want to do any more auditions for "sports dads" because I wasn't booking them.
Molly Lloyd I think there's like I'm in a type or an idea that everybody has in their head about what that person, like, not only looks like, because I mean, let's be honest, Connor, you Connor Ratliff, are, uh, obviously a great improviser, but even you can't make up for the fact that people have an idea in their head about how a sports person looks and behaves.
(Theme music starts)
Molly Lloyd You know what I mean?
Connor Ratliff Yeah.
Molly Lloyd Like, it's so much out of our hands.
Connor Ratliff Yeah. And I'm like send me in for a sad guy in the office. Send me in for a, a boss that's not appropriate. Send me in for a loser on the lam, you know, whatever it is...
Molly Lloyd Loser on the lam. I love it. I wish more of my breakdown said loser on the lam. Mine are always like, "She wears a cardigan, and she has a raised eyebrow, and her husband's a real turd." That's all I ever get.
The Voice of God This is Dead Eyes, a podcast about one actor's quest to find out why Tom Hanks fired him from a small role in the 2001 HBO miniseries Band of Brothers.
Connor Ratliff My name is Connor Ratliff. I'm an actor and comedian. Twenty-one years ago I was fired by Tom Hanks. Now I do an ad-supported podcast where I try to figure out why he allegedly looked at my audition tape and thought that I had dead eyes.
Connor Ratliff I'm surprised I haven't booked one of those husband parts—
Molly Lloyd Turd husband? (Laughs)
Connor Ratliff Turd husband. I've gotten uh, "undesirable husband," I booked that.
Molly Lloyd (Laughs) Undesirable? My goodness.
Connor Ratliff And that's the short version.
(Theme ends)
(Groovy cha cha starts)
Connor Ratliff Even in an episode where we talk about commercials, you're going to hear me doing commercials. It's part of how we pay for things. You like a show? Well, the ads help pay for it. You like being an actor? You're probably going to do commercials. And if you're lucky, you'll do a bunch of them. Maybe even playing the same kind of character over and over for all different kinds of products and services.
Connor Ratliff How many commercials do you think you've done, Molly? If you had to estimate?
Molly Lloyd Woof...Probably over a hundred. This last year has been, you know, the worst year of most of our lives, and yet somehow in there I had a good year. I like to think it's because some actors are like, "I'm not going to do a commercial right now. This is a pandemic." And I'm like, (funny voice) "Oh, I'll do it!" (Laughs)
(Music fades)
Connor Ratliff More often than not I feel like I will look up during a commercial break and if there's a cool fun mom in a commercial, it's you. Are you happy with the cool mom? Because I feel like you are also in real life a cool mom.
Molly Lloyd Oh, thanks. I think my son would beg to differ, but(laughs) I think he thinks I'm extremely uncool.
Connor Ratliff Molly, is that true?
Molly Lloyd Well, he's four and a half. So he— we're still in the phase where he's like, parents are in some ways magic and also are like, crushing his vibe. I mean, he'd love to paint the whole house in different colors and then set it on fire and then ride my elderly dog off into the sunset, and I don't let them do those things. So I'm a bit of a buzzkill, I suppose, but there are aspects of it where, you know, he's still looking up to us and learning from us. So we haven't reached the mom and dad are the worst stage, yet.
I, you know, I'm sometimes cool mom, I have sort of moved into fairly uncool mom, which is to be frank, more fun.
Connor Ratliff Yeah.
Molly Lloyd Either dorky, like right now I'm in a cable commercial where I'm pretty dorky and that was fun. My cardigan was huge and it was lilac. You know what I mean? So I'm moving away from like, kind of cool soccer mom, and I'm moving into the mom you come back and visit, you know, from freshman year of high school— or not high school, I wish. College.
(Pleasant plodding tune starts)
Molly Lloyd All my kids in commercials are in college. I'm like (makes funny sound) but those are more fun. Is it going to be a peach or a lilac cardigan? I don't know. Just get me in there. I'm ready to do my. I'm a hundred and commercials. I play a 100-year-old woman.
Connor Ratliff Back in the pre-COVID days of in-person commercial auditions, I would sometimes walk into a waiting room and see 12 guys who looked almost exactly like me. Other times it was clear that a particular commercial was casting a wide net, meaning there was no discernible pattern as to what kind of actor they were looking for. Because in a lot of cases, they're just seeking out a certain kind of energy. Someone who can be funny and surprising.
Nicole Byer I don't know Tom Hanks.
Connor Ratliff Right.
Nicole Byer But I'm dying to meet his son.
Connor Ratliff Which one?
Nicole Byer Chet!
Connor Ratliff This is Nicole Byer. Nobody is funnier or more surprising.
Nicole Byer Chet who thinks he's a, uh... Jamaican man? I think it's really funny. I don't know if it's a bit or if like, that's how he speaks all the time, but it's very funny to me.
Connor Ratliff I didn't know if he was doing Ali G...
Connor Ratliff I met Nicole back in my early days when we were both doing improv at UCB, but by now you're probably familiar with her from any one of a dozen things: Nailed It! on Netflix or one of her podcasts or stand up, or from showing up as a guest star on any one of your favorite TV shows from Brooklyn 99 to The Good Place to Tuca & Birdie or The Simpsons. She also has a new Netflix special coming out on December 7th called Nicole Byer: BBW (Big Beautiful Weirdo).
Connor Ratliff Well, I hope that happens. I hope you get to meet him.
Nicole Byer Thank you.
Connor Ratliff If you've seen her perform, or if you've been lucky enough to work with her, it's hard to imagine Nicole being fired from an acting job. And yet it happened... on the set of a commercial.
(Music fades)
Nicole Byer I don't know what year this was, but I was still in New York, so maybe it was like, 2009? Maybe 2010-ish. But I had gotten a job doing a commercial for Belvita Breakfast Biscuits, and it was a Comedy Central branded thing. So I think they were just like, "Oh, the casting director will cast the funniest people possible." And I went into the audition and I was like, "I think I was really funny?" Then I found out the next day I got it, and I was so excited.
And so I get like, a phone call from a producer and they were like, "Meet us on 54th and 8th and get into a white van."
(Mysterious, fast jazz song starts)
Nicole Byer And I said, "Yes." And, what a good way to kill somebody because like, I truly had no other information.
So then I get into this white van and then we go to like, upstate New York and then I get there and we do the wardrobe fitting and they sent a picture to the client and the client was like, "Ugh... this is too tight." They had me in this like, spandex thing. And then the client was like, "More clothing." So then they put more clothing on me and then they were like, "Ugh!! Less clothing!!" Then we did less clothing. And then they were like, "Oh, we're going to go in a different direction."
And I was like, "Oh my god. But I came all the way up here, like what is going on?"
And then, uh, they were shooting like, four different spots at the same time, so they just used a thinner whiter woman from one of the spots to replace me. And I like, kind of knew what was up because it was like, a clothing thing. And I was like, I guess I look too big in spandex.
(Mournful guitar song begins)
Nicole Byer And then the makeup girl was crying—like crocodile tears, not like, real crying. But she was like, "The different direction they're going in... is less big!" Or maybe she said "less fat," I don't remember. And then that crushed me because then I realized everyone on set, knew what was happening. And I was—they were like, "You're wrapped today, Nicole!"
And I was like, "Okay!"
And then like, everyone had big, puppy dog eyes. And then I had a ride in this van all the way back. And then I remember like, crying one little droplet, but then I got on the phone with my manager and I was like, "They have to pay me for the day. This is fucked up." ...I've always been about my money.
(Mournful song turns into strong, upbeat rock and roll ska song)
Nicole Byer And one of the girls in the van back was like, "Honestly, this like, isn't your fault. One of my friends really wanted to audition for Ariel in The Little Mermaid when that was on Broadway," and she was like, "but she couldn't do it because she's too tall."
(Music fades)
Nicole Byer And I was like, "That's something she couldn't help. I could've just been a thinner person."
And she's like, "Nah, it's the same thing." Uh, so that's, that's the thing I was fired from. Belvita Breakfast Biscuits.
Connor Ratliff Is that a product that still exists?
Nicole Byer I believe so. It has yellow packaging and the V is big.(Stifles laughter) It's triggering to see in a grocery store.(Laughs)
Connor Ratliff So when you do see it, it brings to mind this experience.
Nicole Byer Yeah, I go, "I'll never buy Belvita breakfast biscuits, because what the fuck is a breakfast biscuit? One. Two: y'all fired my ass!"
(Slow sad song starts)
Connor Ratliff Have you ever been curious to try one? Do you ever look at one and think, I'll just try one.
Nicole Byer I've seen them on sets and I'll never try one. I'll never put one to my lips.
Connor Ratliff I never will, either, in solidarity.
Nicole Byer Connor, thank you so much.
Connor Ratliff When I first started doing this podcast, the central idea had to do with taking a bad audition experience and turning it into something fun. In the back of my mind, I thought about a sketch that Nicole wrote with her friend and fellow comedian, Sasheer Zamata back in 2013 for UCB Comedy, inspired by their real experiences with casting directors.
John Everett Trowbridge as Audition Reader LaShwanda, did you get those clams I asked for?
Nicole Byer as Nicole Ooh, child. I've got them clams. I got everything on that list you gave me.
Lauren Adams as Casting Director Ok, great. I love what you're doing. I love what you're doing. I have an adjustment, if that's okay. How can I say this? I need you to be more urban.
Nicole Byer as Nicole (Laughs) Oh, uh, what?
Connor Ratliff If you watch the sketch—you can find it on YouTube—I think it's a really effective example of how sharp comedians can pinpoint something that's deeply uncomfortable in a way that's both funny and thought-provoking.
Lauren Adams as Casting Director Hey Nicole, I need you to be blacker. Do you understand what I mean when I say blacker?
Nicole Byer as Nicole No, I'm sorry. I, I don't.
Lauren Adams as Casting Director Do you know how to be sassy? (snaps fingers) Yes.
(Music fades)
Nicole Byer When it first came out, I went on an audition where the casting director was like, "Be blacker!"
And I was like, "Oh..." and I never heard anyone say those words cause it's usually coded and like, "Be more street," and "Be more urban," or whatever.
And I was like, really taken aback. And I was like, "Ok..."
And then, I guess they saw me kind of like, change a little bit and he was like, "Your video!"
And I was like, "Oh, okay. Yes, my video." And it was, I didn't get that part because I truly was thrown.
Connor Ratliff Oh no, so he was trying to do the bit with you.
Nicole Byer Yes. But I did not understand, because it was a real thing.
Nicole Byer It was very, very confusing. But honestly, lately, I haven't had to be any other type of black, other than my black, which is truly a real dream. I love that. It's, it's a nice little treat.
Connor Ratliff How do you cope with any show business disappointments, Nicole?
Nicole Byer I try to think it is actually not personal. It wasn't meant for me and something that is meant for me will come and I'm in therapy. So I will talk ad naseum about things that make me upset in therapy. And I have to remember that like, I've done great things. I will do great things.
(Strummed guitar piece starts)
Nicole Byer So it truly is just taking a moment, stepping back and being like, you're okay. You were okay without it before. You'll be okay without this in the future.
Connor Ratliff Sounds healthy.
Nicole Byer I'm trying. I'm trying very hard to be a healthy human being and it's exhausting.
Connor Ratliff Well, if it wasn't exhausting, everyone would do it.
Nicole Byer Hm!
(Music continues)
Johnathan Fernandez What's up, Connor? Long time no see.
Connor Ratliff It's good to see you.
Johnathan Fernandez Yeah, likewise. It's been... a billion years.
Connor Ratliff I know. It's truly so strange that...(fades)
Connor Ratliff This is my friend Johnathan Fernandez, who was another member of Stone Cold Fox, along with Molly and me.
Connor Ratliff I definitely create things and book guests as a way of like, also having a social life.
Johnathan Fernandez (Laughing) Yeah.
Connor Ratliff If I, if I was athletic, I would play sports with people or something...(fades)
Connor Ratliff Johnathan has been incredibly busy. You might recognize him from the HBO Max revival of Gossip Girl, or from the recent TV series version of Lethal Weapon. You also may have seen him in a commercial or two, and if you have, more than likely, he has been cast as some version of a really cool guy.
Johnathan Fernandez (Laughs)
Connor Ratliff You may be one of the most best-dressed people that I've ever encountered in real life who's a real person.
Johnathan Fernandez (Laughs)
Connor Ratliff Whenever I would show up for Stone Cold Fox rehearsal or practice, I would look like I found my clothes in a box of things that Old Navy was throwing away. And my guess is that you would show up to auditions with that same cool sense of style.
Johnathan Fernandez A lot of what you're saying, like, when I would go to the auditions, they also like things that are kind of like, incongruous, in that I also like, skateboarded, you know? So like, I, I always had like my skateboard with me, but then that doesn't vibe with like a suit or like, suit separates or wearing vests and ties and stuff like that.
So I think that became, I don't wanna say a crutch because, you know, in commercials it's like, you do what you gotta do. Who cares? But for me, I was like, I know that so much of my power comes in just from like, the first impression they get of me when I walk in.
(Cool organ song begins)
Johnathan Fernandez And then after that, it's like, Well, can I sustain that impression? Cause I probably won't be able to, but a lot of times they already make up their decision by just being like, "Oh, this is a guy that we just want to be a part of our thing because of that coolness or whatever. And then, then they don't trust me with their dialogue(Laughs)
Connor Ratliff Back in 2013, Johnathan and I were selected to audition for a series of Lexus commercials that aired live during Late Night with Jimmy Fallon. You remember Jimmy Fallon, right? From episode five of Band of Brothers? Well, before he took over The Tonight Show, he was the host of Late Night on NBC and they decided to do a multi-week ad campaign where they would cast improvisers to come up with live Lexus ads.
(Music fades)
Connor Ratliff Four members of Stone Cold Fox were submitted by UCB to audition. And, and it was you, me, John Murray, Leslie Meisel. Which is funny, because Stone Cold Fox was not an improv team, we were a sketch team.
Johnathan Fernandez Yeah. Yeah(Laughs)
Connor Ratliff But we were submitted to do this.
Johnathan Fernandez Yeah. And then, John Murray recently reminded me of the fact that like, I forgot that I did a backflip or like, a back handspring or something, during it. And he was like, "I still, to this day, think that that's the reason (laughing) we booked it." Just because that put the—that was like the one thing—cause all of us were funny. Like, we were all doing good improv. So it's like, how do you choose one over the other?
Connor Ratliff Yeah, you did that backflip. And I remember the people that we were auditioning for thought it was so cool.
(Cool jazz piano piece starts)
Johnathan Fernandez (Laughs)
Connor Ratliff And... a hundred percent. That's why we got it.
Johnathan Fernandez I'm telling you, dude, I'm a one trick pony. For me, it's just like, put on like, the cool factor and that's it. Like, outside of that, it's like, there's nothing left in the tank.
Connor Ratliff So the four of us from Stone Cold Fox book, two of these late night Lexus commercials, both of which were filmed outside during a single cold dark night in the DUMBO area of Brooklyn, which stands for Down Under the Manhattan Bridge Overpass. Not exactly the ideal circumstance in which to perform comedic scenes.
At the center of the ad was a parked Lexus, which we would perform our scene around, and then for the final few moments, we would get into the car and pretend we were about to drive it. When Late Night threw to its first commercial break, there we were on national television asking the at-home audience to send in suggestions via social media.
John Murray Hello America, we're Stone Cold Fox, and we want you to send us your suggestions for a live improv comedy sketch, right now.
Johnathan Fernandez in Late Night Lexus Ad That's right. It's your move, America, so send us a wildest suggestions via Twitter, Facebook, or Tumblr...(fades)
Connor Ratliff And think about this. Late Night with Jimmy Fallon doesn't start until 12:35?
Johnathan Fernandez Right.
Connor Ratliff We have, was it a minute?
Johnathan Fernandez Yeah, it's a minute, but of improv, it was only like, 35, 40 seconds because there was kind of like, an intro of like John Murray saying what was happening.
Connor Ratliff And then the scene itself had to start outside the car. This is in the dark with floodlights. So it looks terrible.
Johnathan Fernandez Right, right.
Connor Ratliff It's the least flattering circumstance. It's just like, giant flood lights.
Johnathan Fernandez Yeah, looks like we're under lights at a... Walmart. Like a Walmart parking lot.
Connor Ratliff Yeah. And the scene has to start outside of the car—
(Strummed guitar song starts)
Connor Ratliff —but then end with us all inside the car.
Johnathan Fernandez Because essentially we would have to like, improvise and write the sketch after the call to action and then the next commercial break. We couldn't be in a position where it was going to be brutally unfunny or it fail for whatever reason. And then also that none of us were going to feel like we're going to curse or something like that. So like, we needed to kind of like, get some version out of it amongst ourselves.
Connor Ratliff The Lexus executives and the various people who were calling the shots for the commercial were all inside a big trailer. There was a huge screen where they were monitoring the various suggestions coming in, vetoing the ones they didn't like and approving those we could potentially use to inspire our scene.
Johnathan Fernandez We were like, kind of running through scenarios of like, reading the different suggestions and seeing which are the ones that we can do that would be the easiest to play in the short amount of time.
Connor Ratliff The first one was like, a gangster... is going to go to the dentist or something.
Johnathan Fernandez Yeah, it's like gangsters going to the dentist...
Connor in Late Night Lexus Ad Bobby—that job we talked about...(cocks invisible gun) Did you do it?
Johnathan Fernandez in Late Night Lexus Ad Yeah, boss. They put the fluoride in the toothpaste and everything. All fresh.
Connor in Late Night Lexus Ad Joey, you're awful quiet...(fades)
Connor Ratliff I didn't think it was very good.(Laughs)
Johnathan Fernandez You know what though? I think though, like, I was pleasantly surprised when I watched them again, recently. And I think considering the circumstances I was like, This is not, this is like—could be way worse.
Connor Ratliff We were kind of having to, I remember being very stressed during the 15 or 20 minutes we had to sort of work out what we were going to do.
Johnathan Fernandez Yeah.
Connor Ratliff And then we did it live.
(Groovy electric keyboard piece starts)
Connor Ratliff And then we had to wait three hours to do the west coast version.
Johnathan Fernandez Right.
Connor Ratliff And the same thing repeated only now we're exhausted because we've been up all night.
Connor Ratliff According to my call sheet, we went live for the west coast at 4:18 AM, and at 4:19, we were wrapped. It was still a few hours before sunrise, but there was definitely that feeling that we had begun to transition from night into very early morning. It was surreal. We had just been live on national network television—twice. It was kind of hard to process that it had actually happened.
Connor Ratliff I think I remember saying to everybody, "I am confident that we did not sell a single Lexus."(Laughs)
Johnathan Fernandez Yeah.(Laughing) Yeah. Well, that's what's funny about that stuff. It's like, however, these ideas are like, generated, really ultimately what they only care about is not even how much it was being sold, but it's like, "Hey, did we remember to talk about the product and that we remember to put the product in the thing?"
Connor Ratliff It's weird. They want people who are cool and funny and can do lots of things. But I feel like you're never asked to do anything cool or funny in a commercial.
Johnathan Fernandez It's almost like knowing that...like, there's no reason why anybody should have a street legal Ferrari. Because you can't use it to its full potential in any way(Laughs)
(Acoustic guitar with slow beat starts)
Johnathan Fernandez Like, you know, you're not going to be going 200 miles an hour—ever. But then it's also that thing of just like, you just like knowing that it's around (laughs) like, you, like, you, like—knowing that that power can be coiled and it's like existing somewhere.
Connor Ratliff When we return: the weirdest promotional gig I ever booked where my wife and I allowed journalists to come into our house to tell them about our home audio system. Dead Eyes will be right back.
(Music fades)
Connor Ratliff Ann, do you remember the time that we, uh, invited 36 journalists over to our home?
(Light music string piece starts)
Ann Carr Like it was yesterday.
Connor Ratliff Our beautiful West Village brownstone.
Ann Carr I mean, it's a stunner.
Connor Ratliff In the summer of 2014, my wife Ann and I hosted an all-day interactive promotional event for the Sonos wireless home sound system. This is an audio setup where you can connect all your devices and customize what you're listening to from one room to the next. I could go into more detail, but we just did the ad break and Sonos did not give us any money, so if you want to know more, you can go look it up, okay?
All you need to know for the purposes of this is that they hired us to do basically a 15 minute tour of our home to show off how we use their product in our daily lives. And we would do this with a series of individual journalists one after another, four times an hour, all day from 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM with an hour off for lunch.
I recently tried looking to see if I could find any mention of this press event anywhere. Ever. I could not find one.
(Music fades)
Connor Ratliff (Sighs) I hate to think that we spent the whole day talking to journalists and it's impossible to find a single article. We, we let them into our lives.
Ann Carr We'd let them into our home.
Connor Ratliff We let them spend time with our son. We brought them into our baby daughter—who now is...
(Uneasy plucked string piece starts)
...six, seven-years-old?
Ann Carr I think so. I talked about my love of soccer and other various sports. And you, you cooked for them.
Connor Ratliff I played Tom Petty's "American Girl" while I, uh, finished up some of the, uh... I don't even remember what I was cooking. Was it shrimp?
Ann Carr I don't know, because we have an endless flow of money that just comes to us. And we don't work. We travel from room to room, listening to different music. And we, we just enjoy being together in our house of, of sound.
Connor Ratliff Ann, how did 36 journalists speak to us? And I can't find one article (laughing) that was written.
Ann Carr You know, I have a theory that they were just so comfortable in our home that they just forgot (laughing) to write about this experience.
Connor Ratliff Ann, I have a theory.
Ann Carr Yeah.
Connor Ratliff I think the reason that none of the 36 journalists who spent time with us wrote an article about it is that they realized that we were paid actors...
Ann Carr Oh...
Connor Ratliff ...pretending to be part of a family.
Ann Carr Ooh.
Connor Ratliff And that none of it was real. And I think that they, they knew it and I don't think we fooled any of them.
(Strummed guitar piece starts)
Ann Carr You don't?
Connor Ratliff (Sighs) I don't.
Ann Carr I'm very upset to hear that this is not real. Because I really want that brownstone for my own. Ugh. Damn it.
Connor Ratliff All right, so, to be clear, Ann is not my wife. We have never been married or romantically involved in any way. We were paid by Sonos to pretend to be husband and wife. Another actor played our son, and there was a pretend baby in the nursery that no one ever saw because they didn't exist.
Warren Hey, Annie.
Ann Carr Oh, hey Warren, what's up?
Warren If I make noise in here, is that going to be a problem?
Ann Carr No, I don't think so. Can he do dishes? (Laughs)
Connor Ratliff That's Ann's actual husband, not a paid actor, the real thing, walking in during our conversation, and their interaction was instantly more convincing than anything Ann and I did while pretending to be a couple in front of the journalists.
Ann Carr Don't do the dishes. But thank you for offering to do the dishes. I should be grateful.
Connor Ratliff That's like, the kind of thing that my dad I've seen him do that kind of thing a lot where he'll see an opportunity where he'll be like, "Oh, I was going to this." And then he'd be like, "Oh, I can't. Okay. Well I offered." So there's a real smart strategy.
Connor Ratliff Ann Carr is her full name. She was a UCB performer, like me. We've acted together in a few things over the years, but I think the Sonos event was easily the most time we have ever spent around one another. And if I recall correctly, I don't think we had ever met prior to rehearsing for this gig the day before.
Connor Ratliff This is the long email from the Sonos event:
"We're getting everything together for this week's Sonos event in the West Village."
Then they gave us "The Seven W's."
Ann Carr (Laughs)
Connor Ratliff The Who is Sonos. And the Where will be in Chelsea in a three-story brownstone. When: we had a dress rehearsal on Wednesday afternoon at three. We walk through the script, we test the equipment, get familiar with our scripts. The What: "You'll be walking the visitors through the house, as if you are a family. The key we need is for everyone to just be relaxed and have fun interacting with one another. They want you to feel like a family and they want the visitors to feel like they're visiting old friends."
(Soft swinging solo piano with percussion comes in)
Connor Ratliff And then they have all these music cues that when they came in, we would be listening to "Fly Me To The Moon" by Sinatra in the entrance parlor.
Ann Carr Oh my god. Now it's coming back. But I'd washed it from my memory.
Connor Ratliff There's our son's room, which is homework music, and they're playing Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture.
Ann Carr (Laughs)
Connor Ratliff The baby's room—we had a baby—has a Pandora station for lullabies.
Ann Carr (Laughs)
Connor Ratliff So there's no baby, right? There's no, there's no, baby. You just say the baby's asleep?
Ann Carr Just the ludicrousness of this is just... really coming back to me. I can't even, I cannot even... Yeah. I remember going in and I think I remember saying something like, "Oh, shhh. The baby, the baby's asleep." Why would you even go in there, if there was a chance your child was sleeping? You wouldn't even try to go in. Cause they might wake up.
(Music fades)
Connor Ratliff And then we're back to the, we're still in The Seven W's. The Why: ...Oh, they're getting, they're getting cute in this email, now. It says, "Why. Why not?" (Sighs) That's exhausting. I find that joke in the email, just exhausting. After each 15 minute engagement, the journalist will be led to a holding area, either behind the house or in a larger room where they will meet the clients and discuss the products.
Ann Carr I mean, did they really think this was our home? I didn't think so.
Connor Ratliff That was, I think, what was so exhausting to me, was immediately realizing, that these journalists were, I mean, by nature, skeptical.
(Trading fours jazz bass and drums starts)
Connor Ratliff I remember thinking, Oh, this isn't going to work and we have to do this four times an hour.
Ann Carr (Laughs) I remember that too.
Connor Ratliff Every time we refreshed, it felt worse, because it wasn't like we were doing comedy for them. So we were just annoying these journalists.
Ann Carr(Laughs)
Connor Ratliff At the beginning of each loop, we were able to keep it pretty natural for a minute or so, just making small talk. But as soon as we had to pivot to the first beat of the interactive tour, which was when our son comes downstairs and asks us for help with this school project, it was pretty obvious to us that most of the journalists immediately figured out that it was fake. But we couldn't break character, so we had to just keep going.
A few of the journalists seem pretty annoyed, especially by the end of it, when we would celebrate our son, finishing his schoolwork by playing Alice Cooper's "Schools Out," while we broke into an impromptu dance party.
Others seemed kind of bored or bemused. I remember one person and I don't recall which outlet they worked for, who seemed genuinely delighted by it, but I'm not sure if that means he was fooled. I think for that guy, it may have been more like suspending his disbelief to enjoy a theme park ride or Renaissance fair.
(Music ends)
Connor Ratliff I don't think we ever got like, punchy or incoherent, but like, the Groundhog Day effect of it all became very pronounced in the second half of the day. You hear about The Shining with Stanley Kubrick, how the takes you see in the movie of Jack Nicholson or Shelley Duvall that are so intense and they're going crazy, and it's because they've done the same scene dozens of times... you know, that is how it felt.
Ann Carr Oh, like you're literally going insane.
Connor Ratliff Do you remember how much we got paid for that full day?
Ann Carr I was trying to think of that. I can't remember. I don't think it was worth it, though. (Laughing)
Connor Ratliff We did it for $350.
Ann Carr Oh my god. Why? And also, weren't we supposed to get a...(laughs) somebody was like, we were supposed to get a speaker or something.
Connor Ratliff Yeah. At the end of the day, the Sonos people said they were really happy with us—
Ann Carr (Laughing)
Connor Ratliff —and they were going to be sending us all Sonos systems for our homes to use. And as far as I know, because the gig was booked through UCB. And they sent one to UCB's office and they didn't send any for us. So...
Ann Carr So, I think they were talking about the royal you. (Laughs) They were like, "Oh, you as a UCB person, we're going to send this—" No, I mean, I think they were full of... full of it, but...
Connor Ratliff They owe us a Sonos.
Ann Carr They owe us a Sonos.
Connor Ratliff They owe us a Sonos, and—
Ann Carr Well, and it's not going to be a 2014 Sonos. It's gotta be a 2021 Sonos...
(Slow melancholy piano piece starts)
Connor Ratliff Absolutely not.
Ann Carr At least.
Connor Ratliff A 2014 Sonos system would be not only unacceptable, it would be a calculated insult at this point.
Ann Carr (Laughs)
Connor Ratliff If anyone at Sonos is listening, and wants to make this right, my DMs are open. But I'm not sure that even getting the free sound systems we were promised would make us feel any better about the strange and exhausting experience we went through that day.
Ann Carr Well, I remember just looking—being in awe of the house and thinking I will never have anything this nice in my life, (laughing) but I have to remember that I have to pretend to be this person. And I felt like a liar, you know? I mean, basically what we do, we do lie for a living.
Connor Ratliff Yeah. Well, because you know, there is that thing about like, acting being lying, but not really because you're upfront, you go to a play, you go to a movie. You're not tricking anybody, you know, like...
Ann Carr Exactly.
Connor Ratliff Everyone's in on it, so it's not really a lie, it's, it's pretending. But we were supposed to be tricking these journalists.
Ann Carr I don't know. I felt like a con artist. I felt very...not comfortable. Not comfortable.
Connor Ratliff The Sonos gig was still more money in a single day than I would've made in an entire week at my bookstore job. So in that sense, I don't fully regret it, but I do sort of look back at the whole experience and think, I wish I could have said no to that.
(Music ends)
Molly Lloyd Do you have that attitude in life about other things? Or is it strictly commercials?
Connor Ratliff This is Molly Lloyd, again.
It's only in hindsight, as I've been reflecting on it, that I've kind of been like, "No, I didn't like that one. No, my feet hurt all day when I did that one. No—" you know, there's things where I'll, I'll look back and be like, "That wasn't what I really wanted to be doing," or, you know.
Molly Lloyd Is it your experience on the set itself gives you bad memories, or just the sort of like, the umbrella of like, "I have to shoot a commercial. It's 30 seconds. Nobody watches commercials anyway." Like, is it that kind of thing? Like you get yourself into a headspace where you're like, "This is all bullshit."
Connor Ratliff I just tend to have kind of a slightly sour outlook—
Molly Lloyd Mhm.
Connor Ratliff —when I look back. And I don't think that that is useful or helpful to me overall. I don't think it's like, like, I think it would be a lot better if I had a little bit more of the, the outlook of like, "Hey, you're working."
Molly Lloyd Yes! I think so. Um, I'm also not wearing rose colored glasses. Like, I know that the advertising world is... has a lot of dark sides. It's (laughs) it's pushing toys on our children. It's pushing alcohol on our teenagers. It's— you know what I mean? Like we, I think, I think that I would never say, "This is great. I feel completely fulfilled. Every bone in my body says yes to advertising." Right? Like, I would never say that. Because I also see that like, we're doing commercials because it's an awesome way to pay the bills. You get to work with great people. I've worked with like, Oscar-winning filmmakers and stuff. Like, it's how everybody pays the bills.
Connor Ratliff I did these commercials when I was a little kid.
Molly Lloyd I remember that, yes.
Connor Ratliff And they were a real fun couple of days. And I remember, I was like, "Hey, I got a little money," and I don't remember what I spent it on. I probably spent it on books or toys or something, but it was a hundred percent positive experience.
Molly Lloyd Right.
Connor Ratliff And I don't know when I lost that, like why I can't just be like (laughing) "Hey, this is kind of neat!"
Molly Lloyd Also when you're a kid, the commercial set in the commercial experience was a novel concept. It felt like, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to be on TV." And maybe at this point—this is just me spitballing here—but maybe at this point, you're sort of like, "But that's not what I want to be doing." When you're a kid, you're like, "I want to be doing anything but go to school." And maybe now you're like, "I'd rather go to school than shoot this commercial. Like, dear god in heaven."
(Slow synth organ and whistling song starts)
Connor Ratliff Oh, no, I don't want to go to school. I just sound like a complainer now because I don't want that either.
Molly Lloyd Commercials to me don't feel like the opposite experience of doing film and television. They feel like they're all part of the package. Like, we do commercials to be able to work with new and funny people and talented people and to support us while we audition. And it's all part of it. It's all part of keeping this business called show in our life.
And the other part of me is like, life is too short to do shit that makes you that unhappy or unfulfilled or... it's not for you. But otherwise I think that there are a ton of benefits for doing commercials. Obviously, it's, it's very nice to pay your mortgage and send your kid to school. But if it feels like shit to you, don't do it. Don't do it. Trust your gut.
(Music fades)
Connor Ratliff Eh, I need to do it though.
(Upbeat jazz tune starts)
Connor Ratliff I gotta do it, I gotta do it.
Molly Lloyd You gotta do it? What— Connor, why do you feel like you have to do it?
Connor Ratliff Back in the year 2000, when I was cast in the role of Private Zielinski in Band of Brothers, I thought that was the thing that was going to set me on the path to joining the Screen Actors Guild. But it wasn't, it was commercials, 13 years later, that finally qualified me to join the Union And most years it has been commercials that kept me from losing my SAG health insurance.
It's not the work I'm proudest of. It's not the work that I think back fondly on, years later. But it's where I started. And it's the work that has allowed me to keep acting for a living. It has sustained me at times when nothing else was happening for me professionally. And despite all my whining and complaining, deep down I am grateful for it.
Even though I hate it.
Connor Ratliff If you had two jobs that were sort of like, you got the same amount of money and one of them was a commercial and one of them was like a film or a TV show, which way would you go?
Molly Lloyd I would, I mean, I don't know why I hesitated. I would do film or television.
Connor Ratliff Alright.
Molly Lloyd There's no question. The commercial story is 30 seconds long, right? Whereas film and television, you get to be a part of telling a much longer story, and that is incredibly gratifying.
Connor Ratliff Now, what if you thought there was a reasonable chance that it was the beginning of like, a years long, iconic campaign, would that change things at all?
Molly Lloyd Yeah, I'd have to look at everything. And really weigh it. Yeah, if I got offered a campaign that could pay for my kid's first two years in college?
Connor Ratliff Have there been big campaigns that have slipped out of your fingers? Like has, have you ever auditioned for any iconic characters, like Wendy ever audition for actual Wendy?
Molly Lloyd Yes.
Connor Ratliff You did?
Molly Lloyd (Laughs) Yeah, I did. I didn't book it obviously. Yes. I, I went in for Wendy. I didn't go in for Flo, although that would be a great gig.
Connor Ratliff Yeah.
Molly Lloyd Have you?
Connor Ratliff Uh...yeah—
Molly Lloyd Oh yes! I remember. KFC, right?
Connor Ratliff Yeah. Almost.
Molly Lloyd That was close.
(Music ends)
(Aimee Mann's "Freeway" begins)
Connor Ratliff On our next episode, the story of how I came this close to becoming Colonel Sanders, the spokescharacter for Kentucky Fried Chicken, and was rejected—twice. A deep dive into a saga which features many actors getting their hopes up, only to be dashed on a wave of secret herbs and spices.
Dead Eyes is a production of Headgum Studios. It was created by me, Connor Ratliff. It's written by me, and it's mostly me that you hear talking, including now.
The show is produced and edited by Harry Nelson and Mike Comite, with production assistance from Jordan Allyn and Megan Sarnacki.
Special thanks to my guests Molly Lloyd, Nicole Byer, Johnathan Fernandez, Ann Carr, and also Ann Carr's actual husband, who is not me.
Also, thanks to Aimee Mann for letting us use this song that's playing in the background. It's called "Freeway," and it can be found on her 2008 album @#%&*! Smilers.
If you like Dead Eyes, please do all of the things that podcasts tell you to do. Subscribe, rate, review, follow us on Twitter @deadeyespodcast, and talk about us nicely on social media. If you want to reach out the email is deadeyespodcast@gmail.com.
Please tell your friends about this show, especially if you are friends with Tom Hanks, who plays an ambitious advertising executive in the 1986 movie Nothing In Common, in which he co-stars with Jackie Gleason. It's most commonly described as being about a father and son coming to terms with each other in adulthood, and it definitely is that, but a lot of this film is about working at an ad agency. We see pitch meetings, brainstorming sessions, filming on a soundstage, dealing with actors on set, the whole process. In the end, Tom Hanks's character decides that there are more important things in life than making commercials.
Sorry to spoil the movie, but it came out 35 years ago. You had plenty of time.
Thanks for listening. Be smart. Stay safe.