Ep. 186 - Demystifying the World of Podcasting: How Podcasts Can Help Business, Do Guests Get Paid, Podcast Networks Hard Truths, and How TF Call Her Daddy Inked a $60M Deal with Spotify

What's up everybody? Welcome back to the show. I am so excited for another solo episode. I've been wanting to do this one for months, and I just really needed the downtime to map it out. And let me tell you, I mapped it out. We are talking about demystifying the podcast world. So to give you some background and context, I have had my podcast for five years, and it started just as a creative hobby.

I tried blogging, I tried videography, I tried to make like a niche. Instagram and podcasting was one thing that really stuck with me, and now I figured out years later, I'm a verbal processor. So that makes a lot of sense why I love it and why I kept it going for so long. And so before that, I never had planned.

To turn my podcast into something that could help me with business. So for like three years, I was just doing it for fun. It was just like, I like to talk to people. I'm curious, I like to process the world through verbalizing things. And that was that. Then if you know, um, what my first business was, it was actually like life and mindset coaching, and I opened up my first course enrollment.

I was like, you know what? I would be really happy if three people signed up, five people would be a stretch goal. Like I would be elated if five people signed up and I had 20 people sign up. And I was like, where the fuck did all these people come from? And I would say 95% of them were like, I've been listening to your podcast for years, and now that you have a business, I'm so excited to support you and learn from you.

So that's when the wheels started spinning of like, okay, maybe this podcast thing could actually help people with business and still express their person. So while I was life and mindset coaching, I was always developing the idea of podcast coaching in the back of my mind. And then one day I threw it up on Instagram Stories.

I was like, Hey, I'm considering teaching people how to podcast and launch a podcast. If you're interested, just let me know in the dms and we'll talk about it. I immediately got four messages, like that day that people were like, I'm ready to book. Like, where do I sign up? I'm like, oh shit, . This was just an idea.

I didn't realize that people were so serious about wanting to start a podcast. So then that's when it really clicked. Okay, I can be a facilitator of helping people launch their podcasts and then grow them and monetize. Now I'm someone too that I don't like to teach something until I've lived it myself and can give you the experience.

So when I talked about monetizing, it wasn't until I actually had monetized with a brand partner. So I monetize now with brand partners, with affiliates, with discounts on trips. So I have a lot of experience now myself as a podcaster. But also, if you didn't know this, I used to work in influencer and content marketing for six years.

That was my corporate job for most of my. It was a software company that housed all these influencers and content creators. And then a brand would come to us and say, you know, hey, we're launching a new snack. We need mom bloggers that are aged, you know, 28 37 based in the Midwest that go to this specific grocery store.

Can you help us find them? That's what our software did. So I was a salesperson. I was not an account manager, but I did have to look at the influencers to make proposals and send ideas to the client. So a lot of my work was creative strategy, content strategy, pitching ideas for activations, like how could this campaign actually look?

And then on the sales side, Putting together the numbers and crunching the numbers and seeing how their budget fit into what they were trying to do, how they could get the max results. It was really consulting. So it's really interesting that if we look full circle, that my career has kind of come back to that, but just doing it with podcasting, like aligning your goals and figuring out how to use content and podcasting to get there.

So while I was working in the influencer and content marketing, I acquired so much knowledge, not only about digital marketing and influencer marketing, but SEO content strategy, affiliate marketing, um, owned content, paid content, earned content, like anything that had to do with content. I learned about.

What's even more interesting is if we go back on this timeline and, and time travel back to like 2013. I got my masters at Loyola Chicago for digital media and storytelling. And when I tell people that, they're like, oh, storytelling. What is that? Like children's books. I. Yeah, I paid thousands of dollars to learn how to make children's books.

What the fuck? No. I learned how to story tell through audio, through video, through data, through photos. So all my classes were project based. It was like, Hey, you're gonna go make a video commercial. Hey, you're gonna go make a narrated podcast. Hey, you're gonna go build a website for a client that needs.

Which I loved. It was my favorite ever educational, um, route that I've ever taken because it was so hands on and creative. I loved going to class. Like it never felt, it never felt bad or miserable or anything. Maybe the video class because the guy was really hard and I hated making video. But everything else I absolutely.

So that's how I got into the influencer and content marketing job because I had that background. And what was interesting is I was going to school while I was working, so I was working full-time, and then I would go to my grad school at night and these jobs really complimented each other. So literally while I was learning about SEO in my grad school, All of a sudden at work, we would have a training on seo and then I would be selling SEO to clients.

So it really helped me excel very fast in my career, and I definitely credit that to being in school at the same time that I was learning My job also kind of operated as a startup. Because we were really on the cusp of influencer marketing, and then we realized that brands needed content for their own channels.

So this is where you might wanna pause, take out a notebook, start jotting down some notes. But this is paid, earned, and owned content 1 0 1. So owned content is content that is on a brand site that they own. So like a brand blog, brand photography, brand imagery, anything like that. Like when you go to a website and you look at their photos, that is called owned media because they own it.

Paid is where they're paying for someone to create content for them, like an influencer or paid, um, advertising, like using their owned assets and putting it behind Facebook ads or Instagram ads. And then earned is when someone just shouts them out without them having to tell them or pay them. So, for example, you guys know I'm obsessed with Focus Mate.

Before I even reached out to Focus Mate to be an affiliate or have tailor the CEO on the podcast, I was just constantly shouting them out on social media. They did not ask me to do that. It's just because I love the product so much. So that's called Earned Media because they earned it, right? They didn't have to do anything for it.

So when you're shouting out brands and you're like, oh my God, I love this brand, and tagging them on Instagram and they didn't ask you to do it or pay you, that's called earned. So we learned about these three different buckets and then we sold them to, to people. So again, we had to come up with very creative solutions and very custom solutions for each client with their budget.

So I'm gonna peel back the layers today of how advertising and digital media works and how podcasting fits into that world. Because I was so focused on social media when I was in that. , but it actually helped me a lot when I started my podcast because digital really mirrors the audio world too. I mean, if you see now, if you go to newspapers online, they now have a section where you can listen to the article, which I think is fascinating.

So again, audio and digital to me, are like cousins. They really do compliment each other. So I have a very deep extension, extensive knowledge of this whole industry, and I realize podcasting can feel.  a little bit mystical, and I don't think it's that mystical anymore. I think people have figured out, you know, how it works and what it does for you and like the, the empires that are built from podcasting.

But I don't think people understand how podcast networks work, how landing big guests work, how people actually make careers out of this. What it can do for your business. How do you partner with brands? Like those are things I think are still, it's just scattered throughout the. So I condense that all down in today's episode, and I'm gonna demystify the podcast world.

So let's get right into it. I'm gonna start with how do, how does getting guests work? Okay? So I'm talking about if you're a podcast host and you wanna know, how do I reach out to this person, right? I follow this amazing therapist on Instagram, and I want them to come on my podcast because I talk about mental health, for example.

First and foremost, people love talking about themselves. So immediately you probably have a 95% percent chance of that person saying yes. That's just first and foremost. Secondly, how do you actually get them on? Reach out to them. You email them, you DM them, you go to their contact page. Whatever way you can figure out to contact them, that's how you're gonna get in touch with them.

And then you create a tailored pitch. So you're not gonna say, Hey Chelsea, love your work. Would love to have you on my podcast. Thanks, bye. No, you need to figure out. What value do they bring to your life and what value are you trying to share with your audience so that they can start to connect the dots of how them spending 45 minutes to an hour with you would make sense?

Because here's like mystic demystifying tip number one. You don't pay guests to come on. We'll get to this in a second, how that's kind of changing. But right now, as of December, 2022, when I'm recording this, you do not have to pay guests to come on your show. So when you think about that, you're asking someone to take 45 minutes to 60 minutes of their time, maybe a little less to come on your show, and they need to know that it's worth that hour of.

That's an hour of time. They could be handling one-on-one clients. They could be pitching themselves. They could be working on new copy for their website to attract ideal clients, right? That hour could be done doing anything else, so how are they going to bring value to your show? That would be worth their time.

That's what you need to work on with your tailored pitches. Also be smart about your connections. Ask for intros instead of cold emailing. And I'll give you an example right here, Gabby Bernstein. I had her on my podcast in summer of 2020, and my podcast was not that big. Full transparency. Right now I have a lot of total downloads, but I don't have a lot of total downloads per episode.

So I knew that analytics were not gonna be the thing that was going to impress Gabby Bernstein's. Because if they ask for like my total downloads per episode or average monthly downloads, they really weren't that high. They were like 200 or 300. So I remember interviewing someone on my podcast who we were talking about spirituality and manifestation.

And she had said something about how Ga Gabby Bernstein had just come on her podcast to talk about this concept. And I remember at that time I had been trying to email Gabby's team and get ahold of her, and I was like, maybe I'm just talking to the wrong person. So after that interview with the girl that had Gabby Bernstein on, I reached out to her thanking her for the time on the episode, and then I was like, Hey, oh my gosh, I've actually been trying to interview Gabby about X, Y, Z.

Could you just put me in contact with her? And then she actually made an introduction and she made an introduction to like Gabby's executive assistant that got us an interview and that's how I used my connections. So that's what I'm talking about. If you know someone who's had a guest on their podcast and you know that host, ask for an intro instead of cold pitching them.

because connections always disarm people, right? Like Gabby's executive assistant introducing us clearly means that her executive assistant vetted me before, so it disarmed Gabby to being like, oh yeah, let's hop on a call. I don't need to look at your analytics because my assistant's already vetted you.

So when you use connections like that, it's the same thing. You're disarming someone and saying, okay, you know this, this person isn't trying to exploit me or manipulate me, or like use my free time and waste it. This is someone that, because of the connection they made that I trust, I'm happy to be on their podcast.

Now one thing here, this is a hard truth. I'm gonna use some hard truths throughout this episode too. Some people will say no, and it's not because they don't like your content or they think you're a bad host, so they, they don't think they know what you're talking about. It's usually because they're truly busy or they don't see the alignment or they're thinking of bigger exposure.

And I'll give you another example. I've been trying to get Melissa Wood Health on my podcast for three years. I have like hounded down her team to the point where her team basically knew who I was. They're like, haven't you emailed us before? And we like said, we're too busy right now . And uh, I'm a squeaky wheel.

Like I'm the squeaky wheel and squeaky wheels get the oils. So I will keep following up basically until she says yes. I do not take Melissa's teams. No, by the way, cuz it's not her talking to me, it's her team. I don't take. As a hard no. I'm like, oh, it's just a not yet. And I understand because of how big she is, right?

She has 1 million followers on Instagram. She just launched a new platform full of new concepts and ideas and marketing. She launched a new product, like she just did a whole completely transformation, whole complete transformation of her platform. So right now, I know that when she's thinking about an hour of her free time to be used, she probably is thinking of larger podcasts where they will ask for analytics.

And again, my analytics per episode or per month aren't that big, or at least not big enough to align with the opportu, the media opportunities that she's been taking. So I understand that, right? I don't take that personal and make that mean anything about me, and I still shoot my. Shooting my shot is what got me.

Gabby Bernstein on the podcast. It's what got me Lauren Bostick on the podcast. Sivan ala, like all these people that definitely had way larger exposure than I had. It's because I shot my shot, right? So shoot your shot anyway, because if you don't shoot your shot, you're gonna still be in the same place you are.

The best case scenario, they say yes, the worst case, they say no. And you're where you started anyway, right? It's already a no if you never. So tailoring pitches and understanding connections is something that I help not only one-on-one clients do, but what we're gonna talk about and amplify the Mastermind.

So if you're interested, be sure to check that out in the show notes because this is exactly what I help clients do. Pitching is probably one of my strongest skills because of that sales background that I told you about. I constantly, I would say 80% of my day was pitching, pitching brands, pitching ideas, pitching the concepts to get the, the campaigns off the ground.

So pitching and tailoring pitches is, is really again, how I've been able to see a lot of my success and it's what I'm here to help you do. Which leads me to number two. How does pitching yourself work? So let's say you're like, okay, totally got it. I understand how to get a guest on my show, but how do I pitch myself to be on other shows?

Here's a mistake a lot of people make. They start off by hyping themselves up and mentioning all their accolades, their income, their success numbers, their conversion rates, and it's really like a total pitch about their success. Now I think that's important to briefly mention, but what you need to flip around here is you need to personalize it to the host's audience.

Okay? So I'm gonna give you an example of how I would pitch myself for a large show that is way bigger than mine, has a way bigger following and has, again, like 20 times the media exposure that I have, knowing that numbers isn't what's going to land. This opportunity. I need to use more qualitative data, right?

I need to use more content ideas versus analytics. So an example, the Skinny confidential tsc, Lauren Bostick. Sure a lot of you listen to her. You probably love her. You probably love the podcast. I had her on my podcast on episode 14, which goes back to my point number one, shooting your shot. I didn't think she would say yes.

She said yes, and it was a great episode, so go check that out. She was one of the first like 20 people I ever interviewed. . So now if I'm thinking of me pitching myself on hers, obviously I'm gonna use that connection and say, Hey, remember we did this episode in 2018, link to the episode. I would love to now do a swap and catch up.

So now a swap means that she can come back on my podcast and I can go on hers. This is a really easy way to get yourself on other podcasts is doing swaps because you're exchanging a. . But going back to the analytics thing, I know if, if she's like, Hey, no problem, let me see your analytics. That's not the game I'm gonna win.

It's especially compared to her podcast, I think they have like 20 million downloads or something. Mine has like 130,000, obviously. Again, very, very different. Analytics that we're comparing here. So what I would do, instead of saying, Hey Lauren, um, I have X amount of downloads. Here's how many clients I've helped.

Here's my income, here's, here's how I operate, here's all my accolades and awards. That's not the move, because I think you can probably guess why. If you're an intuitive person, it just sounds like I'm trying to come on your podcast to sell myself and use your podcast as an ad spot. You need to instead find an angle of common.

This is where research and listening becomes very, very important to me. So for Lauren, I know that their podcast has massively contributed to their success. If you go look at her book, get The Fuck Out of the Sun, every single person in that book was someone that she had on that podcast, or she picked their brain from their interviews on the podcast.

Then she launched a product line because she made so many connections through her podcast, and the podcast reached so many people. She had more access to resources and knowledge to be able to launch that product. Then she's now created new opportunities for herself, new product lines. I think she's now working in an audio book for someone.

All this started because of the success of their podcast. So that's the common ground that I would find. Right. I just told you in point number one, I found a lot of my success in my business through my podcast. So what I would pitch is let's talk about podcasting and how it builds empire. Her husband also founded Deer Media with an influencer agency, which we'll talk about in a second.

But that's what I would talk about, right? Her husband was doing something very successful before that. He definitely did not need to completely risk his financials and, uh, reputation and career for starting an audio company and podcast network, but he did because he saw the power of it, right? That's an entrepreneur taking a big risk, and he saw that this risk will be worth the payoff, and clearly it was because that company is still running an extreme.

Valued and admired dear media. So that's the angle I would take is, Hey, let's do a podcast about podcasting. Let's talk about dear media. Let's talk about all the incredible opportunities that audio has brought you. Let's talk about all the people you've met from being able to interview them and launch your podcasts.

Let's talk about the resources you now have access to because of podcasting that is gonna resonate with them, right? Because they understand, they know. We get it. Like we get that audio is the biggest disruptor right now, which is why we created a freaking company around it, and why we have a podcast that runs weekly and pumps out episodes that's gonna catch their attention.

Me saying something like, oh, I make $8,000 a month and I do this, that, and the other thing.

Me leading with my accolades and being like, I used to work in influencer marketing and I was, um, you know, the manager of my company and I have a master's and I make all this money and I help this many clients. I can include bullets like that towards the end, but that's definitely not what is. That's not what's gonna catch their attention because it's not bringing value to their audience.

What's going to bring value to their audience and say, yes, this is worth an hour of our time, is explaining how powerful audio and podcasting is because we get it. We build your media. We have our podcast. We've seen the incredible opportunities. Yes, let's have a conversation about it that's worth our. So when you're pitching yourself again, the takeaway here is you need to find common ground and how you are gonna help your, their audience.

Not trying to hype yourself up to be an ad spot on their podcast. And again, the hard truth here, some people will say, no, it's okay. Take every no as a not yet, or that it just wasn't meant for you. This mindset shift has really, really helped me is like what's meant for me will not pass. Right. I was supposed to be on a really big podcast actually recently, and I had to fly out that day.

My plans changed, so we had to reschedule, and then when we rescheduled, I got tonsillitis.  and the number one thing the doctor said was like, stop talking and take it easy. And I was going to muscle past it. I was like, you know what, I'm gonna just do this podcast, but like, I couldn't even speak. And I'm like, no, I have to cancel.

And they were basically like, you know, these last minute cancellations are, are messing up our recording schedules, so we're, I don't think we're gonna be able to do this for a while. But I didn't take that as like, oh, should I fuck this up? Like, I will never be on that podcast again. They actually did say, let's just circle back in the new year.

So again, I'm not taking this. Wow, I just screwed up all these opportunities for myself. Can't believe it shouldn't have changed that one flight. Wish I didn't get sick. It's like, no, what's meant for me will not pass me. If this podcast and I are meant to connect, then we will connect and we will have an amazing conversation.

So try that mindset shift on and I think it will help you. The third demystification truth here is how the hell do podcasters make money? Honestly, this could be a whole series. Um, so I'll try to keep this as succinct. I have a hard time saying that word as I can, but let's just run through the options off the top.

Brand sponsors merchandise. Pay walled content. So like paying, having subscribers pay to exclusive pieces of content, selling your own offers. So using your podcast as an extension of your business, or if you get really big, getting some type of exclusive rights. Like Call Her Daddy was bought by Spotify, getting your podcast bought as a TV show.

Um, these things are really rare and we'll talk about in a second, but that is an option. And then doing live shows and selling tickets, those are probably the most common ways that podcasters make. So let's start with the first one, brand sponsors. This is when you are asking a brand to pay you to create a piece of content.

So remember, backtrack, maybe 10, 15 minutes ago when we talked about paid, earned and owned media. A brand sponsor paying you to create a piece of content clearly falls into paid bucket. So think of it this. Because a lot of people always ask me like, well, I have a small audience and you know, I kind of just want the product for free, and then I can create a whole free, uh, you know, episode about it and I'll take the product for free.

Let's use a yoga mat for example. I don't know why I need a yoga mat, so that's what we're gonna use. Let's say I was like, I really want this aloe yoga mat. But I have a small audience, so I'm not even sure how to attract them. Let me just ask them if I can get the mat for free and create a piece of content for them.

You could do that. And that's called an exchange. Um, I highly advise my clients, even with small audiences not to do that because that's brands taking advantage of your creative license and your creative input. And if you think about it, them paying you, let's say it's even a thousand. Is 20 times cheaper than them having to go hire a photographer, a videographer, a studio, props, models, stylists, makeup artists, right?

All these photo shoots cost a lot of money. I'm doing a photo shoot next week, and it's actually very cheap in South Africa, and I'm still spending a lot of money on it because of how much I want, how much creativity I wanna put into this, right? I wanna hire a stylist. I wanna get my makeup done, I want props there, so I'm gonna need to go buy the props.

I need a new wardrobe. All these things add up. So let's say a brand is gonna pay, I'm gonna shoot for the stars here, let's say.

So let's say a brand is going to spend, I don't know, $30,000 on a photo shoot. Well, imagine if they could spend $1,000 having you create an Instagram post or create an episode about them for their podcast that is clearly way more cost efficient, and now they don't have to spend all that time and energy and resources and putting together a photo.

So that's why influencer marketing got so big. People were like, wow, we can play all these content creators, get way more content out of it, get way more angles out of it. Get real consumers talking about our product and using, again, their, their experience to help us promote it, which is what a brand always wants.

And we don't have to spend a shit ton of money. On hiring 20 different people in an agency team to help us out. So that's why even if you have a small audience, I would still push to get paid because you're not getting paid for your analytics or your, your exposure. You're getting paid for your time. So as a podcaster, if, let's say I'm doing an ad for alo yoga, I have to not only look at their brand brief.

They have very clear guidelines. You probably can't say certain things. You need to put them in a certain light. They want to be, um, you know, perceived a certain way. I have to follow that. I have to script that out. I have to get it approved. I have to edit it, and I have to plug it into my podcast. And also, by the way, I can't include any competing brands.

So if I'm working with Alo Yoga, I cannot also have Lulu Lemon in the mix. And you know, Nike, these are all athletic brands. So because I'm turning down other opportunities, that's why you also need money in your pocket because you're saying you're limiting me from taking on opportunities with other brands.

So I need the money to make up. Okay, so I know this is like very in depth, but this again is what I help clients do and what we talk about in the six month of Amplify is how to understand how to get money in your pocket, even if you have a small audience. So that's how brand sponsors work. They pay you to create a piece of content, whether that's an Instagram post, a podcast episode, et cetera.

Merchandise is exactly what it sounds like. Hoodies, water bottles, stickers. Phone cases. A lot of people create merch and, and make money that way. As a podcaster, it's always really fun to have a tagline. Um, I actually remember call her daddy with Alex Cooper and Sophia Franklin. I remember they said at one point their merch was out selling their ad spots, which is crazy because I'm pretty sure they got paid probably thousands.

I would go ahead and venture to say they got paid. 20 to $50,000 for podcast ads. So the fact that their merchandise was outpacing those ads shows you that people really resonated with the merch. Because if you think about it, people wanted to show that they were aligned with the brand out in the world.

So when you create a hat or a hoodie or a water bottle, it's people getting to express that they're in your community, out in the physical world. So that's a way a lot of, of, a lot of.

So that's how a lot of podcasters make money is mer. Bonus content is a big one. So creating a paywall where people have to pay you to get access to a bonus episode or exclusive content is very popular. This, you'll see a lot on sites like Patreon Sub Stack. You could set it up within your own website.

Apple Subscriptions now has one as well. Spotify, although both are a little clunky and I've been trying to set it up. I'm actually asking someone help me cause I. I'm very tech savvy and I can't figure this out what the fuck's going on. I think Apple doesn't realize that they need a lot of help in that area, but Apple hit me up.

I can help you guys out. But bonus content again is people just loving your content so much. They want more and they're willing to pay. So an example on Patreon would be you could do. Coaching calls with people if they pay an extra, I don't know, $10 a month. You'll take questions from people and stitch together an episode, or you can say, um, I'm gonna have all my subscribers vote on a topic, and then I'm gonna record, and it's only gonna be for the subscribers.

So that's bonus exclusive content. It's content that the rest of your audience that is free is not paying for. And this is popular when a, you like creating a lot of content and you're like, okay, I'm creating a lot and I'm putting a lot of money and energy into this, but now I need to be rewarded for it and I wanna keep creating.

A lot of people will go the bonus content route. I think a lot of times too, bonus content works well when you feel like you wanna be a little more like behind the scenes and transparent, but you wanna know that the people listening really value it. So a lot of times people will do bonus content that is behind the scenes that they're like, I wouldn't share this with the public, or, you know, this is a little more vulnerable.

I'm gonna open up to you about my financials or my fertility journey, or how I actually built my business behind the scenes. That's kind of what bonus content can be sometimes is that really transparent, veiled content that you're lifting the veil with the pay. Another way podcasters make money, and this is usually how I like to teach my clients, is using it to sell your own offers.

So getting a little meta right now, I'm teaching you all about podcasting, right in this episode, and hopefully you'll understand.

And the goal is that you'll see my expertise in podcasting and go check out my website and figure out how I can support you, whether that's with a consult or a.

Enrolling and amplify or applying to work with me one on one, right? I'm giving you value here so that you understand my expertise and then you go invest in me at whatever level feels supportive for you. So if you think of any coach, a lot of them that have podcasts, That's what they're doing. They're using it as a marketing funnel.

They're showing you how they build their business, client success stories, giving you tips and tricks and hacks and information in the hopes that you'll see their credibility and expertise and then go invest in one of their programs. I think a really good example of this is Natalia Benson. She has astrology offers, she has business offers.

She has a whole plethora of ways that you can work with her, and if you go look at her episodes, they always tie into something that she teaches. So it's maybe like how to use your natal chart for prosperity. And then if you go to her website, she has all these pieces of content and all these ways to work with her to understand your na, your natal chart and prosperity or like the three pillars of building a foundational or a strong business.

And then if you look, she has like a business school. So those are things that. So that's an example of someone who uses their podcast to market their own offers. And from my understanding from me listening recently, she doesn't do ads. So that's an example of how she makes money, is she's putting a lot of time and effort into her podcast, right?

It takes money and time to produce a podcast, but she's making it back from the offers she's selling. I've heard a lot of people, especially coaches and service providers that have podcasts, say that it's their number one driver of revenue. Which is again, why I love teaching about this because I think it's an underrated strategy that can really, really five to 10 times increase your leads and sales.

And that's something that, again, I like to help teach. Now, we talked a little bit about making it big time, right? So an example of this would be call her daddy, you guys, if you followed that saga. What happened was, This is kind of like a, a story time. There were two hosts. The podcast was really raunchy, very sexual, very forward, very like, whoa, did they just say that?

So it got a lot, A lot of listeners, it blew up. It became one of the most popular podcasts in the United States, and definitely at one point the world. Then what happened is someone realized they were kind of being underpaid for how much? Viewership and how much listenership they had. So they're like, wait, you guys are only making a hundred thousand.

You could be making like a million. So they realized, wait, the value of this podcast is really high. Let's go negotiate with our network, which at that time was Baral Sports. The long and short of it is they, the co-host, did not agree on what the value was and how to move forward. And so one of the hosts, Sophia, Alex decided to stay.

She negotiated with Bar Stool the rights to the podcast, which is her ip, intellectual property, which is huge. If you don't own your ip, it's. It's like not owning your house, right? It's literally like renting out your, your apartment. Um, you can either rent out your creativity or you can own it. So she retained the rights to her intellectual property, stayed for a year with bar stool, and they said If you stay with us for a year, you'll get 100% control of your ip, and then you can do whatever you want.

So she stayed for a year because that's how valuable intellectual property is. She could have said, no, I'm gonna walk away, or I'm gonna argue for more money. And they would've said, that's fine, but we're gonna then, you know, own your intellectual property. She saw the value of intellectual property and said, I'll stay with you for a year.

But I'm gonna take my 100% rights of my content. That now means she can do whatever she wants with her podcast. She could create merch, she could create a Netflix show. She can literally do whatever the fuck she wants. And as we saw, if you followed this whole story, she ended up getting acquired by Spotify for 60 million for a three year.

Well, that's not Trump change, right? . So that shows you the value of owning your intellectual property and what can happen with exclusive rights. Now if you're like, why the hell. Did they pay her $60 million? Remember how in point number three I was talking about brand sponsors? And if how you're gonna work with Allo Yoga, you have to turn down like Lululemon.

Well, Alex, going completely exclusive with Spotify means she cannot be on Apple Podcasts. That's why if you go to Apple Podcasts, she's not. So that's limiting her opportunities, right? That's limiting the potential that she has to create new listeners on Apple Podcasts or any other platform that also limits her brand sponsorships if they're not finding her on Apple Podcasts.

So she's basically saying, because you've limited my opportunities and you've made me exclusive, you need to give me more money to make up for all those missed opportunities. They obviously saw the value in her listenership and the type of engagement she had and her, um, her analytics in general, and that's where that money came from.

So exclusive rights, if you're just a beginning podcaster, this probably would not apply to you again. This, this whole deal happened because of how large this podcast was. If you're someone listening that. Hundreds of thousands to millions of listeners, then this is something you could actually think about is how do I get exclusive rights of the network to pay me that amount of money?

TV programs, movies, et cetera, that can also come out of podcasts. If you guys listen to Wonder Podcasts, like The Shrink Next Door, dirty John, Dr. Death, a lot of them turned into TV programs and movies, and there's actually an amazing podcast right now called Shameless Acquisition Target that talks about this.

These deals are rare. They're lengthy. They're gruesome. There's a lot of arguing about your intellectual property, right? Your creative license. So they might say, Hey, I know you told this story, but like, we're gonna change the character because we didn't. We didn't like that. Or like, we're gonna cut out that scene.

And you as the producer of that podcast might be like, No, that scene was integral to the story. And if you're going back and forth with people that are trying to turn this into a TV program, they're like, no, we don't think that. And that's why a lot of people have trouble getting TV deals or movies because again, it's such a gruesome process and you can lose creative control unless you have a really good lawyer and you have the tenacity to be like, no, I'm owning 100% of the creative rights here.

That is a way to get paid though. And then last but not least, live shows and.

So what you could do here is rent out a local venue, like a local comedy store, a local bar, even a ballroom at a hotel, and sell tickets. Now, I will say, you have to think here with a business mindset, renting a space costs money. Getting chairs in there costs money. Are you gonna have an open bar? Are there gonna be refreshments, snacks, anything like that cost money.

So you need to think about how to price tickets and even like sell merch at the event to make any type of money. From what I know, and this is my limited experience of, I've never done a live show by the way. Um, that's because I'm a digital nomad and I bop around so much. I truly like don't have the capacity to run a live show, but from what I know, these live shows usually just break even and it's more about community building and getting to meet people in person.

They're not massive money makers because of the overhead that goes into it. But it is a way, again, to connect with listeners. I've been live shows and I. Die hard fans of the podcasters now because it's just so fun to see them in person. It shows their personality even more. And you really feel that sense of community when you see someone live.

So if you have a really engaged audience and you are grounded in a place, right? You're not like me bopping all over the world and you're like, yeah, I live in a city and I feel like if I really started to promote this and put some effort behind this, I could sell tickets to, you know, my local bar and, and do a live record.

That works. Some people do live recordings too when they go to like panels or festivals. If you listen to the show, scam Influencers, I love it. They did a live taping at a festival, so then they just used that taping as one of their episodes. And again, people were already paying for tickets to go to that whole festival.

And then again, they just used the content from there for the. So this is a route to take. It's something that I am not, again, super well versed in, just because I don't have the bandwidth or capacity to, but I have seen live shows. I've gone to live shows, I have heard from people that have done live shows.

It's a way to build community, but I, it's not like a cash cow. Okay. Number four, what the fuck do podcast networks do? I actually want to really take some time and talk about this point because I think there is a, um, very big misconception about what podcast networks are, and there's a lot of desire to be on a podcast network, and I don't think people actually know how they.

So let's break it down. A podcast network helps with exposure and acquiring brand deal. And usually develops a pool of talent with large followings and engaged communities to bring in large brand sponsors and use the talent's likeness to create things like merchandise, product lines, activations, experiences, et cetera.

So let's use Deer media as an example cuz I know a lot of people listening to this podcast have you either heard of Deer Media, they wanna be on deer media. They like the, the talent that's on deer media. So I'm gonna explain how that even came to. Dear Media is founded by Michael Bostick and a co-founder re.

Rena owned dba, which is Digital Brand Architects, which was an influencer talent agency. So what she did was manage influencers that were almost like celebrities. So like the Lauren Bostik, the Sivan, alas, et cetera, that had these massive followings that were getting paid big money for Instagram deals or YouTube deals or blog deals.

She managed them as if they were celebrity talent because they kind of. Influencers have their heyday now where they are treated like celebrity talent. So that's what DBA was, was we're gonna handle the contracts, we're gonna do the negotiations, we're gonna pitch you, we're gonna make sure that the brands are aligned for your content.

By the way, I know this because my old company used to work with dba. There were some brands that would be like, Hey, we wanna work with this big influencer. They would be represented by dba, and we would have to go into negotiations and contracts with d. Then Michael Bostick and Lauren Bostick started their podcast, the Skinny Confidential, him and her, and remember, they were represented by dba.

They saw a lot of success. They actually joined a different studio, I think it was Podcast one, and they realized that the way that company did things was very old school and they were much very in the influencer space of like social media, blogging, videography, where the podcast one space was acting almost like old radio.

So that's when Michael had the idea like, we could build our own thing and, and do it the way we. So he partnered with the DBA founder, Rena, and they created Dear Media. By the way, this is all like public knowledge. If you go to the About page on Dear Media, you can read about this, and I've literally listened to so many episodes of The Skinny Confidential that I've heard him talk and interview the co-founder as well.

Now, here's what they did. They funneled all that talent, all those big influencers into dba. That's why you see a lot of the people that start podcasts on media, they're already big influencers because they have the large followings and big exposure to bring in big brand deals. Remember, they're like celebrities.

So when a brand sees, you know, Lauren Bostick with 1 million followers, and they're like, wow, she has a really engaged audience. Yeah, we're gonna put $50,000 behind an ad because we can see us making five times that back. So let's put our money towards that. So what Deer Media did was take a lot of their influencer talent and have them start podcast.

If you look at the lineup of, of who is on deer media, a lot of those people were represented by DBA before Deer Media was even a thing. So again, they recognize these people have large followings, people like them already, they like their Instagram. Why not create a podcast and open up the monetization opportunities to bring in brand sponsors?

That's why, and I wanna make this really clear, this is kind of a hard truth if you're a coach or a service provider or someone who has. I don't know, 3000 followers like me, or 10,000 followers, or even a thousand downloads for episode. It is gonna be really, really, really hard to get on a podcast network like Deer Media because they care about numbers, because that's how they make money.

Their revenue comes from the ad deals, they negotiate, okay, you get a part of the ad deal and then we get a part of the ad deal for bringing you the ad deal, right? So I'm gonna try to like break this up an example. The Blonde Files is an example of someone who's on Dear Media. She's also an influencer, let's say a wellness brand, like, I don't know, I used Alo Yoga already.

Let's say Alo Yoga was like, we wanna partner with blonde files. We want her to do four ads for our podcast, or excuse me, on her podcast for our new yoga mat coming. The podcast Network, dear Media will negotiate that and say, okay, I'm making up numbers here. Okay. I actually don't know what their numbers are, but I'm using what I know from influencer marketing.

Let's say they're like, okay, we're gonna pay her $20,000 to do four ads over the month of December. So dear Media will take a cut of that, and then the blonde files, Ariel will take a cut. That's how, that's why people like to be on networks because they will make the money off the brand deal. And that's how a network like that can keep running because they take a cut of that.

Now, podcast networks also vary in the type of support they have. Deer Media actually built an office where they have. In person studios, right? They have, um, producers on site. They have social media teams. So a point of a podcast network too is to really support you so that you can show up and be the talent and then have people help you.

But I've heard from people on networks, this is not just your media. This is like bet's media, iHeartRadio. Sirius xm, all of these are like networks. A lot of people still have to do a lot of the backend work. They still have to send time stamps to the editors. They still have to script out the intro and outro.

They still have to write up the brand, copy themselves for the ad. So the really, again, the point of a podcast network is to bring you the cash, but you're the talent and you need to be creating the content like you're the content creator. So another reason that you would wanna be on a podcast network is all the talent within the network starts doing podcast swaps, which again, remember I talked about that in one of the points.

It really helps cross pollinate your audiences. That's why sometimes you're listening to podcasts and you're like, why is this one guest. Been on all these podcasts, like she's kind of blown up. I've seen her on all these podcasts. Usually it she either got into a network and is now bopping around all the podcasts on that network or the podcast saw value in her being on their episodes and they're like, Hey, we just want you to go on all the episode, excuse me, all the podcasts that are in our network.

That's also why you see a lot of dear media people doing podcast swabs. If you go to any of those shows, And you look at their episodes, like all of them have been on all of each other's shows to, again, to cross pollinate and get more exposure. Because if you think about it, if you're widening the net of reach and bringing in more exposure, that's more money, that's more analytics, more brand deals, more money that goes to the influencer, the podcast to, and the, which by the way is the same person and the network.

Okay? So that's how most networks work. They're also in charge of, um,

Now.

Now again, podcast networks work differently. I'm actually in a podcast network and it's smaller, and I would say it's not the level of support that I thought I would be getting. There's actually no support. Again, the value is more of. Connecting with the community. So like more opportunities for me to be a guest on other people's podcasts, more opportunities for me to be spotlighted in their newsletters.

It's more of like media exposure than it is backend tech support. So that's something to think about is if you wanna join a podcast network because you're like, I just wanna show up and record and not do anything. That's actually not really what a podcast Network does. You're still gonna have to do a lot of work.

The podcast network is there to bring you deals and media exposure. Again, I'm not speaking for every single podcast network, but most of them work like this. There are smaller podcast networks that maybe you haven't even heard of that probably do support you where you do just show up and record and they take care of everything else.

They take care of the odd spots, they take care of editing, they take care of sound quality. Um, a lot of people, a lot of smaller entrepreneurs have built those things. I recently heard of one called Pod Glomerate. I haven't completely looked into it, but it sounded like that's what they realized was like we're trying to help smaller creators get more opportu.

So, again, a hard truth here is if you're trying to be on Dear Media or Bet's Media or iHeartRadio, or any of these massive media networks, you really do need a massive following or massive analytics or a very, very strong case and argument of how you're gonna bring those analytics in, because they need to know that they are going to make money off of your podcast, right?

They're not in the business of. I don't know, just having you be on their platform just for exposure, like they have a business they need to run, and the way they run is usually brand deals and partnerships. So again, that's just a hard truth that we all have to face is some things do come down to money and some things do come down to analytics.

And when your business model is based on high numbers, Again, you need to think of, does your podcast have high numbers or your Instagram have high numbers to be able to get you on a network like Dear Media or again, BE'S Media or iHeart Radio, or any of that. Now, this is not to say it's impossible, right?

Like I said in, in, um, point number two about pitching yourself, you can always find a common ground and common angle and create almost like what you would create to pitch to an investor of like, Hey, I know I'm not there yet, but here's the trajectory. Here are my plans. Here's what you don't have, right?

Here's the gap that's missing. I see you have a lot of content about this, but you don't have any content about this. That's where I can come in and fill that. So it's not impossible. There are always ways to fill in the gaps. It's just a more uphill battle because again, numbers matter in business, especially in podcasting networks.

And so we just need to keep that at the forefront of our reality

Now.

One thing that's really interesting too, that I saw in the news in the last six months is some people will now pay to be on podcasts like the Skinny Confidential, which is a new thing. I remember three years ago being like, I wonder if that will ever happen because the same way some brands and people pay to be in Forbes, if you think about it, these podcasts in their own right are media entities, so people are paying for exposure.

Shervin from SymbioticA. I think there was an article that came out that he paid to be on that podcast. Some people might be like, oh my God, I can't believe he would pay. Like that's embarrassing, or why would he pay? It's because he was thinking from an entrepreneurial mindset of me being on this podcast with millions of downloads, he's probably gonna turn into millions of sales.

So paying like $20,000 to be on the podcast netting to $1 million in sales is a, a pretty good investment. Obviously, I don't know how much he made on that return, but I'm assuming he made a lot because he went back on the podcast and I remember a lot of people started talking about symbiota after. So that's something to think about too, is if you build your podcast to a place where it's a media entity and you know that every time someone comes on it, they are now going to make money off of it, you can start charging for guest spots.

I would say we're at a place now where that is not normal. That's kind of the exception. And again, I think Skinny Confidential has an edge here because of their audience size. Because her husband founded Deer Media and because they really are disruptors in this space, I think they have the capabilities to do that.

And again, people see, wow, when I go on that podcast, my business will blow up. I'm willing to pay $20,000. I think that was the price that I saw. Um, that's not normal for everybody, but it could work for you, right? You could think about this on a smaller scale. You could. You know, my podcast has 10,000 downloads an episode, so I'm actually gonna charge like $500 because I think you coming on my podcast will net into you getting a high ticket client.

So if you have data like that, if people are telling you, oh my God, I went on your podcast and I signed like three new clients, that is something to consider that you can make money off is charging for guest spots. You just have to s.

So I actually have so many more points, but we're already almost an hour into this, so I'm gonna do a part two. I think this is a perfect place to wrap up. And just so you know, I love talking about this stuff, so if you wanna leave a voice note and ask more questions or even send me a dm, I will answer it in the next one, the part two of this episode, and really start demystifying more of the podcast.

So I'll leave a link to the voice message in my show notes. And by the way, this stuff is exactly what I teach inside my private club.

Inside my private coaching as well as amplify the Mastermind. So if you wanna work privately together, get into your analytics, see how we can bring you brand sponsors or monetize your business, that is my specialty. We can also work on pitching guests, pitching yourself, pitching brands. Again, that's like one of my strongest suits and that is what I love to help people do is land opportunities that they didn't think that were possible just because of story.

There is always a way to fill a gap, and I'm here to help you do that. So check out one-on-one coaching. I have three spots open in mid-January to start. I'm collecting deposits this month. We'll start mid-January when I'm back from the break, and then amplify as a six month mastermind for the 2.0 level of podcasting.

So think of Amplify more as a classroom structure where we're all following the same syllabus and we're all in the same content, and each month is broken out by one training and one implementation session, as well as the support between calls on. So again, there's also a hybrid one-on-one element where you'll have an audit call as well as an offboarding call so that you feel like the program is tailored to your podcast needs and goals.

So again, check both those offers out. If you have any questions, I'm an open book. Hit me up at Chelsea Reif on Instagram. Check on my website, chelsea rife.com. Slide into my dms. I love chatting with you guys. I love hearing from you in the voice notes. I had someone submit a voice note and I like nearly fell outta my chair.

Cause I was like, ah, I get to talk to people. So send the voice notes in. I'll leave that link in and get ready for part two next week. Thank you so much for listening and I hope this was helpful.

Now if you found this valuable, please go leave a review on Apple Podcast and Spotify. A written review on Apple Podcast means the world. It's truly like a testimonial, and it will help this podcast reach more people and literally,

and get in front of the people that it's meant to get in front of. If you do leave a review, take a screenshot and send it to info chelsea rife.com or dme, Chelsea Rife, and you'll be entered into a. You'll be entered to win a giveaway that is a 20 minute laser coaching session. So we'll pick one topic to focus on when it comes to podcasting and we'll get right into it.

So again, all you gotta do is go to Apple Podcast, leave your written review, take a screenshot, send it to info@chelsearife.com or Chelsea rife, and then you'll be entered into that giveaway. All right, thank you so much for listening. I hope this was helpful. Get ready for part two next week.