News
 

Area15 has canceled its plans to come to Orlando. Recall they had paid around $24MM in 2022 for 16 ½ acres just off I-4, halfway between Disney Springs and SeaWorld. No development of any kind had been done to the land in the last 2 years. With Epic Universe opening up next year, and Disney World expanding over the next 5 years, it could be that they just want to sell the land and take the money and run.

Pecos Bill’s has a new menu

• Two cheeseburger options have been replaced with one: The Double Chili con Queso burger, which is two hamburgers smothered in chili con carne and chipotle queso and corn chips, because we’re not allowed to say Fritos.
  
• The fajitas have been replaced with bowls - think Pecos Bill’s of Satu’li here:

• Steamed tamale
• Nacho bowl
• Southwest Caesar salad
• Rice bowl

• Choice of proteins:

• Green chile pork
• Cherry Coke-braised beef
• Citrus-chipotle chicken

• Vegan option: Grilled Masa Flatbread with sweet potatoes, pinto beans, pico, lettuce, and plant-based pepper-jack cheese.

Disney Cruise Line -

DCL recently previewed some food and merch  options for the upcoming Disney Treasure this week, as well as costuming for the crew and DCL CMs

• Some of the food served was from the Coco-themed main dining room, “Plaza de Coco”.

• The tamales and tres leches were good. Allegedly.
• A tequila flight will be available for dinner. The serving glasses are very festive and Jim, that’s the reason why I’m going to order the tequila flight. THAT’S THE REASON, JIM.
  

• The Haunted Mansion bar stuff looks AMAZING and I can imagine the Treasure is going to be packed to the brim with that stuff.

• We already knew there’d be a souvenir mug for The Mariner and The Bride. There’s a two-glass, huge holder that’s Bat-themed and looks like a candelabra and Jim, I think we need to do a public safety message here and say you don’t have to buy all the drinks on the same night of your cruise. Pace yourselves.
  

• CM costumes look very, very themed. Like Disney’s taken it up a notch there.

Speaking of DCL, our friend and mindreader who can’t read minds, Chris Cox, will be on the Disney Dream in 2025:

• (27 Jan) 5-Night Bahamas from FLL with a Marvel Day at Sea with both Castaway Cay AND Lighthouse Point
• (1 Feb) 5-Night Western Caribbean from FLL with a Marvel Day at Sea and Castaway

• (24 Feb) 5-Night Bahamas from FLL with a Marvel Day at Sea with both Castaway Cay AND Lighthouse Point
• (1 Mar) 5-Night Western Caribbean from FLL with a Marvel Day at Sea and Castaway

Chris is also out on tour across the United States this fall, as part of The Illusionists: Magic of the Holidays tour. I’ve seen this show, and Chris is amazing. Like, I know Chris and still have no idea how he does the tricks.

Visit MagicCox.com for show and ticket information.

INTERVIEW

Introduction: Our special guest today is Ricky Debler, Jr., Vice President of Business Development for Palmas Restaurant Group.

Palmas Restaurant Group operates more than a dozen dining locations in Walt Disney World, including the Mexico Pavilion in EPCOT, Maya Grill at Coronado Springs, and Frontiera Cocina at Disney Springs, with Rick Bayless.

Welcome to the show, Ricky.

• On a day-to-day basis, what kind of things does a “VP of Business Development” do? (Or, if you want to answer it this way: What does a typical day look like for you?)

• What sort of long-term strategy work does your job involve?

• In 1982, Disney and Palmas came together to launch the San Angel Inn in the Mexico pavilion. What’s the story of how that happened? Who approached who? What was the original idea?
  
• La Cava opened in 2009 and just celebrated its quinceañera. My guess is that Palmas probably started planning for La Cava several years before 2009. But back then, tequila wasn’t all that popular in the United States - it sold less than vodka and less than cognac:
  
  

These days, tequila outsells vodka and cognac combined. And La Cava became the model for themed bars all around Walt Disney World, from the Tutto Gusto wine cellar at Italy, to Abracadabar at the Boardwalk.

What did Palmas see in tequila back in the early 2000s that made it think a dedicated tequila bar would work in EPCOT?

• How would you describe the difference between the two sit-down restaurants, San Angel and La Hacienda, that Palmas runs at EPCOT’s Mexico pavilion?

• Palmas also runs Frontiera Cocina at Disney Springs with Chef Rick Bayless.
  

• How did that partnership come together?
• When Rick proposes something like his Oaxacan menu, which included dried crickets, what’s the process by which the team decides, yeah, Orlando tourists are ready for this?

• Jim and I have always said that the thing that makes La Cava great is its people. Anyone can pour drinks, but La Cava has people like Hilda, Javier, Humberto, Cristina - even Pepe behind the bar. These are people for whom this is more than a job, right? How do you go about finding people like these and convince them to come to Florida? What do you look for in an interview?
  
• Last question: You recently launched the Dos Hombres micheladas at La Cava, using the Dos Hombres mezcal made by actors Brian Cranston and Aaron Paul. (And it might be my favorite mezcal. Very balanced.) And Brian and Aaron have visited La Cava and been big proponents of the bar. How do you approach those folks about working together? You don’t just pick up the phone and say “Get me Brian Cranston”, right?
  

[If you want to promote the special event on the 29th, which I know is sold out, or tell people to look out for other special events, here’s where you can do it.]

• Where can people find you on social media?

Surveys

Our friend Jeff Clune got this question in an EPCOT survey last week:

Jim, what’s the reason for asking this specific question?

Makenzie Negri and others sent in a new Disney survey that asks why you chose to visit when you did, and why you didn’t visit during other times of the year.

Jim, if you categorize these answers, you get:

• Weather (3 choices)
• Special events (3)
• Best time for everyone involved (2)
• Prices (1)
• Crowds (1)

Then a series of questions that include one- or two-month ranges, asking if you’d be willing to visit during this time.

And if you say that’s an ideal time to visit, you get asked why:

Jim, I just want to know some basic demographic information about the people who say they want to visit Central Florida in July to escape the hot weather where they live. Like, are you actively on fire at home?

And then a series of questions about where you’d *like* to go during different times of the year instead of Walt Disney World::

Jim, I note:

• There’s a Disney resort in Hawaii
• Disney operates a cruise line
• Disney operates Adventures by Disney, which visits countries outside the US without a cruise
• ABD also visits national parks like Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Arches, and Denali
• ABD visits major Southern US cities like Los Angeles

Also, I got a Magic Kingdom survey that was notable because in the section asking about technology and apps, it did NOT use the Genie name:

Listener Questions

From Sven Popelier:

We’re traveling to the Disneyland Resort next year in February. We were wondering when the 70th celebration will start. I presume it will be too early but maybe some merchandise will be available already?

Len says: I think the official kick-off is in May, 2025, but there’s a chance some 70th merch will be available in February.

From Tom Biglin,

On a dish episode, can you go over best way to use a custom touring plan with a very dynamic landscape caused by ever changing lightning lanes?

From Aaron Carlson:

With the new Universal kids theme park on the way is it possible Disney could watch how that goes and make a kids theme park on Disney World property?

Len: That would be a huge capital investment, and require ongoing maintenance. You have a couple of other obstacles:

• What franchises would you put in this kids park that you wouldn’t put in, say, Hollywood Studios?
• How do you ensure it doesn’t cannibalize ticket sales at the four other parks?

Research/Patents (use query "disney enterprises".as AND "theme park".ab at URL https://ppubs.uspto.gov/pubwebapp/)

How Disneyland’s Mine Trains thru Nature’s Wonderland
ride became Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
Part Four of Four (for now)

Because we wanted to give Ricky as much time as possible to talk today, this week’s feature is going to be a bit shorter than usual.

Plus I’ve decided to put this series on the transformation of Disneyland’s “Mine Trains Thru Nature’s Wonderland” into “Big Thunder Mountain Railroad” on pause after today because – to be blunt – I think that, next year, when work has begun in earnest on turning Tom Sawyer Island at WDW’s Magic Kingdom into that theme park’s new “Cars Road Rally” attraction … Well, I think it will then be easier for people to see the parallels between these two projects.

Because building a giant attraction like this (especially one that you’re planning on building right on top of a pre-existing ride that’s right in the middle of your theme park) honestly isn’t easy.

“Wait,” I hear you say. “Weren’t the Imagineers looking to do with the mid-to-late 1970s? And wasn’t that when Disneyland Park out in Anaheim was still closed on Mondays & Tuesdays in the off-season? I bet that made tearing down ‘Mine Trains thru Nature’s Wonderland’ easier.”

Yeah. About that … I’m sure that the folks down at 1401 Flower Street were counting on that when they laid out their original plans for transforming Anaheim’s Frontierland. But then Disneyland managers threw a monkey wrench into that plan when they announced – on February 3, 1977 – that Disneyland would be switching to an open-7-days-a-week schedule starting on March 21st.

Mind you, this was the first time in nearly 20 years that Disneyland had done this. The last time that Walt’s family fun park had been open seven days a week in the pre-Summer season had been back in the Winter of 1958. This was an experiment on the Company’s part which was eventually deemed a failure. Which is why – in 1958 – Disneyland then began following its open 5 days a week / Wednesday thru Sunday schedule during the off-season.

So why this change now (And – by now – I mean the Late Winter / Early Spring of 1977) ?

As Bill Long, the then-director of Marketing at the Park, explained in an article that was published in the “Disneyland Line”

… this change in Disneyland’s operating schedule is due to increased vacation tourism from Western Canada, Portland, Seattle and Phoenix during the post-Easter season. To build on this trend, we are planning a strong promotional effort that is aimed specifically at those markets. Not to mention staging more short term events at the Park to help bring in the locals.

With that goal in mind, Disneyland – in the Late Winter / Early Spring of 1977 – staged the Park’s first ever “Mardi Gras Weekend” February 19 – 21st. Not to mention presenting a far-more-elaborate-than-usual Easter Celebration that same year (1977).

It would be nice to report that this experiment was a success. But – just like what happened back in 1957 – Disneyland managers didn’t get the attendance boost / revenue increase that they had been hoping for with the Park going to an open-seven-days-a-week schedule.

So – in September of 1977 – Disneyland shifted back to its old only-open-five-days-a-week schedule during the off-season. And it wouldn’t be ‘til February of 1985 (nearly 8 years later) that the park finally, officially & permanently moved over to the schedule that it now follows today. Open seven days a week. And that was done at the expressed order of then-Disney CEO Michael Eisner.

So okay. The fact that Disneyland was now NOT going to be closed on Mondays & Tuesday in the Winter & Spring of 1977 did complicate the Imagineers’ original plans for the removal of “Mine Trains thru Nature’s Wonderland.” But they still pressed on with the project.

Major demolition was set to begin in May of that year (1977). Dave Melanson – WED’s project manager for the “Mine Train thru Nature’s Wonderland / Big Thunder Mountain Railroad” – said that, after the Imagineers had finished their Maintenance & Salvage survey on this side of Frontierland – it had been determined that Cascade Peak …

Cascade Peak – for those who don’t remember this mountain at Disneyland – was that 75-foot-tall mountain that Walt had built right at the edge of the Rivers of America back in 1960 as the Park’s “Rainbow Caverns Mine Train” was expanded into “Mine Trains thru Nature’s Wonderland.”

As the mine train rolled past the base of that mountain, Guests got a killer view of Cascade Peak’s three waterfalls: Big Thunder (Yes, that’s where Tony Baxter got the name for Disneyland’s next big thrill ride) and the twin sisters.

By the way, it was pretty obvious back then to see that Disneyland’s spiels were written by men. Take – for example – this explanation that Guests were given as to why Cascade Peak’s two smaller waterfalls were called the twin sisters:

“Them other two falls, they call the Twin Sisters – I reckon that’s ’cause they’re always babblin’!”

Interesting side note: While “Mine Train thru Nature’s Wonderland” shuttered back in January of 1977, Cascade Peak – with its three waterfalls – would remain in place for another 21 years. It wasn’t until the Fall of 1998 that a maintenance worker wandered inside and then realized that the combination of Cascade Peak’s mostly-made-out-of-plywood construction and then nearly 40 years of constant exposure to running water had turned this Disneyland mountain into an accident waiting to happen.

Based on what I’ve been told, the inner supports for Cascade Peak were so rotten at that point that there was a genuine fear that – once the Santa Anas started up (Those are Southern California’s seasonal winds that typically blow from October thru December) – this faux mountain would just fall over into the Rivers of America. And if this were to happen when the Mark Twain or the Columbia or the Davy Crocket Explorer Canoes were sailing by, that could be disastrous.

Side note: Yes, I know. I didn’t mention the Mike Fink Keelboats, that other boat-based experience that Disneyland visitors used to enjoy. I didn’t bring the keelboats up because today’s story – the removal of Cascade Peak – is set in the Fall of 1998. And Disneyland’s version of the Mike Fink Keelboats stopped operating back in May of the previous year (1997).

Anyway, the demo team at Disneyland showed up one night in the Fall of 1998. And by making use of a bulldozer & a backhoe, Cascade Peak was persuaded to fall back into Frontierland (rather than fall out into the Rivers of America). It took the better part of a week to clear away all the debris. And then Disneyland’s horticultural department had to move in & then plant all sorts of trees & shrubs along the shoreline. Which eventually made it look as though Cascade Peak had never existed.

Side note: If you’re ever walking along Big Thunder Trail heading towards Disneyland’s middle entrance to “Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge” (This is coming from the Frontierland side) and you then notice – to your left … Well, a pond and the remains of what looks like a train trestle & a bit of rock work …

That’s where the “Mine Train thru Nature’s Wonderland” – after rolling between Cascade Peak and the edge of the Rivers of America – briefly entered a cave and then entered Bear Country. In fact, the jumping fish effect that you can sometimes spy in operation in this pond along Big Thunder Trail (when it’s working, mind you) is something of an Easter Egg. A reminder – to theme park history buffs who know what they’re actually looking at – of what used to be this part of Frontierland 47 years ago.

Back to Mr. Melanson now (He was the project manager for Big Thunder): Dave went on to say that a construction fence would go up around Disneyland’s old “Mine Train thru Nature’s Wonderland” ride sometime in April of 1977. But he then went on to assure Cast Members that Casa De Fritos – the Park’s Mexican restaurant – would remain in operation for the entire time the West Coast version of Big Thunder Mountain Railroad was under construction.

Which – given that we spent so much time on today’s show talking about how the Mexican-themed restaurants & bars at Walt Disney World operated – seems as good a place as any to bring today’s feature to a close.

Come back next Spring, folks. After that construction fence has gone up around the Rivers of America at WDW’s Magic Kingdom and those demolition teams are flattening Tom Sawyer Island. And we’ll then pick up the story of the construction of “Big Thunder Mountain Railroad” on both the East Coast & the West Coast.

Trust me, folks. You’re going to see a lot of parallels between what’s going to happen in Florida’s Magic Kingdom in the Spring of 2025 and what went on inside of Disneyland back in the Late Spring / Early Summer of 1977.