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Liberty Square Riverboat and Tom Sawyer Island Closing to make Rivers of America into Cars Land

• On our D23 wrap-up show last week we said that of the two options Disney had, this one made the most sense.
• We also said this means the end of Liberty Square, since Haunted Mansion will likely be the gateway to the new Villains Land.

• And that means Hall of Presidents’ days are numbered.
• If I had to bet on whether Hall of Presidents exists in 2030, I’d take the under.
  

• A lot of folks are understandably upset with this decision. Our friend Matt Fraser wrote in with his family’s perspective::
  

1) There is an inherent design language with the current Liberty Square through Frontierland (sans TBA)

2) The Haunted Mansion isn’t an entry to a Villainsland, there are no villains in HM.

3) I think (respectfully) that when you are fortunate enough to live near wdw, it takes on a “let’s do this experience and then go home.”  When you save for over a year for a week’s get away, the things you do with your family create special event, deep emotional  memories due to the special nature of an intense week long experience.

In short Disney is bulldozing the place I’ve played in as a child, as an adult, with my parents, with my child, because they can’t figure out a story to tell that treats native Americans with respect and doesn’t involve guns.

Tons of other listeners, including Chris Smith, made similar points. And they’re all valid.

I think, Jim, that you and I have looked at how Disney works on the inside for so long that we tend to think first along the lines of “Knowing what we know about how Disney makes decisions, then among the options that they would actually consider as best for shareholders, what’s the one that’s best supported by the financials?” And that’s different than, to Matt’s point, a question that starts with “What can we build that remains true to the original vision of Frontierland?”

So, Jim, the way I like to say it is this: With any Disney theme park decision, you and I probably start at Acceptance, which is Step 10 of the 12 Stages of Grief. Then we move on to Hope and Renewal. And not for nothing, that does have its advantages.

A number of folks wrote in to ask what ‘Cars’ has to do with ‘Frontierland’. So I thought I’d do some research on this. A couple of things:

• At D23 Josh D’Amaro redefined Frontierland as this: “Keeping your eyes on the horizon, believing in yourself, carving your own path, and striving towards success.” (You might ask yourself if there’s any Magic Kingdom land for which Disney wouldn’t use this exact same text, like Tomorrowland or Adventureland, or Galaxy’s Edge, or World Discovery, or California.)
• We know that Disney has to include IP with all new rides. So a good question is this: “For all the movie and TV franchises Disney owns, which one is the most successful that doesn’t already have a ride in Walt Disney World but could?”
• So, for example, Star Wars is successful, but there’s an entire land at Hollywood Studios already.
• And the Marvel Cinematic Universe is very popular, but Universal owns those rights.
• Here’s the Top 20 list:
  

We might hear this week about where Monstropolis is going in Hollywood Studios

• As we said on the wrap-up show, the two most logical places for this are the Star Wars Launch Bay in Animation Courtyard and the area north of that; and Muppets Courtyard.

• Both could work.

• Neither Muppets nor Star Wars Launch Bay earn Lightning Lane revenue (nobody’s buying G+ for them)
• They’re large areas that are under-utilized.
• The concept art that was released at D23 certainly looks more like Muppets Courtyard than SWLB
• Our friend Drew Taylor at The Wrap wrote an article implying that Disney changed the Monstropolis concept art at the last minute, from one that explicitly showed Muppets being replaced, because they weren't sure what the audience reaction might be.

• Muppets Courtyard has these advantages:

• Already existing bathrooms and restaurants
• Already existing city facades
• Don’t have to take the extra step of moving employee parking and offices, which adds time to the project timeline and cuts into revenue
• Still have Star Wars Launch Bay for a Phase 2 expansion

• Star Wars Launch Bay advantages:

• You don’t make fans of The Muppets mad. For now.
• And I say “for now” because let’s be honest and ask ourselves this question: Suppose Muppets is spared this week. What’s the future of this attraction?

• I say this as someone who loves the Muppets. I sleep in a Muppets t-shirt from time to time.
• The Muppets haven’t been widely popular in 40 years. The TV shows haven’t worked. And as our friend Mike Carlson from Podcast: The Ride says, all 10 Muppet Movies ever made have earned less money than the 5 Alvin and the Chipmunks movies.

• So you have to ask - even if it stays, what does MuppetVision 3D look like in 10 or 20 years?

• There’s no movie or TV show in development to refresh it.
• It’ll never generate Lightning Lane revenue
• It’s never going to sell a ton of merchandise
• Is it really an attraction of theme park cultural significance, like Pirates or Haunted Mansion?
• I mean, if Disney put some effort into moving the entire thing to D+, wouldn’t that be like 90% of the theater experience?
• In the current environment, you could build another Muppets attraction in any of the 4 parks.

Canada Permit

Jim, our friends over at WDWMagic noted a surprise construction permit filing for the Hotel du Canada in EPCOT’s Canada pavilion:

The construction permit carries the usual vague description of "Install Set Elements" and is assigned to Icarus Exhibits. The long-time Disney vendor specializes in custom theming for immersive environments and has recently worked on TRON Lightcycle Run, Star Wars Galaxy's Edge, and Toy Story Land.

As we were getting ready to record, Universal Orlando announced a free dining promotion that starts November 7 and ends April 25, 2025.

Jim, I think this is confirmation that it’s unlikely for Epic Universe to open before April 25, 2025.

TEA 2023 Report:

Doing the numbers:

Surveys

Listener Questions

From Chloe Miller:

If you both had to ride a Disney ride for 24 hours in order to win $1 million, which ride are you picking?

Len: And the corollary question: What ride wouldn’t we ride for 24 hours for $1 million?

I mean, Guardians would kill me in 24 hours. Mission: Space. Probably TRON and Space Mountain. So those are out.

I could definitely ride the TTA for 24 hours, and I think people have tried that during one of the old 24-hour events.

From George Hart in (Gloster):

I’m a big Animal Kingdom fan, and whilst I’m sad that we’re losing Dinosaur, I’m also really excited for Tropical Americas. I think this is going to be as well themed and authentic as Africa and Asia, and a really good fit for the park.

My question is, do you think Disney will bring a new animal trail to the land in addition to the two rides? The trails in Africa and Asia are excellent and there’s so much potential for a Tropical Americas equivalent featuring animals from the region, perhaps set amongst some atmospheric Mayan ruins that have been reclaimed by nature. I get that animals are expensive and don’t directly generate revenue, but the trails are such a big part of what makes this park unique and special.

Len: Not for nothing, but you could sell a ton of Emperor’s New Groove merch next to those llama trails.

Our friend Shane, who’s a former member of the Disney culinary team, wrote in after we asked last week why “fried bacon dust” wasn’t a real thing, by pointing out that Amazon sells “fried pork rind panko”, with 5,788 reviews, presumably some of which probably don’t come from the cardiology wing of Cedar Sinai.

Jim, all this food label is missing is a screaming bald eagle on the front.

Research/Patents (use query "disney enterprises".as AND "theme park".ab)

“Be Our Guest” feature piece

Kind of ironic that we’re now talking about all of the changes coming to Florida’s Frontierland in the near future. Because – 15 years ago – we were doing the very same thing. Only – back in September of 2009 – we were talking about the other side of WDW’s Magic Kingdom.

On September 12, 2009 (This was at the very first D23 Expo, by the way) then-Disney Parks and Resorts president Jay Rasulo announced the Company’s plans to more-than-double-in-size Walt Disney World's Fantasyland. Previously this part of the Park had been just 10 acres. When work was completed in May of 2014 (nearly five years after this project was first announced), the Magic Kingdom’s newly expanded Fantasyland would now be 21 acres in size.

Lot in common with the just-announced Tom Sawyer Island plan. Took a body of water that had been around at WDW since 1971 (i.e., the “20,000 Leagues” lagoon) and filled that in. Creating all sorts of space for brand-new rides, shows & attractions between … Well, the Pinocchio Village Haus Restaurant, the Barnstormer coaster & The Mad Tea Party spinner.

Side note: A lot of talk lately about how the coming reimagining of Tom Sawyer Island is coming as a direct result of Epic Universe opening in 2025. Worth noting here that – if we’re being honest here – that we owe the Magic Kingdom’s New Fantasyland to Universal as well.

You have to remember that the Universal Orlando Resort had announced its plans to build the very first Wizarding World of Harry Potter back in May of 2007. This $170 million project – which was to transform the Merlinwood section of the Lost Continent area in Universal’s Islands of Adventure into Hogsmeade & a chunk of the Forbidden Forest – was supposed to be 20 acres in size.

You gotta admire the ego of Disney World execs. Universal announces a 20-acre expansion of Islands of Adventure. Which is why Disney then has to announce a 21-acre expansion of the Magic Kingdom.

We’re going to focus on just one part of this plan today. Northwestern part of the New Fantasyland project. Built right up against the Magic Kingdom’s perimeter road (Where the Cast Members are dropped off by bus from this theme park’s Cast Member parking and can then enter the Magic Kingdom’s Utilidor system), the “Be Our Guest” restaurant.

“Be Our Guest” originally started off life as a project to fill a need. And that was that the Magic Kingdom seriously needed more character dining. Ridiculous lines to be into the Crystal Palace at the edge of the Hub (with its Winnie-the-Pooh themed character meal) and we obviously don’t need to talk about how hard it was (and still is to) get inside the Cinderella’s Royal Table (with its Cinderella-themed character meal).

But at the same time, the folks at the Magic Kingdom were anxious to introduce something which had proven to be a huge money maker over in Epcot. And that was the sale of alcohol.

Brings us to design of “Be Our Guest.” Three separate dining areas: The Ballroom, the West Wing and the Rose Gallery.  The Ballroom & the West Wing Guests knew from having seen Disney’s hand-drawn animated feature (which won several Oscars when it was first released to theaters back in November of 1991. Disney’s “Beauty & the Beast” was even nominated for that year’s Academy Award for Best Picture).

“Be Our Guest” restaurant got a third dining area (a part of the Beast’s castle people had never seen before): The Rose Gallery. Giant music box at the center of the room featuring a 7-foot-tall Beast dancing with Belle.

Rose Gallery crucial. Original plan was that “Be Our Guest” would be counter service during the day and then transform into table service at night.

That transformation significantly lowered this Fantasyland eatery’s capacity. “Be Our Guest” went from being able to seat 546 for lunch to 340 for dinner.

Lunchtime experience: Enter through the Armory. Got to the Parlor. Order lunch using touch screens. Pay at register (where you’d then be handed a magic rose puck). Find seating in the Ballroom, West Wing or Rose Gallery. Cast Member would bring your food to you.

Side note: The magic rose puck was considered very cutting edge back when “Be Our Guest” first opened to the public back in November of 2012.

Why such a big reduction with “Be Our Guest” ‘s overall capacity from lunch to dinner? During table service, the Rose Gallery was initially closed off to the public / transformed into a prep space for the restaurant staff.

Opened with Phase One of New Fantasyland. Immediately had some issues. Disney learned the hard way that – once they began serving alcohol at this restaurant – turning tables at “Be Our Guest” was tricky. People would linger over dinner.

At a typical Magic Kingdom table service restaurant, Guests are in & out in 70 minutes. They’ve paid a lot of money to enter this theme park and are anxious to get their money’s worth. Eat and then head out to experience more rides, shows & attractions.

At “Be Our Guest,” the typical meal time stretched out to 90 minutes (especially when alcohol was being served at dinner). To make matters worse, parents would often cut their kids loose. Let them go off and ride something at the Magic Kingdom while Mom & Dad had another glass and sampled the grey stuff.

Remember when the grey stuff was only offered to a handful of Guests? It was something that was offered at the servers’ discretion.

This lingering-over-dinner thing really became an issue in the first six months of operation for “Be Our Guests.” Restaurant’s queue was outside in the direct sun. Guests were getting fried as they waited for seats inside the place to open. Park used to hand out umbrellas to create artificial shade.

Eventually accepted that people were going to linger over dinner at “Be Our Guest.” Reluctantly scaled back the number of dinner-time reservations that could be accepted for this Fantasyland restaurant.

Quick walk-thru the timeline of project:

March 2010 … Construction began on New Fantasyand

2011 – Imagineers miscalculate. Signature chandelier for restaurant (One hanging down from ceiling of the Ballroom is so large (i.e., more than 12 feet tall and 11 feet wide. It also boasts more than 84 candles and more than 100 jewels that hang down) that it won’t fit through a single door at the Beast’s Castle. Has to be disassembled before it can then be brought in the building.

August 20, 2012 – Reservation line for “Be Our Guest” thrown open (Three months before Phase One of New Fantasyland first opens)

September 2012 – Resort confirms that “Be Our Guest” will be first Magic Kingdom eatery to offer alcohol. Things really start to get crazy now.

November 19, 2012 – Soft opening of “be Our Guest”

December 6, 2012 – Official opening of Phase One of New Fantasyland

May 2013 – Magic Kingdom begins to reduce number of dinnertime reservations it will accept for “Be Our Guest” due to lingering over dinner.

March 2015 – To recover this lost revenue, “Be Our Guest” begins testing offering breakfast

August 2015 – Breakfast now an official option for “Be Our Guest.” Does cause cascade issue. People lingering over breakfast make setting up for lunch tough.

February 2018 – In an effort to speed up table service portion of operations, “Be Our Guest” moves to a prix fix menu for dinner.

October of 2018 – To add to restaurant’s bottom line, alcohol now becomes available at breakfast & lunch as well at “Be Our Guest”

June 2020 – WDW decides breakfast at “Be Our Guest” more trouble than it’s worth. Ends breakfast service.

July of that same year (2020) – “Be Our Guest” switches to table service for lunch.

Len recently got to talk with a “Be Our Guest” vet about how that New Fantasyland restaurant operates today. How many meals they serve daily. What it’s like behind-the-scenes there.

Side note: The magic rose puck was considered very cutting edge back when “Be Our Guest” first opened to the public back in November of 2012.

Capacity is over 3,500 meals per day, making it by a wide margin the busiest sit-down restaurant in Walt Disney World.

• To put that in perspective, a typical Manhattan restaurant will do 125-150. A really busy restaurant will do 250, but that’s an insane pace.
• Boathouse at Disney Springs averages 2,700 per night, but BOG is 30% more than that, at least.
• It’s more like a cruise ship kitchen than a restaurant
• They do an amazing amount of work behind the scenes. A lot of stuff, like the soups, are from scratch.

• It’s almost certainly the highest-grossing restaurant in Walt Disney World