Kiwi Farms
The web's biggest stalker community
CW: child sexual abuse, harassment, suicide
An ancient LiveJournal comment
Kiwi Farms only cares about destruction
"The web's biggest stalker community" isn't my wording; it's from an NYMag article which appears high up in KF's own Google results.
Hi. I'm Eevee. My long-time partner is glip, aka glitchedpuppet. They run a webcomic, Floraverse. They recently parted ways with their husband, Marl. (In this document, "we" refers to only myself and glip. Marl can eat a dick.)
A lot of people are mad at us for a lot of reasons. A lot of those reasons are utter bullshit and trace back to Kiwi Farms.
Brief history lesson: Kiwi Farms grew out of CWCki, a wiki dedicated to chronicling every available detail about an autistic trans woman and the harassment she endured, for the entertainment of its editors. I guess they got bored with only one person and evolved into a whole forum so they could harass any number of targets — referred to as "lolcows", for the way laughs can be extracted from them.
They're pretty open about their motives.
And yet people trust them and the stories they weave, because they always make sure to have a single grain of truth somewhere. Produce a screenshot of one sentence, and lo and behold! An entire paragraph of speculation based on it now looks true. And so it gets repeated, and new stories are based on it, and it becomes further embellished as it's passed around, and suddenly I'm hearing people falsely claim that my partner has manipulated me into being trans, or "groomed" someone 7 years their elder, or faked a divorce, or sued people into silence, or raped a child. What child, I immediately wonder? They can't point to anyone, but don't worry about it. What's important is that they think that's what they overheard someone read on a forum, and that's enough for them to help try to ruin someone's life over it.
Kiwi Farms is not interested in the truth, in justice, in protecting victims, or in anything else remotely constructive. They want to inflict as much damage as possible by any means at their disposal. That's all. They will cross nearly any line and hurt anyone, if it's convenient (or entertaining) to them in the moment. They have driven at least one person to suicide (read that dang NYMag article) with their constant, unabating, years-long harassment and stalking.
If you're spreading something sourced to them, they are using you to inflict more damage. And you aren't just complicit, but actively helping them.
This document is my request to you: please knock it off.
This document is not to convince you that we're perfect, because we certainly are not. We've gotten into pointless arguments, made poor judgements, sometimes felt backed into a corner. I in particular was an abrasive dick online as a teenager. We've both grown up a lot and are constantly trying to do our best, but alas, the past is immutable. If you want to hate us for those things, that's entirely fair.
What I will not accept is the spreading of lies. We have never caused anyone serious harm and it is appalling to accuse us of that without some really fucking solid evidence.
"Proving" that something didn't happen or that we didn't have a particular thought is a fool's errand. I've tried before, to little avail. They've invented dozens and dozens of stories, and if one fails, they simply switch to another. (Then they continue to tell the "failed" story to other people anyway.)
Instead, here's a glimpse at their tactics, at the way they've taken fairly mundane events and blown them utterly out of proportion.
The thing to keep in mind about Kiwi Farms is that there is no incentive whatsoever to tell the truth. Everyone uses a pseudonymous throwaway that doesn't appear anywhere else online — in fact, they're instructed to do so by the rules at the top of every page. Another of those rules is "no white-knighting", and in my experience, "white-knighting" is generally interpreted as "anything short of pure loathing". I'm guessing that if anyone so much as questioned a juicy rumor, they'd simply be threadbanned for not toeing the party line.
The environment is thus: no reputation because everyone's anonymous; nothing to gain from questioning any of it; a risk of punishment for saying anything that could be interpreted as positive towards the target.
I cannot imagine a more perfect recipe for generating gossip. It's no surprise that they never bother retracting anything that turns out to be false, either. Chances are they'd be punished even for admitting the most obvious mistake.
This is my favorite story, and by "favorite" I mean the one that makes me the most mad.
In 2013, I had to put my first cat down. I'd spent the previous month bleeding cash trying to help him and ultimately watching him waste away to nothing from an incurable illness. He was only a year and eight months old. It was heartbreaking to watch him die in slow motion. I still cry about it sometimes.
Kiwi Farms folks got ahold of this, misunderstood some details from posts I'd made at the time and from Wikipedia, and managed to spin two different stories about how Styx's death had been my fault.
It was an incredibly cruel and pointless thing to lie about.
The Floraverse Discord had a couple adults-only channels, which people were invited to only after they'd hung around for a while and had given us good reason to believe they were of age.
In one such channel, there was a conversation by the (mostly queer) populous about how a lot of us learned we were gay, bi, trans, and so on via sneaking peeks at porn as teenagers. It wasn't the ideal source, but 10+ years ago, it was the only way many of us even knew that there were options other than cishet. We had a nice conversation reflecting on our personal histories.
glip had similar experiences of their own. They also know that teens are likely to sneak peeks at their own adult work, no matter how diligent they are or how many warnings they plaster all over it, but they hope that it at least gives some of them a chance for more serious self-reflection. (Neither of us want minors around us in adult spaces — like I said, the adult-only channels were subject to modest vetting.)
And so they said, half tongue in cheek:
my legacy will be 13 year olds secretly reading forbiddenflora and realizing they're gay and/or trans
Someone from Kiwi Farms had snuck into the channel and took a screenshot of only this line, completely detached from the rest of the conversation. To this day, KF folks make reference to this quote as glip "wishing" that 13-year-olds would read their porn. That sentiment does not exist in what glip said. Kiwi Farms inserted it of their own accord, and continues to do so, despite several attempts on our part to clarify.
They do not care if they are wrong. They'll either ignore us and continue to parrot the same lie, or if it's too overt, they'll just hop to something else.
We briefly met spaggledagger (aka Lain) in early 2014. She joined both of Flora's IRC channels: the general-audience one and the adult one. She talked about drinking, drawing and looking at porn, and "letting" her boyfriend bareback her. Okay, whatever.
After a few weeks, she invited a friend to the general channel, the two of them were kind of annoying, and they left in a huff after several people complained. She later ranted on Twitter that we were ageist and only hated her because she was 13 — a fact that we were just then learning for the first time!
A moderator for another small community caught wind of this and sent glip an email with some highly alarming tales about spaggledagger, including that she tried to use her age to get older men in trouble. We were a little unnerved to say the least, but spaggledagger had left and not returned, so it seemed to be over.
Imagine our surprise when in August 2015, she posted a callout claiming that Marl had talked to her privately about wanting to have sex with her. She said he was her first exposure to sexual topics, which is an obvious lie given everything she'd said in our own adult channel. She quoted something he'd said to her, but I found that he'd said it in the channel, to someone else. She said she'd gone to the police, but the response she relayed was technobabble.
On the one hand, it is important to listen to victims. On the other hand: we'd been warned beforehand that she might do something like this; she told at least one provable deliberate lie that served no purpose except to make Marl sound guiltier, and has since told other lies elsewhere; I have channel logs while she has nothing; and we never heard a peep from any cops.
Even in the very unlikely event that what she said is true, it would be entirely on Marl's head. But Kiwi Farms continues to cite her as one of "our" "victims" — and she joyfully contributes to their thread about glip.
Sometime in 2012, I read an article written by the founder of Sweden's Pirate Party which asserted that child porn shouldn't be illegal for a variety of philosophical and practical reasons. Making it outright legal seemed rather extreme, but some of what he said was compelling. I made the poor choice of turning to Twitter to think out loud about this conflict.
Alas, I'm not always careful with my words when I most need to be, and I sometimes omit half of my train of thought because I (erroneously) think it's self-evident. I didn't think it was necessary to explicitly say that child sexual assault is bad, for example, because that seemed painfully obvious, so a couple people assumed I didn't actually think that.
I also put my foot in my mouth by talking about this at all, when most people would simply say "well child porn is bad so this article must be wrong". I'm not most people, and I like to think things through. But hey, since I'm choking on my own toes anyway, I might as well explain myself. Here is, more explicitly, some of what was going through my head:
I hope I've made the point that I was thinking about some actual philosophical problems, however clumsily. If I'd agreed with the article entirely, I wouldn't have needed to say anything else at all — I only talked about it because it presented a puzzle. Nevertheless, a montage of the tweets is still (again, to this day) passed around as evidence that I'm… well, as a recent KF post put it:
nonchalant about [her] support of pedophilia and child pornography.
This is completely false, and I've said as much and apologized for my poor handling of the original tweets numerous times, but KF sticks to this lie. They know I've clarified, they know I don't support those things, and they choose to ignore it.
I only wanted to think about a complex problem, and six years later I'm still being punished for it under false pretenses. Meanwhile, I've never seen anyone accuse the author of the original blog post of being a pedophile. You'd think there'd be more of a fuss, if these ideas were truly so dangerous.
Someone apparently dug through comments I'd made on Livejournal fourteen years ago — I don't even know how — and discovered one in particular.
A very old friend of mine had posted the story of his sexual abuse as a child. He always told it in a bittersweet way, like a cherished memory of something he missed. I interpret that now as a coping mechanism, but as a fairly naïve 17-year-old, I took it literally. As a fairly naïve 17-year-old who was also desperately starved for affection, I said what I felt: that I was jealous of the story. Because I was: I was jealous of the feelings he expressed with it, not realizing those feelings were almost certainly artificial.
Naturally, this was paraded around as further evidence that I'm a pedophile. Which, frankly, doesn't even make sense to me; why would a pedophile sympathize with a victim?
Even more absurd, I'm still on good terms with this person. As far as I'm aware, no one has ever approached them to ask what they thought of my comment. So someone passed around a complete stranger's story of abuse without asking their permission or asking for their insight on what I'd said.
Surely it would be obvious to talk to the person in question, right? They'd have a much better idea of what I was like at the time, since we knew each other then. The only reason not to is that they might ruin the rumor. If they vouch for me, say my comment was innocent, then Kiwi Farms has lost one round of ammunition. So they draw their own conclusions and avoid looking too deeply.
In April 2015, glip ran a Kickstarter to print a book of the first chunk of Floraverse. In June 2016, they ran a second Kickstarter to produce plush dolls for several of the major characters. Both Kickstarters succeeded, and both had numerous tiers of rewards, including cameos in the comic itself.
In April 2017, sugarfreefox — a Kickstarter backer — asked about the status of the cameos. The story hadn't yet gotten to the point where cameos would fit, but their cameo appeared in August, and they were quite happy with it. They even used it as their Discord avatar.
A Tumblr blog dedicated to summarizing Kiwi Farms's wild conclusions described these events as follows.
Glip held a kickstarter for Seeds, Book one in 2015 and 200$ & 500$ tiers gets a your oc cameo in book two. No sign of book two
This baffled us at the time, because by the time we saw it, all the 2015 cameos had long since been fulfilled. The second book hadn't been printed, but the cameos were in the comic. It only made sense when I stumbled upon this anon ask elsewhere:
> Check their twitter. It was posted a few hours ago that they claimed they fulfilled the cameos.
They said they fulfilled the cameos almost 2 years ago. So why was someone asking about their cameo in the discord? If anyone has any info on this feel free. If it's true then I'll gladly retract that statement.
They had mixed up the Kickstarters and decided that glip was running some kind of a scam. And since they had a Discord screenshot, they knew it was sugarfreefox and could have asked at any time — since sugarfreefox uses that name on half a dozen platforms — but didn't. Zero following up or fact checking; just dump what they overheard into a post and call it a day.
Incidentally, I corrected them in September 2017. The statement about the cameos is still up today.
But it gets better. Apparently sugarfreefox got anxious about their cameo and went to Google, where they found accusations that glip had scammed people, and ultimately found Kiwi Farms. In their words:
anyways, i was wondering if anyone else felt cheated like i did; i found the farms, and i read a lot about you. a lot i wish i never found out, which ruined my impression of floraverse and i stopped enjoying it.
They joined up and started contributing to the thread as "Jupiter Dune", where they would post Patreon-only art and leak chat logs and generally rag on glip for bizarre reasons, such as being "fucking disgusting" for taking a bath while on their period? All the while they continued to participate positively in the Discord, expressing excitement about upcoming pages and adoration for particular characters.
They continued even after their cameo was added to the comic. If anything, that made it worse. At one point, glip designed a character (V3nom) collaboratively with a friend and said they planned to put the character in the comic later. sugarfreefox then posted:
Who called it on V3nom's insert into the comic? Sure I pay a couple hundred bucks for my OC to cameo but this guy gets a whole comic. Yeah I'm bitter.
Notably, they also adopted Kiwi Farms's habit of misgendering glip as "she", even though sugarfreefox is themselves nonbinary. In fact, they posted this:
Beget the obnoxious gender/sexuality utopia and focus on the creepy, PK, you'll find it works way better for what you're going for.
A nonbinary person is scoffing about an "obnoxious gender utopia". When glip confronted them, they explained themselves:
as for my persona on kf, you know how the site is. you know their views on nonbinary genders.
This is ultimately why I brought sugarfreefox up. Once they joined Kiwi Farms, the lies started flowing. They lied to us; they lied to Kiwi Farms; they lied to themselves. They maintained a cruel persona and betrayed even intimate parts of themselves, all just to trash on someone whose work they loved and who had done nothing to hurt them.
This is what Kiwi Farms does to people.
Boy. I could say a lot about Marl. But he's not with us any more, and this isn't really about him, so I'll try to keep this (relatively) short.
Some six years ago, Marl was tasked with pressing buttons (the kind with art on the front and a pin on the back) for glip to sell at conventions. This was arduous, tedious work, so at one point he hired someone local to help him out. I never knew anything about them besides that they were in my living room to press buttons once, so to me they are still "the button-presser".
In April of this year, logs surfaced of Marl and the button-presser (who had been 16 or 17 at the time). In them, Marl appeared to be talking casually about some wild sexual topics with them. We confronted Marl, but he had no explanation, and no logs of his own either. He did offer an apology for anything he'd done to make the button-presser uncomfortable.
So glip and I had a look at the logs ourselves — as we'd had to do with spaggledagger — and noticed a few strange things. The logs showed Marl claiming to have sold videos of people having sex with our dog or something (?!), but we all worked from home and we'd never noticed him disappearing with our dog for hours. He didn't even own a real video camera, and there had never been any sign that he'd earned money outside of sharing glip's commission income. The logs also showed Marl claiming that glip knew about it… but! In most of the logs, he referred to glip by their real name, "mel" (always in lowercase). In the passages where he claimed glip knew about something damning, he referred to them as their old nickname "PK" (in caps), a moniker which Kiwi Farms still uses to this day.
This smelled mighty fishy, but only in circumstantial ways. And parts of the logs were real, since they contained jokes that Marl told or details of our lives that were correct.
Shortly thereafter, we learned that the logs had been posted by spaggledagger, not by the button-presser. It seemed very plausible that spaggledagger had modified the logs… but we still couldn't prove it and still had no way to even know what parts were real.
Meanwhile, with an awful lot of people calling for our heads and Kiwi Farms having long since doxxed us, our house didn't feel safe any more. So I tweeted what little I knew — that the logs appeared edited but I couldn't prove it — and we left. (Kiwi Farms discovered we'd put our house on the market within days — several weeks before we told anyone that we'd left.)
After a couple months in exile with just the two of us, glip started to reconsider their relationship with Marl and realized they didn't really trust him. Around the same time, we learned that Marl had also been sexually pushy with several of glip's friends. Weeks of long difficult conversations built up a clearer picture: Marl had a tendency to ignore other people's boundaries, had been increasingly withdrawn and neglectful, and had punished glip emotionally on numerous occasions for expressing their feelings, and much much worse — all while glip had been trying their best to support and help him for 10 years. He had been an emotional leech for a long time, and glip announced they'd be getting a divorce in July.
Marl ended up writing a confession, in which he said that he would lie about sexual escapades to sound more impressive. That does explain why his story about filming people didn't make any sense, but all I can do is speculate. I have no way to know for sure what was real, what was made up by Marl, and what was edited by spaggledagger (if anything).
In the end, most of Marl's wrongdoing was directed towards glip, his spouse, which is how these things tend to go; the rest largely impacted glip's friends. The button-presser is, as far as either of us can tell, a weird outlier. Last I heard, they disappeared from the thread, and I still have no idea who they are.
For what it's worth, I've seen nothing to suggest that Marl ever specifically pursued minors. The pattern is that he tried to talk about sex with everyone he talked to, and one of those people happened to be underage. Like I said, he didn't respect boundaries; his own confession strongly suggests that he considered it okay because the person was above the age of consent, and he saw the age difference as a boundary (that he could ignore). But on the other hand, what people think of him is his own damn problem now, so, whatever.
Meanwhile, we have been left to deal with his mess. The entire time, Kiwi Farms has been trying to pin his actions on glip, based solely on what he supposedly said in his logs, which he says he lied in, and which were posted by someone else we've caught lying about him. Despite that we've both separated from him. Why aren't they going after Marl instead, the one actually implicated? Because Marl isn't a visible target, so it's not fun.
Honestly, this has grown into such a tangle that I can't even tell what we're accused of any more. Everyone seems to have heard a different story.
Five months later, I still have people demanding I give them logs, even though I wasn't part of the conversation and I've never even implied that I had any. I continue to see people saying that Marl confirmed it with his apology, or that glip and I have claimed it's all completely fake — neither of which are true. Crucial details are lost in this huge game of telephone.
We left our house in April for a mix of complicated reasons; ultimately, we knew KF had our address, and we didn't feel safe there any more. We moved temporarily into Marl's parents' basement, which was set up like most of a separate house and was largely unused.
In late July, glip finally made and announced their decision to divorce Marl. We already had permanent housing arrangements but were waiting for the move-in date, so we simply decided that Marl would stay with his parents. In the meantime, we segregated our living space and saw virtually none of Marl for the rest of the time we were there. Even our sleep schedules didn't line up.
Over the summer, we'd also adopted a Lykoi kitten named Cheeseball, who is incredible and hilarious. In early August, glip tweeted a backlog of photos of him, taken over the previous couple months.
Kiwi Farms doxxed Marl's parents, looked up their address on a real estate website, and compared the listing photos against glip's. They found some tile pattern that matched up and concluded that we were living with Marl's parents (and thus with Marl) right then. They than ran off into fucking left field with this idea. From a Twitter thread that was @ed at a dozen of my followers:
wow. uh. hey @glitchedpuppet and @eevee. why are y'all living at marl's parents' house if y'all "cut all ties w/ him"? 🤔 [attached: screenshot of doxx]
The idea here is that since we didn't walk out the door the literal second we decided to cut ties, it must have been a lie. Why is that plausible? Because it offers another avenue for attacking glip.
here's a handy map to visualize how far they moved if this info is true. "we're the innocent ones! and marl is to blame for all of this!... so that's why we moved halfway across the country, to... go live with marl's parents...?" [attached: map of the US with a line from Vegas to where Marl's parents live]
even if that pic was before they got the apartment, it still shows that they were able to tolerate him enough to stay in the same house as him. he's a "big awful abuser who ruined everything" but they were still cool with staying with him at their house instead of getting a hotel
This is completely fucking ridiculous. We moved in with Marl's parents months before finally putting together what had actually happened. Most of the photos of Cheeseball were taken before glip even announced the divorce. We left as soon as we possibly could. Moving two people and five cats into a hotel room for more than a night is absurd. It's even more absurd that I have to explain this in detail, but so goes the threat: either I offer more personal details about my life, or they keep parading their lie. And they'll continue parading the lie anyway.
This is the Kiwi Farms MO. They find a scrap of evidence via unbelievably creepy means and simply make up a story around it. They ignore the order of events, ignore possible circumstances, ignore anything that might provide some other explanation, and champion what they came up with as gospel truth. Meanwhile, no one seems to have an issue with the fact that this completely irrelevant evidence was obtained by doxxing innocent people.
I pointed out a mere fragment of why this was ridiculous (the timing) on Twitter. Strangely, the person who made the above tweets has yet to issue a retraction. They never do; they spread lies and then disavow themselves of any responsibility.
Why, you ask? Because:
They occasionally claim to care about protecting the children or whatever, but that's a smokescreen. They don't care about justice, truth, or protecting anyone from anything.
And I can prove it. Hell, you can prove it. All you have to do is read their thread. Or just this very document up to this point — I've already described several occasions where they clearly chose what to believe solely because it would give them the most ammunition against glip and I. But here are a few more examples, for your convenience.
Our mutual friend, Opa, recently came out in strong support of us. He even wrote a whole document about it. It reveals something I wasn't previously aware of. In his words:
Here's the critical part: I can't post photos of my daughter to this Twitter anymore, because KiwiFarms has condoned archiving photos of her for whatever purposes. It feels disgusting at best, and possibly unsafe.
Kiwi Farms — who claim to be doing all of this to protect children — are archiving photos of Opa's four-year-old daughter. (Oh, and it gets better: they also claim glip "groomed" Opa, a term usually reserved for children. Opa is the better part of a decade older than glip.)
Why? I have no idea. Opa hasn't been accused of anything. His daughter sure as hell hasn't been accused of anything. But as one KFer explains:
Anything and everything needs to be archived. No exceptions. Get the fuck over it Opa.
That's a strangely non-specific reason to defend creeping on a four-year-old, especially to her father. Let's see what someone else has to say.
Glips follower count is still declining too.
Opa can decide to protect someone who would look the other way, or profit off of his daughter being molested all he wants. That's his decision as a parent. But Glips and Floraverse's reputation is destroyed. The IP is now associated with dog fucking and child porn, and so would anyone who decides to knowingly work with it. So, sure dude, you do you. Just please keep your kid away from the pedophile.
Consider: if these people really believed that glip was a pedophile and a danger to children, why would they say something like this? They suggest Opa's daughter could end up molested and they do not care — as long as they get the real thing they want, which is for glip to lose Twitter followers.
Absolutely fucking disgusting.
In early April, when Marl's logs were first released and glip and I were still trying to figure out what the fuck was even happening, Kiwi Farms started doxxing people around us.
One of the mods for the Flora Discord had acted as go-between with someone from KF who first let us know about the logs. For merely talking to that person and for no other reason, Kiwi Farms doxxed them within an hour.
At least a few other people we knew were doxxed and/or "researched" as well, simply for knowing us, or even having known us. In the most alarming instance, someone called glip's oldest friend up at work to ask about the situation, even though nothing suggested she had any idea what was going on either.
A lot of people fled, terrified. Sometimes they added their own little white lies to the pile as they distanced themselves from us. I'm sure that was all the point.
We know torture doesn't work: people will say anything to make the pain stop. Yet Kiwi Farms terrorizes their victims' entire friend circles and then treats whatever they extract as truth.
Since glip and I have been together ten years, and glip would be divorcing Marl, it seemed fairly natural that glip and I would get engaged. We announced it recently.
Kiwi Farms, who has spent all summer calling Marl a child predator and trying to link glip to it as well, had this to say:
Man, I'm honestly at a loss for words at the sheer stupidity both PK and Eevee are expressing in regards to these very very late accusations and also (hopefully fake???) engagements. I don't even know.
Why would the engagement hopefully be fake? I don't understand. The next post clarifies a little:
The engagement is probably real. I looked at Eevee's tweet regarding the engagement again and it's a ton of people replying "Congratulations" and it's kinda sick.
But it's just more throwing Marl under the bus.
We're throwing Marl under the bus by blaming him for the stuff that he did? This makes no sense at all. (I'm also baffled that someone was only convinced the engagement is real because people congratulated me for it?)
That person on Twitter from earlier spells it out more explicitly:
i don’t care about the scenario, getting re-engaged only ~2 months after formally announcing a divorce is just plain tasteless.
It's not like glip jumped into a new fucking relationship really quickly. We've been together for ten years. If it were legal, we would've married a long time ago. How is our engagement not the most obvious thing in the world?
But the more important point is that these people are all sympathizing with Marl — as a way to attack glip. That's the only thing they care about. Whatever Marl has done is instantly forgotten the moment he can play a useful role in a new story about why they hate glip.
And hey, further down the thread:
yeah, them talking about hosting the ceremony on some vr game really lines up with the context that we still haven't been able to find any official documents regarding the divorce (even if the vr part was a joke or something)
They're trying to find divorce documents! That's so incredibly fucking creepy. Why do these people feel entitled to this kind of information? What possible purpose does this serve?
To recap: Kiwi Farms said Marl is bad; glip agreed that Marl is bad and announced their intention to divorce him. Surely, that's the one thing that would most satisfy the mob. But the mob cannot be satisfied, for then it would have no reason to exist — so they have been desperately searching for evidence that glip is lying, that they are staying with their abusive husband for no reason, but claiming to get a divorce to save face on the internet. How is this not transparently fucked up?
This post has stuck with me since it was shown to me over a week ago:
The way it was run was absolutely sketch. The "1 week before you can ask for NSFW" is obviously meant to keep spies out. It's unspoken that if you were to ask after exactly 1 week, unless you did a whole lot of chatting in that time, no one's going to trust you.
…
The NSFW gating was not about appropriate age, it was about seeing who they could trust not to blab or turn on them. It was about loyalty.
Here we have someone from a group of spies, acknowledging that their target is trying to keep spies out, and then making that sound nefarious. Of course we don't want people around us who're just looking for more ammunition!
And this is coming from a forum where people like sugarfreefox have to pretend to be someone completely different, for fear they'll be either banned or eaten alive. Where people have to use anonymous throwaway accounts, because they know what their fellow posters might do to them.
It makes no sense and it's completely lacking in self-awareness, but it sounds bad and that's good enough.
We have done nothing even remotely close to hurting, grooming, or preying on children. None of our behavior even makes sense in that light. Why would we still keep these tainted identities if we were trying to pursue children? Why would glip have shut down their very popular Pokémon-themed deviantArt project in order to work on their own universe with much heavier and more adult themes? Why would I be making a game for the goddamn Game Boy Color, a console abandoned in 2002?
And yet we get to hear stuff like this from well-respected folks:
If you are willing to go to bat for a predatory pedophile who we have known is up to this shit FOR YEARS who has insurmountable testimony from MULTIPLE survivors against them
This is so fantastical I can't even imagine where it came from. Who? Who are these multiple survivors with insurmountable testimony? Do you mean spaggledagger, the person we were warned ahead of time was a destructive liar? Do you mean the button-presser, a person we interacted with so little that we still don't even know their name? Because those are the only people I can even think to list, and both of them only accused Marl anyway, who we left for abusing glip!
More importantly: why did not a single person ask this question? This is trivially shown to be hot air! If there's bulletproof testimony against glip stretching back years, where the fuck is it?
The most unbelievable part is that all this Mastodon instance squabbling happened, and zero of the people involved actually asked us about any of it. I only even know about it third-hand via people who follow some of the admins involved.
So a bunch of people are arguing about what kind of people we are, based on the interpretations of anons we largely don't know who have a very clear agenda, and not one of them thought to actually reach out and talk. Not one.
I'm disgusted with Kiwi Farms, but the site is a disgust machine, so I'm not surprised. I'm far more disgusted with people who claim to be for justice, then repeat this kind of baseless drivel. "I know it's Kiwi Farms, but there's this screenshot—" Then no, you don't know how they operate and you should sit the fuck down.
I'm pretty tired of cowardice, so I'll say this very clearly. If you help spread Kiwi Farms's lies, you are enabling their tactics. You are actively supporting doxxing, lying, gross violations of privacy, aimless harassment at anyone even within the general radius of an "acceptable target", obsessively and self-righteously documenting an innocent man's toddler — and then claiming it's all done to protect children. And you are doing it to someone who's a victim of all the things you're claiming to want to stop.
They will see that this works, they will see they can get away with it, and they will do it again, to anyone they decide they don't like. Next time it could be someone you care about, and there may not be anyone left to help.