Archetypes
Archetypes are a great innovation to the Dungeons and Dragons game designed by Paizo, maybe as ground breaking feats is the the game. It successfully takes 11 core classes and turns it into 50 or more, allowing creation of a huge variety of character builds that were never possible before. As a group most Archetypes are a substandard selection compared to the strait Core class from an optimization standpoint. They are usually designed more for flavor and fluff than crunch. That said some selections can be stronger than others. In addition to these Archetypes there are also two racial archetypes that can be found in the Racial Feats and Featured Races section.
Animal Speaker(**)(UM): Think Pied Piper. Great flavor but some very weak abilities.
What you lose: fascinate(**), well-versed(**), inspire competence(***), suggestion(***), mass suggestion(***),
What you gain:
Animal Friend(*) and Nature’s Speaker(*): these are really the same ability. Dumping fascinate and well-versed doesn’t hurt too much, but the replacements are weak. If it was all animals, it might be better, but the severely limited application kills both of these.
Soothing Performance(*): Wild empathy is of limited usefulness for a Druid, dumping suggestion is less painful since you already lost fascinate, which you need to use suggestion anyway.
Attract Rats(****): This is actually a pretty nice ability. A rat swarm is a CR2 creature, the same as a summon nature’s ally III and summon monster III, and you get 1d3 of them. It also scales decently. It’s not clear from the description if you control the animals as a summon spell or if you have to make Handle Animal checks to control them OR if you use Perform checks.
Summon Nature’s Ally(***): Although not as strong as the monster spells (which are already on your spells list), nature’s ally isn’t terrible. I rate it green only because it adds 6 spells to your spells known for free.
Arcane Duelist(****)(APG): This is probably one of the strongest archetypes available. It exchanges many of the skill features of the class for some very strong combat skills. Take this if you want more of a martial oriented bard or if your group is light on fast BAB classes. For Ability Scores, you may consider putting Str/Dex as your highest stat to be more effective in combat. A 14 Cha should do just fine.
What you lose: bardic knowledge(****), countersong(**), suggestion(***), mass suggestion(***), versatile performance(****), well-versed(**), lore master(***), jack of all trades(**).
What you gain:
Arcane Strike(***): this is a nice feat that allows you to pump up your damage and scales with level. It doesn’t cost any resources other than a swift action, so you can use it almost every round. Losing the multiplicative effect of bardic knowledge hurts, but this is a very different type of bard.
Rallying Cry(***): Assuming you don’t roll very poorly your intimidate check will easily be better than your companion’s saves. Also it allows you to make a second save if you are already affected, so you can only bring this out when you need it.
Bladethirst(**): I personally like this ability, but it suffers from the fact that it is a performance. It only barely outpaces Inspire Courage, which affects the whole party. Can be situationally useful, say if you really need ghost touch.
Mass Bladethirst(****): this is also a great ability, shame you don’t get it will 18th level.
Bonus Feats(****): a great selection of fighter only feats plus combat casting (which you should take anyways).
Arcane Bond(***): positive? +1 spell per day of any level you want, you no longer need a free hand to cast spells, and you can enhance your weapon w/o having the item creation feat. Negative? if you are disarmed one way or the other you can’t cast anything! You better pray your DM doesn’t like to steal your things.
Arcane Armor(****): You now have higher AC than any spell caster in the game, and rival even the fighter. Remember the Magus doesn’t get shields and the Cleric doesn’t have heavy armor. This in exchange for a so-so ability in the first place.
Archaeologist(***)(UC): A true fusion of the Bard and Rogue Classes. You exchange all Bardic Performance and skill for several Rogue and rogue-like abilities. Really with Clever Explorer, I don’t know why you would play a straight rogue. Obviously, without bardic or versatile, you will skip all perform skills, which you can re-allocate elsewhere.
What you lose: bardic performance(** to ****), versatile performance(****), well-versed(**)
What you gain:
Archaeologist’s Luck(***): A nice bonus to just about any roll for one round. I would like it better if it scaled a bit faster and the number of rounds per day feels low. This counts as bardic performance for qualifying for feats and such. For some feats, this is useless b/c they interact specifically with the perform aspect. For others, the way they interact is ambiguous at best, so best ask your DM how he/she reads the feat before you take it. That said Extra Perform and Lingering Performance are must takes, significantly increasing the uses of this ability.
Clever Explorer(****): As good w/ traps as a rogue including magic traps. Taking 10 on DD is pretty nice, if it’s within range you should never accidently trip it.
Uncanny Dodge(***): nice to keep AC, would be better if you could get Improved version.
Trap Sense(***): just in case you do accidently trip the trap
Rogue Talents and Advanced Talents(***/****): Many rogue talents are ok, not good or great, but ok. Advanced talents are much better. Some suggestions: Canny Observer, Esoteric Scholar, Trap Spotter. I would suggest checking a Rogue guide for more specifics on Rogue and Advanced talents.
Evasion(***): I like not taking damage, and ref is a good save for you. Take Improved Evasion as one of you first Advanced talents.
Archivist(***)(APG): An Archivist seems like an odd fusion of abilities. This archetype really takes the bardic knowledge to it’s extreme. To better take advantage of your class features, you may consider moving Int up to the second or third ability score. Without versatile performance, just pick your favorite perform skill and stick with it.
What you lose: inspire courage(****), suggestion(***), mass suggestion(***), versatile performance(****), well-versed(**),
What you gain:
Naturalist(***): a pretty good trade off for inspire courage. You trade +1 to damage for AC and bonus v charm for saves v all the monster abilities. Obvious downside is that you have to succeed in a Knowledge check to use it. Ones used to ID baddies are: arcana, dungeoneering, local, nature, planes, religion.
Lamentable Belaborment(***): Your use of big words causes the monster to be dazed and confused! Great flavor and a useful ability. I like this better than suggestion b/c you don’t have to think of something to suggest.
Pedantic Lecture(****): You are so boring that you put the whole audience to sleep. Shame it’s not till 18th level!
Lore Master(*/****): If you go by RAW, this is a terrible ability. However, the original writer has said that it was intended to function as the original Lore Master ability, only increase the number of 20s per day. That said, it gets better. If you have a 12 Int or higher, your knowledge roll while taking 10 should be 14+level and a half. Since the DC to ID a monster is usually 15+CR, you should succeed in every check for Naturalist.
Magic Lore(***): bonus to spellcraft is bunk, but you are the only class to my knowledge that can disarm a magic trap other than a rogue and trapfinder ranger. Bonus to saves is ok.
Jack of All Trades(**): Same as before, you just get it 5 levels early. Even without versatile performance, your class skill list is already expansive.
Probable Path(**): Use on any roll? nice. Only once per day? meh.
Celebrity(*)(UM): This is really more of an NPC archetype. Without a very strong background and a player who is very focused on roleplaying, I would strongly suggest you avoid this. Really you can roleplay this archetype with a normal bard.
What you lose: inspire courage(****), lore master(***), dirge of doom(***),
What you gain:
Famous(*): you lose a great performance in exchange for a bonus to two social class skills with very limited geography. bleh!
Gather Crowd(**): it may have some limited usefulness, i.e. you need
to get everyone’s attention so that your party can slip in the back w/o notice. Just not that useful. Also it is unclear if you have to maintain your performance for 1d10 rounds while the crowd is forming or if it only takes one round.
Shining Star(***): this does make fascinate a much stronger ability. Really the only bright spot for the Celebrity. No pun intended.
Court Bard(***)(APG): This is more of a debuffing bard, applying penalties to your opponents as opposed to buffing your friends. Down side is that where your buffs always work, debuffs allow saves and many monster will be immune to the effects.
What you lose: inspire courage(****), inspire competence(***), dirge of doom(***), frightening tune(****), bardic knowledge(****), lore master(***), jack of all trades(**),
What you gain:
Satire(***): just about the mirror image of inspire courage. It doesn’t allow a save, which is really great. The penalty vs charm and fear will really increase your success rate with spells.
Mockery(*): only really helpful on opposed Cha checks on charmed creatures or if you’re fighting a bard.
Glorious Epic(***): Your rogue will love you for it.
Scandal(****): has a greater radius and higher save than song of discord and only hits enemies, but it is centered around you instead of 200ft away.
Heraldic Expertise(**): rerolls are always nice, but I would prefer to just keep bardic knowledge
Wide Audience(****): I love this ability. It almost makes taking this archetype worth it all by itself. By level 15 that’s a 50ft radius or 100ft cone!
Daredevil(**)(UC): the idea is a swashbuckler, but it isn’t pulled off very well.
What you lose: bardic knowledge(****), inspire courage(****), versatile performance(****), well-versed(**), lore master(***),
What you gain:
Agile(**): not a bad collection of skills, not sure that bluff fits the theme.
Derring-do(*): you can help your team ride or fly or acrobatics! the bonus to AC is nice, but they have to move first and doesn’t apply to you.
Canny Foe(***): you still provoke, so you need the “improved” feat, but it stacks with those feats too. I would suggest trip, disarm or steal if you have the Int for combat expertise first.
Dauntless(**): will is your good save already, but it doesn’t hurt
Scoundrel’s Fortune(***): I like rerolls, but limited times per day hurts the rating.
Demagogue(**)(UM): This is a more powerful version of Celebrity above. Still not great, but better.
What you lose: inspire courage(****), lore master(***), suggestion(***), mass suggestion(***),
What you gain:
Famous(*): still crappy, even if you switch diplomacy for bluff
Gather Crowd(**): slightly better if you take into account the two performances below
Incite Violence(***): this can be nice, get the mooks to attack the BBEG for you
Righteous Cause(**): very roleplay-ish, and your DM is going to hate you for making him roll all those will saves.
Detective(***)(APG): strong investigatory abilities, not ideal, but not weak either.
What you lose: inspire courage(****), inspire greatness(****), inspire heroics(***), bardic knowledge(****), well-versed(**), versatile performance(****),
What you gain:
Careful Teamwork(****): I’m a big fan of long term out of combat buffs. Boost to flat-footed AC is nice too.
True Confession(***): flavorful ability, and has strong uses too. Just noticed your fighter is dominated? New save!
Show Yourselves(***): invisible or undetectable enemies can be a real pain, this is a nice way around it.
Eye for Detail(****): I would rate this blue for Perception alone
Arcane Insight(***): I like disabling magic traps!! The bonuses are good too.
Arcane Investigation(***): I’m a fan of extra spells known. that said divination spells are weak
Dervish Dancer(****)(UC): the Dervish is a whirling dance of death, using enhanced speed to slice his enemies to ribbons. The first instinct is to pair this with the Dervish Dance feat, but if you look at the abilities nothing is based on Dex. You actually substitute Acrobatics with Perform. This would make a very affective Strength build.
What you lose: suggestion(***), mass suggestion(***), dirge of doom(***), frightening tune(****), bardic knowledge(****), versatile performance(****), lore master(***), soothing performance(****), deadly performance(***),
What you gain:
Weapon Proficiency(***): this is a nice trade off, scimitar is better than the rapier and kukri is better than whip
Battle Dance(***): So it’s bardic performance, but just for you, and you can activate it w/ a move action. Rain of Blows(****): Extra attacks are nice.
Razor’s Kiss(****): Free feats are always nice too
Leaf on the Wind(***): A great way to say alive
Fleet(****): the only one faster than you is the monk
Versatile Dance(**): not as nice as versatile performance, but you shouldn’t get AoO from movement anymore.
Dance of Fury(****): this is pretty great when paired with versatile dance.
Dirge Bard(***)(UM): A much darker version of the general bard. A really interesting mixture of necromancy with the bard idea.
What you lose: jack of all trades(**), well-versed(**), versatile performance(****), lore master(***),
What you gain:
Dance of the Dead(***): a really cool idea, problem is that you have to have the bones/bodies already.
Haunted Eyes(***): energy drain and death affects are some of the worst in the game.
Secrets of the Grave(****): extra spells are always nice, and some of the necromancy spells can be very powerful. Affecting undead with mind-affecting spells significantly increases your effectiveness.
Haunting Refrain(***): the demoralize ability is ok, but adding a penalty to fear saves is really nice.
Flame Dancer(***)(ACG): You gain a nice mixture of fire themed abilities.
What you lose: dirge of doom(***), countersong(**), inspire competence(***), suggestion(***),
What you gain:
Fire Dance (***): Ouch! Similar to countersong but use check for fire effects instead of sonic/language dependant. Might be used more often. The wording is a little unclear if you can use the Perform check on instantaneous effects (fireball). Not bad, on the low end of green
Song of Fiery Gaze(****): This is why you take this archetype. Cloud spells are some of the best control spells in the game and stay effective through many levels. Allowing your allies to see through all fog spells means your enemies are blinded but you are not. A GREAT ability.
Fire Break(***): Fire resist isn’t bad, can’t complain.
Fan the Flames(**): add some fire spells to spell list, but not till 8th level, when you’re unlikely to be casting burning hands and they’re all save and SR spells.
Geisha(*)(UM): This feels really weak. The abilities are fairly weak tea (please excuse the pun), lacking both real interesting flavor or strong mechanical underpinnings. I don’t even know many role-players who would take this.
What you lose: weapon and armor proficiencies(***/****), bardic knowledge(****),
What you gain:
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies(*): Ouch! You go from having the second best weapons and best AC of the arcane casters to being a really weak wizard.
Tea Ceremony(**): Ok so it lasts for 10 minutes (60 rounds) for only 4 rounds used. But how often do you have 10 minutes notice before a fight? At least you don’t loose your normal bardic performance. Although it is unclear if you lose this bonus if you start a different performance later.
Geisha Knowledge(**): I like the bonus to one of your perform skills, but it’s otherwise weak.
Scribe Scroll(**): free feats will never be turned down, but you’re a spontaneous caster. If you know a spell, you can cast it whenever you want. Useless for you.
Magician(***)(APG): Think of this as the opposite side of the coin to the Arcane Duelist, exchanging bardic abilities to boost your spell casting instead of martial combat.
What you lose: inspire courage(****), dirge of doom(***), frightening tune(****), bardic knowledge(****), countersong(**), well-versed(**), versatile performance(****), lore master(***), jack of all trades(**),
What you gain:
Dweomercraft(***): Not as good as inspire courage, but still pretty good.
Spell Suppression(***): this is nice, of course you need to pass spellcraft check and have it going long enough and a caster level check.
Metamagic Mastery(****): super nice, shame it hits so late
Magical Talent(****): bonus to spellcraft is nice, bonus to UMD, fantastic.
Improved Counterspell(**): not a bad feat, but as a 3/4ths caster you may not have a spell level high enough.
Extended Performance(*): this is ok, but maintaining a performance is a free action and you shouldn’t be running out of performance after level 4 or so.
Expanded Repertoire(***): I am a fan of extra spells known, especially when you can select from any spell list but you don’t have expanded spellcasting. Note: go to the summoner list first, they have more early entry spells than any other arcane spellcaster.
Arcane Bond(***): much better than the Arcane Duelist, since you don’t have to worry about being disarmed.
Wand Mastery(***): a nice ability, shame that any wand over level 2 isn’t really worth the cost.
Sandman(****)(APG): The other side of the Archeologist, the Sandman is both a magical thief and backstabber. As much as I hate it, you may need a 13 Int so you can take Improved Feint, since some of your best abilities depend on flat footed opponents, even more so than the rogue.
What you lose: inspire courage(****), suggestion(***), inspire greatness(****), inspire heroics(***), mass suggestion(***), bardic knowledge(****), versatile performance(****), inspire competence(***), lore master(***),
What you gain:
Stealspell(****): I really like this ability. It increases your abilities while simultaneously hitting the enemy spellcaster where it hurts.
Slumber Song(****): better than suggestion, since you don’t have to think up a reasonable suggestion, and you coup de grace a sleeping monster.
Dramatic Subtext(*): I don’t really know how this would be useful. I guess if you’re fighting a counter speller?
Greater Stealspell(****): I love this ability. Having trouble getting over a monsters SR? Just take it away. Oh and you know every spell the creature knows. Shame you have to touch them to do it.
Mass Slumber Song(****): even better!
Master of Deception(***): Good for what it is. I like being able to disarm magic traps.
Sneakspell(**): You will only get to use this if you go first or if there is some other effect that cause them to be flat-footed. Unfortunately Improved Feint only works for the feinter
Trapsense(***): no complaints here.
Sneak Attack(**): the progression is very slow, but if you’re going to attack I wouldn’t say no.
Savage Skald(***)(APG): This archetype has very interesting abilities that are full of flavor and fairly interesting from a mechanic’s standpoint. That being said, it is somewhat replaced by the Skald class from ACG.
What you lose: fascinate(**), suggestion(***), jack of all trades(**), soothing performance(****), mass suggestion(***),
What you gain:
Inspiring Blow(**): you won’t be confirming a lot of crits, and this isn’t that many hit points. +1 to hit isn’t terrible.
Incite Rage(***): pretty nice, great buff for your melee fighter or a good debuff for a spellcaster.
Song of the Fallen(***/****): free 50,000gp item that you can use every day. It’s unclear if you have to play for 10 rounds before they show up or if it costs a minimum of 10 rounds per use no matter how long you use it. Can be a lot of fun.
Berserkergang(****): Another great buff for your fighter type, your barbarian will really love you now.
Battle Song(****/**): Unclear if you can choose to exclude some allies or not? Most party members will appreciate it, but the Cleric and Wizard will hate it, since they can’t cast spells while raging. If you can exclude this jumps up to blue.
Sea Singer(**)(APG): Exactly what it sounds like. Very aquatic dependant.
What you lose: countersong(**), inspire competence(***), suggestion(***), mass suggestion(***), bardic knowledge(****), versatile performance(****), well-versed(**),
What you gain:
Sea Shanty(***): Assuming that you don’t have to be at sea, this is actually stronger than countersong since sickened is a common status caused by spells and effects in the game. Getting a new check is great too.
Still Water(*): Nice if you’re on a ship, but useless otherwise.
Whistle the Wind(****): Not just for moving the boat, Gust of Wind is a great spell to clear out all the “cloud” or “fog” spells, and inhaled poisons. This is really a nice ability.
Call the Storm(****): A free 4th, 5th, 7th and 9th level spell. As with the Skald above, it’s unclear if you have to play for 9 round before it happens or if it just means you must use 9 rounds, no matter how long you sing.
World Traveller(**): Weak. Only Kn(nature) can be used against monsters.
Familiar(**): familiar is nice, but not fantastic
Sea Legs(***): Again, assuming you don’t have to be on a boat to use it, you gain some pretty nice bonuses.
Song Healer(**)(UM): Not that great. No glaring problems, but it just feels weak.
What you lose: versatile performance(****), frightening tune(****),
What you gain:
Enhanced Healing(**): A nice way to get better mileage out of a wand or staff. It would be better if it wasn’t restricted to Cha mod per day.
Healing Performance(****): heal is a great spell, and you get it sooner than any class but cleric.
Sound Striker(**)(UM): You trade two decent abilities for two blasts, one that is weak, and one that is decent.
What you lose: inspire competence(***), suggestion(***)
What you gain:
Wordstrike(*): A pretty weak blast ability.
Weird Words(***): A recent FAQ has significantly changed this ability. 4d6 per word isn’t bad damage and sonic damage is a very uncommon resistance. Damage scales in jumps.
Street Performer(***)(APG): An interesting group of abilities. One that is really great, but the rest are really not better than what you give up.
What you lose: inspire courage(****), inspire competence(***), inspire greatness(****), inspire heroics(***), countersong(**), bardic knowledge(****), lore master(***),
What you gain:
Disappearing Act(**): You already have invisibility on your spell list, and every enemy gets a save.
Harmless Performer(***): This is nice, a way to both avoid damage and force a loss of an action. Since action economy is the biggest limiting agent for power in Pathfinder it can really hurt an enemy.
Madcap Prank(****): This is pretty nice, 1) it uses reflex, which is your least common save, 2) dazzled is ok, but the rest are pretty good 3) it forces a save every round
Slip through the Crowd(**): A little better, but with that many new saves it will succeed eventually
Gladhanding(*): Meh. How often do you use Perform checks to make money?
Streetwise(**): Not a terrible list of skills.
Quickchange(***): Disguise isn’t that great, but taking 20 on a Bluff check, even once per day, can really help out. Your DM will hate you.
Voice of the Wild(*)(ACG): You get to make a really natury bard. The abilities are interesting but not great and you give up a ton for only middling options.
What you lose: bardic knowledge(****), dirge of doom(***), countersong(**), inspire competence(***), inspire heroics(***), jack of all trades(**), versatile performance(****),
What you gain:
Wild Knowledge(*): You lose bardic knowledge for all knowledge except (nature).
Nature Magic(**): Not bad, select from the Ranger list, since many of their same spells are a lower level than on the Druid or other lists. Also there are several very good Druid only or early access spells to look out for.
Song of the Wild(**): Grant animal focus to a few allies. Animal Focus isn’t bad, but I’m not sure you would want this over inspire courage or competence.
Archetype Overlap
In Pathfinder you can take more than one archetype for a class, actually you can take several. The only restriction is that you can’t have two archetypes that replace or alter the same ability. For instance, the Arcane Duelist and the Geisha both replace Bardic Knowledge, so combining them is out. However the Geisha and the Archeologist have no overlap, they can be combined. Below is a quick rundown of each archetype and which ones they can be combined with. Just to clean it up a little, these archetypes cannot be combined with any other currently offered: Arcane Duelist, Court Bard, Dervish Dancer, Sandman. There are some triple combinations, but they are rare.
Animal Speaker: Celebrity, Geisha
Archeologist: Geisha
Archivist: Geisha
Celebrity: Animal Speaker, Geisha, Savage Skald, Sea Singer, Songhealer, Sound Striker,
Daredevil: Flame Dancer, Savage Skald, Sound Striker,
Demagogue: Geisha, Songhealer,
Detective: Flame Dancer, Savage Skald, Sound Striker, Prankster, Watersinger,
Dirge Bard: Flame Dancer, Geisha, Sound Striker
Flame Dancer: Daredevil, Detective, Geisha, Songhealer
Geisha: Animal Speaker, Archeologist, Archivist, Celebrity, Demagogue, Dirge Bard, Flame Dancer, Savage Skald, Songhealer, Sound Striker, Prankster, Watersinger.
Magician: Sound Striker
Savage Skald: Celebrity, Daredevil, Detective, Diva, Geisha, Songhealer, Street Performer
Sea Singer: Celebrity
Songhealer: Celebrity, Demagogue, Flame Dancer, Geisha, Savage Skald, Prankster,
Sound Striker: Celebrity, Daredevil, Detective, Dirge Bard, Geisha, Magician
Street Performer: Savage Skald,
Voice of the Wild: Prankster
Prankster*: Detective, Geisha, Songhealer, Voice of the Wild
Watersinger*: Geisha
*racial archetypes in race section found HERE